Final Fantasy X (The Longest Journey)

[Kim]

So, I'm about a decade late to the party, but I figured I should probably get playing FFX out of the way before FFXIII came out, so I could decide whether FFXIII being more like X than XII was a legitimate reason to be disinterested.

As NPF members, it is your solemn duty to give me tips for where to look for cool/funny stuff, how to get awesome optional stuff, and so on. And also probably to provide decent counter-arguments to me making fun of the game, which is done mostly just for fun, and not me being any kind of serious.

The game starts off with a scene from later on in the game set to really pretty piano music. It is at this point that we learn our first thing about this game. You can't skip the cutscenes. After a piercing glare from me, and a single line of dialogue from Tidus, we go to the real beginning of our tale... The Future. You know it's The Future because everything is neon and nobody has any fashion sense, including Tidus who decided the best thing to compliment his yellow, boy band half-shirt would be half a pair of pants with suspenders attached.

It isn't long before we learn the second interesting fact about The Future, and that's that everybody suffers from some sort throat condition, as shown through the universally terrible voices all across the board. Apparently this condition is more prevalent amongst the poor, as Tidus, a goddamn pimp who be rollin' in the moneys and the honeys, doesn't have quite as awful a voice.

After signing everyone's soccer balls, a trio of young boys ask Tidus to teach them how to blitz. Tidus gives a tentative "blitzing" date of that night. I don't know what blitzing is, so I'm left with the assumption that Tidus is some sort of creepy pedophile and they are his harem. Unfortunately for them, Tidus' boyfriend says that he can't tonight, for reasons unexplained. I have to assume the small, cloaked child is Tidus boyfriend, because no other explanation for who he is is given, yet Tidus does what he's told at a moments notice.

Tidus starts running down the road, which is occupied by people but no cars, and an announcer talks about some sports dude named Jecht. I thought that the announcer was announcing stuff at the sports dome, but he stopped talking the moment Tidus got there and was swarmed by pretty girls, so I guess not. After escaping the crowd of pretty girls, because Tidus just doesn't swing that way, he enters the sports dome, which is built around a giant water balloon, minus the balloon. Cue cutscene.

Apparently they play some form of soccer/football in this aquasphere, and I can't help but think that this is a very dangerous sport, since nothing keeps you inside the sphere. Proving my assumption, we see someone get knocked out into the crowd. Apparently spectating isn't safe either.

Rob Zombie is singing off-screen during the whole competition, and we cut to an old man with a broken arm and a jug of booze. He's standing on the ledge of some building, but we don't really know why. Before a decent reason can be given, Water Balloon's older brother comes out of nowhere to unleash vengeance upon mankind for trapping and using its sibling in the name of some silly sport. I don't know what Big Balloon is, but apparently he fires lasers and pod people, so he is not to be trifled with.

As the sports dome explodes, Tidus falls. Maybe I blinked when it happened, but I don't think we ever see how he survives the fall. He just does. Running outside he meets Old Man, who is apparently named Auron. Auron is Tidus' ex-boyfriend, I guess. Further clarifying who's who, Auron tells us that Big Balloon is called Sin by... someone...

Tidus current boyfriend shows up, freezing time because apparently he can do that. He tells Tidus not to cry, further cementing the blondie into the yaoi fanfic role of uke, before disappearing mysteriously. Tidus is largely unfazed by this turn of events, and joins Jecht in a charge towards Sin.

Pod people attack and Jecht gives Tidus a sword. Tidus wobbles side to side like a drunk struggling to hold it aloft with both hands, before Auron says the sword belonged to Jecht, who it turns out is Tidus' father. Auron asks Tidus if he can use the sword, at which point Tidus gains the strength of not one Who but ten and can now wield the sword one-handed with relative ease.

Combat happens, which is standard turn-based stuff, but you at least know the order so that's kind of nice. There are mini-cutscenes between the battles at this part, and you can't even pause those ones which is kind of a pain. The combat seems like it needs to steal the Auto/Rush button from the SMT games because it feels kinda slow and not very dynamic. Also, there are limit breaks and you have to do some sort of mini-game to do them like Simon Says or pressing X when the line is in the gray area. Luckily, I'm "GREAT" at it.

TL;DR - I don't hate it yet!

[EVILNess]

A few things, everyone fights and you should have everyone do something every fight otherwise they get NO AP which is bad. FF10 is one of those FFs where everyone starts different but then they all kinda meld into the same character with different limit breaks as the game goes on. Still not as bad FF12 or FF6, and that is super late game.

Some tips? Everyone should learn Steal (or Mug), Bribe, Use, and you should seriously try for Double Cast as fast as possible for Lulu and Yuna.

Use everyone in every fight if possible. It may make the indiviual battles last longer, but if makes the overall leveling faster.

The ultimate weapons are crazy stupid hard to fully get in this game and honestly break all balance of the game. Honestly, they aren't required and are a pain to get. Do get the optional summons though.

Blitzball is dumb. Worst minigame ever.

If I think of some more then I'll edit the post

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Going on what Evil just said, I concur with using everyone in every battle. Even if all you do is switch characters in and out and have them guard for a turn they will still get AP, and it keeps everyone levelled up at the same rate. If you don't do this, then some characters, such as Kimahri, can end up severely lagging behind.

Further points on characters and how to level them;

To start with, every character will be on their own section of the sphere grid, and it's a mostly straight run through their own section, but eventualy you'll reach the end and will need to branch off into other areas. Kimahri will be the first to finish, and I like to send him off down Rikkus path first. Auron and Tidus are basically the opposites of each other, so once each has finished his own sections they should really swap places, to aquire all the speed/strength that the other has. Wakka I like to send down Aurons section too, for the extra strength buff. The mages Yuna and Lulu should also swap sides, so they both gain black and white magic and increased magic power. Finally I send Rikku down Lulus path, for the black magics, because she has some seriously untapped magic power, at one point my Rikku was casting more powerful spells than Lulu.

One point I don't agree with Evilness on; Blitzball. I honestly don't get all the hate for it, it seems I'm the only person in the world who liked Blitzball. If it turns out you do wanna play some I can give you tips on team setup and things. Just make sure you learn the Jecht Shot while on the boat after Kilika. Save the game right after the island so if you screw up you can do it again, even if you don't plan on playing Blitz all that much, because Blitz is at the very least good for one thing; Attack Reels. It's an overdrive for Wakka that you have to win, and it's one of the most powerful attacks in the game. Make sure you get it, you won't be dissapointed.

Oh and right after you leave Besaid vilage, head back in and find the dog. Trust me, you'll love what you find.

[greed]

Yeah Blitzball is a real love it or hate it thing. I hate it myself.

Also tips. The characters are as others said mostly the same once you finish their sphere grid paths, but Yuna definitely stands out as the strongest due to great magic stats and summons(which are absurdly broken in this game), so use black magic spheres to give Lulu's spells to Yuna, cause once she has them she becomes an excellent attacker as well as an excellent healer. Also get time magic (it's on Tidus' path) as quickly as possible and on as many people as possible using white magic spheres, it's very helpful in this game.


Which version are you playing BTW? The NTSC one or the PAL? If you're playing PAL make sure you check everywhere around Yunalesca's battlefield. After you fight her if you go back later a bonus boss will stop you from getting one of the items needed for Tidus' ultimate weapon til after you beat it.

[Kim]

I assume I'm playing the American version because I'm an American and I bought it in Americaland.

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Goddammit why can't I move the cameraaaaaaaaa?!

I think it's kinda nifty that the main character is just pretending to have amnesia, instead of actually having amnesia. It's like the Anti-Cloud.

I feel for him on the bitching about being cold thing, because mild hypothermia is a bitch, but I really don't like the semi-constant narration.

Regarding the Al-Bhed language: Language doesn't work like that... *shakes head*

Serious Question: Is Rikku voiced by the same lady who voices Emily Elizabeth in the Clifford the Big Red Dog cartoon?

So far we've got a 50/50 on shitty character designs. Tidus, Wakka, and Lulu have really dumb lookin' character designs. Auron's isn't bad, and it's at least better than the one for Vincent in FF7. The furry dude might not have a bad one, but I haven't gotten a reasonable look at it yet. Yuna's is actually the best one in the entire game. The whole shrine maiden look for being a summoner really works, and my only complaint is that outside of cinematic sequences the sash looks too big in the back.

Sphere grid isn't too bad. I haven't seen enough of it to really decide how I feel about it, though.

Combat for regular battles hasn't progressed beyond press X repeatedly and don't even both changing targets, so I'm really hurtin' for a Rush button right now.

Lastly, the first summon just looks dumb. I hope the others are better.

EDIT: I love and hate Lulu's victory pose. It's so shamelessly "Look at my boobies see how they jiggle" that I can't really take it seriously, and the only entertainment I get from it is how stupid it is.

[Krylo]

Tips:

That thing everyone else is saying about switching characters?

Fuck that.

No really.

There's a few more worthwhile characters--like Lulu, Yuna, Rikku, and Auron--than what you can keep in the party at any given time. HOWEVER--unless you plan on playing blitzball forevers to get his ultimate weapon and ultimate limit breaks, Wakka is only good for killing fliers, and anyone with black magic can do the same. He has some neat status fucking abilities, but they're of pretty limited use, honestly, due to higher end enemies having pretty good resistance to them, and he has low enough mp that ehhhh.

And Kimahri?

Kimahri is the most useless piece of shit to ever be put in a game.

Now, as has been said, everyone pretty much melds together if you grind/at end game due to skipping and hopping to other people's section of the board. Unfortunately for Kimahri, this means that the only true defining feature is their limit breaks.

When you get Kimahri use jump on someone. Then attack that same person with any other member of your party.

Then sigh loudly because none of his limits other than, like, Mighty Guard and White Wind are any better than that. And those two can be replicated/done far better with Rikku's mix. He also starts the game with pretty shitty stats, and his natural sphere grid progression is shitty.


NOW, all of that alone would NOT be reason to say fuck them when it comes to leveling everyone together.

No no, the thing that makes all that translate into picking a few characters (make sure yuna is one) and leveling them is this--SPHERE STARVATION.

If you try to level everyone you'll notice it first just before macalania woods with ability spheres. You will have everyone sitting there on the board with something like 18 sphere levels just staring at the grid longingly as you can't level them any further without skipping over abilities. You should never skip over abilities (or anything else).

Now, you could, conceivably, farm spheres like a mother fucker against the fish in the very beginning or spend three hours on the miihen highroad because there is an enemy there that drops them, but he's pretty rare to run into.

OR you could just not level every single member of your party and it should be fine.

THAT SAID, if you are going to level every single member and farm ability spheres, move Kimahri into Rikku's path ASAP. Don't even learn anything on his past what it takes to get him to the entrance to Rikku's.

The reason being that there is exactly one use for Kimahri, and that is learning steal early on so that you can steal items from enemies before you get Rikku. This only works if you don't run out of ability spheres, though.

And DO make sure you level Yuna. Her summons are the most powerful abilities you have, and summon stats are based on Yuna's stats. This also makes Yuna the best choice for empty spot filling spheres most of the time.


ALSO: Unless you really love ridiculous grinding and power gaming I wouldn't bother teaching everyone steal/use. It's far far far from necessary and I don't know about you but using steal with every single character in every single fight is just kind of aggravating to me. Same goes for leveling every character, too, but there are more prescient reasons to not do that, at least at first.

Basically, though, I would honestly just play it casually. IT IS NOT A HARD GAME. All the power gaming advice above, from both me and others, is entirely unnecessary so don't even bother unless you really want to.

As for blitzball, it's not bad if you learn how to play. Tips: DO LEARN JECHT SHOT. Even if you never ever plan on playing. Not because of Wakka (because fuck wakka, the only point to keeping him is if you feel like power gaming and breaking the game with his ultimate weapon/limit), but because there is one game the computer MAKES you play. You will NEED Jecht shot to have a chance in hell at it, and you will feel really bad if you lose.

