Batman Mafia

[Aldurin]

I think Moogle made a good call with that, since bringing the game to a halt or horribly altering it just to deal with a couple people that are making trouble isn't fair. And cheating is cheating. I'd probably enact a similar policy if such things happen in my games.

[Loyal]

Originally Posted by Geminex

Man, all you smart people should tell us less-smart people how you came to these genius conclusions.

I'm not going to say I "knew" anything, but if there's a list of people you want to just lynch on general principle, Nikose tops it.

Is it against the rules if I edit after the game ends?: Like, he was making long posts that were just lists and insults that provided no real information, he was intentionally making townies annoyed and thus less-able to play logically, and he justified it all with "I'm playing scummy so you won't know if I'm scum next game." If a dude is acting deliberately and flagrantly counter to town interests, he is not an ally of town, regardless of what his role states. Additionally, the way to play mafia is to act like town every game so that no one knows whether you're town or not, not the other way around. That's like, bam, this guy is either mafia or SK, right there.

Further metaphor: You're all Red, and there's a Red spy in your base, sappin' your sentry, and he's in chat saying, "I'm just sappin' our sentry so you won't know if I'm Blu next gamelol." What do we do to said spy?

It's slightly bothersome that Nikose pretty much plays the same way damn near every single game, and yet people are always hesistant to just nuke him D1 because he might be a Jester or something *(related: I am always astonished that everyone consistently believes there is a jester at all) and all I can think is "What kind of shitty GM would do that to his players?"

This idea, incidentally, of making decisions based on who a person is and what they're like and how it colors their actions in-game, rather than just the things they're saying or doing taken on their own merits, is why I don't play NPF Mafia games.

[Geminex]

Man, it's not like I said "Oh, that is scummy, but Nikose always acts scummy!". I mean, sure, he seemed pretty enthusiastic about it, but what did he do that actually was scum-ish? Sure, the lists didn't really provide any new info, but it's not like he tried to mislead town with them. At least it didn't seem that way at the time. And what he was doing was pretty blatantly useless, so the 'trying to seem useful' explanation seemed weird.

Loyal and Phil in particular are acting like he actually hurt town interests blatantly, and we ignored it because Nikose just does that. But, for my part, I don't think he hurt town interests at all. He got overexcited about some deductions, and while I would've been suspicious if, say, IHMN had done that, it seemed in-character with Nikose. I take personality into account to gague the limits of what's suspicious and what isn't, but I don't rely solely on it. That would be very dumb, and I don't think anyone here does that.

And I don't think the word 'jester' ever came up in this game.

Also as far as I remember, IHMN's only "exact explanation" consisted of one line saying he was trying to seem important. Just an aside. And he ended up voting for earl anyway.

[IHateMakingNames]

He did mislead the town and lead a lynch on me that everyone followed. The issue was he was trying to be useful but since everything he was posting was useless it's scummy. He's not providing information but he's filling the thread with crap that isn't helpful. You're trying to argue that he didn't seem scummy because of whatever reasons, but he was a scummy mafia and everyone is telling you they knew right away (Except those in the game who all followed what he said).

I stated several times that Nikose was mafia and I'd switch my vote to Nikose if people wanted him dead first.

[Geminex]

I don't think 'trying to be useful' is something we should lynch for. Not unless it somehow seems obvious that he is actually meaning to do harm. And, at that point, I didn't really see why you'd consider "elaboration on the nature of the game on the basis of batman minutiae" as "scummy". I still don't really. Sure, he just ended up writing a lot, but if you make it a policy that anyone who writes a lot but doesn't bring any new insights should get lynched, then you're discouraging activity, which, if nothing else, makes the game a lot less enjoyable.

Also, you did FOS Nikose, and you pointed out once that he'd be your second choice, after earl, but you really kinda failed at any explanation.

Also also, it really seems like Earl lead that lynch. Nikose was more tangentially involved.

And finally, it's not like I absolved Nikose of suspicion entirely. I investigated him during night 1 because I thought he might well be scum. My only point right now is that I don't think there were any obvious scumtells during day 1 that would have totally necessitated his lynch, which Phil in particular seemed to be implying. Saying otherwise kinda implies that the entire playerbase is too oblivious to see obvious clues, and that seems kind of mean.

Edit: To be honest, Nikose might've been my first choice as well, if you hadn't mandated a lynch on all millers.

[phil_]

Originally Posted by Geminex

And I don't think the word 'jester' ever came up in this game.

It totally did.

Originally Posted by Oron

Maybe IC's a Jester role? His posts also read differently.

Wait, crap, that's calling IC a jester. Why you gotta do me like that, Oron?

Anyway, you got me to go re-read the thread. I probably got the feeling that Nikose was acting counter-town because he repeatedly called RO stupid on day one. I mean, he ended up being the SK, but come on, ragging on Ocelot is super not-cool. Then day two happened, and Nikose mellowed out right proper, so you're totally right that, after day one, he stopped giving scum tells. The reason I saw him as acting super-scummy-all-day-long-you-can't-stop-this-scum is because, for me, that all happened while I was catching up from Moogle's post pages later booting him from the game. I was just looking for what he could have done for Moogle to knock him and Marius out, not at his far lowered aggression after day one. Like, there were still things there that read as tells now with hindsight, but nothing quite like "I'm acting like I'm in the mafia but that's just how I roll" from day one.

In short, yeah, if you're judging it in chronological order with the associated passing of time (you know, like you all were), Nikose wasn't obviously mafia. I made my statements based on my recollection of events, and further examination has shown that those statements don't hold to how things went down, only how they looked to me half-remembering a quickly skimmed day two. I was totally wrong.

For that, FoS: Me.

Also, I don't think enough praise has been lavished on BF for single-handedly sending most of Arkham back to their cells.

[Geminex]

Yeah, that was pretty nice. I know from experience how hard it can be as a lone mafiate against the world (hatland), but he pulled through beautifully. Definitely gonna check out his posts later on.

Though the inactivity really helped him. I dunno how well he would have stood up to actualy questioning.

[Nikose Tyris]

I had actually called RO on being the SK at start of game. That was me trying to provoke a response/hit from him at night for it to prove my suspicion.

I'm not actually sure of Moogle wants me posting in after game discussion or not; I've avoided it thus far out of respect of my punishment/banning from the game, and if he says to, I'll not post again after this one.

Edit: I'm also a huge batman fanboy; the posting of the lists was me literally excited to be seeing Moogle's plan and storyline, because holy shit he put a lot of work into it, and you can see it in the night posts especially. So happy about that.

Edit 2: Also, my Geminex defense of "Nah Nigma gets it wrong" was fucking painful to even try and say for the reason under Edit #1.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Yeah, it really looked like Moogle put some work into it, and I really enjoyed this game. I know this probably isn't the place for it, but I'm not currently holding bans that Moogle has placed on my game for now. (Admittedly, I'll be keeping a closer eye on offenders doing the best I can) I am just not of the opinion that a ban from mafia FOREVAS should be done from the first instance of it. (One because bigger games are funner, and two because I'm willing to think you guys were being idiots, not really because you were truly trying to undermine the game).

If this thread really isn't the place to put it, sorry about that Moogle, but I wanted to state that somewhere.

[Nikose Tyris]

We were just being idiots. It has come up once or twice in the past where I've been guilty of this and it was really, really obvious, and WAS in a game-breaking capacity [House of Cards] but the result was a funny ending, so everyone seemed to be cool with it.

I was holding off on signing up for your game, but if you'll have me in it, IC, I'd join.