The Warring States of NPF  

Go Back   The Warring States of NPF > Social > Playing Games
User Name
Password
Mark Forums Read
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Join Chat

Reply
View First Unread View First Unread   Click to unhide all tags.Click to hide all tags.  
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 01-06-2012, 11:11 PM   #11
Kerensky287
Just That Good
 
Kerensky287's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,426
Kerensky287 is like Reed Richards, but prettier. Kerensky287 is like Reed Richards, but prettier. Kerensky287 is like Reed Richards, but prettier. Kerensky287 is like Reed Richards, but prettier. Kerensky287 is like Reed Richards, but prettier. Kerensky287 is like Reed Richards, but prettier. Kerensky287 is like Reed Richards, but prettier.
Default

My cards came in! Eldritch Onslaught now kicks all sorts of butt, but is very unfocused because when I ordered the cards I understood the game even less than I do now.

My current deck is more than 60 cards, so it needs to be pruned, but the stuff just came in today and my brother wanted a game immediately.

The contents:

-12x Island
-11x Mountain

-3x Darksteel Myr
-3x Iron Myr
-3x Silver Myr
-2x Murder of Crows

-4x Burning Vengeance
-1x Back from the Brink
-3x Curse of the Bloody Tome
-1x Unwinding Clock <-Threw this in at the last minute.
-4x Pristine Talisman
-2x Crystal Chimes <-Not tournament legal. Not especially useful anyway.
-2x Catalyst Stone <-Not tournament legal which makes me VERY sad.

-2x Silent Departure
-1x Geistflame
-3x Dream Twist
-2x Lost in the Mist
-3x Devil's Play
-3x Runic Repetition
-2x Desperate Ravings
-2x Think Twice

Total: 69 cards

How I played the deck: Curse of the Bloody Tome gets cast as soon as I draw it, and I cast Dream Twist on myself whenever I have extra mana. Thanks to Burning Vengeance and Back from the Brink, almost all of my cards are useful even after they've been sent to the graveyard; all the stuff that can't be brought back (artifacts, enchantments, mana) generally exists in enough numbers that I can stand to mill one or two.

Back from the Brink actually tends to act as a bit of a bomb. Once it hits the field, I necessarily have enough mana to cast 3 Myr at once from the graveyard, and if I was lucky enough to cast them from my hand, I can even occasionally use them to block.

But blocking isn't the point. If he's using lots of smaller creatures, I'm killing them all with Geistflame or Burning Vengeance. If he's using a few big ones, Darksteel Myr takes care of it. If he isn't focusing on creatures, Burning Vengeance and Devil's Play will have killed him already anyway. Once my mana reserves reach a respectable amount, I win, no questions asked.

Strengths: This deck is very good at stealing an opponent's inertia. Darksteel Myr stops non-flying combatants in their tracks. Burning Vengeance lets me just kill things whenever I like, thanks to the low flashback cost of most of my instant spells.

Desperate Ravings and Think Twice are great, and they make it much more likely for me to find my crucial enchantments (Burning Vengeance and, to a lesser extent, Back from the Brink) before I mill them. Geistflame is kind of shitty without Burning Vengeance, but it's a handy card to have nonetheless. Those three, paired with Dream Twist, Burning Vengeance and Catalyst Stone, allow me to put out an ungodly amount of damage each turn.

Catalyst Stone is the big one, and while I don't think I'll ever play in a tournament or any sort of official setting, I am very, very sad that it isn't really considered "legal." It reduces my flashback costs by 2 colorless, which means most of my flashbacks only cost a single mana, and Devil's Play gets 2 free damage.

What really surprised me, though, was Unwinding Clock. I had one in my Life for Death deck, and after getting so many Myr, I decided I may as well try it.

After seeing the results - nigh-infinite mana during your opponent's turn, and nigh-infinite life from Pristine Talisman - I think I need to make room for a few more. I can probably get by without it, but it's definitely a boon if it reaches the field.

Weaknesses: Massive vulnerability to flying stuff, enchantments, and anything with hexproof or shroud. Lost in the Mist costs too much mana to really be worth planning for, so I find that I can never counter stuff when I need to, but that might just be me.

Crystal Chimes was useless. I put it in as a sort of saving throw against milling my Burning Vengeance/Back from the Brink, but it's incredibly expensive, and you never really need to have ALL of your enchantments at once. I'm taking it out of the deck.

Runic Repetition is a neat idea, but I never really found a good time to use it. By the time my damage engine gets going, I tend to have plenty of options in my graveyard, and I'd rather be spending my mana on Devil's Play anyway.

