Versus Thread III: Return of the Versus

[BitVyper]

Okay, a word on guns first of all. For one thing, all those bullets Cloud is taking are coming from low levelled soldiers with shitty equipment. Try shooting him with Vincent, and you'll get a more realistic damage figure. A gun from someone like that can do nearly as much as Cloud's sword. Secondly, remember, he's not taking every shot to the head. HP is a concept that comes from Dungeons and Dragons, wherein it doesn't just account for actual damage. That 40 damage gunshot may not have actually hit Cloud, but it might have damaged his armour, or forced him to compensate in a manner that will make him easier to hit later. If you're going to say that he's actually taking those hits, then Cloud is stuck on a turn based battle system, waiting for his bar to fill up while Link rapes him. If Cloud wouldn't be able to take it in an FMV, then he can't take it. Link's health on the other hand, is accounted for in another manner. In fact, we could even say that those hearts he gets after bosses are not indicative of any increase in his skill, since that is dependant on the player, but actually magical, allowing him to take damage that a normal human wouldn't be able to. This accounts for him being able to sit at ground zero for an explosion, or huge magical attack, and take very little damage. A better indication of what Cloud can actually take would be Ergheiz, and I know that game sucked, but hey, I didn't make it Square did, and that's what counts.

As for strength, Link may not be able to handle Cloud's sword too well, but he could just start tossing boulders at the guy. If Link isn't allowed to use his other weapons though, then Cloud should be prevented from using his limit breakers, because those weapons make up a pretty big portion of his attacks.

Link is more likely to take advantage of any terrain that might be around. It's doubtful that Cloud would think to push him into a lavapool, or drop the ceiling on his head. Link is the better problem solver, so if there's anything in the area they fight that it's possible for him to take advantage of, he'll do it.

If it's based on pure sword skill alone, then Cloud will take it, as Link usually starts out having never picked up a sword before. Then again, Cloud technically hadn't either, but he still had spent some years as a sort of marine. If there are any variable factors in the area that they fight, Link will use them to his advantage. It's how he's brought down many other monsters that were a lot stronger than himself.

It's hard to say who will win, since they're on such incompatable systems, but I'm just saying, don't sell Link short.

Edit: Besides, I hate Cloud, his complexes, and his entire little game. At least Shinji had a giant robot. Cloud just had a giant phallus.

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by BitVyper

Okay, a word on guns first of all. For one thing, all those bullets Cloud is taking are coming from low levelled soldiers with shitty equipment. Try shooting him with Vincent, and you'll get a more realistic damage figure.

Or we could just try running him through completely with a seven foot kata... oh wait. They did that in the game. In a story sequence when he was still level one. He grabbed it in both hands, picked up the guy on the other side, and shook a sword that was stuck in his gut until he flung the guy off. Those damage figures are perfectly accurate in the case of someone capable of doing that.

Not to mention how he fell off a cliff and barely got knocked out... and had fell off before and only gotten a skinned knee.

It's important to remember here that Link may be the Hero of Time but Cloud was exposed to Jenova cells and mako radiation to change his cellular/genetic make-up in an attempt to make a 'Sephiroth Clone'. He was made faster, stronger, and more resilient to damage than a normal person could ever be.

Besides: I have shot him with Vincent's gun or his own blade in game. It still won't kill him.

Secondly, remember, he's not taking every shot to the head. HP is a concept that comes from Dungeons and Dragons, wherein it doesn't just account for actual damage. That 40 damage gunshot may not have actually hit Cloud, but it might have damaged his armour, or forced him to compensate in a manner that will make him easier to hit later. If you're going to say that he's actually taking those hits, then Cloud is stuck on a turn based battle system, waiting for his bar to fill up while Link rapes him. If Cloud wouldn't be able to take it in an FMV, then he can't take it.

I forgot why I split this quote up, because I already responded to everything here up above. eh.

