Echo-o-o-o

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Betty Elms

Pish posh I say! We need to talk more about Liz! The beast may be banished, but her shadow lingers on, cursing these afflicted lands. Start a thread on it why not? Start six threads!

Well, if you insist.

[Fenris]

Betty, your vitriolic hyperbole is not furthering whatever cause you are attempting to promote.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Some of the posts of people in this specific thread kinda make me want to leave. Luckily I have nowhere else to go.

Originally Posted by Nikose Tyris

Somebody make another thread soon about something chill and fun.

http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=42131

EDIT: Oh, hey there's a second page... well okay. Still got nowhere to go.

EDIT2: The fuck Betty? Did your account get hacked?

[POS Industries]

Originally Posted by Azisien

But that discussion never took place, because continuing with this example, someone has a freeeeeeeeeeeakout and mods are understandably like holy shit this thread or that thread is on fire I need to close this. And then silence.

Actually, what happened was that the thread was absolutely terrible because a bunch of people just couldn't seem to understand why rape victims and people concerned for the feelings of rape victims are put off by rape jokes, and Poch basically summed up why making rape jokes is a shitty thing to do and I felt that was the best note to close the thread on.

It wasn't that she had a freeeeeeakout, it was that she WAS ABSOLUTELY 100% RIGHT.

I am very sorry for what happened to you. Rape is an awful experience to go through and I can never possibly understand what it's like without going through it myself. And that's great that you've worked through it to a point that you can laugh about it. I'm happy for you for that. But the thing is that a lot of people haven't, and probably never will. They will never be able to hear a joke like that and not be reminded of how they were attacked and terrorized. It's not going to go away, and it's not their fault that it doesn't. And it's not their responsibility to make sure that whatever they're watching isn't going to make light of how they've been victimized.

That's the point. You can't make a rape joke without doing that, and therefore it's almost insurmountably difficult to make one that is funny enough to counterbalance that effect. Pretty much as close to impossible as you can realistically get. And anyone is well within their right to make those jokes, but it doesn't change the fact that it is an asshole thing to do, and if someone is understandably hurt by it and calls the comedian out on being an asshole, then they also have that right, and they're correct in doing so, because the comedian is an asshole for making the joke.

I really don't actually agree that people who are offended by things that assholes do should "grow thicker skin." It's not their responsibility to do so, neither in the real world nor on these forums. And I am absolutely sick to death of people getting upset because someone else saying something stupid and terrible has a higher chance of being punished nowadays than the stupid and terrible thing the other person said.

Token said that mod inaction has become a problem here, and I will be the first to admit that I am super duper guilty of that. And that's because, when I started, I stupidly upheld the very tone-centric nonsense that has been killing this community. "Person X is utterly wrong in a way that pretty much makes him a terrible person, but Person Y used like all caps and called him out on being a terrible person in a rude way. Better ban Person Y." It was wrong and it was awful and dumb and I regret every second of it. So I just, sorta, stopped trying. Because I didn't know what else to do, because Person X never actually quite breaks any specific rules so I can't just crack down on them for having wrong opinions.

Oh, and by the way:

Originally Posted by RobinStarwing

An opinion is neither right nor is it wrong.

This is the biggest pile of horseshit I've ever read on these forums. Absolutely there are right and wrong opinions. An opinion that contradicts things that are proven facts is absolutely 100% wrong.

"I think all black people are thieving layabouts." This is an opinion. It is wrong. And also evil. Anyone who thinks this is actually a monster.

"I think trickle down economics and the invisible hand of the free market are the only true ways to elevate everyone to a position of prosperity." This is another example of a wrong opinion.

"This person's appearance does not fit into my subjective idea of what is socially acceptable, so therefore there is something wrong with their mental health." This, too, is an opinion. And it is totally incorrect.

Should we punish people for having wrong opinions? In some instances, like where racism is involved, certainly. But usually not. Should we be protecting the right to be wrong more than the right to be angry about being right? That, too, depends on the situation. Being mad at someone for, I dunno, having FF8 as their favorite game is one thing, but if the person is angry because the wrong opinion is actually harmful on a larger social level, then I'm not really sure we should stop them.

Because this whole thing we've been doing where we're protecting the feelings of people who say terrible things over the feelings of people upset by the terrible things simply because we're afraid of running off the former is doing nothing but resulting in us running off the latter in the long run.

[Fifthfiend]

Originally Posted by Azisien

I've been raped - even as a white male! - but I seriously and fully without denial don't think that means, for instance, that rape can never be brought up in comedic situations.

You also don't think that rape victims deserve sympathy, sooooo

[Betty Elms]

Originally Posted by Fenris

Betty, your vitriolic hyperbole is not furthering whatever cause you are attempting to promote.

My cause is making fun of people for not getting over Liz and being passive aggressive dicks about it. For all the complaints of her being overly sensitive, a bunch of you seem to have trouble getting over whatever bruises she left you. I'm not even annoyed that you dislike her. I mean, I'm fond of the girl, but we're not all that close. Just don't worry guys, there are worse things that might happen other than somebody forgetting how much you were once bothered by Liz.

Anyway I'm more annoyed with the "grow a thicker skin" mentality being advocated about this thread. I understand Token's problems with the tumblresque approach on That Other Place and would actually like to talk to him about it some time, but I'd sure as hell take that over "when uncertain, err on the side of being a dick."

[phil_]

Originally Posted by Betty Elms

My cause is making fun of people for not getting over Liz and being passive aggressive dicks about it. For all the complaints of her being overly sensitive, a bunch of you seem to have trouble getting over whatever bruises she left you. I'm not even annoyed that you dislike her. I mean, I'm fond of the girl, but we're not all that close. Just don't worry guys, there are worse things that might happen other than somebody forgetting how much you were once bothered by Liz.

Anyway I'm more annoyed with the "grow a thicker skin" mentality being advocated about this thread. I understand Token's problems with the tumblresque approach on That Other Place and would actually like to talk to him about it some time, but I'd sure as hell take that over "when uncertain, err on the side of being a dick."

What about the part where NPF is all scatological humor delivered by closeted racists? Like, I'm not sure what that post advanced concerning

The Liz Problem.

[Marc v4.0]

Originally Posted by phil_

What about the part where NPF is all scatological humor delivered by closeted racists? Like, I'm not sure what that post advanced concerning

The Liz Problem.

I think hat was mostly about Robin, who has talked at length about his shit habits and said horribly sexist creeper things about his ex-wife and then been a terrible racist and still allowed to post here and how that makes everything so much better for everyone!

[PyrosNine]

Originally Posted by akaSM

Oh, don't be silly, I couldn't go to Robin's party because I was too busy saving orphans from a fire. Oddly enough, witnesses say that it was caused by some creature that kept meowing while setting things (and orphans!) on fire.

....Shit!

[Azisien]

Originally Posted by Fifthfiend

You also don't think that rape victims deserve sympathy, sooooo

It was 2007, I was wrong. And shown why thanks to the thread. Maybe? It was goddamn five years ago. I wish I could delve into what I was thinking five years ago, but eidetic memory escapes. It looks like the thread caught fire while I was busy and I came back and GTFO.

To POS, thanks for the serious, descriptive, non-inflammatory reply. I am mobile right now and it is too cumbersome to address, but I will get around to it.