Here are Eleven Things You Didn't Learn in School

[Packman]

Krylo I love how you play Devil's advocate for 2-3 posts and then change your mind and join up with what everyone else says for the rest of the thread!!! Absolutely brilliant!

I'm going to assume you were intentionally trying to arouse peoples emotions during your first few posts.


Stereotypes:
One of the lessons my high school math teacher attempted to teach our class is that stereotypes are not a bad thing. They are used to give us a general idea of what or who we are facing before we get to that point.

He pointed out the necessity to realize that stereotypes are not absolutes only generalizations, and that they should only be used as precautionaries before we actually got to know what we were dealing with.

I think he had a valid point.

The stereotypes that are evil are racial hatred stereotypes. A large portion of the forum population seem to misguidedly place all stereotypes into the evil category. (Yes, that was a stereotype!)


Winning and Loosing:
Yes their is such a thing as winning and loosing at life. My brother WAS a looser a few years agao, my best friend IS a looser now. I WAS a looser about 4 years agao. The fact is the winners and loosers are determined by everyone around you. Maybe some people can get by with everyone hating their pathetic selves, but the majority of us can not.

To me their is a heirarchy of things that when combined determines if your a winner or a looser.

First of is do you have a soulmate?
How many people are in love with you?
Religion (which is banned so I'm intentionally avoiding things of the banned nature [in this post :P])
Are you happy?
Do you have kids?
How well off are they?

and a long list of things that go with it.

Still, I find that reproducing is very important to me. Enough so that I'd probably trade any physical object that I have for a wife and children.

Next on my list is personal achievement. Did something that I've done created a better world? My 6th and 7th grade teacher retired. THAT MAN created a better world. He gave hundreds of children a better education, a better childhood, and a better start in life. THAT IS A HERO! My hero!

For me I would like to spend my time discovering things that nobody else in this world has thought about. The feeling of bieng the ONLY human bieng alive with a certain knowledge is something I find thrilling.

That is why I'm working: for myself.
When I acheive that personal satisfaction that is when I will be complete, but I know even then I wont stop working because it is mans curse and I wish to fulfil that duty.


Self Achievement:
The whole referance to your grandparents was not to point out the difference between you and your ancestors. The point was to give you the correct point of view on a minimum wage job.

In McLintock John Wayne gave a moral I found very important.
I cant remember it exactly but it goes something like this

I dont GIVE you a job. I dont GIVE you anything. You work for a days wage, and I'll trade you a days work for a days wage then we'll both leave with our heads held high as men.

It was a bit more eloquent, but I dont feel like spending 15 minutes to try and find the spot in the movie where he says it

The moral is very true though. A job is not a hand out, its earned. Thats a very important lesson that I think applies to this case. A Job is an oppertunity not a free handout.

A career is earned and much harder to get than a job is.

Having either is a self achievement and worthy of respect not riducle, so dont bitch about what you've earned. If you want something better go out and GET something better.

As for me:
I was at school from 4:30A.M. for a morning workout until 8:xx P.M. at night when Football and Basketball ended because I didnt want to be a fatass. I got the sixpack and end of senior year I could run a 6 minute mile and bench ~320lb. I also had damn near a 4.0 with ~ a 98% in Physics and Calculous.

Hard work payed off and I acheived something.

Now I'm in college and I have 39 credit hours in on two semesters. Calc II is done, so is Engineering Physics and a lot of other hardass classes. I probably have a 4.0 depending on how I did on my finals.

Hard work payed off and I acheieved something.

This summer I start my job on the 31'st its full time and if I worked year round would be about $30,000, and I did have this job straight out of high school. If their were less Wal-Marts and larger corperations and a lot more small businesses that have HIGH paying unskilled labor jobs than maybe more of us would have them. You know what? I didnt get this job I earned it by beating out several hundred people who applied for it.

So guess what?
Hard work WILL payoff and I will earn something.

On the 6th I start Calc III double pace, which is twice a week for four hours. Thats going to be BITCH'N hard with a full time job, but I want to take it. I am in college because I want to be, not because my dad wants me to be, or for someone else. I am working for myself, for my future! I ENJOY working my ass off! Yes I am a geek and yes I will probably be a lot of peoples boss before I'm done! Hell I'm not just a Geek I'm a super freakn dork! But I'm a sexy one!

