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Unread 02-04-2012, 04:20 PM   #201
Solid Snake
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Like, just to clarify: The thing about my position on the issue is that it's entirely subjective, and at no point in time did I claim to be offering an "objective dissertation" on why everyone else should choose Morinith over Samara or why Samara is "objectively worse" than Morinith.

I just expressed that I personally chose Morinith over Samara, a lot of y'all appeared to (not rudely, I mis-characterized that out of frustration above) ask me "Why did you choose Morinith over Samara?" and I gave you an honest response.
Like I could have cited all kinds of objective arguments favoring Morinith, but those responses wouldn't actually be related as to why I personally chose to let Morinith live over Samara, which is exactly what you all seemed to be asking.
But then y'all suddenly went ballistic on me just for stating my honest subjective opinion!

At no point did I anticipate that I'd actually get bashed simply for making a different decision than you did in a videogame, because at no point was I trying to make an argument regarding Morinith's "objective value" over Samara. I never said "If you chose Samara over Morinith, you're a terrible conservative-loving hypocrite." I just said "I personally chose Morinith because of these reasons," and I even said it in a self-deprecating manner that insulted my OWN reasons for making that decision!

...Like what the hell did I possibly do wrong there?
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Unread 02-04-2012, 04:23 PM   #202
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Quote:
You All: "How dare you bring conservatives into this!!!"
Don't mischaracterize my posts.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 04:26 PM   #203
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Not a single person bashed you, unless disagreeing with you is now somehow a personal attack on you


only 3 people actually posted in response to your bringing it up, and they did nothing but present THEIR reasonings as to why they personally chose one over the other, and that it wasn't such a matter of making a...how did it go...


Quote:
terrible moral decision
to them.

If you really, honestly want to know

Quote:
Like what the hell did I possibly do wrong there?
It was attacking people that presented a differing opinion in the same exact way you presented yours by yelling that they were all just being mean to you, and over-blowing everything that was said to be a slight against you.

EDIT: And I'm gonna call you on that first quote because claiming something is a terrible moral decision and then claiming that it wasn't an objective remark is bullshit.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 04:33 PM   #204
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Holy shit I literally do not care this much about it, goddamn
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Originally Posted by BitVyper View Post
Does this really need to be a discussion about your feelings on conservatives, Snake? Is it not possible to discuss the characters based on the game?
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Originally Posted by Marc v4.0 View Post
Lightly presenting varying points of conversation over the pros and cons of the choice as they relate to the mission, the personalities, and the possible outcomes is all fine and dandy, but It really isn't worth the effort to have an all-out row because you have already decided she is terrible because she reminds you of the conservatives you just have a seething hatred for. I am not equipped to tackle that, so No Thank You Good Sir.
This isn't 'disagreeing' with me.
You're not even making arguments against my positions, you're just stating:

1: "I asked you a question and you answered it, but I don't like your answer, and instead of even just saying that I dislike your answer I'm going to instead insinuate you're a jerk for elaborating upon it beyond what was necessary. Also, my response is specifically designed to completely shut you down and make you look like a fool."

2: "Are you incapable of having a coherent, rational conversation about this, Snake?"

3: "I'm going to misconstrue your subjective opinion as to why you personally chose one character over another as an objective argument as to the merits or flaws of those characters, then utilize that misconstruction to deliberately portray you as incapable of actually making any objectively reasonable or sound argument on the matter, and subsequently dismiss you."

Like, you can't ask someone "Why do you personally, subjectively dislike something?"
And then upon getting a subjective answer, respond to that by saying: "Why the fuck did you answer that question personally and subjectively? We can't objectively argue with you because you're being subjective and making terrible arguments!"
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Unread 02-04-2012, 04:37 PM   #205
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Ignoring, once again, that I wasn't trying to argue either character with you at all.

GG

At this point I might as well have engaged you in a horrible argument about Samara, as I would be saving myself a lot of time I am currently wasting trying to explain that I wasn't.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 04:43 PM   #206
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Whatever the hell you were trying to do, it was entirely possible to do so without injecting a bit of indirect disdain and dismissal into it. Instead of insulting me by saying "Holy shit I literally don't give a damn about what you're typing," say, "Snake, I'd rather discuss the characters on their objective merits, rather than get into your personal reasons for liking or disliking Samara. Can we do that instead?" And then I'd say, "Okay!"

Instead of insinuating, "You are incapable of discussing this topic objectively or rationally, Snake," say, "Hey Snake, let's have an objective and rational discussion about the characters," and give me a chance to actually respond in the manner you'd prefer me to before dismissing the conversation entirely or trying to make me look like a fool.

Again, you basically decided that I was incapable of having an objective conversation with you -- therefore meriting your dismissal -- without ever asking me prior to that moment, in a remotely polite or decent way, "Hey Snake, instead of your personal reasons for preferring X over Y, let's do it this way instead." If you don't inform me that you want a tonal shift, I'll keep going under the assumption that you asked me why I personally preferred X over Y and I'll assume that a bunch of self-deprecating jokes on the matter are pertinent and permissible.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 04:51 PM   #207
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I think I made it pretty damn clear, son, that I didn't give enough of a shit about the discussion to take it to the level you wanted to. If I just didn't want to talk to you, I'd be doing something besides having this funtastic little discussion with you right now.

In fact, I said that. In no uncertain terms I laid it out clearly that I did not have a vested enough interest in the characters beyond what Bioware detailed, and Bioware didn't detail anything this deep.

Seeing as how you are attacking people who merely disagreed with your choice before I said anything as flipping out at you, I really don't think you are capable of discussing this in a rational and objective manner.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 04:54 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc v4.0 View Post
I think I made it pretty damn clear, son, that I didn't give enough of a shit about the discussion to take it to the level you wanted to. If I just didn't want to talk to you, I'd be doing something besides having this funtastic little discussion with you right now.

In fact, I said that. In no uncertain terms I laid it out clearly that I did not have a vested enough interest in the characters beyond what Bioware detailed, and Bioware didn't detail anything this deep.
Then why not type that instead of the one sentence you did type which is easy to interpret as: "I can't have this conversation with you because you're incapable of discussing this in a rational and objective manner?"

Oh, no, wait...

Quote:
Seeing as how you are attacking people who merely disagreed with your choice before I said anything as flipping out at you, I really don't think you are capable of discussing this in a rational and objective manner.
...You actually do believe I'm incapable of discussing the subject in a rational and objective manner.
Whelp, that answers that, then.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 05:01 PM   #209
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guys can't we just contemplate our place in the cosmos and eat breakfast pastries
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Unread 02-04-2012, 05:01 PM   #210
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Yeah, Why didn't I follow that Post up with an Edit that said Bioware didn't make them that deep, I don't want to take it that far and then another post detailing how you were taking it too far and re-afirming that It wasn't my desire to out-argue the presented depth?

Oh, I did.


Yes, Snake. At the moment I now believe you are incapable of having a rational and objective discussion because you reactions have been irrational and filled with subjective angst that everone hates you and are disagreeing just to be big meany heads.

That is not the tone or actions of a rational, objective person. Sorry.
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