Danish School girls Strip for teachers!

[adamark]

Originally Posted by Mannix

The expression of the mild violent tendencies are what sports are for. But anything taken to the extreme - such as out-right brawling - is unhealthy. These kids should be allowed to kiss, write love notes, hold hands, etc etc etc (in my experience we were) but a striptease is to appropriately expressing one's sexuality in a school as beatings are to sports. (Most of the injuries in sports are due to accident if I'm recalling my statistics correctly, Fifth.) There's a time and a place for just about everything, and part of being an adult is knowing when something is inappropriate. Throwing yourself on the ground and screaming/thrashing your arms like a wee baby, for instance, is not a good way to express anger or frustration (hilarious though it may be).

So you are arguing that anything taken to an extreme is unhealthy, but who determines what is extreme? To me, a strip tease is harmless fun, while someone else might advocate 99 lashes in the public square. Everyone has their limit, why should we accept yours over theirs?

You also say that there is a time and place for everything, and that part of being an adult is to know when something is appropriate or not. But this school in Denmark isn't run by children, it's run by adults. You are one adult disagreeing with an apparent organization of adults. Not only that, but you are condescending your fellow adults by suggesting that they are children who were too immature to realize that what they allowed was inappropriate. Very simply, you are engaging in ethnocentrism.

There is not 1 universal human law that determines what is or is not appropriate. Part of being an adult is not only learning your culture's rules, but also deciding for yourself what the rule should be. You should know this pretty well, as a teacher in South Korea. Not only did you have to learn their rules, but you also had to decide what you could personally allow in the classroom and where you drew the line. This is the distinction between the social and personal spheres.

Maybe, in parts of Denmark, or maybe at just one school with a distinct organizational culture in Denmark, it's uniquely not an inherent problem to strip for your teachers at some point near the end of your last year there.

[Nikose Tyris]

Well, there are a FEW universal laws out there, adamark- I don't think anyone would advocate pedophilia, for instance. (Except the pedophiles themselves, obviously.) It isn't appropriate for a child of, I dunno, let's say 8 years old, to have sex with, let's say a 40 year old man.

A playful striptease? nothing overtly wrong with that, that I can see- Although for people in a position of power, to be viewing their underlings performing a strip tease, I can see where it could feel like the kids were coerced into doing it. The article seems to state that the kids did this all themselves as a student organised event, though.

[Meister]

Originally Posted by Nikose Tyris

Although for people in a position of power, to be viewing their underlings performing a strip tease, I can see where it could feel like the kids were coerced into doing it. The article seems to state that the kids did this all themselves as a student organised event, though.

It might certainly seem that way to an outsider. But what does that matter? No ones quality of life will decrease because some people on the other end of the world do something harmless that he just doesn't like.

I stand by my point it's harmless until evidence to the contrary comes up, by which I mean nothing less than a student or teacher being seriously bothered by it.

See, in the end, if there's honestly no harm done to anyone, this just is not our business.

[Mannix]

Originally Posted by adamark

So you are arguing that anything taken to an extreme is unhealthy, but who determines what is extreme? To me, a strip tease is harmless fun, while someone else might advocate 99 lashes in the public square. Everyone has their limit, why should we accept yours over theirs?

You also say that there is a time and place for everything, and that part of being an adult is to know when something is appropriate or not. But this school in Denmark isn't run by children, it's run by adults. You are one adult disagreeing with an apparent organization of adults. Not only that, but you are condescending your fellow adults by suggesting that they are children who were too immature to realize that what they allowed was inappropriate. Very simply, you are engaging in ethnocentrism.

There is not 1 universal human law that determines what is or is not appropriate. Part of being an adult is not only learning your culture's rules, but also deciding for yourself what the rule should be. You should know this pretty well, as a teacher in South Korea. Not only did you have to learn their rules, but you also had to decide what you could personally allow in the classroom and where you drew the line. This is the distinction between the social and personal spheres.

Maybe, in parts of Denmark, or maybe at just one school with a distinct organizational culture in Denmark, it's uniquely not an inherent problem to strip for your teachers at some point near the end of your last year there.

I really dislike cultural relativism. Just because it's 'part of somebody's culture' doesn't mean that it's a great idea or that we as individuals should encourage it. Every culture has something bad about it. I'm against the part of American culture that values athletic prowess over just about anything. I'm also very, very against the element in some African cultures that promotes female genital mutilation.

As for myself in Korea, Korean educational culture allows for heavy corporal punishment. I have never and probably will never strike one of my students, regardless of what culture says it's OK to do.

Keeping an open mind is important to be sure, but if there's something going on in a culture that I would never want to happen to me or my (theoretical) children I think its safe to say that it's an idea worth examining more closely for merit. Traditions are not automatically sacrosanct by virtue of their having happened before.

Originally Posted by Meister

It might certainly seem that way to an outsider. But what does that matter? No ones quality of life will decrease because some people on the other end of the world do something harmless that he just doesn't like.

I stand by my point it's harmless until evidence to the contrary comes up, by which I mean nothing less than a student or teacher being seriously bothered by it.

See, in the end, if there's honestly no harm done to anyone, this just is not our business.

I agree with the bold part more or less, harm or no harm. I in no way advocate the invasion and deculturalization of Denmark. However, I don't believe that precludes academic debate. And lack of physical harm doesn't mean there's no psychological trauma - who can say what an event like this does to a young woman's body image or her view of herself as more than meat?

[Darth SS]

As a result of THAT, they're more prone to violent behavior and, though I hate the phrase, it is, indeed, more healthy to 'let boys be boys' and get into the occassional fist fight than it is to keep them from ever doing it.

Thirdly, not only is it a good way to release aggression, it's actually a bonding experience for many young men. Partaking in their violent urges together can bring them together.

The expression of the mild violent tendencies are what sports are for. But anything taken to the extreme - such as out-right brawling - is unhealthy.

I felt those three quotes were the best summation of the argument I was about to comment on.


Violence isn't as bad as parents and advocates and some politicians want it to be. Case in point; Every year my school has a seven game "Teachers vs Students" series in hockey and then lacrosse. I was in both series, as a goalie and then a defenceman. Now, anyone will tell you that those are violent sports. They were good for student bonding.

Thus far, the arguments have not disagreed. Now they will.

During the course of the hockey series, there was three or four fights, and one line brawl that culminated with me going toe-to-toe with my physics teachers, both us thrashing about in our goalie gear, and eventually 'ol Mr. Dickie going down with blood streaming wildly out of his nose. The video used to be on YouTube.

During the lacrosse series, I alone actually had six fights, three of them in one game. Most of them were against different teachers, but I also had a rematch against my physics teacher and handilly won it.

These weren't unhealthy exercise.

The teachers were taught respect for us, for our character and our resolve. They don't fear us now. They don't now think we're violent hooligans. They think that we obey the code of "You fuck with my team, you fuck with my fists."

We don't think less of our teachers. We don't feel emboldened.

It was a beating. It was a brawl. It didn't do anything bad. An appropriately released line brawl was just as good for us as learning to shut up.

By that logic, to me, an appropriately released strip-tease competition should have the same good effect for sexuality.

[Lord Setheris]

Better idea.

Let these and all other stripteases go on, because as a final fantasy loving, world of warcraft playing, fantasy book writing, legend of zelda obsessed, samus fan, that is all I'm ever going to see.