MGS4, no Kojima? - Page 2

bard master · 04-26-2005, 11:08 AM

mgs storylines rock. They have an edge, good characters, and they're always set in a specific time period. Kojima is probably one of the most important aspects.

The next one will probably have either solid snake, or a different character. Theres only room for 1 snake and 1 big boss.

I hope not to shake this place up, but i heard its not getting released in america.

Sky Warrior Bob · 04-26-2005, 11:31 AM

You either heard completely wrong or somebody is predicting that the US's economy is about to go belly up.

SWK

Mirai Gen · 04-26-2005, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky Warrior KC

I'm sorry, but my complaint was they rehashed a lot of things from Metal Gear 1 & Metal Gear 2 into Metal Gear Solid & Metal Gear Solid 2. And while in Metal Gear Solid 2 it was something of a plot item (which still continues to make *NO* sense) the prior games don't have that excuse.

Makes sense to me. The Patriots wanted their own Solid Snake. They had no idea how to get the current one into existence, so they had Ocelot go to Big Shell and take out the real Snake, and take Ray along with it. Then they could run what's both considered to be the S3 and not, since the AI of Arsenal Gear itself said "we're the S3, not you." They ran Raiden into VR training programs under Solidus, to try and clone exactly what Snake knew and all of his talent, as with other 'child geniuses' to find someone as skilled. Jack came out top in his 'class', and so they sent him on his first mission, which, using Dead cell to replicate FOXHOUND and so on and so forth to mimic the whole Shadow Moses incident.. The only thing they didn't count on is the real Snake showing up, with Otacon, trying to mess things up.

Sky Warrior Bob · 04-26-2005, 05:02 PM

That explaination makes sense only up to a certain point. Let me make one thing perfectly clear, Solid Snake was in no way *MADE* by the events of MGS (Shadow Moses), the skills he used existed prior. At best, you could claim it was a test that proved Snake had those skills. You could even go as far to claim that the Patriots used MGS as a test, because unlike the events of Metal Gear & Metal Gear 2, the Patriots had enough information to create a VR simulation based on the events (thanks to the Soliton radar & advanced recording of Mei Ling).

The problem I have with the explaination is that Raiden has full knowledge of the original Shadow Moses incident(as well as experiencing it in VR) going into Big Shell. Thus, patterning Big Shell almost exactly on the events of MGS seems rather pointless. The test is ruined, as Raiden is already conditioned for the events he's about to experience & thus some of the challenge is thereby removed.

Also I look back at how much influence Snake had in this mission & feel like the given explaination still isn't nearly satisfactory enough.

Also it doesn't help that I'd played MG & MG2 just prior to MGS2's release & it felt all the much more like a cop out. If it was *JUST* a copy of MGS, I could deal with it. The fact that it mimics three games, just is a bit much for me...

In a bit of an aside, while I was poking around the Metal Gear Source forums, I once caught somebody saying that Ocelot was the son of The Boss & The Sorrow, and the reason why Liquid can manipulate Ocelot is thanks to his latent psychic powers he inherited from his father. I'd certainly like this confirmed if anyone knows anything about this.

SWK

Magus · 04-26-2005, 06:59 PM

I doubt Kojima would say he wanted MGS to consist of only three games what with the completely confusing and disorienting ending of MGS2 that left a thousand unanswered questions and which made little to no sense. Probably what he meant was he wanted it to be called Metal Gear Something-Else. No big deal.

La-Le-Lu-Le-Lo rolls of the tongue, though, doesn't it? Once you get the order right. B^)

I will point out that in Metal Gear you used a remote control missile to hit the fuse box, in MGS there were the machine gun cameras that tried to shoot the rocket, that's a huge difference, c'mon. B^) I barely remember Metal Gear, though...I should get my copy out...

Personally I thought MGS3 was very unique from others in the series, it had enough new elements and situations. I found it too easy to kill all the guards, but other than that...

Mirai Gen · 05-01-2005, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky Warrior KC

That explaination makes sense only up to a certain point. Spoiler stuffs

Wait, he went through VR of Shadow Moses? Okay, now I see your skepticism. that wouldn't make sense if he re-did Shadow Moses in VR then went to do it in real life. Unless of course - even though they left it out - the fact that it is 'lethal' this time around could be pretty life changing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky Warrior KC

In a bit of an aside, while I was poking around the Metal Gear Source forums, I once caught somebody saying that Ocelot was the son of The Boss & The Sorrow, and the reason why Liquid can manipulate Ocelot is thanks to his latent psychic powers he inherited from his father. I'd certainly like this confirmed if anyone knows anything about this.