Also: The aurochs are basically the best blitzball players. They seem to suck because they all start at level one and you're up against level 5 etc. teams straight off, but they have very well rounded stats and some of the absolute best level progression. Other players have much more specialized stats that can be obnoxious, like guados and their super passes that are more or less impossible to stop, or the untackleability of the ronso, but the original team is more or less your best bet for a well balanced team once you get them some levels.

I've won a few leagues on my most recent play through and have, literally, not lost a single game using only the original Auroch team. Just make sure you have money to rehire them, because their contracts do eventually expire.


OHhh, and on combat. Turn order--pay attention to this when you're choosing skills/spells/abilities. The turn order will readjust itself to predict what will happen if you use that ability. So you can see if using haste on your character now will let you go once more before the opponent, or how useful a delay attack/buster would be at this point.

Which is great if say... you have Yuna out and someone as low hp. You can check to see if it's possible to get Yuna to go before the enemy before committing to trying it, and therefore know if you're better off dealing damage with your other characters and having Yuna cure the hurt person, or if you're better off using items to keep them alive until Yuna can drop the real heals.

It's incredibly useful if you bother learning how to use it.

[Kim]

Couple questions real quick like:

1. I take it what I think are jerky animations, terrible facial expressions, and even worse voice acting were pretty par or even better than normal for when this came out?

2. Do buffs stack, how high can they stack, and how long do they last? Basically, I'm wondering if there's any point to having Tidus spam cheer during a boss fight or if once is all I should do.

3. Does the dialogue between Tidus and Yuna ever improve beyond "The wind... feels nice." *both bust into laughter for no apparent reason*


Also, I will go out of my way to say that the music is fucking gorgeous.

[Amake]

Voice acting was pretty new, at least. I wish you could turn it off. Buffs like Cheer stack five times until the end of the fight, and all they give is +1 to a stat. Those stats go up to 255 you know, and you're going to want to max all of them if you're going after the optimal bosses, the Dark Aeons and those guys.

The last and greatest of them, if memory serves, has 255 in all stats except Speed which is 250; 12 million hit points, outrageous seven-digit strong autocast Regen spells and two respawning helpers which, if both are alive at the same time, can end the game in one stroke. Fun times.

Leveling just the three or four best characters to max take geological ages by the way, even if you're cheating. (That's Yuna, Wakka and Tidus simply because their strongest attacks have 16, 12 and 9 strikes respectively, with Rikku's utility placing her at a distant fourth. Damage is king, boring but true. It's worth considering leveling Auron because he has an attack with two strikes.)

And yeah, as I recall Tidus and Yuna have some pretty deep stuff happening between them. Though it may be mostly gestures, glances and underwater dances. It's probably best to ignore the words coming out of their mouths.

In closing, I'll second that the Aurochs are the best Blitzball team, but not for the above reasons. They're by far the cheapest to keep around, and you need a team of four polygon bodies while Tidus grabs the ball, beats up the defensive line with Jecht shot, scores and repeats upwards of 30 times per game.

[Dauntasa]

The problem with not using Kimahri is that there's a solo fight with him later on in the game, and while it is scaled to his level it will really fuck you over if you haven't used him at all. Oh, and have you left Besaid on the boat yet? Because what was said earlier about the dog in Besaid village was kinda misleading. It has something really important in it's mouth, and you can only get it after you're supposed to be heading to the boat to leave the island, but before you actually get on the boat. If you get on the boat, you can't get it until really late in the game when it's not nearly as useful. And no, the dialogue never gets any better.

EDIT: And if you want to learn Jecht Shot for blitzball (and if you play blitzball or plan to play blitzball, then you should), there's only one possible chance to get it. At one point, you'll end up playing a little minigame while Tidus screws around with a blitzball. Playing is mandatory, but you can fail and you don't get another chance. If you win, you get Jecht Shot, which is the second best blitzball technique, and is required for learning the best one.

[Amake]

First time I played the game I spent like five minutes leveling Khimari, and beat his solo fight on the second try. It'll probably take a lot less than that if you stop by GameFAQs. . .

They have a lot of interesting stuff there about the game, come to think of it. Formulas for Yojimbo that no mere mortal could figure out and such. (When he asks, tell him you need him to defeat the greatest enemies. Then fight with him a lot and never let him die to build the loyalty meter the game doesn't give you any clue exists. Not that you want to actually use him to breeze through the game or anything, that's so unsporting, it's much more fun to put in a thousand man-hours to level up your guys right? But it's fun to have the option. Oh and the money you pay him counts in binary numbers, so make it 1024 gil to get twice the effect of 1023 and so on.)

[Dauntasa]

Speaking of Yojimbo, he is the best Aeon, although he's tricky to use. He is also, however, completely optional and therefore quite possible to miss, though you can always go back and get him later. And you have to pay him. But he's worth it, because one of his attacks will kill anything in the game in a single hit. Anything. Including the Super Secret Bonus Boss.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Couple questions real quick like:

1. I take it what I think are jerky animations, terrible facial expressions, and even worse voice acting were pretty par or even better than normal for when this came out?

compare FF X to XII and even X-2 and yeah it is gonna be crappy, but when you take into consideration how old it is and how far the games have progressed, then it is still decent.

That said Khimari sucks and I loathe him.

[Donomni]

I didn't think the voice acting was bad, especially since the whole "HAHAHAHAHA" was meant to be forced.

It's actually very easy to max 3 characters if you spend your time farming for the monster arena, at least in the way it won't bore you 12 ways to Sunday.

You will have to level Wakka in the game for parts of the main story later on, due to fighting underwater bosses, and a couple bonus bosses, too.

But yeah, blearrrgh Blitzball. It'd be a better game if teams didn't constantly show up higher level than my team.

Also, NEVER go after unlocking Onion Knight, Lulu's +1 doll. The damn thing requires you to dodge an assload of lightning bolts. In a row.

[Dauntasa]

200 Lightning bolts, in fact. And you can't screw up even once. Or get hit by lightning between getting 200 and getting the doll. And if you push X too often then the anti-mash kicks in and you get hit automatically.

[Amake]

It's quite easy if you stand in one spot where you get blown against a wall and never have to move, and take breaks every 10 dodges. Well, I counted wrong and got to 192 and gave up but whatever.

It turns out everyone has one minigame to unlock the ultimate weapons that they can't beat. I could never get Khimari's myself. Of course you can synth better weapons that don't give you a damage penalty when your HP drops and whatnot, but the quote-unquote ultimate weapons have a little known side effect: Powering them up lets various Aeons break the damage limit. I don't recall which is which except that I couldn't get Ixion above 9999 damage without Khimari's lance of Longinus thingy.

[Dauntasa]

Bahamut, the Magus Sisters and Anima start out able to break the limit, I think. Valefor needs Yuna's weapon. Yojimbo needs Auron(although Zanmato kills anything in one hit without damage numbers anyway). Shiva needs Lulu. And I think Ifrit needs Wakka, although I'm not sure about that one. And Ixion needs Kimahri.

[Amake]

Oh, it's definitely Wakka. Thanks for clearing that up. Tidus and Rikku are the ones without Aeon links. . .innteresting.

Random factoid: Stealing has a close to 100% success rate on the first attempt, and it's halved after each successful attempt. You can steal infinite items from an enemy if you're patient. (But it's not like they ever have anything you really need.)

[Dauntasa]

Noncon, about Rikku: When you get her again, she seems awful. She isn't leveled, she has crap damage, and she doesn't have any spells or anything. But she's really, really useful and levels up to the party average really fast. Use her. And her Overdrive is probably the best in the game. Or at least the most versatile. Plus, she can steal and throw grenades at people, and that's always good.

[EVILNess]

I always use everyone cause it takes a few extra seconds to switch out a character and guard or attack or something and there are fights where you are shoehorned with specific characters. All the underwater battles for instance: You will always have Tidus, Rikku, and Wakka. No one else can swim apparently. Khimari has his own solo fight (Which you can learn all of his overdrives from if you just spam lancet), and not to mention sometimes you just have to switch out a character who is low on HP.

[TARDIS]

I wish I could help, but due to crappy emulation (the game's slow as hell, and sound's rather messed up too) I'm very close to the start. only got past the first actual battle!

[CelesJessa]

Goddammit why can't I move the cameraaaaaaaaa?!
Hello I'm every Final Fantasy game before 11/12. I believe we've met?


Regarding the Al-Bhed language: Language doesn't work like that... *shakes head*
I'm guessing they know that. Doing it realistically would make the Al-Bhed primers impossible.

Serious Question: Is Rikku voiced by the same lady who voices Emily Elizabeth in the Clifford the Big Red Dog cartoon?
If Emily is voiced by Tara Strong, then yes. Also she is the voice for every-fucking-body ever. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tara_Strong)

[Yumil]

Rikku is absolutely necessary to beat the game if you run from every nonforced battle(man I loved getting flee as early as it gave it to you). Rikku's overdrive is one of the most easily accessible things to break the game:o.

I never would of beat a few bosses without Sunburst and then later Trio of 9999. Sure, you have to go out of your way to do a few minigames to get the items to mix.

[Dauntasa]

Ah, Trio of 9999. I love that one. In my first playthrough I got 30 Wings of Discovery or whatever they're called from that Chocobo race. I'd been stuck on Flux(that cheap bastard) for like a month. Got the Wings, mixed trio of 9999 and took him out in under a minute.

[TARDIS]

yeah, mix is broken. Using it in FF5 is how I know.

[Kim]

Hello I'm every Final Fantasy game before 11/12. I believe we've met?

I'm used to my fancy jRPGs with my movable cameras. Is that really so wrong?

I'm guessing they know that. Doing it realistically would make the Al-Bhed primers impossible.

Probably!

[Ryong]

I never used Kimahri. At all. My party was Tidus, Yuna and Auron, simply because I had their ultimate weapons powered with ease. Although finishing a race in negative time for Tidus was a bit completely silly. The problematic part for the optional bosses is that, even if you get everything in the sphere grid, there's a lot that you can't possibly kill, so what do you do? You farm some hard-to-get spheres to erase every sphere in the sphere grid that isn't the best (+4 to a stat, don't remember how much HP/MP is the best ) and substitute them for other hard-to-get spheres that are the best. It takes a LONG time but you'll end up with maxed everything but MP.

Edit: Also, Bahamut is totally cool. He's like a badass bodyguard dragon or something. 'Course, for pretty much anything in the late game you'll just use the Magus Sisters. 15 hits of 99999 and all that.

[Nique]

Oh the graphics/ voice acting:

Yeah I mean this game is now nearly a decade old. Games just don't age well unless you know going in that you're dealing with sprites and even then most people can only tolerate SNES era graphics. That said I think in this context that FFX is still a pretty and pretty amazing game. I lol'd plenty at the voice acting but by the end it somehow seems alright and the story more than makes up for it.

Blitzball is super fun. I started a file just to play Blitzball. You can even recrute Blitzball players of all races throughout the world into your team eventually. You also basically play Blitzball via any save point whenever you want. Blitzball Blitzball Blitzball.

[TARDIS]

so, any advice on my emulation problem?

[Krylo]

so, any advice on my emulation problem?

Not (http://www.amazon.com/PlayStation-2-Console-Black/dp/B000TLU67W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1262386721&sr=8-1) much (http://www.amazon.com/Final-Fantasy-X-Playstation-2/dp/B00005TNI6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1262386762&sr=1-1).

[CelesJessa]

I'm used to my fancy jRPGs with my movable cameras. Is that really so wrong?

