Ivalice? More like Vana...lice! Shut up. (FFXII thread)

[Donomni]

Finally got around to playing this a few days ago, just beat the Demon Wall in Raithwall's Tomb(The second one, because I suck).

Besides FF III, this is the only FF game I've taken on without a strategy guide, although I have used GameFAQs for things along the lines of blink-and-you'll-miss-it-forever shit that RPGs looooove to do.

The plot is very good, like, right-from-the-get-go good. That bit with Reks at the end of the tutorial... god, so sad. It was also nice that that particular bit with the empire docking a fleet at Bhrujerba or whatever it's called when you first get there didn't end with the typical "We're the evil empire so FUCK DIPLOMACY" invasion bit.

I have this weird way of not hating characters unless they're gigantic dicks, so this might not mean much, but I like the main cast. Even Vaan and Penelo, despite knowing they have the depth and importance of a turnip compared to the rest of the cast. Shit, I still keep Vaan out all the time... out of habit, I guess.

The games seriously feels like FFXI, right down to monsters that can eat your face right next to cannon fodder. At first I didn't think I'd use Gambits, but they really do help take the load off insane micromanagement in combat, although I wish I could get more targets sooner(Can't make a Gambit for Charge, for one...).

The license grid is a semi-improvement to FFX's Sphere Grid, in that you don't need to spend items to learn junk or spend any points just to move around to wherever junk you need to learn. My only gripes about the system is that you apparently need to learn to use different pointy sticks despite the fact that they are the same type of pointy stick(Just using it for spells, stats bonuses, and learning just TYPES of equipment woulda been fine), and that everyone really does end up the same way waaaay too early.

Also, Marks are already getting to the point of "Fuck it, I'll come back later" things.

Anywho, discussion and junk. Just avoid posting spoilers for now, if you could, please... at least any past where I'm at, I'm more or less going in blind plot-wise.

[Regulus Tera]

Marks are the best thing about this game. <3 200 hours of my life lost.

I still wish they had brought the International Zodiac Job System here.

[Ryong]

Did you use a FAQ so you don't miss the Zodiac Spear? ( Well, you can get as many as you want, actually, but it's a chance of less than 0.001% for each. )

And also, Vaan is a pretty good character stats-wise, so I suggest you keep using him. Ashe and Basch too.

I still wish they had brought the International Zodiac Job System here.

Me too. You go check the people trying to simulate it in the normal game by making every class incredibly specific.

[Donomni]

Did you use a FAQ so you don't miss the Zodiac Spear? ( Well, you can get as many as you want, actually, but it's a chance of less than 0.001% for each. )

Hells yeah, the last thing I want to deal with is bend-your-leg-thus-so-and-kinda-maybe-something-good-will-happen RNG manipulation bullcrap.

A lot I can deal with, but this Zodiac Spear nonsense? No way in hell, mang.

[Kim]

Don't try to rush and do all the hunts at once. You'll probably end up saving most of them until near the end.

Zodiac Spear nonsense can go fuck itself.

<3 Gambits

The plot is great and gets better.

There is some slowdown in one of the last dungeons and during one hunt. This is possibly the game's greatest flaw.

License board is nice for building certain types of characters, but it would have benefited from giving you less freedom.

Use the fuck out of your protect, haste, shell, etc spells before boss fights or during. This goes doubly so for hunts.


It's not perfect, but it's easily my favorite FF game of what I've played. VI is a very, very close second.

[01d55]

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but whoever you have casting heals most often should get the first three limit break squares on the license board - the second and third each give an entire extra mp bar.

Once you have multiple characters who can use 'em, you get access to this shitty minigame while they charge up which lets you A. queue another one to be used after the current one and B. get a free bar of MP.

[bluestarultor]

Nonsie, you haven't played FFVII? I assume if you're getting XIII, you have a PS3 and VII is $10. There is no reason you should not buy it. Despite the fanboys lauding it as the Second Coming and people like Nightie overreacting and calling it crap, it's overall a decent game.



That said, a helpful tip. Don't keep Balthier with guns. He's actually the slowest with them because of his badass flourish.

Also, (keep in mind this is my personal bias) stick someone with a good Pole. They do damage based on the target's MDEF, but you can get in a good number of hits with them (we're talking an average of 4-hit combos). Plus, Balthier looks badass with one. I can't say whether he's necessarily good with them, but it looked so awesome I didn't care. :D

[Kim]

Nonsie, you haven't played FFVII? I assume if you're getting XIII, you have a PS3 and VII is $10. There is no reason you should not buy it. Despite the fanboys lauding it as the Second Coming and people like Nightie overreacting and calling it crap, it's overall a decent game.