Link's health on the other hand, is accounted for in another manner. In fact, we could even say that those hearts he gets after bosses are not indicative of any increase in his skill, since that is dependant on the player, but actually magical, allowing him to take damage that a normal human wouldn't be able to. This accounts for him being able to sit at ground zero for an explosion, or huge magical attack, and take very little damage.

So why is it that Link 'magically' gets something that's never explained in battle while Cloud's is relegated to 'misses'? That makes no sense at all. Link's hp bar is just HP displayed graphically. In the code it's still just a number. Is it because you can dodge on your own? Well Cloud can dodge attacks as well, you just have to rely on his stats. Or maybe we're supposed to say that in every game where you have control over whether you get hit hp is a game mechanic, while in every game you don't it's not. Except that leaves people like Aya from Parasite Eve as gods. She can take bullet sprays and crocodile teeth, easilly, if you don't move her out of the way.

If Cloud's hp are a game mechanic than so are Link's

As for strength, Link may not be able to handle Cloud's sword too well, but he could just start tossing boulders at the guy.

Trying to toss a boulder would be suicide. It's slow as hell, and Cloud's fast as hell. In the time Link took to bend over, heft it out of the ground, and then slowly step around to face Cloud, he'd have a sword jammed in his face.

If Link isn't allowed to use his other weapons though, then Cloud should be prevented from using his limit breakers, because those weapons make up a pretty big portion of his attacks.

No one said he couldn't. Just that he couldn't use magic. He can use arrows, bottles, the hookshot, bombs, etc. etc. Just not things like Din's fire or Naryu's love.

Link is more likely to take advantage of any terrain that might be around. It's doubtful that Cloud would think to push him into a lavapool, or drop the ceiling on his head.

Final Fantasy Tactics says different. And yes, Cloud is an optional character you can pick up there.

Link is the better problem solver, so if there's anything in the area they fight that it's possible for him to take advantage of, he'll do it.

The entirity of FF7 was you, as Cloud, solving problems, navigating mazes, and fighting. They're both in puzzle/maze based games. How is Link the better problem solver?

If it's based on pure sword skill alone, then Cloud will take it, as Link usually starts out having never picked up a sword before. Then again, Cloud technically hadn't either, but he still had spent some years as a sort of marine. If there are any variable factors in the area that they fight, Link will use them to his advantage. It's how he's brought down many other monsters that were a lot stronger than himself.

So one second you're saying Cloud was trained as a marine, and then in the next you're saying he won't use the terrain to his advantage? Do you have any idea what military training entails? Of course Cloud would use them to his advantage as well. That's just another point against Link being the only one capable of using his brain.

It's hard to say who will win, since they're on such incompatable systems, but I'm just saying, don't sell Link short.

We could always use Cloud from KH to make it a bit more compatible, if you REALLY want. He's fast as hell, can move beyond the speed of sound while producing a force field around himself in a charge, can leap a good six feet in the air, etc. etc.

Edit: Besides, I hate Cloud, his whining, and his entire little game. At least Shinji had a giant robot. Cloud just had a giant phallus.

And I hate people that like to weigh into fights using gut emotional reactions instead of thinking of the actual strengths and weaknesses of the characters involved. It kind of removes the whole point.

This isn't popularity contest royale.

[BitVyper]

I'm running off to work right now, so I won't respond to the entire post, as I'm sure someone else will do that for me. One, Cloud was nearly dead after the little sword incident. If you were to actually see him in battle at that point, he'd probably have 1 hp. Assuming we're both talking about his little scrap with Sephiroth. Also, That was probably a shoulder wound, not hitting any organs.

Two, calm down there. The little bit about Cloud at the end was a joke, and had nothing to do with my gauging of their abilities. I think most people will clue in around the time I call his sword a phallus. Please note the following quote:

It's hard to say who will win, since they're on such incompatable systems, but I'm just saying, don't sell Link short.

Anyway, I'm off to a meeting. Peace outside!

