D&D Question and Information thread. (First post updated!) - Page 39

reality_deviant · 07-28-2004, 07:17 PM

Level 1 characters against a troll? Does your DM hate you? Are you guys constantly messing with him/her? If not, that seems a little harsh...I'm not exactly sure what CR a troll is, but I'm guessing at least 4. Pick up a healthy supply of oil, torches, alchemist's fire, use ranged attacks, ambush the damn thing and push a big rock on it...you could even use non-flame-oriented spells, like Tenser's floating disk to carry the rock, or Grease to make him more flammable. maybe the other players can somehow con or trick your char into using magic items. I was in a game with a Forsaker, who basically refused all magic, healing or otherwise, and we had to keep tricking this angry little halfling chick by saying things like, "He's a druid, c'mon, he's using some herbs in a healing salve, not casting a spell." Or...is it YOU that dislikes the items? May the gods (and DMs) have mercy upon you...

AndyBloodredMage · 07-28-2004, 07:33 PM

Tenser's Floating Disc, a less useful spell I do not know.

Nikose Tyris · 07-29-2004, 08:15 AM

RD, we killed the troll in the end. yes, he hates us. hating the players is a DM prerequiste. everyone knows that. otherwise the challenge is gone. we also expect him to cheat on his dice rolls. but trolls are not a challenge. and our kobold uses tenser's floating disk to fly. yes, that is really, really retarded. so is the kobold.
and I don't like using magic items at low levels. i perfer to use them after i have established the absolute impossibilty of me surviving. which doesn't happen until he brings out the half dragons. i hate fightning half dragons. and you Cannot sneak up on a troll. they have the scent ability which alerts them automatically to your presence. but you can throw rocks at them. lots and lots of rocks. and if your Barbarian smashs through the thin wall behind the troll, and you are distracting it by throwing rocks, you can sneak attack it. which is what we did. and then the troll uses the Barbarian as an improvised club. on my sorcerer. and our cleric smacks it back with a spell. and the barbarian goes into a rage and kills the troll. Barbarian is too strong. otherwise we could not have beaten the troll.
and i Love magic items, just try not to rely on them. your talking to the CHaracter who has (Nenyel, a medium outsider, shapeshifting) A really great sword. he has a living shapeshifting blade, with huge immunities, that Nikose weilds. believe me, i love magic items, just don't like to use them at low levels.

Kazastankas · 07-29-2004, 08:45 AM

Though Metagaming is bad, it doesn't have to be Metagaming on a DM - It's almost impossible to give such an accusation to a DM, as, of course, he can always have Mysterious Villian - Divination Master looking over the party, and use that as an excuse to screw you. That's what a DM does, after all.

Trolls at Level 1 really isn't bad - they aren't immune to magic and such, and I've beaten one once. (Okay, so it was a cheapy spiked chain fighter with a healthy supply of alc fires convenient in his sack for.. booming, but still.) Now, if you get a Large/Huge construct thrown at you at that level, then you may have some problem.

Lycanthrope · 07-29-2004, 01:44 PM

I disagree that hating the players is a prerequisit. True some of the challenge is gone, but I hate playing with DM's that are out to get me. When they put you against a tarrasque at level five its just not very nice, considering you need, NEED a level 18 or higher spellcaster in order to defeat the tarasque.

Ganurath · 07-29-2004, 02:17 PM

For reference, Trolls are (last I checked) CR 8.

Kazastankas · 07-29-2004, 02:45 PM

Well, Lycanthrope, hate is a few steps away from loathe and despise. The thing is, you simply don't want a lovey-dovey DM. 'Oh, you lovely Level 18s, can you handle some kobolds? Tee-hee!'

..okay, maybe that's a little far.

Lycanthrope · 07-29-2004, 04:20 PM

No, the best DM's are writers. They tell the story like a writer works on a novel, except giving the PC's somewhat more free reign than a character in a book. He doesn't want you to die, because then the story doesn't finish. God if I went out of my way to try to kill my players they wouldn't have made it past the first session (very many of them are very stupid).

Ganurath · 07-29-2004, 04:55 PM

Ah, stupid players. The worst problem in D&D that can't be helped. I'm reminded of the time our party's Tiefling Monk tried to Hide In Plain Sight. Ruined the ambush and nearly got us killed.

Lycanthrope · 07-29-2004, 05:05 PM

Well, the one that convinced me that I needed to take them under wing was when one player managed to convince a group of Drow that they had been the ones responcible for killing an entire surface raid warband.

Quote the Drow: "Then you are holding Her hostage?"
Quote the Paladin: "Who? Who are we holding hostage?"

The sorcerer (who had the highest bluff) explodes at the paladin for interfering. the paladin (who was a moon elf), then he said "Well we're both elves so we should get along...." well, he's getting better but we still make fun of him for opening his big mouth at the most inopertune moments.

