Peer pressure and conformity

[CrazyBen]

Yeah, I notice that the "nonconformists" tend to display the least amount of inter-group differentioation of apperance, dress, and behaviour. Or, in short, "Ever notice that all the nonconformists look the same?" Seriously, I once sat and listened to my friend Mark explain to a preppy girl that she was being a "sheep" while he wearing a shirt that about 30 other people in the school were wearing the same day. And it almost goes without saying that noone was wearing the same shirt as the preppy girl (that I saw anyway).

[MasterOfMagic]

And yes, MasterOfMagic, many 'friends' became former friends of mine by telling me they think I'm a 'sinner' for not really having a religious belief[

Well, if they're christian, you can at least know that they believe they're sinners too. I'd probably say something about that to them, next time.

or because I don't objectify women, therefore I couldn't be a 'real man,'

This one I've experienced. But, its just been enough to get me some teasing about being gay, never been something that keeps them from liking me.

There's this kid in one of my classes, and he's a bit "wierd" by normal standards. This class is a group of...4 now. They tease each other, not actually to hurt each other, but just playing around. But the kid I'm talking about freaks out whenever anyone starts in on him, getting really mad, and up in their faces and such. This just makes them pick on him more, because they can't understand just why he gets that pissed off over every little comment. He can't take a joke, and so they push him more, because he makes it more fun. If he wouldn't get worked up about it, they'd leave him alone.

I wonder if your like that kid, from what you described. Because, lets be frank, everything you listed (except for the religion and being non-assholish towards other sexual orientations things, but that can't be helped) is nothing serious at all. Nothing I can see stirring up "hatred" towards you (unless they're a bunch of psychos that you should be avoiding anyways...). So, I have to wonder if its your reactions that are causing it.

[bolevar321]

Originally Posted by Premonitions

Sadly, I despise the people who continuously rant aginst the"confromists" first nothing anyone does is original becasue just about everything "confromists" and "nonconformists" base themselves off of are things done by groups of people.

Secondly, the more you hate them(conformists) the more you struggle to be not like them. Not only conforming to a sterotype of "outsider" but also conforming to whatever group you think makes you like that.

Why are things popular? because people like them. Why do people like certain things? because something about it appeals to them. They are'nt doing soemthing for the hatred of something else.And they are'nt doing it because everybodyelse is doing it.

If you want to pierce every other inch of your body, cool, don't forget to get at least one that glows. But do it because you enjoy it(what the hell's wrong with you?) not because you want to be "different" If you are'nt a "confromist" then why the hell do you care what they do? do you and they will do them.

As an example, Nearly everyone in my school lies "dirty south" style rap, me I mostly listen to reggae and some alternative Hip-Hop, not only that but I hate most of the previously mentioned southern rap. I think it is ignorant and ruins the original message of a great pro-black, empowering movement of music and culture(hip-hop) I understand why everybody else like it tough, They think like that. The msuic is from their people. All of this comes from their personal experiences and since savannah georgia is about 75 percent black, and most of them are poor to lower middle class, they all share simlar experiences and thus simlar atttiudes. On the opposite spectrum, a lot of my "friends" (if your a human beig, you're probably not my friend, nothign personal, I can still like you and hate you at the same time) are, varying degrees of emo-goth-metal-J-pop types. with spriklings of hi-hop and punk thrown in. E few of them are constantly griping about"Preps" WE ARE IN A 95% BLACK SCHOOL! AND WE KNOW FIVE WHITE KIDS! WHAT "PREPS"?" unfortuantely in addition to not being able to accurately explain to me what a prep is, they refuse to accept the obvious. * exhales* that's all for now

<Buzzer!> Wrong! Not everybody bases themself off of things. I prefer to think of myself as non-conformist. The true non conformist neither dresses specifically to conform, nor to spite the conformists. I dress for comfort. I have no piercings because I have no desire to get them. I listen to any music, as long as it's well made. As for your friends, well, tell them that they're only exploiting a fashionable alienation, which, in a sense, makes them preps themselves.

[Premmy]

What meant by base themselves off of is that the things people consider that make themconformist or nonconformist aren't "original" or "unique" as such concepts rarely exist anymore.If you are atrue "nonconformis" you probably wouldnt think in terms of Conformists and Nonconformists because if you were really doing things because you just wished to, ou would'nt have any toughts for what others did or what they thought. You'd do and wear/listen, to what you d because you like them. I don't ear what I do because I'm trying to be different, hell it's not that idfferent from the standard ttire for someoen of my demographic, save for the quality, because I can't(And would'nt care if I could) afford the name brands that most of the people I know find so important in clothing. As for music, I like th feelngs of power, and pride in regage, as well as the fact that hearing from a group f people who have it worse then me n terms of poverty and oppresion help me view my situations with a different perspective. I dslke pop/southern rap for it's lack of these things.