[Krylo]

One, Cloud was nearly dead after the little sword incident. If you were to actually see him in battle at that point, he'd probably have 1 hp. Assuming we're both talking about his little scrap with Sephiroth. Also, That was probably a shoulder wound, not hitting any organs.

Firstly: That sword was very obviously in his stomach. His hands reached down into his center, not up to one side.

Secondly: Yes, he would have had 1 hp left, most likely, but he was also much much much weaker then than he becomes through the game. That was before Hojo and his little band of do-badders even kidnapped him along with an actual soldier and locked him up in the Shinra mansion to do tests on him with mako and jenova cells. Which, as I said, increased his physical stamina, strength, speed, and anything else related to physical abilities, to levels far beyond that of a normal human... or what he was capable of before.

Besides, have you ever had something stabbed in you and then wiggled? It hurts like a bitch even if the woman drawing your blood doesn't have steady hands. Getting run through alone is enough to force most people to pass out/die. He got run through and then shook the thing in his stomach violently.

Two, calm down there. The little bit about Cloud at the end was a joke, and had nothing to do with my gauging of their abilities. I think most people will clue in around the time I call his sword a phallus.

Actually, I was pretty sure that YOU weren't being serious, but every time we have a fight with Sephiroth, Cloud, Tidus, or anyone else that's both male and effeminate in appearance we have a bunch of people saying the exact same things, only seriously.

"Sephiroth's just a big momma's boy!" "He'd have a mental breakdown five seconds in" "Tidus would probably just start crying and then get killed" so on and so forth.

Probably not the best time/person to bother taking out my annoyance on, because you weren't even doing it seriously... but so many people... so often...

[Mad Jack the Pirate]

Also, whereas Cloud has to get his ass handed to him for a half an hour to charge up a blade beam, link can do it right off the bat.

moreover, I'd like to see Cloud survive getting run over by an office-building sized Dinosaur that think's it's sonic and get back up again, WHEN HE'S 8 YEARS OLD.

also - Link's stamina is also inhuman. such as running across a lake of lava, getting hit by car-sized boulders, jumping off of a cliff to land on the ground, swimming through acid, getting toasted, run over, smacked around, polymorphed, hit head-onn with a cannonball, being thrown into a wall of three-foot-long spikes, and being hit with a sword with enough force behind it to shatter rocks the size of pickups, all with just getting the hell back up a second later.

and so is his strength. J-cells or no j-cells, Cloud isn't going to be picking up rock towers four stories high and throwing them a few yards away with enough force to shatter them into dust.

Speed? two words: Pegasus boots.

Moreover, a grenade is the size of a large man's fist. they do a few hundred points of damage to cloud. whereas, Link can be standing right next to a Powder keg that's bigger than he is when it goes off and suffer a few hearts of damage at the most.

FINALLY, I'd like to see what the hell cloud is going to do if Link decides to squash him in a literal sense and pulls out the Giant's mask to stomp him to death.

[Terex4]

Speed? two words: Pegasus boots.

Moreover, a grenade is the size of a large man's fist. they do a few hundred points of damage to cloud. whereas, Link can be standing right next to a Powder keg that's bigger than he is when it goes off and suffer a few hearts of damage at the most.

FINALLY, I'd like to see what the hell cloud is going to do if Link decides to squash him in a literal sense and pulls out the Giant's mask to stomp him to death.

While I do support Link as the winner, I would give Cloud the benefit of one Link game, especially since Link has the annoying habit of ditching his gear after every adventure.

For the sake of the fight, I'm going with Ocarina of Time Link (adult version).

When Cloud took the sword to the gut, he was under a lot of emotional stress (Tifa) and had the adrenaline to lift Sephiroth and chuck him. Under normal circumstances (J-cells or no) he wouldn't be able to reenact that moment.

I'll try to break down their qualifications as best I can:

Cloud: Got skinned knees from falling off a cliff.
Link: About the same, maybe his legs hurt a bit more.

