MASS EFFECT TWO: GIVE GARRUS A HUG [Archive] - Page 2

Raiden

02-09-2010, 06:24 PM

Yeah, Krogo... Grunt... Grunt's not a leader, man. You shouldn't be putting him in charge of anything, ever.

Seriously, just imagine him leading.

"Commander, we're pinned down! We need a strategy!"
"Shoot at the guys aiming at you. Stupid."

"Shepard! This is Grunt! The battle is GLORIOUS!"

"Should we give them cover fire?"
"No. If they are strong they shall make it. If they are weak it is better they die here in glorious battle."

He is not a strategic person.

Hell, I wouldn't even trust him to escort the survivors. He'd probably try to pick fights with every collector group along the way and call the crew "Weak fleshy things" for dying.

Again, the whole thing is about actually talking to your squad mates and remembering what they tell you.

After you get Grunt's loyalty, he out and out says that all he cares about is tearing things apart, and it's your job as his Battlemaster to focus him and command him. He's a Grunt. A footsoldier. He's not meant to lead anyone, though he always manages to survive escorting people around.

Honestly, my best combination I've found so far is:
Vents - Legion
1st Fire Team - Garrus
Barrier - Jack
2nd Fire Team - Miranda (since Jack's doing the barrier, there isn't anyone who'll not listen to her)
Escort - Mordin
Final Squad - Thane/Grunt

Krylo

02-09-2010, 06:26 PM

What works, for definite sure. Some others may as well:

Vents: Legion or Tali. Mordin has had mixed reports on whether he works.
Fire Team (both): Miranda, Garus, or Jacob.
Barrier: Samara/Morinth or Jack.
Escort: Anyone with maxed loyalty.

Raiden

02-09-2010, 06:29 PM

Yeah, those tend to be the best choices. Anyone else will usually end up with a rocket to the face.

Though sometimes I want to fail at the suicide mission because they have a scripted death for every squad member at every choice, and Mordin has some of the best ones.

"Tell them...that I...held the line..."

Dauntasa

02-09-2010, 07:05 PM

So, anyone know how I can get Miranda, and only Miranda, killed?

Krylo

02-09-2010, 07:05 PM

Put her in the tube.

Edit: This is my new crusade. (http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/989451/1#1104371)

Note, What is Love quote comes from Baby Bear. He gave me permission to use it to further my cause.

Funka Genocide

02-09-2010, 08:02 PM

the sarcasm filters on that other forum are nowhere near as highly developed as they are here.

Dauntasa

02-09-2010, 09:13 PM

Romancing Legion would mean that Shepard is technically fucking thousands of people at once. I'm all for it.

Mirai Gen

02-09-2010, 09:29 PM

I honestly don't know why Mordin died and it's making me angry.

Krylo

02-09-2010, 09:30 PM

It's because you weren't good enough.

Mirai Gen

02-09-2010, 09:36 PM

But I tried.

I tried so hard Krylo :(

Aerozord

02-09-2010, 09:38 PM

I'd actually love it if, your level, was the sole deciding factor of who lives and who dies.

honestly saw no point in leveling in this game as enemies level with you

Azisien

02-09-2010, 09:44 PM

Scaling is not 1:1 that's incorrect. I had a lot more difficulty at the start of the game, but I was butchering by the time I was level 15+.

So there may be scaling for health/armor/shields but even so, its not taking into account your skill boosts, which can be pretty high.

CABAL49

02-09-2010, 10:26 PM

It may just be me, but the Collectors themselves seem easier on Insanity.

Krylo

02-09-2010, 10:42 PM

I'd actually love it if, your level, was the sole deciding factor of who lives and who dies.

honestly saw no point in leveling in this game as enemies level with you

Scaling is not 1:1 that's incorrect. I had a lot more difficulty at the start of the game, but I was butchering by the time I was level 15+.

So there may be scaling for health/armor/shields but even so, its not taking into account your skill boosts, which can be pretty high.

In addition to this: You can't just 'level' in this game. You don't get exp per kill. You get a set amount at the end of each mission/side quest, and leveling is just one reason to do side quests--the others being resources you don't have to mine for, money (which is fucking tight in this game), finding more shit to shoot at, and just plain old story expansion.

stefan

02-09-2010, 11:59 PM

money (which is fucking tight in this game)

perhaps I'm not buying the right stuff in this game, but I'm sitting on over half a million credits and can't think of what to spend them on.

also, while resource gathering and the upgrade lab are massive improvements over the ME1 inventory clusterfuck, I think what ME3 needs to implement is some kind of method of selling and buying resources. Its kind of annoying when I have 40k units of palladium I know I'll never use when All I want is some iridium to make the nuke gun, or element zero to give shepard a loyalty power.

Mirai Gen

02-10-2010, 12:08 AM

Make sure you check all the shops - you can find schematics for a lot of stuff.

And, you know, model starships and fish.

bluestarultor

02-10-2010, 12:24 AM

Make sure you check all the shops - you can find schematics for a lot of stuff.

And, you know, model starships and fish.

And a space hampster.

Sorry, watching Escapist reviews (not Yahtzee). The lady on the not-Yahtzee team tends to mention that kind of stuff.

Mirai Gen

02-10-2010, 12:25 AM

I'm convinced that a Mass Effect field warps that into nothingness, taking the space hamster and sending it to Toril.

Aerozord

02-10-2010, 01:15 AM

perhaps I'm not buying the right stuff in this game, but I'm sitting on over half a million credits and can't think of what to spend them on.

also, while resource gathering and the upgrade lab are massive improvements over the ME1 inventory clusterfuck, I think what ME3 needs to implement is some kind of method of selling and buying resources. Its kind of annoying when I have 40k units of palladium I know I'll never use when All I want is some iridium to make the nuke gun, or element zero to give shepard a loyalty power.

only 40k? I bought everything short of the med-bay upgrade and have over 70k and I pass stuff up. That element is WAY too common.

and dont get that nuke-gun, its worthless. You cant even fire it until you find additional ammo on missions, and you need alot of it

DFM

02-10-2010, 01:17 AM

I'm convinced that a Mass Effect field warps that into nothingness, taking the space hamster and sending it to Toril.

He is nowhere near the size of a miniature giant.

Edit: Get the nuke gun for those fucking flying husk crabs that shoot fucking streams of lasers at you all the time and come up and sit on your fucking head no matter where you are and kill everyone.

Krylo

02-10-2010, 01:42 AM

perhaps I'm not buying the right stuff in this game, but I'm sitting on over half a million credits and can't think of what to spend them on.

also, while resource gathering and the upgrade lab are massive improvements over the ME1 inventory clusterfuck, I think what ME3 needs to implement is some kind of method of selling and buying resources. Its kind of annoying when I have 40k units of palladium I know I'll never use when All I want is some iridium to make the nuke gun, or element zero to give shepard a loyalty power.

A single heavy skin weave upgrade runs you 75000 assuming you got the discount.

Weapon upgrades run you about 50000.

Armor pieces run about 2000.

You could spend all of that in a single trip to the Citadel if you bothered shopping. You might have like 50k left over to go buy a single upgrade on Illium or Tuchanka or something.

Dauntasa

02-10-2010, 02:04 AM

And money gets quite a bit rarer near the end of the game. You can only get it from Laptops and Safes and such, and eventually you run out of places to find them.

stefan

02-10-2010, 02:15 AM

only 40k? I bought everything short of the med-bay upgrade and have over 70k and I pass stuff up. That element is WAY too common.

which is ironic since palladium is apparently hilariously rare in the real world.

Osterbaum

02-10-2010, 03:31 AM

Make sure you check all the shops - you can find schematics for a lot of stuff.

And, you know, model starships and fish.
God damn is it anoying to have to feed your fish. And how often do you need to feed them anyway? I fed them every time I went up to the cabin, but still they kept dying. Also it would've been cool to have a few more types of fish.

The ship models were pretty cool though. What were they again? Normandy SR1, Normandy SR2, Turian cruiser, Alliance cruiser, Destiny's Ascencion, Geth dropship/frigate/cruiser (seriosly, which one is it? You see them dropping Geth all over the place, they seem about the size of a frigate and in the battle of the citadel they take on cruisers as equals basically), that 'all around freighter' -design (the interior of which is much less boring and less stupid in ME2 than in ME1), Sovereign, Kodak shuttle and Quarian science ship. What else?

Kerensky287

02-10-2010, 04:16 AM

So, a friend of mine revealed a startling bit of information to me the other day.

At some point when you speak to Legion, he tells you that the Geth consider the whole Quarian thing to be more of an argument than the war the Quarians treat it as. In fact, the Geth are apparently maintaining the planet properly in anticipation of their return. I assume this refers to Legion's faction, and not the heretics - evil geth seem all too happy to kill Quarians whenever possible. If this is true, it puts a whole new spin on the Quarian/Geth relationship.

Even before this though, I kinda got the feeling that the Quarians were in the wrong here. I mean, yes, there's a feeling in the galaxy that all AIs are evil for whatever reason... but I got the feeling that this was a precedent set mostly by the Geth flipping out. Talking to Tali made me realize that really, the Geth were just defending themselves - when they were first produced and they linked enough intelligences together to become sentient, they didn't question what they were there to do. They just asked questions about their own existence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_8yPap-k_s) and the Quarians responded by systematically dismantling them. All things considered, the Geth response was entirely justified, and if the spoilered information is true, they might really make the Quarians look like assholes in the near future.

I mean yeah, you can screw Tali in this game, but who knows? Maybe this whole Legion romance thing will get off the ground and in ME3 you earn his/their love by doing a war crime tribunal or something against the Quarians.

"Shepard-Commander... No one has ever done such a thing for us. 963 of our processes are feeling more open-minded about the concept of attempting interface with an organic creature. The rest of our processes remain incredulous that such an event could occur. Does Shepard-Commander have any ideas?"

Melfice

02-10-2010, 04:49 AM

God damn is it anoying to have to feed your fish. And how often do you need to feed them anyway? I fed them every time I went up to the cabin, but still they kept dying. Also it would've been cool to have a few more types of fish.

I think you got all the ships.

Also, if you flirt enough with Kelly to the point where you invite her for a dinner, she'll offer to feed your fish for you.

This doesn't interfere with any other romancing you're doing, as long as you don't take it any further (if there's even a further to go to...).

Marc v4.0

02-10-2010, 06:04 AM

Also, if you flirt enough with Kelly to the point where you invite her for a dinner, she'll offer to feed your fish for you.

"offer" and "does" are two different words and little miss perky bitch let my fish die.

Melfice

02-10-2010, 10:12 AM

"offer" and "does" are two different words and little miss perky bitch let my fish die.

What?
She's never done that for me. Err, that is, letting them die.

Did you have the dinner with her, and said that you enjoyed it? Or did you answer negatively? I have no idea if that even affects things.
I got Kelly up for dinner, and then went on my merry way, getting it on with Tali.

A quick search on various forums shows me that not a lot of people have that problem, so... I dunno.

EDIT: Also, found on GameFAQs, originated from the official forums: Regarding end-game:
"Mordin's death is not a glitch or bug. I believe that when people are surprised with Mordin's death, it's during the "Hold the Line" time where you leave crew behind as you and two squad mates move onward. Tech had their moment in the sun with the tunnel infiltration. A biotic is key for the protective bubble. The Hold the Line sequence is time for your soldier types to do their best.

Basically you want your best DEFENDERS to hold the line. Don't think about offensive solo strikers. Think about the guys that can dig down and hold a position with moxie. You want them to hold the line.

Under the hood, each character has a "hole the line" score, which gets a bonus if the character is loyal. Characters like Mordin, Jack and Tali are squishy and not exoeruenced with bunkering down and holding out for an extended period of time. Characters like Grunt and Zaeed are tanks who thrive on this type of work. The score is tallied for all the team members that are holding the line, and the number of survivors are calculated. If people are to die, the non-loyals squishies go first through the list to the loyal tanks. Alas, I think Mordin is at the head of the death list. Some characters can't survive without help even if they are loyal. Others can survive even if not loyal.

