Dragon Age, you disappoint me.

[bluestarultor]

I have no idea what game everyone else has been playing, but the one I'm seeing is shit.

The graphics are shit, the voice acting is shit, the AI is shit, the enemy spawning is shit, the music is shit, the story is shit, the animations are explosive, bloody diarrhea, the combat is, well, not shit, but certainly not anything great, and the only thing it seems to do right is make some decent environments, only, oh, wait, not even, because there are invisible walls around so much water as a measly puddle and you can't jump to take advantage of what would otherwise be good level design.

And this is what we're getting from the people who made Mass Effect? Mass Effect, from what little I've seen, is at least a helluva lot prettier and nicer-sounding, although I can't speak for the gameplay. It's like they crossed Mass Effect with Oblivion and forgot to include anything that had made either of them good.

What do people see in this thing?

[DFM]

The voice acting?

Seriously?

Dude maybe I'm just not remembering the game or I played too much Fallout 3 but Dragon Age's voice acting was pretty top notch all around.

Edit: Also I don't remember any enemy spawning except for maybe an odd quest here and there. They were always like, right there, in the same spot, all the time. So I'm not sure what you mean. I don't know what's wrong with the AI either unless you mean your companions then yeah you've got to micro-manage their tactics pretty heavily but you only need to do that like once in the game and then update them with their new spells/abilities. I don't remember any of the music but the Bard's song in that one cutscene was nice. The story is a lot better than most games, but that's not a real high margin or anything so I guess it could still count as shit. I think the kill animations got repetitive? That's kind of the only thing I remember about the animations besides them being jerky with transitions and my dragon-killing ones always looking terrible.

I don't remember any invisible walls and I don't really see why they'd have any they're not really afraid of just literally boxing you in with a bunch of rocks/trees. Also I can't think of the last straight up isometric RPG that let you jump.

Edit 3: Diablo II let the Barbarian leap, I think that might be it?

Edit 4: No that was an ARPG nevermind.

Mass Effect is pretty awesome but it's a completely different genre, they're not even similar unless you count gaining levels.

What do I see in Dragon Age I don't know it's a game and I played it and it seemed pretty neat. I like a lot of the dialog and most of the characters and the story's pretty good for a videogame. And I like that you can actually pick your ending instead of having your character be a loser and go off and do loser things that you would never do.

Edit 2: Nothing about Oblivion was good.

[Jagos]

The rant is great and all but there's no details to say why you don't like it blues. We know you can elaborate. What happened?

[CABAL49]

Let's face it. The only thing that made Oblivion great was jumping on water.

[Raiden]

I have no idea what game everyone else has been playing, but the one I'm seeing is shit.

The graphics are shit, the voice acting is shit, the AI is shit, the enemy spawning is shit, the music is shit, the story is shit, the animations are explosive, bloody diarrhea, the combat is, well, not shit, but certainly not anything great, and the only thing it seems to do right is make some decent environments, only, oh, wait, not even, because there are invisible walls around so much water as a measly puddle and you can't jump to take advantage of what would otherwise be good level design.

And this is what we're getting from the people who made Mass Effect? Mass Effect, from what little I've seen, is at least a helluva lot prettier and nicer-sounding, although I can't speak for the gameplay. It's like they crossed Mass Effect with Oblivion and forgot to include anything that had made either of them good.

What do people see in this thing?

...you're calling the Voice Acting and Music shit? The Voice Acting and Music were incredible! And I don't get why everyone's complaining about the graphics. Sure they're not the end-all be-all of graphics, but they had a lot to do and the graphics really never bothered me.

Not to mention, this "invisible wall" problem you ranted on about really wasn't a problem, unless you're basing your entire review on the Ostagar tutorial area where they cordoned you off because really you just had two objectives you had to get done. Otherwise it's not a problem.

Plus the story is fricking incredible. There are levels upon levels of cameos, stories, and changes based on the decisions you make. It's definitely a 9/10, if not a 10/10.

Unless you're basing all of this on Halo, then it's really not your genre.

[EVILNess]

The only things I disliked about Dragon Age is the in game advertisements for the DLC (HEY! We got a quest for you! *Enters the dungeon* $9.99 to continue please.), and the fact that Morrigan disapproves of everything.

[Jagos]

Jade Empire had one guy just like that. His schtick was to fight everything. I was glad he was on my side.

[bluestarultor]

Alright, let me clarify this.

Graphics - poor specular highlights, poly count is curiously low. It looks like an original XBox game. Also, really not digging how everyone gets covered in blood from so much as killing a fly. We'll be turning that off, I think.

Voice - it's not that they don't have a decent cast. I mean, they have Captain Janeway in there. It's just full of really fake-sounding accents and awkward delivery.

Enemy spawning - come on, really? They just pop out of the ground? That's some pretty heavy bull, because going through, you'll be standing on top of them before they come up and attack you. It was a cheap idea with the Zerg and it's a cheap idea here.

Music - okay, I'll break down and call it a mixed bag, but there are a lot of places that go for 5-second ambient noise loops, which I suppose is a matter of taste.

Story - I'm sorry, but I'm not one for a body count, and half the deaths are so pointless, it's disgusting. The story, or at least for the male human fighter, is basically one aggravating bitchslap after another as people get killed off for retarded reasons and you get betrayed. Granted, I'm not very far along, but it's not exactly winning any points. And I understand from my cousin that you're treated to being raped first thing in the game if you go for a female elf archer, which is oh-so-peachy on its own.

Animations - It's bad enough that the poly count is low, but everything is so jerky and unnatural that with the blood spattering everyone, the entire world, monsters and party alike, looks like it's populated by zombies with Tourette's. There is simply nothing smooth or natural about it. This is the kind of crap I was disappointed with on a last-generation console.

Combat - killing stuff is at least functional, but so far, it amounts to whacking things a few times to make them die, which, while realistic, makes it feel cheap somehow. You often get swarmed by enemies only to finish them off before your party even bothers to catch up.

And I'm sorry, but yes, there are invisible walls around bodies of water. There was also a nice fallen tree connecting one hill where I was to another hill with booty, but it was absolutely pointless because there was no way to jump on it and use it as a bridge, so I had to go all the way back down and around, and around the other hill, through a five-second battle, and then up the walkable slope on the side opposite the path. If you're going to put a tree bridge there, it's quite simply disappointing to be unable to use it, and it's not so much to ask to have a jump button. Oblivion had one, so it's not like everyone in fantasy wears lead boots.



Edit: And no, I'm not comparing this in any way to Halo, which I haven't played. I AM comparing this to Oblivion and Fallout 3, since those are my main entry points into this genre, unless you want to count Perfect World, in which case, that's still no support for not having a jump button.

[CABAL49]

Once you get past Ostogar, it gets SOOOO much better. Trust me. And yeah, I have played all the origins now. Human has it rough, but the common dwarf and elf get the shaft the most. I have to say the Dalish really get the best deal.

[MasterOfMagic]

I'm sorry, it appears we did play completely different games. The graphics weren't amazing, but they were still good. The voice acting was decent. I never once had an enemy spawn, they're always there, moving about. Music was fine, I guess, I never really pay attention to that part. The story was gritty and mostly a meh, but not out and out horrible. I liked alot of the animations... Combat was very difficult at times, I had a hard time getting through a lot of the fights. The invisible walls only annoyed me in the elf forest, I never noticed them at any other time.

If I had to complain, I'd say that the beginning mage story didn't really have the option I wanted. There was either help "the man" or help your bud, but no option to refuse to go along with either.

[greed]

The only times enemies spawn is when they're stealthed and become visible to ambush you, like Genlock Rogues and assassins. And sometimes the darkspawn do burst out of the ground zerg style. No one else does though, it's one of their tricks, as a way of making them more menacing and dangerous.

Also the female city elf(which is what I assume you mean by archer for some reason) doesn't get raped, the lord captures you and throws you in the cell so he can later, but you escape and kill everyone involved. Then taunt the gurds sent to capture you for wiping out an entire manor. Then you get to call the king a naive idiot who rules a pack of inbred rapists, which was hilarious. Her friend does suffer unfortunately, but you save her, avenge her and she recovers.

And if you don't like betrayal and darkness go Dalish elf or the Mage. Dalish only loses a friend due to his own stupidity and Mage doesn't lose anyone, your friend is an idiot but he lives and can reform if you help him, also it's you who betrays people in the mage origin, either your friend or the Circle. On the whole I thought the overall story was kinda boring, but loved the characters and choices presented. It beats every Western RPG released in a long time in this regard.

Also Blues, this is AN ISOMETRIC RPG, done in the style of Neverwinter, or Baldur's Gate, it's not an action RPG like Oblivion, so of course they're not gonna jump. If you're playing this on a console you're playing a port watered down to look more consoley it is despite it's Mass Effect like view point actually built to run as an old fashioned top down RPG. This is also why combat is of the hit stuff til they fall down variety, it's meant to be played as you directing a team using a mouse and a top down view, which would make jumping very cumbersome and weird. The console version is just a port with the control system overhauled and the camera moved elsewhere. Serioulsy complaining they can't jump here is like complaining you can't jump in FF12 or Mario Kart.


Also what difficulty are you playing it at, just curious?

[Marc v4.0]

It looks like an original XBox game.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/300/950918_20091028_screen008.jpg

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2002/xbox/morrowind/morrowind_0612_screen004.jpgOh, for the days when console games ran themselves to the point of being too overloaded to play for more then an hour...

Excuse me, but....LAWLWUT?