Once I find my soulmate I feel that my life will literally be a euphoria; until, I die that is. Still, I dont live for the future! Right now is damn near perfect and I love the present. When people ask me how I am I wanna sceam in their face that life is AWESOME and that I love it! and depending on where I'm at I will!

I have damn near everything I could possibly desire, and God I am thankful that I made the right decisions.

Everything in my life that isnt a necessity is done to better myself! Thats the reason why everything is so perfect right now! If you believe in my opinion and you want that feeling for yourself than just listen to me. Spend every moement doing something to better youself, but dont just do it because you must. Do it because you love it! Right now writing this post I'm doing it because I want better skills as a writer for if I ever have a need to write a book. Before you goto sleep spend an hour or two reading a book. Every morning that you can wakeup an hour or two early and go run or workout! EVERY single person on this earth has the same amount of time. The greatest people in history had the exact same amount of time in one day that you do!

Before Krylo (or someone else) goes and tries to dispute me on some minor insignifigant point in a blantant attempt to prove the fallacies of my philosophy please note this.

A very important lesson in life is that you NEVER get rich for working for someone else! The only way to get ahead in life is to work for youself. By rich I mean happy and fulfilled, and by myself I mean working because I want to, AND I MEAN I want to! Not because I'm some slave to the rich or because I'm "the mans" puppet or any of that CRAP! I work for me; screw you! And by you I mean everyone who is not me!

Overall:
I think that The original writings were designed to hit a few nails in lazy bastard American kids. Even if some were already hammered in I still think it was filled with very important lessons.

And Yes these lessons were to help Bill Gates and other employers control their workforce more efficiently! Its because teaching these rules creates a benifical response for the people teaching them. All of high school is desinged to turn children into willing servants. Your class lessons are/were coordinated to make you more subserviant to the social system. High school is a system of control. Gee if you just realized that now while reading my post I guess your an idiot. If you havent realized it now AFTER reading my post, then I know your a dumbass. Stop bieng one and discern the truth for yourself!

I dont care about you; nobody in the rest of the world cares about you! Except for your mommy, maybe your daddy if your lucky, and the rest of your family if your REALLY lucky: nobody cares about you; unless, you made them care about you.

I'm asking all you jerks out their to go realize you are one, stop bieng one, and go take my advice. Then you can be my friend and someone I care about; until then, leave me the hell alone.

B.T.W. I found a lot of DAMN good posts in here. Thank you guys for trading me some wonderful stories! Well earned men!

[Lucas]

First off, you sounds like a bad motivational speaker...

Second, lets look at some examples of when Work and Success just don't line up:

Paris Hilton.

Well, lets see; she can easily reproduce. If she has kids, they're going to be very well off, she's rich, she can do whatever she wants, and she's having a blast being a ditzy party girl.

Hard work? Nuh uh. Success? I'm sure she's feeling smug.

Alfonse from down the street.
He works 2 8 hour a day jobs, and barely makes enough to pay for his brother's chemotherapy, as well as his alimony payments. Any extra money he earns up is normally gobbled up when he has to repair the storefront of his convinience store (the running of which is one of his jobs).

Hard Work? In spades. Success? Unless he hides his inner contentment with his perrenial frown...

Hard work and success aren't brothers, they're cousins. You can bust your ass every day, and still end up with a life in shambles, just like you can do nothing and have riches thrown at you. The problem people have with the list isn't that its telling kids to shape up: frankly, no one really has said that they shouldn't get a little personal motivation.

The problem is that the motivation isn't directed towards working, its directed towards becoming a cog in a corporate machine. As much as i hate using a phrase like that, its pretty much the lesson that this list gives out.

Okay, so you say that to become rich you have to work for yourself. Fair enough, but did anyone in these previous posts say anything about becoming rich? You change this up by saying that your rich isn't actually being rich, its being happy and fulfilled. It then begs the question: why did you say rich in the first place, and why do you follow all that up with a discussion about "the man", and your work. Are you confusing money with meaning?

Oh my! sounds like someone's been sent through the mind-control high school one too many times! Speaking of which, i had a class in high school taught by a priest about how to evaluate things critically, and the first thing he did was tear apart christianity for everyone, so that they'd realize that religion is just faith and nothing more. Doesn't sound like indoctrination to me.

I'm asking all you jerks out their to go realize you are one, stop bieng one, and go take my advice. Then you can be my friend and someone I care about; until then, leave me the hell alone.