Since MGS3 it's generally assumed that it is. Think about it. Just like Olga Gurlukovich in MGS2, The Boss was pregnant right about the time of D-day, and she gave birth through C-section. Her child was taken from her by the Philosophers (The Patriots) and turned into one of their agents. Thinking of how old The Boss is, we can safely assume he's mid-twenties and under the Patriot's thumbnails. (End of MGS3: "Yes, they have no idea that I'm triple-crossing them and work for the FBI.") As if that wasn't enough, I heard that Kojima did an interview for EGM and said something to the effect of "Yes, The Boss's son will be a major character," And then was told to have done a whirling on his finger. Anyone who sees Ocelot's gun-kata knows what that means.

ApathyMan · 05-01-2005, 09:29 AM

Lets get a few things about MGS2 straight. Spoilers abound! - The purpose of the Big Shell incident was not to make another Solid Snake - "Campbell" specifically says that in his huge rant/speech in the end. S3 did not mean Solid Snake Simulation, it meant Selection for Societal Sanity. In short, the purpose of the mission was to test GW's limits as to its ability to control people to do whatever the Patriots wanted. The whole "Patriots wanting a new Solid Snake" is not what was really happening. Also, it's la-li-lu-le-lo. And I played this game quite a few times.

I still say the story was great!

Sky Warrior Bob · 05-01-2005, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApathyMan

I still say the story was great!

Eh, I still think the plot of MGS2 was far too over complicated, just to make an excuse to re-do MGS1. Which is made further irksome because MGS1 is actually Metal Gear 1 & Metal Gear 2 combined. I mean, even if you follow the this explaination, it doesn't make any sense.

I mean, the Patriots have *LESS* control over Snake after the events of Shadow Moses. Likewise, it isn't like Raiden's a die hard operative of theirs either.

I'm not saying that this makes the Metal Gear games bad in any way, but like I originally said, the Metal Gear games without Hideo might get away from this problematic over-use of plot ideas.

Of course, Hideo did seem to do that in MGS3. But after the backlash that followed MGS2, I could see Konami considering giving somebody else a shot at the Metal Gear series. That, and I've heard implications on the Ain't It Cool Website that Hideo interests have been straying towards a Metal Gear movie. (Plus I once read some of Hideo's comments on the original Metal Gear, and I get the feeling he's kinda always wanted to do one.)

SKW

Mirai Gen · 05-01-2005, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky Warrior KC

That, and I've heard implications on the Ain't It Cool Website that Hideo interests have been straying towards a Metal Gear movie. (Plus I once read some of Hideo's comments on the original Metal Gear, and I get the feeling he's kinda always wanted to do one.)

Better pray it's not Aint it Cool News making stuff up. I'm not sure I WANT to see that anyway, considering Metal Gear is a movie by itself, and unless they make it CG with David Hayter it just won't be the same.

Which, looking back, they could do easier than making another game OR making a live-action movie with real actors we all get to say "That wasn't a good Snake." They're already doing wire-frame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApathyMan

Lets get a few things about MGS2 straight. Spoilers abound! - The purpose of the Big Shell incident was not to make another Solid Snake - "Campbell" specifically says that in his huge rant/speech in the end. S3 did not mean Solid Snake Simulation, it meant Selection for Societal Sanity.

Yeah, but if it IS like that, that's an even worse way of doing it, since the first reason at least said "This is why MG1/2 and MGS2 are identical."

Besides, Ocelot said himself that the whole operation was an S3 (The first definition), and Ocelot's the Patriot's right hand. There may be a bit of truth in that, even though GW's Rose and Campbell both said "Nope." The Patriots do have alot of power, keep in mind.

Either that or we're all getting mixed signals.

Cloud Clone · 05-03-2005, 04:21 PM

Didn't Kojima say that he wasn't going to work on MGS2? Then that he wouldn't work on MGS3? Maybe he's just a liar.

04-26-2005, 11:08 AM	#11
bard master Lvl10 Mad Coffee Shaman Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 67	mgs storylines rock. They have an edge, good characters, and they're always set in a specific time period. Kojima is probably one of the most important aspects. The next one will probably have either solid snake, or a different character. Theres only room for 1 snake and 1 big boss. I hope not to shake this place up, but i heard its not getting released in america. __________________ Ive come out so many times, ive got a revolving door in my closet. And Dont you DARE say the F- word, or ill bury you here.

