Versus Thread III: Return of the Versus - Page 78

GatoFiero · 10-06-2004, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonsbane

Nah, it was several battle droids...at once. Mace Windu is, in my opinion, the great great great great (insert several more greats) grandson of Morpheus, with all of his badass qualities and skills.

I don’t mean to nit pick…well I am so saying that is stupid now isn’t it?

Star Wars takes place “long ago in a galaxy far far away.” The matrix takes place in the future. Assuming that there is a relation, Windu would be Morpheus’ #th great grandfather. This would make Windu the proto Morpheus’ and he would have all the raw unrefined badass that would later be condensed into Morpheus.

Dragonsbane · 10-06-2004, 05:15 PM

yes, but in all probability that "long ago" statement was hyperbole

after all, humans existed back then, didn't they?

[edit]Krylo....I don't hate Cloud OR Sephiroth, I just detest their rabid fans. Hell, I may think they have their weaknesses and bad traits, that doesn't mean I utterly despise them.

And I am NOT a Raistlin fanboy, any more than IHMN is a Goku fanboy.

please, stop using me in these little examples. I've done my best since the end of that feud with IHMN to stay reasonably fair in these fights. I actually prefer Link as a character, but that doesn't prohibit me from saying Cloud has a very good chance of winning.

Genkotsu, there are plenty of reasons to reduce a sword's weight...for one thing, you can strike faster with it. Now, for an otherwise normal sword, this would be terrible, but an enchanted sword might be able to do the same amount of damage while remaining able to strike more often and with less difficulty.

BitVyper · 10-06-2004, 05:44 PM

If you reduce the sword's weight, then you might as well be using an enchanted stilleto. The entire point of having a large sword is greater momentum. A large blade will still be unwieldy though, even if you make it light. In fact, it will be more or less useless for the typical techniques employed with a larger sword, and by 'typical techniques,' I mean pretty much anything you would think to do with a big sword.

Edit: And yes, I agree. Stop making this personal.

Terex4 · 10-06-2004, 05:54 PM

Quote:

I'm only an anti-fanboy in the sense that I hate it when people inflate Cloud's abilities beyond reason, as you do.

And you've been trying to inflate Link's beyond reason. He's no wizard. The best you can compare his spell casting ability to is a bard and they have very little spell ability as it is. A wizard is someone who specializes in magic, Link dabbles. If he were a wizard we'd be pitting him against Elminster.

I'm saying Link mostly because without materia, Cloud loses a lot of his potency in melee combat. Hell, he was practically worthless until I got multiple cut and HP boosters.

As far as putting down weapons in order to use items, that wouldn't necessarily be the case. In game mechanics they do, but its not hard to lob a grenade while holding your sword and most of Link's items are used with one hand.

I'll re post what I said before about their styles.

Quote:

I have to give Cloud a bit more of an edge than I previously did because I didn't take into account how powerful his swing really is. Link would be able to continue to parry and thrust but his arm would still have to take the force of the blow and his return swing probably couldn't reach Cloud.

So now we have a stalemate.

That's where I believe the acrobatics factor in. If Cloud can't penetrate Link's shield, and Link can't reach Cloud, then it comes down to who can maneuver the best between them. I'm giving this one to Link (granted I've never even seen Kingdom Hearts or Advent Children so I don't know how well Cloud can maneuver around someone....)

Genkotsu Ikaru · 10-06-2004, 07:45 PM

No, not really. The background gives me full reason to describe Link as just that. Even uses the word specifically, at some point. I don't recall where, exactly, but in the material provided for us, the game company told us he was a wizard. Whether or not he actually qualifies as that, you can't deny that he, of the two characters, is the only one with innate magic ability, and therefore, must be the better magic user. But again, for the sake of argument, I'm willing to try to set magic aside one more time and concentrate on the sword.

Cloud doesn't really have that significant a reach advantage. Take into account Link's mobility, and it's nullified entirely. Therefore, if Link can block or parry, he's good to go. And once again, if there is a difference in strength, it can't be assumed to be enough to simply batter through Link's guard. He's damn strong too. A lot of the argument in favor of Cloud's swordsmanship ability revolves around his strength. As the arguments there have gone back and forth, can we please assume that neither has an advantage?

And without that advantage, Cloud has nothing going for him, in terms of swordsmanship. Link's got him in terms of experience, tactics, and practicality of his weapons.

As far as items go... No. Have any of you ever thrown a grenade? I have. Trying to do it with one hand is more or less impossible. Pulling a pin with your teeth is going to accomplish one thing - loss of teeth. Lighting a fuse one-handed is even worse, though it might simply be that Link lights it with a tiny flow of magic. And I can't even begin to describe the horror of using a hookshot or boomerang in melee combat range. So items are simply not a consideration for this fight. The second Cloud puts that cleaver on his back, or Link sheathes his sword, the other guy guts him. And they're both good enough fighters to know that, so we can't let that decide the match either.

And yes, being personal about this is silly.

BitVyper · 10-06-2004, 11:09 PM

Link also has a sword that, in its weakest incarnation, reflects magic and shoots lasers. It's been upgraded twice since then, so even without magic or items, Link has ranged attacks. He also has a shield that's been known to absorb and reflect various attacks, including shots from giant swords.

