No child left Behind? - Page 2

Sato · 02-23-2005, 09:45 PM

The reason we have immigrants:

Since America thinks we don't deserve those jobs, were higher than that. Work ethic has gone down. What makes us united is work ethic, and if we stratle to close to be individualistic, then society can't run, with personal needs ahead of common welfare. Everyone should pitch in in every job. Everyone deserves what they get, because you should work for your college. I respect my friend, his mom is single and has a low paying job, my friend worked hard to get into college, and is paying for it himself by working all summer in low paying jobs, rather than one of the Bush sisters getting into Yale because of their father, even them being not the greatest students or scholars? Yah, he is trully a good person to do it himself, putting others needs in front of himself. And that will repay him later in life, or after life. I respect a immigrant woker rather than some spoiled kid raised and pampered all his life to get a great education, and waste it. That's why I believe the future is the immigrants, to re-establish the work ethic in America, and bring some common sense back to the nation. Now, I still wonder why you would go to Yale to become a teacher, or am I thinking of the wrong sister? Corect me if I'm wrong....

Feuermachtspass · 02-25-2005, 12:12 AM

on the one hand, i firmly believe in working your way through college. i know its kinda generic, but it really does build character. on the other hand, could you honestly look a parent that is financially well off and tell them that they cant do all they can to help their child get the finest education available? i really dont know anything about the bush twins, but i am not much of one for conspiracy theories. and be careful of generalizations about the rich. just cuz someone is rich, that doesnt mean hes a snob. one of my friends' father is very well off, but you could never meet a friendlier HUMBLER person than my friend.

Nikkoru · 02-25-2005, 12:47 AM

For someone to use their family influence to get into a university which they don't have the grades to normally be allowed into seems to me to be morally questionable, as someone without influence wouldn't have the ability to do so. I guess the point I am trying to make is that it should be even for people of any class to get into anywhere if they have the ability. If Jenna and Barbra worked hard and got grades befitting the college/university they attend, I wouldn't care even if they got some help from their father - however if they got lousy grades and got into the same place where someone who doesn't have family influence would have to work extremely hard to get into - that is wrong.

Dante · 02-25-2005, 02:44 AM

I don't believe that no child should be left behind. But its easy to disagree with such a sweeping statement.

I feel that the statement is impractical primarily because educating every child, to the maximum level possible, would have to involve lowering standards at the higher level of education, as mentioned before.

Additionally, this assumes that all children want to learn, and that all knowledge (at least the syllabus covered in said education) is essential for all children. The fact is, you don't need a lot of education for most jobs. Nor do all children have the desire to conform to society's demands.

So what can be done? I suppose the approach of giving everyone a minimal education and furthering the studies of those who wish to learn more is ideal, or at least close to it.

Feuermachtspass · 02-25-2005, 12:53 PM

i think that if we had more trade schools, perhaps that would help. a general education is very nice to have. its nice to be able to participate relatively intelligently in forums like this without having to talk out of your butt.

that being said, children can choose at around the high school level what they want to do and go to a school that will train them to do just that. then if they change their mind later, they can go back to a university.

Napoleon98 · 02-25-2005, 01:17 PM

It's a fact, school is formatted to favor aural and reading/writing learners, and to a lesser extent visual learners. If you like to learn things "hands-on" then you are at a disadvantage, but its the way it's going to be, visual learners have a slight disadvantage as well, but not as bad as the kinesthetic's. The only way to effectively "leave no child behind" would to formatt school so that it was a better balance of learning hands-on and lectures... but like it was said earlier, some lessons can only be tought through lectures. Not to mention IMO we need to ditch standardized testing for the most part. My ENTIRE 1-5 grade education revolved solely around how to pass on the TASS (Texas for ya). And that is not an exagerration, everything was hwo to write a good essay the TASS will like, how to pick the best asnwer from a TAAS sheet. The teachers didn't care about teaching us anything, they only wanted to make sure that we apssed the TASS so that they wouldn't get in trouble... but yea...

Adoria · 02-25-2005, 03:31 PM

My mom has been a teacher for over 20 years. I've watched her teach her students multiple times, days at a time. The no child left behind policy is a ludicrous idea. I like Bush, but this idea is beyond attainability.

