Geneva Conventions outdated? - Page 5

GatoFiero · 06-08-2004, 07:48 PM

Yea, the whole Iraq situation could be better summarized as. Our friend asked us to beat up a bully who was kicking the ass of his other friend. So we went and kicked the bully's ass...and we stayed in our friend's house even though his family didn't like it very much. 10 years later we track down the bully and kick his ass, again, because someone who lives on his block wrecked our car...and we also wanted to steal his wallet.

Make note that I do not mention WMDs. This is because there were never any WMDs, they were destroyed long ago or are buried in the middle of a desert. The case of the former seems idealistic, but the case of the latter has no evidence, and thus, cannot be counted.

Illuminatus · 06-08-2004, 07:50 PM

Pfcq, I respect you. You are in the military, fighting for my interests in a foreign country. But at the same time, you infuriate me to a degree that no one has done in a long time.

I am not an imbecile. When I said what I did about my morals, I did not mean I would look around helplessly if a terrorist used a human shield. THERE ARE OTHER WAYS. (On an unrelated note, how dare you mock my morals? What manner of man are you?)

Police in America deal with human shields and criminals in populated areas all the time, without resorting to shooting all involved. If a terrorist in America took, say, three hostages, and holed himself up in a building, the we FIREBOMBED it, that would be wrong yes? How is it different in Iraq? Are Iraqi lives somehow worth less than ours? Let's examine Iraqi DNA and American DNA. Check it out dude. WE'RE ALL HUMAN.

Raerlynn · 06-08-2004, 09:03 PM

"The point of war isn't to die for your country, it's to make some poor bastard die for his"

That sums up my view of the war. My opinion: You point any kind of weapon at me/friends/loved ones, then yes, your life becomes insignificant to the lives of those that I know. That's pretty simple math to me. Fight or Flight. Remember that? Flight doesn't work well against something that travels faster than you can see.

To the person who said that servicemen died for nothing: (Note that this from someone who really isn't much of a religious person) Go directly to hell, do not pass hell, do not collect $200. My family is military. My friends are military. My job is a military civilian. Tell me that they are fighting for nothing at all. They're just there to make noise and be racist asses, right? Quite literally, you fall under the category of "media pundits" who don't have a damn clue, because you're not out there.

IH8Stupidppl: I would mock your morals. In a heartbeat. You're telling me that given the choice between your friend's life, or your attacker's, you would rather your friend dies? Glad I'm not your friend. Morality is right or wrong. When someone attacks me/my friends/family, that is wrong. I move to correct that wrong. This starts at, "DROP IT!", escalates into disarming, into broken limbs, and as a last resort, death of the attacker. There is no time for you to debate with someone that wants you dead, when they have the means to make their wish true. You either choose if you want to suffer from someone else's wrong, or make them suffer for attempting it on you.

Krylo · 06-08-2004, 09:32 PM

Raer, you completely misunderstood everybody.

The person who said they're dying for nothing isn't blaming them. He's blaming the government. He sees no good reason for this war and it pisses him off that our servicemen are being sent over there to die for no good reason. It's not that he thinks they're over there to be racist asses... it's that he thinks they SHOULDN'T be dying. He wants them alive. What is so bad about that?

I don't understand what this obsession is with people 'not supporting the troops' because they don't support the war. If you ask me, it's better support for the troops if you don't support the war. If I was over there getting my ass shot at I'd be thanking the people saying that the war is pointless and I should come home a HELL of a lot more than the people saying I should stay there longer, and that they should send more people over there to get THEIR asses shot at.

And IH8Stupidppl isn't putting an attacker's life above anyone's... he's putting the life of an attacker's human shield. Did you even read his posts? Like he said, if a gunman had a hostage here in a building and we blew up the building, that would be considered immoral, wouldn't it? Why isn't it immoral when we do the same thing elsewhere?

Fifthfiend · 06-08-2004, 09:36 PM

Quote:

My opinion: You point any kind of weapon at me/friends/loved ones, then yes, your life becomes insignificant to the lives of those that I know.

It is unfortunate that Iraqis seem to feel the same way.

Omega Mage Zero · 06-08-2004, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krylo

Raer, you completely misunderstood everybody.

The person who said they're dying for nothing isn't blaming them. He's blaming the government. He sees no good reason for this war and it pisses him off that our servicemen are being sent over there to die for no good reason. It's not that he thinks they're over there to be racist asses... it's that he thinks they SHOULDN'T be dying. He wants them alive. What is so bad about that?

I don't understand what this obsession is with people 'not supporting the troops' because they don't support the war. If you ask me, it's better support for the troops if you don't support the war. If I was over there getting my ass shot at I'd be thanking the people saying that the war is pointless and I should come home a HELL of a lot more than the people saying I should stay there longer, and that they should send more people over there to get THEIR asses shot at.