[phil_]

Serioulsy complaining they can't jump here is like complaining you can't jump in FF12 or Mario Kart.You can jump in Mario Kart and Mario Kart 64 by pressing the R button.

[greed]

Alright, true, Gran Turismo then.

[MasterOfMagic]

it's meant to be played as you directing a team using a mouse and a top down view, which would make jumping very cumbersome and weird. The console version is just a port with the control system overhauled and the camera moved elsewhere. Serioulsy complaining they can't jump here is like complaining you can't jump in FF12 or Mario Kart.

So, on the PC version you've got more Baldur's Gate-ish control over your team? With the controller it was rather clunky, but I wasn't sure if it was just me failing at it.

[DFM]

Alright, let me clarify this.

Graphics - It looks like an original XBox game.



I think you've probably never played a game on the original xbox because that statement is about ninety kinds of retarded. I mean it is retarded and not hyperbolic. That is the kind of thing retards say as they drool and smash their heads against walls.



Voice - it's not that they don't have a decent cast. I mean, they have Captain Janeway in there. It's just full of really fake-sounding accents and awkward delivery.



The Orlesian accents are pretty funny and I don't remember any awkward delivery but there's probably some in there because it is a Bioware game.



Enemy spawning - come on, really? They just pop out of the ground? That's some pretty heavy bull, because going through, you'll be standing on top of them before they come up and attack you. It was a cheap idea with the Zerg and it's a cheap idea here.



Are you talking about those worm things that live in the Deep Roads? Because other than them and I guess the spiders in the same area who can come from the ceiling I have no idea what you're talking about, I've never seen an enemy pop out of the ground.

Unless you count some of those scenes with the undead where the bodies rise up that's kind of like popping out of the ground.



Story - I'm sorry, but I'm not one for a body count, and half the deaths are so pointless, it's disgusting. The story, or at least for the male human fighter, is basically one aggravating bitchslap after another as people get killed off for retarded reasons and you get betrayed. Granted, I'm not very far along, but it's not exactly winning any points. And I understand from my cousin that you're treated to being raped first thing in the game if you go for a female elf archer, which is oh-so-peachy on its own.



Woah, woah, wait. Wait. You're saying it's a shitty story because people die? Oh my god you are! I take it you're doing the human noble origin where your entire family is murdered by the biggest douche in the game so he can become the second most powerful person in the kingdom. The body count on that one is huge because, you know, your entire royal family is butchered. I mean, that's the story. That's what happens. Yeah, it's the same device as your home village burning down but a lot more involved and personal. You didn't mention that, though, so have no idea what you're complaining about, I really don't. And with the city elf you're never raped. Your cousin is raped, it is implied, but that's the extent of the rape-spree. Also, even if you were raped, how the fuck is that automatically a shitty story? You got some 'splainin to do, Blues.



Animations - It's bad enough that the poly count is low, but everything is so jerky and unnatural that with the blood spattering everyone, the entire world, monsters and party alike, looks like it's populated by zombies with Tourette's. There is simply nothing smooth or natural about it. This is the kind of crap I was disappointed with on a last-generation console.



I wasn't impressed by the animation, so this isn't really a sticking point, but at least it's better than Oblivion or Fallout 3.




Combat - killing stuff is at least functional, but so far, it amounts to whacking things a few times to make them die, which, while realistic, makes it feel cheap somehow. You often get swarmed by enemies only to finish them off before your party even bothers to catch up.



A low level fighter has to whack things until they die. My god if only there were more involved classes or abilities you could unlock as you level up. Unless you mean it's not an action game like God of War or something in which case I guess, no, it isn't. You should probably play that I hear it's pretty good.



And I'm sorry, but yes, there are invisible walls around bodies of water. There was also a nice fallen tree connecting one hill where I was to another hill with booty, but it was absolutely pointless because there was no way to jump on it and use it as a bridge, so I had to go all the way back down and around, and around the other hill, through a five-second battle, and then up the walkable slope on the side opposite the path. If you're going to put a tree bridge there, it's quite simply disappointing to be unable to use it, and it's not so much to ask to have a jump button. Oblivion had one, so it's not like everyone in fantasy wears lead boots.



Woah. Woah you mean there's invisible walls around large bodies of water? That's what your talking about? My god Blues I don't even know anymore. I too remember fondly swimming down the Sword Coast in Baldur's Gate and taking a leisurely backstroke down the River of Souls in Neverwinter Nights. If you're complaining about the wilds level in Ostagar then I have no idea how to start addressing this. I suppose they could have put a mountain or something there instead of water but they figured, you know, water would probably look better. And you know it probably does. It probably fits the aesthetic feel of the level to have a marshy pond there than a pile of rocks. If they put a mountain in there instead would you complain you can't whip out your grappling hook and go over it?


Edit: And no, I'm not comparing this in any way to Halo, which I haven't played. I AM comparing this to Oblivion and Fallout 3, since those are my main entry points into this genre, unless you want to count Perfect World, in which case, that's still no support for not having a jump button.

Oh, I see. You need to stop comparing this game to Oblivion it's nothing like oblivion it has as much in common with Oblivion as it does with Mass Effect, which is almost nothing. Oblivion was first person hack and slash, Dragon Age is an isometric RPG. Oblivion was utterly terrible, Dragon Age is pretty good. Etc.

If you're playing it on a console and haven't played another RPG ever, which is what it sounds like, I'm going to say they probably aren't your thing and you should go back to whatever else it is you like to play. Oblivion, I guess.

Edit: Beaten by Greed but WHATEVAH

[Corel]

Jade Empire had one guy just like that. His schtick was to fight everything. I was glad he was on my side.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Edit: He also had the best anecdotes ever.

[Kim]

I think you've probably never played a game on the original xbox because that statement is about ninety kinds of retarded. I mean it is retarded and not hyperbolic. That is the kind of thing retards say as they drool and smash their heads against walls.


Don't blame him. He's just upset 38 gigs of a 50 gig disc weren't spent rendering really, really pretty cutscenes.

[Truce]

To be honest, Dragon Age reminded me more of Knights of the Old Republic more than Mass Effect or Oblivion from the controls.

Hell, I even imagine Arcane Warriors as Jedi - complete with your own force lightning spells.

[Marc v4.0]

Ok, Oblivion being utterly terrible is news to me.

I mean, It wasn't the best thing since sliced bread, but it wasn't Two Worlds either.

edit:

Edit:He also had the best anecdotes ever.

The Black Whirlwind: KANG! Makes me some wine bowls I can hold with stumps!
Kang: Yours, or someone elses?

[DFM]

Ok, Oblivion being utterly terrible is news to me.


http://www.searchviews.com/wp-content/themes/clean-copy-full-3-column-1/images/the_more_you_know2.jpg

[Marc v4.0]

Well, that was more of the "Bullshit it is" line then anything. Because it wasn't "utterly Terrible" or the worst thing since explosive nipple AIDS or whatever. It's a really silly statement in a thread of really silly complaints.

[DFM]

Holy shit I looked it up and you're right!

Egg on my face!

[BitVyper]

This thread needs to be more about Black Whirlwind and less about whatever the fuck you guys are discussing.

[Marc v4.0]

Holy shit I looked it up and you're right!

Egg on my face!

...looked what up?

[DFM]

You're cute, you stay that way.

[Mirai Gen]

I have no idea what game everyone else has been playing, but the one I'm seeing is shit.

The graphics are shit, the voice acting is shit, the AI is shit, the enemy spawning is shit, the music is shit, the story is shit, the animations are explosive, bloody diarrhea, the combat is, well, not shit, but certainly not anything great, and the only thing it seems to do right...

http://pics.livejournal.com/miraigen/pic/000r1hhk

[Krylo]

Graphics - poor specular highlights, poly count is curiously low. It looks like an original XBox game. Also, really not digging how everyone gets covered in blood from so much as killing a fly. We'll be turning that off, I think.I was gonna post an x-box screen next to a DA screen, but someone already did.

That makes me kinda sad.

The only thing I can begin to imagine here is that you have like the shittiest computer ever and are trying to run DA on it? 'cause DA has pretty low minimum reqs and would probably run on a terrible computer, and might even look really really ugly, but seriously: http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=1001887&postcount=12

Nooooooooooo.


Voice - it's not that they don't have a decent cast. I mean, they have Captain Janeway in there. It's just full of really fake-sounding accents and awkward delivery.There's a few times like this, I guess. Like if you decide to joke with Alistair when he's all "There's not supposed to be darkspawn here!" his voice makes a weird change of tone to all light and jovial from mostly serious a second ago when he responds along the lines of, "Oh yes, this is all just a big mistake, we'll laugh about it later, I'm sure."

But really, that's the only awkward delivery I can think of in the entirety of the game off the top of my head, and I've beaten it three times now. I guess a few bit players might have had less than stellar VAs, but that's what less than stellar VAs are for--bit players.

Enemy spawning - come on, really? They just pop out of the ground? That's some pretty heavy bull, because going through, you'll be standing on top of them before they come up and attack you. It was a cheap idea with the Zerg and it's a cheap idea here.It's explained quite a few times that the darkspawn live under ground, and you even hear stories about this happening to other soldiers before this happens to you so that you are prepared for it. It also only really happens with genlock rogues, and they're basically just in stealth waiting to backstab you.

It's also a ridiculously rare occurrence, and I don't think it even happens at all after the marsh.

Animations - It's bad enough that the poly count is low, but everything is so jerky and unnatural that with the blood spattering everyone, the entire world, monsters and party alike, looks like it's populated by zombies with Tourette's. There is simply nothing smooth or natural about it. This is the kind of crap I was disappointed with on a last-generation console.Here we're back to shitty computer or something.

