Dear Cis People

[shiney]

"Dear cis people" is hardly a constructive way to start a dialogue, and peppering the discussion with direct insults toward cis people who do still compromise most of the forum is itself not constructive nor will it result in any kind of receptive audience.

I really thought we were past the system of "insult everyone, then expect them to apologize" but I guess not. I've undergone a lot of effort to understand your world and how people like you feel, but you insulted me too, and everyone else, in your tirades in this thread. I didn't do anything to you, but I'm lumped in.

So frankly, I'm tired of it. I'm tired of feeling like I should feel bad because of what someone else said to you, when I am otherwise an ally and I stand up for trans rights and argue against bigotry. I was less...enlightened in the past, and have tried to make amends, but apparently as far as you are concerned those efforts are worthless and pointless.

This is a problem, for you, for me, and for all members of the community both trans and cis. So long as you continue to generalize, and include people like me who try to be an ally but apparently aren't enough of an ally, then you're going to continue to feel isolated and angry.

I'm sorry that what people said in chat ended up hurting you. Your response, making a public shame thread to insult and belittle cis people, probably ended up hurting more.

I can't wait for the day this forum dies and nobody ever has to deal with pieces of shit like this again.

I don't even know what to say to this because it fills me with pain and rage too, and makes me want to say hurtful things. I'm not going to. But thanks for recognizing the efforts of some of us to do better than we have in the past. Thanks a fucking lot.

[synkr0nized]

Originally Posted by Marc v4.0

Next time don't be a fucking coward

OK

Kim, I think everything is either black or white with you, and whenever something doesn't agree with your point of view it's automatically put into the "cis scum" category.

When you post outright dismissals, don't be surprised when someone returns in kind.



However in so doing I have directly violated the tone and flaming rules of the forum and, as such, the mod staff should act accordingly.

[Kim]

You're a shit ally Shiney

and synk you started off by mocking my post with a trigger joke you were never interested in anything but laughing at the tranny and arguing with me so dont even start

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by shiney

I don't even know what to say to this because it fills me with pain and rage too, and makes me want to say hurtful things. I'm not going to. But thanks for recognizing the efforts of some of us to do better than we have in the past. Thanks a fucking lot.

Like, 99.99% of my indignation with your atrocious post...and I hope you can feel it Shiney, as far as you are physically from me right now...is in you pretending that your precious feelings as a 'reformed' privileged progressive man who intends to be a 'better person' is somehow more important than Kim being free from an oppressive atmosphere of bigotry against her identity.

---------- Post added at 08:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 PM ----------

Originally Posted by synkr0nized

OK
When you post outright dismissals, don't be surprised when someone returns in kind.

I actually thought at first that you were just being dismissive because I didn't know what 'tumblr.txt' referred to.
When I was enlightened on the full context of what you were referencing, jeezus buddy, that's not merely apathetic dismissal, that's outright hostile transphobia.

At least be honest with yourself there.

[akaSM]

WTF is this? I've been on 4chan for a few months and, there's a lot less drama there.

[synkr0nized]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

I actually thought at first that you were just being dismissive because I didn't know what 'tumblr.txt' referred to.
When I was enlightened on the full context of what you were referencing, jeezus buddy, that's not merely apathetic dismissal, that's outright hostile transphobia.

At least be honest with yourself there.

Referencing?

Oh

Holy fuck

"tumblr.txt" is actually a thing and not just me equating Kim's dimissal of cis people with a similar dismissal?




OK, a Google search has shown me a Twitter account with that name that is just as you say.

No words can express an appropriate apology -- I mean, yes, I was being an ass, but I was intending for it to be on the level of that which I was replying to. Instead I have connected to a whole other level.

I've got nothing I can say to make up for that.

[shiney]

You know what I just gave my last fuck.

Peace.

[Solid Snake]

Like, can we walk through all the awful shit buried in Shiney's text here? Because it's an awful lot of really agonizingly ugly shit.

Originally Posted by shiney

"Dear cis people" is hardly a constructive way to start a dialogue, and peppering the discussion with direct insults toward cis people who do still compromise most of the forum is itself not constructive nor will it result in any kind of receptive audience.