As for this, i suggest you.. um.. pay attention in english class. Insulting your readers makes them far less likely to listen to you, as does having many spelling errors.

The kicker, though, comes to me here:

I have damn near everything I could possibly desire, and God I am thankful that I made the right decisions.

You're in college, give it some time.

[Lockeownzj00]

The stereotypes that are evil are racial hatred stereotypes. A large portion of the forum population seem to misguidedly place all stereotypes into the evil category. (Yes, that was a stereotype!)

You're right in one sense--generalizations and assumptions are needed, it's how we are human and make basic decisions--so I would say generalizations are good, not stereotypes.

Winning and Loosing:
Yes their is such a thing as winning and loosing at life. My brother WAS a looser a few years agao, my best friend IS a looser now. I WAS a looser about 4 years agao. The fact is the winners and loosers are determined by everyone around you. Maybe some people can get by with everyone hating their pathetic selves, but the majority of us can not.

First of is do you have a soulmate?
How many people are in love with you?
Religion (which is banned so I'm intentionally avoiding things of the banned nature [in this post :P])
Are you happy?
Do you have kids?
How well off are they?

Oh my god. This is so typical

Are you seriously trying to pretend like life has a sim meter and you check off things based on your "list of success?" People who have these lists never question their own psychology.

1) Soulmate does not mean anything. it does not have a connotation, it is a misnomer and an empty word. If you mean someone who you "love" "forever" (which is also a flawed concept), then are you trying to propose that one's verall success at life is based on some fucked up standard that they have a "soulmate?" How condescending can you get?

2) "How many people are in love with you?" Is this highschool? Are we ranking up a tally of how many people asked us to the prom? This one doesn't even make sense.

3) I'm not going to start a flame war, but putting religion in this list is ALSO naive. I mean it's like you're taking the Leave it to Beaver "American Dream" and just transcribing it concept-for-concept. I, personally, would say religion is a crutch and even if someone HAD a religion I wouldn't measure their success by that; I wouldn't measure an atheist's atheism as success either, I certainly don't measure my own. It's something you believe in or don't, whether you claim it's truth or lies. It has nothing to do with success.

4) "Are you happy?" The only valid one int he list so far. Yes--Being happy is important. Now again, i wouldn't define it as being successful because sucess is a loaded word and I abhor its usage today. I would say, if you are happy, then you are happy--that's it. That's all you need. You don't need to live up to some false standard.

5) "Do you have kids?" what the jesus is going on?! It's like we went into a time portal to 1955 or something. Since WHEN is the fact that one has offspring ANY sort of measure of ANYTHING? It means you had sex with someone and now you have peopel that you may or may not be responsible for. It has no-thing-to-do-with-success. "How well off are they?" is just a question about parenting.

Still, I find that reproducing is very important to me. Enough so that I'd probably trade any physical object that I have for a wife and children.

Ok, you have a desire--a goal if you will. How is this setting any standard, though?

For me I would like to spend my time discovering things that nobody else in this world has thought about. The feeling of bieng the ONLY human bieng alive with a certain knowledge is something I find thrilling.

This sounded noble at first, but now it just sounds like a secret club that only you're part of and you take pleasure in the fact that no one else is in it and no one else COULD know that they're not in it because you're the only one who knows it exists. I guess I'm saying--naive?

when I will be complete

we are not cyborgs. we are human beings. There is no objectivity. People set "objective" standards for themselves like this, but being humans and being inherently subjective, we can not create anythign truly objective--only ideally objective things. What am I saying? Being imperfect, nothing we can create is perfect--this goes from religion to political idealogy. Only things which can improve in one direction or another.

I dont GIVE you a job. I dont GIVE you anything. You work for a days wage, and I'll trade you a days work for a days wage then we'll both leave with our heads held high as men.

What is with the American, nay, global pride in work? It's like talking about pride and honor is just a metaphorical stroking of your own phallus. "heads held high?" That just sounds nationalistic. Why do people always glorify jobs? If we were perfect creatures, we would all wish we could never work. But we're not. So jobs do exist in a sense--not responsibilities.

Why do people always think we have choice? It's an illusion of choice. People always say "you don't HAVE to watch the commercial" or "you don't HAVE to get the job." Yes, you do! Wage slave or starvation--that's not a choice, that's a threat. This is not a choice, this is a do or die situation, and our...all societies attempt to create this happy vision of capitalism and choices like, "hey you can do whatever you want! You want 5 refridgerators? go for it!"