Thank you Krylo. Well said. I just have to shake my head at this angry, hyper-defensive attitude some people take. I respect people in the military, I don't hate them. If I question the Pentagon or the Administration, how does that imply I hate servicemen and women?

We have a history of respecting the military in this country, at least post WWII. When did it become some kind of psuedo-state religon where it becomes a sin to question anything involving the military or it's actions while troops are in danger. "Yeah, Dick and Dubya, we know they're in danger, YOU'RE the ones that put them there!"

Toastburner B · 06-08-2004, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega Mage Zero

Thank you Krylo. Well said. I just have to shake my head at this angry, hyper-defensive attitude some people take. I respect people in the military, I don't hate them. If I question the Pentagon or the Administration, how does that imply I hate servicemen and women?

Wanna know why? I can't speak for anyone else, but I can tell you what people I've talked too who have come back from the war believe.

Come closer...appearently, it's a secret, so I have to whisper:

THEY ARE CONVICED WE ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING!

And, personally, I think their opinion is the one that matters.

I'll stop now before I climb on my soapbox again. 'Night, y'all.

Fifthfiend · 06-08-2004, 11:48 PM

Quote:

THEY ARE CONVICED WE ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING!

And, personally, I think their opinion is the one that matters.

Absolutely correct. Military personnel are clearly the only individuals capable of judging political issues and deserving of an opinion on them.

Thank god we ended that idiotic "civilian control of the military" and instituted the policy of only allowing military veterans to vote.

...

Oh, wait a second... that wasn't America, that was Starship Troopers.

Whoops. My bad.

pfcq · 06-09-2004, 04:03 AM

"Thank you Krylo. Well said. I just have to shake my head at this angry, hyper-defensive attitude some people take. I respect people in the military, I don't hate them. If I question the Pentagon or the Administration, how does that imply I hate servicemen and women?"

Hyper defensive am I? Damn I wonder if that was because you said something along the lines of "Your friends died for no reason". Humm I wonder, but hell your the teacher right? Tell me, did I fly off the handle? I stand by my last post. I truely think your worthless "Omega" and hell so does my whole frickin Sqd.

"Absolutely correct. Military personnel are clearly the only individuals capable of judging political issues and deserving of an opinion on them.

Thank god we ended that idiotic "civilian control of the military" and instituted the policy of only allowing military veterans to vote.

...

Oh, wait a second... that wasn't America, that was Starship Troopers.

Whoops. My bad."

Thats it wiseass, the military decided we should go to war. Heres a clue, No...soldier...ever...wants...to...go...to...war. Wow amazing huh, that the very people sent to these battlezones are the last ones willing to go? (well, not the last I guess, I mean your not down here right?) Know what happens when some gun-ho idiot tries to join the military? He gets dropped almost always withen the first year of his enlistment. I've been in...year and a half now? (And trust me I'm finishing my 5 year tour) The people over here, for the most part, belive in what we're doing. The rest have had too many friends killed to care about anything then above getting through each day. Or they have been extended. See the thing that gets me is that, for the most part none of you have been to war (common them huh?) It would be like me saying that teaching is a worthless enderver, cause most kids nowadays don't give a damn and most tests they take are worthless in the first place, when I've never steped in a classroom as a teacher.

Hell its cool that you guys hate the war. Fine whatever, alot of us over here don't really care what you people think. We're too busy getting shot at and blown up and killing innocent human shields and blowing up schools and whatnot to pay any attention on whats going on at home. I was just unlucky enough ta have some freetime to find this stupid thread. Why do I keep posting then? Simple. Too many of you have insulted my honor and convictions and those of my friends for me to shut up. Therefor I make it my mission to piss off each and every one of you (ok most of you at any rate) and show you how fuggin ignorent you all seem to the military end. Hate me, love me, whatever.

Hooah (More military pride I know...Sick isn't it?)

Omega Mage Zero · 06-09-2004, 08:47 AM

[QUOTE=pfcqThats it wiseass, the military decided we should go to war. Heres a clue, No...soldier...ever...wants...to...go...to...war. Wow amazing huh, that the very people sent to these battlezones are the last ones willing to go? (well, not the last I guess, I mean your not down here right?) Know what happens when some gun-ho idiot tries to join the military? He gets dropped almost always withen the first year of his enlistment. I've been in...year and a half now? (And trust me I'm finishing my 5 year tour) The people over here, for the most part, belive in what we're doing. The rest have had too many friends killed to care about anything then above getting through each day. Or they have been extended. See the thing that gets me is that, for the most part none of you have been to war (common them huh?) It would be like me saying that teaching is a worthless enderver, cause most kids nowadays don't give a damn and most tests they take are worthless in the first place, when I've never steped in a classroom as a teacher.[/QUOTE]

No, the Mil;itary did NOT decide to go to war. They were SENT, by the president and his administration. The military doesn't choose who to fight, they get to choose how if they're lucky. As Fifthfiend cleverly pointed, civilians control the military, not vice versa. We don't live in a Facist/Military Dictatorship yet, despite the best efforts of some.