07-28-2004, 07:17 PM	#381
reality_deviant Unlikely Hero Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Beautiful Southern Illinois Posts: 747	Level 1 characters against a troll? Does your DM hate you? Are you guys constantly messing with him/her? If not, that seems a little harsh...I'm not exactly sure what CR a troll is, but I'm guessing at least 4. Pick up a healthy supply of oil, torches, alchemist's fire, use ranged attacks, ambush the damn thing and push a big rock on it...you could even use non-flame-oriented spells, like Tenser's floating disk to carry the rock, or Grease to make him more flammable. maybe the other players can somehow con or trick your char into using magic items. I was in a game with a Forsaker, who basically refused all magic, healing or otherwise, and we had to keep tricking this angry little halfling chick by saying things like, "He's a druid, c'mon, he's using some herbs in a healing salve, not casting a spell." Or...is it YOU that dislikes the items? May the gods (and DMs) have mercy upon you... __________________ "Being a mage is about giving a damn."~2nd Ed. M:tA Handbook "Hope is the bravest rebellion."~Phil Brucato "this is clearly the fault of those wacky money-hating environmentalists, with their tye-dyed t-shirts and their total lack of political power, making life miserable for those poor oppressed three-hundred-billion-dollar-market-cap oil companies."~fifthfiend

07-29-2004, 08:45 AM	#384
Kazastankas The Carnivorous Weeble Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 296	Though Metagaming is bad, it doesn't have to be Metagaming on a DM - It's almost impossible to give such an accusation to a DM, as, of course, he can always have Mysterious Villian - Divination Master looking over the party, and use that as an excuse to screw you. That's what a DM does, after all. Trolls at Level 1 really isn't bad - they aren't immune to magic and such, and I've beaten one once. (Okay, so it was a cheapy spiked chain fighter with a healthy supply of alc fires convenient in his sack for.. booming, but still.) Now, if you get a Large/Huge construct thrown at you at that level, then you may have some problem. __________________ CHOMP ARRRRGH!! I'm a rankmaniac!

07-29-2004, 01:44 PM	#385
Lycanthrope Deus Lupus Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The City of Angels Posts: 2,925	I disagree that hating the players is a prerequisit. True some of the challenge is gone, but I hate playing with DM's that are out to get me. When they put you against a tarrasque at level five its just not very nice, considering you need, NEED a level 18 or higher spellcaster in order to defeat the tarasque. __________________ "With these seven easy steps, you, too, can be the authoritarian despot of your own principality. Machiavelli, your road to happiness" "I shoot Flying Monkies!" "Christmas had it coming its what it gets for taking over thanksgiving and threatening halloween with its weapons of mass consumerism" "Death to All Fanatics!" Official RP Action God Lycanthropic Poem "FOR YOU THE CAKE IS OVER. YOU HAVE REACHED THE END OF CAKE." -Death Krylo and BMG are apparently my bitches.

07-29-2004, 02:17 PM	#386
Ganurath Kinky yet Legal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 660	For reference, Trolls are (last I checked) CR 8. __________________ RP Fighter Master RP Drama Knight Sing to me the pretty song, The one that goes day and night long, So that at the end of day, When you are gone, your song will stay.

07-29-2004, 02:45 PM	#387
Kazastankas The Carnivorous Weeble Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 296	Well, Lycanthrope, hate is a few steps away from loathe and despise. The thing is, you simply don't want a lovey-dovey DM. 'Oh, you lovely Level 18s, can you handle some kobolds? Tee-hee!' ..okay, maybe that's a little far. __________________ CHOMP ARRRRGH!! I'm a rankmaniac!

07-29-2004, 04:20 PM	#388
Lycanthrope Deus Lupus Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The City of Angels Posts: 2,925	No, the best DM's are writers. They tell the story like a writer works on a novel, except giving the PC's somewhat more free reign than a character in a book. He doesn't want you to die, because then the story doesn't finish. God if I went out of my way to try to kill my players they wouldn't have made it past the first session (very many of them are very stupid). __________________ "With these seven easy steps, you, too, can be the authoritarian despot of your own principality. Machiavelli, your road to happiness" "I shoot Flying Monkies!" "Christmas had it coming its what it gets for taking over thanksgiving and threatening halloween with its weapons of mass consumerism" "Death to All Fanatics!" Official RP Action God Lycanthropic Poem "FOR YOU THE CAKE IS OVER. YOU HAVE REACHED THE END OF CAKE." -Death Krylo and BMG are apparently my bitches.

07-29-2004, 04:55 PM	#389
Ganurath Kinky yet Legal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 660	Ah, stupid players. The worst problem in D&D that can't be helped. I'm reminded of the time our party's Tiefling Monk tried to Hide In Plain Sight. Ruined the ambush and nearly got us killed. __________________ RP Fighter Master RP Drama Knight Sing to me the pretty song, The one that goes day and night long, So that at the end of day, When you are gone, your song will stay.

07-29-2004, 05:05 PM	#390
Lycanthrope Deus Lupus Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The City of Angels Posts: 2,925	Well, the one that convinced me that I needed to take them under wing was when one player managed to convince a group of Drow that they had been the ones responcible for killing an entire surface raid warband. Quote the Drow: "Then you are holding Her hostage?" Quote the Paladin: "Who? Who are we holding hostage?" The sorcerer (who had the highest bluff) explodes at the paladin for interfering. the paladin (who was a moon elf), then he said "Well we're both elves so we should get along...." well, he's getting better but we still make fun of him for opening his big mouth at the most inopertune moments. __________________ "With these seven easy steps, you, too, can be the authoritarian despot of your own principality. Machiavelli, your road to happiness" "I shoot Flying Monkies!" "Christmas had it coming its what it gets for taking over thanksgiving and threatening halloween with its weapons of mass consumerism" "Death to All Fanatics!" Official RP Action God Lycanthropic Poem "FOR YOU THE CAKE IS OVER. YOU HAVE REACHED THE END OF CAKE." -Death Krylo and BMG are apparently my bitches.