All the animations I remember were pretty fluid, though some of the crit-kills looked a little silly when I was using blunt or axe weapons, as all the kill animations were more or less the same no matter what you were wielding for the most part. But oh well. They were pretty fluid in their silliness.

I find this particularly suspect knowing you are comparing it to oblivion and FO3. Might I suggest you zoom out a little one either of those games and then run up and down some stairs a few times? If you can still compare their animations favorably to DA, then... well, I don't even know.

Combat - killing stuff is at least functional, but so far, it amounts to whacking things a few times to make them die, which, while realistic, makes it feel cheap somehow. You often get swarmed by enemies only to finish them off before your party even bothers to catch up.killing stuff is at least functional, but so far, it amounts to whacking things a few times to make them die, which, while realistic, makes it feel cheap somehow. whacking things a few times to make them die, which, while realistic, makes it feel cheap somehow.
...

Are you on super easy mode?

Are you past the ostagar tutorial?

Seriously, this game has some of the most mind-fuckingly difficult combat ever in the history of ever.

Just, what the hell, man?

I guess the first few quests with your warrior amount to that, because you are a warrior and therefore have few skills past whacking things and your party is pretty small AND all the combat is pretty easy so you don't need to learn how to play yet at that point.

But seriously, I defy you to go the deep roads and just 'whack things until they die'. You... you have fun with that.

And I'm sorry, but yes, there are invisible walls around bodies of water. There was also a nice fallen tree connecting one hill where I was to another hill with booty, but it was absolutely pointless because there was no way to jump on it and use it as a bridge, so I had to go all the way back down and around, and around the other hill, through a five-second battle, and then up the walkable slope on the side opposite the path. If you're going to put a tree bridge there, it's quite simply disappointing to be unable to use it, and it's not so much to ask to have a jump button. Oblivion had one, so it's not like everyone in fantasy wears lead boots.

Go play FO1, FO2, NWN, BG, and KotoR. Right now.

Immediately.

You have no idea what genre you are playing, and you need to get acquainted with it.

[Melfice]

Seriously, this game has some of the most mind-fuckingly difficult combat ever in the history of ever.

I'm playing on normal, and I've wiped several times on a simple pack of wolves during travel on the map, simply because they overwhelm you.
Yes, the difficulty can be daunting, and I've no doubt things'll get harder. But it's a good kind of hard.

[Mirai Gen]

Blues I'm trying hard not to be utterly disrespectful here but everything you're saying sounds like 100% pure bona-fide trolling. Either that or you're trying super super hard to get your hate-on for a game you've gotten frustrated by due to slightly dated visuals and lack of understanding of the combat.

[Toast]

I'm very much enjoying the game so far. Sure, I have some complaints about item splitting and stacking and not being able to hide the ugly helmets, but overall the game is good.

The interparty banter is sometimes absolutely hilarious.

Animations - It's bad enough that the poly count is low, but everything is so jerky and unnatural that with the blood spattering everyone, the entire world, monsters and party alike, looks like it's populated by zombies with Tourette's. There is simply nothing smooth or natural about it. This is the kind of crap I was disappointed with on a last-generation console.
I can kinda understand this complaint, although my experience so far is not that the animations aren't smooth, just that my pc can't run them smoothly, even with better than minimum requirement specs. My pc has the same problem with NWN1/2, but not kotor1/2. Go figure.

[greed]

The interparty banter is sometimes absolutely hilarious.

Love Morrigan and Sten's. "I may nuzzle, if this happens you will need an iron bar to pry me loose. Heated in an open flame or I will probably just ignore it.

[Moogle0119]

I thought the voice acting was pretty good actually for this game as well. Oghren's talks at the camp alone are some of the best and funniest lines I've ever heard in a video game. What with his yelling at the dog for stealing his pants and then your character pointing out that he is still wearing them, Oghren just laughs while still drunk and says "Yeah but the dog doesn't know that!". Or the comments he made about Branka and that other dwarven chick being alone in the Deep Roads for months together.

And yeah the graphics aren't exactly Halo, Gears of War, or Batman: Arkham Asylum but they aren't original Xbox quality either. Considering the many different types of environments that are in the game I thought the graphics were pretty good honestly.

[Sithdarth]

You people are all really weird, or maybe its me. Playing RPGs for graphics, story, and/or voice acting instead of breaking the hell out of the leveling system and amassing as much power as possible and depending on the genre exploring and never actually touching the main quest line. Like in Fallout 3 I'm on my third character and on track to having all stats at 10 and all skills at 100. I've got an Oblivion character I should get back to that I specifically designed to be able to reach the maximum level possible by making his worst skills possible his main skills. Probably the most fun I've had with an RPG was Aidyn Chronicles: The First Mage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aidyn_Chronicles:_The_First_Mage) whose graphics sucked, was about half finished, and full of bugs. (Like falling through the map.) Of course that gave it a very unique charm and the leveling/magic/combat system was interesting and complex enough to be really fun.

As soon as I have some money I'm so picking up Dragon Age because of this thread primarily because it sounds like the kind of soul crushing leveling challenge that I love. I look forward to breaking this game's system more than anything else about it. Well actually that's true about any RPG I play anyway. Its more about the strategy and leveling than anything else.

[Sir Pinkleton]

This reminds me a little of when I bitched about Heavenly Sword and people, including Krylo, bitched me out for it because I had only played it for 30 minutes as a preview.

I think you just need to play it a bit longer, blues.

[Azisien]

I have no idea what game everyone else has been playing, but the one I'm seeing is shit.

The graphics are shit, the voice acting is shit, the AI is shit, the enemy spawning is shit, the music is shit, the story is shit, the animations are explosive, bloody diarrhea, the combat is, well, not shit, but certainly not anything great, and the only thing it seems to do right is make some decent environments, only, oh, wait, not even, because there are invisible walls around so much water as a measly puddle and you can't jump to take advantage of what would otherwise be good level design.

And this is what we're getting from the people who made Mass Effect? Mass Effect, from what little I've seen, is at least a helluva lot prettier and nicer-sounding, although I can't speak for the gameplay. It's like they crossed Mass Effect with Oblivion and forgot to include anything that had made either of them good.

What do people see in this thing?

Fuck you.

Also the final boss was kind of buggy that was a shame.

[Seil]

A Dragon Age Review (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1096-Dragon-Age-Origins) from a reviewer that doesn't seem to get a lot of flak.

I usually trust reviews from ZP - not to say I don't trust Bluey, but ZP has a history, has a top three roughly the same as me, and he's normally right when he nitpicks about games I like. Bluey doesn't have a ton of cred with me when coming to the review table.

[Krylo]

Normally I'd say that using Yahtzee as anything more than comedy is a terrible idea, but I would point out here that a guy whose entire job is to entertain by tearing popular games apart doesn't actually say a single thing about the game itself other than that he's been playing for 25 hours and wants to play more. The entire review is a nitpick of the fantasy genre itself, as opposed to Dragon Age.

[Osterbaum]

Still, he is very entertaining.

[BitVyper]

Yeah, Yahtzee's fun and all, but his strong biases can get a bit irritating when you don't agree with him.

What's funny is how much open bias he manages to get away with.

[Azisien]

I have some definite nitpicks about the game but that'll show up on Gamepad Dojo at some point.

The things Blues qualified it as "shit" for sound more like "your console is a piece of shit" which I'd also give honourable mention. It's not pushing the envelope but it looks and plays great on my PC for sure.

[Seil]

Usually my biases are the same as his, though. Which is to say, we share the same taste in games and have the same things to nitpick.

[bluestarultor]

You know, I'm going to retract basically everything at this point now that I'm farther. The difficulty ramped up nicely, for one, and things have gotten MUCH better story-wise.

Also, Sten apparently carries cookies, which made me laugh out loud. And now that everyone isn't dropping like flies, I'm actually starting to like the party members as they develop.

Also, ignoring the bit parts has helped my view of the voice acting. You still get some bad bit parts, but talking with your party is quite nice, all told. Not perfect, but pretty good.

I have to agree with Yahtzee. I'm not quite sure yet if it's actually "good," but I'm getting good reasons to stick around now.



P.S. I'm playing this on the PS3, so no, I had no idea it was actually isometric.

[Raiden]

Man, there's just something about Ostagar I guess. So many people say it's a horrible game when they've just played Ostagar, but when they get past that they fall in love with the game. Something about Ostagar just fills people with hate.

And yeah, Yahtzee's biased. Because as he said, people hate it when he talks about how he liked a game. (He stopped doing good reviews after the Psychonauts one).

[Jagos]

What about Portal?

There's a game that lives in infamy.

[Azisien]

Something about Ostagar just fills people with hate.

Which I am finding so weird because I loved Ostagar. If anything a few of the Origins are a bit weak and that, temporarily, soiled the game for a few of my friends. Even I did some good old-fashioned screen-yellin'.

[DFM]

What's funny is how much open bias he manages to get away with.

Yeah he's soiled the credibility of game journalists everywhere.

[BitVyper]

Yeah he's soiled the credibility of game journalists everywhere.

Fair enough. I didn't really mean it like that though. I meant to say that it's actually funny just how obvious he is about it. Laughing with him, not at him... at least when he's leaving things I like alone.

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that he's the only angry reviewer besides Seanbaby who is consistently entertaining.