The problem with standardized tests is that teachers, instead of instructing their class the proper way, "teach to the test." Class time is spent learning what will be on state tests, and not about understanding what is actually going on. Math is the best example:

Q: What is the derivative of (3x) squared??
A: 6x
Q: How do you know that? What does that mean? What does the derivative represent?
A: I dunno. Don't care.

Feuermachtspass · 02-25-2005, 06:28 PM

at the same time though, how can students ever be nationally ranked without standardized tests? how do colleges say: this guy is good, this other guy is not so good? because an 'a' at one school could get you a 'c' in another. what many teachers fail to understand is that the best way to get the kids to pass the test is have them understand the concepts, not how to get the answer. if you have the concept, you can figure out how to get the answer.

Ink_Blot · 02-26-2005, 02:24 PM

A very good point. I, myself, is in, supposedly, one of the worst public school systems: South Carolina. I think I am in a very good school, but even then, you still see students who just do not want to learn. They begin to resent the teachers, school system, and even the information itself! This causes them to not care and to not try anymore.

And now, because of the "no child left behind" act, things are just that much worse. It creates these new even harder and more numerous standerdized tests. This makes the teachers have to "teach for the test" and stops students from understanding the material more than ever! What will probalby happen is that education will decline, because the "no child left behind" junk just makes it that much harder to learn what is really needed by students.

ShadowFox · 02-28-2005, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikkoru

Nothing, unless you particulairly desire a heavy class difference - and from a societal pragmatic standpoint - you do need people to be labourers which is most easily fulfilled by those who are undereducated.

Be hold the magic of capitalism! The demand for labourers would go up to the point where people could make good money being labourers. Some people would stop going to college, and eventually the demand for labourers would lessen and their wages would drop. We would just see major flucuations in the wages of labourers and non-labourers over time, but I don't really see how it would be a problem. Fortunately, this problem will realistically never arise in society.

02-25-2005, 12:12 AM	#12
Feuermachtspass Troopa Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South Texas Posts: 53	on the one hand, i firmly believe in working your way through college. i know its kinda generic, but it really does build character. on the other hand, could you honestly look a parent that is financially well off and tell them that they cant do all they can to help their child get the finest education available? i really dont know anything about the bush twins, but i am not much of one for conspiracy theories. and be careful of generalizations about the rich. just cuz someone is rich, that doesnt mean hes a snob. one of my friends' father is very well off, but you could never meet a friendlier HUMBLER person than my friend. __________________ There is nothing quite like the joy of flying on the wings of your dreams...except perhaps the joy of watching a dreamer who has no place to land except in the ocean of reality. :bmage:

02-25-2005, 12:53 PM	#15
Feuermachtspass Troopa Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South Texas Posts: 53	i think that if we had more trade schools, perhaps that would help. a general education is very nice to have. its nice to be able to participate relatively intelligently in forums like this without having to talk out of your butt. that being said, children can choose at around the high school level what they want to do and go to a school that will train them to do just that. then if they change their mind later, they can go back to a university. __________________ There is nothing quite like the joy of flying on the wings of your dreams...except perhaps the joy of watching a dreamer who has no place to land except in the ocean of reality. :bmage:

02-25-2005, 01:17 PM	#16
Napoleon98 He Who Is Called I Were Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 252	It's a fact, school is formatted to favor aural and reading/writing learners, and to a lesser extent visual learners. If you like to learn things "hands-on" then you are at a disadvantage, but its the way it's going to be, visual learners have a slight disadvantage as well, but not as bad as the kinesthetic's. The only way to effectively "leave no child behind" would to formatt school so that it was a better balance of learning hands-on and lectures... but like it was said earlier, some lessons can only be tought through lectures. Not to mention IMO we need to ditch standardized testing for the most part. My ENTIRE 1-5 grade education revolved solely around how to pass on the TASS (Texas for ya). And that is not an exagerration, everything was hwo to write a good essay the TASS will like, how to pick the best asnwer from a TAAS sheet. The teachers didn't care about teaching us anything, they only wanted to make sure that we apssed the TASS so that they wouldn't get in trouble... but yea... __________________ :bmage: That Was Amazing. :thief: Oh, We've Done Better... Plus, Red Mage? You CanNOT Tell Him This, But He's Not Actually A Cross Dresser And He Has No Daddy Issues, I've Just Been Messing With His Head. :bmage: Wow