I'm gonna be stuck with the 360 version of FFXIII, barring an act of God granting me 300 dollars for a PS3. I've played FFVII, but it was years and years ago, I never beat it, and Advent Children has made my memory very untrustworthy. I'll probably check it out when I have the time, which probably won't be until after Q1 of this year.

[Krylo]

Here's the only thing you ever need to do.

Get someone with haste/berserk/protect/shell. Then get Basche. Set up gambits to have the haste/berserk/protect/shell person keep Basche constantly under their effects.

Now have everyone else stand back and keep heals going his way.

Optional step: Lawl.

Also works with Balthier if you set him up with heavy armor and heavy melee weapons.

[bluestarultor]

I'm gonna be stuck with the 360 version of FFXIII, barring an act of God granting me 300 dollars for a PS3. I've played FFVII, but it was years and years ago, I never beat it, and Advent Children has made my memory very untrustworthy. I'll probably check it out when I have the time, which probably won't be until after Q1 of this year.

Ah. Well, one thing's for sure, Red XIII is the best character in the game in every way. Once you get him, you'll understand what I mean. Especially after you meet his family. ;)

[mauve]

Correction, Blues: Balthier looks badass with everything. Granted, I have him using a pole in my latest playthrough, and it is pretty awesome. During my first playthrough I was stupid and kept him with a gun for most of the game, just because he makes it look cool. This really only paid off when a) I learned Haste and had my mages spam it on him, or B) when I was controlling Balthier and decided to pick off enemies from a distance and let everyone else fend for themselves. Not the smartest decision, but it looked cool.


Also- You'll learn to love gambits more once you buy/find enough options and invest in enough gambit slots to make your entire team self-sufficient. Auto-remedies and such are really useful; especially for irritating status effects like confuse.



As far as marks go, I agree with everyone who says not to take them all on at once. They're fun, but they can get boring if you don't take a break. They don't expire and you're not graded on how much time you take. Also, some of them are just irritating. My original playthrough ended with me being unable to find ONE hunt. ONE. I can't seem to visit the Paramina Rift during a blizzard, no matter how long I freaking spend there. The monster I'm after only shows up during blizzards. Is there a trick to influencing the weather patterns?

[Kim]

My original playthrough ended with me being unable to find ONE hunt. ONE. I can't seem to visit the Paramina Rift during a blizzard, no matter how long I freaking spend there. The monster I'm after only shows up during blizzards. Is there a trick to influencing the weather patterns?

If I remember correctly, you have to navigate through the area in a certain order starting from a certain point.

[bluestarultor]

Correction, Blues: Balthier looks badass with everything. Granted, I have him using a pole in my latest playthrough, and it is pretty awesome. During my first playthrough I was stupid and kept him with a gun for most of the game, just because he makes it look cool. This really only paid off when a) I learned Haste and had my mages spam it on him, or B) when I was controlling Balthier and decided to pick off enemies from a distance and let everyone else fend for themselves. Not the smartest decision, but it looked cool.

Well, you have to realize my bias as a staff-user in real life. XD

[Donomni]

Don't try to rush and do all the hunts at once. You'll probably end up saving most of them until near the end.

Yeah, for sure. One hunt earlier against... Marilith, I think? Anyways, the damn thing nearly one-shotted each character, so I kinda had to run like mad to survive. :sweatdrop

Plot wise, I got Belias and got back to Rabanastre. Yes, let's experiment with a stone that sucks in Mist in an area balls-to-the-walls full of it without proper equipment or safety precautions! Judge Ghis: Retard.

Just beat Croakodile through Belias summoning at the start then spamming blind and slow and buffs. Kinda of a "Holy fuck, I won?" moment.

[Sithdarth]

Just wait till you meet Yiazmat. Took me like 8 hours times about 4 tries, thats about 8 hours per try 4 times, with all level 99 characters to beat that damn thing. Mostly cause I had like no ribbons and kept dying on like the last 1-2 bars of its life.

[Kim]

Just wait till you meet Yiazmat. Took me like 8 hours times about 4 tries, thats about 8 hours per try 4 times, with all level 99 characters to beat that damn thing. Mostly cause I had like no ribbons and kept dying on like the last 1-2 bars of its life.

You do know that you can walk away and save at any point during that fight, multiple times even, just so long as you make sure he doesn't cast Regen on your way out, right? RIGHT?

[Sithdarth]

I also know that when you do that the fight actually gets harder each time. Also, I wanted to do it in one go but I ended up eventually having to take one save once I got down to like two bars. Mostly to refill health and mana and get rid of some bad buffs.