Cloud: Expert swordsman
Link: Same

Cloud: Grenades as backup
Link: Slew of items for all kinds of situations

Link has the melee advantage of a shield, and for anyone who was any good at Ocarina of Time, that shield kept you from taking virtually any damage. Cloud does more damage by using both hands but its harder for him to hit Link whereas Link only has to parry and strike before Cloud can regain his stance.

I think it would almost resemble fighting a faster, more powerful stalfos using both hands if you want a simulation to imagine.

[Krylo]

moreover, I'd like to see Cloud survive getting run over by an office-building sized Dinosaur that think's it's sonic and get back up again, WHEN HE'S 8 YEARS OLD.

also - Link's stamina is also inhuman. such as running across a lake of lava, getting hit by car-sized boulders, jumping off of a cliff to land on the ground, swimming through acid, getting toasted, run over, smacked around, polymorphed, hit head-onn with a cannonball, being thrown into a wall of three-foot-long spikes, and being hit with a sword with enough force behind it to shatter rocks the size of pickups, all with just getting the hell back up a second later.

Well, there's the planet destroying attack One Winged Angel Sephiroth uses, there's the beams the weapons use, or the being stomped on by giant metallic monsters, there's the battling one of those while holding his breath, there's fighting giant walls, so on and so forth.

Also, in the newer games, link doesn't really get to run over lava a whole lot. Without, you know, dying almost immediately.

and so is his strength. J-cells or no j-cells, Cloud isn't going to be picking up rock towers four stories high and throwing them a few yards away with enough force to shatter them into dust.

Maybe not, but for some unbeknownst reason, those gauntlets only let him pick stuff up. They never make his sword attacks do more damage or anything of that order. So he's stronger in the sense he can lift and throw things... but it's useless in every other way.

Speed? two words: Pegasus boots.

He has to charge up to use the pegasus boots in all the games they're in. Cloud can charge instantantly. He might gain equal running speed to Cloud with those, but he still doesn't match reflexes. He also doesn't get to move his arms as quickly as Cloud can, which still leaves him shit out of luck in a fight.

Moreover, a grenade is the size of a large man's fist. they do a few hundred points of damage to cloud. whereas, Link can be standing right next to a Powder keg that's bigger than he is when it goes off and suffer a few hearts of damage at the most.

Actually, a powder keg and grenade are about equal as far as damage by standing next to it, and Cloud usually takes one hundred fifty or less, depending on level, from a grenade.

You see, grenades are designed for optimal killing in a small package. This means they have shrapnel built right in. Small sharp pieces of metal that are thrown out with the explosive force in order to rip someone to shreds.

A powder keg has that as well, in the form of wood. Other than that it's just fire... which helps weaken the wood. Not nearly as deadly, until you consider how much of it there is.

So... probably comes out about equal. One might be slightly more damaging than the other...

Further, that's a few hearts out of 16 at most or a hundred hp out of 9999. One 99th of a person's life is a lot less than one sixteenth. Even if it did 250, that's still only one 25th of his life.

FINALLY, I'd like to see what the hell cloud is going to do if Link decides to squash him in a literal sense and pulls out the Giant's mask to stomp him to death.

I'm pretty sure that would be magic again. And he'd probably do the same thing he did to the weapons.

Cloud: Expert swordsman
Link: Same

Bullshit. You don't get to be an expert swordsman by being handed a sword at 8 and then locked inside a magical crystal until you're 17 or 18 or whatever he was when they let him out to fight Ganon. You become some kid with a magic sword.

Link was acrobatic, no mistake. But don't mistake being able to jump around while still pointing a sword at something as skill. He's maybe an expert gymnast... or something of that accord. But he didn't hold a sword long enough to be an expert swordsman.

And, without the skill, everything else falls apart.

I'd say it'd be more like fighting a faster, stronger, more skilled swordmaster from Wind Waker, the guy who gives you your sword and then trains you on how to parry and stuff... in a few hours of intense training.

