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Unread 11-12-2013, 01:34 AM   #11
Aerozord
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Conversation I had at work the other day
"Yea but our company's health coverage sucks"
"actually the health care we get is pretty good"
"Only by American standards"
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Unread 11-12-2013, 11:11 AM   #12
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@Kyanbu

What research, if I might ask? Actual research or what the media tells you research? ObamaCare (the ACA) is ready, the website was not ready but the website was and is just a frontend part of ACA. They had to build exchanges for 38 states rather than the originally anticipated 10-15. So, it's understandable how scope creep impacted them.

But I mean, we've waited over 60 years for any kind of healthcare reform. The country needed it, and even if this is only a half-measure, it's a good start. The alternative was to remain with the situation we had, where costs were going up rapidly, policies were cancelled capriciously and people who couldn't afford insurance just went to the ER for everything and had the hospitals bill the taxpayer.

I'd rather have a poor rollout from a half-measure that at least starts to address the problem than the status quo that devoted insane amounts of energy to insisting there wasn't one.

Also, if you don't want to have a debate that's fine, but don't weigh in with an opinion if you aren't prepared for it to be challenged. You're not going to be banned or run out of town following a debate about healthcare. That's just being silly.
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Unread 11-14-2013, 12:18 AM   #13
Kyanbu The Legend
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Default The democrats aren't too pleased with obamacare

I'm not fond of talking politics. It always seems to lead to flame wars and unnecessary fights. But this was something that caught my eye that I figured might be worth sharing. Make of this what you will, but it's not a good sign for obamacare. which seems to resemble Hillarycare back in 1993. Again I'm all for a gov health care program that can truly help all Americans. but Obamacare wasn't the best solution IMO. And technically wasn't even Obama's idea to begin with as it's a modified version of what the Clinton's tried back in 1993.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/13/politi...are-democrats/

Quote:
Washington (CNN) -- A private meeting on Capitol Hill with House Democrats and White House officials on Wednesday became heated when rank-and-file members expressed frustration about continued Obamacare problems, according to multiple sources in the room.

One congressional Democrat who attended the meeting said senior Obama administration officials Mike Hash and David Simas really "got hit" by House Democrats about everything from the troubled website to the broken presidential promise that people can keep the insurance plans they like.
The most pressing political challenge for House Democrats will come this Friday when they will have to vote on a House Republican plan by Rep. Fred Upton of Michigan that allows people to keep their policies if they want to.
Crossfire: Sanchez & Lankford agree Obamacare: What White House needs to do now Obamacare adviser reacts to enrollment Cantor on constituents who like Obamacare

Insurance companies have begun canceling certain individual plans mainly due to Obamacare, creating an unexpected hardship for many who could soon find themselves without coverage or wind up facing higher costs for new plans they may not want.

In California alone, more than 1 million people have received policy termination notices from several insurers because their plans do not meet minimum requirements under the Affordable Care Act, the state's insurance commissioner said this week. Insurers have, in a large number of cases, temporarily extended the time frame for ending those agreements.
Several lawmakers -- even liberals who adamantly support Obamacare -- stood and warned the officials that the White House must come up with a solution before the vote.

As CNN first reported on Tuesday, many House Democrats are feeling so much pressure from constituents on this issue that they may feel compelled to vote yes for political reasons.

"Members want to keep their promises to their constituents, which is that they would have affordable insurance -- if they want to keep the plan they have -- they would keep it," said Rep. Marcy Kaptur, D-Ohio. "We would offer broader insurance alternatives so that people would have more competitive pricing."

Democratic congressional sources have told CNN that Friday is a de facto deadline for the administration to come up with a fix.
The preference would be an administrative remedy that circumvents the polarized Congress. But if that is not possible, Democrats are demanding the White House offer a legislative solution that they can offer as an alternative to the GOP plan.

Administration officials came to the meeting to try to convince House Democrats not to vote for the Upton bill, saying it would gum up the system and result in higher premiums for most Americans, sources told CNN.
"They were talking about the ultimate impact of voting for it. That, in fact, it would allow plans that had high deductibles, very poor coverage -- which of course we want to get rid of," said Jan Schakowsky, D-Illinois.
Democratic Rep. Jose Serrano of New York told reporters he thinks something will "develop over the next 24 hours."

White House spokesman Jay Carney said "you can expect" the Obama administration to announce plans for addressing health policy cancellations under Obamacare "sooner rather than later."

Carney said President Barack Obama has asked "his team" to come up with policy options, suggesting they were moving quickly.

He again rejected the Upton bill as "not an effective fix" because it opens up the plans to anyone, not just the people who's plans are being canceled.
Lawmakers also expressed frustration with the HealthCare.gov website, the chief portal for people who want to sign up for Obamacare through the federal government. It's October 1 launch was a debacle and the administration is scrambling to get it running up to speed.