Nope, but it shouldn't really be that surprising. :3 Maybe I just don't play enough fancy jRPGs with movable camera that it's not standard issue to me. XD

[Nique]

Running PS2 emulators on anything other than a supercomputer is a fools dream. Esspecially with a game like FFX. I don't know enough to say it's impossible but I ran a perfect PS2 emulator install, started it up and tried to play straight off the FFX disc and got nowhere. Also Krylo is right. Spend 60 bucks and find a sale somewheres. I just grabbed a bunch of great PS2 titles for $5 a pop.

[TARDIS]

I don't have teh console so that's not an option.

[Kim]

Nope, but it shouldn't really be that surprising. :3 Maybe I just don't play enough fancy jRPGs with movable camera that it's not standard issue to me. XD

I wasn't so much surprised so much as frustrated. All these corners and turns that I can't get good views of and it makes me feel like there is a treasure chest hiding there. I honestly can't remember the last time I played a 3D jRPG without a movable camera.

[Nique]

I don't have teh console so that's not an option.

Mow some lawns? There's just not a lot of reason to emulate PS2 games since you'd basically spend more money and/or an equivilant amount of value in the form of time spent and still end up with an inferior product, than if you would fork-up $100 for a used PS2 and like 4 Games. Also emulation is bad and we don't talk about it.

I wasn't so much surprised so much as frustrated. All these corners and turns that I can't get good views of and it makes me feel like there is a treasure chest hiding there. I honestly can't remember the last time I played a 3D jRPG without a movable camera.

Oh yeah that's gonna drive you nuts. There is the constant lingering paranoia that behind every unseen corner is a wonderful treasure that you have to get NOW or it won't be there later! I can't decide if finding nothing or finding '5 Gil' is worse.

[Yumil]

Running PS2 emulators on anything other than a supercomputer is a fools dream. Esspecially with a game like FFX. I don't know enough to say it's impossible but I ran a perfect PS2 emulator install, started it up and tried to play straight off the FFX disc and got nowhere. Also Krylo is right. Spend 60 bucks and find a sale somewheres. I just grabbed a bunch of great PS2 titles for $5 a pop.

It's actually pretty good now for slightly obsolete computers(stuff thats a few years old). Heck, the leading emu was built specifically for FFX, as thats what they were aiming to emulate. I've played FFXII on it(since my ps2 died) and my computer isn't a total behemoth(Q6600, 4 gigs of ram, 2x9600gt's sli'd... but Ive run it outside of using SLI and for a while was only at 2 gigs of ram). If your computer is ancient, or just doesnt have dual core or an ok gfx card, then dont try to emulate on your computer...go buy a ps2, cuz it's cheaper than upgrading your computer to play it.

That said, the emu still has problems(Gitaroo Man is slow and it's my favorite game in my library...so I ended up buying a ps2 again) and I still suggest buying a ps2. They are hella cheap.

[Ryong]

You crazy people. Gauntlet Legends on the Nintendo 64 is still impossible to emulate. And, about the camera: Don't worry, there aren't many missables and the ones that are, aren't important. Unless on the International Version...

[Magus]

Much like FFXIII, FFX was a straight line. Not just the dungeons, if FFXIII has some other thing that's not a straight line. The entirety of FFX is a straight line, with an extremely basic rock-paper-scissors combat apparatus, summons which cause 9999999999 damage so it's pretty hard to lose, and if you grind even a little you can complete the game with little trouble. I only died twice in FFX, the first time when you first fight Sin and the second time when you fight Seymour on that Ronso mountain thingy. Other than that it was easy for the main quest, there's really no difficulty entailed in it whatever.

Also the ultimate weapons are somewhat pointless because 1. ultimate is entirely subjective, since I never bothered to get most of them and was still Doublecasting Ultima for 1 MP with Yuna and Luna and killing monsters instantly with Auron's petrifying sword thingy, when I wasn't having Tidus attack five times in a row through the use of haste and slow and cheer, etc. FFX is broken and overkill is easy, the game is easy, all the extra stuff seemed superfluous for some reason, possibly due to the game being a straight line until it killed my will to care about anything other than what is next in progression to beat the game. In the absence of non-linearity for a great length of time I'm not about to start caring suddenly when it shows up again.

*SPOILERS*Here I complain some more on this page. (http://baramos.bravehost.com/ffxsucks.html)*SPOILERS*

[TARDIS]

Much like FFXIII, FFX was a straight line. Not just the dungeons, if FFXIII has some other thing that's not a straight line. The entirety of FFX is a straight line, with an extremely basic rock-paper-scissors combat apparatus, summons which cause 9999999999 damage so it's pretty hard to lose, and if you grind even a little you can complete the game with little trouble. I only died twice in FFX, the first time when you first fight Sin and the second time when you fight Seymour on that Ronso mountain thingy. Other than that it was easy for the main quest, there's really no difficulty entailed in it whatever.

Also the ultimate weapons are somewhat pointless because 1. ultimate is entirely subjective, since I never bothered to get most of them and was still Doublecasting Ultima for 1 MP with Yuna and Luna and killing monsters instantly with Auron's petrifying sword thingy, when I wasn't having Tidus attack five times in a row through the use of haste and slow and cheer, etc. FFX is broken and overkill is easy, the game is easy, all the extra stuff seemed superfluous for some reason, possibly due to the game being a straight line until it killed my will to care about anything other than what is next in progression to beat the game. In the absence of non-linearity for a great length of time I'm not about to start caring suddenly when it shows up again.

*SPOILERS*Here I complain some more on this page. (http://baramos.bravehost.com/ffxsucks.html)*SPOILERS*

can anything be more broken than the multiple hit limits in FF7 and 8? Other than any combo in 5 or 6 that requires Quick and a powerful attack (you can only summon Bahamut once per battle in 6 and have Ultima. 5 lacks Ultima but you can summon Bahamut repeatedly.)

[Magus]

It takes a long time to get that stuff working in those games due to the high amounts of grinding, and personally I never did most of it the first couple of times through. In FFV it takes a lot of work to get a summoner with doublecast so you can doublecast Bahamut. Also in FFV Advance they added in an extra dungeon that even with fully broken characters was a challenge, but that wasn't in the original so I suppose it doesn't count.

In FFVI you have to know how to get Raiden to get Quick, and it takes a long time to get Quick for a character due to the learning rate, and so on and so forth.

FFX just sort of puts everything out there, and Tidus' abilities for one were very easy to abuse. In any case I probably have a double-standard about something being "broken" because there were so many other aspects of the game I disliked at the time. Almost every game can be broken at some point or other but FFX just sort of broke itself with the summoning system, whereas with other games the player has to exploit the game design.

EDIT: Also you won't be hearin' me defending FF7 and 8, though I don't remember the multiple hits in FF7.

[Mirai Gen]

Also didn't FFX have this dungeon where like every random encounter in it was all a boss fight? Yeah that's pretty much there for the obsessives.

Also also the superweapons for everyone are stupid tedious/hard. I didn't even bother.

I wasn't so much surprised so much as frustrated. All these corners and turns that I can't get good views of and it makes me feel like there is a treasure chest hiding there. I honestly can't remember the last time I played a 3D jRPG without a movable camera.

This and also I think everything in FFX - literally everything - has been rendered. I remember a cutscene where the camera's fixed and then, for some reason, it changes angle to point at the exact other side of the room, and it's all rendered. There's absolutely no reason not to include a free-look or first-person look button. It honestly surprised me to when my then-roommate and I split the game up.

Having said thus, I dunno, it was alright. For some reason we had a huge problem on the second Seymore fight. Grinded a bit, unleashed a fuckton of summons, and he died.

[Dauntasa]

EDIT: Also you won't be hearin' me defending FF7 and 8, though I don't remember the multiple hits in FF7.

That'd be your Omnislash and your Knights of the Round. And a couple others as well, but those two are the worst. As for FFX, not a lot of multi-hit attacks, but the damage cap is 99999 so it balances out. You kinda need the extra damage though, especially if you have the International version and plan on fighting Penance. Penance is a nasty son of a bitch. Not too many Story bosses to watch out for, though. I had trouble with that sinspawn in Operation Mi'hen my first time through, but beat him no problem the second time. Evrae got me a few times as well, but that was because I was underleveled. I had to use Trio of 9999 to beat Flux first time through, but I was, again, pathetically underleveled. Flux is tricky even if you're at a decent level, though. Yunalesca(note: Noncon, if you don't want a big chunk of story spoiled, don't highlight that) was awful, final form had me stuck for about a week. Other than those, though, the story bosses were basically pushovers until the second last boss, who was pretty hard.

[Yumil]

Meh, I don't know why people think the summons were overpowered. The only thing I ever used them for where meat shields, I considered their damage a bonus.

Heck, both my run from everything play through and the one where I pwned all the optional bosses, that was their only use to me. Oh no, the boss is going to one hit me...summon...summon dies, I continue to fight.

[EVILNess]

For some strange reason every time I fought Seymour was this tedious uphill battle that made me gnash my teeth, especially when he goes all one winged angel and jumped you on the side of a freaking mountain.

[Ryong]

Meh, I don't know why people think the summons were overpowered. The only thing I ever used them for where meat shields, I considered their damage a bonus.

Heck, both my run from everything play through and the one where I pwned all the optional bosses, that was their only use to me. Oh no, the boss is going to one hit me...summon...summon dies, I continue to fight.

Magus Sisters, 15x99999. Pretty kickass, man. And FFX wasn't hard, at least not the normal version. Don't know what you guys are talking about getting your asses kicked. The only thing that ever gave me trouble before the monster arena was the chocobo race, because, COME ON.

[TARDIS]

It takes a long time to get that stuff working in those games due to the high amounts of grinding, and personally I never did most of it the first couple of times through. In FFV it takes a lot of work to get a summoner with doublecast so you can doublecast Bahamut. Also in FFV Advance they added in an extra dungeon that even with fully broken characters was a challenge, but that wasn't in the original so I suppose it doesn't count.

In FFVI you have to know how to get Raiden to get Quick, and it takes a long time to get Quick for a character due to the learning rate, and so on and so forth.

FFX just sort of puts everything out there, and Tidus' abilities for one were very easy to abuse. In any case I probably have a double-standard about something being "broken" because there were so many other aspects of the game I disliked at the time. Almost every game can be broken at some point or other but FFX just sort of broke itself with the summoning system, whereas with other games the player has to exploit the game design.

EDIT: Also you won't be hearin' me defending FF7 and 8, though I don't remember the multiple hits in FF7.

I was referring to FF7's ultimate summon for that game. I don't really like it THAT much myself.
8 has a surprising amoutn of potential 9999 breaking limits, AND EVNE THE OCCASIONAL SINGLE ATTACK BREAKS THAT DAMAGE LIMIT1

Also, about quick in FF6? every enemy in the desert below Maranda gives 5 or 10 AP. That's easy QUick, easy Ultiam, easy....well, every spell.

[Odjn]

That'd be your Omnislash and your Knights of the Round. And a couple others as well, but those two are the worst.

Actually the single toughest attack when you twink is Barret's Ungermax, which can do 18 hits of 9999.

He can also use the Death Penalty glitch to haxkill anyone in one shot, so Barret is DA BEST.

But yeah Magus Sisters and THE SPOILER AEON are hax enough. Spoiler is totally easier to use if you aren't a twiiiiink.

[Dauntasa]

I'm pretty sure Ungermax can't do max damage on every hit. If it could, then the Best attack would, I think, be Highwind, which has like 20 attacks.

[synkr0nized]

I am sad. This LP (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=348830) never finished, and now the photobucket account hosting the pictures appears to be down and the author banned... I thought it was a good read for this game.