[Magus]

Probably the most fun I've had with an RPG was Aidyn Chronicles: The First Mage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aidyn_Chronicles:_The_First_Mage) whose graphics sucked, was about half finished, and full of bugs. (Like falling through the map.) Of course that gave it a very unique charm and the leveling/magic/combat system was interesting and complex enough to be really fun.

Yeah, man, people who've actually beaten Aidyn Chronicles: The First Mage, REPRESENT! We need awards and stuff, I demand them.

What's amazing about that game was I beat it and then started a new game, and it apparently took me so long to get through the game once that when I got around to the beginning again, I was like "What the--why would I ever play this, this is agonizing!" But I had changed my party so that might have been why.

But as probably the only other RPG besides Ogre Battle 64 and Hybrid Haven (Hybrid Heaven? I dunno, it was an RPG one of my friends had), it wasn't surprising I stuck with it.

[ZAKtheGeek]

People really put much stock in what Yahtzee has to say? By now you'd think people would have learned.

[Kim]

People really put much stock in what Yahtzee has to say? By now you'd think people would have learned.

The thing about reviews is you should be looking for reviewers who share your taste. Yahtzee is good if you have similar taste to him about whatever kind of game he's talking about, and keep in mind that he exaggerates the negative qualities of a game. If Yahtzee was talking about a shooter or some such, I'd probably listen to what he has to say. If he's talking about an RPG or a difficult game of any kind? He's completely worthless to me.

[bluestarultor]

The thing about reviews is you should be looking for reviewers who share your taste. Yahtzee is good if you have similar taste to him about whatever kind of game he's talking about, and keep in mind that he exaggerates the negative qualities of a game. If Yahtzee was talking about a shooter or some such, I'd probably listen to what he has to say. If he's talking about an RPG or a difficult game of any kind? He's completely worthless to me.

Hey, even he liked TWEWY. :p


I agree with this to an extent, but you should also look for alternative opinions. If someone likes the genre or specifically the game, they might gloss over a few issues that might turn out to be deal-breakers for you.

Obviously, you shouldn't get someone so against it that they'll crucify it for no reason, but you should at least get someone enough against it to honestly tell you its flaws.

[BitVyper]

The thing about reviews is you should be looking for reviewers who share your taste. Yahtzee is good if you have similar taste to him about whatever kind of game he's talking about, and keep in mind that he exaggerates the negative qualities of a game. If Yahtzee was talking about a shooter or some such, I'd probably listen to what he has to say. If he's talking about an RPG or a difficult game of any kind? He's completely worthless to me.

This, more or less.

[ZAKtheGeek]

The thing about reviews is you should be looking for reviewers who share your taste. Yahtzee is good if you have similar taste to him about whatever kind of game he's talking about, and keep in mind that he exaggerates the negative qualities of a game. If Yahtzee was talking about a shooter or some such, I'd probably listen to what he has to say. If he's talking about an RPG or a difficult game of any kind? He's completely worthless to me.
Well, if it's part of your taste to focus on whichever parts and aspects of a game are funniest to shit on, then I guess it works out great for you.

[Sithdarth]

Yeah, man, people who've actually beaten Aidyn Chronicles: The First Mage, REPRESENT! We need awards and stuff, I demand them.


I still have the cart, a working N64, and all the appropriate cords. I might have to go looking and put it all together for nostalgia purposes. I'd look on the virtual console for the Wii but somehow I don't think it would make it on there.

[Kim]

Well, if it's part of your taste to focus on whichever parts and aspects of a game are funniest to shit on, then I guess it works out great for you.

Well, yeah. Even if he's doing a review I won't agree with I want him to be funny about it.

[Mirai Gen]

Not to derail the thread, but he is getting paid to be funny. If I were in his shoes I'd do the exact same thing.

[ZAKtheGeek]

Well, yeah. Even if he's doing a review I won't agree with I want him to be funny about it.
No, I mean while you're playing you somehow manage to only think about whichever parts of the experience make for the funniest negative review. That's how your brain would have to work for his reviews to be particularly relevant.

Not to derail the thread, but he is getting paid to be funny. If I were in his shoes I'd do the exact same thing.
Agreed completely. I'm not saying he's doing anything wrong or decrying his "bias" or anything like that; I'm saying the purpose of ZP is to entertain and not to inform.

[Kim]

No, I mean while you're playing you somehow manage to only think about whichever parts of the experience make for the funniest negative review. That's how your brain would have to work for his reviews to be particularly relevant.

Sorry, but this is incorrect. He has made several valid points about games, even ones I've liked, and there are times that he's actually been too nice to games. There are certain complaints he will make or genres he'll review where I can safely ignore most or everything he has to say, but that doesn't mean that his entire review/opinion/video is wrong or invalid.

[Mirai Gen]

No, I mean while you're playing you somehow manage to only think about whichever parts of the experience make for the funniest negative review. That's how your brain would have to work for his reviews to be particularly relevant.
It's worth noting that since I started doing weekly reviews myself I've become more and more easily frustrated by things that otherwise merely annoy me in gaming. It's the same as watching lots of movies - if you sat in the theater once for each movie that comes out each week after about two months you would have very little time for any of the ones that bore you even the slightest.

[ZAKtheGeek]

Sorry, but this is incorrect. He has made several valid points about games, even ones I've liked, and there are times that he's actually been too nice to games. There are certain complaints he will make or genres he'll review where I can safely ignore most or everything he has to say, but that doesn't mean that his entire review/opinion/video is wrong or invalid.
I'm not saying that every single thing he ever says in ZP is a giant exaggeration if not outright lie or mistake and you'd have to be some kind of idiot to take it as anything but a fragment of the thoughts of some denizen of Bizarro world. I'm just saying that what you're hearing and seeing is through a certain filter which is not necessarily conducive to particularly complete or accurate information, so at least I personally find it hard to trust, because I always think, "was this really a problem or is he just trying to be funny?" Sometimes the filter can coincide pretty well with a more informative stance or sometimes he just feels like making a point. That stuff does happen.

And then, of course, since he is also fully aware that he's not really a "serious reviewer," he is very free to judge things fairly opaquely on his own personal tastes and distastes. Now I am sort of decrying his biases, though it seems like maybe you've accounted for this already.

It's worth noting that since I started doing weekly reviews myself I've become more and more easily frustrated by things that otherwise merely annoy me in gaming. It's the same as watching lots of movies - if you sat in the theater once for each movie that comes out each week after about two months you would have very little time for any of the ones that bore you even the slightest.
Well, that makes sense, I guess. At the same time, in something like his third review he says that he learned that no one likes him when he's being nice from the Psychonauts review, and then announces his intention to be as negative and nitpicky as possible. That was a while ago, of course, but still. His words, not mine.


What was my point, again? Something about Dragon Age, presumably...

[Mirai Gen]

Speaking of Dragon Age, my roommate has a copy of DA that's for the 360 and I've been inclined to play it but on the other hand this is a Baldur's Gate style game and I really want to play it on the PC. I heard the tactical view is just a godsend.

[Krylo]

I pretty much never used the tactical view, myself. There were a few times when it was extremely useful, but I really think the controls are what would make a console version inferior, as opposed to any views, persay.

I, literally, can not imagine trying to play this game without a mouse and keyboard combination. It would infuriate me to no end to try aiming AoE spells without a mouse, or to quickly select enemies without one. The joysticks just aren't that great for quickly moving a pointer about--which you'd basically need for AoE spells--and the thought of cycling through enemies every time I wanted to target one, the only alternative to a pointer, makes me sick just thinking about it.

Now I haven't actually played it on Console, so MAYBE they pulled off the controls. I would, however, be very leery of that.

Plus they're releasing a build kit for it for PC. So there's that.

Also--on Yahtzee, he's a comedy reviewer, no argument with Zak there. He SHOULDN'T be one of the better reviewers you can go to for an honest look at games. He really shouldn't.

However, I've begun to realize that Yahtzee is the reviewer equivalent of the daily show and every other reviewer in the world is the equivalent of Fox news.

Most reviewers rate games up/down based entirely upon difficulty or their own biases with absolutely no care for making actual points. Or they choose a single completely retarded and boring way to play the game, and then rate it down for being boring after they MADE it that way.

Let's take DA:O. It generally received favorable reviews, BUT you'll find a lot of negative reviews that are out there either cite it being too hard--which apparently means that no one could ever want to play it ever--or have ridiculous arguments like "Battle is boring. You stealth, walk to the enemies, set a bunch of traps, come back, and walk into the enemies. Over and over again."

Yeah, I beat the game three times and never laid a single trap. That's far from a mandatory play style, and yes, of course that's going to be a boring as piss way to play. Congratulations, you managed to find a way to make the combat terrible. Good job I guess? Then they go on to complain about going into screens for it and blah blah blah.

On the other hand, you'll find positive reviews will review it positively entirely because it's an isometric RPG with difficult combat.

Honestly, Yahtzee nitpicking the way DA:O sticks so hard to fantasy tropes is about the only review I've ever seen with anything CLOSE to a valid point.

It's pretty pathetic, and why I tend to just trust my gut on game purchases (it has very rarely let me down), or wait for a post release thread on these forums and watch a discussion on the game if I'm unsure.

Modern reviewers are worthless.

Also: Bonus points for Yahtzee, no one bothers paying him for a score. With him you take the negatives with a grain of salt. With everyone else you take any positives from a big release with a huge grain of salt. Video game companies paying reviewers to give favorable reviews is not at all unheard of. In fact it's pretty common knowledge that it's the basic modus operandi of many reviewers/publishers.