A job is not a hand out, its earned...a Job is an oppertunity not a free handout.

It is a free handout. They don't owe you anything and you don't owe them anything. You're not special and neither are they--anyone can fill that slot. In minimum wage jobs, its usually the firt midlyl qualified person.

And why do we always glorify the education system? Why don't we analyze why we've set up a losing situation in which you "need" an education in order to succeed? This is beyond, "my grandparents didn't have the chance to go to school." I'm not saying a 20 year old with no experience should just start
doing surgery, but we've created a rat-maze system, much like the 'cog in the machine' lucas mentioned, where once again, if you want a chance at not living in a festering hole, well by-gum, you have to be put through years and years of bullshit.

"I never let my schooling get in the way of my education" -- Mark Twain.

Having either is a self achievement and worthy of respect not riducle, so dont bitch about what you've earned. If you want something better go out and GET something better.

This is the 'poor people should go out and get jobs' argument.

As for me:
I was at school from 4:30A.M. for a morning workout until 8:xx P.M. at night when Football and Basketball ended because I didnt want to be a fatass. I got the sixpack and end of senior year I could run a 6 minute mile and bench ~320lb. I also had damn near a 4.0 with ~ a 98% in Physics and Calculous.

Hard work payed off and I acheived something.

For you personally. The satirical "treatise on the most immature phrase in the english language" on albinoblacksheep comes to mind, where it seems you even consider physical fitness a factor in success. If you want to get into Sea Wolf philosophy we can do that, but I don't think you're trying to. You met a "goal" for yourself. That's good for you. Why would you measure other people by this same goal? I am a stick. I have no muscles. Have I failed at life? You also use high grades in a misguided institution as a measure of success. I still fail to see the connection.

You know what? I didnt get this job I earned it by beating out several hundred people who applied for it.

Hmm, so our democracy is a society of compassion yet you take pride in the fact that you beat down hundreds of other people to get there? The problem is we always view our "successes" as if they were movies, as if we were the underdog and deserve it. You know what every other person is thinking? That they deserve it. And you could go on about "proactive" people, but the point is, this democracy puts an almost sadistic spin on competition.

On the 6th I start Calc III double pace, which is twice a week for four hours. Thats going to be BITCH'N hard with a full time job, but I want to take it. I am in college because I want to be, not because my dad wants me to be, or for someone else. I am working for myself, for my future! I ENJOY working my ass off! Yes I am a geek and yes I will probably be a lot of peoples boss before I'm done! Hell I'm not just a Geek I'm a super freakn dork! But I'm a sexy one!

Because you have decided for yourself that you want to learn Calculus. That's fine. But i just thought i'd point out how many people use their meaningless college achievements to be a contumely. You're all about "planning the future," as if it's the "right way to go." Some people don't plan their future, and they don't orgasm at the thought of how successful they will be in 20 years. You could say, "well, 20 years from now, we'll see who's laughing!" But then, who really was more "successful" by your terms? While that person was happy for 20 years, you buckled down and worked, for a future of happiness. For some reason many people take it as a given that you have to prepare for everything 30 years in advance and everyone who doesn't is naive and immature. The people who don't are the only one being hedonistic--that is, living life.

Once I find my soulmate I feel that my life will literally be a euphoria; until, I die that is.

[Lockeownzj00]

This is just a really naive idea that people have that a) there is a fate b) that love is somehow eternal (despite the subjectivity of humans--that is, temporary pleasures; food, sex, drugs, music, movies, books, basically any stimuli you can list...including love. not that it's any less valid), like it's some otherworldly thing. Man, it almost proves those condescending "don't get married" skits on SNL right! And in a way, they are--marriage and 'finding a soulmate' are another leave it to beaver utopia that don't exist in the way we think they do. Some people figure it out. Most don't.

Right now writing this post I'm doing it because I want better skills as a writer for if I ever have a need to write a book. Before you goto sleep spend an hour or two reading a book. Every morning that you can wakeup an hour or two early and go run or workout! EVERY single person on this earth has the same amount of time. The greatest people in history had the exact same amount of time in one day that you do!