[Mad Jack the Pirate]

Originally Posted by krylo

Well, there's the planet destroying attack One Winged Angel Sephiroth uses, there's the beams the weapons use, or the being stomped on by giant metallic monsters, there's the battling one of those while holding his breath, there's fighting giant walls, so on and so forth.

Amazing, really, how One-winged angel can destroy an entire solar system without instant game-overing you. it also does jack-shit damagewise to even characters like Yuffie, who had no J-cell enhancement and, as a ninja and thief, is not built for taking hits. Supernova is not a powerful attack at all.

and Stomping whilst underwater is a WHOLE different ballgame than getting runover. Assuming that Emmy and King Dodongo are the same mass, Emmy has buoyancy working against him, trying to pull him upwards,, plus impacts are softened in water. KD, however, hits you while rolling at full-tilt, so he has momentum AND gravity on his side. Also, Cloud had far more experience at the time than Link did, plus a pair of sidekicks to use as meatshields. Link went against Dodongo alone, when he was 8 years old, and still won.

Cloud fought a wall? AMAZING. I mean, it's not like it's harder to fight a MOBILE opponent who's capable of DODGING.

Also, in the newer games, link doesn't really get to run over lava a whole lot. Without, you know, dying almost immediately.

Fire Temple, OoT. two big-ass pools of lava, Link can run circles in them for around 5 minutes before running out of hearts. Cloud however, winces when he walks into fire.

Maybe not, but for some unbeknownst reason, those gauntlets only let him pick stuff up. They never make his sword attacks do more damage or anything of that order. So he's stronger in the sense he can lift and throw things... but it's useless in every other way.

of course, that wouldn't stop link from just picking Cloud up and throwing him into a metal wall with enough force to shatter every bone in his body.

He has to charge up to use the pegasus boots in all the games they're in. Cloud can charge instantantly. He might gain equal running speed to Cloud with those, but he still doesn't match reflexes. He also doesn't get to move his arms as quickly as Cloud can, which still leaves him shit out of luck in a fight.

Cloud runs as slow as any human, look at the DAMN GAME. Peg boots however, kick link's speed up to insanity. also, nice comment on the Reflexes, if you don't know how to parry - otherwise Link can duck under Cloud's slashes. no matter what you want to say, Cloud is just a Darknut with no armor and more health in a swordfight.

Actually, a powder keg and grenade are about equal as far as damage by standing next to it, and Cloud usually takes one hundred fifty or less, depending on level, from a grenade.

You see, grenades are designed for optimal killing in a small package. This means they have shrapnel built right in. Small sharp pieces of metal that are thrown out with the explosive force in order to rip someone to shreds.

A powder keg has that as well, in the form of wood. Other than that it's just fire... which helps weaken the wood. Not nearly as deadly, until you consider how much of it there is.

So... probably comes out about equal. One might be slightly more damaging than the other...

AHAHAHA. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. you really believe that?

sorry johnny, but a man-sized barrel of gunpowder flash burns and expands with far more force than a hand grenade. consider for a moment, how little gunpowder is required to propel a bullet with suitable force out of a gun to shatter bone. a Powder keg blew a van-sized boulder to pebbles, yet Link still could take the blast.

Further, that's a few hearts out of 16 at most or a hundred hp out of 9999. One 99th of a person's life is a lot less than one sixteenth. Even if it did 250, that's still only one 25th of his life.

20 hearts, not counting the added defense the various armors Link gets, or the enhancement the Great Fairy gives him that cuts all damage in half. moreover, the scale of power between a Keg and a grenade is huge, so Cloud would still lose a huge amount of health.

I'm pretty sure that would be magic again. And he'd probably do the same thing he did to the weapons.

Yeah, the main problem with that is that the WEAPONS are, at most, up to Link's Knee when he wears the Giant's mask (which is an item). Kotr would probably give him a cut up leg, no more.

