Talking about Mass Effect 3 With Spoilers - Page 9

Krylo · 05-13-2011, 02:33 AM

I just want to take a moment to acknowledge that the Arrival was fucking horrible. Just bad in every conceivable way. Not even a little good.

Okay. Done. Continue discussing ME3.

Osterbaum · 05-13-2011, 03:13 AM

Arrival was just a weak cash-in. It's evident in how little impact it has on the plot.

Krylo · 05-13-2011, 03:46 AM

Well it has some impact. It explains where the reapers are coming from, when they'll get there, and lets us know what the timeline of the next game will be.

The problem was really in execution. I mean first of all the story makes absolutely no sense unless you've beaten the game first, but it's still open to you at any point like any other DLC. I mean you have 2 hours before the reapers arrive... and I'm supposed to feel like I accomplished something when I blow up the reaper base? If I did that first, the Reapers are already in the galaxy. RIGHT THEN.

Then there's the thing where you can't actually warn the Batarians because you get cut off and there's no option to finish your warning quick before running off, leaving the only real decision you get in the DLC completely neutered.

And as just another bit of 'fuck you' they give you weapons upgrades, but don't let you get back to the Normandy to upgrade shit. Which is completely pointless. They're only worth anything if you do this before everything else, but if you don't do it last it totally fucks up the narrative of both the DLC and the main game. So why put them in there?

It was pure thoughtlessness.

Why give us a choice that doesn't matter?

And the level design was just fucking horrible. I mean, really, the worst in the series.

Add on top of that the fact that Harbinger still shows up as a hologram if you play it earlier... but as the collector general saying all the same shit, and you've just got a huge nonsensical horribly executed mess.

It set up some things for the sequel, namely the time frame, a looming war with the batarians/terminus systems, diplomatic issues regarding presenting a unified front against the reapers given said war, the fact that Shepard has got a court martial waiting for him/her, and the fact that the relays can be destroyed.

But the execution was utter shit.

Osterbaum · 05-13-2011, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Why give us a choice that doesn't matter?

This sums up the whole DLC. Everything in it could've been acomplished with some exposition in the beginning of ME3.

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk · 05-13-2011, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krylo

Yeah, but everyone who ISN'T Jacob or Miranda he says something about how they're famous for this or excellent at that or worth money because of this.

With Jacob he's just like "Welp. Cerberus."

Didn't realize he was just as lackluster with Miranda though.

Relevant. Skip to 1.20.

One problem with that is it doesn't show if there's any different dialogue for certain characters if you do the DLC before the loyalty missions, which there might be for Kasumi and maybe Samara, not sure though.

Solid Snake · 05-13-2011, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krylo

I just want to take a moment to acknowledge that the Arrival was fucking horrible. Just bad in every conceivable way. Not even a little good.

Almost entirely agreed, but I will concede that I was glad to see Admiral Hackett again.
Also, after how legitimately amazing Shadow Broker was -- probably the best DLC I've ever played -- I almost felt like Bioware had earned itself a pass.

By contrast, there was no similar standout in DA:O's DLC (Awakening would have counted if it was sold as a $15 DLC instead of a $40 expansion pack), which was why I was much more pissed off with Witch Hunt.

Krylo · 05-13-2011, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

Also, after how legitimately amazing Shadow Broker was -- probably the best DLC I've ever played -- I almost felt like Bioware had earned itself a pass.

By contrast, there was no similar standout in DA:O's DLC (Awakening would have counted if it was sold as a $15 DLC instead of a $40 expansion pack), which was why I was much more pissed off with Witch Hunt.

I'd agree except for a couple of things:

Firstly, this was supposed to move the main plot forward creating a bridge between games. It needed to be good, you can't half ass something like that. Well obviously you CAN, but there's no good excuse for it.

Secondly, DA:O's DLC were pretty much all just little side missions. Excuses to kill some more shit and get some loot. None of them purported to be important story shit. Witch Hunt was disappointing, but it didn't really have anything plot relevant to tell us. It was just some extra combat, some extra loot, and a little information on eluvians.

Thirdly: ME, in general, is just much more polished than DA is as a franchise. I expect better from ME. I'm not going to expect a DLC that's better than the primary game, for the most part... but I'm also not going to expect one that's horribly worse. This, itself, earns DA's DLC a little more leeway for me.