Ever seen the movie Election? Many people think, for some reason, that if you are a jack of all trades, if you're in the science club, math club, chess club, spanish club, school president, football captain, everything, that you are somehow covering more bases and somehow being more POTENTIALLY successful.

A very important lesson in life is that you NEVER get rich for working for someone else! The only way to get ahead in life is to work for youself. By rich I mean happy and fulfilled, and by myself I mean working because I want to, AND I MEAN I want to! Not because I'm some slave to the rich or because I'm "the mans" puppet or any of that CRAP! I work for me; screw you! And by you I mean everyone who is not me!

I am once again inclined to disagree. If you feel you want dominion over what you do, however hierarchical that is (i'm using that in a pejorative sense), that's one thing--but many of the most high paying and cozy jobs are when you're working for other people. You think you're high up? There's always someone else above you--and I say this even if you run your own company. You still rely on many other companies and factors, who, if the situation arised and they stopped cooperating with you, would leave you in shambles. Everyone relies on everyone else, even if they hate to admit it.

I dont care about you; nobody in the rest of the world cares about you! Except for your mommy, maybe your daddy if your lucky, and the rest of your family if your REALLY lucky: nobody cares about you; unless, you made them care about you.

But...but...! What about my soulmate?!??! What will I do without them?

[TheSpacePope]

Wow. Bill Gates. WowWhat a douche He should have let life itself dissillusion those high schoolers, He didn't have to do it himself. If Mr. Diet Douche (bill gates) with the $10 haircut and billions of dollars wanted to scare children about life, he could have just shown them The Ring. What a bunch of crap. I am tired of people saying that you cannot be happy without a huge bank account. I am also tired of people saying that everyone that has a great position in a company/whatever, deserved it. Look at the prez, daddy helped him out on that, and he got to be fucking president. That guy has had it nothing but easy, so not everyone has to work to make it. AND, If he really wanted to warn them, he would have told them never to get a credit card.

I guess that it isn't surprising that Bill Gates is a douche.

POPE OUT :fighter: :bmage:

[Packman]

I love playing devils advocate.

They seemed really mad about my post too!

*Maniacal grin*

Sorry about the spelling and grammer I wrote that last one about 3 A.M.
I'll probably post a real reply to get you even more annoyed in a few days just gimme some time.

Gotta run!

[Meister]

Okay... the last two posts were a bit too spammy. Cut down on that, please.

SpacePope, since you're new, I'll gladly elaborate: Discussion is our local "serious talk over brandy and cigars" room, designed as a place to talk about the more serious things in a calm and rational manner. I'm sure you see what I'm getting at.
And I linked to a page that said the list wasn't by Bill Gates earlier...

[pictish]

The rules are generally right. Just, they only apply to the most money driven of us, I think.

We live in a kind of society that says, yeah, you gotta make money to be someone. Happiness, success, esteem are all directly linked to money here. Money has become the very central pursuit of life in these rules.

I personally work very hard to learn, and intend on going to university and so forth, but unlike most people I know, I'm not doing it to get a degree. I want to do it to better understand the areas I will study. I feel that it's important for everyone to aim to better themselves through education but people who go to school to pass tests and not to learn... something worries me about that.

Now here's where I'm really gonna get lynched - While I know that if I do successfully complete university, I'll be able to make a decent living, I'm still more concerned with happiness of myself and others. If people lived a life in pursuit of happines, instead of a pursuit of money to achieve happiness, maybe we'd have more happy people. Or, folks that don't need to base their lives on rules that say 'Do this for the boss - compromise yourself for money'.

Ah, but then, I feel this has little structure and I'm going off on many unwelcome tangents. I'm sorry.

[Krylo]

To add to what Meister said:

Yes, Space Pope, Bill Gates is a douche, but for totally different reasons. Read a thread before replying. I know in many forums people don't really care if you read a thread first, but here we do. In fact, we get kind of irritated when people don't.

And Packman, as that Shiney said

I've seen a lot of posts lately with "I would say more but I have to do such and such". If that's the case, please wait until you are back from such and such before making your post. It's a little disrespectful to only give a halfassed post and make an excuse.

In a sticky, as well as,

Spam less. This is not a fucking suggestion. Do it or the discussion forum will become a fascist regime of moderation. I do have the ability to turn on moderation for all posts and not allow any to be posted until viewed by a mod or admin.

Don't put me in that position. Cause the likelihood then is that I will only read them once every few days and this forum will become stagnant.