Bullshit. You don't get to be an expert swordsman by being handed a sword at 8 and then locked inside a magical crystal until you're 17 or 18 or whatever he was when they let him out to fight Ganon. You become some kid with a magic sword.

nice how you omit the stretch of time between those events that Link had to practice. moreover, cloud is only capable of swinging his sword at enemies until he gets beaten up and uses a Limit break, which are little better.

Link was acrobatic, no mistake. But don't mistake being able to jump around while still pointing a sword at something as skill. He's maybe an expert gymnast... or something of that accord. But he didn't hold a sword long enough to be an expert swordsman.

I'd hardly call backflipping above an enemy's head, landing on your feet, landing a spine hit on them and getting out of range "Jumping around with your sword pointed at someone".

And, without the skill, everything else falls apart.

much like Cloud's psyche every few minutes.

I'd say it'd be more like fighting a faster, stronger, more skilled swordmaster from Wind Waker, the guy who gives you your sword and then trains you on how to parry and stuff... in a few hours of intense training.

hahaha. hahahahaha. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

put down the Ps2 boy, it's POISONING YOUR BRAIN.

[Krylo]

and Stomping whilst underwater is a WHOLE different ballgame than getting runover. Assuming that Emmy and King Dodongo are the same mass, Emmy has buoyancy working against him, trying to pull him upwards,, plus impacts are softened in water. KD, however, hits you while rolling at full-tilt, so he has momentum AND gravity on his side. Also, Cloud had far more experience at the time than Link did, plus a pair of sidekicks to use as meatshields. Link went against Dodongo alone, when he was 8 years old, and still won.

Nevermind the Ruby weapon, Diamond, or whatever the flying weapon was. Or that the Emerald weapon was as big as an office building while the dodango was about fourteen to twenty feet tall, max.

AHAHAHA. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. you really believe that?

sorry johnny, but a man-sized barrel of gunpowder flash burns and expands with far more force than a hand grenade. consider for a moment, how little gunpowder is required to propel a bullet with suitable force out of a gun to shatter bone. a Powder keg blew a van-sized boulder to pebbles, yet Link still could take the blast.

What does more damage? Surface burns (flash burning) or bits of metal flying through your body. The powder keg is going to leave you ugly, and probably dead. But so is the grenade.

And boulders in legend of zelda games break extremely easily. Try using a powder keg to blow up a van sized boulder in the real world, or a little bomb to blow up a normal rock. Boulders are going to move before they're blasted to dust, and a powder keg is probably going to lack the power to even do that. Normal rocks break just from normal Link, or anyone else, throwing them... Link can throw a rock against a knight's head hard enough to shatter it into dust and barely even piss off the knight.

Put a powder keg next to a rock in a world where rocks don't seem to be made of sugar-glass. It's not going to do shit to it.

An equal mass of grenades will actually do significantly more, because those will be chipping away the rock with shrapnel blasts.

20 hearts, not counting the added defense the various armors Link gets, or the enhancement the Great Fairy gives him that cuts all damage in half. moreover, the scale of power between a Keg and a grenade is huge, so Cloud would still lose a huge amount of health.

A keg is generally just going to throw someone back from the concussive force, and then their hitting a wall will break some bones, and the flash burns might disfigure them. A grenade, again, fires off shrapnel.

As that you don't seem to understand what shrapnel IS, it's like having about ten sawed off shotguns go off next to, and into you. An explosion can be many many times more powerful, but if it doesn't have anything to throw it's still not going to be terribly effective at doing much more than throwing people around, or maybe taking a limb that's at point blank range.

nice how you omit the stretch of time between those events that Link had to practice. moreover, cloud is only capable of swinging his sword at enemies until he gets beaten up and uses a Limit break, which are little better.

That would be called a game mechanic. Everyone in damn near every turn-based RPG fights the same way. Yet in the FMVs and story sequences they have actual fights. Watch some of the fights from Advent Children or Kingdom Hearts that involve Cloud. He's very capable of more than that.