[greed]

Yeah it's my favourite FF based on the characters, the sheer ridiculous number of optional bosses, the gameplay and the bestiary. I REALLY liked it. Probably in my top 5 games ever. Also probably put more time in it than any other game(Heroes 3 and Monster Rancher 2 might out do it here).

Also Gilgamesh's cameo was hilarious. He's voiced by Jon DiMaggio (Bender).

You really do not have to do the Zodiac spear garbage now. Somebody figured out how to manipulate the random number god for chest drops a while back letting you guarantee you get what you want if you jump through a few hoops. This method can be used to farm ribbons too. If you don't know what the Zodiac spear is it's the game's strongest(but not best) weapon. It will always appear in a certain chest in a optional high level area if you do not open certain chests during your playthrough. Unfortunately all of these chests are right in the open in areas you have to or are very likely to go through. Opening one of these chests means you have to get the spear from another chest which has a 1 in 3000(I think) chance of dropping it..

Finally you might want to look at a rare game guide. The game doesn't really help you with them and some have very good drops available early so it's worth knowing where/how to hunt them. And they have nothing to do with the plot so looking at a guide for them is very unlikely to spoil you other than telling you the name of locations you go to later.



On title: I've played FFI but it's so old I don't judge it with the rest. FFII gets judged just cause it is so retarded it's age is no excuse. Still gotta pick up the DS port of FFV some time.

[Donomni]

Somebody figured out how to manipulate the random number god for chest drops a while back letting you guarantee you get what you want if you jump through a few hoops.

No, you see, that's the bullshit I don't want to deal with in regards to the Zodiac spear. I've been skipping the requisite chests.

[DarkDrgon]

I played up until the time you get to your first Judge fight, loaned it to a friend, and have not seen it since -_-

I do remember not liking the battle system though. I just didnt get it.

[bluestarultor]

I played up until the time you get to your first Judge fight, loaned it to a friend, and have not seen it since -_-

I do remember not liking the battle system though. I just didnt get it.

The battle system is one of great weapon balance in true MMO style as played underwater. And the water is really molasses. It's slooooow. Nothing else really wrong with it, though.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I didn't mind the battle system. It was everything else about the game that annoyed me, especially after a really good start. I would go on and explain my views, but it would be a looong rant and I'm pretty sure I've done it before on the NPF.

[Sithdarth]

The battle system is one of great weapon balance in true MMO style as played underwater. And the water is really molasses. It's slooooow. Nothing else really wrong with it, though.

Eh it starts out that way but then you get gambits and you can crank the battle speed to max. Between that and haste/berserk combos things can get going pretty damn fast.

[bluestarultor]

I didn't mind the battle system. It was everything else about the game that annoyed me, especially after a really good start. I would go on and explain my views, but it would be a looong rant and I'm pretty sure I've done it before on the NPF.

Couldn't possibly be worse than what people have put on FF Wiki. There are also a bunch of plot holes that are never explained, like why Vaan is always seeing his older brother while the reason Ashe is seeing her beloved is covered.


Frankly, I could have dealt with everything else if the game had just had a global turbo button. Turbo for the battle, turbo for the story, turbo for the conversations (seriously, the way those people drawl half the time), and just plain a turbo so I feel like I'm actually DOING something other than watching Vaan run around with robot arms and his funny anti-clipping Chinese-split gait.

[Roland]

From what I've heard, the Zodiac Job version of the game does in fact have a fast-forward button.

Yet another awesome feature that we westerners will never get to see, because SE is somehow under the impression that westerners will not buy the same game twice. How they came to this conclusion when practically every one of their rereleases sells like hotcakes is beyond me.

Anywho, I actually never finished this game. I just kept doing sidequests and putting the final boss off and before I knew it I'd grown bored. Didn't even try to take on Yiazmat or Omega. That's changing with my current playthrough. Couldn't help but use one of the auto-leveling tricks, though.

[Kim]

There are also a bunch of plot holes that are never explained, like why Vaan is always seeing his older brother while the reason Ashe is seeing her beloved is covered.

I could probably attribute it to one of two things.

1. I can't remember what Vaan's brother looked like, so it could have just looked like him at first glance.

2. Seeing as it's an Occurian manipulating Ashe, the idea that it would take the form to most likely fuck with Vaan doesn't seem too far-fetched.

As for your turbo button complaint: There are settings to make the combat go faster, though we did unfortunately miss the turbo button from the Xenophobic Edition.