Also, kid, you may be in the service, but you don't speak for everyone in it. My Father and two of his brothers were in Vietnam, they didn't believe in what they were doing then and they certainly don't now. As I mentioned earlier, two of my friends from high school have returned from Iraq and neither of them think like you do. They are quite strongly against this war and the current administration.

No, I haven't been in the army and I've never been shot at. But what am I saying that's so infuriating to you? I say this war is wrong and Americans shouldn't be there getting killed for no good purpose. What do you believe? Is this a just war? Are we accomplishing something? In some of your earlier posts you said you didn't give a shit about Iraqis, so you're not there to help them. You said I would never understand the glory and honor of combat. Glory? Kid, FUCK glory! (Yeah, shocking language, sorry) Glory is nothing, are you there for glory and honor?

As for your Hooah and military pride, yes it is sickening if it's an unthinking pride.

06-08-2004, 07:50 PM	#42
Illuminatus The Dread Pirate Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Where the wild things are Posts: 1,310	Pfcq, I respect you. You are in the military, fighting for my interests in a foreign country. But at the same time, you infuriate me to a degree that no one has done in a long time. I am not an imbecile. When I said what I did about my morals, I did not mean I would look around helplessly if a terrorist used a human shield. THERE ARE OTHER WAYS. (On an unrelated note, how dare you mock my morals? What manner of man are you?) Police in America deal with human shields and criminals in populated areas all the time, without resorting to shooting all involved. If a terrorist in America took, say, three hostages, and holed himself up in a building, the we FIREBOMBED it, that would be wrong yes? How is it different in Iraq? Are Iraqi lives somehow worth less than ours? Let's examine Iraqi DNA and American DNA. Check it out dude. WE'RE ALL HUMAN. __________________ Man, n. An animal so lost in rapturous contemplation of what he thinks he is as to overlook what he indubitably ought to be. His chief occupation is the extermination of other animals and his own species, which, however, multiplies with such insistent rapidity as to infest the whole habitable earth and Canada. -Ambrose Bierce's Devil's Dictionary Last edited by Ih8stupidppl; 06-08-2004 at 07:53 PM.

06-08-2004, 09:32 PM	#44
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	Raer, you completely misunderstood everybody. The person who said they're dying for nothing isn't blaming them. He's blaming the government. He sees no good reason for this war and it pisses him off that our servicemen are being sent over there to die for no good reason. It's not that he thinks they're over there to be racist asses... it's that he thinks they SHOULDN'T be dying. He wants them alive. What is so bad about that? I don't understand what this obsession is with people 'not supporting the troops' because they don't support the war. If you ask me, it's better support for the troops if you don't support the war. If I was over there getting my ass shot at I'd be thanking the people saying that the war is pointless and I should come home a HELL of a lot more than the people saying I should stay there longer, and that they should send more people over there to get THEIR asses shot at. And IH8Stupidppl isn't putting an attacker's life above anyone's... he's putting the life of an attacker's human shield. Did you even read his posts? Like he said, if a gunman had a hostage here in a building and we blew up the building, that would be considered immoral, wouldn't it? Why isn't it immoral when we do the same thing elsewhere? __________________ I am very tired. Last edited by Krylo; 06-08-2004 at 09:34 PM.