[Yumil]

As for magus sisters, they are meant to be hax seeing as though they were the last optional summon. That being said they were nearly impossible to get on a low level run and useless on one you do all the optional bosses on. Abusing quick hit means your characters do far more damage between monster turns, which relegated all summons to meat shield mode.

The game can be surprisingly hard if you are under leveled. Heck, the first final boss is impossible if you don't use any spheres and don't modify weapons or grab aurons ultimate.

[Dauntasa]

As for magus sisters, they are meant to be hax seeing as though they were the last optional summon. That being said they were nearly impossible to get on a low level run and useless on one you do all the optional bosses on. Abusing quick hit means your characters do far more damage between monster turns, which relegated all summons to meat shield mode.

Not quite all summons. Yojimbo still has the most powerful attack in the game, Zanmato, which will kill anything in a single hit without damage numbers. And nothing's immune to it, not even Penance. It's both extremely expensive and extremely cheap.


The game can be surprisingly hard if you are under leveled. Heck, the first final boss is impossible if you don't use any spheres and don't modify weapons or grab aurons ultimate.

And it's actually pretty easy to end up underleveled because of the way the Sphere Grid works. If you run out of a particular type of Sphere, and end up on a Node in the Grid that requires it, it's tempting to just skip it and keep going. But you really, really shouldn't, especially if it's an Ability. So you can end up in a situation where you've level grinded for hours and have characters who are far more powerful than seems necessary, but they've all got, say, awful Magic Resistance becuase you ran out of the relevant Sphere and chose to press ahead anyway. This means that you'll smash your way through a chunk of the game easily, then run into a Magic Using Boss who wipes out your whole party with a couple of spells.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

How in the hell do you run out of spheres?? You get like 2-3 of each every battle, you can almost never drop below 90 of each type.

[Dauntasa]

Well, If you try to level up every character then you'll run out of them surprisingly fast. There usually won't be an enemy for every kind of Sphere in one area. If you're keeping 7people at the same level then you will eventually run out of a particular Sphere(probably Ability).

[Krylo]

How in the hell do you run out of spheres?? You get like 2-3 of each every battle, you can almost never drop below 90 of each type.

From the beginning of the game through to the thunder plains the only enemies that drop ability spheres are the fish in the VERY beginning at random, and the one rarest (and toughest so over kills are pretty rare) enemy on the Mi'hen highroad. In the thunder plains you get another chance to get a few from larva, which are the second rarest enemy THERE, and then in Macalania woods there's a bunch of enemies that drop ability spheres.

However, that means you move through Besaid, Kilika, Luca, The Highroad, Operation Mi'hen, Djose Temple, the Moonflow and Guadosalam while suffering from Ability Sphere Starvation, unless you ground them like a motherfucker in the beginning or on the highroad (where I didn't grind at all in my latest play through and didn't see even ONE drop, I only even know they are there because I checked a guide on where to get them when my entire party was unable to level anymore after operation Mi'hen).

Also, considering the fact that they only appear in certain locations and from certain enemies until you can acquire distillers (which isn't until after you acquire the Airship, and the distillers are, thus, useless), customizing equipment/teaching Aeons abilities that use the spheres can cause you to run out and be unable to restock as quickly as you would like.

[Amake]

Maybe it's different in the international version, but I could distill spheres of all flavors with most characters pretty early on.

[Krylo]

It is.

In the original you have to buy distillers from Rin, and he doesn't stock them until you meet him on the airship, in the international you can pick up a character ability to do it, if I remember right.

[Kim]

HRNNNNNNGH nice to know that. Here's hoping the game will let me jump back in the pond to grab ability spheres before I leave Besaid but probably not!

I'm almost out of ability spheres already. :/

Yes, I've been grinding. Boss fight on the boat killed me in the underwater part because I didn't have sensor on me and I was trying to be a stingy son of a bitch which didn't really work out to well.

[Krylo]

Hanging out with Rikku and the pond with Wakka are the same fish. But yeah, no you can't hop back in.

[Kim]

Hanging out with Rikku and the pond with Wakka are the same fish. But yeah, no you can't hop back in.

I blame Yuna and all her NulElec/NulBlaze/NulAbilitySpheres abilities.

I want to say they sound extremely useless and like something I'd never use, but I know that the moment I say that someone will come in with how they're the best abilities in the game if you use them in such and such way or something...

[Krylo]

Ehhh... They're pretty useful but only very situationally, so.

[Dauntasa]

You mostly get Ability Spheres from Bosses until you get the Airship. If you're using Lulu and Yuna, they will eat Ability Spheres like candy because their magic is found in groups of 4 and 6, and every one needs an ability sphere. Tidus and Wakka use up quite a few as well, with all their different attacks. Auron and Rikku only use up a couple, because Auron's only got his various Breaks and I can only remember Rikku having like 5 abilities in her whole path. Kimahri sucks and is only useful for getting Ultima and then using a Black Magic Sphere to teach it to Lulu or Yuna. So, depending on your main party, you might never run into supply problems or you might treat every Ability Sphere like a Gift From God.

I blame Yuna and all her NulElec/NulBlaze/NulAbilitySpheres abilities.

I want to say they sound extremely useless and like something I'd never use, but I know that the moment I say that someone will come in with how they're the best abilities in the game if you use them in such and such way or something...

Nope, they're pretty useless. I mean, they're good in those two boss fights with (Big 'Ol Spoilers)Seymour where he has a predictable pattern of Elemental spells, but there's another Spell you get later called NulAll(or maybe it's from an item, I forget. But it's still pretty easy to get if you need it), and that basically makes the other Nuls totally useless.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Maybe it's different in the international version.


It must be then, because I have the PAL version and the only time ability spheres are rare is pre-Kilika. As soon as you get there they start dropping by the barrel full.


As for the Nuls, yeah they're mostly only massively useful on certain boss battles later on, like that Gel thing in Macalania and Seymour of course, though Rikkus Ultra Nulall is more useful seeing as it comes with a load of extra buffs as well. Still I found myself using the originals even right up to the end of the game and there's probably a few more powerful non-boss enemies that if you're under-levelled against you might find them useful for, like Dark Flans.

Oh and while I remember Non; when you first encounter a Basilisk, make sure you lancet it with Kimahri to learn his most useful overdrive. Even if everyone else, including you, finds Kimahri shit, that skill will be enough to redeem him. Particularly when you later use it against a couple of specific Guado bodyguards later on who like to auto-heal every time you try and hit them and won't fucking die. It's also great as a giant "Fuck You" to any other enemies you can't be arsed to fight, because it's second only to Zanmato in terms of how quickly it will kill everything in one hit.

[Yumil]

Not quite all summons. Yojimbo still has the most powerful attack in the game, Zanmato, which will kill anything in a single hit without damage numbers. And nothing's immune to it, not even Penance. It's both extremely expensive and extremely cheap.

Ok, Yojimbo, when you know how to exploit his math is amazing. However, without knowing how to handle the guy he's worthless other than randomly doing zanmato. At the time I played both playthroughs I knew nothing of the calculations>.< I do now and if I were to play again Id exploit him like hell.

EDIT: +in the NA version of the game...even at max compatability, vs a hard boss with full overdrive, youd have to pay at least 65536 gil to get a 2% chance to do zanmato. Hell even at the max payment(536870912 gil) means a 17% chance. EU version is far easier to assure zanmato(which is what Id play if I played it again)...and he would never use zanmato as a free attack vs anything other than fodder. He was worthless overall in the NA version.

[Magus]

Also, about quick in FF6? every enemy in the desert below Maranda gives 5 or 10 AP. That's easy QUick, easy Ultiam, easy....well, every spell.

True but those sand worms basically butcher your characters if you don't have a nullifying piece of equipment on, and because I never bothered with the Coliseum much I only had like, three Thunder Shields so it took me more time to get Quick on all the characters. Plus if you don't know how to get Raiden then technically you aren't going to learn Quick, but FF6 had FAQS even back in the day so there's not a lot of in-game obstacles to finding the means to overpower your characters...

Anyway, FF6 was still harder than FF10, I've died many more times in FF6 than in FF10, mainly because if you don't have the right equipment on to fight say one of the dragons you'll probably die early on in the World of Ruin. But yeah it's not like FF6 is really hard, it's just that FF10 seemed so easy.

[TARDIS]

have you tried confuse or instant death on the slagworms? both statuses work.

Also, somewhat interestingly, the sprite is a little messed up when you're trying to slow the slagworm. Or it is in the GBA version at least.

[Kim]

Blitzball... HRNNNNNNGH

It's very boring and unless you take your eyes completely off the rest of the screen and look only at the radar, the camera flipping about like it's possessed makes manual control impossible. I also don't like that there seems to be this delay between when I press square and when the options come up because that usually results in me being surrounded.

Just lost once, gonna try again.

[Eltargrim]

If you use manual control in conjunction with the radar it works pretty well. And please please please tell me you're using the Jecht shot.

[Kim]

If you use manual control in conjunction with the radar it works pretty well. And please please please tell me you're using the Jecht shot.

I used it the one time I could, since it didn't let me change over until Halftime and used up so much health that it didn't have time to regenerate before they made me bring Wakka out.

I won this time though so yay.

[Dauntasa]

I used it the one time I could, since it didn't let me change over until Halftime and used up so much health that it didn't have time to regenerate before they made me bring Wakka out.

I won this time though so yay.

You're at the tournament in Luca? The match against the Goers is pretty hard, but I kept doing it until I won because everyone looks so disappointed otherwise. Funnily enough, in later optional Blitzball the Goers are absolutely the worst team and the Al Bhed Psyches are stupidly powerful.

[Odjn]

I'm pretty sure Ungermax can't do max damage on every hit. If it could, then the Best attack would, I think, be Highwind, which has like 20 attacks.

Ungarmax can- Barrett's attack power can actually overflow and kill anything in one shot if you bother to stick enough mastered materia in his weapon. The reason it's the best is it's animation is short and it hits a lot. Highwind takes foreeeeeeever because it has a longer animation while you can use like thirty ungarmaxes for each one Highwind.

[Ravashak]

Underwater Breathing Materia, since that one didn't get mastered iirc? (and thus could stack AP indefinately). Really been ages since i played that game.

About X, I liked the Null spells, sure they're situational, but in those situations, they do their job quite decently.

[Kim]

So the scene with Tidus and Auron where Tidus finds out Sin is Jecht just happened. Tidus doesn't really come off as an annoying, whiny prick nearly as much as I thought he would, but his voice acting just completely ruined the scene for me. It shatters the experience like a hammer to a mirror.

[EVILNess]

So the scene with Tidus and Auron where Tidus finds out Sin is Jecht just happened. Tidus doesn't really come off as an annoying, whiny prick nearly as much as I thought he would, but his voice acting just completely ruined the scene for me. It shatters the experience like a hammer to a mirror.

You have to give the game like 3 points of age leeway, video game voice acting was terrible back then, and at the time FF10 was like the epitome of good voice acting in video games.

Just look at it as a testament to how far we have come.

[greed]

Wut? Baldur's Gate 2 came out a year or two before it. Also Metal Gear Solid was out long before it and MGS2 was the same year. So yeah it wasn't terrible by the standards of the day, but it's VA was still definitely mediocre.

[EVILNess]

Wut? Baldur's Gate 2 came out a year or two before it. Also Metal Gear Solid was out long before it and MGS2 was the same year. So yeah it wasn't terrible by the standards of the day, but it's VA was still definitely mediocre.

I meant more for par with jRPGs. Still you have a point.

[Kim]

Yeah, I get that there's a totally legit reason for the voice acting and whatnot, but I'm having a bit of a problem getting past that. Bad graphics, bad character animations, and all those? I can ignore them usually. Bad voice acting? Bugs the hell out of me, and jerks me out of the experience like I'm on the end of a bungee cord.

[Mirai Gen]

Voice acting doesn't really get excused for sucking just cause it's old.

