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Unread 05-24-2010, 11:40 AM   #1
Lumenskir
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TV Lost comes to The End: Spoilers Inside. Massive Spoilers.

As the title says, Spoilers are here, mainly because the only people I can see actually opening this thread are those who've already watched the finale. (Nonetheless, my personal thoughts on being a Lost viewer for a little bit so that the scroll over text doesn't catch someone unawares...)

Lost is not the first series finale I've ever watched, but it is the first one that I felt so truly devastated, emotionally, after viewing. I've been thinking why this is since the final image, because I don't remember feeling the same way during the last episode of The Wire or Arrested Development, two shows which I'd rank far higher and higher (respectively) on any potential best TV list. I suppose if I had to diagnose my emotions for those two, it was more disappointment and anger at a world that would cut short such pieces of greatness with more to offer, whereas Lost was designed to last just so long. But really, when it comes right down to it though, those were shows I found after they had started, and Lost was something that I followed from the start until the end, receiving information week by week instead of in marathon sessions. I can recognize, even now, that Lost was not a perfect series, but it was one that I nonetheless invested the most of myself in. I pot committed to following the show six (SIX!!) years ago, and goddammit if it didn't pay out in the end.

(Actually talking about the show now, sorry extra long roll over)

Over at HitFix, one of the TV reviewers there made the point that Lost (the show) was overtaken by Lost (the conversations about Lost (the show)) a few seasons ago. There's a valid discussion to be had on that point, but I still feel like I just watched an absolutely phenomenal show last night. I loved seeing the characters reunited and restored in the sideways-verse, I loved the transitions of Guardian power and role asumption (honestly, from the second it dawned on me that Jack had efectively become Locke, in order to take down Locke...I just couldn't stop smiling), I loved Smokey finally being put down and Hurley becoming probably the best Protector of the Island anyone could hope for...

And yes, even after careful reflection, I love that sideways-verse is Purgatory/the greatest waiting area. This is a character show after all, and if they needed to invoke an afterlife for one last chance to allow everyone to get back together, I'm going to accept it. If it had stuck to solely the real world, solely the Island, rewatching the series would have seen the characters end up mostly as pawns, automatons with a specific purpose and a dwindling number of episodes left before they died. Knowing that they have something beyond the Island, something eternal...just powerful stuff.

Speaking of rewatching, can we officially crown Cuse and Lindelof the Dickens of the modern era? I know The Wire is sometime called Dickensian, but that makes David Simon mad and ignores the fact that its a tragedy planned out in advance. I can't think of any other show, however, that's recaptured the spirit of serialization by the seat of your pants as well as Lost has. Heck, I don't even think there's a medium outside of television that even has the capability these days. (Well, maybe comics?)

So, to save some thoughts for further discussion, I'll just end this post with a few random points

- Best Review - Ah A.v. Club, you truly prove that we live in the best of all possible worlds.

- Funniest Coincidence - In something entirely unrelated, this week's Party Down featured Steve Guttenberg informing a pair of hard sci-fi screenwriters that science fiction and heart are not mutually exclusive. Smash cut to the A.V. Club comments in the review above, where a number of people express disbelief that their beloved sci-fi show spent so much time on character interaction and relationships. You can't really write that, can you?

- Worst Consequence of the Finale - In less than 12 hours after the finale, my unscientific review of message board comments seems to reveal that at least 10% of the viewing population believe that the entire show was Purgatory (these same commenters then exclaim outrage that the creators were lying). So far they've mostly excepted the explanation that it was only the sideways-verse that could count as Purgatory, but they still made the wrong intuitive leap on first viewing. Now, my concern is that if we time skip to twenty years in the future, when someone picks up the 20th anniversary edition of collected Lost on MindCube, will they come to the correct conclusion, or will they succumb to the "Everything was Purgatory" fallacy and have no outlet to set them straight?

- Michael Giacchino is a Fucking Pimp - First Lost, then Up, then he becomes the only redeeming factor on the Jimmy Kimmel Lost Abortion Special by displaying amazing control of that greatest of sonic attacks: the unexpected joke stinger. I salute you, MG.

- Jacob is a Manificent Douche - I've felt this way for a long time, and this has nothing to do with the finale (other than the fact that the Hurley + Ben combo is again the greatest thing to happen to both of those characters and the Island), but Jacob is getting off a little too easy since everyone started piling on Smokey. Honestly, maybe it's just because Lost programmed me to not accept anyone as pure good/evil, but ever since his first appearance I couldn't shake the feeling that he was a chessmaster dick. While I appreciate that he diverged from his mother in respecting people he forced to come to the Island, the fact that he still employed her favored practice of indiscriminate slaughter when newcomers got too uppity never sat right with me. Although I have nothing to base this, my final Lost theory, on, I get the feeling that Jacob knew exactly what would happen when he arranged for Desmond to come back to the Island and presented the choice to the candidates, that it was a post-life Xanatos chess play to circuitously kill Smokey by breaking the Island's rules one last time and set the stage clean. So sure, Jacob, you're plan worked out and I was impressed. You're still a douche to me.