[Mirai Gen]

Now I haven't actually played it on Console, so MAYBE they pulled off the controls. I would, however, be very leery of that.
They basically made it KOTOR. So, not really then.

[Kim]

Also: Bonus points for Yahtzee, no one bothers paying him for a score. With him you take the negatives with a grain of salt. With everyone else you take any positives from a big release with a huge grain of salt. Video game companies paying reviewers to give favorable reviews is not at all unheard of. In fact it's pretty common knowledge that it's the basic modus operandi of many reviewers/publishers.

It's a negligible difference, but basically what I gather is that they actually just threaten to pull the advertising, which is where a lot of the revenue comes from.

It would be bitchin' to get paid to do reviews though, even if you did lose some moneys for writing a mean review.

[Mirai Gen]

Something happened with Penny Arcade, actually. They gushed about how great Sands of Time was, so Ubisoft extended to some advertising, and when they mocked Warrior Within while advertising for it Ubisoft got angry and reneged on their contract. You'll notice they did a serious story-driven comic strip about Two Thrones and were noticeably absent on actually mentioning anything about the game, which is very similar to what they did to Prince of Persia 08 (mock some storytelling but conspicuously avoid talking about the game itself).

[Kim]

So, I have to ask, is there some clause in these contracts that prevents the people from saying "Such and such company didn't like our review so they pulled advertising to try and make us change it. Fuck them."?

I can't help but feel that if the video game review sites as a whole grew some balls and put up a strong front of "Fine, pull your advertising. It certainly doesn't deserve any." the company might rethink their strong-arming strategy.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Something happened with Penny Arcade, actually. They gushed about how great Sands of Time was, so Ubisoft extended to some advertising, and when they mocked Warrior Within while advertising for it Ubisoft got angry and reneged on their contract. You'll notice they did a serious story-driven comic strip about Two Thrones and were noticeably absent on actually mentioning anything about the game, which is very similar to what they did to Prince of Persia 08 (mock some storytelling but conspicuously avoid talking about the game itself).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Ubisoft do that with EGM? They were tired of the low scoring so they pulled out of EGM (and Ziff Davis Media to an extent) and sent no advance copies of the game for the staff to review?

[Mirai Gen]

Probably - as Krylo said it's pretty standard nowadays to threaten to pull your money if you don't like the way things run.

It makes sense. There's no point in spending money to advertise a game on a site/magazine that tells you not to buy the game.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Or they could you know, apply enough pressure to get the reviewer fired.

[Mirai Gen]

Um, what?

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Um, what?

Can't recall off hand, but I was referencing how Gestermann from Giant Bomb was fired from some site because he gave Kane and Lynch a low score and at the time, eidos was on an Advertising spree at said site.

At least that's what it looked like, but no official story has been released.

[Mirai Gen]

Oh that. It looked more like you were suggesting that as a solution to low scores from a game review.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Oh that. It looked more like you were suggesting that as a solution to low scores from a game review.

A solution to low scores on games is to have good games deserving of good scores.

But I digress, I want to get DO:A for my Ps3.

[Jagos]

So, I have to ask, is there some clause in these contracts that prevents the people from saying "Such and such company didn't like our review so they pulled advertising to try and make us change it. Fuck them."?

I can't help but feel that if the video game review sites as a whole grew some balls and put up a strong front of "Fine, pull your advertising. It certainly doesn't deserve any." the company might rethink their strong-arming strategy.

EGM didn't fare too well after so long. With everything being owned by Ziff Davis, you probably won't hear this strategy pulled too often.

-Edit- Those damn ninjas are EVIL before the New Year...

[stefan]

I've found Dragon Age to be fairly entertaining so far. I think the thing I like most is that by not forcing the writers to write dialog to fit an unrealistic good-evil meter, the quality of possible responses has skyrocketed.

[Marc v4.0]

Been playing it myself for the past couple of hours.

Blue, you're just playing a different fucking game. Seriously.

[Mike McC]

Let's take DA:O. It generally received favorable reviews, BUT you'll find a lot of negative reviews that are out there either cite it being too hard--which apparently means that no one could ever want to play it ever--or have ridiculous arguments like "Battle is boring. You stealth, walk to the enemies, set a bunch of traps, come back, and walk into the enemies. Over and over again."

Yeah, I beat the game three times and never laid a single trap. That's far from a mandatory play style, and yes, of course that's going to be a boring as piss way to play. Congratulations, you managed to find a way to make the combat terrible. Good job I guess? Then they go on to complain about going into screens for it and blah blah blah.I remember a particular review, I believe it was on IGN, but maybe it was 1up, about Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles. Others may remember it because it at least showed up on PA's newspost page (unsure of the comic itself). Pretty much the guy reamed it as a terrible game simply because he played it with a bunch of assholes that didn't seem to comprehend the notion of cooperative play.He took those assholes as definitive example of most people playing and decided the game was terrible because his officemates were terrible people (I think they were just officemates, and not even his friends, kind of defeating a point of the game as well).

I like Yahtzee because he is funny. But yeah, even though he exaggerates a lot, he's still pretty honest about the games he reviews, and does bring up valid points. He also gives a number of positive reviews as well, though no one seems to remember this. They like to keep him up there as the example of TROLL CRITIC.

Regardless, everyone knows his best review is the webcomics one.

[Melfice]

Hijacking, though it's more or less on-topic.

After some questing, I finally kill a dragon. Specifically, the one outside the temple where you go to collect Andraste's ashes.
As such, I figure: "Well... I killed a dragon. How much harder can Morrigan's little errand be, huh?" Sure, Flemeth cons orange to me, and I know she's technically an abomination. Or at least a possessed maleficar, but she's still a woman, right?

NOBODY TOLD ME SHE TURNS INTO A FUCKING DRAGON WHO'S AT LEAST FOUR TIMES STRONGER THAN THE OTHER DRAGON!

Some times... I hate this game.

[Krylo]

She's not THAT much harder. I think it's mostly that she's much more resistant to being frozen. You're actually better off using fire spells as igniting her gives you a good edge in DPSing her down.

[Nikose Tyris]

Re: Controls.

I'm using the PS3 and I couldn't beleive how RIGHT they got this, for me. I've played on both and it's surprisingly fluid. It becomes a touch less tactical in mob situations where you're being rushed by a fairly large group, but from the viewpoint of a mage, it's working out beautifully [The joystick is just sensitive enough to be extremely accurate, but without being annoyingly jumpy.

Oh also So far I think 90% of my mage's solutions have been Coercion. Especially on my third reload into a fight. "Hm, this particular demon/dragon/mage/jerk has killed me twice. I'mma try persuading him to fuck off." "Okay now let's try intimidate."

I have 0 failures on my coercion at this point, which halfway concerns me. My Cunning is only 22, and I have the fouth tier of the Coercion skill, as well. Should it be ths easy? [strength 19, for intimidate]

[bluestarultor]

Been playing it myself for the past couple of hours.

Blue, you're just playing a different fucking game. Seriously.

If you'd read further into the thread, you'd see I got past what is apparently a widely-hated beginning. I'm now lamenting the fact that there is no way to get a werewolf on your team.


Edit: Also, Shale is ten kinds of awesome.

[Azisien]

Flemeth was pretty damn hard for me, but she should be! She's the Witch of the Wilds! A legend of the setting they got going on!

[Melfice]

She's not THAT much harder. I think it's mostly that she's much more resistant to being frozen. You're actually better off using fire spells as igniting her gives you a good edge in DPSing her down.

I suppose so.
Problem. I'm a Human Warrior/Champion. Half melee, half tank. I'm sure my highest damage dealer is Morrigan (though in the statistics I get most party-damage on account of sheer volume of kills). Wynne is a pure healer.

Guess who you can't bring. Leaving me Shale to tank, which it is quite good at, while Sten chops it up with the dragon-killing zweihänder. I forgot it's name. I think it's from Warden's Keep DLC.
I'm doing what I do usually. Damage and half-hearted tanking.

Ah, I guess I'll just have to try, try, try again. Like with the first dragon.

EDIT: Flemeth was pretty damn hard for me, but she should be! She's the Witch of the Wilds! A legend of the setting they got going on!

Oh, I agree. She should be. It's just... a dragon? Out of nowhere. XD

[Mr.Bookworm]

I suppose so.
Problem. I'm a Human Warrior/Champion. Half melee, half tank. I'm sure my highest damage dealer is Morrigan (though in the statistics I get most party-damage on account of sheer volume of kills). Wynne is a pure healer.

Guess who you can't bring. Leaving me Shale to tank, which it is quite good at, while Sten chops it up with the dragon-killing zweihänder. I forgot it's name. I think it's from Warden's Keep DLC.
I'm doing what I do usually. Damage and half-hearted tanking.

Ah, I guess I'll just have to try, try, try again. Like with the first dragon.

EDIT:

Oh, I agree. She should be. It's just... a dragon? Out of nowhere. XD

Actually, the High Dragon is harder than Flemeth, according to the game, and barring the rather cheesy bow/mage strategy that lets you solo the High Dragon.

But, really, you have Wynne. That's practically cheating. Just make sure she's set heals anyone who's health dips below 50, and have a good amount of lyrium potions. Make sure you have the Revive spell, too. Stick her back near that second hut, and you'll be practically invincible.

Then it's just a matter of attrition, since the Dragons have a fuckton of HP.

Also, I take it you haven't met Gaxkang yet?


