The Warring States of NPF  

Go Back   The Warring States of NPF > Dead threads
User Name
Password
Mark Forums Read
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Join Chat

 
View First Unread View First Unread   Click to unhide all tags.Click to hide all tags.  
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 05-03-2009, 03:59 PM   #1
Telephalsion
Twizzle
 
Telephalsion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 597
Telephalsion is reputed to be..repu..tational. Yes.
Send a message via MSN to Telephalsion
Default Sword Shapes

I'm sitting here planning an RP, and I'm wondering how to incorporate Rapiers and other fencing-type swords into the setting. I want the enemies of the players to wield rapier-esque weapons that are only for thrusting, and not for cutting.

What I'm wondering is if there has been a sword, with a needle-shaped blade at any point in history. Or if all swords are shaped as, well blades, with only varying thickness and width, the smallest being the rapier?

Any help on this subject would be greatly appriciated.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Must Die View Post
It certainly helped to specify that you read the rules. We don't get that much around here.
Telephalsion is offline Add to Telephalsion's Reputation  
Unread 05-03-2009, 04:24 PM   #2
Mr.Bookworm
YYYEEEEEAAAAAAHHH
 
Mr.Bookworm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,034
Mr.Bookworm can see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Mr.Bookworm can see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Mr.Bookworm can see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Mr.Bookworm can see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Mr.Bookworm can see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Mr.Bookworm can see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Mr.Bookworm can see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Mr.Bookworm can see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch.
Send a message via AIM to Mr.Bookworm
Default

A needle shaped blade wouldn't work for a large number of reasons. One is flexibility. Anything actually the size of a needle would snap like a twig if you made it that long. Make it bigger, and you cease having a needle, and just have a mace with a sharp tip.

Beyond even that, rapiers never saw much use on the battlefield. They were mainly used by the wealthy for self-defense and dueling.

Of course, I'm not exactly the most learned about this sort of thing, so I could be wrong.
Mr.Bookworm is offline Add to Mr.Bookworm's Reputation  
Unread 05-03-2009, 04:43 PM   #3
BitVyper
History's Strongest Dilettante
 
BitVyper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Arcadia
Posts: 6,662
BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday!
Send a message via AIM to BitVyper
Default

Long, thin thrusting weapons don't do super-good against shields and heavy armour. I could see them doing better against lighter armour though, for the same reason knives go through kevlar. You could potentially go for point attacks on heavier armour, but you're going to have a tough time.

Rapiers specifically tend to be fairly long compared to other swords, the idea being that you will keep your opponent at a distance and kill them there. That, unfortunately, doesn't work so well outside of a duelling situation. If you want a thrusting weapon for large-scale battles, you go for a spear. Not that spears aren't equally useful in pretty much any combat situation, but you know...

All of that said; there's certainly been a ton of swashbuckling games, and it's not like you NEED to be realistic. Plus you can always design your setting such that duelling weapons will work. Hell, you could just base your setting on 16th century Europe, and that'd work just fine. Or you could have a culture where everything in large scale battle revolves around personal challenges. But even if you're not wanting to change the setting or be unrealistic, even in the real world, you still have seven million Eastern styles that focus on using some bizarre, impractical, incredibly situational weapon that would never work in large scale battle. Many of said schools are *still* going around swearing up and down that they have the mightiest weapon ever wielded by man. So I mean, you can always fall back on the fact that people do stuff like that.

Quote:
What I'm wondering is if there has been a sword, with a needle-shaped blade at any point in history.
You're looking for a smallsword. The smallsword is the weapon people tend to think about when they think of rapiers. Rapiers are actually a bit weighty with long wider blades and can potentially be used to cut (although not very well). I was actually kind of surprised at the weight the first time I ever used one. It's all right at the hilt too, so it feels kind of weird with a not-too-heavy blade. Smallswords are essentially long needles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallsword - good luck doing anything but duelling with it though.

Edit: Throw in a main gauche, and rapier fencing becomes a bit more practical outside of duelling. Still not ideal, but better.
__________________
"There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea is asleep, and the rivers dream. People made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace; we've got work to do!"

Awesome art be here.

Last edited by BitVyper; 05-03-2009 at 05:00 PM.
BitVyper is offline Add to BitVyper's Reputation  
Unread 05-03-2009, 04:59 PM   #4
Telephalsion
Twizzle
 
Telephalsion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 597
Telephalsion is reputed to be..repu..tational. Yes.
Send a message via MSN to Telephalsion
Default

Hmm, interesting.

Well, the general idea was to have the players arrive in a "new world" type setting. Aztec type ruins, rainforests, and such. Added twist would be that the "aztec" wouldn't use hammers and other crude weapons, but rather elegant rapiers, and now also smallswords. But I might have to rethink this if rapiers aren't all that deadly.

The setting would be in a place where metal armour is scarce if existing at all. The best personal protection for the natives would be hides from varous animals, maybe thicker lizard scales from some hostile lizardmen. With that in mind I figured rapiers might work, as apart from a regular fantasy setting where everyone and their grandmother wears some form of metal armour.