- Uhh...I have nothing else at this time, what about you guys?
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Unread 05-24-2010, 11:43 AM   #2
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Never watched Lost. Never will. Hopefully people will now stop telling me to.
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Unread 05-24-2010, 12:09 PM   #3
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I never got into lost myself, but the typical response among my friends is that there wasn't enough answered and "OMG BOX SET WANT NAO" so that they can get those answers.

Also, that the last fifteen minutes or so seemed oddly reminiscent of a different series with a disappointing finale...

Last edited by Julford Hajime; 05-24-2010 at 12:10 PM. Reason: Blarg spelling.
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Unread 05-24-2010, 12:17 PM   #4
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The Jimmy Kimmel show was awesome last night!
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Unread 05-24-2010, 01:01 PM   #5
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Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something.
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Lost came to an end for me early when I got halfway through DVDs of the fourth season and said, "Well, that was a complete waste of time" and quit watching.

From what I've read the ending did not suddenly make the show not terrible, just even more needlessly convoluted, I don't think going to the end would suddenly make those hours not wasted. People should've just pulled their troops off the Island and brought them home!
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Unread 05-24-2010, 02:09 PM   #6
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I liked it, especially the actual island story line. I did read a few threads elsewhere where people seemed to be upset with the lack of actual pure answers (like what, not who, is the smoke monster? and the purpose of the light itself other than seemingly creating the impossible) but I enjoyed it because it was the accumulation of a lot of the character stories, and for me at last Lost was always as character driven as it was mythological.

I'm less satisfied with the sideways world though. While it has been interesting and nice to see character come together again and interact in the same way as we''d remember them, the reveal that it was the afterlife seemed rather pointless. It was great to see all the characters where they should be and ready to move on, but was it something we really needed to be shown? Did we really need to know that in death everyone will find each other and happy again? Again, I'm not saying it's not a nice idea, but why did it need to be explicitly stated? That's not to mention that I don't really understand why Faraday and Charlotte didn't go with them? Clearly they set off the bomb to create a place where they could all meet and find each other, but why were Faraday and Charlotte excluded from that when clearly, some non-815ers such as Penny, Desmond and Juliet were included. Some 815ers weren't included either, and while I'm aware that some like Michael didn't feature because they can't move on, what about others like Ana, and Walt? To be fair, I don't expect them to explain the result of every characters journey, and I don't care about Ana anyway, but the most they gave them was that 'it wasn't her time yet'. Ok, fair enough, but it did seem like a bit of a handwave just because they couldn't figure out any real way to include them.

Overall, I did enjoy and am satisfied with the finale and I've enjoyed the show as a whole. The sideways universe seems a unnecessary but really, going in I was afraid that they'd destroy the island and the main 'verse' in favour of cheap imitations of the characters we already knew, so it was a definite step up from my expectations.
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Unread 05-24-2010, 02:12 PM   #7
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Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something.
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The real LOST ending:

"Final scene of Lost.

Michael sits in Santa Rosa, painting a picture we can't see. Jack walks up to him.

"And how are we doing today, Mr. Reyes?"

"I want to see my son."

"Mr. Reyes, you know your son died in a plane crash in 2004." "I want to see Walt!"

"Michael, you know you can't do that!"

Michael suddenly rolls back from his table, revealing himself to be in a wheelchair.

"Don't tell me what I can't do! I wanna see my son! That is my right! That is a father's right!"

"Nurse Catherine, Nurse Julia! Help me sedate this patient!"

Juliet and Kate enter, and hold Michael still while Jack injects him with a sedative.

"Waaaaaalt. ....Walt. wl. t."

The camera moves over to reveal Michael's painting, a scene of Richard grappling with an angel with black smoke trailing off from it as they plummet into a volcano.

We cut to a scene of Jack filling out forms in his office. He looks up to see Frank Lapidus enter.

"Had to take Shepard's body as well, did you?"

"Hello Jacob. It was clever of you to save as many as you could by merging the possible iterations, overlapping their identities into Hurley's mind."

"He was always the clearest doorway."

"You may have been right about one soul, but I was right about the rest. And there's no way any of them will ever remember, I'll see to it. No lessons learned, none coming out the wiser. No tangible enlightenment achieved."

"You always see the forest brother, never the trees. It's not about learning. It's about living."

"Well, seems like someone should do something badass to end the show--er, the game forever. What say you w-

SUDDENLY SMOKE MONSTERS, THOUSANDS OF THEM. Wisps of smoke flood in from every direction, and enshroud Jacob. He becomes smoke with them, and a doorway of smoke appears freestanding in the room. It becomes like ebony, and opens.

Out springs Desmond, in gleaming armor and with robot eyes.

"THE VARIABLE! CURSE YOU AND YOUR CONSTANT MEDDLING!"

"Flashes before your eyes!" Desmond spoke, his voice reverberating as a god's would in the small office.

