Versus Thread III: Return of the Versus

[BitVyper]

That's tricky. With all of his abilities, Kain can be pretty damn powerful, and he has the purified Soul Reaver now (how does something name, "Soul Reaver," become pure?) He really doesn't use many of his tricks in Defiance.

Link has range, but Kain can close the gap really fast, or just turn into mist if he has to. Both of them are intelligent, quick thinkers, often solving puzzles in the middle of combat. Kain's telekinesis will be a pain, but Link can fight back with magic. Both have fought against all the odds by themselves and succeeded, although Kain typically had EVERYONE working against him, so he gets a little advantage here.

I'm going with Link wielding the upgraded Master Sword because Kain has easily exploitable weaknesses, like water, and both of them have typically fought their opponents by using those sorts of things.

Thought up a couple more while I was writing this, so lets see what people think:

Solid Snake vs Snake Eyes in a (supposedly) abandoned warehouse with several floors, moderate lighting, weapons hidden throughout, and American soldiers attempting to protect the latest Metal Gear. Solid Snake is there to take the weapon out before it is completed, and Snake Eyes is there to protect it, but is under orders to remain hidden from the soldiers. Neither knows the other is there to begin with, and if either is noticed by the soldiers, the mission is failed. Assume that each has a spotter gabbing in their ear too. Solid Snake has a charge that, if placed on a specific part of the new Metal Gear, will be able take the whole thing out due to a design flaw that hasn't been worked out yet.

Ryu Hayabusa vs Atma Weapon (FFVI, floating continent, not Kefka's tower)

Ranma Saotome vs Fei Fong Wong. No mecha.

Edit: Oh, if it's Defiance Kain vs OoT Link, then Link wins for the same reasons, only more easily because Kain is missing like, half of his abilities (despite Defiance being a fucking awesome game.)

[Dragonsbane]

About the Cloud vs. Link thing...which of them has done more? I mean, Cloud killed Sephiroth, but he had a team with him. Link had to save the world again, and again, and again, and again...all by himself.

Link would appear to have more experience in heroic adventures and battling monsters. In a non-magic fight, this gives him the win out of weapons experience, and the versatility of the many, many items he carries with him.

[Krylo]

About the Cloud vs. Link thing...which of them has done more? I mean, Cloud killed Sephiroth, but he had a team with him. Link had to save the world again, and again, and again, and again...all by himself.

Link would appear to have more experience in heroic adventures and battling monsters. In a non-magic fight, this gives him the win out of weapons experience, and the versatility of the many, many items he carries with him.

You're forgetting that every game was a different Link, though. So, really, he doesn't get all that much experience.

I'll admit Cloud's going to lose if we take away his strength, however. He's still stronger than Link on the basis that Link can barely wield the Big Goron Sword and Cloud can lift swords just as big, and bigger than that, over his head with one hand and spin them, as well as moving them faster than Link moves his broadsword.

But you take away his strength, and you take away his ability to wield his weapon effectively. If he was stuck floundering with it as much as Link floundered with the Big Goron Sword he'd be toast.

And as for suggesting that Cloud would most likely be able to batter through Link's defenses... Cloud's sword is as big as Link, and probably weighs more. He swings that thing as fast as a normal person would swing a baseball bat. If you block something that weighs more than you being swung as hard as a baseball bat, you're probably going to go flying, much like a baseball.

Also: Atma Weapon beats Hayabusa. Hayabusa was just a ninja, Atma Weapon was the alpha and the omega.

Fei Fong Wong murdalizes Ranma. Ranma never destroyed gears with his bare hands without even showing effort. Fei was able to do just that... to strong gears.

And about the Jedi thing... where I said Windu took apart the one, I meant the one he actually made all the bolts float out of and let it fall apart in the middle of the battle. He destroyed many many others.

[My Lead Airbag]

Actually if I remember right, he force tore the robot into spare parts, then shot them into OTHER droids, killing them.

[BitVyper]

Hayabusa was a demon killing super ninja. Have you seen the end bosses to his games?

Ranma cut up a few mountains and killed a god. He also fought the Orochi dragon if I recall correctly. Susano-O himself couldn't beat the Orochi dragon without getting it drunk and trapped. Besides, gears in the Ranma world would come to a predictable end at the hands of Cologne and Ryoga, and Ranma's beaten both of them.

[IHateMakingNames]

I used to have all the Clone Wars on Kazaa...

But from what I remember, Windu force pulled all of some robots screws out, then fired those screws at other robots, tearing them apart.

Of course, he did a lot of things in those two episodes, so he probably did everything everyone has mentioned.



Anyway, krylo has been saying everything needed to be said about the Cloud vs. Link fight, so I'll skip that.

(Edited out because there is no magic in this fight anyway, so it's pointless)


Ryu Hayabusa would put up a good fight, but unlike the bosses from his game, Atma Weapon would just toast him with a big blast of some magic spell. The biggest, strongest thing Ryu fought was one of the last bosses, and even then he needed a flying rock that came out of no where.


Ranma beats the other guy for reasons Bit stated.

[BitVyper]

Ryu Hayabusa would put up a good fight, but unlike the bosses from his game, Atma Weapon would just toast him with a big blast of some magic spell. The biggest, strongest thing Ryu fought was one of the last bosses, and even then he needed a flying rock that came out of no where.