I don't really get your complaint about the plot though. The plot has actual pacing, especially when compared with FFX's ten seconds of "Look isn't Tidus' life awesome?" followed by a whole bunch of "Tidus is really sad that he isn't back home and he misses home and every time he narrates he's going to wonder if he's ever going to get home, and that's why you should care. As opposed to, say, taking the time to actually establish that he had a real life beyond squeeling fangirls before Sin showed up and fucked everything to hell."

[bluestarultor]

I could probably attribute it to one of two things.

1. I can't remember what Vaan's brother looked like, so it could have just looked like him at first glance.

2. Seeing as it's an Occurian manipulating Ashe, the idea that it would take the form to most likely fuck with Vaan doesn't seem too far-fetched.

As for your turbo button complaint: There are settings to make the combat go faster, though we did unfortunately miss the turbo button from the Xenophobic Edition.

I don't really get your complaint about the plot though. The plot has actual pacing, especially when compared with FFX's ten seconds of "Look isn't Tidus' life awesome?" followed by a whole bunch of "Tidus is really sad that he isn't back home and he misses home and every time he narrates he's going to wonder if he's ever going to get home, and that's why you should care. As opposed to, say, taking the time to actually establish that he had a real life beyond squeeling fangirls before Sin showed up and fucked everything to hell."

On #2, yes, it could be, but the question is why would they want to. Also, on #1, yes, the two men did look something similar, but that doesn't explain the differences.

Also, I get the plot has pacing, it's just that the pacing lost me to the good story underneath by dragging its feet. I normally HATE political dramas and even I have to admit FF12 had a good one. I just wondered at times why they didn't just break down and show cutscenes of everyone eating, sleeping, and going to the bathroom. You can have a well-paced plot and still have it go somewhere faster than that. The droning narration really didn't help it, either.

There's a good game in there, it's just too mired down to keep me slogging through it.

[Kim]

They'd do #2 so Vaan won't go, "Don't trust the ghost!" Also, as far as I know, it never shows him looking like Vaan's brother, so it honestly could have been a mistake on Vaan's part and nothing more.

You keep on saying the plot was paced incredibly slowly. How? I honestly can't recall the plot ever doing any dicking around. The worst it got was a single dungeon in the entire game where you had to rescue Penelo. It wasn't even a long dungeon. The game isn't perfect, and it's far from my favorite jRPG, but I don't really recall any "Let's spend hours and hours doing something completely fucking irrelevant!" moments.

[bluestarultor]

It's not that they did anything truly irrelevant, but that I felt I wasn't really going anywhere or learning anything quickly enough. There were a lot of conversations to establish the character of the characters, but they often seemed unnecessary or unnecessarily long, and there are frankly a good deal of them. Every segment was bookended by conversations, and while they weren't horribly voiced, maybe it's the fact that they WERE voiced that made them take so long in my opinion. I'm a crazy fast reader, so if put into text, all the conversations might have taken me maybe a minute to get through reading, but took five to listen through.

Maybe that's not the fault of the game, but it certainly took up more time than I was comfortable with.

[Regulus Tera]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1U_0EoWkIE&feature=email

FORTRESS is the codename of an official, but currently unannounced sequel to FINAL FANTASY XII.

It is an action game set some time after the events of FINAL FANTASY XII: REVENANT WINGS, and is intended for the PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 and Windows platforms.

The project was originally developed by GRIN and supervised by Square Enix, but issues between the two companies led to GRIN going bankrupt and Square Enix reclaiming the project from them.

The project has not been officially announced yet, but its existence is known due to information leaked by former members of the development team and sources in the video game industry.

The Fortress project is still supported by Square Enix and in development at a currently undisclosed studio -- possibly Eidos Montreal, Square Enix's main Western branch.

I know it's only a tech demo, but it doesn't look anything like FFXII, artistically speaking. :/

[Kim]

This game spends too much time giving the characters depth.

This, sir, is crazy talk. I'd actually argue it doesn't spend enough time doing this.

FFXII Sequel

God-fucking-dammit.

[Regulus Tera]

God-fucking-dammit.

Before you start getting aroused, a reminder: No Matsuno.

[Kim]

Before you start getting aroused, a reminder: No Matsuno.

That's why the goddammit, because I know it's going to make me furious with the heat of a thousand suns. Not that I would have any faith in Squeenix to let him have his way with the game even if he were still there.

[bluestarultor]

This, sir, is crazy talk. I'd actually argue it doesn't spend enough time doing this.

Okay, a couple examples.

Vayne: "Wow, you screwed something up at my fete, but just to show I'm really a snake in the grass, I'm going to be really nice."

Penelo: "I'm going to join you, but not before I spend five minutes making it clear I know you're up to something in as roundabout way as possible."