If you're gonna spam, or go way off topic, I'm gonna kick your ass. It's that simple. Cut it out.

And

I am two spam posts from banning people on sight. This discussion forum could be subtitled the Will you please act like a fucking adult forum at this point. Most members who post in discussion act responsible and mature. They post properly, they use proper english (to the best of their ability) and they don't spam. A few newcomers to this forum lately are acting like idiots.

I am not closing the discussion forum and thus punishing the many for the acts of the few. But if this does not stop pronto, and i mean yesterday, offenders are getting banned from discussion forum permanently. The end.

I shouldn't have had to say this after my prior post. Now cut it out.

I'm upping Meister's friendly warning to a full blown one.

Also of note, you're very close to a permanent ban, as that you had a temp-ban four months ago.

I THINK the statute of limitations for the board has kicked in by now, but I could be wrong, and if I am that little bit of spam could mean goodbye.

And, one last bit of modly things

I'm sorry.

Don't be. It was a proper and on-topic post. No reason to apologize for that.

That out of the way:

Krylo I love how you play Devil's advocate for 2-3 posts and then change your mind and join up with what everyone else says for the rest of the thread!!! Absolutely brilliant!

I'm going to assume you were intentionally trying to arouse peoples emotions during your first few posts.

What? No really, what? I never changed my opinion. It was against the thing the whole time. My side just happened to get reinforcements.

I don't have much to say other than that, on topic, unfortunately. I saw your post this morning and thought I'd have to go about refuting it all, but then Locke and Lucas did all that for me... but I still have to wonder what you mean by the devil's advocate thing. I never changed my position. The weight of the arguement merely changed.

Yep, I agree with all of them. I could give a shit less about number 11 though. As it is I don't care about if someone is a "nerd" or not. If that's what they want to be, well that's their own buisness and none of mine. As long as they're not assholes, I really don't care.

Anyways, yeah there are plenty of lessons that you have to go out and learn that you would never know from being in school. The problem is they don't give a shit about the kids, and if you don't believe me go back and look at that burrito topic that was posted a while back. The principle not only expressed no sympathy for the false alarm and sicking the cops on a poor innocent kid, but also how proud she was for overreacting and treating that kid like shit.

[Bosolai]

As for the President thing, although I really dislike G.W. at this point, he did work hard. Sure, he had help from his pop to get his title, but he did a hella lot more work than kings in the monarchy system. G.W. worked his ass off in high school and college (even though he did drugs, but almost everyone has), and used some networking (albeit Daddy) to get his position. I very much dislike the man, but (in my stubborn opinion, at least) he deserves his office.

Back on topic:

When it comes to success, I can see where Packman is coming from. I want children, I want to be popular and have friends, I want to achieve satisfaction from religion. I've even got a rather Faustian hunger for knowledge, and I measure some of my success by how much I've learned. I also think you shouldn't be allowed to take 3rd semester Calculus if you can't even spell it right, but thats another matter. But the main problem I've got with Packman's success measurements is that everyone has a different scale to go by. Personally, mine is:

Am I content or better?
Am I sufficient enough to be content or better until I die?
Am I making the world a better place?

While "the Man" might have it be:

Do I have more money than my business rival?
Am I making enough money right now?
How young is my girlfriend?

And some hobo could have it be:

Am I alive?
Can I keep on living for another month?
Am I healthy?

Its all in perspective. What might be the way you measure success might not be for others. Each o' them big CEO types gets to have a soulmate who cheats, groupies who want his job, a church who loves his money (meant nothing on the religion issue, only on the fact that he is a member of an organization who loves having donations from him), enough money to buy happiness, 6 kids, 4 of which are bastards, and all are doing just fine having their tuneup in the Betty Ford Center. Those "rich" people are far from successful in my book. The mother who's husband died while she was pregnant had nothing to turn thinks she's unsuccessful because even though she have a job and can support a family, while her daughter loves her and no effort goes unappreciated, she doesn't make 100k a year and thinks its needed cause she read these 11 rules oh-so-long ago. To me, that would be success, but not in the eyes of that woman who thinks she screwed up and could have so much more.

That, and number 11 also bugs me. Most nerds don't have the confidence they need to get to be controlling business-types (not the ones I know, anyway). Only the arrogance. I'm a nerd myself, but I've just been employed with a sweet job as an underpaid actuary, but I love my job anyway because I'd do it for free. Now, I've got a friend who is über-popular (student body president this year) that wants to be president some day, and I know he's gonna work hard enough that he might very well stand a chance. He is by no means a nerd, but some day he's gonna be this country's boss.

