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Unread 04-24-2011, 01:32 AM   #21
bluestarultor
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Originally Posted by rpgdemon View Post
I can see some of it. Like, if they have kids, they want to be sure that no matter what happens, they'll be able to secure their future.
"Please! Take the money! It should be worth enough caps to make it worth your while!"


In all seriousness, though, my mom and I agree this is all going to come to a crash soon and the US is going to have an uprising poor vs. rich. Maybe not in the next 20 years, but in terms of human history, this is not sustainable and it will happen not far off from us as far as the history books will be concerned.
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Unread 04-24-2011, 02:42 AM   #22
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I can see some of it. Like, if they have kids, they want to be sure that no matter what happens, they'll be able to secure their future.
Yeah, you can't expect people to be rational about their children. Like, if you've got a situation where you have to kill people to protect the lives of your children, history has shown most parents will think that their child's life is worth at least one other person's life. In some cases two, or ten, or fifty. It's completely unreasonable. And for that reason I don't think "I'm doing this for my children" is a valid defense for a given action or lifestyle choice.

And seriously, there has to be a limit to how much you can justify spending on your family at the expense of the rest of the world. At a certain point the sense of obligation you feel towards those who depend on you should begin to apply at a larger scale than your immediate household. With great piles of money there should come great responsibility. And that point should probably be sometime before you've accumulated more money than three hundred and fifty thousand hypothetical children need to live their entire lives secure in financial independence.

Last edited by Amake; 04-24-2011 at 02:54 AM. Reason: That may be overly bitchy, but keep in mind I'm lashing out at rich people, not at your post.
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Unread 04-24-2011, 02:47 AM   #23
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You will notice that I didn't say that it was or wasn't a valid reason, but simply a reason that they're doing what they're doing that isn't greed. People want to keep their kids secure and safe, and don't think rationally about the fact that they can hit a point where they have enough money, and that there are other kids who are in need of the extra. It's not that they're greedy and want to sit on huge piles of wealth, necessarily, but that they're trying to make it so that their children's futures are safe and just don't think about other stuff.
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Unread 04-24-2011, 09:32 AM   #24
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Default What is there to suggest it isn't just Dragon-like Greed, exactly?

Somehow I don't think multibillionaires are in it 'just 4 teh childrenz'.

"Derp well I want to be a good father but I also want my children to NEVER HAVE TO DO ANYTHING EVER because yknow, fuck responsibility. So I think I'll get ALL THE MONEY for them."
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Unread 04-24-2011, 01:00 PM   #25
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Greed is not necessarily to pursue wealth simply for wealth's sake. Intent to leave/use it for your children is not the same as putting it into the economy or giving it away. You are for all intents and purposes keeping it for yourself.

Caring about your kids is great and understandable, but in this case yeah it is greed to an almost paranoid extent. However, calling them just on hoarding wealth is a bit of misdirected blame. This is where the government should be practicing redistribution, one part of which is taxing the fuck out of the stupidly rich. I really can't blame rich people for hoarding in this system. I CAN however, blame the fuck out of them for continually using that wealth to lobby for the systemic abuse of anyone who isn't at least upper middle class. That's straight up malicious. I can also blame lawmakers for being spineless, greedy, sycophantic assholes with no integrity for continuing to allow this.

And really, if they care about their kids so much, they should be trying to build economies and political systems that aren't going to implode. So I don't think it's so much caring about their kids as it is a narcissistic desire to make the fruit of THEIR loins sit on top of the heap. It tells me that they don't see this thing as their son/daughter who they love and wish success, but as their tiny genetic reincarnation who exists solely as a vessel.
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Last edited by BitVyper; 04-24-2011 at 01:08 PM.
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Unread 04-25-2011, 12:07 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Magus View Post
We can all at least agree on the general sentiment that the 400 billion dollars the U.S. spends annually on defense stuff is one of the major causes of our bloated deficit, along with the Bush tax cuts, the most recent of which will cost us 700 billion dollars in revenue over the next ten years, presuming they keep renewing it every two years by holding everybody else's tax breaks hostage (frankly which we could probably do without, I see little reason in seeing my income tax go down 2% so a bunch of rich people's can go down 10%, especially when the state will just raise my payroll tax to make up for it).
Let's look at all of the spending for a minute, shall we?

War on Drugs - $76 billion

War on terror - 1 trillion

Military spending

I figure these three areas could really use a lot less money.
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Unread 04-25-2011, 02:00 PM   #27
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Anyone with enough money that taxing them is an advisable way to help the deficit and not taxing them is supposed to cause economic stimulus is rich enough that they are likely not dependent on the US economy anymore. Once you hit multibillion you are an idiot if you put all your investments into one market, they don't need to really think about maintaining a sustainable economy because they can always vacate to someplace more stable where they already have a reasonable chunk of their fortune. It is also why taxing them is so difficult, if you pressure them with higher taxes they begin looking for means to evade those taxes either by much larger investment in foreign markets or just general tax loopholes.

Saying it is for their children should not be sympathetic, because that means they are trying to sustain the wealth of their family which in and of itself is a bigger goal than trying to help maintain the US budget. They have more control over their money, and if it was mine I wouldn't want it in the government's hands either. A callous, greedy, and terrible mindset. But one beneficial to self which if you are rich should have been your thought process for quite some time.

Meanwhile cuts should occur. The War on Drugs hasn't been all that helpful on the interior, which has cost us money in manpower, armament, and holding fugitives. And the exterior suffers from a similar problem as the War on Terror in which we are fighting a nearly esoteric enemy that is only understood by the people calling the shots.

Military spending is a difficult hand because doing anything with the military requires that you take into account what current mission objectives are and how much it is going to cost to do them and moreover if the cost of abandoning them is less than that of maintaining them. Because nothing the military does is ever free, even the act of bringing everyone home from Iraq RIGHT NOW would be a logistical nightmare that would require the mind of an Air Traffic Controller just to organize properly. As such before military spending can be reduced we actually have to see if we can afford to reduce it.

Isn't that lovely?
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Unread 04-26-2011, 12:41 AM   #28
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