Here are some examples for the group holding the line:
Loyal Mordin by himself: He can't hold the line by himself. He dies.
Non-loyal Grunt by himself: Grunt lives. He hunkers down and gets the job done, and doesn't have to worry about helping any one else.
Loyal Mordin and non-Loyal Grunt: Grunt dies, but Mordin lives. Grunt is able to hold the line but goofs up helping Mordin... he was just too aggressive without his right of passage.
Loyal Mordin and Loyal Grunt: They both live.

Note it is possible to get non-loyal henchmen to survive through the end game with the proper group holding the line.

So what is a good strategy? Send back a loyal squishy with the crew, like Mordin or Tali. Leave your defensive bad asses to hold the line (hmmm, Garrus defended a base all by himself to an extended period of time....) and take your loyal offensive favorites with you to the end.

As for saving Kelly and the crew, you just need to make sure you go through the Omega-4 relay right after the crew is taken, and make sure you send a loyal squad mate back as an escort."

Source (http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/1117936&lf=8)

I think this is pretty much what Krylo mentioned earlier in the thread, but here you got Word of God.

Aerozord

02-10-2010, 05:00 PM

Wait, you have to feed the fish?! I thought they were just, I dont know, non-interactive. *checks game* THEY ARE ALL DEAD. I mean we can create artificial gravity, universal translators, psionic powers, sentient AI, but we cant make an automated feeder for my fish?

Incase anyone was worried, if you didn't SHEPARD PUNCH the reporter in the first game you get another chance, complete with "wish I did that the first time"

Osterbaum

02-10-2010, 05:04 PM

Azisien

02-10-2010, 05:09 PM

You know what's one of the things I'd like to see in ME3? Some sort of action / mission / assignment in our solar system, Sol. It doesn't have to be Earth, but what about Luna or Mars? Heck, even Gagarin Station, Titan or something similar would satisfy me.

EDIT: I just embarrassed the reporter with my paragon conversation options in both games. It was sort of more fun to just make her look like an ass instead of punching.

Well Luna was a mission in the first game, so I doubt it'll be in the third. But its toooooooootally open for some Local Cluster action when the Reaper-shit hits the fan in the third game.

Osterbaum

02-10-2010, 05:50 PM

Yeah, but the Luna mission in ME1 was as boring and unimaginative as sidequests in RPG's get. Besides, I meant more along the lines of seeing some actual civilazation, like the supposed capital of Luna, Armstrong, or Lowell City in Mars.

Dauntasa

02-10-2010, 05:57 PM

Why not Earth? I mean, The Reapers are coming, and boy are they pissed at Humanity. Why not have a big climactic showdown on Earth? Seems like they'd want to attack it right away, after all.

Funka Genocide

02-10-2010, 06:00 PM

I like how all of you fuckers are on your third playthrough and I'm not even halfway through my first.

DFM

02-10-2010, 06:05 PM

Fourth starting Fifth, MoFucker.

Mirai Gen

02-10-2010, 06:13 PM

Second. You're not that far behind.

Osterbaum

02-10-2010, 06:28 PM

I don't have the tendency to play through games multiple times, atleast not in a row. Of course, I am on my fourth playthrough of ME1 now, and could be on my third playthrough of ME2 if my fucking harddrive hadn't broke.

Aerozord

02-10-2010, 08:24 PM

Mordin just made it to my "favorite NPC" slot. Shot up the moment he started singing showtunes, but what put him over the top was when he was giving me sex advice. Still not sure if he was joking or not

"single cell's much simpler. No need for alchol or mood music"

Krylo

02-10-2010, 08:53 PM

I think this is pretty much what Krylo mentioned earlier in the thread, but here you got Word of God.

Actually I just mentioned it seemed semi-random and I wasn't sure why it happened, and then said that sending them in the civilian protection team or keeping them in your team would keep them alive.

Raiden's the one who extrapolated the whole 'some people suck at holding the line' thing.

Red Fighter 1073

02-10-2010, 10:14 PM

Raiden's the one who extrapolated the whole 'some people suck at holding the line' thing.

In honor of failing miserably, here's a video of almost everyone's possible last lines (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkRxe_R6SqI) (Warning: MAJOR FINAL MISSION SPOILERS AHOY)

DFM

02-10-2010, 10:24 PM

I like Mordin's and Legion's death scenes there, they're pretty good.

Aerozord

02-10-2010, 10:35 PM

Though Legion's death at the door was, odd. I mean a robot stumbling back as it clutches its chest is almost laughably out of place

[edit] oh and for everyones enjoyment, Mordin's best scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXRHDNW_yj8)

DFM

02-10-2010, 11:05 PM

The animation was weird, I think they should have given him a unique one. I did like him being carried off by the swarm, though.

"Error. ERROR!"

Mirai Gen

02-11-2010, 01:59 AM

The falling dead at the door was the saddest, especially with how abrupt it was. Tali especially.

Osterbaum

02-11-2010, 03:13 AM

On my playthrough Garrus did actually get shot like there, but I suppose his shields held or something.

Kerensky287

02-11-2010, 04:14 AM

The animation was weird, I think they should have given him a unique one. I did like him being carried off by the swarm, though.

"Error. ERROR!"

IMO he should've been knocked the fuck back like the Geth in Mass Effect 1 after a top-level Throw.

Same lines, but he's upside-down and ragdolled.

Gregness

02-11-2010, 04:32 AM

Commander Shepard is still a jerk. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PjTuSQNLI4)

Mirai Gen

02-11-2010, 01:52 PM

On my playthrough Garrus did actually get shot like there, but I suppose his shields held or something.

IIRC the cutscene happens regardless but most of your team is tough enough to shake it off.

Engineers and Sentinels (I think) like Tali or Mordin end up being not as tough and therefore die from the hits.

G.I.R.

02-11-2010, 02:04 PM

I think, oddly enough, loyalty has an affect on their survivability. My first run through(before I reset the mission), I used Jack as my shield and she wasn't strong enough at the end and Legion got killed. Once I switched to Samara, everyone was fine, but Jack died because I used her as the Second Squad Leader/Distraction. But I think that had to do with the fact that she wasn't equipped to handle that mission.

I'll get it right on my second runthrough.

Osterbaum

02-11-2010, 02:37 PM

I don't find it odd that loyalty plays a big role. Why else would they have you running around doing loyalty missions for everyone?

Dauntasa

02-11-2010, 03:02 PM

Mirai Gen

02-11-2010, 03:40 PM

I think Jacob also works, too, but that might have been why Mordin died.

Osterbaum

02-11-2010, 04:15 PM

Jack is the worst possible squad leader. Seriously. Use Garrus, or if you love Garrus and always want him in your party(which is totally understandable) use Miranda.
Or don't use Miranda if you didn't have her loyalty, like me.

stefan

02-11-2010, 07:38 PM

Aerozord

02-11-2010, 07:52 PM

bluestarultor

02-11-2010, 08:28 PM

Man, they may as well just break down and make them anthro Earth animals.

Kind of just an, "Okay, we know you guys have humans, and you also have some non-humans, so we may as well just give in so long as we're including sex."

Krylo

02-11-2010, 08:43 PM

I think Jacob also works, too, but that might have been why Mordin died.

Jacob works perfectly.

Melfice posted a word of god on why Mordin dies, which had to do with you not leaving enough characters behind for the final fight that were good at holding position. Next time send Mordin or Tali back with the colonists (unless you want to put them both in your team, then Thane would probably be best to send back) and be sure to leave Grunt or Garrus at least to hold the door with the others.

That should fix your issue.

EDIT!

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m260/Dom5412/Wrex.png

CABAL49

02-11-2010, 10:34 PM

perhaps I'm just crazy, but I think one of the missions in ME3 should be shepard discovering a new alien race and deciding what to do with it, be it either nuke the motherfuckers, let them stay on their own, or recruit them as a human client race.

That is kinda what you do with the Rachni. If you save them in ME1, an Asari comes up to you on Illium and says that the Rachni promise to help against the Reapers. Not sure how you bang a Rachni though.

EDIT!

I knew it! I really do wonder what Quarians look like though.

Yumil

02-11-2010, 10:36 PM

Not sure how you bang a Rachni though.
Through song, of course.

Aerozord

02-11-2010, 10:48 PM

felt kinda cheated that you dont see Tali's face

stefan

02-12-2010, 12:14 AM

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m260/Dom5412/Wrex.png
.

DFM

02-12-2010, 12:25 AM

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

02-12-2010, 01:12 AM

Stefan steals my broken links.

And yeah, Jacob works but by god why would you pick him for anything (besides vent infiltration because he gets what he asks for)? I didn't even remember he was on my team until he volunteered for the suicide mission and I was like "Wait you leave the ship?"

There is the few times you're required to take him somewhere to do something.
For some reason.
Sometimes.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7125/1265589930881.jpg

Mirai Gen

02-12-2010, 01:22 AM

That was exactly why I picked Jacob for the strike team - Oh hey, you finally have a use!

bluestarultor

02-12-2010, 01:32 AM

There is the few times you're required to take him somewhere to do something.
For some reason.
Sometimes.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7125/1265589930881.jpg

Man, that only reminds me how much demand there is for a Garrus romance. On the other hand, allowing that would mean he'd have to drop off the radar in ME3 like all the romances did in ME2. 'Cause Bioware doesn't seem to much like the idea of having to deal with writing fully-fledged relationships any more than they have to. And I can't say I blame them, but it's not exactly realistic to be leaving your SO on his/her homeworld while you go gallivanting off and possibly finding a replacement. I'd at least like to keep my wife around on my ship if I were a badass space dude, even if we agreed it would potentially cause problems to both be out in the field together. Heck, it might even be beneficial to keep it that way, because then we'd both know we had someone we could trust on the opposite team.

Or, hell, give people Super Married Couple Team-Up Attacks or field bonuses or something.

Krylo

02-12-2010, 01:37 AM

Garrus is a love interest in ME2, Bluesy.

Aerozord

02-12-2010, 01:38 AM

it's not exactly realistic to be leaving your SO on his/her homeworld while you go gallivanting off and possibly finding a replacement.

why not? This is what Thane did. Granted thats also an example of why its a bad idea

bluestarultor

02-12-2010, 01:41 AM

Garrus is a love interest in ME2, Bluesy.

Is he? I guess a lot of people are happy, then. XD

Edit: 'Cause holy geez, Garrus x Wrex is the third effing Google Image Search result. :sweatdrop

Krylo

02-12-2010, 01:43 AM

Yeah, he is.

Also the reason ME1 LI's were left behind in ME2 wasn't because they wanted to avoid long term relationships, but rather because they wanted to ensure their survival into ME3, so your choice to cheat on them/stay loyal to them could carry over. And they probably had other things planned with them, too, I'm not sure.

Also to give players the option to be unfaithful.

DFM

02-12-2010, 01:45 AM

To leave Garrus behind you'd have to join something even more borderline Evil than Cerberus. Like the Shoot All Turians in the Head Coalition.

Shit even then he'd still come with you if you asked nicely because he's your goddamn bro-ho.

Krylo

02-12-2010, 01:46 AM

Yeah, he comes into the plague zone if you ask nicely.

It's hard to imagine him ever leaving you.

DFM

02-12-2010, 01:48 AM

"Anybody else getting hot, or is it just-"
*Horrible, hacking cough*

"...Well that isn't good."

Raiden

02-12-2010, 01:49 AM

Yeah, he comes into the plague zone if you ask nicely.

It's hard to imagine him ever leaving you.

Shepard: Your superiors gave you an order that they know is suicidal. You have the right to refuse.

*Garrus and Thane look at each other*

Garrus: Wait, we can do that? Since when?

Krylo

02-12-2010, 01:52 AM

Grunt's response is the best in that, or any, conversation.

Just throwing that out there.

stefan

02-12-2010, 01:56 AM

Also to give players the option to be unfaithful.

considering how bland the ME1 romances were, this was a wise choice.

Krylo

02-12-2010, 01:58 AM

considering how bland the ME1 romances were, this was a wise choice.

Any game that lets me grin like a cocky bastard and suggest a threesome when two people are yelling at me for 'cheating' and DOESN'T end with my face planted in a wall and 0 love interests, is pretty awesome in my book.

Though to be fair it'd be awesome either way, really.

Mirai Gen

02-12-2010, 01:59 AM

Grunt's response is the best in that, or any, conversation.