[Lockeownzj00]

G.W. worked his ass off in high school and college (even though he did drugs, but almost everyone has)

Once again I'm quite shocked at the bias against drugs. Why is smoking a substance or insufflating a substance in order to change the state of your mind for a certain amount of time contradictory to working hard? Even if the concept of "working hard" itself is kind of flawed? He didn't work his ass off. He's not a "regular guy." He's not a "cowboy." There is no such THING as family values. He wants you to believe he's something hes not--like most politicians.

I want to achieve satisfaction from religion. I've even got a rather Faustian hunger for knowledge...

Isn't this an oxymoron of sorts? :P

Speaking of family values, a lot of those are incorporated in the list--you would all do yourselves good by watching Penn and Teller's Bullshit, Episode 3x02, family values. Lots of insight.

[Bosolai]

The drug thing was merely me trying to say "don't throw the 'he did drugs' arguement" The whole G.W. rant was just saying he worked hard to get his title, not just having daddy do all the work.

As for the Faustian thing, its only an oxymoron if I define "satisfaction from religion" as "satisfaction through Christianity" which I'm pretty sure I didn't do.

And if the Family Values thing was aimed at my post, I wasn't intending to use family values as a general measurement of success. My lists for success are just my list and the lists I'd imagine others would have.

Unlike the writer for these rules, I don't have hours upon hours to spend thinking about what my work implies. I'm also clearly not getting paid for it. So if you think I'm implying something, don't. Cause I'm not. I don't have the time nor incredible motivation to seriously consider all the possible ways my opinions can be interpreted, so I tend to be very blunt.

[Lockeownzj00]

What I meant with the religion thing is, the search for knowledge and satisfaction through religion aren't compatible, that, through the search for knowledge, one would realise it is futile to try to achieve satisfaction through religion; if one is truly knowledgable they would shed their religious beliefs.

it was a condescending atheist remark.

anyway, i think by now we've all made it clear that it was a shoddily made list and to be really poignant you have to think things out. i think that's the point--the list WASN'T well thought out, at all.

[Meister]

*ahem* Let's not get into religion, okay?

Why not? I'm sure if God has a problem with the discussions, He'll solve it his way. Fortunately, I'm wearing non-conducting underpants.

This list is clearly on the surface a speech, a rhetoric, designed to be spoken by one person to many. It is meant to spark ideas, to get people thinking, maybe honestly, about their lives and their futures. I'm reasonably sure he didn't mean for people to get into such a bitter argument, but more of a spirited conversation, with ideas being exchanged peacefully and reasonably.

I think all of you need to read Rule #0 again.

[Mashirosen]

Goddamn are you dumb, Wombat. Don't bother responding to that e-mail I sent you, you clearly just do not get it. So much for that "so shockingly high I can't possibly reveal the actual number for fear of inducing seizures in children, pregnant women, and the elderly" IQ number -- you can't even figure out BANNED = I NO COME TALKEY HERES NO MORE.

Your original ban was only for 21 days, but you just had to 'tard it up and make it permanent by refusing to take a hint. I felt a little bad for you at first, but you've shown yourself to be such a shrieking, stubborn idiot about all this that it's all flown out the window.

GO AWAY. If we hadn't banned you, you probably would've ended up being ostracized out of here anyway because you made yourself hugely unpopular with your condescending, arrogant attitude. You don't remember a poster named Otaku Son because he carried on in exactly the same way and was pretty much run out of here on a rail when the other posters here got fed up enough with his crap. Maybe we should've just let that happen instead, although at this point it seems hard to believe that even total rejection on that scale would've gotten it through to you that YOU ARE A POMPOUS GASBAG INCAPABLE OF ADMITTING HIS MISTAKES. Go on believing you were only banned because of the comforting fiction of a mod with a grudge, whatever it takes to keep that Macy's parade balloon ego of yours afloat. I picture it as the Comic Book Store Guy from the Simpsons, but other artistic interpretations are more than welcome.

Closing.

Edited to add: just to make sure the rest of you understand what I'm talking about and what WanderingBoximaxio did to wrench my nuts so bad, here's RaiRai breaking it on down for you.