Edit: Sun Tzu vs Scipio in a game of Risk.

Fighterdoken · 10-07-2004, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BitVyper

Link also has a sword that, in its weakest incarnation, reflects magic and shoots lasers. It's been upgraded twice since then, so even without magic or items, Link has ranged attacks. He also has a shield that's been known to absorb and reflect various attacks, including shots from giant swords.

Edit: Sun Tzu vs Scipio in a game of Risk.

Scipio, risk would have been his kind of game...

An army of midgets Vs. Tony Blair in a game of hop-scotch.

Me-Doken

Toastburner B · 10-07-2004, 10:05 AM

I'd have to say Tony Blair. Having an army of midgets trying to play hop-scotch is just hard. You can't fit that many on to the board/thing.

...What the heck do you call that thing you place hop-scotch on?

Well, since Link seems to have a pretty good following here, I'll post one I think will be real close either way:

Link (Specifically, the OoT Link, as that is the one I know best)
vs.
Kain (Specifically, the "Legacy of Kain: Defiance" Kain, as that is the one I know best).

Fighterdoken · 10-07-2004, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toastburner B

I'd have to say Tony Blair. Having an army of midgets trying to play hop-scotch is just hard. You can't fit that many on to the board/thing.

...What the heck do you call that thing you place hop-scotch on?

Well, since Link seems to have a pretty good following here, I'll post one I think will be real close either way:

Link (Specifically, the OoT Link, as that is the one I know best)
vs.
Kain (Specifically, the "Legacy of Kain: Defiance" Kain, as that is the one I know best).

Someone who is unbiased can take that one... whew!

Me-Doken

G.I.R. · 10-07-2004, 10:33 AM

Anakin Solo vs Anakin Skywalker

10-06-2004, 05:44 PM	#773
BitVyper History's Strongest Dilettante Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Arcadia Posts: 6,662	If you reduce the sword's weight, then you might as well be using an enchanted stilleto. The entire point of having a large sword is greater momentum. A large blade will still be unwieldy though, even if you make it light. In fact, it will be more or less useless for the typical techniques employed with a larger sword, and by 'typical techniques,' I mean pretty much anything you would think to do with a big sword. Edit: And yes, I agree. Stop making this personal. __________________ "There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea is asleep, and the rivers dream. People made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace; we've got work to do!" Awesome art be here. Last edited by BitVyper; 10-06-2004 at 05:49 PM.

10-06-2004, 11:09 PM	#776
BitVyper History's Strongest Dilettante Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Arcadia Posts: 6,662	Link also has a sword that, in its weakest incarnation, reflects magic and shoots lasers. It's been upgraded twice since then, so even without magic or items, Link has ranged attacks. He also has a shield that's been known to absorb and reflect various attacks, including shots from giant swords. Edit: Sun Tzu vs Scipio in a game of Risk. __________________ "There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea is asleep, and the rivers dream. People made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace; we've got work to do!" Awesome art be here. Last edited by BitVyper; 10-06-2004 at 11:14 PM.

10-07-2004, 10:05 AM	#778
Toastburner B Toasty has left the building Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hiding...because I don't want to die. Posts: 3,936	I'd have to say Tony Blair. Having an army of midgets trying to play hop-scotch is just hard. You can't fit that many on to the board/thing. ...What the heck do you call that thing you place hop-scotch on? Well, since Link seems to have a pretty good following here, I'll post one I think will be real close either way: Link (Specifically, the OoT Link, as that is the one I know best) vs. Kain (Specifically, the "Legacy of Kain: Defiance" Kain, as that is the one I know best). __________________ I came, I saw, I got team-killed. A lot.

10-06-2004, 07:45 PM	#775
Genkotsu Ikaru Troopa Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Kansas Posts: 69	No, not really. The background gives me full reason to describe Link as just that. Even uses the word specifically, at some point. I don't recall where, exactly, but in the material provided for us, the game company told us he was a wizard. Whether or not he actually qualifies as that, you can't deny that he, of the two characters, is the only one with innate magic ability, and therefore, must be the better magic user. But again, for the sake of argument, I'm willing to try to set magic aside one more time and concentrate on the sword. Cloud doesn't really have that significant a reach advantage. Take into account Link's mobility, and it's nullified entirely. Therefore, if Link can block or parry, he's good to go. And once again, if there is a difference in strength, it can't be assumed to be enough to simply batter through Link's guard. He's damn strong too. A lot of the argument in favor of Cloud's swordsmanship ability revolves around his strength. As the arguments there have gone back and forth, can we please assume that neither has an advantage? And without that advantage, Cloud has nothing going for him, in terms of swordsmanship. Link's got him in terms of experience, tactics, and practicality of his weapons. As far as items go... No. Have any of you ever thrown a grenade? I have. Trying to do it with one hand is more or less impossible. Pulling a pin with your teeth is going to accomplish one thing - loss of teeth. Lighting a fuse one-handed is even worse, though it might simply be that Link lights it with a tiny flow of magic. And I can't even begin to describe the horror of using a hookshot or boomerang in melee combat range. So items are simply not a consideration for this fight. The second Cloud puts that cleaver on his back, or Link sheathes his sword, the other guy guts him. And they're both good enough fighters to know that, so we can't let that decide the match either. And yes, being personal about this is silly.