Girls aren't the only ones hurt by being objectified

[Kim]

I'm sorry radfems didn't believe you. That's fucked up and to be honest radfems are garbage.

Those who identify with that phrase tend to be second wave feminists, if I recall correctly and while phases are important to growth and development of groups and ideas, most second wave feminists today are fucking garbage. Overtly misogynist toward any women who embrace femininity, hateful towards trans people (in fact responsible for actively making it harder for us to get gender confirmation surgery), and they have a burning hatred for sex workers. Not all second wave feminists, but I generally write off anyone who identifies with the term radfem for this reason, as do many other feminists. I believe in the idea of radical feminism, it's just the term is predominantly controlled by shitheaded bigots.

Hell, when people like Cathy Brennan say rape applies exclusively to penis-in-vagina sex, they're hurting both men and women with that argument. Trivializing other forms of sexual abuse and erasing the existence of abuse both men and women experience.

Anyway, feminism's history and the fact that radfems haven't been scuttled off the nearest deck is why I don't actually require other folks to identify with the term feminism or the feminist movement.

I just don't like when people use their dislike of certain brands of feminism to ignore the fact that there's a lot of modern feminism is on-fucking-point. Discussions of rape culture, the importance of intersectional feminism rather than the kind that radfems practice, being sex positive.

As a victim of abuse as a child, I sympathize with what you went through, RMB.

I also sympathize with having shitty experiences with radfems, because Cathy Brennan is constantly trying to drive trans women to suicide or otherwise ruin our lives.

But that's not an excuse to defend patriarchy on account of not liking it when people criticize men for the shit that men benefit from and are primarily responsible for. I'm not even saying you mean it as an excuse, but you do this all the time, and from what I recall almost every time there's backlash for it you bring your childhood history into it, seemingly as a defense.

I'm not asking you to embrace modern feminism, but I would at least like it if you weren't so dedicated to constantly arguing with it.

[Red Mage Black]

I'm not even going to argue with this, because by all accounts of our history so far, you're right. I'm not even going to go into threads with these kinds of topics anymore because they bring up far too many bad memories for me. All I can do is apologize. A thousand times over if I must. I just don't have it in me.

I will mention though, Cathy Brennan isn't the only one you should worry about. Far more, like you mentioned and ones that have even become famous for their hatred, give a bad name to feminism.

[Osterbaum]

I didn't read anything in this thread as dogpiling on Aero or anyone else. From my perspective it seemed like everyone responding was being pretty level headed and non-confrontational, just trying to correct some assumptions and debate some terminology etc. At least at first.

Originally Posted by RMB

This has to do with the people up top, not on the bottom.

It has to do with a lot of people (all the people, really) on a lot of different levels and categories of opression. Maybe you would want to read more on intersectionality.

Also, another link on intersectionality I'm leaving here specifically for Kim (though obviously anyone is welcome to read it) because of her expressed interest in anarchism (which is what opposition to all hierarchies basically is).

Originally Posted by Kim

I'm sorry radfems didn't believe you. That's fucked up and to be honest radfems are garbage.

Fucking TERFS at least are garbage.