NP, I have some rage to vent

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by NonCon

See Kuro's "Welcome to being a teenager. Don't worry, you grow out of it." post.

Yeah, but Brian's the only one who said something like that.

Also, I don't think I ever grew out of it. I just learned to deal, but hey.

I think the main thing was, and I told this to him myself earlier today, that the persona he's created on the forum isn't exactly impressing a lot of people, so, while he may have good points or whatever, people are far more likely to be dickish to him as a result, and his best bet is just to slowly work his way out of that first impression.

I totally agree that this is what is happening here, and that's most of my problem.

He's a teenager. He's expected to do stupid shit.

The average age of the forums, however, is a bit older than that. We should be expected to NOT do stupid immature shit, like dog piling someone just because we don't like him every time he says anything half way offensive.

I mean, you don't see me lambasting Nikose every post he makes, do you? It's called maturity.

Edit For Arch: I was using Hyperbole.

Apologies to you, Brian, and uh... Azisien? Oster I think was just arguing anarchy so him, too.

[synkr0nized]

Originally Posted by NonCon

I think the main thing was, and I told this to him myself earlier today, that the persona he's created on the forum isn't exactly impressing a lot of people, so, while he may have good points or whatever, people are far more likely to be dickish to him as a result, and his best bet is just to slowly work his way out of that first impression.

Really? His "best bet" is to accept that people are going to be assholes to him?

[BitVyper]

I don't know if blaming homophobia, specifically, on religion could really be considered dumb

It is dumb. Religion didn't spontaneously invent fear, it's just one of many things we use to give it shape and teach it to others - often for good reason, but then not always. If you want to blame religion for all that stuff, you're going to have to stretch that out to culture in general. Or you could just, y'know, blame people for being homophobic. OR, even better, you could do something more constructive than than trying to blame something, and maybe actually help people overcome their fears.

You could go after certain religious institutions for being big proponents of homophobia, but say you abolish X religion and religious institution; do you think all of the people involved in it will just up and change their core character, or will they just find another way to express it? The institutions and religions aren't the problem. They can't do anything. They're as alive as corporations.

Edit: Okay, I guess if your point isn't that it's debatable or that it could be right, then yeah, I can see considering it more of an immature worldview. But I don't think the "all" has anything to do with it.

However, I don't think we're allowed to discuss that here.

Eh, I don't think we're really debating points of theology (I say we even though this is the first post I've made in this thread) or anything. I wouldn't really call this arguing religion since the point isn't whether or not X religion got it right.

[Kim]

Originally Posted by synkr0nized

Really? His "best bet" is to accept that people are going to be assholes to him?

Unfortunately, I left my fairy dust and perfect world in my other pants pocket, so, realistically speaking, he's going to have to cope with the fact that people are going to treat him differently based on the majority of his posting career here than they would someone else with a different one.

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by BitVyper

You could go after certain religious institutions for being big proponents of homophobia, but say you abolish X religion and religious institution; do you think all of the people involved in it will just up and change their core character, or will they just find another way to express it? The institutions and religions aren't the problem. They can't do anything. They're as alive as corporations.

Because they can convince people a magical man lives in the sky and loves them and (blah blah blah religious discussion about how religion is silly), but it's totally inconceivable that when applied to children it could teach them how to hate people, right?

[BitVyper]

Originally Posted by Krylo

Because they can convince people a magical man lives in the sky and loves them and (blah blah blah religious discussion about how religion is silly), but it's totally inconceivable that when applied to children it couldn't teach them how to hate people, right?

magical man

If you use disrespectful terms, then this will become one of those internet religious debates.

Anyway, I'm not sure exactly how this applies to what I said. And I don't mean that in a snarky way, I'm just really not getting where your "because" is supposed to fit in, so I can't really respond to it.

[synkr0nized]

Originally Posted by NonCon

Unfortunately, I left my fairy dust and perfect world in my other pants pocket, so, realistically speaking, he's going to have to cope with the fact that people are going to treat him differently based on the majority of his posting career here than they would someone else with a different one.

You folks are at least moderately intelligent and sociable and perhaps even mature in some cases. I suppose I was assuming not to see advice that basically was, "Yo check it we're going to troll you for a little while. Ride it out."

I may be reading too much into your post, though. I mean I get the idea behind it, yeah, it happens.

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by BitVyper

'kay see, if you use disrespectful terms, then this will become one of those internet religious debates.

Anyway, I'm not sure exactly how this applies to what I said. And I don't mean that in a snarky way, I'm just really not getting where your "because" is supposed to fit in, so I can't really respond to it.

Basically

Me: I wouldn't call it stupid, necessarily, to blame religion for some of the homophobia, specifically.
You: It's stupid to say religion causes homophobia, 'cause people will be homophobic anyway, even when religions do promote it.
Me: Religion can convince people of lots of stupid things, what's stupid about thinking it might, especially in children, convince them to hate gay people?

So yeah, the disrespectful term was kinda necessary to make my point.

This is also why I'd rather not have this discussion here, because while it might be possible to make blanket statements like "Well there's gonna be homophobes anyway" it's very hard to argue back pointing out where religions do support homophobia and how such support can be absorbed into the psyches of people that go to religion for whatever reason--especially at young ages--without treading into dangerous waters.

It's not to say homophobia would vanish if we didn't have religion. THAT would be a stupid stance to take, however it isn't stupid to suggest that the teachings of some religions help to spread homophobia into future generations, and even into adults who are willing to believe anything if it gives them comfort--see cult victims.

[Archbio]

Or you could just, y'know, blame people for being homophobic. OR, even better, you could do something more constructive than than trying to blame something, and maybe actually help people overcome their fears.

The suggestion that one can't do all three is mind-boggling.

[Kim]

Originally Posted by synkr0nized

You folks are at least moderately intelligent and sociable and perhaps even mature in some cases. I suppose I was assuming not to see advice that basically was, "Yo check it we're going to troll you for a little while. Ride it out."

Basically, regardless of whether you think this is fair or not, before the forum starts taking him more seriously and treating him more respectfully, he's going to have to earn it. Given many of his previous posts, he's going to have to earn it really hard.

I'm not going to lie to him and say it's any other way, even if it should be.