Just throwing that out there.

"I get it! I have a purpose now! I hate turians!"
"...I don't think I'm going to be coming down here to chat anymore."
"But...I thought you'd be happy for me!"

Krylo

02-12-2010, 02:02 AM

"Turians... you have to work the knife a bit, but I don't see the point. Heh. 'Point'. Nevermind."

DFM

02-12-2010, 02:03 AM

"Turians... you have to work the knife a bit, but I don't see the point. Heh. 'Point'. Nevermind."

Great Grunt moment, or Greatest Grunt moment?

Krylo

02-12-2010, 02:05 AM

Great Grunt moment, or Greatest Grunt moment?

Only great.

Greatest is: "I have one of a Salarian with those... things on their head, what are they called? Anyway those things on his head spread apart. Heh. I bet it caused a generation of revenge. What is that, a few weeks for them?"

BitVyper

02-12-2010, 02:20 AM

Got it for XBox. It's pretty sweet so far, but good god, the text is almost entirely unreadable at times.

DFM

02-12-2010, 02:38 AM

What text? I don't remember having trouble reading anything.

Krylo

02-12-2010, 02:45 AM

It's pretty hard to read on non-HD TVs.

Kim

02-12-2010, 04:31 AM

Solid Snake

02-12-2010, 04:42 AM

How bad is it, and where? I really want to play this game, but I'm poor as fuck and don't want to ruin myself on a fun game by squinting the entire time.

Do yourself a favor and buy ME1 first, if you can.
Half the fun of the possibility of playing ME2 stems from continuing the first game with previous decisions having immense consequences.
And half the fun of playing ME3 will be playing a continuation of the saga that began way back with your ME1 character.

Marc v4.0

02-12-2010, 04:43 AM

The other half is punching blue monkeys, head-butting krogan, and shooting annoying fanboys in the foot

DFM

02-12-2010, 04:43 AM

I think half the fun of having new technology is forgetting all the people who don't.

Osterbaum

02-12-2010, 04:49 AM

Hey, does anything actually happen with the fanboy (Konrad, right?) in ME1? 'Cause nothing ever seemed to happen besides him asking for more memorabilia.

Solid Snake

02-12-2010, 04:54 AM

An example of a relatively minor decision in ME1 having immense consequences:

So I filled up my Paragon meter all the way to 100% before completing Feros (in large part because I did virtually every sidequest, including the DLC, prior.) And I decided, what the hell, I'll kill this Asari woman who was working for Saren and who was possessed by Feros' native vegetation and actually earn some Renegade points for a change.
...several hours later, out of sheer curiosity, I look her up in the Mass Effect Wiki and find out that if I had let her live, she would have appeared and flirted with me in ME2.
Dammit. Even those tiny decisions regarding minor characters I assume have no major significance come back to haunt me! That is the beauty of Mass Effect: every minute, you gotta be on your toes. It's a beautiful polar opposite to the kind of standard JRPG feigned interactivity segments where you're prompted to "make choices" that actually have no substantive impact on the plot (and that don't even change the dialogue.)

Krylo

02-12-2010, 04:56 AM

Hey, does anything actually happen with the fanboy (Konrad, right?) in ME1? 'Cause nothing ever seemed to happen besides him asking for more memorabilia.

If you finish that side quest out it opens out the, hands down, best side quest in ME2.

I'm hoping he comes back in ME3, too.

Osterbaum

02-12-2010, 05:07 AM

Krylo

02-12-2010, 05:08 AM

Yeah, basically.

Just keep going back there after every mission.

Osterbaum

02-12-2010, 05:09 AM

Well it's too late already for that.

EDIT: Unless it doesn't have to be right after every mission, or rather just enough times.

Melfice

02-12-2010, 05:16 AM

But what do I need to do to finish it? My journal only says "What could be the harm in talking to him?" And then he asks for an autgraph, which I gave him. Then a photo, which I also granted him. Do I just keep going to the same spot on the Citadel until something happens?

Not sure what triggers the next leg of the quest, but I think it's doing story planets.

I always finished by telling him to go piss off by the third time, so I have no idea what you can do Paragon (or was telling him to take a hike the Paragon route? I DON'T REMEMBER!) to end the quest.

Krylo

02-12-2010, 05:18 AM

Well it's too late already for that.

EDIT: Unless it doesn't have to be right after every mission, or rather just enough times.

You can leave the citadel and go back, I think, to get him to reload in that position as many times as necessary to catch up.

Also, I think you see him like... four times? Something like that. Maybe three.

Marc v4.0

02-12-2010, 05:21 AM

I hope you get to shoot and/or hit him some more

Abusing him is so much fun

Krylo

02-12-2010, 05:36 AM

I hope you get to shoot and/or hit him some more

BOTH!

Not at the same time, though.

CABAL49

02-12-2010, 06:47 AM

I ran into Conrad on Illium. He became an even bigger douche.

DFM

02-12-2010, 06:49 AM

"Conrad... why are you acting like me?"

Krylo

02-12-2010, 06:52 AM

"YOU ARE GOING TO TELL HIM HE DID A GOOD JOB!"

Living Bobbeh

02-12-2010, 09:58 AM

I can finally read this thread!

Loyal Legion caught a rocket with its face when I chose it to be the tech specialist. Even though Legion was one of the right choices to ensure survival, still managed to die. I had to load an earlier save and choose Tali in order to get the achievement.

Osterbaum

02-12-2010, 10:18 AM

If that happened, he must've not been loyal.

Ravashak

02-12-2010, 10:43 AM

G.I.R.

02-12-2010, 12:25 PM

Oh, I know Loyalty plays a huge part in how the final battle turns out. And yes, using Jack was a mistake. When I went back the next try, I used Jacob as my squad leader for the distraction team and he did just fine.

Although.. in the final battle, Jack died again when holding off the enemy while I killed the Reaper. She reported back that they were getting hammered, but I didn't figure she'd die. But then again, I used Thane in the tubes and he caught the rocket in the face. I have to go back... but it's before the Reaper IFF mission... ugh.. But everyone else survived!

Living Bobbeh

02-12-2010, 12:27 PM

Did you side with Tali after you got back from Legion's loyalty mission? That could've removed it after getting it.

I used my charming personality and so they were both loyal. In fact, every character was loyal, so I don't know what was up with hat.

Red Fighter 1073

02-12-2010, 02:38 PM

Got it for XBox. It's pretty sweet so far, but good god, the text is almost entirely unreadable at times.
How bad is it, and where? I really want to play this game, but I'm poor as fuck and don't want to ruin myself on a fun game by squinting the entire time.

It's pretty damn small to the point that I usually sit close to the TV when I play. I've heard the small text size being compared to Dead Rising which I've also heard is pretty damn small. It doesn't ruin the game, but it's sure as hell annoying if you don't have an HD tv

G.I.R.

02-12-2010, 03:32 PM

Yeah... Mass Effect 2 pulled a Dead Rising with their text.

Mirai Gen

02-12-2010, 04:19 PM

It kind of frustrates me that they're so laissez-faire about it.

Azisien

02-12-2010, 04:24 PM

Okay wow, planet-scanning is boring on the consoles. Another reason for me to continue my "fuck consoles" tirade. Scanning is literally 30-40% the speed of PC scanning, with Miranda's upgrade, and assuming the PC scanning is not upgraded.

DFM

02-12-2010, 04:25 PM

It's exciting with a mouse!

Edit for Edit: All I noticed was I had to keep picking up my mouse and setting it back down so often it looked like I was trying to sand down the mouse pad.

Analog sticks, please.

Solid Snake

02-12-2010, 04:27 PM

I'd thoroughly recommend the PC versions of Mass Effect if not for the massive damage it's doing to my keyboard.
Seriously. Trying to get ME1's Mako to move up steep inclines not only takes five straight minutes of diagonal navigation, it takes five straight minutes of pressing down on the W button, to the point where the WASD buttons on my keyboard have a thin layer of sweat-induced crud on them. I'll have to find some way to clean this off. But here's hoping my keyboard continues to work in (somewhat) pristine condition.

Azisien

02-12-2010, 04:45 PM

Maybe instead of blaming ME you should just bathe every once in a while!

Solid Snake

02-12-2010, 04:46 PM

Maybe instead of blaming ME you should just bathe every once in a while!

Yeah, I'm 100% certain that this has nothing to do with bathing.

Azisien

02-12-2010, 06:40 PM

Yeah, I'm 100% certain that this has nothing to do with bathing.

Well there goes my horrible joke, drowned further into awkwardness by Snake's super-serious poo-headness.

Osterbaum

02-12-2010, 06:41 PM

It kind of frustrates me that they're so laissez-faire about it.
What?

Melfice

02-12-2010, 06:48 PM

What?

C'mon, Osterbum, you're European. You're expected to know at least a little bit of every language here.

BioWare's got a "Whatever" attitude about the small letters if you're playing on the console on a non-HD TV.

Kerensky287

02-12-2010, 07:09 PM

C'mon, Osterbum, you're European. You're expected to know at least a little bit of every language here.

BioWare's got a "Whatever" attitude about the small letters if you're playing on the console on a non-HD TV.

If anything, I find that the problem is greater for ME2 than ME1 because ME2 has fucking orange letters on red backgrounds.

Krylo

02-12-2010, 07:25 PM

Ok, guys, so they closed down my legion-mance thread.

This is my new crusade: Conrad Love. (http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/1157537)

Help me keep that shit bumped until it's shot down.

Create artificial interest for great hilarity.

Osterbaum

02-12-2010, 10:13 PM

C'mon, Osterbum, you're European. You're expected to know at least a little bit of every language here.

BioWare's got a "Whatever" attitude about the small letters if you're playing on the console on a non-HD TV.
No, I know what it means. I just wasn't aware it was used in this kind of context in english.

BitVyper

02-12-2010, 11:18 PM

It's exciting with a mouse!

Is it exciting in a house?

What about on a plain? Is it still exciting in a train?

Kim

02-12-2010, 11:22 PM

Is it exciting in a house?

What about on a plain? Is it still exciting in a train?

Is it exciting in a box? What if you were with a fox?

It's not exciting here or there, it's not exciting anywhere.

Solid Snake

02-13-2010, 12:17 AM

...Okay.

So I just beat Mass Effect 1. It was fucking phenomenal. Much better than I had first imagined. If ME2 is even simply just as good as the original, I'd be thrilled. If it's even better, I'd be astounded.

But one major question remains: exactly how do I upload my completed ME1 data? Because, you see, I wasn't exactly prompted to save after beating the game. It just went straight through the credits sequence. I could upload an earlier save but it wouldn't seem to have information regarding my decision to save the Council and choose Anderson over Udina for Humanity's Representative. Is there something I'm missing, here? There was an autosave file apparently created after I [SPOILER]beat Saren, but I still don't know what the hell to do with it (and that file wouldn't contain my final ambassador decision either.)

Krylo

02-13-2010, 12:20 AM

It invisibly saves it at the very very end when you're done making all decisions.

There's an ME1 save data import tool in ME2 that will automatically find all your invisible end game saves.

Solid Snake

02-13-2010, 12:21 AM

Heh.
Awesome. Guess I should check it out right now, see if it works.

Dauntasa

02-13-2010, 12:31 AM

It saves your decision on whether to save the Council or not, but it doesn't save your choice between Udina and Anderson. It lets you pick that near the start of ME2

Mirai Gen

02-13-2010, 01:46 AM

No, I know what it means. I just wasn't aware it was used in this kind of context in english.
It's generally used in reference to economics but in the end it's just a french phrase and I thought it was appropriate.

DFM

02-13-2010, 01:53 AM

I swear to god the Turian councilor could defeat the Reapers through sheer smug disbelief.

Red Fighter 1073

02-13-2010, 02:28 AM

Solid Snake

02-13-2010, 05:22 AM

...If a beautiful supermodel were to randomly knock on my door at this hour of the morning and ask, nay, demand to engage in sexual intercourse with me I would still say that Mass Effect 2 was the highlight of my week.
This game, this series, but particularly this sequel, is everything I've wanted videogames to be. In my wildest fantasies from a decade back, I imagined a game that could evoke something vaguely like this.

