DoW 2 beta

[Kerensky287]

Banshees feel buffed to me because they can instantly suppress a squad. If a squad is suppressed, the squad will lose, simple as that. But even then, the Eldar will probably have SOMETHING to assist the Banshees from range, which adds to their chances even further. And I played Orks for a while before I started on Tyranids - Sluggas ain't got NOTHING on banshees unless you Waaagh with like 3 squads.

In Dawn of War 1, I never used Banshees because they couldn't do anything except lower opponent morale and tie up ranged squads - and even then, said ranged squads could be more easily taken care of by almost anything else the Eldar had. I played Eldar a ton and never used Banshees.

[01d55]

Originally Posted by Kerensky287

Banshees feel buffed to me because they can instantly suppress a squad. If a squad is suppressed, the squad will lose, simple as that. But even then, the Eldar will probably have SOMETHING to assist the Banshees from range, which adds to their chances even further. And I played Orks for a while before I started on Tyranids - Sluggas ain't got NOTHING on banshees unless you Waaagh with like 3 squads.

I guess your experience is different than mine - I've never seen Sluggas not Waagh and rush me as soon as I start firing.

Come to think of it, I've never read a detailed explanation of what exactly suppression does. I know it slows movement since that's a dramatic and immediately visible effect, but I get the feeling you take extra damage too.

God, I wish there was a tutorial.

[Kerensky287]

Originally Posted by 01d55

I guess your experience is different than mine - I've never seen Sluggas not Waagh and rush me as soon as I start firing.

That's not what I meant. Waaagh effects stack, so having 3 squads using it at once and right next to each other makes them completely beefed.

And I'm pretty sure suppression reduces defense as well, but I don't know for sure. I think it does because as soon as a squad is suppressed, they start dropping like flies, and Synapse'd Rippers are fairly effective at attacking emplacements despite having very little health (because they don't get suppressed). I know for certain that a suppressed squad does far less damage however, which is a bonus in itself for the Banshees because they can hit without being hit back.

Another thing I noticed is that retreating units get huge defense bonuses. As in, tank-like damage absorption from small-arms fire. Seems very similar to Company of Heroes - I remember one game where the sole survivor of a Sapper squad retreated from behind enemy lines, ran through all their defenses, past 2 anti-infantry tanks and past a group of Knight's Cross Holders, and made it back in one piece.

[01d55]

Originally Posted by Kerensky287

That's not what I meant. Waaagh effects stack, so having 3 squads using it at once and right next to each other makes them completely beefed.

To clarify - 3 of any squad that can waaagh (I assume that's every squad) all using it or 3 sluggas all waagh'n? 'Cos if it's the former then it's kind of like saying "Banshees will beat Sluggas unless the Orkz do that thing that they're always going to do." I mean I guess an Eldar could bait the waagh, retreat, and re-engage when the ability is on cooldown, but that's much more involved than charge->scream->win.

I've only played Orcs once and it was my very first round, where I had my resolution set wrong and couldn't see the right third of the screen, so I basically know nothing about them other than "waaagh means they're gonna kill you."

Originally Posted by Kerensky287

Another thing I noticed is that retreating units get huge defense bonuses. As in, tank-like damage absorption from small-arms fire. Seems very similar to Company of Heroes - I remember one game where the sole survivor of a Sapper squad retreated from behind enemy lines, ran through all their defenses, past 2 anti-infantry tanks and past a group of Knight's Cross Holders, and made it back in one piece.

That's called out in the tooltip and mentioned in all the loading screen hints about it. It's a big part of why you can't revoke the order once it's given - if you could cancel out of it people would be trying to find ways to use it in place of move orders.

Even so, in DoW2 I've seen squads with the fall back order get caught by emplacements and killed when taking a marginally longer path would have avoided enemy contact, and that's rather frustrating 'cos it's usually my squad.

[Kerensky287]

...

...Okay, I'll admit it, I'm a TERRIBLE Ork player and Banshees must have only been effective because I was using them wrong.

[01d55]

Originally Posted by Kerensky287

...

...Okay, I'll admit it, I'm a TERRIBLE Ork player and Banshees must have only been effective because I was using them wrong.

Hey man maybe I just suck with Banshees.

EDIT: Okay re-reading the conversation I can see how you'd think this was turning into one of those terrible X is overpowered! No X is underpowered! No U! "debates" that infest every strategy games' official boards.
I'm not saying that I have any reason to think that "Waagh with three squads" isn't a catch-all answer to howling banshees using their suppression shout, I'm saying that my ignorance of Orkz is so complete that I have no idea what that reason would be, and that's not at all clear from how I said it.

[Mirai Gen]

Did they basically take out all the building construction and shit in DoW2?

Because if so, I think this just became my new favorite game.

[Kerensky287]

Originally Posted by Mirai Gen

Did they basically take out all the building construction and shit in DoW2?

Because if so, I think this just became my new favorite game.

Yes. Yes they did.

And re: Waaagh, it's an ability that has a relatively large cooldown and costs some of your "fighting" resource. Meaning, the more you use Waaagh, the less points you end up having for abilities like Roks and Call da Boyz (global automatic reinforcement for weaker squads).

[Mirai Gen]

Huh.

Still deciding if it's a good thing or not, but it does make it feel more like Warhammer. Going to play Spacies and Eldar now.

[01d55]

Something 's been bugging me about the opening cinematic since the first time I watched it: At the end, the Farseer says "no .... this planet is theirs" and points up into the sky. Then the camera pans up, giving us a view of... an empty sky. Is there something I'm missing?