04-26-2005, 11:31 AM	#12
Sky Warrior Bob bOB iZ brOkeN Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a nice place to visit... Posts: 3,755	You either heard completely wrong or somebody is predicting that the US's economy is about to go belly up. SWK __________________ :bmage: Because breakdancing is evil, and so am I, you will click on this link: The power of evil compels you... You are in error. No one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation. Yes I know the breakdancing BM link doesn't work, and I don't care.

04-26-2005, 05:02 PM	#14
Sky Warrior Bob bOB iZ brOkeN Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a nice place to visit... Posts: 3,755	That explaination makes sense only up to a certain point. Let me make one thing perfectly clear, Solid Snake was in no way MADE by the events of MGS (Shadow Moses), the skills he used existed prior. At best, you could claim it was a test that proved Snake had those skills. You could even go as far to claim that the Patriots used MGS as a test, because unlike the events of Metal Gear & Metal Gear 2, the Patriots had enough information to create a VR simulation based on the events (thanks to the Soliton radar & advanced recording of Mei Ling). The problem I have with the explaination is that Raiden has full knowledge of the original Shadow Moses incident(as well as experiencing it in VR) going into Big Shell. Thus, patterning Big Shell almost exactly on the events of MGS seems rather pointless. The test is ruined, as Raiden is already conditioned for the events he's about to experience & thus some of the challenge is thereby removed. Also I look back at how much influence Snake had in this mission & feel like the given explaination still isn't nearly satisfactory enough. Also it doesn't help that I'd played MG & MG2 just prior to MGS2's release & it felt all the much more like a cop out. If it was JUST a copy of MGS, I could deal with it. The fact that it mimics three games, just is a bit much for me... In a bit of an aside, while I was poking around the Metal Gear Source forums, I once caught somebody saying that Ocelot was the son of The Boss & The Sorrow, and the reason why Liquid can manipulate Ocelot is thanks to his latent psychic powers he inherited from his father. I'd certainly like this confirmed if anyone knows anything about this. SWK __________________ :bmage: Because breakdancing is evil, and so am I, you will click on this link: The power of evil compels you... You are in error. No one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation. Yes I know the breakdancing BM link doesn't work, and I don't care. Last edited by Sky Warrior KC; 04-26-2005 at 05:06 PM.

05-01-2005, 09:29 AM	#17
ApathyMan WYLD STALLYNS! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The People's Republic of Massachusetts Posts: 439	Lets get a few things about MGS2 straight. Spoilers abound! - The purpose of the Big Shell incident was not to make another Solid Snake - "Campbell" specifically says that in his huge rant/speech in the end. S3 did not mean Solid Snake Simulation, it meant Selection for Societal Sanity. In short, the purpose of the mission was to test GW's limits as to its ability to control people to do whatever the Patriots wanted. The whole "Patriots wanting a new Solid Snake" is not what was really happening. Also, it's la-li-lu-le-lo. And I played this game quite a few times. I still say the story was great! __________________ Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem. By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty. Young God Radio Sprinkled with gumdrops since 1982 Last edited by ApathyMan; 05-01-2005 at 09:32 AM.

05-03-2005, 04:21 PM	#20
Cloud Clone I PWN Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Lost in your eyes Posts: 16	Didn't Kojima say that he wasn't going to work on MGS2? Then that he wouldn't work on MGS3? Maybe he's just a liar. __________________ You're lucky... I've decided to let you live to see the day when I will rule the world! -King of Spam Um...xanga? My real profile!

04-26-2005, 06:59 PM	#15
Magus Archer and Armstrong vs. the World Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 7,164	I doubt Kojima would say he wanted MGS to consist of only three games what with the completely confusing and disorienting ending of MGS2 that left a thousand unanswered questions and which made little to no sense. Probably what he meant was he wanted it to be called Metal Gear Something-Else. No big deal. La-Le-Lu-Le-Lo rolls of the tongue, though, doesn't it? Once you get the order right. B^) I will point out that in Metal Gear you used a remote control missile to hit the fuse box, in MGS there were the machine gun cameras that tried to shoot the rocket, that's a huge difference, c'mon. B^) I barely remember Metal Gear, though...I should get my copy out... Personally I thought MGS3 was very unique from others in the series, it had enough new elements and situations. I found it too easy to kill all the guards, but other than that...