[bolevar321]

Originally Posted by Premonitions

What meant by base themselves off of is that the things people consider that make themconformist or nonconformist aren't "original" or "unique" as such concepts rarely exist anymore.If you are atrue "nonconformis" you probably wouldnt think in terms of Conformists and Nonconformists because if you were really doing things because you just wished to, ou would'nt have any toughts for what others did or what they thought. You'd do and wear/listen, to what you d because you like them. I don't ear what I do because I'm trying to be different, hell it's not that idfferent from the standard ttire for someoen of my demographic, save for the quality, because I can't(And would'nt care if I could) afford the name brands that most of the people I know find so important in clothing. As for music, I like th feelngs of power, and pride in regage, as well as the fact that hearing from a group f people who have it worse then me n terms of poverty and oppresion help me view my situations with a different perspective. I dslke pop/southern rap for it's lack of these things.

Not quite true. A "nonconformist" can still see conformity, but yes, as you pointed out, wouldn't care. I like some music that the masses like. I won't deny myself anything simply for the sake of staying individual. Nor will I concern myself with fitting in. Your definition of nonconformity is almost right. As for your tastes in music, that's fine. And yes, I too also find the "popular" clothes to be expensive. I usually wear particularly comfortable Wal-mart clothes.

[akiasura]

Well, I would like to point out that it is true, Nonconformists are a group of people, same as anything else. It's just that your group isn't in, although many Emo kids claim to be nonconformist and they are definatly the most popular thing in America right now. Which strikes me as really quite cute. The little kids can almost think!

Really, you all belong to groups. I, for example, am I nerd. I wear nerdy clothes, I do nerdy things, and I tend to get along with nerdy people more then any other. I accept that I am a nerd. I do break some nerdy stereotypes however. I'm a bit of a playboy, I remain quite physically active, and I do a lot of partying. However, I do belong to a group that. That does not define me in the sense that once you hear the word "Nerd" you know my life story, but if someone asks me "What are you into?" I usually respond "Oh I'm a nerd" before going into detail.

You'll find that, in fact, most people (if not all) do belong to a group no matter how small. This is mainly due to two reasons, one which I know was brought up and one I don't remember being brought up, but if I'm wrong please point it out.

The first is that indeed, most thoughts are non-original. You looking at a group of people and calling them conformists makes you a rebel. It also makes you a goth, and emo, since all three of those sub cultures claim to be non-conformist in any way, shape, or form. I always wondered how they managed to do that with a straight face, while shopping at hot topic, but nonetheless, they do make such claims.

The second is the simple fact that no man is an island. Everyone wants to belong to a group, because mankind is a social creature, similar to a wolf or dolphin that way. That is why we seek friendship, clubs, school, goverment, really much of human actions and emotions is based upon the need to belong.

Since it seems the "normal" group did not accept you, you wish to form your own group of "nonconformist" who hate on the group that spurned you. Indeed, why else come to a online forum, in a forum area not even meant for your rant, and make such complaints and observations? The only reason is for acceptance and the validation of your claims.

I guess, in the end, my point is thus

"Make sure the Shadow you chase is not the one you cast"
-Richard Rahl

[Robert Paulson]

Originally Posted by MasterOfMagic

Well, if they're christian, you can at least know that they believe they're sinners too. I'd probably say something about that to them, next time.

This one I've experienced. But, its just been enough to get me some teasing about being gay, never been something that keeps them from liking me.

There's this kid in one of my classes, and he's a bit "wierd" by normal standards. This class is a group of...4 now. They tease each other, not actually to hurt each other, but just playing around. But the kid I'm talking about freaks out whenever anyone starts in on him, getting really mad, and up in their faces and such. This just makes them pick on him more, because they can't understand just why he gets that pissed off over every little comment. He can't take a joke, and so they push him more, because he makes it more fun. If he wouldn't get worked up about it, they'd leave him alone.

I wonder if your like that kid, from what you described. Because, lets be frank, everything you listed (except for the religion and being non-assholish towards other sexual orientations things, but that can't be helped) is nothing serious at all. Nothing I can see stirring up "hatred" towards you (unless they're a bunch of psychos that you should be avoiding anyways...). So, I have to wonder if its your reactions that are causing it.

Concerning your questions, the kids who stopped liking me because I didn't share their religious beliefs were setting a bad example for Christians, but that's their problem. It's too bad, I've known a few great people who were very devoted to their faith, Christians included. As for the nerd types who stopped liking me because I wasn't an anime fan, yeah, they were psychotic, but again, that's their problem. The kid you mention does sound like me . . . when I was like seven to eleven years old. I used to over-react whenever anyone tried to put me down, but when I got into my teen years, I learned to keep calm, and it's helped. All those other things I mentioned in my initial post, all those other quirks, those weren't necessarily from friends or anyone like that. When I was in school, and there was free time, kids who were strangers would start talking to me, but when they found out about my quirks, they'd stop being friendly because I wasn't what they expected me to be. Not always, but many kids nonetheless.

