The escapist!

[Geminex]

For all your escapist discussions, from whether those guys doing unskippable are gay to the quality or lack thereof of Yahtzee's latest review. Because dammit, I know that people know it, and it totally deserves to be discussed.

Well, really, Yahtzee needs to be discussed, everything else on that site is more a sort of tag-along.

Also, fuck game dogs, it's just a ripoff of VGcats. Also it sucks.

[Regulus Tera]

I used to like Yahtzee until he dissed on the games I liked.

Also, fuck game dogs, it's just a ripoff of VGcats. Also it sucks.

This sentence seems to imply that VGCats doesn't suck.

[bluestarultor]

Well, lemme first get in that Loading Ready Run is coming to the Escapist now, which I have to say is surprising in that it took that long, given that it's the team behind ENN.


Edit: @ RT: Yahtzee is at least generally honest in his reviews, as scathing as he can be. The only one I was disappointed in was his AC2 review, in that by spending the full second half ragging on minor issues and not giving an explicit recommendation at the end it took me several watchings to realize that he'd actually said it was in any way good, which he basically did for the first half before tearing in, which is what was confusing, because he usually backtracks at the end to say if it was and he instead dropped it in in the middle somewhere.

[01d55]

This sentence seems to imply that VGCats doesn't suck.

Actually VGC improved a whole lot recently.

[Geminex]

Yeah, ENN is good. The opening credits are different each time.

And yeah, VGcats could be a lot worse. The comics are bad sometimes, but really amusing most of the time. If you disagree, talk to the broforce!

And I don't listen to Yahtzee with the ear of a gamer, that is, I don't care about the games. I just like to hear him say swear words into a microphone really fast.

[Regulus Tera]

Edit: @ RT: Yahtzee is at least generally honest in his reviews, as scathing as he can be. The only one I was disappointed in was his AC2 review, in that by spending the full second half ragging on minor issues and not giving an explicit recommendation at the end it took me several watchings to realize that he'd actually said it was in any way good, which he basically did for the first half before tearing in, which is what was confusing, because he usually backtracks at the end to say if it was and he instead dropped it in in the middle somewhere.

I should start colour-coding my posts for levels of seriousness.

I still dislike the prick though.

Actually VGC improved a whole lot recently.

One comic does not make a trend.

[TDK]

I find Yahtzee to be very funny, if focused on the negative aspects of games (he explains on his website or in extra punctuation a few different times how despite focusing on the negative aspects he likes more of the games he plays than you might think at first glance, etc), but he's a critic, not a reviewer, so you can't really fault him for that.

There's also the matter of taste and standards, but eh, ultimately I agree with Geminex in that's its a good deal more enjoyable if you don't watch it with the ear of a gamer.


On the escapist in general, I watch Yahtzee's reviews, and I watched unforgotten realms for a while but kind of lost interest for some reason, and now's there too many of the damn things for me to be wiling to invest the time to watch them all.

[Krylo]

I used to like Yahtzee until he dissed on the games I liked.

Yeah, but you're the guy what doesn't like Secret of Mana.

Your taste in games is pretty terrible.


Also, I pretty much agreed with every complaint he had, which is pretty rare, about Saboteur--even though I liked the game. I mostly just liked it because it was like playing mercenaries, except instead of a bunch of bullshit political intrigue and having to take people alive and like a million factions to worry about, it was just, "Here's a mission--go kill nazis," over and over.

That and, "Not so easy when it's not defenseless women and children, is it!?"

[Premmy]

I actually like the articles in the magazine itself, I dig Yahtzee. They ran There will be Brawl, which I dig, so I can say I generally like the Escapist.

[Mirai Gen]

Some of the most worthwhile on the site are ENN and Unskippable, because the LRR guys are hilarious, and now they have LRR on Escapist, Yahtzee of course, and Movie Bob (though he's more "movie" and not enough "critic") still is pretty funny.

The articles are pretty good too, I did like seeing Monte Cook do some DND retrospectives and Shamus Young is pretty fun to read. Extra Punctuation is the nice bit of after-the-fact that Yahtzee needs to explain his perspective.

I don't like their reviews much, the written ones are okay but frequently their video suppliments are like they got their reviewer, put a mic in front of them, and said, "Read a paragraph from your review." The woman who did Splosion Man made my ears go to sleep, followed quickly by the rest of me.

Game Dogs sounded pretty awful in theory (as if it wasn't obvious enough that it's just Normal Gaming Situations With Anthropomorphs, Haha, Whee).
I still dislike the prick though.
Wow, it's like a total reversal suddenly. I love it and RT hates it. This is bizarro universe.