Also, the stretch of time that Link had to practice comes down to a few weeks, maybe a couple months, max, of him learning how to use the sword with no formal training what so ever.

Cloud spent years in the Shinra Military and then a few more years as a mercenary. He has FAR more sword experience than Link.

I'd hardly call backflipping above an enemy's head, landing on your feet, landing a spine hit on them and getting out of range "Jumping around with your sword pointed at someone".

Again, he was acrobatic. That's not swordsmanship, persay. Swordsmanship is your ability to parry with the sword, and to pull off extra manuevers, get inside guards, etc. etc. Link can't parry at all until windwaker, and even then he's not very damn good at it. And he's not very good at everything else either. He can swing his sword, what, four or five different ways plus stabbing in one way?

If you want to compare their skills as something they're both expert at, it would look more something like this:

Cloud, expert Swordsman
Link, expert Acrobat.

much like Cloud's psyche every few minutes.

every time we have a fight with Sephiroth, Cloud, Tidus, or anyone else that's both male and effeminate in appearance we have a bunch of people saying the exact same things, only seriously.

"Sephiroth's just a big momma's boy!" "He'd have a mental breakdown five seconds in" "Tidus would probably just start crying and then get killed" so on and so forth.

Probably not the best time/person to bother taking out my annoyance on, because you weren't even doing it seriously... but so many people... so often...

hahaha. hahahahaha. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

put down the Ps2 boy, it's POISONING YOUR BRAIN.

Now you're just being an idiot.

You don't like Cloud so you grasp at ways he should lose, continually bringing up abilities that Link isn't even allowed to use?

I like Link. I don't particularily care for Cloud. He was a shitty protagonist with a sketchy character that seemed slapped together almost all the time. He was poorly fleshed out, he interacted poorly, and his emotions were poorly represented.

However, he's stronger, faster, and more experienced than Link. And not by some small amount.


Anytime you see Link pull something amazing off, it's because YOU hit the right sequence of keys. In reality, someone with no training and no prior experience with a sword, like him, wouldn't have been able to do half the stuff some people can make him do with a sword. He'd be able to do what is generally needed to win. Hack and slash weaker enemies and get out of the way of their easily predictable attacks.

[Cloud Strife]

Originally Posted by Mad Jack the Pirate

Assuming that Emmy and King Dodongo are the same mass, Emmy has buoyancy working against him, trying to pull him upwards.

Ok, can you say 'metal'? Because THAT IS WHAT EMERALD WEAPON IS MADE OUT OF. He has NO bouyancy problems whatsoever. Besides, you try being kicked around and fighting for your life while holding your breath AT THE BOTTOM OF THE OCEAN for twenty minutes.

of course, that wouldn't stop link from just picking Cloud up and throwing him into a metal wall with enough force to shatter every bone in his body.

That, of course, is if CLOUD LETS LINK PICK HIM UP. Link is totally defenseless while trying to pick something up. Cloud would just lsice and dice before Link even started picking him up.

Cloud is just a Darknut with no armor and more health in a swordfight.

WTF? Where the hell have you been? Cloud can withstand being stomped on by something about 50 times his size, and WELL over 500 times his weight.

Yeah, the main problem with that is that the WEAPONS are, at most, up to Link's Knee when he wears the Giant's mask (which is an item). Kotr would probably give him a cut up leg, no more.

OK, that is straight up Bulls**t. Remember the scene with the Junon Cannon firing at Weapon? Yeah, that barrel was about the same size as the barrel of your average HUNTING RIFLE compared to Weapon. There is NO WAY the Link would dwarf the Weapons. Equal in size, maybe, but KOTR would still equal him in size with the Giant's mask on. AT LEAST.

nice how you omit the stretch of time between those events that Link had to practice.

What practice? according to OoT, Link was basically placed in a form of cryogenic stasis. You expect him to be some sort of master swordsman after waking up from a 7 year nap? Yeah, right.