Mass Effect 2 took every criticism I could make about the original Mass Effect and appears to have improved upon it immensely -- and Mass Effect 1 certainly wasn't a bad game to begin with. Even the Wards in the Citadel in Mass Effect 1 had some bland design elements that reminded me of those standard warehouses that literally dotted every other scene in that game. The offices in the Presidium seemed virtually identical to a warehouse in a faroff world. Mass Effect 2 has fixed that.
Every goddamn decision I made in ME1 seems referenced. I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed just wandering around the Wards listening to newscasts that perfectly reflect the decisions I made in the prior title.

I knew the graphics in ME2 were somewhat improved but it wasn't until Tali showed up that I really noticed just how far the graphics have advanced. In the original ME, she had a somewhat bland, generic design. Here, the detail and the textures and the subtle nuances in her design are beautiful to behold.

Also, Zaeed and his stories kick immense amounts of ass, even though he does seem a bit of a deliberate second-rate Canderous Ordo clone.

The new, redesigned Normandy the Illusive Man provides you actually feels like a real spaceship. The subtle inclusion of things like bathrooms and personal quarters really helps immerse you. Man, if I knew Cerberus actually treated their crews like human beings compared to the subpar accommodations provided by the Alliance, I wouldn't have hunted 'em down and treated 'em so poorly in the first game.

About the only thing I really dislike is the apparent retconning with the Council. It seemed like at the end of ME1 I was under the deliberate impression that the crisis had finally forced the Council to confront the existence of the Reapers, and seeing them backtrack after Shepard saved their asses from Sovereign was lame. I suppose removing Shepard from the good graces of the Council was necessary to justify Shepard's willing cooperation with Cerberus, but that's unfortunate in a sense. I feel like this game would be ever-so-slightly better if there was a more defined Paragon vs. Renegade path and you were actually given the option to pursue the Collectors as a Cerberus agent, or backstab the Illusive Man from the beginning. Once the Illusive Man gives Shepard Normandy II, why not fly straight to the Citadel, report to the Council, have the most experienced technicians in the galaxy remove all the crap the Illusive Man installed on the ship, and simply continue the mission as a Spectre instead of as an agent for such a shadowy organization? Well, maybe that's a plot twist or something I'll get to later. But right now the antagonism between Shepard and the Council / certain former crew members seems a bit too forced, as if Bioware was just looking for an excuse to justify their decisions for ME2's divergent plot, or maybe just an excuse to avoid having to include tons of extra interaction with established ME1 characters.
Oh, and two years? Two years ago my life really wasn't much different. I haven't seen casual friends in the past two years who would gladly embrace me if I ended up in their neck of the woods again. Even assuming the wide socio-poltiical ramifications of the terrorist attack, two years is barely any time for so much to have changed -- especially many people's opinions about Shepard.

One last thing. I'm kind of confused as to why the Illusive Man seems to want everyone to know that Shepard's working for Cerberus. Wouldn't it be to the Illusive Man's advantage to resurrect Shepard and then effectively use Shepard as a covert agent? This strategy could be played to both their advantages -- Shepard wouldn't have to prance around as a maligned Cerberus operative, Shepard could operate a seemingly independent operation with a wider appeal to Council-governed space, and the Illusive Man can still rely on Shepard to provide an even greater amount of information from Council sources.

Krylo

02-13-2010, 05:29 AM

On the first bit: Don't you remember that Turian fucker?

On the last bit: He probably wants to make sure you don't do the second bit. Also Shep is an ICON, and having an ICON with him will probably garner him more support and monies.

On the bit about ex-friends: Expect an E-mail apologizing for that.

Solid Snake

02-13-2010, 05:41 AM

Also Shep is an ICON, and having an ICON with him will probably garner him more support and monies.

That's feasible. But from a certain perspective the idea that anyone who would consider donating to Cerberus would be persuaded by Shepard's involvement (particularly a paragon-Shepard's involvement) seems somewhat strange. Shepard spent most the first game actively working against their goals.
Similarly, before Miranda bothered explaining the structural composition of Cerberus (and how apparently none of their separate project groups actually interact,) I was pretty confused by all the affection Shepard was getting from Cerberus-aligned crew members and whatnot. In the first game, if you do the Cerberus sidequests, Shepard basically kills tons of Cerberus agents for solid reasons. I was ever-so-slightly disappointed that Shepard didn't call out the Illusive Man for some of his organizations' worst shenanigans, like turning innocent colonists into mindless zombies. I really wanted to tell the Illusive Man to fuck off and remember what he did to Rear Admiral Kahoku, say something like "I'd rather stay dead than sell my soul to the devil in exchange for another life," but Bioware never gave me the chance.

But still: I usually only excessively criticize minor nitpicks with games I really like. Mass Effect 2 is easily shaping up to be one of those games.

Osterbaum

02-13-2010, 07:20 AM

Similarly, before Miranda bothered explaining the structural composition of Cerberus (and how apparently none of their separate project groups actually interact,) I was pretty confused by all the affection Shepard was getting from Cerberus-aligned crew members and whatnot.
If you talk to some of the crew members they actually tell you, that they know very little if anything about other Cerberus task groups.

DFM

02-13-2010, 07:31 AM

Kelly feels so damn out of place in Cerberus, I don't even know, man.

Osterbaum

02-13-2010, 10:17 AM

Well going by ME1 Cerberus, everyone seems out of place.

Mirai Gen

02-13-2010, 11:46 AM

Mass Effect 2 took every criticism I could make about the original Mass Effect and appears to have improved upon it immensely -- and Mass Effect 1 certainly wasn't a bad game to begin with.
This is my review and Azis's (already finished and uploaded) review in a nutshell. I'm seriously sitting with like four games I could play, all rented, including Bioshock 2, and I keep just wanting to plonk down and run a new Paragon Engineer and hit on Tali.

I do hate mining though.

CABAL49

02-13-2010, 12:06 PM

You can get your Specter status reinstated by the council.

greed

02-13-2010, 12:31 PM

You can get your Specter status reinstated by the council.

Which brings up another question. Last time they were so dead set against you going into the Terminus systems they tried to impound your ship. This time they basically tell you to stay in the Terminus systems and to be as much of a crazy fuck up as you want. Just don't bring it into Council Space. Did the whole "Terminus systems will go to war if they think we're screwing with them" deal completely reverse in 2 years?

bluestarultor

02-13-2010, 12:36 PM

It kind of frustrates me that they're so laissez-faire about it.

Just pointing this out, but I was bumping around on the ME wiki and it might be a similar problem to Garrus' face in ME1 where because of how the game was programmed, it would take a multi-Gig patch to fix. (Which honestly makes me wonder what the hell they did, but still.)

Granted, it shouldn't have been an issue in the first place, but when your target audience is likely to to either not have an issue with it due to having a modern computer monitor or a high-def TV set, or possibly getting a high-def set in the near future, things like that can slip through the cracks. I mean, crap, my grandparents have a digital TV now. It's only going to be a matter of a few years before they rule the market outright, if they don't already.

Again, not saying it's right, but it is understandable in a way.

Edit: Funny enough, I'm not actually finding any information on the tiny text there.

Edit again: Their official statement seems to lend credence to the difficulty factor.

Aerozord

02-13-2010, 02:24 PM

So yeah I just encountered a very odd glitch. I've heard reviewers saying that ME2 is less glitchy than the original, but I gotta say that it's actually been the complete opposite. During the Garrus Loyalty Mission, I rotated my camera and inadvertently the sprites for BOTH of my squadmates just randomly disappeared. They could still use their powers and attack and everything, but they were absolutely nowhere to be seen, as if they were invisible..

Granted this was against two heavy mechs so I died eventually anyway, but although that glitch was really messed up, I guess it wouldn't have hurt me knowing that my squadmates couldn't be killed.

only major bug I found was when I did Grunt's loyalty mission, and during his right of passage my sound just went. I didn't realize just how huge of a disadvantage that was until that moment or how reliant I've become on ally feedback. Bug was so big I had to restart the entire system to fix it

Dauntasa

02-13-2010, 02:33 PM

Which brings up another question. Last time they were so dead set against you going into the Terminus systems they tried to impound your ship. This time they basically tell you to stay in the Terminus systems and to be as much of a crazy fuck up as you want. Just don't bring it into Council Space. Did the whole "Terminus systems will go to war if they think we're screwing with them" deal completely reverse in 2 years?

I think it's more that almost everybody thinks you're dead and everyone who doesn't thinks you work for Cerberus. So nobody would know that you still work for the Council, unless you make it really obvious by throwing your weight around in Citadel Space.

BitVyper

02-13-2010, 02:44 PM

Kelly feels so damn out of place in Cerberus, I don't even know, man.

It could be worse. (http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/vermontaigne/deanna6.jpg)

Marc v4.0

02-13-2010, 02:56 PM

It could be worse. (http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w131/vermontaigne/deanna6.jpg)

But everyone loves Commander Teenage Masturbatory Aid!

Red Fighter 1073

02-13-2010, 03:12 PM

So I just watched a scanning video of the PC version of ME2, and holy fuck did Bioware screw up the xbox version sooo much in regards to scanning. The speed at which the PC version is able to scan is basically just as fast (or maybe even faster) as simply trying to move around the cursor around in the xbox version. Really fucked up big time imo...

Osterbaum

02-13-2010, 07:46 PM

To me it seems that the whole game was made with the Xbox in mind rather than the PC.

Niveras

02-13-2010, 09:05 PM

The thing about scanning is ironic, considering the non-combat interface in general felt a lot less interactive and hamhanded compared to the PC interface in ME1. Specifically the fact that you can only use the mouse to move the ship around, ESC takes you back to your ship rather than zooming out from scanning the planet. Compare that to ME1 where you can leftclick an object to zoom in, and right click zooms you out. Obviously you can't use right click when scanning because that activates the scan, but requiring you to move the mouse to the little "backspace" button seemed forced. Why not let space, the default cancel key, zoom you out? Saves a little aggravation. Generally it felt like the PC interface was poorly handled and that if I was using a regular control, it would be more intuitive.

Of course, that's a pretty minor nitpick, and only worth pointing out because ME1 handled it better.

I kind of liked scanning and whatnot in ME2, although once you get about 70k element zero and 200k of everything else you're pretty set. I wouldn't mind seeing a home-base building mechanic (like NWN2's Keep, or maybe going so far as Storm of Zehir's trading conglomerate) so you can make better use of all the extra materials. However, that may also be outside the intended genre that Mass Effect falls into.

PS: Does anyone else think the Illusive Man is actually an AI as well? That's the sense I get, but reading some of the backstory on the wiki he may just be a regular (if "enhanced") human.

DFM

02-13-2010, 11:50 PM

Miranda's walking around and talking to him and interacting with him in the intro so I don't see how he could be an AI or why people seem to think he might be an AI.

Edit: Bit I feel like I would get that joke if I watched Star Trek

Edit 2:

http://phuzion.mirror.waffleimages.com/files/21/217ad3838ba3b0f22f60d9632c1652e6f976eccf.jpg

Azisien

02-14-2010, 12:11 AM

If the Illusive Man is an AI then he's the most substance-abusing AI I've ever seen, jebus.

Oh cool a comprehensive review of the game, like we didn't need another one! :D (http://www.gamepad-dojo.com/?p=829)

Or did we?! (http://www.gamingexcellence.com/pc/games/2287/review.shtml)

Mirai Gen

02-14-2010, 12:42 AM

*grumbles about not getting his done in time*

Aerozord

02-14-2010, 01:06 AM

what really bothers me about the smoking in this game, is that technology is still not where this looks good. Its less 'having it in your mouth' and more 'having it in the general vicinity'.

DFM

02-14-2010, 01:14 AM

Huh?

bluestarultor

02-14-2010, 01:17 AM

Huh?

I think he's complaining about bad collisions on cigarettes.

Aerozord

02-14-2010, 01:35 AM

and other things, but thats where it was the most jarring because it looked more like it was rammed through their lips, rather then sitting between them, and the eye is drawn to it.

DFM

02-14-2010, 01:37 AM

I... didn't notice that for any of the smokers. I guess I'll have to stare at TIM's rugged lips next playthrough.