[synkr0nized]

If you can't recognize the faults or humor in criticizing games you like, then I guess you need to lighten up? I think he's pretty funny, too, but that doesn't mean I agree with most of his comments.

Anyway, why does he need discussed? He's not new, and there's not a whole lot to say...

[Osterbaum]

Zero Punctuation for the win!

[Geminex]

Anyway, why does he need discussed? He's not new, and there's not a whole lot to say...

Technically there's something new every week. And besides, I like hearing what people whose intellect I respect think of him, rather than the people on Escapist comment threads. Besides besides, this is for discussing all of the stuff escapist is doing, including articles which we may or may not agree with.

Though admittedly the rest of the stuff on that site may be more than tag-alongs.

[synkr0nized]

The rest of the site is pretty dumb.
But, in fairness, I don't care much for "gaming news" sites or whatever they are, anyway.

[Osterbaum]

Not all else on the site is dumb, in my opinion. I watch Movie-Bob and have somewhat enjoyed There Will Be Brawl as well.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I used to watch ZPunctuation every week and it was funny but somewhere along the line he lost his touch and his originality and started making the same jokes every week to the point where if I had played the game I could predict the gist of his reviews beforehand- thus no funny.
Rest of site has nothing that I've found to be any good.

[Kim]

Yahtzee isn't nearly as funny as he was when he began. I think SMB's right, and he just got kind of stale. He's still worth watching for a cheap laugh, but it's all kinda meh lately. I also avoid his reviews if I know the game has a lot of difficulty, because I know he'll find some way to bitch about it.

[Azisien]

I used to watch ZPunctuation every week and it was funny but somewhere along the line he lost his touch and his originality and started making the same jokes every week to the point where if I had played the game I could predict the gist of his reviews beforehand- thus no funny.
Rest of site has nothing that I've found to be any good.

I am inclined to agree. I still tune in every week, roughly, but it's much less "hoshit it's wednesday afternoon!" than it used to be.

Wondering if its just the games themselves being boring and predictable though.

[Mirai Gen]

But, in fairness, I don't care much for "gaming news" sites or whatever they are, anyway.
Gaming news sites? I don't know if you'd call the Escapist that - the only 'news' segment there is practically rolls in satire every week. It's mostly an entertainment channel with a slew of articles and the occasional review.

I mean you're fine in not liking it but I feel that comparing it to 1up or Kotaku (Which you may or may not be doing) is a bit unfair to it.

[bluestarultor]

Yahtzee isn't nearly as funny as he was when he began. I think SMB's right, and he just got kind of stale. He's still worth watching for a cheap laugh, but it's all kinda meh lately. I also avoid his reviews if I know the game has a lot of difficulty, because I know he'll find some way to bitch about it.

You haven't seen the limerick review (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/916-Wolfenstein), have you? He does vary it up to keep things interesting.


Edit: Also: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1340-Holiday-2009

[synkr0nized]

@Mirai -- hence the quotes. They have blogs/articles and reviews and things like that, so it kind of works. I mean clearly their focus is on entertainment and not just straight news and commentary, so it's not like sitting around reading Kotaku or IGN all day.


@NonCon -- My intent is not to sound like I am defending Yahtzee from your opinion, but I am amused at your complaint of him "bitching" when you run a game review site with the tagline "We hate the games you like. That's how we know we're right."

[Premmy]

Gaming news sites? I don't know if you'd call the Escapist that - the only 'news' segment there is practically rolls in satire every week. It's mostly an entertainment channel with a slew of articles and the occasional review.

I mean you're fine in not liking it but I feel that comparing it to 1up or Kotaku (Which you may or may not be doing) is a bit unfair to it.

The Escapist has long been a news magazine/ Discussion site, they put up a series of text articles based on a different topic each month. They're very good. You should read them.

[Mirai Gen]

Yeah I know about their articles - I even said they have them. They're just of a completely different cut from most mainstream 'news' sites since their manner is pretty laid-back.
@Mirai -- hence the quotes. They have blogs/articles and reviews and things like that, so it kind of works.
Ah okay, fair enough. I wasn't sure if you were comparing it to them or not, which is why I was kind of cautious.
@NonCon -- My intent is not to sound like I am defending Yahtzee from your opinion, but I am amused at your complaint of him "bitching" when you run a game review site with the tagline "We hate the games you like. That's how we know we're right."
As far as myself on GPD, I'm completely self-aware that bitching is pretty much all I ever do. It's a fun time though.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

I admit I don't follow Yahtzee much anymore. It might be because I'm having a harder time following what the man is saying (either he's faster, or its because I've lost interest in hearing everything he says). Or its because he's become a prick who just can't be bothered to say anything good about a game.