Plans for improvement:
-Get rid of Crystal Chimes.
-More cheap flashback cards, especially Desperate Ravings, Think Twice, and Geistflame.
-Drop some of the more expensive stuff. This deck hits its stride when I can cast a whole bunch of spells at once, and while Lost in the Mist and Murder of Crows are wonderful cards, I just never get a chance to play them.
-More Myr, more Unwinding Clocks, more Back from the Brink. If I cast a single Back from the Brink, and I've been milling my deck properly, I can usually get 2 or 3 Myr in a single turn, and with Unwinding Clock, I can get twice as much mana out of them.
-I'm okay with having more than 60 cards here; I never found myself running out of mana thanks to my Myr and Talismans, and I'd rather not have to worry about my deck running out. Plus, finding specific cards I needed was never really a problem, since they were generally accessible from my graveyard. Adapting for tournament play might be a problem though.


So while I'm sure anybody reading this is clicking their tongue, shaking their head and/or facepalming at some really obvious thing that I've missed, I feel optimistic about this deck. I'm dying to try it against somebody new, and I'm sort of hoping that after I beat my brother's deck enough with this one, he'll decide to switch to one of the others we have lying around. What I can say for certain is that my deck cuts down illusions like nobody's business, and I never have the kinds of creatures that are worth it for him to Mind Control. I'm satisfied about that.
__________________
People who live in
Glass homes should not throw stones or
Jerk off at daytime
Kerensky287 is offline Add to Kerensky287's Reputation   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2012, 06:27 PM   #12
Gregness
Never give up. Never give in.
 
Gregness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,034
Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know!
Default

Honestly, the only thing I'd tell you is that I'd ditch the Myr/Back From the Brink plan altogether. Armored Skaab/Stitched Drake/Skaab Ruinator does much the same thing, but it doesn't have a single point of vulnerability like your deck. Like, if an opponent has enchantment killing cards, you've only got the one back from the brink in your deck and if they kill that one card, a whole section of your plan falls apart.

And, you're right. Lost in the mist isn't that great. It's only barely playable in limited, much less a constructed deck. Dissipate or Mana Leak might be better options for you.

Also, it might not be a bad idea to ditch the pristine talismans in favor of Deranged Assistant. it costs less mana, taps for colorless as well as milling yourself (which as you've noted is a good thing), and can block in a pinch.

Civilized Scholar draws you a card, then lets you discard one which helps you set up both your flashback and lets you bin creatures to activate the big blue zombies. In addition, if your opponent ever misses a beat, you can take advantage of their transformation to get in for some BIG damage.

Armored Skaabs do basically everything you could possibly want in a deck like yours. They mill yourself, block quite a few creatures and live to tell the tale, and share mana costs with curse of the bloody tome. In fact, I would just straight replace the curses with these guys since in most circumstances milling four now is better than milling two per turn that doesn't start 'till next turn.


So, keeping the same card count, here's what I'd recommend:

-3 darksteel myr, -3 iron myr, -3 silver myr, -1 back from the brink, -3 curse of the bloody tome, -1 unwinding clock, -2 crystal chimes, -4 Pristine Talisman

+4 Armored Skaab, +4 Stitched Drake, +4 Deranged Assistant, +4 Civilized Scholar, +3 Geistflame, +1 Silent Departure.


Edit: Oh, and I forgot Forbidden Alchemy. definitely make room for that one if you can. The Skaab Ruinators also, if you're going to try this out, but seeing as it's mythic it might be rough to find them. You'd only need two in your deck though, you can pretty much just use them to replace the murders of crows.

Edit the second: Hmm, I actually think a tuned version of this could be pretty brutal in block constructed... lemme see if I can whip up a list.
__________________
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
- Robert Heinlein

Last edited by Gregness; 01-07-2012 at 06:39 PM.
Gregness is offline Add to Gregness's Reputation   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2012, 07:18 PM   #13
Kerensky287
Just That Good
 
Kerensky287's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,426
Kerensky287 is like Reed Richards, but prettier. Kerensky287 is like Reed Richards, but prettier. Kerensky287 is like Reed Richards, but prettier. Kerensky287 is like Reed Richards, but prettier. Kerensky287 is like Reed Richards, but prettier. Kerensky287 is like Reed Richards, but prettier. Kerensky287 is like Reed Richards, but prettier.
Default

I actually find that Dream Twist, Curse of the Bloody Tome and Desperate Ravings let me mill enough that I never really run out of stuff to flashback. Deranged Assistants are neat, but I don't NEED that extra mill, and I like the fact that Pristine Talismans give me +1 life per turn. It gives me breathing room, whereas Deranged Assistant just brings me closer to the end of my deck.

I'm probably going to ditch the Unwinding Clock plan (much as I like hitting my enemy with Burning Vengeance on his own turn for free), but Back from the Brink is nice in that it basically gives me free access to my graveyard. Without it, most of the cards I mill will be useless; with it, however, I find myself picking up Myrs left and right, which gives me that much more mana with which to land a Devil's Play nuke. I'm finding more and more that Burning Vengeance holds the opponent at bay while I build up the Myrs and land for effective Devil's Play strikes, so I'd rather have mana than milling in this situation.