Truth be told though, this whole me being outcasted hasn't been a problem for nearly two years, not since I graduated from high school. I started thinking about this subject again because I recently enrolled in a local junior college, and I'll be amongst people other than family and close friends once more. Given my history, it's not inevitable, but it's possible that many people I may meet will shun me all because I'm not what they expect of me. Regarding the other posts I've seen, no, I'm not one of those, "Burn all conformists!" types. There are a few people like that out there, and they annoy me too. And no, I'm not branding all people who disagree with me as 'conformists.' I've come to realize that if everyone I know started thinking like me, even I would find that pretty frightening. We are all unique individuals, yes, just some of us are more, unique, I guess. Still, like I said before, the people who stopped being my friends, it was usually not a case of I wouldn't get along with them, but rather, they wouldn't get along with me. I'm very accepting of other's viewpoints, but many people my age aren't. In my first post, I said I was from California. I have to wander, this issue of being rejected just because I'm different, is it a local issue? Have I just had a bad run of luck through my life?

And yes, akiasura, I realize a place like the NPF is not an ideal setting for outlining one's social issues. Thing is, I don't post on any other online forums, and I was wandering if other fellow forumers could relate to my (hopefully former by now) predicament. From what I've seen, most forumers don't, but a few do. Again, I apologize if I came off sounding much more bitchy than I usually do in my previous posts, but if there's one thing I learned from this thread I made, it's that this subject is a lot more complex than I originally thought.

[Lockeownzj00]

Why are things popular? because people like them. Why do people like certain things? because something about it appeals to them. They are'nt doing soemthing for the hatred of something else.And they are'nt doing it because everybodyelse is doing it.

You're kind of kicking Psychology in the balls here. Not in a good way, like, "yeah, you did it!" More like, just oversimplifying things. Example: The Abilene Paradox.

WE ARE IN A 95% BLACK SCHOOL! AND WE KNOW FIVE WHITE KIDS! WHAT "PREPS"?"

How does being black make you "not preppy?" It's about context. If you are in a social structure in which blackness is the norm, yes, they could, potentially, be the "preps."

I agree that most rants against conformity are shallow, specifically because they are broad. But I congratulate the line of thought--I congratulate the cynicism, because there are real concepts and real issues beyond the horizon. Conformity is the sudden lightbulb in a teenager's head that something is terribly wrong. Many don't articulate it well. But those who observe it effectively will, ideally, move on to think and discuss the issues that relate to peer pressure and conformity (all things have roots in such concepts--religion, politics, etc).

The true non conformist neither dresses specifically to conform, nor to spite the conformists. I dress for comfort.

I would consider myself, in a loose sense of the word, a 'non-conformist.' It's merely an adjective, however. You seem to take it like it's an epic battle of good and evil. I definitely don't follow traditional standards, but I dress for aesthetics. I believe certain things have an appeal to them and enjoy their public display. Clothing is one of the most fascinating art forms, and can be everything from completely disgusting to totally awesome. Kind of like, well...anything.

I usually wear particularly comfortable Wal-mart clothes.

This is what I mean by "more important issues." So you're a non-conformist because you don't wear Abercrombie and Fitch...and yet you support a conglomerate like Wal Mart. Where's the consistency?

[Mirai Gen]

Originally Posted by CrazyBen

Yeah, I notice that the "nonconformists" tend to display the least amount of inter-group differentioation of apperance, dress, and behaviour. Or, in short, "Ever notice that all the nonconformists look the same?"

I'm so nonconformist, I'm going to conform to nonconformity by conforming.

You just got goth served.

No, seriously, it's hard to be 'unique' enough as it is, now we have people who are either not unique, and unique, and both are shunned by a collective group of people for being a "Conformist."

The conformist arguement is weak, because it's hard to place accurately without being overused. The guy who hates poetry up until the hot girl says, "I love poetry." and then he says, "Me too!"

Okay, maybe that's just your penis talking. But still. If you sway your vote just because a number of people that's more than 0 says, "But I don't," that's conformity.

[Premmy]

You're kind of kicking Psychology in the balls here. Not in a good way, like, "yeah, you did it!" More like, just oversimplifying things. Example: The Abilene Paradox.

well I was aware of that, although I generally just had a vague idea of the specifics. But I think you'll agree that for the most part, people do things because they like them.

How does being black make you "not preppy?" It's about context. If you are in a social structure in which blackness is the norm, yes, they could, potentially, be the "preps."

ahh but that's the thing, if they were arguing agains't the typical "dirrty south" behavior, maybe I'd agree, but they are literally attacking the "Prep" subculture. An aquantance named mike said he sometimes shops at the gap. This led to a thirty minute group rant about how the gap is a prep store and how, for the upteenth time, preps are evil.

I agree that most rants against conformity are shallow, specifically because they are broad. But I congratulate the line of thought--I congratulate the cynicism, because there are real concepts and real issues beyond the horizon. Conformity is the sudden lightbulb in a teenager's head that something is terribly wrong. Many don't articulate it well. But those who observe it effectively will, ideally, move on to think and discuss the issues that relate to peer pressure and conformity (all things have roots in such concepts--religion, politics, etc).

nothing to add to that