Fourthly: I'm pretty sure it was done by the same team that did the DA DLCs. That's hearsay, couldn't find any articles talking about who did it on a quick google search, but if true they don't really get a pass.

Osterbaum · 05-14-2011, 04:49 AM

Quote:

I expect better from ME. I'm not going to expect a DLC that's better than the primary game, for the most part... but I'm also not going to expect one that's horribly worse.

Add to that the fact that Lair of the Shadow Broker was a pretty damn good piece of DLC and it is very fair to say that expectations were high for Arival.

Solid Snake · 05-14-2011, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osterbaum

Add to that the fact that Lair of the Shadow Broker was a pretty damn good piece of DLC and it is very fair to say that expectations were high for Arival.

Eh, if given the choice I'd just prefer ME2's inconsistent and unpredictable "sometimes incredible, sometimes crappy, at least a few have a significant impact on the story" approach to DA:O's "consistently mediocre, never important" DLC.

Mind you, I'd prefer like every DLC Bioware makes to be Overlord or Land of the Shadow Broker quality, but I'm assuming that's just simply an unrealistic and impossible expectation. To be quite honest I'm not sure whether Bioware actually lost money on Shadow Broker insofar as it wouldn't surprise me if it cost more to make than it could recover given its cheap cost.

Honestly, though, I'd rather pay $25 for another Shadow Broker than $25 on, say, a smattering of Witch Hunts, Firewalkers and Arrivals. Maybe the solution is less DLC overall, and more expensive DLC, but more DLC that's polished and that actually matters.

Melfice · 05-14-2011, 10:15 AM

I think Firewalker should be given an exempt status.

While it's DLC, and priced accordingly, it was mostly a test-balloon for BioWare.
The Mako wasn't received very well. Instead, BioWare then created the Hammerhead to see if vehicular exploration is still viable. I think the results were positive of the Hammerhead section? And the vehicle in general.

So, I believe vehicular exploration and/or combat will return improved in ME3, thanks to otherwise insignificant DLC.

Speaking of Mass Effect 3.
Think EA has the decency to just title the game Mass Effect 3, instead of something witty, like Mass 3ffect?
Or, innovative, like Mass 3ff3ct?

EDIT: I think I went all over the place with my thoughts here.
If it makes sense, feel free to respond. Otherwise, ignore.

05-13-2011, 02:33 AM	#81
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	I just want to take a moment to acknowledge that the Arrival was fucking horrible. Just bad in every conceivable way. Not even a little good. Okay. Done. Continue discussing ME3. __________________ I am very tired.

05-13-2011, 03:13 AM	#82
Osterbaum The revolution will be memed! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: FIN Posts: 5,967	Arrival was just a weak cash-in. It's evident in how little impact it has on the plot. __________________ D is for Dirty Commie!

05-13-2011, 03:46 AM	#83
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	Well it has some impact. It explains where the reapers are coming from, when they'll get there, and lets us know what the timeline of the next game will be. The problem was really in execution. I mean first of all the story makes absolutely no sense unless you've beaten the game first, but it's still open to you at any point like any other DLC. I mean you have 2 hours before the reapers arrive... and I'm supposed to feel like I accomplished something when I blow up the reaper base? If I did that first, the Reapers are already in the galaxy. RIGHT THEN. Then there's the thing where you can't actually warn the Batarians because you get cut off and there's no option to finish your warning quick before running off, leaving the only real decision you get in the DLC completely neutered. And as just another bit of 'fuck you' they give you weapons upgrades, but don't let you get back to the Normandy to upgrade shit. Which is completely pointless. They're only worth anything if you do this before everything else, but if you don't do it last it totally fucks up the narrative of both the DLC and the main game. So why put them in there? It was pure thoughtlessness. Why give us a choice that doesn't matter? And the level design was just fucking horrible. I mean, really, the worst in the series. Add on top of that the fact that Harbinger still shows up as a hologram if you play it earlier... but as the collector general saying all the same shit, and you've just got a huge nonsensical horribly executed mess. It set up some things for the sequel, namely the time frame, a looming war with the batarians/terminus systems, diplomatic issues regarding presenting a unified front against the reapers given said war, the fact that Shepard has got a court martial waiting for him/her, and the fact that the relays can be destroyed. But the execution was utter shit. __________________ I am very tired.