Civilized Scholar looks really cool, I'm definitely going to look into that. Drawing cards is great, discarding flashbacks is great, but I like the option to just flip him and lay waste, especially if I can bring back the card I used to flip him thanks to Back from the Brink. It's a good fallback in case I can't (or won't) spend a Devil's Play to do the same amount of damage, and it's a nice deterrent too. I'll probably get four.

I just found out today that they run Magic games at my local game store on Fridays and Saturdays (plus casual games on Sundays... but they apparently tend to be Commander and stuff so screw that), so I'll hopefully have results to report against somebody that isn't Blue Illusions by next week.

EDIT: Forbidden Alchemy is pretty cool, I'll probably order a couple. But I've actually found that my current mill rate is perfect, and the difference between Forbidden Alchemy and, say, Desperate Ravings, is that I can't flashback Forbidden Alchemy for the extra damage. It'd be nice to be able to sift out the crucial enchantments as I mill, I guess.

EDIT 2: It makes me sad that the Myr won't be Standard-legal for much longer... I really want to build a deck around those guys.
__________________
People who live in
Glass homes should not throw stones or
Jerk off at daytime

Last edited by Kerensky287; 01-07-2012 at 07:33 PM.
Kerensky287 is offline Add to Kerensky287's Reputation   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2012, 08:16 PM   #14
Gregness
Never give up. Never give in.
 
Gregness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,034
Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know!
Default I ? Deckbuilding

Okay, I whipped up a list real quick after a trip through Gatherer looking at Innistrad cards. Both these lists are for Innistrad Block Constructed, meaning that they contain only tournament-legal cards from the Innistrad block (Innistrad-Dark Ascension-whateverthethirdset'snameis).

Okay, so I found that I didn't really have room for a good burning vengeance gameplan AND enough creatures to make the skaabs worthwhile. So, what I ended up with was two different lists with different takes on blue/red flashback. One uses creatures in the graveyard to fuel a bunch of undercosted blue beaters for the win where the other uses a ludicrous amount of board control spells with flashback paired with Burning Vengeance.

The Skaab List:
60 cards

22 land

4 Sulfur Falls
4 Shimmering Grotto
8 island
6 mountain

18 creatures

4 Armored Skaab
4 Stitched Drake
4 Snapcaster Mage (Deranged Assistant)
4 Civilized Scholar
2 Skaab Ruinator

22 other spells

4 Think Twice
4 Forbidden alchemy
4 Silent Departure
4 Brimstone Volley
4 Devil's Play
2 Grasp of Phantoms

Sideboard

4 Dissipate
4 Blasphemous Act
4 Ancient Grudge
2 Grasp of Phantoms
1 Skaab Ruinator


Okay, so first thing: the Snapcaster Mage I listed? They're like 30 dollars each at the moment. They're ridiculously good in these decks, but the price probably puts it out of reach (for me definitely). So, I've listed a reasonable replacement in parentheses. Now, if you open one in a booster pack, by all means throw that shit in!

The Sulfur Falls give us some flexibility with our mana so that we don't get caught without one of our colors in an emergency. The shimmering grotto serves much the same purpose, with the added benefit that we can use it for black mana to pay for the flashback on our Forbidden Alchemies. The Snapcaster mages mostly give us discounts on flashback costs (sometimes very large ones -looking at you Forbidden Alchemy!-) The snapcaster mage can also let us get some extra milage out of the Brimstone volleys, but even without snapcasters Brimstone is still very good.

The Burning Vengeance List:
60 cards

4 Sulfur Falls
4 Shimmering Grotto
8 island
6 mountain

22 lands

4 Snapcaster Mage (Armored Skaab)

4 creatures.

4 Burning Vengeance
4 Geistflame
4 Think Twice
4 Forbidden alchemy
4 Silent Departure
4 Brimstone Volley
4 Devil's Play
4 Dissipate
2 Grasp of Phantoms

34 other spells

Sideboard

4 Blasphemous Act
4 Ancient Grudge
4 Rolling Temblor
3 Claustrophobia


Same caveat with regards to the Snapcaster applies here. Also, I think that these two lists share enough cards that you could use the sideboard to make a complete transformation from one to the other. However, that'd mean a lot less flexibility to bring specific answers like Blasphemous Act in since you'd need pretty much all 15 slots dedicated to the transformation.
__________________
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
- Robert Heinlein

Last edited by Gregness; 01-07-2012 at 08:19 PM.
Gregness is offline Add to Gregness's Reputation   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2012, 03:41 AM   #15
Gregness
Never give up. Never give in.
 
Gregness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,034
Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know! Gregness INVENTED reputation, you know!
Default

Hey, Kerensky, that Eldritch Assault deck you've got?

Dark ascension previews are out and it looks like you're getting some more neat toys.



EDIT: Also, I'm really loving the top-down designs in this set so far.

Case in point:
__________________
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
- Robert Heinlein

Last edited by Gregness; 01-09-2012 at 03:41 PM.
Gregness is offline Add to Gregness's Reputation   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:47 PM.
The server time is now 12:47:50 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.