Aside: On second thought, this might be better in playing games due to the RP nature, a move would be appreciated.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Must Die View Post
It certainly helped to specify that you read the rules. We don't get that much around here.
Telephalsion is offline Add to Telephalsion's Reputation  
Unread 05-03-2009, 05:03 PM   #5
BitVyper
History's Strongest Dilettante
 
BitVyper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Arcadia
Posts: 6,662
BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday!
Send a message via AIM to BitVyper
Default

Well see, rapiers can be very deadly. I mean, they're a great duelling weapon, and there's a lot of good reasons that they were used when they were used. Plus they and their successors are easier to carry and maintain, and the government is probably less concerned if people arm themselves with weapons they can't use to overthrow it. It's just that if you were to pull one out in the middle of a battlefield where people were wearing medium to heavy armour and wielding spears and heavy swords, you'd be in a bit of a situation. If the best armour available is essentially leather as you indicate, then all you really need to do is have the cultures operate more on warrior's pride with fights mostly being personal challenges and etcetera.

I like to think of duelling weapons as being very.... cultural. You need some background for them because they're not just a weapon that's made to kill a lot of people fast. Have sort of a refined warrior-poet culture, and they work great.

Edit: You could have these people view more traditional weapons of war as savage things only to be used by psychotic brutes who just glory in slaughter, or in the case of things like spears; hunting weapons that would be an indignified way to kill a man.

Edit: Lets say for an example scenario, someone picks a PC's pocket. They catch him, but he swears he didn't do it, and no one is going to believe the dirty foreigners. The PCs might try to take matters into their own hands, but that's likely going to turn the crowd against the cowardly, dirty foreigners. However it may be perfectly acceptable in this culture to challenge the man to a duel as a way of proving that the PC is right. If the thief declines or tries to escape, it may turn the crowd against him. This gives the PCs a culture that they have to figure out how to navigate in order to get things done.
__________________
"There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea is asleep, and the rivers dream. People made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace; we've got work to do!"

Awesome art be here.

Last edited by BitVyper; 05-03-2009 at 05:17 PM.
BitVyper is offline Add to BitVyper's Reputation  
Unread 05-03-2009, 05:14 PM   #6
Jagos
FRONT KICK OF DOOM!
 
Jagos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Howdy pardner...
Posts: 6,399
Jagos can see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Jagos can see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Jagos can see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Jagos can see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Jagos can see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Jagos can see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Jagos can see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch.
Send a message via Yahoo to Jagos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Telephalsion View Post
Hmm, interesting.

Well, the general idea was to have the players arrive in a "new world" type setting. Aztec type ruins, rainforests, and such. Added twist would be that the "aztec" wouldn't use hammers and other crude weapons, but rather elegant rapiers, and now also smallswords. But I might have to rethink this if rapiers aren't all that deadly.

The setting would be in a place where metal armour is scarce if existing at all. The best personal protection for the natives would be hides from varous animals, maybe thicker lizard scales from some hostile lizardmen. With that in mind I figured rapiers might work, as apart from a regular fantasy setting where everyone and their grandmother wears some form of metal armour.

Aside: On second thought, this might be better in playing games due to the RP nature, a move would be appreciated.
To give context, I believe you would want to look into bronze weaponry or even look at Roman Gladiator style weapons.

When someone thinks of a rapier, it usually is the personal challenge as mentioned.

But I think the smaller gladius would look better in your setting for the uncivilized jungle while the rapier would look great for the elite class.
Jagos is offline Add to Jagos's Reputation  
Unread 05-03-2009, 05:18 PM   #7
BitVyper
History's Strongest Dilettante
 
BitVyper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Arcadia
Posts: 6,662
BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday! BitVyper will now be known as Freedom Friday, but still on a Tuesday!
Send a message via AIM to BitVyper
Default

The other question is how these people have a significant number of metal weapons, but no decent armour. Something to address, anyway.
__________________
"There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea is asleep, and the rivers dream. People made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace; we've got work to do!"

Awesome art be here.
BitVyper is offline Add to BitVyper's Reputation  
Unread 05-03-2009, 05:20 PM   #8
Premmy
Stop the hate
 
Premmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: In a nice web on fifty first street
Posts: 4,466
Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own.
Send a message via AIM to Premmy Send a message via Yahoo to Premmy
Default

They used to be so crazy they'd kill you before they'd protect themselves, being uncivilized savages and all.
__________________
Drank
Premmy is offline Add to Premmy's Reputation  
Unread 05-03-2009, 05:27 PM   #9
Telephalsion
Twizzle
 
Telephalsion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 597
Telephalsion is reputed to be..repu..tational. Yes.
Send a message via MSN to Telephalsion
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BitVyper View Post
The other question is how these people have a significant number of metal weapons, but no decent armour. Something to address, anyway.
Premonitions nailed it.

But on a more serious note, yeah, I might have to think this one through some more.
Anyways, if you were the leader of a jungle-dwelling civilization, would you spend your precious metals on weapons to kill animals and lizardmen and use their hides as armour, or use metal armour to survive the onslaught of these animals and lizardmen long enough to bash their skulls in with a rock on a stick?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Must Die View Post
It certainly helped to specify that you read the rules. We don't get that much around here.

Last edited by Telephalsion; 05-03-2009 at 05:28 PM. Reason: misspelling etc.
Telephalsion is offline Add to Telephalsion's Reputation  
Unread 05-03-2009, 05:32 PM   #10
Premmy
Stop the hate
 
Premmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: In a nice web on fifty first street
Posts: 4,466
Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own. Premmy did away with the unicorn requirement and straight up farts rainbows on their own.
Send a message via AIM to Premmy Send a message via Yahoo to Premmy
Default

Actually that's a perfect example of similarities in dedication to offense or defense, either one of those sounds good.
__________________
Drank
Premmy is offline Add to Premmy's Reputation  
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:39 AM.
The server time is now 05:39:14 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.