02-25-2005, 06:28 PM	#18
Feuermachtspass Troopa Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South Texas Posts: 53	at the same time though, how can students ever be nationally ranked without standardized tests? how do colleges say: this guy is good, this other guy is not so good? because an 'a' at one school could get you a 'c' in another. what many teachers fail to understand is that the best way to get the kids to pass the test is have them understand the concepts, not how to get the answer. if you have the concept, you can figure out how to get the answer. __________________ There is nothing quite like the joy of flying on the wings of your dreams...except perhaps the joy of watching a dreamer who has no place to land except in the ocean of reality. :bmage:

02-26-2005, 02:24 PM	#19
Ink_Blot On an exodus. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Heh, that's a funny story... Posts: 167	A very good point. I, myself, is in, supposedly, one of the worst public school systems: South Carolina. I think I am in a very good school, but even then, you still see students who just do not want to learn. They begin to resent the teachers, school system, and even the information itself! This causes them to not care and to not try anymore. And now, because of the "no child left behind" act, things are just that much worse. It creates these new even harder and more numerous standerdized tests. This makes the teachers have to "teach for the test" and stops students from understanding the material more than ever! What will probalby happen is that education will decline, because the "no child left behind" junk just makes it that much harder to learn what is really needed by students. __________________ Astronomy Picture of the Day :rmage: Red mage fan, I am. "In a world gone mad, only a lunatic is trully insane" -Homer Simpson

02-23-2005, 09:45 PM	#11
Sato Now With Less Spam Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In a nutshell Posts: 168	The reason we have immigrants: Since America thinks we don't deserve those jobs, were higher than that. Work ethic has gone down. What makes us united is work ethic, and if we stratle to close to be individualistic, then society can't run, with personal needs ahead of common welfare. Everyone should pitch in in every job. Everyone deserves what they get, because you should work for your college. I respect my friend, his mom is single and has a low paying job, my friend worked hard to get into college, and is paying for it himself by working all summer in low paying jobs, rather than one of the Bush sisters getting into Yale because of their father, even them being not the greatest students or scholars? Yah, he is trully a good person to do it himself, putting others needs in front of himself. And that will repay him later in life, or after life. I respect a immigrant woker rather than some spoiled kid raised and pampered all his life to get a great education, and waste it. That's why I believe the future is the immigrants, to re-establish the work ethic in America, and bring some common sense back to the nation. Now, I still wonder why you would go to Yale to become a teacher, or am I thinking of the wrong sister? Corect me if I'm wrong....

02-25-2005, 12:47 AM	#13
Nikkoru always minty Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In a state of mind Posts: 100	For someone to use their family influence to get into a university which they don't have the grades to normally be allowed into seems to me to be morally questionable, as someone without influence wouldn't have the ability to do so. I guess the point I am trying to make is that it should be even for people of any class to get into anywhere if they have the ability. If Jenna and Barbra worked hard and got grades befitting the college/university they attend, I wouldn't care even if they got some help from their father - however if they got lousy grades and got into the same place where someone who doesn't have family influence would have to work extremely hard to get into - that is wrong.

02-25-2005, 02:44 AM	#14
Dante Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Crushing the weak beneath the iron jackboots of tyranny Posts: 7,703	I don't believe that no child should be left behind. But its easy to disagree with such a sweeping statement. I feel that the statement is impractical primarily because educating every child, to the maximum level possible, would have to involve lowering standards at the higher level of education, as mentioned before. Additionally, this assumes that all children want to learn, and that all knowledge (at least the syllabus covered in said education) is essential for all children. The fact is, you don't need a lot of education for most jobs. Nor do all children have the desire to conform to society's demands. So what can be done? I suppose the approach of giving everyone a minimal education and furthering the studies of those who wish to learn more is ideal, or at least close to it.