[Nightshine]

Voice acting doesn't really get excused for sucking just cause it's old.

This. Good voice acting in games is pretty rare actually.

[Yumil]

You have to remember that this was the first game with facial animations of this level. Add to it was the first time a game company had to fit english localization onto something completely lip synced to japanese dialog. The sheer amount of work the localization team had to do was a first of it's time. I blame that for a lot of the subpar voice acting and script.

The animation at the time was amazing since it was the first time they animated the faces in a way other than changing textures.

[Dauntasa]

You have to remember that this was the first game with facial animations of this level. Add to it was the first time a game company had to fit english localization onto something completely lip synced to japanese dialog. The sheer amount of work the localization team had to do was a first of it's time. I blame that for a lot of the subpar voice acting and script.

The animation at the time was amazing since it was the first time they animated the faces in a way other than changing textures.

That's also the reason why they all say "Okay" like five times faster than they should.

[Mirai Gen]

This. Good voice acting in games is pretty rare actually.

Nah it isn't, it's just that games originating in Japan end up half-assing translation frequently for reasons Yumil mentioned as well as simple laziness. Western RPGs, shooters, action games, etc don't have that problem, whereas pre-MGS Konami and jRPGs do.

I do have to wonder if voice acting in Japan for games like Fallout 3 and Dragon Age is all awkward and screwed up...

[Magus]

What's funny is they probably just leave the voice-acting the same and put in Japanese subtitles. I wish this is what Squarenix would do or at least provide an option for but they refuse to do so despite it 1. being cheaper and 2. probably being better quality. Although FFXII had pretty nice voice acting all told.

[Jagos]

200 Lightning bolts, in fact. And you can't screw up even once. Or get hit by lightning between getting 200 and getting the doll. And if you push X too often then the anti-mash kicks in and you get hit automatically.

Pause, unpause, wait for flash, X. Rinse and repeat X200. :)

Makes it a helluva lot faster and there's one particular spot where the lightning can actually come down faster if you decide NOT to use the pause button. I believe it was around a pole or pond?

[bluestarultor]

I just have to say this about Kimahri: if you're expecting him to be awesome at any one thing, you're using him wrong. Kimahri has the benefit of a buttload of strength to start with, so his beginning primary role should be as an attacker. Use him anytime you'd use Auron, because both generally have Piercing weaponry. Once you get Auron, pull them both out at the same time and you'll make quick work of foes. Also, Kimahri can easily get into Lulu's area, so have him dive into her first-level spells as a backup caster. You can then work him through Wakka for some accuracy and additional strength, plus status stuff, and have him dip directly into her third-level spells.

Kimahri is a generalist character. He's like the party bard, if you will. He's able to support your every effort and can help you do it better depending on where you build him.

Frankly, I use him all the time. He's still a pretty heavy hitter physically, and his Ronso Rages are pretty useful and actually not at all a pain in the ass to get like Blue Magic usually is.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

The thing with Khimari though is that his Overdrive designate him as a Blue Mage who has only access to his attacks when in overdrive and that is crazy stupid. He has no other good ability other then Lancet. Quistis was in the same boat, but thanks to the way Limit's worked in FF8, you could exploit that easily so she could use her Blue Magic whenever.

It can be argued that Rikku is the same with her mix, but I always pegged her as a thief first and chemist second and she could use steal whenever.

[Dauntasa]

Rikku would be like that with her Mix, but Mix is so useful that's totally offset. She's also got Use, which lets her use Grenades and Al Bhed Potions and some other neat items. Plus, Steal is good, and she also gets Bribe and Copycat, both of which are also really good. Kimahri, well, Scan is kinda useful, I guess. If you don't want to waste a slot on a weapon for sensor. Other than that, he sucks. Really, you've already got 6 characters, all of whom are good for something. And you can switch them out in battle easily; it doesn't even waste a turn. So you really don't need a Jack of All Trades when you already have a bunch of Masters.

[Mirai Gen]

Pause, unpause, wait for flash, X. Rinse and repeat X200. :)
The "repeat times two hundred" is the part I take issue with.

[Mondt]

People who have done it say its really not all that bad.

One of my friends did it and says this to me whenever I bring it up and complain.

[Melfice]

People who have done it say its really not all that bad.

One of my friends did it and says this to me whenever I bring it up and complain.

Your friend is a masochist.
Regardless of the annoyance of 200 times dodging lightning bolts, it starts being frustrating when you're at 199 and THEN you get hit.

I just said "Fuck this, I'll create a similar weapon from scratch eventually."

[Jagos]

The "repeat times two hundred" is the part I take issue with.

It's only an hour of redundancy. Nothing too hardcore.

*has collected ALL of the ultimate weapons*

Blitzball

Biggest promotion of false advertisement ever.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

It's only an hour of redundancy. Nothing too hardcore.

Actually I think it's only about 40 minutes, assuming you're not pausing all the time. Least that's what I remember. And it's not hard, just long and tedious and annoying IF you fuck up a good ways into it. Personally I did it on my first attempt without any problems. Kimahris fucking butterfly catching bit was the REAL pain in the arse moment of the Celestials. I had all the others collected without issue, Tidus' first, then Rikkus (should have really gotten a No Encounters weapon first though), then Auron, Wakka, Yuna (that took a while), Lulu, but when it came to Kims it was near impossible for the longest time.

Got there in the end, but it wasn't really worth it. The others were pretty awesome though.

[Kim]

So with the dodge lightning thing does that start as soon as I enter the thunder plains or do I have to talk to somebody first?

[Dauntasa]

Starts as soon as you get that "Hey look you can dodge lightning" tutorial thing, but you have to talk to this guy after you get 200 dodges to get the weapon.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Yeah it's just whenever your first dodge happens to be. So long as you get 200 consecutive at any point you'll be able to unlock everything. Once you have, head to the travel agency half way through the area and speak to the guy behind the counter, though you'll still need the celestial mirror to get the final prize.

[Dauntasa]

Yeah, you won't get Lulu's weapon if you don't have the mirror, but you can come back and get it after you get the mirror. If you're just getting to the Thunder Plains for the first time, you won't be getting the mirror for a while yet, so don't worry about the dodging until later.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I dunno about that. I found those few extra health spheres and all the other stuff you get was quite nice for the first 100 bolts you dodge when you first arrive there, and if you've done 100 you might as well do all 200 while you're at it.

[Jagos]

So the scene with Tidus and Auron where Tidus finds out Sin is Jecht just happened. Tidus doesn't really come off as an annoying, whiny prick nearly as much as I thought he would, but his voice acting just completely ruined the scene for me. It shatters the experience like a hammer to a mirror.

He got worse near the end.

Not like chaos from X1 bad, but near the end, I wanted to strangle him about his Damn story.

[Kim]

I accidentally pressed X too soon, and then 1.5 seconds later lightning and I couldn't fucking dodge so I fucked it up at 108. I think I'm gonna roll with FUCK THIS SHIT, at least for now.

[Dauntasa]

I accidentally pressed X too soon, and then 1.5 seconds later lightning and I couldn't fucking dodge so I fucked it up at 108. I think I'm gonna roll with FUCK THIS SHIT, at least for now.

You should go pick up the consolation prizes from that guy at the Travel Agency, and then, yeah, fuck that shit. You can't even get the weapon for a long time anyway.

[Kim]

You should go pick up the consolation prizes from that guy at the Travel Agency, and then, yeah, fuck that shit. You can't even get the weapon for a long time anyway.

Is it the one you go when Riku's scared, because I didn't see anyone who gave me shit.

[Dauntasa]

I'm pretty sure that there's a dude in there somewhere who'll give you something. Just talk to everyone. It might be that it didn't register before because you didn't have enough dodges for a prize.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I think the first time you go there it doesn't register, you need to leave the area with the entrance to the agency then return, go inside, and speak to the guy behind the counter. Then a chest will appear outside. Least I think that's how it works, if not then there's a book inside the agency on a table somewhere which keeps track of your dodges.

[Mirai Gen]

ARGH I FUCKED UP AT 108 FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK THIS SHIT
I don't think it's going very well.

[Kim]

Indeed. I have given up entirely on the thought of collecting everything in this game. A large part of the reason is just holy fuck this game is too easy already, though I will give the game the benefit of the doubt and assume the first fight against Seymour Asshat is supposed to be easy as fuck.

I'm liking this game a lot more than I expected. Linearity isn't really a problem, and I've experienced that in other games that I've liked. It's a pretty good game, and one of the better FF games. I still think FFXII is the better game, for a myriad of reasons, including the really stupid character designs and bad voice acting in FFX. It may be unavoidable, but it really kills what could have otherwise been great scenes. Music is probably the best the series has ever seen though.

[Dauntasa]

The only regular story fights I had real trouble with were Evrae, Seymour No. 3 and 4, Yunalesca and the second last boss.

[Kim]

Evrae

Yeah, this one took me two tries in total to beat, though I mostly blame this on not having Yuna in my party.

Also, Tidus sounds like he's doing a spot on Limozeen impression when he yells. "AAAAaaaaaAAAAAaaaaaAAA!"

[katiuska]

I got slaughtered my first time against Braska's Final Aeon because he's fast and would get like 4 charges in the time it would take me to get one turn. So I had to go though the whole sphere-collecting bullshit all over again (seriously, what was with that?), but then I beat him with help from the Magus Sisters and all was good.

(Also, saying goodbye to all your summons was neat and all, but I kind of wish the game ended when it ended. Not as pointless as the sphere thing, but it could have stood to be a lot shorter.)

[Kim]

One thing I think the game would have benefited from is more time in Zanarkand at the beginning. We don't really get a clear idea of Tidus' life in Zanarkand, so we can't really feel for him losing it. Get some running around and hanging out with friends for a little while before everything goes to shit, like in Kingdom Hearts 2, and then his plight would seem a lot worse, and I, for one, would be more sympathetic to how he feels.

[Dauntasa]

Yeah, this one took me two tries in total to beat, though I mostly blame this on not having Yuna in my party.

Also, Tidus sounds like he's doing a spot on Limozeen impression when he yells. "AAAAaaaaaAAAAAaaaaaAAA!"

On my first playthrough I was stuck on Evrae for the better part of a month. But my first playthrough was a fucking disaster, so that's really not surprising. I've only lost to him a couple of times since then.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

One thing I think the game would have benefited from is more time in Zanarkand at the beginning. We don't really get a clear idea of Tidus' life in Zanarkand, so we can't really feel for him losing it. Get some running around and hanging out with friends for a little while before everything goes to shit, like in Kingdom Hearts 2, and then his plight would seem a lot worse, and I, for one, would be more sympathetic to how he feels.

Pretty much this.

[Kim]

So I just found out that Tidus and Zanarkand are apparently a dream being had by the Fayth. I can't decide how I feel about this twist. I think I want to like it, but I'm also pretty sure I think it's really fuckin' dumb.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

So I just found out that Tidus and Zanarkand are apparently a dream being had by the Fayth. I can't decide how I feel about this twist. I think I want to like it, but I'm also pretty sure I think it's really fuckin' dumb.

What is worse, that or the Orphanage scene from FFVIII?

[Krylo]

Nonc: It makes the end about a majillion times better.

Until FFX-2 fucks it up by bringing Tidus back.

[Kim]

What is worse, that or the Orphanage scene from FFVIII?

Better, since I can kinda get behind it on this whole "Is the me in this world just a dream a butterfly is having?" level, and there is the tiniest, vaguest fraction of foreshadowing.

[Dauntasa]

Better, since I can kinda get behind it on this whole "Is the me in this world just a dream a butterfly is having?" level, and there is the tiniest, vaguest fraction of foreshadowing.