Sithdarth

02-14-2010, 01:53 AM

The little bit I played before I decided I wanted a maxed out ME1 save brought me into contact with the Illusive Man and his ability to smoke a cigarette through his chin. Like he'd put it to his lips and then move his head and the cigarette would just stay were it was generally taking a detour through his cheek and then down to his chin.

DFM

02-14-2010, 01:55 AM

What the fuck how would I miss that.

Aerozord

02-14-2010, 01:57 AM

What the fuck how would I miss that.

because when you looked into his eyes, you realized nothing else mattered

DFM

02-14-2010, 01:58 AM

They... glow...

Sithdarth

02-14-2010, 02:01 AM

Its probably more noticeable on the 360 than the PC, I assume you are playing on a PC. In general the cigarette had a horrible habit of sinking halfway into whatever it was put on. This oddly did not extend to the Illusive Man where it simply stuck to his chin with filter and all showing. Apparently the Xbox just can't handle things that small.

Krylo

02-14-2010, 02:04 AM

I'm playing on x-box.... for now... and his cigarette looks fine to me.

Also, Azisien, you like scanning and liked the absolutely terrible inventory system in ME1.

I'm revoking your game reviewing license.

Marc v4.0

02-14-2010, 02:09 AM

Yeah, the cig moves fine on the 360, Never noticed it doing anything odd other then maintaining a pointy tip constantly

Sithdarth

02-14-2010, 02:12 AM

It might just be my Xbox. It has a tendency to be asinine. Like recently it's decided to take like 10 seconds or more to fully load textures so Turian faces are big blurs for the first few seconds of conversation. Also earlier today while taking the tram to the hot labs on Noveria it decided I didn't deserve to ride in the tram and spawned me halfway through the roof. It then decided that was silly and kicked me up onto the roof where I was promptly stuck between two beams.

Kerensky287

02-14-2010, 02:51 AM

I'm halfway convinced that the game randomly introduces harmless (and not-so-harmless) "bugs" into each new game. I'm playing as an Adept now and my biotic powers keep rapidly changing direction on the way down, which looks stupid (since the tail shifts left and right about 10 times per second) but doesn't affect the game. My housemate has never encountered this, but he keeps running into enemies that scream constantly after he uses a single ability on them.

BTW Sithdarth: The original Mass Effect (which I think you must be talking about since you mentioned Noveria) had a bunch of texture pop-in issues so it isn't just your xbox. In addition to that, I kept having the issue in my "canon" playthrough (the one I brought to ME2) where Shepard would get trapped inside the railing next to the Galaxy Map. I forget how I solved the issue.

Mirai Gen

02-14-2010, 04:16 AM

Also, Azisien, you like scanning and liked the absolutely terrible inventory system in ME1.

I'm revoking your game reviewing license.
I'm not sure 100% but I think he said that it had some serious problems but he isn't sure if he liked the ME2 streamlined inventory/upgrades or the ME1 illusion of choices more, problems notwithstanding.

Also also scanning on PC is far less fingernail-tearingly painful.

Krylo

02-14-2010, 04:34 AM

I'm not sure 100% but I think he said that it had some serious problems but he isn't sure if he liked the ME2 streamlined inventory/upgrades or the ME1 illusion of choices more, problems notwithstanding.

That is just as bad.

Also: being faster doesn't make it better. It just makes it take less time. And he liked Chocobo Hot and Cold. He'd still love it on the console. Don't lie to yourself.

There should be like some kind of minimum standard of taste to review games. I'm not convinced he has that.

Really, going with Miranda for his ratings, and not using "Mirandass" is reason enough for me to have my doubts.

And you'd better watch your Ps and Qs, young man. You're on pretty shaky ground yourself! Ever since you didn't like Scribblenauts.

Osterbaum

02-14-2010, 04:36 AM

About the cigarettes: I didn't notice anything on my first playthrough. However on my second playthrough it occasionally happened.

Mirai Gen

02-14-2010, 05:09 AM

That is just as bad.

Also: being faster doesn't make it better. It just makes it take less time. And he liked Chocobo Hot and Cold. He'd still love it on the console. Don't lie to yourself.
Point taken! I just remember him being like "Oh hey it is way way dumber on consoles" at one point, and never played it on PC myself. Assumed the positive.
Really, going with Miranda for his ratings, and not using "Mirandass" is reason enough for me to have my doubts.
You might like mine a bit better; I'm going for 5/5 Miranda Bras.
Ever since you didn't like Scribblenauts.
I always thought it was Brutal Legend that did that.

Krylo

02-14-2010, 06:05 AM

I always thought it was Brutal Legend that did that.

Nah, I disagree with your REASONS for not liking Brutal Legend, and even then only like... half way. 'Cause the stage battles suck, I just don't think they're hard, remember?

If you want me to like, lay into your reviewin' though you can make a new thread and I could probably find something to bitch about in all of them.

We could call it the "Krylo Reviews Your Reviews" thread.

Kim

02-14-2010, 06:33 AM

If I can't kill fish by fishing them out of the water, can't poison their water supply, and the game says that a tank is an inappropriate response to kids throwing snowballs at me when the whole point of the mission is REVENGE, I'm pretty sure that anyone is completely justified in disliking it.

On topic: I think on one of the profiles on my 360 is a completed run for ME1, but I don't think I did any romances, nor did I finish stuff with the fanboy. I did save the council and made the nice man whose name I can't recall a council member. Should I replay the first game and go for a completionist run before starting ME2 or just

Krylo

02-14-2010, 06:57 AM

Missing out on Conrad would be sad, but other than that there's not much reason to replay it unless you really don't like the decisions you made.

The game will play out more or less the same. You'll miss out on some e-mails and whatnot, but that's about it.

Kim

02-14-2010, 07:03 AM

Missing out on Conrad would be sad

Yeah, that alone is half the reason I'm considering a replay. That and I think I was a nice guy and I kinda want to be a dickass for this.

I have a hard time being a dick in video games unless I'm really apathetic about the game.

Krylo

02-14-2010, 07:10 AM

Yeah, that alone is half the reason I'm considering a replay. That and I think I was a nice guy and I kinda want to be a dickass for this.

I have a hard time being a dick in video games unless I'm really apathetic about the game.

Just imagine that everyone you're talking to just got done punching a baby.

Except your crew mates.

I can never bring myself to be mean to my crew mates.

Also, imagining the Turian Counselor just got done punching babies is probably unnecessary as that he's enough of a jerk ass that you'll probably want to murder him anyway.

Kim

02-14-2010, 07:14 AM

Also, imagining the Turian Counselor just got done punching babies is probably unnecessary as that he's enough of a jerk ass that you'll probably want to murder him anyway.

The game should award you Paragon points for being mean to him.

Krylo

02-14-2010, 07:36 AM

"Do you enjoy committing genocide, Shepard?"
"Depends on the species, TURIAN."

Azisien

02-14-2010, 11:50 AM

Also, Azisien, you like scanning and liked the absolutely terrible inventory system in ME1.

I'm revoking your game reviewing license.

Scanning is fun on the PC, since you can scan faster than one snail per second. It got old after a while, but by that point I had like half a million minerals anyway. The inventory system in ME1 was also tolerable on the PC. Not great, but no longer bad.

Both of these things are absolutely horrible on the 360. But my reviews are written for PC.

Sifright

02-14-2010, 12:04 PM

You found scanning fun? as in your enjoyed it, like it wasn't just barely tolerable... I don't even know how to respond to that :|

Melfice

02-14-2010, 12:11 PM

Maybe you lot are too sensitive?
I admit it isn't fun, but it's hardly intolerable and worthy of strangling your new puppy over the frustration.

'Sides, most of the upgrades arrive in waves, and it shouldn't take more than scanning 5 planets to "Moderate" status to supply you with enough minerals to research 1.5 wave. (Assuming you're lucky enough to pick planets with a decent Platinum stock)

Krylo

02-14-2010, 12:40 PM

Maybe you lot are too sensitive?
I admit it isn't fun, but it's hardly intolerable and worthy of strangling your new puppy over the frustration.

You've obviously not met my new puppy.

Aerozord

02-14-2010, 12:41 PM

Melfice

02-14-2010, 12:50 PM

my main issue was not mining over all, yea it was tedious grind but not like I haven't done that before in games. What I hated about it was when I was looking for a specific mineral and cant find it.

Only upside was I did get a sort of twisted joy from taking a planet from "rich" to "Depleted". Just something about the thought of strip-mining an entire planet that puts a smile on my face

Especially when it's a planet with a colony on it.
More-so when it's a mining-colony.

Yeah, sure, we're Cerberus now (or at least sailing under their flag), but we're pirates too?

Azisien

02-14-2010, 12:57 PM

You found scanning fun? as in your enjoyed it, like it wasn't just barely tolerable... I don't even know how to respond to that :|

That's okay, I don't know how to respond to your face

Mirai Gen

02-14-2010, 01:01 PM

My main problem is that in this third-person shooter with all sorts of fun powers there's an arbitrary game play-lengthening minigame tacked onto it. The entire time I'm playing the only reason I want to keep going is to beef up my upgrades, and the benefit alone shouldn't be a reason to do it.

It's just an irritating, mindless chore.
Except your crew mates.

I can never bring myself to be mean to my crew mates.
This was one of my problems with the Renegade options, really. My crew kick ass - it's everyone else I want to punch in the mouth or shove out of windows.

Makes it hard to get all the good renegade options.

DFM

02-14-2010, 01:05 PM

Mining would be slightly more tolerable with some kind of fog of war so you could at least see where you've been.

As it is I just push eight on the numpad and get unlimited resources because fuck is mining boring.

Aerozord

02-14-2010, 01:21 PM

Out of curiousity, did anyone, ever put Udina on the Council? I know I atleast couldn't bring myself to do it

DFM

02-14-2010, 01:25 PM

He was on the council for the one game I didn't import from ME1.

He's still a douche.

CABAL49

02-14-2010, 01:51 PM

He's still an even bigger douche.

He basically tells you to GTFO.

bluestarultor

02-14-2010, 01:57 PM

You've obviously not met my new puppy.

It doesn't count if it has three heads. :p

BitVyper

02-14-2010, 03:01 PM

One thing that's annoying me a bit is that the game seems to have trouble recognizing as cover anything that wasn't put in place specifically for that purpose. Even then, I've more than once gotten shot in the head while furiously pressing A to duck behind a box. It's not terrible, but it seems like lazy programming.

Osterbaum

02-14-2010, 03:58 PM

I wish I hadn't romanced Liara in the game I imported. She's sort of... boring. Sweet, but boring. I wonder what happens in ME3 if I romance someone else. Which is the most interesting romance option, in your opinions? Right now I feel like Jack could be interesting, and hell Miranda could be sort of interesting as well. Tali is cool, but I sort of prefer her as a squad mate rather than a love interest. What about Kelly?

As it is I just push eight on the numpad and get unlimited resources because fuck is mining boring.
Wait, what? You can do that? 'Cause mining is boring especially on a second playthrough.

Living Bobbeh

02-14-2010, 04:35 PM

I wish I hadn't romanced Liara in the game I imported. She's sort of... boring.

Boring? She was bloody tedious. I had a seriously long conversation with a friend on MSN about how boring and tedious I find most Asari.