EDIT: I have 0 failures on my coercion at this point, which halfway concerns me. My Cunning is only 22, and I have the fouth tier of the Coercion skill, as well. Should it be ths easy? [strength 19, for intimidate]

That's why you haven't failed anything. The highest difficulty of a Persuade/Intimate check is 100. Each rank in the Coercion skill gives you +25 (and each point above 10 in Strength/Cunning gives you a +1 on Intimidate/Persuasion). It's literally impossible to fail a check with all four ranks. Excluding a couple that are impossible to succeed on.

[Nikose Tyris]

So wait. Wait. Wait.

Wait.

I'm not wasting any more points on cunning. Got it.

[Arlia Janet]

I found it incredibly humbling to defeat the undead hordes of Redcliffe with no problem to only be killed by a pack of wolves a day's travel outside the city.
Oh well, I'm going to go back and give Leliana a gold necklace to try to get in her pants. Because, obviously, that's all we girls need.

[OhnoesFlanked]

Why is Dragon Age: Origins a good game?

Claudia Black.

/thread

[Osterbaum]

Because one enjoys playing it. No need to analyse further, really.

[Mirai Gen]

Why is Dragon Age: Origins a good game?

Claudia Black.

/thread

Ehhh. She does a great job but I have a kind of hate-on for celebrity voice actors that are hired to do one role.

Sometimes it's acceptable, like Liam Nissen playing Ra's al Dad in Fallout 3.

[Marc v4.0]

So, hey, official full expansion announced today with the release of the Return to Ostagar!

Awakening (http://dragonage.bioware.com/awakening)

[Krylo]

Hmm... Neat.

But, at the same time, if this expansion doesn't deal with hunting down Morrigan and the god baby you impregnated her with I must remain slightly disappointed.

[Osterbaum]

Yeah, IF you did that in the first place. I certainly didn't.

[Azisien]

Release whatever you want Bioware I'll give you money?

[Krylo]

Yeah, IF you did that in the first place. I certainly didn't.

Man, that's just silly. I mean your options are:

A) Die.

B) Have sex with the most attractive non-royalty member of the cast.

C) Force Alistair to have sex with someone he hates.

And the consequences of B and C are cleansing one of the original gods of the world of its darkspawn taint. One would infer that this would probably be a GOOD thing, really, if you're one of the three (out of five) origins that have every reason to think the chantry is full of shit if not right out evil. The consequences of A are killing one of the original gods when you could have conceivably saved them.

So yeah, pretty much would like a follow up on that.

They might be saving it for a full sequel, though. Here's hoping.

Release whatever you want Bioware I'll give you money?

Sooner they release that Star Wars MMORPG so I can start giving them money monthly, the better.

[BitVyper]

Because, obviously, that's all we girls need.

Well some girls need more than one.

[Marc v4.0]

Man, that's just silly. I mean your options are:

A) Die.

B) Have sex with the most attractive non-royalty member of the cast.

C) Force Alistair to have sex with someone he hates.

And the consequences of B and C are cleansing one of the original gods of the world of its darkspawn taint. One would infer that this would probably be a GOOD thing, really, if you're one of the three (out of five) origins that have every reason to think the chantry is full of shit if not right out evil. The consequences of A are killing one of the original gods when you could have conceivably saved them.

So yeah, pretty much would like a follow up on that.

They might be saving it for a full sequel, though. Here's hoping.



Sooner they release that Star Wars MMORPG so I can start giving them money monthly, the better.

Can't you also make Alistair or Loghain sacrifice themselves to kill the Archdemon?

[Krylo]

Maybe. I've never not boned/made Alistair bone Morrigan. I know it doesn't give you a choice on the killing blow if you do bone her, and you're the one that does it, but maybe it does if you don't.

ALSO, on necklaces, Leilianna, and fucking--Leilianna doesn't actually seem to like jewelery that much from what I've noticed. That's more Morrigan's thing. Leilianna is all about chantry garbage and shoes.

[Arlia Janet]

ALSO, on necklaces, Leilianna, and fucking--Leilianna doesn't actually seem to like jewelery that much from what I've noticed. That's more Morrigan's thing. Leilianna is all about chantry garbage and shoes.


Meh, I've decided to turn my attention to Shale.

Also, as a fraternal twin, I found the two dwarf twins at the proving ground extremely disturbing.

[greed]

Hmm... Neat.

But, at the same time, if this expansion doesn't deal with hunting down Morrigan and the god baby you impregnated her with I must remain slightly disappointed.

I always figured that would be the sequel's job. That or you have them as a really important NPC companion. Or hell, either depending on what you choose.

Also so the new game's in Orlais apparently and gives you the option of continuing with your old character or having new local Origins according to wiki. So being a snooty French Dwarf.

[Osterbaum]

Krylo: Regardles of my choices I chose not to inpregnate her. I didn't trust her and I didn't trust what the baby would be. And when the final battle came my options were to let Alistair sacrifice himself or sacrifice myself (I had let Alistair kill Loghain). And I chose to sacrifice myself.

[CABAL49]

Does anyone know of a happy ending for the Dwarves? I thought supporting Lord Harromont, but then he was disposed of and they had a civil war.

[greed]

The best ending is Bhelen. All of Harrowmont's endings don't go well.

[CABAL49]

The best ending is Bhelen. All of Harrowmont's endings don't go well.

But Bhelen is a douche!

[Melfice]

But Bhelen is a douche!

He's also the only one (in a position of leadership) looking out for Orzammar.
I know.

[Krylo]

That's not true, Melfice. Harrowmont is looking out for Orzammar much much more than Bhelen. However, Harrowmont is soft and doesn't have the 'steel' to put down all the rebellions and riots that happen due to how split the dwarven populace were between the two candidates. As a result he can't properly govern and Orzammar falls apart under his leadership. Bhelen on the other hand cares only about his own power and doesn't give two rats asses about Orzammar past the fact that he's in charge of it (assuming you choose him). However, he's also a sociopathic murderer with an iron fist (maaaaybe a slight exaggeration), and is able to easily restore order after he's put in power, which, given all the other things going on, is more necessary than a kind ruler for the dwarven city to prosper.

So, basically Bhelan IS a douche, but a douche is the only thing capable of ruling the dwarves currently. I constantly choose Bhelen anyway, because if the dwarves are going to tear themselves apart from the inside just because their ruler won't execute the fuck out of them, they deserve whatever they get.

Krylo: Regardles of my choices I chose not to inpregnate her. I didn't trust her and I didn't trust what the baby would be. And when the final battle came my options were to let Alistair sacrifice himself or sacrifice myself (I had let Alistair kill Loghain). And I chose to sacrifice myself.
I'm guessing you were human and never bothered to get Morrigan's relationship metric high?

'cause she's actually pretty trust worthy. My only worry about it coming back to bite me was Flemeth not being totally dead and going after the baby, as that cleansing the true high god in Morrigan's womb was HER plan from the start. Morrigan, however, can be trusted, and the only reason I can figure you wouldn't trust her is if you didn't ever really bother with her relationship. Or if you were one of the two origins that the chantry don't spend all their time trying to kill the fuck out of. Seriously, chantry is very not nice, and I just pretty much disregarded anything their believes said was bad--like the original high gods being bad. You don't get to slaughter mages and commit genocide/slavery because someone doesn't worship the same god and still be a moral authority in my book.

[Osterbaum]

I was actually a male city-elf. But I didn't really 'get it on' with anyone. From my perspective Morrigan was a spiteful and arrogant individual, who despite her moments was untrustworthy. As for Flemeth, I didn't battle her. And as for the Chantry, I really held no love for them either. There existed atleast a general disstrust towards them.

[Krylo]

You don't need to get it on to have a high relationship matrix.

[Osterbaum]

Indeed. It's just that I every time I started a conversation with her it seemed that I got negative points for some reason or another.

[Jagos]

Is she all about the bling?

[Grimpond]

She Fucking loves it.

[Krylo]

Indeed. It's just that I every time I started a conversation with her it seemed that I got negative points for some reason or another.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/krylo/Morrigan.png

[CABAL49]

Morrigan also had more gifts than anyone else.

[Marc v4.0]

I had a bit of a hard time getting points with her at time, she was more difficult to read at times.

Shale gave me trouble too, but I figured out what to say to her rather quickly

[Solid Snake]

Heh. And I was just about to create a topic asking whether Dragon Age: Origins was a worthwhile purchase, as I just learned my PC more than met the minimum requirements. I'm guessing based on Blues' rant that I should just wait until Mass Effect 2, eh?

[Eltargrim]

No, the general consensus is that PC DA:O is bloody amazing and you should get it now. Blues rant only included the first little bit of the game; it picks up massively after that.

[Kim]

Heh. And I was just about to create a topic asking whether Dragon Age: Origins was a worthwhile purchase, as I just learned my PC more than met the minimum requirements. I'm guessing based on Blues' rant that I should just wait until Mass Effect 2, eh?

Read the rest of the thread.

[Solid Snake]

Read the rest of the thread.

Yeah, fine! That's what I get for being lazy. I trusted you, Blues! I nearly refused to purchase this game because you got the first word in!

(I'm still sort of torn as to whether I'll ultimately purchase Origins, though. I actually didn't enjoy Mass Effect nearly as much as I thought I would. I know, blasphemous, particularly since I once created an LP topic for the game. In part I think I had unrealistically high expectations with Mass Effect, but much of the experience just felt like a poor man's KOTOR. This might have been simply because I played as an Adept, or whoever the "magic-using" class was...)

Also NonCon if your GamepadDojo site is looking for an awesome writer...aww, crap, I can't advertise myself for the honor. For one law school usurps all my free time, and in addition, I don't own much in terms of this-gen console hardware.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Jesus christ. Just how much does this take from WoW?