Vaan: "Wow, Fran, that makes you how old?"
Everyone: "Vaan, grow up."


Granted, the last one is probably from my brother's playthrough (memory fades), but it still stands. It wouldn't be so bad if Vayne DIDN'T devote all his screen time to the exact same thing, for one. But the conversations are slow and usually focus on piddly shit, with only a few of them revealing actual details into the characters' lives and motivations. I don't come into an RPG to hear idle conversation; I can do that in real life.

Maybe that's why you feel they weren't developed enough, because it certainly wasn't for a lack of conversations. Just a lack of anything actually being said in them.

[Kim]

Okay, a couple examples.

Vayne: "Wow, you screwed something up at my fete, but just to show I'm really a snake in the grass, I'm going to be really nice."

Penelo: "I'm going to join you, but not before I spend five minutes making it clear I know you're up to something in as roundabout way as possible."

Vaan: "Wow, Fran, that makes you how old?"
Everyone: "Vaan, grow up."


Granted, the last one is probably from my brother's playthrough (memory fades), but it still stands. It wouldn't be so bad if Vayne DIDN'T devote all his screen time to the exact same thing, for one. But the conversations are slow and usually focus on piddly shit, with only a few of them revealing actual details into the characters' lives and motivations. I don't come into an RPG to hear idle conversation; I can do that in real life.

Because this is the first time that a Final Fantasy game has done this.

"HA! HA! HA!"

I don't know what you're talking about about Vayne though. He was almost always conspiring or expositioning so far as I can recall.

Of course, maybe I was just glad that the characters had actual personalities and that those shone through during the cutscenes, rather than every line being a poorly delivered PLOT DUMP.

[bluestarultor]

I'm not going to argue further. We've already agreed to disagree on the game and I really can't justify filling the thread with it indefinitely.


P.S. If you were referencing the laughing scene in X, I think most people miss the whole point of it, the point being that neither of them is really happy, but they're forcing themselves to put on a happy face in the most forced and obvious way possible, and it ends up being so silly they can't help but laugh at themselves.

Hell, Wakka even approaches them thinking they've gone crazy.

[Donomni]

Oh, god. Went after Enkelados yesterday, and had to fight off Bull Croc and Aeros, too.

Was fucking insane for a bit... good thing Larsa was hanging around again, or I probably woulda lost epically.

Now I have to go to Mt. Bur-Omisace. Whee?

[greed]

Oh, god. Went after Enkelados yesterday, and had to fight off Bull Croc and Aeros, too.

Was fucking insane for a bit... good thing Larsa was hanging around again, or I probably woulda lost epically.

Now I have to go to Mt. Bur-Omisace. Whee?

Whee. Mt Bur-Omisace is pretty great. There is PLOT. And fanservice for FFTA fans. 3D Nu Mou. And after the Mountain you get the big old trek, which while low in plot is where the game opens up. Also you get probably prettiest environments on the PS2 outside of Okami (Phon Coast and The Feywood).

Also when I said the RNG method earlier I was assuming you were going guideless like I usually do when I play through a game the first time. So I was saying you hadn't missed it completely(like I did) if you didn't know.

[Ryong]

About Marks: Man, I was glad it didn't require completing lower-ranked marks to open up higher ranked ones, otherwise I'd have taken quite a while longer to fight Gilgamesh. And Donomni, if you're up to a challenge get the Trickster elite mark, I believe it's pretty hard if you get it as soon as you get to Bur-Omisace. Although I'm not sure if it opens up at the same time, but it's either already okay or very soon.

Vaan: "Wow, Fran, that makes you how old?"
Everyone: "Vaan, grow up."

...I'd really like to know that, actually. I understand why everyone gets mad, but I actually wanted to know.

Also you get probably prettiest environments on the PS2 outside of Okami (Phon Coast and The Feywood).

Yeah, no, I think that first one is probably the best-looking place in every PS2 game I've ever played. It's just beautiful.

[Donomni]

Mt. Bur-Omisace: Done. Dead Judge and all.

Killed a few more marks, now just farming a bit to afford more gear before pushing on towards the next plot-place.

[Nique]

UGGGGHHH. Thank you very much NPF for reminding me to play this game again. I have a save file on the airship right before a boss fight and frankly I am not looking forward to it.

[greed]

Which boss? Was it the mandragoras? They were the only boss that really annoyed me. Stalled my playthrough by at least a couple of months cause I got bored and went off to play something else (Okami among other things I think).

[Donomni]

ZODIAC SPEAAAAAR

And plot-wise, I'm only on the Phon Coast for the first time.

I do believe I'm insane.