Robert: Asari is actually japanese slang for underage lady parts
Mike: Oh
Mike: That's the best piece of trivia I'll hear all day
Robert: Literally translate to "Deep necked clam"
Mike: And odd
Mike: Considering how old they are
Mike: And deep necked clam is the least erotic thing to describe lady parts ever
Robert: AND HOW THEY DON'T SHUT THE FUCK UP
Mike: Oh yeah, I forgot about that
Robert: ALWAYS FUCKING TALKING
Mike: You know
Robert: MAKES YOUR DAMN POINT BITCH
Mike: THey need to add renegade options to everything
Robert: LOOMING OVER THE X BUTTON TO SKIP YO ASS
Mike: You should be able to punch anyone, mid-sentence
Mike: NOBODY QUESTIONS THE PUNCHMASTER
Robert: There's enough punch people while they talk
Robert: I WOULD USE IT EVERY FUCKING SENTENCE ON THE ASARI
Mike: :D
Robert: STOP FUCKING DESCRIBING WHAT SHE IS GOING TO DO BITCH
Mike: This
Mike: (Link: http://www.cracked.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/sb40-punchmaster.jpg)
Robert: I'M FUCKING SHEPARD, I CAN HANDLE SHIT
Mike: I wish I could play every game as the punchmaster
Robert: I WILL PUNCH YOU NOW
Robert: PUT YOUR TITS AWAY WE'RE IN PUBLIC GEEZ
Robert: FUCKING ASARI, THINK THEY OWN THE PLACE
Mike: Matriarch benezia syndrome
Mike: Hmm
Mike: Are there male asari?
Robert: NO
Mike: Dazam
Robert: ASARI CAN BE BOTH MOTHER AND FATHER
Robert: BUT RESULT IS ALWAYS THE SAME
Mike: Hey, maybe if an Asari bred with a Krogan, they'd be quiet some of the time
Robert: INABILITY TO SHUT THE FUCK UP
Mike: THey weren't that bad in ME1
Robert: LIARA
Mike: Have they really had that much of a shut the fuck up-grade?
Robert: ALWAYS WITH THE FAINTING AND NOT SHUTTING UP
Mike: This is why the X button is there
Robert: "I AM SORRY SHEPARD, THIS SHIT IS TOO HARD"
Mike: But I have fucked up on a few occasions because of it
Robert: I AM HUMAN BITCH AND I CAN TAKE IT
Robert: I'LL JUST ROCK THESE MAD VISIONS MYSELF
Robert: DON'T UNDERSTAND IT, BUT I DON'T COMPLAIN ALL THE TIME
Mike: Human
Mike: "Man, I haven't eaten in, like, days. I think imma lay down and grab a bite."
Mike: Liara
Robert: "I NEED FOOD ALL THE DAMN TIME BECAUSE OTHERWISE ILLNESSESS AND WEAKNESS AND OTHER THINGS AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON"
Mike: "Excuse me shepard. I feel faint. This is probably owing to learning to true fate of the protheans coupled with exhaustion. I will go and have myself checked over by a medical professional..."
Robert: Elaine Shepard has some hiden Asari racism
Mike: I called my main guy Fagballs
Robert: YEAH, GO TO THE SICK BAY, US ADULTS WILL TALK ABOUT BIG PEOPLE THINGS
Mike: Good thing they just call him Commander
Mike: Also
Mike: Please
Mike: PLEASE
Mike: Tell me you're openly that hateful to her face
Robert: Yeah, but she don't hear, because you know, it's a video game
Mike: I mean in game
Robert: I JUST CAME IN TO GET SOME MEDIGEL
Robert: PLEASE DON'T TALK TO ME
Robert: DONT EVEN LOOK AT ME
Mike: But Shepard
Robert: NO
Mike: I just wanted to know-
Robert: WHY CAN'T YOU BE MORE LIKE TALI?
Mike: But Tali is a Quarian?
Robert: SUIT THE FUCK UP
Mike: Also, Liara is easy
Robert: LIARA IS A TRICKY BITCH
Mike: She is eaaaasy
Mike: Ashley is hard work in comparison
Mike: But at least Ashley has a personality
Robert: Kaiden took some talking too
Mike: Yeah
Mike: But he's got his past squared away
Robert: FUCK THAT ASHLEY BITCH TOO
Mike: I didn't like Tali that much
Robert: OH, ONE OF YOU TWO WILL DIE ON THIS PLANET
Robert: I VOTE BONE
Mike: Hey Kaiden, go help Ashley get that bomb off her
Mike: I'll just uhhh
Mike: Go uhhh
Mike: Check whether the Normandy is operational
Robert: I had Kaiden stay with the bomb and then saved him
Robert: Both times
Mike: Yeah
Mike: He's a Tech
Mike: It makes more sense
Mike: Oh, I'll let the jarhead arm the bomb
Mike: Okay
Mike: BOOM
Robert: Nah, I thought when you split up was the choice
Robert: PLEASE, TAKE ASHLEY TO LEAD YOUR ARMY, SHE'S REALLY GOOD, HONEST
Mike: Well
Robert: I THINK I'M STARTING TO GET A SORE THROAT WITH ALL THIS SHOUTING
Mike: Those Salarians did look a bit rubbery
Mike: They needed a meat shield
Mike: Also
Mike: Did you divert enemy forces onto Ashley
Mike: So you could sneak in
Robert: Nah, I'm too nice
Robert: At least, I didn't second run through
Robert: My second run was basically my first again, but with more added
Robert: I may have saved the council in my male run
Robert: Didn't in my female
Mike: Oh, first time round I killed them off
Mike: Because fuck those guys
Mike: I mostly played it paragon
Mike: But killed the council
Mike: There's my neutral
Mike: Because generally I don't like being a dick
Robert: I was the same on second run
Mike: But we had to kill the reaper and the council fucked us over all the time anyway
Robert: Just because I thought I should make a change somewhere
Mike: Yeah
Mike: Trouble is, most of the time it's too much of a conscious effort to be nice
Mike: "Pick the top option, pick the top option, pick the top option"
Robert: I just played the whole game top right
Mike: Yeah
Mike: That
Mike: Also
Mike: Best moral quandary in the game?
Mike: In your opinion
Robert: BUT WHEN THAT ASARI BOLLOCKS STARTS: BOTTOM RIGHT

I think I may be racist to Asari.

Mirai Gen

02-14-2010, 04:52 PM

I wish I hadn't romanced Liara in the game I imported. She's sort of... boring. Sweet, but boring. I wonder what happens in ME3 if I romance someone else. Which is the most interesting romance option, in your opinions? Right now I feel like Jack could be interesting, and hell Miranda could be sort of interesting as well. Tali is cool, but I sort of prefer her as a squad mate rather than a love interest. What about Kelly?
Miranda - "Hey, we're both hot, so let's go bang in the engine room tonight. It'll be fun!"
Jack - "You're right, I do need emotions, Shepard. So, take me."
Tali - "I'm awkward around you cause I've had this huge crush all along, but it's endearing even though being with you is risky and dangerous for my health. Also; pseudo-Russian accent."
Kelly - "BOY THAT SURE WAS A GREAT NIGHT OF PASSIONATE PANTS-ON HUGGING (I love pole dancing for Shepard!)"

CABAL49

02-14-2010, 04:56 PM

Wait, what? You can do that? 'Cause mining is boring especially on a second playthrough.

Pretty sure he is cheating/using a trainer.

Aerozord

02-14-2010, 05:56 PM

Tali - "I'm awkward around you cause I've had this huge crush all along, but it's endearing even though being with you is risky and dangerous for my health. Also; pseudo-Russian accent."

stuff like taht did kinda reinforce the impression that I got of her being underaged, and I dont think its possible to make Shepard look younger then like, 30

Marc v4.0

02-14-2010, 06:03 PM

Red Fighter 1073

02-14-2010, 06:24 PM

So yeah apparently, there's an infinite paragon/renegade glitch (http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=944907&topic=53430258) in ME2 as well. Unfortunately, it's at the very beginning of the game in the Cerberus facility but at least it's something especially if you're like me and like to make case by case actions instead of either being a jackass or a kiss-ass and not having to pay the consequences later on the game.. I'm on my third playthrough right now so I'll chip in on my attempts to make sure it actually works

EDIT: Also, pic made of win just as an added bonus

http://sites.google.com/a/virtualshackles.com/omg/1-1/mass_effect_avatar.jpg

Osterbaum

02-14-2010, 07:30 PM

If you play as Infiltrator, after maxing your "Infiltrator" talent or whatever, you get to choose between Assassin and Agent. Agent supposedly gets all paragon and renegade conversation options. It doesn't max out your paragon and renegade scores though, which I'm assuming is because those will again matter once you import your saves to ME3.

Red Fighter 1073

02-14-2010, 07:40 PM

Yeah every class has their own special class upgrade (BLANK Mastery) like you were talking about with the Infiltrator Osterbaum. The more you level up that Mastery skill, it does increase both your Paragon/Renegade scores, but it only increases at a certain percentage of your current total Paragon/Renegade scores (Level 1 - 25% of your total; Level 4 - 100% of your total), so if you max that Mastery skill early on in the game when you have low P/R scores, then Mastery unfortunately won't increase your PR that much.

Osterbaum

02-14-2010, 07:42 PM

Aah yes, it propably said something along the lines of raising your P&R scores 100% or something. Really should've saved it for later then.

BitVyper

02-14-2010, 08:02 PM

Hey internet, remember way back when ME1 first came out and I predicted that The Reapers needed organic life, because why else would they have sat on their asses and allowed it to develop again? Remember how everywhere I said this, everyone told me I was full of shit? Well I have three words for you (also some punctuation, and one of the words is italicised for emphasis): FUCKING HUMAN REAPER!

As I am just finishing up the game right now, I'm sure in the next five seconds, the Reapers will reveal they did it for teh lulz just to make me wrong.

Niveras

02-14-2010, 11:28 PM

He doesn't look much over 25-ish to me

According to what can be gathered, though, he's about 29 or 30. Due to human lifespan extension and genetic therapy and enhancement he's likely to look about the same well into his 40s.

Maybe you're referring to the canon Shepard as only looking 25, but mine certain looks a lot older. I'd post a picture if I could figure out a way to get a good head shot of him.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

02-14-2010, 11:30 PM

Anyone that doesn't like scanning.

Try it while listening to this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFCZMEwl_K8

DFM

02-15-2010, 12:41 AM

I was wondering how long it would be before someone put that song to a video and there it is and I'm really disappointed.

Krylo

02-15-2010, 08:31 AM

Miranda - "Hey, we're both hot, so let's go bang in the engine room tonight. It'll be fun!"
Jack - "You're right, I do need emotions, Shepard. So, take me."
Tali - "I'm awkward around you cause I've had this huge crush all along, but it's endearing even though being with you is risky and dangerous for my health. Also; pseudo-Russian accent."
Kelly - "BOY THAT SURE WAS A GREAT NIGHT OF PASSIONATE PANTS-ON HUGGING (I love pole dancing for Shepard!)"

Lemme correct this a little:

Miranda--"I have daddy issues, please fix me, Shepard."
Jack--"I have anger and developmental issues, please fix me, Shepard."
Tali--"I...Well I don't actually have issues, but you're pretty great, Shepard."
Kelly--"I just kind of want to have sex with everything that walks on two legs, and some things that don't. P.S. Scale Itch."

Also anyone who thinks Liara is boring hasn't talked to her on Ilium/chose the wrong conversation options with her when they did.

Oh, and Shepard is 31, guys. That's the canon.

DFM

02-15-2010, 09:27 AM

You know, I never really thought about the source of that STD but it's totally Kelly.

Living Bobbeh

02-15-2010, 10:10 AM

Also anyone who thinks Liara is boring hasn't talked to her on Ilium/chose the wrong conversation options with her when they did.

I shouldn't have to get things wrongs for her to be interesting. And does she still talk and talk and talk and talk even then?

DFM

02-15-2010, 10:13 AM

No, you got things wrong because she apparently didn't say anything interesting.

And talk and talk and talk? What?

Krylo

02-15-2010, 10:16 AM

I shouldn't have to get things wrongs for her to be interesting. And does she still talk and talk and talk and talk even then?

Dude, in ME2 she is threatening to flay a dude alive with her mind when you first meet her. She then asks you to help her out with the shadow broker.

Also: In the two years you were dead, here's how things went down: Cerberus and the SB were after your corpse.

The SB wanted to sell your corpse to the Collectors for mucho dinero while Cerberus wanted to bring you back to life.

Liara worked with Cerberus despite hating them to bring you back to life--regardless of how shitty you happened to treat her/not treat her in the first game. She risked life and limb multiple times and lost friends to the Shadow Broker to keep YOU alive.

When you meet her again she is hunting down the, if you'll allow me to slip into Zaeed speech for a minute, GOTDAMN Shadow Broker, so that she can, in her own words, "Hit him with a biotic field so strong that what is left of him will fit into a cup," for attempting to sell you to the Collectors and for capturing a Drell that was helping her with it.

A lot of people don't like her in ME1/2 because she won't flat out tell you a lot of that unless you ask the right questions. The reason being that she suspects her office to be bugged by the SB.