Wait, which are you saying is better? Because X had quite a bit of foreshadowing that something was up about Tidus' version of Zanarkand, whereas the Orphanage scene was basically "Oh hey look all these guys were at the same orphanage but they totally forgot."

[Kim]

Wait, which are you saying is better? Because X had quite a bit of foreshadowing that something was up about Tidus' version of Zanarkand, whereas the Orphanage scene was basically "Oh hey look all these guys were at the same orphanage but they totally forgot."

I'm saying X is better. That said, other than Mr. Fayth showing up for no apparent reason early on, what foreshadows the twist?

[Dauntasa]

I'm saying X is better. That said, other than Mr. Fayth showing up for no apparent reason early on, what foreshadows the twist?

Well, it's not really foreshadowed that he is specifically not real, but there are things that point to his Zanarkand not being the real Zanarkand. For one, Tidus has never heard of Summoners when he ends up in Spira, but later it gets mentioned that Zanarkand had summoners. He's also never heard of Bevelle, which was the city that Zanarkand was in a big war with when it was destroyed by Sin. It's been a while since I played last, so that's all I can think of right now, but I'm pretty sure there were other things.

[EVILNess]

What he said about X-2.

Someone didn't stay after the credits in X.

[Kim]

Well, it's not really foreshadowed that he is specifically not real, but there are things that point to his Zanarkand not being the real Zanarkand. For one, Tidus has never heard of Summoners when he ends up in Spira, but later it gets mentioned that Zanarkand had summoners. He's also never heard of Bevelle, which was the city that Zanarkand was in a big war with when it was destroyed by Sin. It's been a while since I played last, so that's all I can think of right now, but I'm pretty sure there were other things.

That's not the only reason I didn't like the twist, but you make good points. I do wish that more had been done to foreshadow it, and should have, but whatever.

Just beat the battle with Sin while on the airship, aka possibly the worst boss fight in the game. "What? You thought that fighting Sin's arm was kinda boring and took too long? How about you do it ONE MORE TIME!"

[Dauntasa]

Just beat the battle with Sin while on the airship, aka possibly the worst boss fight in the game. "What? You thought that fighting Sin's arm was kinda boring and took too long? How about you do it ONE MORE TIME!"

AND THEN HAVE TO DO IT AGAIN BECAUSE SIN CHARGED HIS OVERDRIVE ALL THE WAY AND NUKED YOU. Yeah, that was pretty dumb.

[Jagos]

Someone didn't stay after the credits in X.

Square may have made this with intentions of a sequel but I'll be damned if X-2 didn't happen (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DisContinuity).

They could have left it with the "is he alive or dead" ending and called it a day. Spend some time on FFXI, and keep motoring on. But then FFX-2 came out and, though it's chippy, Kinda took a lot away from what FFX had going for it.

[Donomni]

I didn't think it was bad at all, but I'm a dorky romantic about the relationships between fictional characters.

Different strokes, I guess?

Also, dude, spoilers.

[Jagos]

What is this spoiler you speak of? >_>

You do know I'm joking right?

[EVILNess]

This is so relevant it isn't even funny. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO4Fwhl26os)

[Donomni]

What is this spoiler you speak of? >_>

You do know I'm joking right?

Joking how? Maybe I'm just WOOSHING over the whole thing, or something?

I'd pay assloads of money for a NES FFX.

[EVILNess]

I'd pay assloads of money for a NES FFX.

That's a real NES ROM Hack (http://www.siliconera.com/2005/10/20/final-fantasy-x-for-the-nes/). It works, has the whole game, and a full Sphere Grid.

It's only available in Japanese though.

[Kim]

So, I'm at the fight with Jecht. I thought their little conversation beforehand was really well done.

I do have a handful of complaints about this part, though.

1. Holy fuck why can't I skip cutscenes Jesus Christ.

2. That fixed, rotating camera spike dodging bullshit before the fight with Jecht is just... ARGH.

I'm about to lose my first time fighting him, partially because I let Auron, who I haven't levelled worth a damn, stay in my party far too long before switching him for Lulu. Also, I wasted too much time attacking those stupid pillars. Also also, Lulu doesn't have Ultima and the way I hear it she should. Also, I'm really annoyed that the game likes to rearrange my party because it thinks it knows better. If I wanted fucking Auron in my party I would put him in my party douchebag.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Call up Anima, nuke the fucker. You DID get Anima, right?? Or at least the Magus Sisters??

Quadruplet of 9?? Celestials??? Attack reels?? If not any of these, then yeah, it may be a bit tricky.

[Kim]

Yeah, I don't have any of those. I suppose I might run off and grab them, then come back here, though I'd wager that means I'll have to go ALL THE WAY through this dungeon again, random encounters and all.

Figure I'll grind Auron and Lulu up while I'm at it, so Lulu can doublecast Flare and Auron can do defensive breaks on Jecht. Will probably make the game stupid easy again.

[Dauntasa]

Yeah, I don't have any of those. I suppose I might run off and grab them, then come back here, though I'd wager that means I'll have to go ALL THE WAY through this dungeon again, random encounters and all.

Figure I'll grind Auron and Lulu up while I'm at it, so Lulu can doublecast Flare and Auron can do defensive breaks on Jecht. Will probably make the game stupid easy again.

Best way to get Ultima is to have Kimahri get it and then use a Black Magic Sphere to give to Lulu and Yuna. Also helpful: Wings to Discovery. If you absolutely cannot beat Jecht, go back to the Calm Lands, find that Chocobo race, run it, get three chests, and win. Then use Rikku to mix two of them together in the battle with Jecht, then have Tidus use Slice and Dice and Lulu use one of her furies. Boom, you win.

[Sithdarth]

Figure I'll grind Auron and Lulu up while I'm at it, so Lulu can doublecast Flare and Auron can do defensive breaks on Jecht. Will probably make the game stupid easy again

Just wait till you can combine 1 MP weapons with a double cast Ultima and then have the rest of your front line mimic that double cast and blow your opposition into oblivion. Though the animation does get boring after awhile. Luckily not much can withstand to many rounds like that.

[Mirai Gen]

I've been kinda rushing so I could focus on other games.
This is something I've been finding as I do weekly reviews, as well.

[Donomni]

That's a real NES ROM Hack (http://www.siliconera.com/2005/10/20/final-fantasy-x-for-the-nes/). It works, has the whole game, and a full Sphere Grid.

It's only available in Japanese though.

Someone needs to translate that shit.

[Jagos]

Joking how? Maybe I'm just WOOSHING over the whole thing, or something?

I'd pay assloads of money for a NES FFX.

If I didn't say I was kidding about spoilers someone would have said something on how to use spoilers. :)

[Krylo]

I'd pay assloads of money for a NES FFX.

Why?

It'd be the same game but with shittier graphics, and the writing would seem even worse 'cause they were using facial expressions and body language to say a lot that earlier (NES/SNES era) games found ways to work into dialogue.

I mean, some of the VA was pretty aggravating, but was it really THAT bad?

[bluestarultor]

Why?

It'd be the same game but with shittier graphics, and the writing would seem even worse 'cause they were using facial expressions and body language to say a lot that earlier (NES/SNES era) games found ways to work into dialogue.

I mean, some of the VA was pretty aggravating, but was it really THAT bad?

Novelty. I have FF1 on the PSX, but I prefer it on the NES because of the novelty factor. And I didn't even grow up with an NES.

I think that the outdated graphics and sounds have a certain charm to them. Just because they're not high-res sprites doesn't mean they aren't good in their own way. People put work into making things look good in a tiny space. I, myself, have experimented making FF7 NES sprites. It's pretty neat, all told.

[Mirai Gen]

Joking how? Maybe I'm just WOOSHING over the whole thing, or something?

I'd pay assloads of money for a NES FFX.

Why?

It'd be the same game but with shittier graphics, and the writing would seem even worse 'cause they were using facial expressions and body language to say a lot that earlier (NES/SNES era) games found ways to work into dialogue.

I mean, some of the VA was pretty aggravating, but was it really THAT bad?

Novelty. I have FF1 on the PSX, but I prefer it on the NES because of the novelty factor. And I didn't even grow up with an NES.

I think that the outdated graphics and sounds have a certain charm to them. Just because they're not high-res sprites doesn't mean they aren't good in their own way. People put work into making things look good in a tiny space. I, myself, have experimented making FF7 NES sprites. It's pretty neat, all told.

Okay, deja vu.

[CelesJessa]

Yeah, I don't have any of those.

I didn't have any of the optional summons when I first fought Jecht either, it makes it a LOT harder. Hope you like that cutscene beforehand and are ready for a long, tough battle.

Protip: Unless I've gone crazy, the spell Zombie works on pretty much all of the final bosses. It's one of the only times I've found that spell useful. Jecht cures himself eventually but it can be useful for when he wants to heal himself.

Also, I think Tidus and Auron and such can use a special "talk" command for him like in the Seymour fights that I believe will weaken Jecht or strengthen them or something. (I dunno, it's been a long time since I've beat FFX.)

[Donomni]

I think it keeps him from using his "Fuck you I win" Overdrive.

Novelty. I have FF1 on the PSX, but I prefer it on the NES because of the novelty factor. And I didn't even grow up with an NES.

I think that the outdated graphics and sounds have a certain charm to them. Just because they're not high-res sprites doesn't mean they aren't good in their own way. People put work into making things look good in a tiny space. I, myself, have experimented making FF7 NES sprites. It's pretty neat, all told.

This. I don't want it because I don't like the voice acting(to be honest, I don't), I want it because it's cool.

[Yumil]

Also, I think Tidus and Auron and such can use a special "talk" command for him like in the Seymour fights that I believe will weaken Jecht or strengthen them or something. (I dunno, it's been a long time since I've beat FFX.)

It causes him to hesitate, making him lose a turn.

[Jagos]

Tidus actually makes him lose some of his Overdrive as well, IIRC.

[Mirai Gen]

It upgrades Wakka's Defense and Tidus' attack, I thought.

[Dauntasa]

It upgrades Wakka's Defense and Tidus' attack, I thought.

That's in the fight with Seymour, I think.

[Jagos]

Yeah, it doesn't make sense for Wakka to talk to Jecht since Tidus is the only one related to the Final Aeon. Main thing is getting the "F___ you I win" overdrive from being activated.But I still can't remember if the talk function stops after a certain time...

[Solid Snake]

Just promise me, NonCon:

Whatever you do, do not play Final Fantasy X-2.

Do you hear me? Whenever anyone mentions the theoretical existence of a "sequel to Final Fantasy X," you roll your eyes disdainfully and remind them that Squaresoft never makes sequels to Final Fantasy games. You hold your damn ground when they hold up images of Yuna and Rikku and an effeminate looking man in negligible amounts of clothing to convince you otherwise. Those are doctored photos! They aren't real!

You must persist in this illusory state of serenity. Against all odds, this conviction must hold true in your heart. When Final Fantasy X ends, it's over. Anyone who dares mutter thoughts to the contrary is an enemy of the state.

[Eltargrim]

I liked FFX-2.

Shitty story, music was a step down, but the combat system was fun. It wasn't soul-destroying or anything, just a very different game set 2 years later.

[Solid Snake]

I liked FFX-2.

WHAT

It wasn't soul-destroying or anything,

You lie.
No seriously there is quite possibly no game I hate as much as FFX-2. It's not that FFX-2 is actually a terrible game -- on its own merits, and if it were released as a title with no correlation whatsoever to FFX and a completely different cast of characters, it'd be merely a generic below-average JRPG. But what makes the game despicable is the moment Square tries to assert that this piece of junk is tangibly related to Final Fantasy X. It's like if an artist paints a masterpiece and then some stranger walked over and just started throwing random splotches of paint on there. (And to clarify, FFX wasn't even my favorite Final Fantasy. It was just pretty good. But the ending of FFX was masterful, and then Square utterly demolished its bittersweet resonance for no justifiable reason.)