06-09-2004, 04:03 AM	#49
pfcq Goomba Join Date: May 2004 Location: for the next year...bagdad Posts: 21	"Thank you Krylo. Well said. I just have to shake my head at this angry, hyper-defensive attitude some people take. I respect people in the military, I don't hate them. If I question the Pentagon or the Administration, how does that imply I hate servicemen and women?" Hyper defensive am I? Damn I wonder if that was because you said something along the lines of "Your friends died for no reason". Humm I wonder, but hell your the teacher right? Tell me, did I fly off the handle? I stand by my last post. I truely think your worthless "Omega" and hell so does my whole frickin Sqd. "Absolutely correct. Military personnel are clearly the only individuals capable of judging political issues and deserving of an opinion on them. Thank god we ended that idiotic "civilian control of the military" and instituted the policy of only allowing military veterans to vote. ... Oh, wait a second... that wasn't America, that was Starship Troopers. Whoops. My bad." Thats it wiseass, the military decided we should go to war. Heres a clue, No...soldier...ever...wants...to...go...to...war. Wow amazing huh, that the very people sent to these battlezones are the last ones willing to go? (well, not the last I guess, I mean your not down here right?) Know what happens when some gun-ho idiot tries to join the military? He gets dropped almost always withen the first year of his enlistment. I've been in...year and a half now? (And trust me I'm finishing my 5 year tour) The people over here, for the most part, belive in what we're doing. The rest have had too many friends killed to care about anything then above getting through each day. Or they have been extended. See the thing that gets me is that, for the most part none of you have been to war (common them huh?) It would be like me saying that teaching is a worthless enderver, cause most kids nowadays don't give a damn and most tests they take are worthless in the first place, when I've never steped in a classroom as a teacher. Hell its cool that you guys hate the war. Fine whatever, alot of us over here don't really care what you people think. We're too busy getting shot at and blown up and killing innocent human shields and blowing up schools and whatnot to pay any attention on whats going on at home. I was just unlucky enough ta have some freetime to find this stupid thread. Why do I keep posting then? Simple. Too many of you have insulted my honor and convictions and those of my friends for me to shut up. Therefor I make it my mission to piss off each and every one of you (ok most of you at any rate) and show you how fuggin ignorent you all seem to the military end. Hate me, love me, whatever. Hooah (More military pride I know...Sick isn't it?) __________________ "How do you shoot women and children?" "Easy you dont lead em as much" "You know I had a speach to go with this but since you pissed me off I think I'll just kill you...now"

06-08-2004, 09:03 PM	#43
Raerlynn Lurker Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Near St. Louis Posts: 561	"The point of war isn't to die for your country, it's to make some poor bastard die for his" That sums up my view of the war. My opinion: You point any kind of weapon at me/friends/loved ones, then yes, your life becomes insignificant to the lives of those that I know. That's pretty simple math to me. Fight or Flight. Remember that? Flight doesn't work well against something that travels faster than you can see. To the person who said that servicemen died for nothing: (Note that this from someone who really isn't much of a religious person) Go directly to hell, do not pass hell, do not collect $200. My family is military. My friends are military. My job is a military civilian. Tell me that they are fighting for nothing at all. They're just there to make noise and be racist asses, right? Quite literally, you fall under the category of "media pundits" who don't have a damn clue, because you're not out there. IH8Stupidppl: I would mock your morals. In a heartbeat. You're telling me that given the choice between your friend's life, or your attacker's, you would rather your friend dies? Glad I'm not your friend. Morality is right or wrong. When someone attacks me/my friends/family, that is wrong. I move to correct that wrong. This starts at, "DROP IT!", escalates into disarming, into broken limbs, and as a last resort, death of the attacker. There is no time for you to debate with someone that wants you dead, when they have the means to make their wish true. You either choose if you want to suffer from someone else's wrong, or make them suffer for attempting it on you.

06-09-2004, 08:47 AM	#50
Omega Mage Zero Troopa Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 53	[QUOTE=pfcqThats it wiseass, the military decided we should go to war. Heres a clue, No...soldier...ever...wants...to...go...to...war. Wow amazing huh, that the very people sent to these battlezones are the last ones willing to go? (well, not the last I guess, I mean your not down here right?) Know what happens when some gun-ho idiot tries to join the military? He gets dropped almost always withen the first year of his enlistment. I've been in...year and a half now? (And trust me I'm finishing my 5 year tour) The people over here, for the most part, belive in what we're doing. The rest have had too many friends killed to care about anything then above getting through each day. Or they have been extended. See the thing that gets me is that, for the most part none of you have been to war (common them huh?) It would be like me saying that teaching is a worthless enderver, cause most kids nowadays don't give a damn and most tests they take are worthless in the first place, when I've never steped in a classroom as a teacher.[/QUOTE] No, the Mil;itary did NOT decide to go to war. They were SENT, by the president and his administration. The military doesn't choose who to fight, they get to choose how if they're lucky. As Fifthfiend cleverly pointed, civilians control the military, not vice versa. We don't live in a Facist/Military Dictatorship yet, despite the best efforts of some. Also, kid, you may be in the service, but you don't speak for everyone in it. My Father and two of his brothers were in Vietnam, they didn't believe in what they were doing then and they certainly don't now. As I mentioned earlier, two of my friends from high school have returned from Iraq and neither of them think like you do. They are quite strongly against this war and the current administration. No, I haven't been in the army and I've never been shot at. But what am I saying that's so infuriating to you? I say this war is wrong and Americans shouldn't be there getting killed for no good purpose. What do you believe? Is this a just war? Are we accomplishing something? In some of your earlier posts you said you didn't give a shit about Iraqis, so you're not there to help them. You said I would never understand the glory and honor of combat. Glory? Kid, FUCK glory! (Yeah, shocking language, sorry) Glory is nothing, are you there for glory and honor? As for your Hooah and military pride, yes it is sickening if it's an unthinking pride.