1: "Cis people are the majority of people here, therefore you shouldn't insult them, while I'll allow cis people to inadvertently insult trans people all the time because they're a minority here" is the kind of atrocious logic I'd expect on a conservative webforum attacking transgendered individuals for merely existing. Or like, the kind of argument used to justify oppressing anyone who's 'different' from the majority.

2: "You're a minority both in real life and on this forum so shut the fuck up and just accept the fact that we'll inadvertently offend you quite often, what matters is that you understand WE DIDN'T INTEND to hurt your feelings!"
I've seen that logic used before against Token re: race, Pocheros re: sex, and Kim re: transgendered individuals.
It's always fucking atrocious every time.

I really thought we were past the system of "insult everyone, then expect them to apologize" but I guess not. I've undergone a lot of effort to understand your world and how people like you feel, but you insulted me too, and everyone else, in your tirades in this thread. I didn't do anything to you, but I'm lumped in.

3: "NOT ALL CISGENDEREDS!"
Oh fuck my life, this is the exact kind of logic that trips privileged cisgendereds into defending the assholes who just so happen to share their conforming gender identity. (It also trips up heterosexuals into defending bigoted heterosexuals, men into defending rapists and sexual abusers...)

Kim is directing her anger at cisgendereds as a social class, not at you or any other cisgendered person individually. She probably wasn't even angry at POS or Overcast specifically but just recognized that their kind of shitty logic in the forums is often abused by people in privilege. She's reacting to a massive group of people who all are insensitive about an issue they do not understand. SHE IS NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU, SHINEY, SPECIFICALLY, EVEN THOUGH YOU ALSO IDENTIFY AS CISGENDERED.
...Well, until you say stupid transphobic shit, then all the sudden I guess it *does* apply to you, specifically.

So frankly, I'm tired of it. I'm tired of feeling like I should feel bad because of what someone else said to you, when I am otherwise an ally and I stand up for trans rights and argue against bigotry. I was less...enlightened in the past, and have tried to make amends, but apparently as far as you are concerned those efforts are worthless and pointless.

4: Intent is not magic.
INTENT IS NOT MAGIC.
YOU ARE NOT IMMUNIZED FROM CONSEQUENCES OF SAYING SHITTY OFFENSIVE THINGS JUST BECAUSE YOU DID NOT INTEND TO INSULT ANYONE.

Hell, 95% of the most awful things privileged cisgendered individuals do to oppress transgendered individuals in the aggregate is on a subconscious, institutionalized level. It's often not about you intending harm. It's Kim pointing out the harm your objectively awful, subconscious bullshit is inflicting upon her, in hopes that you will stop doing it.

If Kim genuinely thought you WOULDN'T STOP DOING IT because you WANTED TO OFFEND HER ALL ALONG, she would never have created this fucking thread in the first place, right?

EDIT:

Like, let me try to calm down for a second.

The key to social justice issues in the context of this community that's so often missed is that we make it -- myself included, I've done this too! -- all about whether those who've pointed out objectively awful things we've said and done as a result of our privilege hate our guts

Because we privileged people are taking their criticism of our offensive comments as personal attacks
And I've been there too, and I've done that too, it's only natural
But it isn't a fucking personal attack
IT IS NOT A PERSONAL ATTACK, IT IS AN ATTACK AGAINST YOUR PRIVILEGE
At least it isn't until you make it personal by responding as if your honor as a person has been infringed
Then you make that shit personal

[Kim]

just as an fyi like five different trans people other than me have looked at this thread and been absolutely disgusted with synk and shiney et al's behavior just in case you think you're somehow handling trans shit even remotely well. like hell of an ally to get pissy with a trans woman for "generalizing cis people". hell of an ally if the people you're allegedly an ally to think you're basically being the worst.

[shiney]

I don't even care anymore Kim. I'm checked out now. I'm a shit ally, so you won't miss me.

Good luck with your fight, I'll still be supporting the movement, but I will no longer support you.