This, I can agree with.

[Dragonsbane]

Originally Posted by krylo

You're forgetting that every game was a different Link, though. So, really, he doesn't get all that much experience.

I'll admit Cloud's going to lose if we take away his strength, however. He's still stronger than Link on the basis that Link can barely wield the Big Goron Sword and Cloud can lift swords just as big, and bigger than that, over his head with one hand and spin them, as well as moving them faster than Link moves his broadsword.

But you take away his strength, and you take away his ability to wield his weapon effectively. If he was stuck floundering with it as much as Link floundered with the Big Goron Sword he'd be toast.

And as for suggesting that Cloud would most likely be able to batter through Link's defenses... Cloud's sword is as big as Link, and probably weighs more. He swings that thing as fast as a normal person would swing a baseball bat. If you block something that weighs more than you being swung as hard as a baseball bat, you're probably going to go flying, much like a baseball.

And about the Jedi thing... where I said Windu took apart the one, I meant the one he actually made all the bolts float out of and let it fall apart in the middle of the battle. He destroyed many many others.

It's a different Link? Dammit...that teaches me to pay attention to dialogue instead of mindlessly killing monsters and solving puzzles!

Why are we taking away Cloud's strength? That's like taking away Raistlin's spells and intellect!

Cloud's weapon is ridiculous, but it makes sense that someone with his strength uses the equivalent of a big metal club.

That is why Link would dodge it, instead of standing there like a moron and taking the hit.

No, Mace did that to at least three at once, I think...

[IHateMakingNames]

Even if Link is able to dodge one of Cloud's attack, he wouldn't be able to attack and hit Cloud. In Advents Children, Cloud is fighting a guy who is fast enough to make after images of himself. Cloud dodges one of his attacks, attacks the fast guy, misses, then is able to dodge the fast guys first attack, then block the second one.

Link isn't that fast.

[Genkotsu Ikaru]

Originally Posted by krylo

You're forgetting that every game was a different Link, though. So, really, he doesn't get all that much experience.

And KH Cloud is not FFVII Cloud, either, and you want to include him. The character is removed from his original continuity, so it's not the same character. If you want to include KH Cloud, we count all versions of Link.

I'll admit Cloud's going to lose if we take away his strength, however. He's still stronger than Link on the basis that Link can barely wield the Big Goron Sword and Cloud can lift swords just as big, and bigger than that, over his head with one hand and spin them, as well as moving them faster than Link moves his broadsword.

But you take away his strength, and you take away his ability to wield his weapon effectively. If he was stuck floundering with it as much as Link floundered with the Big Goron Sword he'd be toast.

And as for suggesting that Cloud would most likely be able to batter through Link's defenses... Cloud's sword is as big as Link, and probably weighs more. He swings that thing as fast as a normal person would swing a baseball bat. If you block something that weighs more than you being swung as hard as a baseball bat, you're probably going to go flying, much like a baseball.

We're not taking away his strength. We're taking away his assumed strength advantage, because Link is arguably as strong. He's even had a sword roughly twice the size of the Buster Sword that he swung around like nobody's business.



The Great Fairy Sword: "Contrary to the other swords, this sword is a C-Button item, and can therefore not be used together with a shield. However, it is a strong sword, and it does more damage than any other sword in the game. Link obtains this item once he collects all the stray fairies in the Stone Tower Temple, and returns them to the Great Fairy."

Link has gone flying from attacks before, but only from immortal sorcerer-beasts that were over thirty feet tall. He can stand up to Cloud's swing, if he doesn't simply dodge it. Your argruments are still hinging on the idea that Cloud is stronger than Link, and it just can't be conclusively proven. There's even very good arguments that the opposite is true.

Also: Atma Weapon beats Hayabusa. Hayabusa was just a ninja, Atma Weapon was the alpha and the omega.

Fei Fong Wong murdalizes Ranma. Ranma never destroyed gears with his bare hands without even showing effort. Fei was able to do just that... to strong gears.

And about the Jedi thing... where I said Windu took apart the one, I meant the one he actually made all the bolts float out of and let it fall apart in the middle of the battle. He destroyed many many others.

These, I can agree or disagree with. Atma Weapon kills the ninja, no problem. Ranma wouldn't really care about gears, as they're mere metal - Ranma's smoked divine flesh before. And there's good arguments either way in the Jedi/X-Men battle. It'd be like psionics vs. magic is supposed to be. Sure, the Jedi have the Force, but the X-Men have reality manipulators and riduculously powerful TP/TK on their side. Not to mention direct energy attacks that make blaster fire look like cap guns, which the Jedi simply don't have.

Sun Tzu and Scipio would go both ways. Repeatedly. Those guys would meet for RISK once a year for the rest of their lives, and the deciding factor would be luck, every time. Sun Tzu wins one year, Scipio the next.

Snake/Snake would be ridiculous. No way to tell. They're basically the same character - highly trained sneaks with guns. If they ever encounter each other, it'd be a silenced firefight from hell, the winner mostly determined by luck. If they out-stealth each other and never even see each other, then Solid Snake wins - he places the charge, and escapes.