Compare this to your other characters:

Miranda, Daddy Never Loved Me, Lawson
Jack, It's Like I'm An All Powerful Bitch But Then I'm A Scared Little Girl Again, Subject Zero
Jacob, You Won't Even Notice When I'm Gone, Taylor
Ashley, Raging Xenophobic Bitch That Hates You In The Sequel, Williams
Kaiden, Migraines, Alenko
Etc. Etc.

Mirai Gen

02-15-2010, 01:55 PM

This is why Tali and Garrus are superior options.

Interspecies erotica wins again.

EDIT VV: She's a quarian teenager, really.

CABAL49

02-15-2010, 01:57 PM

I wonder how a Grunt romance would work out? Never mind, that just sounds painful.

Edit: Tali is still a little kid!

DFM

02-15-2010, 02:07 PM

Bio says she's 24, but that's not really the point.

bluestarultor

02-15-2010, 03:07 PM

Bio says she's 24, but that's not really the point.

The point is that in the first game, she was out and around because she'd hit maturity or something. They updated her design in ME2 to better reflect her continuing physical maturation.

BitVyper

02-15-2010, 03:40 PM

The point is that in the first game

The actual point is that she's a hot space gypsy.

Living Bobbeh

02-15-2010, 03:41 PM

Because of how much I hated her in the first game, I avoided talking to her as much as I could in ME2. Almost went without doing one of the main missions because I didn't want to talk to her.

In my first playthrough of ME1, I didn't even know where she was on the ship. She always complains when she does her mind-meld nonsense, and took forever for her to spit out what she was going to say.

Solid Snake

02-15-2010, 03:54 PM

...It's possible to hate Liara?
I mean I didn't even pursue Liara romantically or anything, because I eventually developed a slight preference for Ashley (xenophobia and all), but damn, I didn't know it was possible to hate on Liara.

Actually I have to say that I like the vast majority of Mass Effect characters, even the ones who seem to be catching a lot of flak. I like Jack (it's nice to see a strong female raging with aggression and shouting "fuck" a few times in a video game) and I like Miranda (yeah, she's cold and calculated, but I think she does a good job of humanizing a frankly deplorable organization in ME1 in Cerberus.) I like Zaeed. I like Thane. And of course, I like Garrus, Wrex and Mordin the most.

The only squad member I felt ambivalent about in ME1 was Tali, but then they fleshed her out and made her awesome in ME2, so no complaints there. The character I'm most ambivalent about in ME2 is actually a fairly popular one in Grunt, but that's only because Wrex was about a thousand times cooler and there's no way for Grunt to adequately compare to the character I'll constantly compare him to. (A new turian character in ME3 would have even greater difficulty, I'd always compare him unfavorably to Garrus.)

...Oh, and Jacob. I have to confess, even I have difficulty remembering Jacob.

Krylo

02-15-2010, 04:03 PM

I like Jack (it's nice to see a strong female raging with aggression and shouting "fuck" a few times in a video game) I felt entirely the same way until I did her loyalty quest, and heard the line I put in quotes up above there. It was so out of character for her and so goddamned cliched. I've been through that three times now, and every time I want to punch her in the face.

I guess it's not really her fault, though. It was just terrible writing. DFM and I were talking and he pulled a better way to word it out of his ass in like thirty seconds or something. Hell, it would have been better even if they would have cut out the first half where she's all "I'm an all powerful bitch" and just left the "It feels like I'm a scared little girl" thing. It still would have sucked, but not nearly as much.

Grunt to adequately compare to the character I'll constantly compare him to. I felt the same way here at first, too. Grunt came off as a shitty Wrex clone in the trailers and what not.

But once I played him, did his loyalty mission, and talked to him a bit--he's really absolutely nothing like Wrex. And yes, he's one dimensional and not as deep as Wrex, and I would have hated that--IF they hadn't made it an actual plot point and used it to flesh out Krogan culture and civilization.

I still like Wrex better, but Grunt is totally in my top ten.

In fact, if I could still have Wrex as a member, I'd be rollin' Shep, Wrex, Grunt everywhere.

BitVyper

02-15-2010, 04:09 PM

it's nice to see a strong female

I only find Jack strong in the physical "I can kill you with my mind" sense. Otherwise, she's a pretty weak person with a lot of bluster - which is totally fine, and she's still definitely unconventional, but I wouldn't really call her strong. She may evolve in the future, but for the moment, she's still scared inside.

I still like Wrex better, but Grunt is totally in my top ten.

They'd have to make a Krogan equivalent to Magus in order to outdo Wrex. But yeah; Grunt is just a kid. Give him time.

Edit: Where's that image of Wrex with the caption "Shepard, show me this thing you humans call 'kissing?'"

Mirai Gen

02-15-2010, 04:12 PM

Miranda--"I have daddy issues, please fix me, Shepard."
I liked Miranda a bit more once I got through her loyalty mission because then it became a thing of Miranda and Shepard just wanting to fuck in the engine room instead of "Oh it's just so difficult to be perfect."

Solid Snake

02-15-2010, 04:16 PM

I felt entirely the same way until I did her loyalty quest, and heard the line I put in quotes up above there. It was so out of character for her and so goddamned cliched.

...Oh.
That's an actual quote of hers?
Well, crap. I haven't done Jack's loyalty mission yet and now I really don't want to. I'd much prefer her as the badass ex-convict she started the game off as. If the loyalty mission retcons her into the stereotypical sexist "she sounds tough but she's really just scared inside, like all supposedly tough girls really feel" bullshit, Bioware fucked up.

In fact, if I could still have Wrex as a member, I'd be rollin' Shep, Wrex, Grunt everywhere.

I think what bothers me about Grunt is specifically that I'm supposed to believe he's the most badass, genetically engineered Krogan in existence, and that no Krogan could possibly stand up to his sheer physical prowess. And then I think about Wrex and I'm like "yeah, screw genetic engineering. Ninety-nine times out of one hundred, in a fight between the two, Wrex kicks Grunt's pathetic ass." It's nice if the point of the character is to show that genetic superiority isn't everything, I suppose, but that would directly contradict Okeer's little rant.

On a slightly related note, I really hope that between the option of incorporating an all-new (or mostly new) cast for ME3, and the option of making the theme of ME3 about the consequences of your earlier decisions and forcing you to continue with a cast largely comprised of whoever you kept alive in ME1 and ME2, that Bioware chooses the latter possibility. I like these characters too much to want them to virtually disappear, and the "new adventure with new characters" concept for sequels has been done all the time. Bioware has a chance to try something unique and I hope they take it.

That's not to say I wouldn't mind a few new characters being introduced, but it'd be great if it were less than five tops. A few of the characters "guaranteed" to join your party could be returning ones who simply can't die regardless of how you play ME, like Liara (I'd be shocked if Liara doesn't return as a squad member in ME3, Bioware really seems to be building towards that.)

Another idea I concocted was it'd be awesome if you had to build a crew for the next Normandy yourselves, by recruiting characters for the crew just as you'd recruit squad members. And it'd be awesome if all kinds of secondary characters from the first two games, if still living and on favorable terms with Shepard, could join the crew. Their presence could indirectly "upgrade" the Normandy's capabilities.

Krylo

02-15-2010, 04:35 PM

...Oh.
That's an actual quote of hers?
Well, crap. I haven't done Jack's loyalty mission yet and now I really don't want to. I'd much prefer her as the badass ex-convict she started the game off as. If the loyalty mission retcons her into the stereotypical sexist "she sounds tough but she's really just scared inside, like all supposedly tough girls really feel" bullshit, Bioware fucked up.
To be fair, it was the place you go that makes her feel that way, which is understandable.

I just wish they had handled it better.

I think what bothers me about Grunt is specifically that I'm supposed to believe he's the most badass, genetically engineered Krogan in existence, and that no Krogan could possibly stand up to his sheer physical prowess. And then I think about Wrex and I'm like "yeah, screw genetic engineering. Ninety-nine times out of one hundred, in a fight between the two, Wrex kicks Grunt's pathetic ass." It's nice if the point of the character is to show that genetic superiority isn't everything, I suppose, but that would directly contradict Okeer's little rant. Well Wrex does have a few centuries worth of combat experience on him, but they do mention that Wrex (some odd centuries ago) was the last person to... actually if you haven't done the loyalty quest I won't ruin it.

Point is, Grunt will probably grow up to be about as awesome as Wrex, but right now he's a kid, and yeah Wrex would annihilate him.

Also: Okeer was insane, and judging by what he stated about the Genophage, I think he was making a Krogan that was not so much the perfect warrior (or he'd have had Biotics), but rather a Krogan who was adapted to the Genophage. Who could carry it and be unaffected.

Dauntasa

02-15-2010, 04:45 PM

Also: Okeer was insane, and judging by what he stated about the Genophage, I think he was making a Krogan that was not so much the perfect warrior (or he'd have had Biotics), but rather a Krogan who was adapted to the Genophage. Who could carry it and be unaffected.

It seemed to me that what he was planning to do was clone a bunch of Pure Krogans from Grunt and then dump them on Tuchanka, so that they would enter the gene pool and sort of counter the Genophage by making the 1 in 1 thousand surviving Krogans one thousand times better.

Mirai Gen

02-15-2010, 04:52 PM

It would have been moot if Mordin not made the genophage start working again.

Kerensky287

02-15-2010, 04:54 PM

To be fair, it was the place you go that makes her feel that way, which is understandable.

I just wish they had handled it better.

Agreed... I mean, I couldn't stand Jack for a lot of reasons (I never took her in my party because on both playthroughs so far I've had ALL of her abilities available already) but the whole "really a scared little girl" thing ticked me off. I know they wanted her to be a romance option, but couldn't they have done it more like... yeah, she was affected by her experiences, but she was already psychotic in the first place? Just as an example. Then you might have to make a few decisions in order to stay with her that could negatively impact the world around you.

I still kinda want to hear the "better explanation that DFM pulled out of his ass in 30 seconds" because DFM is a damn good writer.

Well Wrex does have a few centuries worth of combat experience on him, but they do mention that Wrex (some odd centuries ago) was the last person to... actually if you haven't done the loyalty quest I won't ruin it.

Point is, Grunt will probably grow up to be about as awesome as Wrex, but right now he's a kid, and yeah Wrex would annihilate him.

Wrex is pretty much a hero on par with Gilgamesh, Cuchulainn, Hercules and Batman. I don't care how hard you genetically modify someone, you're going to have a hard time beating a natural superhero.

Oh, just a side note, I want to see this conversation in ME3:

"Wrex."
"Grunt."
"Wrex."
"Grunt."
"Wrex."
"Grunt."
etc

Also: Okeer was insane, and judging by what he stated about the Genophage, I think he was making a Krogan that was not so much the perfect warrior (or he'd have had Biotics), but rather a Krogan who was adapted to the Genophage. Who could carry it and be unaffected.

I seem to recall a conversation with Okeer specifically involving him telling Shep that he didn't give a damn about the genophage, and that he wanted a galaxy-dominating army of superkrogan.

BitVyper

02-15-2010, 05:31 PM

counter the Genophage by making the 1 in 1 thousand surviving Krogans one thousand times better.

This, pretty much. He didn't want to get rid of the genophage, he just wanted to make the Krogan kick the universe's ass in spite of it. It'd be like Clark landing on the Kryptonite island in Superman Returns, walking up to Lex Luthor, and just punching him out anyway, or a kung fu master kicking your ass after you gouged his eyes out.

Olkeer didn't want to get rid of the genophage - he wanted to make superfluous, or even turn it into a strength. He wanted curing the genophage to be beneath them - not even worth their time.

but couldn't they have done it more like... yeah, she was affected by her experiences, but she was already psychotic in the first place?

You'd have to rewrite her character. The "I say fuck a lot and brag about my criminal activity to mask my self-esteem/victimization issues" thing just rolls off her as it is, loyalty quest or no.

I will admit that the line in question is pretty terrible though.

Krylo

02-15-2010, 06:10 PM

I seem to recall a conversation with Okeer specifically involving him telling Shep that he didn't give a damn about the genophage, and that he wanted a galaxy-dominating army of superkrogan.

This, pretty much. He didn't want to get rid of the genophage, he just wanted to make the Krogan kick the universe's ass in spite of it. It'd be like Clark landing on the Kryptonite island in Superman Returns, walking up to Lex Luthor, and just punching him out anyway, or a kung fu master kicking your ass after you gouged his eyes out.

