Child rearing.

[Lumenskir]

Now, I've been hesitant to throw out an anti-spanking study link because the last time I did that someone (krylo?) threw out a study that basically said that due to genes kids are pre-fucked from birth regardless of what parents do, but in searching for the link I stumbled on this page of nothing but anti-spanking studies. So yeah.

Also, this one section might be of particular interest to blues and krogo and others along those lines.

[Kim]

Originally Posted by bluestarultor

Hey, Non, buddy? Krogo's pretty much right. Maybe you disagree with the law, but until it gets changed, no, it's not child abuse in that jurisdiction and performed by those means.

Originally Posted by Definition of Child Abuse

Child abuse is the physical, sexual or emotional mistreatment of children.

I consider it physical mistreatment of children. He asked why I was arguing about it when I don't have and don't want kids. I said it was because I considered it child abuse. All that I have been doing is justifying my participation in the discussion after he questioned it.

I suggest you toss in your hat on that one, because the argument "but it should be because I say so" is a really weak one.

I'd disagree that that's the argument I'm using but for the sake of discussion...

That's more or less been your argument this whole time. Why, might I ask, is it a weak argument when I use it but not when you do?

[krogothwolf]

Originally Posted by NonCon

I didn't call anyone a child abuser at any point in this conversation. I said that I considered spankings to be a form of child abuse. If you are going to continue that line of thought and make it personal, that's your deal, not mine.

Also, are you seriously arguing that what is considered right by the law is right until it's changed? That's... I don't have words for that... Can I borrow a thesaurus? I mean, I could follow that to its natural conclusion, showing that by your logic you're saying tons of terrible things that are legal are right, but do I really need to?

By saying you consider spanking to be child abuse, it means you consider people who spank child abusers. You can't say you feel that way but then go "oh, but I didn't call anyone a child abuser, I just consider them that if they spank, but I didn't go out and call them that." It doesn't really work that way.

Until it is changed, it is right in the society you are living in. You may not like it, but till the law is change there is fuck all you can do about it. If the law says it's right you can't really go out of your way and start proclaiming everyone who does that wrong because it goes against your line of thinking. It doesn't work that way either. So yeah, it is right because how it goes, you can't stop someone from doing it because you feel it isn't right, that's your feeling that doesn't actually make it right either. A feeling or opinion doesn't make something right by itself you have to have things backing you up to make sure its right. Saying "well I have studies." Well guess what, those studies aren't going to help you because they don't make how the court system sees the law that's written out. That is how things work NonCon, whether it's the right thing or not, till things change in the legal system you have no leg to stand on in an argument of whats right and wrong if your stance isn't backed by the courts because that's what will judge someone in the end.

I don't really care if you have a personal thing against spanking. I don't really care if it affect you in the end and you went through a bad experience. I really don't. I do take offense that you feel any form of spanking as child abuse because you'd label my father as that, and my father is anything but a child abuser.

The fact is, I don't see a problem with it and quite frankly there is dick all you can do about it besides shout from the sidelines. If you tried to stop someone from doing something that's well within the law you would be the one in the wrong in the end. There is nothing you could say or do to change that, and unless it becomes against the law and I deem it necessary to have to spank my child, even though I hope in hell I don't, I will do that.

[Kim]

You're the one personalizing everything. I'd advise against doing that. It makes it rather difficult to see the discussion clearly, and makes you feel as though you personally are under attack, which is a bad direction to take this thread.

there is dick all you can do about it besides shout from the sidelines.

Who's shouting? You tried to tell me off for participating in a discussion. I explained why I was participating. You took it personally and got upset, despite the fact I had no intention of trying to upset you. Your argument has devolved into "The law says I'm right, so I am." I don't think that's a valid argument, and have stated why.

[Premmy]

Originally Posted by NonCon

I'd disagree that that's the argument I'm using but for the sake of discussion...

That's more or less been your argument this whole time. Why, might I ask, is it a weak argument when I use it but not when you do?

v

money and the old white men.

Sha-BAM!

[Yumil]

Just throwing this out here, basically anything you do as a parent could be considered some kind of abuse by someone.

[Fenris]

Word on the street is that this thread is a fucking mess.

I'll sift through it in a bit and hand out punishment accordingly but goddamn.

[Fenris]

My decision:

Jesus christ dudes take a chill pill.