[Eltargrim]

See, I've conditioned myself to keep them as two separate entities in my mind. They're parallel universes; FFX happened in one, and in the other (FFX Spoilers!)the fayth never stopped dreaming. FFX-2 is what they dreamt up because the party failed. Instead of Dream Zanarkand, we now have Dream Spira. Makes everything palatable.

[bluestarultor]

FFX-2 is by no means a bad game. It's got a great battle system and the ability to change classes is a welcome replacement for the multiple party members of FFX. Also, the music is good, the story is good on several merits (for one, you get to see Yuna get all territorial about Tidus and you also learn about Paine and her connections), and Spira is as pretty as ever, only blown wide open for you to explore.


The only real complaints people have about it are a couple of scenes worth of cheesecake and the ending, but the ending is really the only appropriate reward given Yuna's quest and it does tie things up well.

[Yumil]

(And to clarify, FFX wasn't even my favorite Final Fantasy. It was just pretty good. But the ending of FFX was masterful, and then Square utterly demolished its bittersweet resonance for no justifiable reason.)
Considering that the video after the credits in FFX set up the secret end in FFX-2 means it didn't destroy it, as it was always going to be a happy ending. That shit was planned.

Proof of such (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPYr6RadLkY)
The true ending to X-2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNUhU_gjqvM)

If you didn't expect a sequal and a happy end after the after credit vid on X, you are crazy.

[Solid Snake]

(Mild Shadow of the Colossus spoilers are also included in the spoiler-tags. You are forewarned.)

Nah man, I totally interpreted Final Fantasy X's post-Credits ending as metaphorical or something and did not make any connection whatsoever to the possibility that Tidus was going to show up alive in Spira and immediately be reunited with Yuna upon his reawakening in perhaps the most terrible happy ending in the history of all pathetic, melodramatic happy endings.

When the entire emotional impetus of the game revolves around a tragic ending, retconning it into "happily ever after" frankly sucks. Like, take Shadow of the Colossus. If a post-credits scene in that game established that Wander actually somehow survived and the horse fully healed and Wander runs up and embraces the woman he rescued that shit is lame. The entire plotline revolves around the tragic consequences of Wander's morally ambiguous actions in slaying the colossi. Similarly, Tidus being merely a dream conjured by Sin or whatever the hell he was -- it's been a while -- is the entire point of Final Fantasy X. Tidus' sacrifice is poignant in part because it's completely out of left field -- you spend the whole game assuming Yuna's life will be sacrificed, when in reality Tidus is the one who bites it.

And Tidus' ending is beautifully scripted -- he has a reunion of sorts with his estranged father, Jecht, and there's the awesome sequence of Tidus slappin' five with Jecht and Auron after Tidus fades into obscurity. The whole message is about Tidus' maturation as a character. He starts the game off a spoiled brat, and finishes the experience as a noble hero, who Yuna is left to fondly remember. Then Tidus is back in the water in the end but given the allegorical meanings of water itself there's no real way to tell exactly what that means.

Instead Square-Enix shuts down that beautiful bittersweet ending for some happily-ever-after bullshit and you call that good storytelling? No, that's shit storytelling. It's the kind of storytelling written in bad fanfiction that eradicates all semblance of theme and character progression and emotional investment by having Deus Ex Machinas up the ass rescuing all the main characters at just the right moment to ensure that the main characters can spend the rest of their precious lives in fairytale land. That's the comparison I was looking for! It just occurred to me -- Final Fantasy X-2 takes an approach similar to Dominic Deegan. Your investment in the characters and their well-beings are thoroughly destroyed as there are effectively no stakes because you know the storyline will end with every important character surviving and every such character having their cake and eating it, too.

Of course there's ALSO the problem of how Yuna's characterization actually regresses in two years from a mature woman willing to sacrifice herself to stop Sin and understanding the tragic consequences of truly loving someone, into a goddamn cheesecake Diva who explicitly refuses to sacrifice anyone's lives in the game's ending in order to stop a Doomsday Machine. Allow me to repeat this as it's critical as to why I hate FFX-2: Yuna refuses to sacrifice the lives of any friends in order to stop a Doomsday Machine, effectively meaning that if the Doomsday Machine is subsequently successful, Yuna's own stinginess in sacrificing the lives of a few friends would condemn all of Spira. Nice job with that character progression, Yunie!

Also there's the whole concept of Spira itself advancing into a fun-filled reality-TV nonsensical adventure park in a mere two years' span after Sin is destroyed. Hey, this once religiously devout society dominated by a spiral of death and fear of destruction is liberated from Sin and...in TWO YEARS... society completely and utterly transforms? The entire psychological welfare of the people of Spira goes topsy-turvy? Everyone's obsessed with MTV-style presentations of pathetic pop songs? WHAT?!??

I'm sorry but I could seriously keep going FFX-2 is seriously an affront upon all reason and copies of it should be burned and Square-Enix should be forced to apologize for ever making this game.

[Yumil]

Of course there's ALSO the problem of how Yuna's characterization actually regresses in two years from a mature woman willing to sacrifice herself to stop Sin and understanding the tragic consequences of truly loving someone, into a goddamn cheesecake Diva who explicitly refuses to sacrifice anyone's lives in the game's ending in order to stop a Doomsday Machine. Allow me to repeat this as it's critical as to why I hate FFX-2: Yuna refuses to sacrifice the lives of any friends in order to stop a Doomsday Machine, effectively meaning that if the Doomsday Machine is subsequently successful, Yuna's own stinginess in sacrificing the lives of a few friends would condemn all of Spira. Nice job with that character progression, Yunie!
I don't necessarily see that as a regression. You've gotta throw in all the other factors in to her want to sacrifice herself in X. It wasn't because she was mature, it was because her father did it and everyone expected her to do it. It was so ingrained in her as it was the whole religion that she didn't really have a choice in the matter.

To her not wanting to sacrifice anyone, she wasn't told Tidus would stop existing without the Fayth and in the end lost him. If you have a big loss like that, I'm sure you'd exhaust all other options before losing another person. It's understandable why she's stingy. Add to it that summoners sacrificing themselves to sin in the past did not solve the problem, it goes along with the same theme.

I agree X-2 has a lot of problems, I cant stand watching most of the cutscenes as it's just to heavy with the girl power stuff, but I wouldnt say she's regressed. She's came out of her shell for certain and as a character she grew from being that reverent girl being bred to kill herself for everyone, finally she's living partly for herself.

[Krylo]

Also, on Culture.

Their entire religion was proven to be not just false, but actively lying to them and murdering the fuck out of them by way of giant doom whale, not to mention ruled by the undead. Further, the people had been shown to drown their sorrows in ridiculous and silly pass times while Sin was around. It is anything but a large leap to assume that their society would cope with finding out that they'd all been basically living lies for generations by trying as hard as they can to ignore it and drown their sorrows in false happiness ala MTV Diva shit.

Though I totally agree with what you've said about the ending scene, Snake. I never assumed that meant he was alive. I thought it was metaphorical or something, because him being alive at that point made less than 0 sense.

[Solid Snake]

Any character who suddenly decides that the life of a single individual, any individual, supersedes the continued existence of the world, including that aforementioned individual, has clearly regressed.

Whether Yuna's initial justifications for being willing to sacrifice herself for the sake of Spira were justified by personal maturity or simply following her father's example or whatever, doesn't change the fact that philosophically it's the right decision to make 100% of the time. For Yuna to choose any alternative would be selfish. She'd have to value her own self-preservation over the lives of thousands of others.

Of course what's really strange is that the situation with the ancient Doomsday device -- whatever the hell it was -- in FFX-2 is arguably far worse than Sin. Sin was a continued nuisance that wrecked lives every decade or so, but it never came close to destroying the entire planet or wiping out all of humanity. In fact, Spira's residents largely accepted Sin as a continued destructive force. Yuna's sacrifice in FFX would have only bought Spira another decade or so of peace before Sin presumably resurfaced. By contrast, in FFX-2, ancient Zanarkand Doomsday Machine or whatever is going to fuck all of Spira up. Sin's effects are predictable; Doomsday Machine was an unknown monstrosity buried under the Calm Lands or something, if I remember correctly.

The bottom line is this: In such a situation, it's a simple sign of fucking caring about the continued existence of the human race to allow individuals to sacrifice themselves to stop the threat. If you don't, you risk everybody dying -- including the people you're so worried about in the first place! Yuna's decision was thus arbitrary and her speech about refusing to sacrifice anyone made no sense. She was willing to sacrifice everyone in order to, uhh, preserve the mere insubstantial chance of sacrificing no one? Yeah, that's not character maturation or progression, that's sheer character stupidity.

EDIT: Regarding culture: I just don't think that progression happens in two years. I don't care if all the evidence in the world is immediately released that exposes Yevon for a pile of shit. In a mere two year span, there will still be plenty of Yevon defenders, out of sheer stubbornness or petty denial. In two years, the kinds of infrastructure upgrades wouldn't be possible to support a Diva-MTV resurgence. The entertainment industry, virtually defunct besides Blitzball during the FFX era, isn't suddenly going to develop like that.

The real problem with FFX-2 though isn't that all these changes have necessarily happened in such a short span of time, but rather, that the game merrily assumes you're going to go along with all the bullshit and never really seems to provide any semblance of justification for anything. Even if Yuna had a few serious scenes where the shifting beliefs and demographics in Spira were fully explored -- in a way that didn't seem ludicrous or played for laughs -- that could have worked. Final Fantasy X-2 does not attempt to provide justification because the game doesn't take itself seriously, which works fine if the game had no correlation to FFX. But as a sequel to FFX, FFX-2 had an obligation of sorts to actually explain its correlation to FFX. The complete shift in tone is jarring -- and it should've taken at least a decade for the political, theological, and bureaucratic underpinnings of society to erode in such a fashion.

[Krylo]

Snake: Sacrificing people in the past never worked. Upon learning this it would be completely ridiculous for her to assume that it's going to start working now. If anything that was a pretty large sub-point of FFX. That merely choosing to allow someone to sacrifice themselves so that everyone else can keep on doing what they're doing isn't morally/ethically right, and that it doesn't actually fix the problems.

You can disagree with it, but it's there.

This is also why Tidus's sacrifice was potent. He didn't sacrifice himself BY himself. He was merely a casualty of a war that the entirety of Spira was involved in as opposed to a sacrificial offering. Yes, he knew he would probably cease to exist upon their victory, but fighting your hardest knowing there is a damn good, or even 100% chance of dying, is not at all the same as being a sacrificial offering.

The route he took was, indeed, all about denying that anyone would need to be a sacrificial offering ever again.

For Yuna to choose to sacrifice her friends would have gone against the morals of FFX.

[Dauntasa]

X-2 didn't really make any goddamn sense. I mean, are we expected to believe that everyone just accepted that the religion that fucking everyone had followed fanatically as the only means of survival for a thousand years was complete and total bullshit? Because that would never actually happen. Hell, Sin normally takes ten or so years to pop back after he gets killed. Why the fuck did anyone think anything different after Yuna and co. took out Yevon? She was a wanted criminal, too. If she came back and said "Oh hey Sin's gone forever now." why would anyone actually take her word on it? And another thing: Machines. Everyone except the Al Bhed spent their entire lives right from the first day being told "Machines Are Bad." X-2 rolls around and even the fucking New Yevonites are running around with guns. The whole damn game just makes no fucking sense.