/edit: Not story wise, but alot of the game seems so familiar in that sence. Several of the icons look like it was lifted straight from WoW.

Goddammit BioWare. Why the hell do you ship bug ridden games. Jesus Christ.

[Azisien]

I haven't run into a single bug yet on the PC version.

Couple issues with repeating cutscenes in 360 version though.

[Krylo]

Jesus christ. Just how much does this take from WoW?

/edit: Not story wise, but alot of the game seems so familiar in that sence. Several of the icons look like it was lifted straight from WoW.


...Only what WoW ripped off from Neverwinter Nights and KotoR. Bars with square clicky icons that have ridiculously simplistic graphics pre-date WoW by about a million years, and other than that the interface is NOTHING like WoW, and the setting bares only as much resemblance as any other generic fantasy world.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

I just found a spelling error.

This is a western made game. This is 2010. Spelling errors in modern media should not be.

Goddammit

/edit: Never played Neverwinter Nights and my memories of KoToR are filled with bile and anger, I may be in the wrong here.

[Krylo]

KotoR. Have I seen humanoid shapes with Pluses on them for healing before? (http://www.aoaforums.com/frontpage/images/stories/Articles/200503/kotor2/kotor2_screen1.jpg)
Diablo 1. Those potions look familiar. (http://www.wfh.cz/obraz/blbustky/diablo1.jpg)
EQ. Not a bar, but I'm SURE I've seen those icons on warrior bars. (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/lordsofeq/images/0/3/)
Neverwinter. Is that a level 5 rogue bar? (http://static2.videogamer.com/videogamer/images/pc/neverwinter_nights_2/screens/neverwinter_nights_2_94.jpg)
Asheron's Call. That's some inventory, eh? Doesn't look like my level 60 paladin's at all. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v700/davidthebear/0104.jpg)

Also, what spelling error?

The internet seems to know of no spelling errors.

Though there's something like a million novels worth of text or some shit, so it wouldn't surprise me if there was one or two.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

KotoR. Have I seen humanoid shapes with Pluses on them for healing before? (http://www.aoaforums.com/frontpage/images/stories/Articles/200503/kotor2/kotor2_screen1.jpg)
Diablo 1. Those potions look familiar. (http://www.wfh.cz/obraz/blbustky/diablo1.jpg)
EQ. Not a bar, but I'm SURE I've seen those icons on warrior bars. (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/lordsofeq/images/0/3/)
Neverwinter. Is that a level 5 rogue bar? (http://static2.videogamer.com/videogamer/images/pc/neverwinter_nights_2/screens/neverwinter_nights_2_94.jpg)

Also, what spelling error?

The internet seems to know of no spelling errors.

Though there's something like a million novels worth of text or some shit, so it wouldn't surprise me if there was one or two.

Then I admit my err in the first com[plaint, but in my defence, I have played WoW more then the others.

It's one of the more obious ones. Again, I may be nit picking, but the description for Shale's Renewed Assault it reads

Whenever Stona Aura is active...

To me this game just feels un polished.

[Azisien]

To me this game just feels un polished.

To me you just sound like a whiny baby.

Even if there were only 100 typos in the game's 30 paperback novels worth of text, I think that would be 100 less than the average.

Console version probably is unpolished though. Bioware didn't even do the port. And it shows.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

To me you just sound like a whiny baby.

Even if there were only 100 typos in the game's 30 paperback novels worth of text, I think that would be 100 less than the average.

Console version probably is unpolished though. Bioware didn't even do the port. And it shows.

The Misspell is the icing on the cake. I have a bunch of gripes with the game.

[Krylo]

You didn't like KotoR, and didn't play NWN.

I'm... not sure why you were expecting to like it?

Edit: And Shale is DLC. I had to check to make sure that typo exists. It does.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

You didn't like KotoR, and didn't play NWN.

I'm... not sure why you were expecting to like it?

Edit: And Shale is DLC. I had to check to make sure that typo exists. It does.

I was giving the game a chance. I heard from alot of people that the game was good.

I am enjoying it fior the most part, but there is alot of stuff that ruins the game. Same with KoToR. I enjoyed that, but the bugs (including not allowing me to see the end of the game) ruined it for me.

[Krylo]

I don't know what bugs you are talking about.

Beat the game three times, and the only bug I ever ran into was some graphical glitching that fixed right up as soon as I updated my vid drivers. Well that and it'd freeze occasionally if I played it for like eight hours straight.

KotoR had a lot of bugs, though. But then, I just played it recently, and it's not supported on 64bit Vista, so I just attributed most of the bugs I dealt with to my own stupid ass.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

I'm on the console. Ps3 to be exact.

[Azisien]

I'm on the console. Ps3 to be exact.

Console was ported by Edge of Reality, and it definitely shows. Though despite being completely unclear about everything (probably because it wouldn't substantiate to much), it sounds fairly PS3 based. Which sucks I guess.

Since I play the game on both PC and X360 and it plays fine on both, being about ten times better on the PC.

[CABAL49]

Mine says Stone Aura. 1.02 patch and whatnot.

[Krylo]

It says it in the description of one of the abilities. The third one in Shale's tanking line.

Mine self updates, due to Steam, so it should be like that on all versions.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

For all the grief I give the game, I will say that most of the characters are redeemable and I like them. Especially Shale. He's like a cranky, medieval version of HK-47

[Marc v4.0]

I can't enjoy games like this on the PC at all. I get caught up in modding and the ability to cheat like a fiend is too ever-present and I end up just getting bored.

I really like the console version, and to be honest I've not run into any problems at all except those caused by Biowares inability to hire proper testers for their patches

[Melfice]

Mac, can you give me some examples of the bugs you've run into?
Because I'm playing it on PS3 too, and aside from the audio-glitch (and even then, I play with the subtitles, so it's not really bothersome), I've not run into any bugs or glitches that detriment from the playing experience.

[Marc v4.0]

Console was ported by Edge of Reality, and it definitely shows.

Also, it shows how what?

[Azisien]

Also, it shows how what?

That the game doesn't really play as well. I guess if you don't like PCs, well, that's that, but in terms of playing the game like the throwback it is (BG, NWN), then Bioware's quality seal is slightly lacking in the console version. Even the technical achievements are underwhelming, and its not like the consoles couldn't handle prettier stuff (MW2, ME, even L4D).

Edit: And to be clear, I'm not even really dissing the console version either, but I own both so I consider my judgement reasonable. It's still great on the consoles too. But enough chat on that note, my inevitable Gamepad Dojo review will spew it all.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Mac, can you give me some examples of the bugs you've run into?
Because I'm playing it on PS3 too, and aside from the audio-glitch (and even then, I play with the subtitles, so it's not really bothersome), I've not run into any bugs or glitches that detriment from the playing experience.

I've had to repeat quests in the Fade, i've seen it replay the same movi after doing a quest.

[Melfice]

I've had to repeat quests in the Fade, i've seen it replay the same movi after doing a quest.

Nothing I've had happening to me.
Weird.

There was one point in the game, now that you mention it, where I've had the same cut scene happning to me. This was because, rather than let the game itself (or the NPC, however you want to look at it) initiate conversation, I did so.
Other than that, those two bugs are new to me.

[Nikose Tyris]

Mac:
KOTOR was great. In my eyes, DA:O is this fabulous KOTOR-like game that defies logic in it's beauty.

I have a PS3 and am playing it on that, and I have absolutely no complaints. Maybe you just have a crappy PS3?

The only issue I've run into is a single softlock, but I think that was due to malicious user path.

[Also RA Salvatore, creator of Drizzt, has on average 1 spelling error per 5 pages. On AVERAGE. This game has one, POSSIBLY 2. That doesn't bother me at all. Those are "D-Rank" bugs for a reason.]

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Hey Nik:

Did you get game breaking glitches in KoToR. Or a glitch thad had the Ebon Hawk full of Wookies growling at the same time? Or a glitch that PREVENTIED YOU FROM SEEING THE END OF THE GAME!

No. I do not have fond memories of KoToR. I changed my tune with DA: O though.

[CABAL49]

I had KOTOR for Xbox, and I never had a single game breaking glitch. I did find a few gmode glitches on my own, but the game always ran really smooth for me.

[Kim]

Okay, so me being no less than one month behind trends at all times, I finally started playing this game last night. I did not sleep. The story is cliche and predictable, and does nothing to endear itself to me. BUT the characters are so very fleshed out and likable, except Sten, and I have a boner for well developed characters. The gameplay is good, even if I'm terrible at it. It's challenging, but the ability to save anywhere keeps this from being nearly as frustrating as it could be. In short: Really, really liking this game.

[Funka Genocide]

I've got to say that I am sorely disappointed by the sex scenes. Honestly, who bones with their underwear on?

Also it made me feel kind of like a horrible person since my character literally went from one tent to the next. The fact that most seem to be conveniently noncommittal is probably for the best. Having my adventure end by being beaten to death by jealous lovers doesn't sound terribly heroic.

[Yrcrazypa]

I think this game is one occasion where a game suffers for being too long. I had a lot of fun for the first fifty hours or so, but then I just got bored. It was a sudden kind of bored, but it happened.

And the camera... the camera is just bad. If something is on a hill, you can't see it unless you spend time messing with the camera. In Denerim? All those arches get in the way of the camera. Low ceiling somewhere? Haha, camera messes up. For trying to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, the camera is just awful.