White House tech expert says healthcare.gov getting better
Source: Nov. deadline possible

HealthCare.gov: How bad is it? 106,185 enrolled through Obamacare Bill Clinton weighs in on Obamacare Democrats frustrated with Obamacare woes Democrats open to changes to Obamacare

Rep. Anna Eschoo of California asked administration officials to stop using "red lines" they may have to cross and make the public relations problems worse for Democrats.

For example, sources in the meeting said she is worried that if the the website is not running smoothly by November 30 as the administration has promised, the political problems for Democrats will be worse.

Though, the focus is chiefly on the House bill over cancellations.
It would allow affected insurance plans to extend into next year and gut a major part of the Affordable Care Act by allowing anyone to purchase them, even though the existing policies don't meet the tougher requirements of the Obamacare initiative.

Can Congress really save insurance plans lost under Obamacare?
Among other things, the law prohibits discrimination for preexisting conditions and mandates coverage for mental health, prenatal care and other issues. This is a primary reason why insurance companies are dropping existing coverage.

Cancellations drive concern
Although the rocky rollout of the Obamacare website and low enrollment figures through Wednesday -- just over 100,000 -- are embarrassments for the President and Democrats in Congress who rammed through the health law in 2010 without Republican support, it is the policy cancellations that are really driving Democrats to put more pressure the White House.

Obama has apologized to those losing their coverage despite his assurances to the contrary and appears to be taking a hit for his Obamacare woes, according to the latest polling.

His approval rating among American voters has dropped to its lowest number in Quinnipiac University polling since he became President with new doubts being raised about trust.

Pressure to come up with a fix
Rep. Steny Hoyer, the No. 2 Democrat in the House, told reporters on Tuesday that Obama needs to come up with a solution "sooner rather than later."

New York Rep. Steve Israel, chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, criticized the House GOP plan, saying he believed it would increase premiums and remove consumer protections.
"We should do something so long as it actually fixes the problem and doesn't make the problem worse." Israel told reporters Tuesday, saying it would be helpful if the White House came out with a proposal before Friday's House vote.

But Rep. John Larsen of Connecticut, a loyal liberal and former House Democratic leader, said he hasn't seen details of the House GOP bill, but said he thought it could "make sense" and that there "could be support" depending on the approach.

Hoyer said earlier he hadn't ruled out being open to Upton's bill, but his spokeswoman says he's now opposed since Upton has said he won't make changes and Democratic leaders will likely urge their caucus to vote against it.

More pressure on Obama
Boosting pressure further on Obama was former President Bill Clinton, who said on Tuesday that the President should find a way to uphold his initial promises about health policies.

Clinton: Obama should 'honor commitment' on keeping health plans
A growing number of Democrats have called for changes or delays to the program as many face tough reelection bids in 2014 and are feeling pressure from challengers and constituents.

Obamacare rattling Democratic nerves
Although he didn't go nearly as far as Clinton, Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Illinois, said he is open to changes as well and noted that Obama should have been more careful with his words in the first place.

Sen. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, introduced a narrower bill than what House Republicans are planning with Upton's plan and said that she has growing support in the Senate, including Dianne Feinstein, Joe Manchin, Mark Pryor and Kay Hagan -- all Democrats.

She noted her proposal would allow people who have individual insurance, which she says makes up about 5% of the market, to keep their coverage. Insurers would have to notify those customers what minimum coverage requirements are not being met.

A Senate Democratic leadership aide told CNN that White House officials will go to Capitol Hill on Thursday to meet with Senate Democrats about looking for a fix.

Obamacare promises: Where things stand
Official: Hackers tried repeatedly to attack Obamacare website
Many in Congress avoiding Obamacare exchanges

Also this was another thing I found.
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/11/...e-public-86876

Quote:
Stonewalled ‘Hillarycare’ records about to be made public

November 10, 2013 by Joe Saunders 3 Comments
After seven years of stonewalling, the Clinton Presidential Library is finally releasing partial records of the White House meetings that produced the Hillary Clinton health care plan – Obamacare’s wicked stepmother.

hillaryclinton1110The conservative watchdog group Judicial Watch has been fighting for the records since 2006, when Hillary Clinton was gearing up for her first run for the presidency – and when Barack Obama was still a junior senator from Illinois best known for a 2004 convention speech that almost made Democrats sound patriotic. (That was the convention, you’ll remember, where America-hating Michael Moore was a guest in former President Jimmy Carter’s box.)

And as bad as Obamacare looks now, the 57,000 pages of recently released records could very well make Hillary look worse. They’re going to remind America that a lot of this Obamacare train wreck started with Hillary Clinton as the chief engineer 20 years ago. As Judicial Watch President Tom Fitten wrote on Breitbart.com, things don’t change much in D.C.