Olkeer didn't want to get rid of the genophage - he wanted to make superfluous, or even turn it into a strength. He wanted curing the genophage to be beneath them - not even worth their time.

Okeer said he wanted to deal to the genophage the greatest insult a krogan can deal to an enemy--to ignore it completely.

So long as krogan babies are still dying, so long as 1 in 1000 krogan pregnancies are viable, the genophage can't be ignored. However, if the genophage is NOT cured, if the krogan remain infected by it, but not AFFECTED by it, as was happening naturally before Mordin fixed it, that allows the krogan to ignore it.

It also makes much more sense as to why so many of his 'children' were failures. It's much harder to test for 'combat effectiveness' than it is to test whether or not the genome has evolved around a specific artificial genetic marker.

The other possibility that he just wanted the 1 in 1000 to be super badass is possible too, of course, but it wouldn't really have gotten him what he wanted. Further, Grunt's own abilities don't actually speak to that.

Grunt killed a thresher maw, the first in centuries, with the help of SHEPARD, who could have probably solo'd the damn thing, anyway. Wrex killed a thresher maw in his proving with the help of a couple average bitch ass krogan that no one ever heard of again.

Grunt's 'superiority to all krogan' is pretty questionable. He doesn't even have biotic powers, despite it being a powerful and rare addition to the krogan.

Marc v4.0

02-15-2010, 06:21 PM

Okeer said he wanted to deal to the genophage the greatest insult a krogan can deal to an enemy--to ignore it completely.

So long as krogan babies are still dying, so long as 1 in 1000 krogan pregnancies are viable, the genophage can't be ignored. However, if the genophage is NOT cured, if the krogan remain infected by it, but not AFFECTED by it, as was happening naturally before Mordin fixed it, that allows the krogan to ignore it.

It also makes much more sense as to why so many of his 'children' were failures. It's much harder to test for 'combat effectiveness' than it is to test whether or not the genome has evolved around a specific artificial genetic marker.

The other possibility that he just wanted the 1 in 1000 to be super badass is possible too, of course, but it wouldn't really have gotten him what he wanted. Further, Grunt's own abilities don't actually speak to that.

Grunt killed a thresher maw, the first in centuries, with the help of SHEPARD, who could have probably solo'd the damn thing, anyway. Wrex killed a thresher maw in his proving with the help of a couple average bitch ass krogan that no one ever heard of again.

Grunt's 'superiority to all krogan' is pretty questionable. He doesn't even have biotic powers, despite it being a powerful and rare addition to the krogan.

He's also a Whelp. His head plates aren't even fused and he has no decent hump yet. His plate hasn't even turned green yet. He's a Teenager.

We don't need to even think about our puberty years to understand why he isn't terribly impressive just yet.

besides, Wrex thinks he's good, so that's enough for me.

Krylo

02-15-2010, 06:22 PM

He's also a Whelp. His head plates aren't even fused and he has no decent hump yet. His plate hasn't even turned green yet. He's a Teenager.

We don't need to even think about our puberty years to understand why he isn't terribly impressive just yet.

besides, Wrex thinks he's good, so that's enough for me.

So was Wrex during spoilered bits.

Edit: And Wrex thinks he's good because he's with you.

Dauntasa

02-15-2010, 07:15 PM

Grunt's 'superiority to all krogan' is pretty questionable. He doesn't even have biotic powers, despite it being a powerful and rare addition to the krogan.

Biotic Powers aren't genetic. They're a result of exposure to eezo in the womb. And seeing as that only gives powers every once in a while, and normally gives horrible, horrible cancer, I can see why Okeer wouldn't want to try that on his perfect krogan.

Krylo

02-15-2010, 07:41 PM

For humans, yes. Actually for humans I think it's a combination of genetics and Eezo exposure, however, all, or at least the vast vast vast majority of, asari are biotic. Some, at some point, would not have had eezo exposure in the womb, unless eezo is actually part of their biological make up.

Anyway, point is, you can cause it in humans by doing that, but I'm not so sure it's not something you could add genetically to other races. I'm also not so sure you couldn't ensure that your 'perfect' krogan was genetically predisposed to survive the eezo exposure and have biotics and just use controlled exposure on the entire control group.

Not like he didn't have a crap ton of failures already.

Dauntasa

02-15-2010, 07:46 PM

Biotic powers from eezo exposure are totally random, because it's not genetic. It's all about where the crystals end up in your body. Nervous System=Powers. Anywhere else= Cancer. I'm pretty sure this is how it works for every potentially biotic species except the Asari.

Marc v4.0

02-15-2010, 09:05 PM

So was Wrex during spoilered bits.

Edit: And Wrex thinks he's good because he's with you.

The very fact that you are allowed to go with Grunt to represent him as his krant means that Wrex didn't have to be alone during it. It was his thing, so he gets credit for it with help or not.

Also: He's with me because he's good, which is why Wrex knows he has to be good.

Aerozord

02-15-2010, 09:12 PM

Grunt was made with the philosophy "if only one out of a thousand krogan infants survive, we just gotta make krogans a thousand times stronger" His plan was to make it so they dont need superior numbers to steamroll the galaxy. Also remember there is a thematic power hike in this game. Before you were just a rather random group, these are the most elite warriors and scientist in the known galaxy. Take Garrus for example. This is not the Garrus you played with in ME1, this is that Garrus plus two years of intense combat experience in the most chaotic locations in the galaxy and a decent amount of cybernetic upgrades. Considering his complete lack of experience he'd have to be a superior Krogan just to fight with you

As for Jack, honestly with the loyalty mission I wish should would have regressed more. She suffered alot of trauma, I would have expected alot more PTSD from her.

BitVyper

02-15-2010, 09:30 PM

Krogan poetry is the best poetry.

Kerensky287

02-15-2010, 10:32 PM

Grunt was made with the philosophy "if only one out of a thousand krogan infants survive, we just gotta make krogans a thousand times stronger" His plan was to make it so they dont need superior numbers to steamroll the galaxy. Also remember there is a thematic power hike in this game. Before you were just a rather random group, these are the most elite warriors and scientist in the known galaxy. Take Garrus for example. This is not the Garrus you played with in ME1, this is that Garrus plus two years of intense combat experience in the most chaotic locations in the galaxy and a decent amount of cybernetic upgrades. Considering his complete lack of experience he'd have to be a superior Krogan just to fight with you

This explanation might not apply to Tali unless she's been going on some REALLY hard missions. Sure, she's a squad leader, but I was under the impression that most Quarians who are not voiced by Adam Baldwin are utter wusses. Hell, when you get the mission to recruit her, one of the reasons TIM gave for recommending her was that she had been on his team before.

I might also say that Jacob isn't all that special, but to be fair he was the main character in his own game already, so maybe main characters are in a league of their own.

Aerozord

02-15-2010, 10:54 PM

Tali isn't, her skills come from her being a mechanical genius in an enviroment geared towards developing engineering skills. Mordin for example wasn't picked for his ability to use a gun.

Plus by the looks of it Tali was always sent on the suicide missions. Despite her demeanor she has a rather high standing among her people. Definitely not your average quarian

Sithdarth

02-15-2010, 10:57 PM

According to the Codex all Biotics are Biotics because there is eezo in their nervous systems. Like specifically all Biotic powers are firing specific nerves to manipulate eezo in your nervous system to make mass effect fields. I assume that after being around all this super advanced eezo tech it, the eezo, just tends to permeate a species and given time a species will just adapt genetically to it. Asari seem to be super good with natural DNA reconfiguration what with mindginas and being able to mate with basically anything organic.

As for Grunt I remember something about Krogan fearing biotics basically on principle. Which is why Krogan biotics always ended up as officers. That's great and all but its basically a prejudice and Okeer might very well have seen it as an imperfection. Not to mention I got the feeling Grunt was supposed to be a template for the perfect Krogan soldier not the perfect Krogan officer and you can't have your officers afraid of their soldiers. By the way how long do Krogan's live naturally? With all that redundant biology and cellular regeneration they could potentially live damn near forever if they weren't so violent.

BitVyper

02-16-2010, 01:37 AM

Er.... what was up with the Sinmara Solveig Magnetic Shielding sidequest? You just land, hit a couple switches that are within five seconds of your shuttle, and leave. There's no enemies, no plot, no hooks into other sidequests.... They don't even send you a thankyou email.

I appreciate the free credits and XP, but it seemed a bit pointless. Couldn't the colony have just sent up a maintenance man or something? This doesn't seem like a very dire threat.

Krylo

02-16-2010, 01:57 AM

The very fact that you are allowed to go with Grunt to represent him as his krant means that Wrex didn't have to be alone during it. It was his thing, so he gets credit for it with help or not.

Thing is Wrex had help from two no name krogan who probably weren't anything special.

Grunt had help from a pair of characters consisting of at least one who could have done the whole thing solo.

It's the difference between doing a camp relay race with two other campers, and doing a camp relay race with a pair of olympic track stars.

DFM

02-16-2010, 02:07 AM

To be fair, Shepard gets some of the credit for it from a very special Krogan.

BitVyper

02-16-2010, 02:10 AM

To be fair, Shepard gets some of the credit for it from a very special Krogan.

Tempting as that offer was, I'm shipping Shepard and the Rachni Queen.

Aerozord

02-16-2010, 02:37 AM

we have no evidence Wrex did it with two no names, for all we know those that helped him are now powerful warlords themselves. In fact did they even say you could only bring two people? If not Wrex might have had a small army helping

Note that doesn't degrade his achievement. Commanding a bunch of kill crazy krogans is no easy task. I am just saying the circumstances are completely unknown. Maybe he had a small army, or was armed with a mini-nuke, or beat it to death with his bare hands. They give no information beyond "when wrex did it, it died"

DFM

02-16-2010, 02:41 AM

I'm assuming he's basing that on one of the books or something, "two unnamed krogan" is kinda specific to be guessing. On the other hand, I doubt the book would leave them unnamed.

Krylo

02-16-2010, 03:36 AM

we have no evidence Wrex did it with two no names, for all we know those that helped him are now powerful warlords themselves.Highly unlikely. A krantt is a krogan's most trusted friends. People willing to kill and die in HIS honor.

Given that fact a krantt, logically, would never consist of a powerful warlord or battlemaster unless it was the krantt of an equally powerful krogan. A powerful warlord wouldn't kill for the honor of someone else. They kill for their own honor.

Technically possible, however.

But, unless the warlords in question had also killed Thresher Maws, not in the same league as Shepard.

In fact did they even say you could only bring two people? If not Wrex might have had a small army helpingEntirely impossible. A krantt is, again, only the krogan's most trusted. Do you have 100 people you would call your best friend? 200 people? 300? How about even over 10?

And as for him having a mini-nuke? Also nearly impossible. Krogan are not allowed to own property until after their proving. It's highly unlikely that a krogan going into his proving would have more than the most basic equipment. Even battlemasters and warlords rarely have anything any nicer than a particularly good shotgun, armor, or assault rifle.

Further, we know that Wrex was alive not long after the Krogan rebellions. In fact he was probably born near the tail end of them, given that he was already leading a tribe immediately afterward when the various clans were talking about going back to war but hadn't gotten to it yet.

The chances of a 'powerful warlord' having time to be some young whelp's Krantt or for any large force to be dedicated to it during this time is effectively zero.

FURTHER, the chances that ANYONE he could have potentially found on that planet to take with could have held half a candle to cyborg-death-god Shepard is, well, it's less than zero.

I might remind you of how many 'krogan battlemasters' and 'krogan warlords' you're forced to tear through like paper throughout Mass Effect 1, and that's before you even have your cybernetic upgrades. And they were higher quality troops than there would have been during Wrex's krantt. It wasn't until after the genophage that krogan turned in to true killing machines, instead of just using zerg tactics.

I might also remind you of the scene in which Grunt is awakened and Shepard was more than capable of murdering him at any moment despite having awakened the 'perfect' krogan, getting jumped, and being completely outside of his/her armor.

S'rsly.

Grunt cheated.

He even says so himself. "Shepard is my battlemaster. S/He has no equal."