Lasers SHOOT out from Desmond's eyes, ripping into Jack's torso and making it glow like a cinder.

Desmond bellowed, "All these folds of time shall be pulled taut. Let all that should not have been be undone. Universe, correct your course!"

As he says this, Jack changes form as he writhes in agony. For a moment we see Jack's eye opening again in the jungle, but this flashes away in violet and we return to the office.

We see alternate people waking up from alternate tragedies. Richard's eye opens as he lays amidst the beached Black Rock. The man in black appears, waking up in his village as a lava flow destroys it.

Back in the office, we finally see the form of a pained John Locke appear.

"Desmond, help me. Help me. I am plagued with demons!"

"No John, you are the demons.

...

...

....

...

...brotha."

L O S T
"

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/22262343/Lost-Ending

See, that would've been awesome.
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Unread 05-24-2010, 02:25 PM   #8
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It was all aliens. And Satan. The island was their zoo.
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Unread 05-24-2010, 02:35 PM   #9
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Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something. Magus broke the dial off at twelve but is probably at infinity or something.
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No, no, it was a sentient AI from the future creating an island chain to test whether or not you could control people's minds through save points.
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Unread 05-24-2010, 03:16 PM   #10
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I liked it, especially the actual island story line. I did read a few threads elsewhere where people seemed to be upset with the lack of actual pure answers (like what, not who, is the smoke monster? and the purpose of the light itself other than seemingly creating the impossible) but I enjoyed it because it was the accumulation of a lot of the character stories, and for me at last Lost was always as character driven as it was mythological.
A while ago I came to the conclusion that Lost works best when it presents just enough clues for a viewer's knowledgeable interpretation of the facts, rather than having one character explain to another character what the writers explicitly want.

Along that line, I really like it when the show presents just enough for a rather mythological interpretation, as opposed to a hard sci-fi "Here's the schematic for how it works." Going off your two examples, I am perfectly content with "The smoke monster is the released evil of the island" and "The island/light is a source of great power, able to be used for great evil or great good, but probably better off not being messed with at all" as they are sort of archetypal concepts I can be content and work with.
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It was great to see all the characters where they should be and ready to move on, but was it something we really needed to be shown? Did we really need to know that in death everyone will find each other and happy again? Again, I'm not saying it's not a nice idea, but why did it need to be explicitly stated? That's not to mention that I don't really understand why Faraday and Charlotte didn't go with them? Clearly they set off the bomb to create a place where they could all meet and find each other, but why were Faraday and Charlotte excluded from that when clearly, some non-815ers such as Penny, Desmond and Juliet were included. Some 815ers weren't included either, and while I'm aware that some like Michael didn't feature because they can't move on, what about others like Ana, and Walt? To be fair, I don't expect them to explain the result of every characters journey, and I don't care about Ana anyway, but the most they gave them was that 'it wasn't her time yet'. Ok, fair enough, but it did seem like a bit of a handwave just because they couldn't figure out any real way to include them.
As regards to if the sideways-verse had to be explicitly stated, I'd have to think that it either had to be or it couldn't be a factor, like, at all. Before the reveal (or hell, the season) I would not have assumed that the bonds of the Island extended beyond the mortal coil, and seeing that it does so is at once sort of obvious but comforting to be told. A common joke/observation during the first season was that the episode where a character fulfilled the extent of their purpose on the Island was the episode where they would then die. Like I mentioned, I like that sideways presents a realm where they become more than just means to an end.

For the final roll call of the room, I'm sure there was casting issues (like with Mr. Eko and various kids), but a lot of it also has to do with what characters got out of the sideways. Jack and Juliette get a kid, which allows them to work through their various issues, Ben gets a chance to reacquaint himself with his daughter and atone, etc etc. I don't know if I agree that it was specifically flight 815 that determined the guest list, because I believe Christian mentioned something about the Island itself. In that context, it was vastly important in Juliette and Desmond's life, and I can see the case for why Penny spent so much of her life concerned with the island (we have to assume she led the charge to find Desmond the second time). For Walt, I just assumed that the Island wasn't the most important part of his life like it was for the others.

Finally, for Faraday and Charlotte and Ana Lucia, if I had to pick a common thread for them it would probably be the fact that their Island time wasn't as clean cut as some others. Libby at least died in the arms of people who cared for her, Ana Lucia was less ceremonious (sort of the same for Charlotte). Faraday, as the planner and psuedo-creator of the entire sideways existence, probably needed some time to understand and accept what he did. Eloise meanwhile is probably atoning for killing her son by spending as much time with him as she can (see: Ben).
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Overall, I did enjoy and am satisfied with the finale and I've enjoyed the show as a whole. The sideways universe seems a unnecessary but really, going in I was afraid that they'd destroy the island and the main 'verse' in favour of cheap imitations of the characters we already knew, so it was a definite step up from my expectations.
I'm guessing J.J. stole that ending for Fringe.
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