If records Judicial Watch has already wrestled out of the Clinton Library are any guide, almost everything America hates about Obamacare started with Hillarycare:

Its overreach: “I have trouble coming up with a precedent in our peacetime history for such broad and centralized control over a sector of the economy… Is the public really ready for this? [N]one of us knows whether we can make it work well or at all.” (June 18, 1993, internal White House memo, author unknown. The emphasis is added, but it sounds damn familiar.)

Its secrecy: Outgoing U.S. Sen. Jay Rockefeller wrote to Clinton (in an ironically “confidential” memo) that he was afraid a “secret cabal of Washington policy ‘wonks’” had been “choking off information” about health-care reform from the public. (Again, sounds familiar.)

Its thuggery: A Feb. 5, 1993, draft memo described an “interest group data base” with information about groups that “support[ed] us in the election” – with personal information about organization leaders, home phone numbers, addresses, “biographies, analysis of credibility in the media, and known relationships with Congress people.”

These are the Clintons. If they were collecting that information about their supporters, they were collecting twice as much on their opponents. It couldn’t have taken them too long to feed it to the IRS.

Even the individual mandate, the most hated part of the hated Obamacare, came from the Clinton campaign in 2008. (Check out the video below from a February 2008 Democratic primary debate.)

The Clintons, true to form, will be trying to lie about it as 2016 gets closer, but the Judicial Watch records already show they own Obamacare nearly as much as the narcissist whose name it bears.

This poisoned apple didn’t fall far from the tree.
Sorry for the late reply. Like I said this is something I normally don't like to get involved with. Needless to say it'll be interesting and a bit scary to see how this whole mess plays out.
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Unread 11-14-2013, 12:41 AM   #14
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Hillarycare would have been better, but wouldn't have been passed. Healthcare.gov is a mess, but as Shiney already said, there are already going to be issues when something like this is going to be implemented. Think of all the MMORPGs and when they have their launch. It is always rough and those companies spend weeks or months trying to fix issues. It is like that but on a much larger scale. ACA is great for me as it allows me to piggyback on my Step-mothers health insurance. A lot of the policies are far from perfect, but it is a much needed start. It is worth noting that if people do lose health insurance, it tends to be because either the company that person works for or the insurance company is shit. And that the person who becomes uninsured will eventually get insurance by Obamacare. If they cannot afford health insurance then the government will provide it. The whole, you can keep your insurance if you like it, refers to the fact that Obamacare would not force people to change their policies. It can't be helped if other people are shit.

Also, anything that quotes Breitbart.com is not a legitimate source.

I find it interesting though that it is being labeled as a Democrat thing, when the ACA was based out of the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, and Romneycare. The people you are quoting who have this thing against the Clintons, who are far from perfect people but seriously? I see nothing but out of context quotes and and a slant so hard it is taking us off the cliff. These are not good sources Kyanbu. CNN first off is full of political hacks and pseudo-journalism.

Edit: I want to add, Kyanbu I don't mean to talk down to you or anything, I just literally have relevant degrees in the social sciences as this is what I devote myself to. And I can understand how hard it can be to stay frosty on these kinds of issues as most news outlets are quite frankly shit.

Last edited by CABAL49; 11-14-2013 at 12:50 AM.
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Unread 11-14-2013, 12:44 AM   #15
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Default I don't really have anything else to say, this just amused the crap out of me.

Man, you can tell that Biz Pacre View is a very unbiased source.

"The Clintons, true to form, will be trying to lie about it as 2016 gets closer, but the Judicial Watch records already show they own Obamacare nearly as much as the narcissist whose name it bears."
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Unread 11-14-2013, 01:01 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpgdemon View Post
Man, you can tell that Biz Pacre View is a very unbiased source.

"The Clintons, true to form, will be trying to lie about it as 2016 gets closer, but the Judicial Watch records already show they own Obamacare nearly as much as the narcissist whose name it bears."
Just to be clear, isn't it called Obamacare because those against it gave his healthcare proposal that name as a way to patronize it?
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Unread 11-14-2013, 03:21 AM   #17
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Amake broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Amake broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Amake broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Amake broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Amake broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Amake broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Amake broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Amake broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Amake broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Amake broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Amake broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something.
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They're clearly referring to the little known Anthony F Fordable, the man who initially proposed the Health Care Act as it then was called.
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Unread 11-17-2013, 12:17 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerozord View Post
Just to be clear, isn't it called Obamacare because those against it gave his healthcare proposal that name as a way to patronize it?
Yes, originally, but I've heard Obama himself called it Obamacare in a speech. We're through the looking glass here, people!
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