The reviews don't seem to be about what games are really good & which ones are awful, its just about him pointing out every little nitpick. And maybe its just because I've tired of his style, but his comments don't even seem all that clever anymore (of course, not being able to follow his quick speech doesn't help).

Maybe its just me, but his reviews are too much shtick, and not enough review.

SWB

[Kim]

@NonCon -- My intent is not to sound like I am defending Yahtzee from your opinion, but I am amused at your complaint of him "bitching" when you run a game review site with the tagline "We hate the games you like. That's how we know we're right."

My complaint isn't so much the bitching in and of itself, because that's kind of the point of Yahtzee, as that I think "This game is too hard. NES difficulty is obsolete." is a really stupid opinion. Even then, I could probably ignore it as Yahtzee just being dumb or whatever, but then he goes into his Mario and Luigi 3 review with a bit about "Back in my day games were hard and you're all a bunch of wimps." which is not only incorrect, as Krylo pointed out in the other thread, but a statement that seems fairly hypocritical to me. As such, any time I know he's going to bitch about the difficulty is some way, shape, or form, I try to avoid the review, because I'm sure I'll not only disagree, but be extremely irked about how it conflicts with stuff he's said before. It may be a weird nitpick, though.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

You guys are all way overthinking this. Yahtzee complains about games. Doesn't matter if it's a steaming pile of a game or the most fantastic thing ever to grace the earth, he's going to complain about it. Even if he likes it he'll find faults, unless it's Pyschonauts or Portal. Whether it's hard, easy, a joy to play or a hellish descent into frustration, whether it has the tiniest of real faults to split hairs over, or gaping holes in plot, gameplay mechanics or graphical quality, he will complain about it.

It's called taking the piss, whether he has to be a hypocrit or not the only reason he's doing the reviews is to take the piss and complain, whether his complaints are justified or not. It's harmless, biased, hypocritical, fun that has no real meaning at the end of the day.

So just lighten up, don't take anything he says seriously. He's ragged on enough of my own favourite games before now and while I don't agree with the things he says it doesn't mean I still can't laugh along with it.

And if you don't find it funny and his complaints do get on your nerves, then don't watch his videos. Simple as that.

[Regulus Tera]

Yeah, but you're the guy what doesn't like Secret of Mana.

Your taste in games is pretty terrible.

Being the only sane voice of reason in this world of darkest powers is a disheartening endeavour at time. :(

[bluestarultor]

You know, I think Yahtzee himself said that he's a critic on several occasions. That's what he does is criticize, and he does it in a humorous way. He also tosses in the merits of a game amongst the bile and frankly, I consider him much more reliable than any of the other reviewers on the site, who all seem too keen on polishing the apple unless there's no possible way they can justify it. Or at least that's how it is in their video "supplements." I've been going through them out of sheer boredom today, and it's really starting to irk me with all the "this game adds nothing to gaming or its own series, but that's vaguely okay somehow" or "well, the game sucks, but listen to that soundtrack. Mmmmmm, soundtrack..." bull that really makes it all sound very castrated and wimpy, like they're afraid of getting their houses burned down. Yahtzee doesn't pussyfoot around like that.


Edit: Jordan Deam is probably the best non-Yahtzee reviewer in terms of honesty. The editor seems way too keen on spinning games to make even the flaws sound good, while the only female of the bunch seems to like everything unless it's outright sexist, and while she's not terrible, I feel like I have to take what she says with a grain of salt.

[Mirai Gen]

Being the only sane voice of reason in this world of darkest powers is a disheartening endeavour at time. :(

That sure sounds like something Yahtzee would say.

[Osterbaum]

I used to watch ZPunctuation every week and it was funny but somewhere along the line he lost his touch and his originality...
Just wanting to point out, that this is not an unusual thing to hear about any series that's been going on for a relatively longer period of time.

[Geminex]

Only Yahtzee's next sentence would be "But I have YOUR MUM to cheer me up, so it's allright!"

[Amake]

I figure the limerick review was ZP's swan song. Ultimately, its allure was mostly based on novelty, doomed to wear off.

Unskippable is still hilarious though. Has it been "the fifth time I died" yet? Boy I like running gags. "Ow, my favorite organs" has become a staple expression in my circles. Probably time for an archive trawl soon. Are they gay? Probably. But they're at least five years from realizing it.

PS. VC Cats is saintly, and complaining about anything other than the lack of updates is blasphemy. :o

[Regulus Tera]

That sure sounds like something Yahtzee would say.

dude wtf is wrong with you (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnrXiaPVeHY)

okay yeah i worded it way obtusely

[Meister]

Just wanting to point out, that this is not an unusual thing to hear about any series that's been going on for a relatively longer period of time.
Yeah. Not saying Yahtzee has or hasn't lost his originality because I don't care enough to form an opinion, but it's only natural that things seem more original the newer they are, or simply to someone who has just discovered them. (So in the sense that ZP has been around long enough to simply not be something new anymore, it's definitely lost some originality.)

