In my creation of a World of Darkness RP... - Page 18

Dante · 04-15-2004, 01:47 AM

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So that's why the earthbound ones are so damned dangerous? ...That clears a lot of stuff up

Not just that. The Earthbound were released a long, long time before the other Fallen, and they've had centuries to remember all their powers. Plus, every single one of them is Torment 10+ (something like utterly evil).

Plus, most Earthbound tend to be very high-ranking demons... in other words, they cana nd wil lsmack you down if you get in their way.

Forever Zero · 04-15-2004, 01:47 AM

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Originally Posted by krylo

edit: How about the ones who want redemption, though? Those ones are trying to redeem themselves before god, and resent lucifer for getting them into this, not necessarily god.

Note: This is all academic. My demon will not want redemption.

Nothing wrong with an academic discussion now and then.

They still cannot have faith. Faith is the belief in something even when there is no proof of it, thus a normal person believing in God would be an act of faith, since God isn't standing next to me going, "Yo, FZ, what's going on?" I need to believe in an abstract concept that I cannot fully comprehend and that has no proof, thus an act of faith.

A demon knows God exists. Thus, they cannot have faith in the normal sense of the word since they know God exists. This point is ironically brought up in the Demon Handbook, where a Priest and a Devil are having a discussion on faith. The Priest says that it is not the goal of the Fallen to believe in God to recieve redemption, for they know God exists, but they must believe and blindly trust in God's infinate love and wisdom, even though they were persecuted for and banished to the Abyss by His will. Even though they were punished by Him, they must come to have faith in the fact that he is still a loving God, and that all he did was in their best interests.

Although Dante seems to have covered it well from a technical angle.

Dante · 04-15-2004, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forever Zero

A demon knows God exists. Thus, they cannot have faith in the normal sense of the word since they know God exists. This point is ironically brought up in the Demon Handbook, where a Priest and a Devil are having a discussion on faith. The Priest says that it is not the goal of the Fallen to believe in God to recieve redemption, for they know God exists, but they must believe and blindly trust in God's infinate love and wisdom, even though they were persecuted for and banished to the Abyss by His will. Even though they were punished by Him, they must come to have faith in the fact that he is still a loving God, and that all he did was in their best interests.

Pretty much what I was shooting for, except my faith is weak and I am unable to articulate religious concepts without exploding...

*loud explosion is heard*

IHateMakingNames · 04-15-2004, 01:50 AM

But what if a fallen believed in Gaia, and a werewolf believed in God?

Dante · 04-15-2004, 01:52 AM

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But what if a fallen believed in Gaia, and a werewolf believed in God?

Incompatible cosmologies, IHMN...

Forever Zero · 04-15-2004, 01:53 AM

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Originally Posted by IHateMakingNames

But what if a fallen believed in Gaia, and a werewolf believed in God?

Psshh, I have no clue. That get's into metaphysical concepts beyond my belief system. Perhaps a Fallen could turn to Gaia and be redeemed that way? I dunno...

Krylo · 04-15-2004, 01:55 AM

...Now I wanna be a zero torment gaia believing Fallen. Fear the holy-gaiastic smack down!

Seriously though: God created the universe, and Gaia is the spirits/life forces of earth, right? Given that, the two theologies aren't completely incompatible, but how could a fallen get redemption through a lesser being? I say Gaia is lesser because God would have had to create Gaia as well.

It's also the only way I can see both the fallen and werewolves existing as they do.

IHateMakingNames · 04-15-2004, 01:56 AM

Actually, why only God? Why not Zues, or Buddah, or... I don't know any other religions, but you see what I'm getting at.

Mage#27 · 04-15-2004, 01:59 AM

Gaia wouldn't want anything to do with a fallen. She would probably regard them as creatures of the wyrm and thus evil.

besides Gaia does not do anything on an earthly scale. She does not and cannot get involved in campaigns directly so this would be werewolves that would have to accept the fallen and werewolves are more or less soldiers. They have a definate "rip apart now ask questions later" attitude.

EDIT: On werewolves believing in God it is an impossibility. How can you believe is God when Gaia is staring you in the face? Gaia is the werewolves religion and they KNOW she exists. Thus no werewolf would ever believe in any other deity.

There is also another explanation for the whole true faith thing. To have true faith you must be human. You must be part of the pattern. Of the consensus as a mage would put it. Vampires can have true faith because they used to be part or the pattern. Other supernaturals were always inhuman and thus can never have true faith.

Dante · 04-15-2004, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Actually, why only God? Why not Zues, or Buddah, or... I don't know any other religions, but you see what I'm getting at

.

It's not just God, it's any concept of the Almighty. True Faith comes from utterly acknowledging the concept of such a being... and Werewolves cannot do that with Gaia. Why? Because Gaia is wounded and NEEDS THEIR HELP, and the concept of the Almighty is that he can NEVER be wounded or marred, nor would he even need the specks that he created to help him.

04-15-2004, 01:50 AM	#174
IHateMakingNames Awwwwh Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 12,119	But what if a fallen believed in Gaia, and a werewolf believed in God? __________________ "If I'm reincarnated, I want to be Musashi again!" - Musashi, Brave Fencer Musashi

04-15-2004, 01:55 AM	#177
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	...Now I wanna be a zero torment gaia believing Fallen. Fear the holy-gaiastic smack down! Seriously though: God created the universe, and Gaia is the spirits/life forces of earth, right? Given that, the two theologies aren't completely incompatible, but how could a fallen get redemption through a lesser being? I say Gaia is lesser because God would have had to create Gaia as well. It's also the only way I can see both the fallen and werewolves existing as they do. __________________ I am very tired.

04-15-2004, 01:56 AM	#178
IHateMakingNames Awwwwh Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 12,119	Actually, why only God? Why not Zues, or Buddah, or... I don't know any other religions, but you see what I'm getting at. __________________ "If I'm reincarnated, I want to be Musashi again!" - Musashi, Brave Fencer Musashi

04-15-2004, 01:59 AM	#179
Mage#27 Troopa Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 99	Gaia wouldn't want anything to do with a fallen. She would probably regard them as creatures of the wyrm and thus evil. besides Gaia does not do anything on an earthly scale. She does not and cannot get involved in campaigns directly so this would be werewolves that would have to accept the fallen and werewolves are more or less soldiers. They have a definate "rip apart now ask questions later" attitude. EDIT: On werewolves believing in God it is an impossibility. How can you believe is God when Gaia is staring you in the face? Gaia is the werewolves religion and they KNOW she exists. Thus no werewolf would ever believe in any other deity. There is also another explanation for the whole true faith thing. To have true faith you must be human. You must be part of the pattern. Of the consensus as a mage would put it. Vampires can have true faith because they used to be part or the pattern. Other supernaturals were always inhuman and thus can never have true faith. Last edited by Mage#27; 04-15-2004 at 02:02 AM.