Some other gripes I had were that because the way the game is designed, you find one strategy, and use it in every fight for the whole game, with the only additions being one or two extra steps in that plan. Sure, you could not use that strategy, but since it's more based off of having a few abilities that you can use constantly, with only a cooldown separating uses, you are just artificially gimping yourself by not using your abilities. Mana/stamina have never been a limiting factor, since it regenerates. I never find myself pausing the game and going "Hmmmm, how can I get out of this mess?" because you know what is always the answer? Kill it with fire. If fire doesn't work, kill it with rocks/lightning. With Baldur's Gate, situations like that were regular, because you have limited resources, so every action counts. Making a mistake is either something that will cripple you later, or something you reload and try again to fix. In Dragon Age, the only mistakes that matter are the ones that kill your entire party, because if you survive the battle making dozens of mistakes, hey, you are good as new after it!

I don't much care for that kind of gameplay. The game itself isn't bad, don't get me wrong. Certainly better than a lot of other games I've played, and I was thoroughly entertained for a good 55-60 hours or so, but looking back on it, it didn't have me as hooked as the Infinity Engine games did. Baldur's Gate 2 is still one of the best RPGs of all time, along with Planescape: Torment, because the gameplay is solid, the art style of the games are excellent, with beautiful backgrounds, and ,especially in Planescape: Torment's case, beautiful spell effects.

I could go on, but I'm rambling now, so I won't.

[Funka Genocide]

I think a lot of the "forgiving" nature of Dragon Age is sewed right up when you max the difficulty.

Normal is meant for us average joes, if you're an old hand at these kind of strategy based rpg's you'd probably be best served on higher settings.

I haven't had many issues with the camera, but I usually don't fault games for their camera foibles unless they're just unplayable.

As for one strategy, I assume that's just a matter of personal preference. I usually just think of random stuff on the fly while playing and see what I can get away with.

I never really find myself with an overabundance of resources in fights, but I"ve yet to put in 60 hours. I suppose with maxed out characters on normal mode it might feel a little trivial, but that's when you're supposed to beat the game.

[Krylo]

I think Yrcrazy might be playing on easy mode or someshit if he never ran out of mana at 60 hours in.

Bullshit you aren't running out of mana/stamina on any of the big boss fights. You guys know which ones. Or even some of the fights of attrition like the bridge battle in the deep roads.

Further: Kill it with fire/boulders/etc. only works in the early stages of the game against groups of easily mopped up bandits and what have you. Try that shit in some of the later battles and you will just get ass raped.

Mages aren't DPS or Healing. They can work well in that regard to an EXTENT, but your pots are better healing, and your warriors can match the DPS of your mages if you buff them.

No, mages are buff, debuff, and CC. If you are using them for anything else and not having trouble on anything higher than easy mode at 60 hours in you are either full of shit or they patch nerfed the game considerably since release.

Or maybe he's dicking around a lot and hasn't done the Deep Roads, Andraste's Ashes, or Morrigan's quest yet.

...Or any revenants, for that matter.

[Kim]

The game is sixty hours? I dunno. I'm twenty-one hours in and it doesn't feel like a sixty hour game. I'm going out of my way to make nicey nice with all of my teammates, except Sten because fuck Sten, I'm doing a fair amount of sidequests, my party is about level thirteen, and, as far as I know, I'm about halfway through the game. Then again, probably some epic shit goes down soon that can come up with another twenty hours of gameplay.

Also, is the level cap at twenty in this?

[Krylo]

I clocked in about 50 hours per play on average. Little under on later play throughs little over on earlier ones.

I would guess it's POSSIBLE to play 60 hours and not get that far if you like... left it idling a lot or something.

Edit: Not sure what level cap is, IF there is one, but my warrior is at level 22 on my end game save.

[bluestarultor]

From the Dragon Age Wiki:

The maximum level in game is 25. However, the developers expect that most players will be level 15-20 if they complete the game and all the side quests; and level 17-22 if they complete the game and all the downloadable content. There is not enough content in game to reach the maximum level of 25.


There are ways around this, of course. They'll probably be filling it out with DLC, and if you donate stuff to the emissaries in your camp, you get 10 EXP per item, and there are also abusable glitches.

[Yrcrazypa]

I think Yrcrazy might be playing on easy mode or someshit if he never ran out of mana at 60 hours in.

Bullshit you aren't running out of mana/stamina on any of the big boss fights. You guys know which ones. Or even some of the fights of attrition like the bridge battle in the deep roads.

Further: Kill it with fire/boulders/etc. only works in the early stages of the game against groups of easily mopped up bandits and what have you. Try that shit in some of the later battles and you will just get ass raped.

Mages aren't DPS or Healing. They can work well in that regard to an EXTENT, but your pots are better healing, and your warriors can match the DPS of your mages if you buff them.

No, mages are buff, debuff, and CC. If you are using them for anything else and not having trouble on anything higher than easy mode at 60 hours in you are either full of shit or they patch nerfed the game considerably since release.

Or maybe he's dicking around a lot and hasn't done the Deep Roads, Andraste's Ashes, or Morrigan's quest yet.

...Or any revenants, for that matter.

Deep Roads and revenants were hard until I took the heal spell. And I was playing on normal. The High Dragon in Andrastes Ashes? Easy fight, Shale took all the damage and I just used my mage to heal. Once I got the heal spell? Revenants were a piece of cake, because they couldn't damage me faster than I could reposition and heal. Morrigan's quest against the dragon was even easier than the High Dragon, because I had Wynne and my main character keeping Shale alive. Protip: Dragons don't breathe fire on you nearly as much when only one person is in range of it.

[Kim]

You are a goddamned liar.

[bluestarultor]

You are a goddamned liar.

Mages are actually pretty damn broken. On the other hand, I don't have a healing build (that's what Wynne is for), so I'm not sure if the combined power of two healers + the awesome of Shale = you win the game.

[Krylo]

It doesn't Blues.

The heal spell is pretty much shit and far too expensive.

Edit: And the fire breathing is actually one of the least dangerous dragon attacks if you go in knowing you're against a giant fire-breathing lizard.

[Azisien]

The Shatter spell combo for mages is pretty damn awesome but that aside I don't find them particularly overpowered or anything.

[bluestarultor]

The Shatter spell combo for mages is pretty damn awesome but that aside I don't find them particularly overpowered or anything.

I find ice spells in general to be pretty effective. But that's my bias.

[Krylo]

Two mages alternating CoC can be pretty OP in a lot of of fights, but in the ones you REALLY want it in, CoC either fails to work entirely, or only stops them for a second, which brings it more inline with other abilities.

Fire spells CAN pump out some decent damage, but not to the point of trivializing, say, a well played dual wield warrior, and never discount the usefulness of Arrow of Slaying in nearly every fight. Lightning spells are awesome when used against you, but never really do enough bang for their buck when used BY you, unfortunately. Stone spells are useful for the knock downs more than the damage, but the CC on a knock down is pretty shit compared to a freeze, which leaves them mostly only useful as a much cheaper/faster ice shatter combo than crushing prison.

Also, in general, your best DPS on dragons is going to be a two handed warrior. Dragons have ridiculous fire resist, will outlive your mana bar, will resist AoS, and will toss around all your other meleers like rag dolls. Two-handed warriors have a knockback immunity, however.

[Funka Genocide]

I think what we have here is a case of epeen self stimulation. But guess what? There's a reason my fighter is s "two handed weapons specialist".

[Raiden]

The only reason everyone complains about mages being broken is because yes, Mages do tend to release a crapload of damage from a distance. You're trying to run to where they are and they're blasting you with Fireball and crap to make all your allies explode.

The downsides are that mages, unless they're Arcane Warriors, are Glass Cannons. Only a few hits, especially from a Templar, are going to destroy them. Plus, they're going to run out of mana very quickly, especially against a Templar again who has "Rain Death From The Sky". You want to make mages obsolete? Hit them with divine justice from above right when the fighting starts.

[BitVyper]

Mana/stamina have never been a limiting factor, since it regenerates.

I always liked the way Saga Frontier handled this: HP regenerates at the end of battle, so you're not going to the potion menu every five seconds like in other RPGs. Life points, and the two MP stats don't regenerate, and items that restore them are few and far between. So yeah, you'll be back at full HP if you make it out of the battle alive, but it won't do you much good if your entire party is drained and only doing damage in the double digits.

The whole set up was nice because it kept you out of having to go to the menu and restore everything any time you had a battle. Helped the game feel a lot more fluid.

I haven't played DA, mind, so I have no idea how it holds up in this regard.

[Krylo]

The only reason everyone complains about mages being broken is because yes, Mages do tend to release a crapload of damage from a distance. You're trying to run to where they are and they're blasting you with Fireball and crap to make all your allies explode.

The downsides are that mages, unless they're Arcane Warriors, are Glass Cannons. Only a few hits, especially from a Templar, are going to destroy them. Plus, they're going to run out of mana very quickly, especially against a Templar again who has "Rain Death From The Sky". You want to make mages obsolete? Hit them with divine justice from above right when the fighting starts.

Well that works ok and all, but really?

Arrow of Slaying. It one shots enemy mages unless they're elites and fires pretty much instantly. If they're elites it still tends to take a huge chunk out of their HP.

Actually Arrow of Slaying one shots pretty much anything at all that isn't elite, which is why it's so useful. It's like having a button where at the beginning of battle you can decide, "Hey, that guy looks dangerous," then you push the button and he's dead.

[Jagos]

It's like having a button where you can decide, "Hey, I F*&%ed your mom," then you push the button and he's dead.

:D