Like, say we're back in 2002: oh wow someone's making comics with sprites! How did no one think of that before?! This is amazing! And 2010: oh, 8-Bit Theater, yeah, that's a pretty good comic. Especially for a sprite comic. Kinda lost its originality though.

[Aerozord]

Have to agree with Hawk, Yahtzee does not critique, he just rants and raves and flings his poo. For him to be a critic he'd have to be impartial, but its obvious these are his personal opinions. Fighting games and RTSs will always be hated by him simply for being what they are because he does not like the genre. I find his reviews entertaining but I'd never use them as a basis for if a game is good or not.

Escapist to the Movies is on the other end of the spectrum and is much more an analasis of the movies quality and entertainment value. 2012 for example he spends most of it explaining that, while its just disaster-porn its also very well made disaster-porn.

Site over all I dont really even bother with. The forums are just horrible, and while I do find the legit reviews informative they are no better then just about anywhere else. Nice site to go to a few times a week, but I spend alot more of my time on NPF then I do at the Escapist.

[bluestarultor]

Aero, there is no physical way anyone can be truly impartial. Everyone has a bias. Anyone telling you otherwise is either lying or a robot.

Also, I think at some point he said that he might actually LIKE RTS, but that was after his first review of one, so it may have changed.

Also also, how many fighting games has he actually reviewed in comparison to shooters?

Yahtzee doesn't spend his time reviewing things he's not equipped to review in most cases. And when he does, he points it out. He tears into games, sure, but if they have positive merits, he talks about those, too.

[Osterbaum]

I have no illusions of what Yahtzee is or isn't, frankly I do not care. I simply like him, because I find his poo flinging/critique funny and entertaining. It really doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Also also, how many fighting games has he actually reviewed in comparison to shooters?

None, because he hates them, because he's biased, like I said before. He's not trying to review games, he's just making fun of them for the sake of a joke.

Why are we even still discussing this again?

[01d55]

Fighting games and RTSs will always be hated by him simply for being what they are because he does not like the genre. I find his reviews entertaining but I'd never use them as a basis for if a game is good or not.

You know that because he basically says so when he reviewed those games. That's far more honest than a reviewer who conceals his personal views in the interest of "objectivity." It's not like he lies about the content of games from genres he doesn't like to make them look worse.

"Journalistic objectivity" is a big part of why the news establishment is so useless.

[bluestarultor]

None, because he hates them, because he's biased, like I said before. He's not trying to review games, he's just making fun of them for the sake of a joke.

Why are we even still discussing this again?

Really? I count two. Brawl and Soul Calibur.

See, it's this kind of thing that was what made me speak up again, because it's sounding like people really aren't paying attention to what he has to say and just spewing their own bias based on misinformed generalizations.

Yes, he's the Simon Cowel of game reviews, but he still actually, you know, says stuff about every game, good and bad. As much as he hates JRPGs, he gave TWEWY a good review. As much as he loves Silent Hill 2, he came right out and said what was wrong with it. I really don't see how that's limiting himself to spending five minutes going, "HURR HURR THIS GAME SUCKS!"

[Bells]

Y'know, you guys should do a follow up to ZP Reviews. He usually presses his point and answer some responses to his videos a few days after it.

Yeah, he rants and he pouts on everything, it's his thing. But he does has his share of praises. It's not like hie is "Angry Video Game Nerd With Flashy Accent", they guy actually does analyze the game. But his review style is always to shed a bad light on the worst parts of a game.

On the other Hand, Unskipable keeps it fresh and fun to watch everytime. They have great pacing, and it's just an overall delight to watch.

[Geminex]

I'm actually not that in love with unskippable. The running gags aren't bad, but their sarcasm fails quite frequently. And occasionally the comments and wacky "misunderstandings" are just groan-worthy. Still good to watch, though.

[Mirai Gen]

Like, say we're back in 2002: oh wow someone's making comics with sprites! How did no one think of that before?! This is amazing! And 2010: oh, 8-Bit Theater, yeah, that's a pretty good comic. Especially for a sprite comic. Kinda lost its originality though.

This is pretty much entirely why there's been like a "Is it me or is 8-bit really disappointing lately?" thread every few months.

[Amake]

Clearly a quality work needs to be entirely without novelty value so that no one starts thinking it's not as good as it used to be when they get used to it.

[Meister]

Hence comic book movies.