[Yumil]

It's hard to say either way, since there are two ways of thinking. Most of the Japanese media I see value the life of the individual over more(though they still make those who sacrifice themselves into heroes...so I guess it's somewhat of a weird concept). Heck, it shows up in Western stuff a lot too. Maybe Im too used to it being a Japanese thing that what I do doesn't enter my mind when playing the game>.<

[Krylo]

X-2 didn't really make any goddamn sense. I mean, are we expected to believe that everyone just accepted that the religion that fucking everyone had followed fanatically as the only means of survival for a thousand years was complete and total bullshit? Because that would never actually happen. Hell, Sin normally takes ten or so years to pop back after he gets killed. Why the fuck did anyone think anything different after Yuna and co. took out Yevon? She was a wanted criminal, too. If she came back and said "Oh hey Sin's gone forever now." why would anyone actually take her word on it? And another thing: Machines. Everyone except the Al Bhed spent their entire lives right from the first day being told "Machines Are Bad." X-2 rolls around and even the fucking New Yevonites are running around with guns. The whole damn game just makes no fucking sense.

Probably the whole provability of undead Maesters. Also lots of people still followed Yevon, but now it was New Yevon, and ruled by a new guard that outright admitted what had been going down before and apparently let Yuna off the hook.

Not only that, but no one on spira actually gave to shit fucks about HOW Sin went down, just so long as they got themselves a Calm. See: Large scale support of Operation Mi'ihen. The ONLY character we saw whom out right opposed it was Wakka, and he only opposed it 'cause of misplaced anger over his dead brother.

It wouldn't matter at all if Sin came back in ten years. What would matter was that they now know they can kill Sin without sacrificing a summoner. It's possible. They can fight him.

[Yumil]

X-2 rolls around and even the fucking New Yevonites are running around with guns.
X had Yevon guards with guns. Proof is the fight before the wedding.

[Dauntasa]

It wouldn't matter at all if Sin came back in ten years. What would matter was that they now know they can kill Sin without sacrificing a summoner. It's possible. They can fight him.

Yeah, there is that. But I think someone would've started asking questions about how Yuna went in with 6 guardians and came out with 4.

X had Yevon guards with guns. Proof is the fight before the wedding.

Yes, but those were secret Yevon guards that nobody really knew about. Wakka nearly shat himself when he saw them. New Yevon is completely upfront about having guns and nobody cares.

[Solid Snake]

For Yuna to choose to sacrifice her friends would have gone against the morals of FFX.

If your point is "the morals of FFX and FFX-2 were equally screwed up," yeah, I could actually buy that. The difference is that FFX's story was actually told well enough that I forgave my philosophical disagreements with the characters. Whereas FFX-2 doesn't even really give a damn about explaining the philosophical positions of the characters because everyone's too busy yukking it up in a series of comedic cheesepuff scenes that border on the incredulous. FFX-2's poor storytelling everywhere else undermine it when it actually attempts to become serious at the end because I'm still having nightmares about Yuna giving JPop performances and comparing breast sizes and giving a female rival a backrub.

It's like if I'm having a political debate against Barack Obama and Michael Moore. Obama and Moore may take the same exact position on an issue -- for the sake of hypothetical argument, let's go with Affirmative Action, because I probably would disagree with them both on that issue.

I may vehemently disagree with their positions on that issue. But I bet you Obama is going to present a case methodically in such a way that I find credible. I may disagree with his position, and I may find his arguments unpersuasive, but because he backs it up with evidence and generally treats his arguments seriously and with a proper amount of research and respect I can't dislike him for making his case. In fact, I may ultimately emphasize enough to understand why he believes Affirmative Action is necessary and vital. I could understand his perspective and how his life experiences and his interpretation of facts leads him to a particular set of beliefs, while simultaneously disagreeing.

And then there's Michael Moore, who'd just spew out random bullcrap in the least effective, least credible way imaginable. (This may be an exaggeration against Moore, who probably isn't always as bombastic as his critics paint him, but I'm relying on the stereotype for the sake of the point.)

Okay that's a bad analogy but it's 1:30 in the morning. My point is, FFX is sort of like Obama in that hypothetical and FFX-2 is sort of like Michael Moore.

[bluestarultor]

So what I'm getting is that you hate X-2 because of its light tone and a small sliver of cheesecake.

While we're at it, let's hate on FFIX because Zidane is actually fun to be around and FF5 for Bartz's free spirit.

I mean, seriously, FFX-2 made no pretense at being a super-serious dramathon. You could gather that from the box art. I liked it because Yuna was finally free of her burden and actually was, y'know, living for herself, the way she wanted to, and enjoying her new life and the freedom from fear of a giant monster that regularly messed shit up just to make life Hell under a religion directly supporting it. Without all the pomp and bullshit, yeah, people were re-adjusting to life without a Sword of Damocles all the time. And they were still very much in the process of adjusting. Many people DIDN'T let go, and the ones who did were badly in need of direction. The entire world was an odd mix of the old trying to find a place in the new, people still wearing the same clothes as always, even in vastly different positions, still not quite on kilter yet. Yuna and crew represented a new wave blazing a path into an uncertain future. They dressed like no one else dressed, and their constant changes in decor could be seen as highlighting the uncertainty of where the world was headed, like a teenager experimenting with being goth or prep in an attempt to find their niche. They could be seen to represent experimentation, but they had the confidence to do so.

There are a lot more allegories and explorations than you're giving the game credit for, Snake.

[Kim]

Well, I've got Tidus and Yuna their Celestial weapons. Auron is strong enough that he can survive long enough to be switched out with Lulu. Lulu doesn't have her Celestial because FUCK THAT. I have all the summons. Tidus has Auron's breaks learned. I think I'm ready to kick all the ass.

[Sithdarth]

Well, I've got Tidus and Yuna their Celestial weapons. Auron is strong enough that he can survive long enough to be switched out with Lulu. Lulu doesn't have her Celestial because FUCK THAT. I have all the summons. Tidus has Auron's breaks learned. I think I'm ready to kick all the ass.

Nope not even close. End bosses probably but the higher ranking boss monsters from the monster farm thing would still mess you up six ways from Sunday. Of course that never really changes even with a full sphere grid.

[Kim]

Nope not even close. End bosses probably but the higher ranking boss monsters from the monster farm thing would still mess you up six ways from Sunday. Of course that never really changes even with a full sphere grid.

Yes, but I'm not fighting them.

So... I'm pretty sure that was the worst final boss in the history of the Final Fantasy franchise. Like... just... wow. So terrible.

I'm gonna go back to the game now so I can finish the cinematic and then bitch about the ending.

[katiuska]

One random question: can anyone explain why the Guado guard just breaks Jyscal's sphere without any question? I know that Spirans are all about their Maesters, and you just killed theirs, but if you were given a message from your previous Maester, wouldn't you be slightly interested in what he had to say? Or was this supposed to show that the guards were in on Seymour's whole thing?

[Kim]

I think the latter.


So. I'm done. I'm finished with this. It was a lot better than I expected it to be. The ending was great, though I would have preferred it if it had ended on the father and son high five bit. I have a lot of complaints about it, but overall it's a great game, and certainly one I'd recommend to people.

I still think the soundtrack for this game may be the best the series has seen, though I'm sure someone will point to another one and prove me dumb.

I do think it was dumb to make Seymour's backstory, you know that thing that led to him becoming a villain, be something you had to find an optional Aeon to earn, but it was pulled off really well, I'll give it that.

And that's that! The longest journey lasted about fifty hours, and I got a decent amount of stuff completed in it. I can now scratch another FF game off the long list and feel a little prouder of myself. Yay.

[Mirai Gen]

So what I'm getting is that you hate X-2 because of its light tone and a small sliver of cheesecake.


I mean, seriously, FFX-2 made no pretense at being a super-serious dramathon. You could gather that from the box art. I liked it because Yuna was finally free of her burden and actually was, y'know, living for herself, the way she wanted to, and enjoying her new life and the freedom from fear of a giant monster that regularly messed shit up just to make life Hell under a religion directly supporting it.

I hated it because it essentially went in an entirely new direction with the game, painting the heroes instead of a fellowship on the way to accomplish a goal as super-ridiculous flower-power Charlie's Angels slutty outfit wank-sock that followed the story directly after a rather honest and heartfelt 'saving the world' story.

I'm not okay with taking the kinda gentle and quiet Yuna and putting her in booty shorts with double handguns. Just, you know, saying.

[bluestarultor]

I hated it because it essentially went in an entirely new direction with the game, painting the heroes instead of a fellowship on the way to accomplish a goal as super-ridiculous flower-power Charlie's Angels slutty outfit wank-sock that followed the story directly after a rather honest and heartfelt 'saving the world' story.

I'm not okay with taking the kinda gentle and quiet Yuna and putting her in booty shorts with double handguns. Just, you know, saying.

I saw it mostly as her throwing off her entire old life. She moped around Besaid for a month or two after X, but I don't think she really got any peace there. She specifically hates being famous and jumped at the first opportunity to run off and escape it and the boring tedium that was sitting in one spot trying to live like nothing had ever happened. I think in the process, she started trying to cast off everything that had gotten her to that situation, and she's still in the process in X-2. While she dresses differently, she's still got a good deal of innocence left and can't help but help people.



Edit: Also, I happened to like the light tone. Yeah, it's a little goofy, but they're really not saving the world until, like, two seconds from the end, anyway. Their main mission for most of the game is a happy one, looking for Tidus, and the game gets appropriately serious when serious stuff happens.

[Mirai Gen]

she's still got a good deal of innocence left and can't help but help people.
Booty shorts.

[Krylo]

I'm not okay with taking the kinda gentle and quiet Yuna and putting her in booty shorts with double handguns. Just, you know, saying.

She went from Yamato Nadeshiko (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YamatoNadeshiko) to Action Girl in booty shorts. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ActionGirl)

Honestly, the first is probably about a million times more sexist.

[Mirai Gen]

She went from Yamato Nadeshiko (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YamatoNadeshiko) to Action Girl in booty shorts. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ActionGirl)

Honestly, the first is probably about a million times more sexist.

It isn't even really sexism at this point. It's just fucking stupid, inconsistent, and utterly ridiculous.

EDIT: Yuna can be an Action Girl or Yamato Nadeshiko and I don't care which I just don't know how the hell you get from one to the other.

[Krylo]

I don't know.

It's pretty easy to justify any character changes in a two year period given what that two year period consisted of. Especially in Yuna's case, when we consider that she never actually got to be her own person before, and was constantly living in her father's shadow/convinced she was going to die so there was absolutely no point for her to even think about the possibility of having fun or being anything other than a sacrificial lamb.

Plus, her main influence over those two years during which she was undoubtedly trying to discover herself was Rikku with a dash of Brother and a splash of Paine. If that doesn't make you goofy, nothing will.

Edit: There may be some bias in my justifying it, however, because I would be perfectly happy if every single Yamato Nadeshiko was turned into, literally, any other character trope overnight. I fucking hate that character trope so much. SO much.

[Mirai Gen]

If that doesn't make you goofy, nothing will.
The director seemed to be in on it when he made it into, as I said, Charlie's Angels.

But I digress.

[Amake]

Soo congrats NonCon. Watcha gonna do now?

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

What about FF9 for music? Actually how long has it been since you played the 9th installment.

[Azisien]

BLAH BLAH BLAH DRAMA BLAH BLAH BLAH CHARACTERIZATION BLAH BLAH BLAH CHEESE BLAH BLAH BLAH TROPES

I thought the combat was pretty fun, that's why I played it through to the end. Biggest disappointment was beating one of the super tough extra bosses (not hard but took like an hour or so) and getting jack shit for reward.

P.S. HAY LOOK I'M A FLOWER!!!

[Kim]

Soo congrats NonCon. Watcha gonna do now?

I'm going to Disneyland going to take a break from all jRPGs with the exception of FF Crystal Bearers and FFXIII when it comes out until after I've beaten and reviewed the latter. For the time being I'm looking for more off-beat or obscure titles to play.