The UFO discussion thread

[Satan's Onion]

Originally Posted by pictish

*waits for Satan's onion's Rimmer reference*

Well, see, now you've gone and made it a challenge.

Now, I don't recall where I heard/read/whatevered it, but I remember a quote from I think Carl Sagan, the gist of which was that if there were extraterrestrial beings trying to get our attention, we'd know already; 'cos they'd of probably done something huge and obvious, like land a fleet of ships in front of the White House, or leave a giant flaming bag of poo in Greenland, or break two people's legs and finish a jigsaw* or something. (Obviously that's not verbatim.)

Or else maybe extraterrestrials avoid us, y'know, 'cos we're us? We humans don't have the best track record in terms of dealing with "new friends from faraway places". We had (arguably still have, maybe) this nasty habit of trying to subjugate/destroy new peoples we meet and steal their stuff.

*Okay, here goes: Breaking your leg hurts like hell, OK? "Hell." They do it below the knee, "low." "Hell-low," get it? They do it twice--twice, two. "Hello to." And the jigsaw must mean "you." "Hello to you." Well, I had to get it in somewhere.

Originally Posted by Nique

Calvin? Or Hobbes?

I think it was Calvin, but don't quote me.

[Staizer]

I think the most interesting assumption being made by people these days is the assumption that life has to start on another planet the same way it did on ours.

Who is to say that intelligent life can't evolve on the sun? As long as atoms attain for higher order (I.E electrons, protons, neutrons < atoms < Molecules < protein chains and carbon rings) what is to stop them from forming sentient life somewhere along the way in most conditions? Assuming that sentient life has to be the same as it is here is merely an assumption.

If this is the case, that life can evolve almost anywhere, then that means there very well could be more life in the universe than we can imagine.

[Nique]

As long as atoms attain for higher order...

Maybe I'm not right, but don't certain conditions have to be met for this to happen? The sun is not considered an ideal place of life the same reason 'Death Valley' isn't - Namely, the heat?

Assuming that sentient life has to be the same as it is here is merely an assumption.

Even animals on earth built for hot and rugged conditions don't do very well in temperatures going into the ka-jillions. I don't think is as much of a stretch as you'd like to think to say that another planet that can contain sentient life would be similar to earth, and... um... not the sun.

[Staizer]

forgive me for using an exaggerated case to make a point (I do seem to remember people making this mistake before on the boards as well though), but my point still stands. Assuming that life must come from an "earth-like" planet is excluding all the forms of sentient life that may very well NOT need the things that we do to live. Since the only type of life we ever know developed is our own, that is what we assume all life will be like. It very well may not be that way. So the UFOs we have supposedly seen may well not even know that we ARE life... They may not be able to even tell that we are there...

[Fifthfiend]

Originally Posted by Staizer

I think the most interesting assumption being made by people these days is the assumption that life has to start on another planet the same way it did on ours.

Who is to say that intelligent life can't evolve on the sun? As long as atoms attain for higher order (I.E electrons, protons, neutrons < atoms < Molecules < protein chains and carbon rings) what is to stop them from forming sentient life somewhere along the way in most conditions?

Among other things, inasmuch as I know anything about it, the sun really isn't somewhere you get atoms developed into higher-order organization. It's pretty much all hydrogen, yes?

I mean assuming such a thing as star-life could be possible, it'd have to be fundamentally different from us all the way down to the level of atomic structure, for it to happen.

[Bells]

Sorry to bring it up, but its pretty much a fact that if we DID discover alien life, even if it looked 100% like us, a few things like some religions (most) and beliefs would... pretty much... implode/explode/implode again...

And dont forget the hate... there will always be people on alabama ready to hate...

[TheSpacePope]

I mean assuming such a thing as star-life could be possible, it'd have to be fundamentally different from us all the way down to the level of atomic structure, for it to happen.

I think that that was staizer's point. I mean really, The idea that Nucleotides on a carbon Skeleton makes up all life in the universe is not only vain bvut foolish.
What about silicate based lifeforms, they could withstand massive temperature differentials.
Even something created out of an element that we are not even aware of is a possibility.

But we may find out. clicky. Clicky 2. clicky 3.

So there are several sample retrieval missons that we may find out a bit more about that shit.

[GoeTeeks]

I've just had a thought about the whole "not messing with history" part. Mostly, I just thought of what we'd do if we discovered life on another planet first, and constructed a craft and flew out to it. Then what if that planet wasn't developed enough to do interplanetary space travel yet. Do you really think we, given our history, urge to make history, and urge to satisfy curiosity, would simply back off for several hundred/thousand years and let them develop?

I guess it'd be different if we were the first "other" planet with life discovered or if we were one in several hundred.

[Dragonsbane]

Originally Posted by GoeTeeks

I've just had a thought about the whole "not messing with history" part. Mostly, I just thought of what we'd do if we discovered life on another planet first, and constructed a craft and flew out to it. Then what if that planet wasn't developed enough to do interplanetary space travel yet. Do you really think we, given our history, urge to make history, and urge to satisfy curiosity, would simply back off for several hundred/thousand years and let them develop?

I guess it'd be different if we were the first "other" planet with life discovered or if we were one in several hundred.

Does this explain the Prime Directive? Some very wise fictional character realized we shouldn't interfere, but want to, and made a very wise decision.

[Staizer]

My guess is that the "prime directive" came after several catastrophes of actual interference.

The aliens tried to help several races, and each time the knowledge led to their early agressive outward push, or the destruction of their planet, or something a little less violent, maybe they became too overwhelmed to think and died of starvation.

The way I think of it, is that if we were to recieve technology that we had no clue of HOW it worked, we would abuse it much more than if we recieved technology we understood. Imagine if you will, the Romans recieving the nuclear bomb with no real warning of what would happen afterward and no way to detect nuclear fall out and such afterward.

edit: wow, I just sounded like I actually believed the prime directive existed... creepy. My point is that non-interference would really only be in effect if an experienced alien were to contact us.