MASS EFFECT TWO: GIVE GARRUS A HUG

[DFM]

Also it's been mentioned before but I hope for Mass Effect 3 you play as Harbinger during ME2 trying to convince the Reaper Council that Shepard exists and is a grave threat to the Reaper Invasion.

Complete with a Reaper Councilor that makes air quotes at you with its shrimp legs.

"Ah, yes. 'Shepard"

[G.I.R.]

Also, if you listen to Okeer going on about Grunt, he doesn't necessarily even call him the perfect soldier. He talks about him being perfect in reference to the Genophage. Saying "The greatest insult to your enemy is to ignore them." or some such. So maybe... he can breed with other female krogan and have their children not be affected by the Genophage. Consider that maybe... Grunt is the cure. Not a total "halt the effects of" type cure. But it is something to consider.

[Mirai Gen]

IIRC yeah I remember Okeer saying he was a perfect Krogan, I don't think he's the perfect warrior, at least not yet. It was designed more for the genophage I believe.

Also:

http://nerfnow.com/comic/image/248

[Melfice]

The whole Grunt thing?
I think Grunt was made as a Super Soldier, rather than a cure to the genophage.

Okeer says that the greatest insult to the genophage is to ignore it. In other words, forget about the cure, and work on unification and training.
Every male Krogan born is put through the same rigorous training, instead of being "coddled" like they are now, and it's death or glory during said training.

A quote of Okeer's (Probably remembered wrongly) "They learned to fear the horde. Now let them learn to fear the lance."
In other words, the horde was terrifying. Now you'll see how terrifying it is when you've got a unit of highly trained Krogan commandos against you.

[EVILNess]

Also it's been mentioned before but I hope for Mass Effect 3 you play as Harbinger during ME2 trying to convince the Reaper Council that Shepard exists and is a grave threat to the Reaper Invasion.

Complete with a Reaper Councilor that makes air quotes at you with its shrimp legs.

"Ah, yes. 'Shepard"

I approve, with all my heart and soul.

[CABAL49]

Also, after Grunt becomes a man...er adult, be begins to realize the people he descends from. Grunt has never had any combat training of any kind. He just has his memories. Wrex was raised to be a fighter and already had some fighting experience before he fought the tresher. Also, Shepard and crew could already fight those in ME1.

[Odjn]

Wrex has been alive for about 1,100-1,200 years.

[EVILNess]

Renegade Sheppard is the best Sheppard. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PjTuSQNLI4)

Slight Spoiler warning.

[Raiden]

By the way how long do Krogan's live naturally? With all that redundant biology and cellular regeneration they could potentially live damn near forever if they weren't so violent.

They can live for well over a thousand years. Krogan are honestly the only other species in which an Asari can find a life-long relationship. If one of their hearts shuts down, then the other ones simply pick up the slack.

It's why, usually, Battlemasters are so feared in the galaxy. Because you aren't just facing down someone who has the respect of other Krogan. You're facing down a guy who has spent the last 600+ years turning killing into a viable profession.

Also, when it comes to Grunt, Okeer made him a genetically perfect Krogan. He used tech from the collectors and took the best genetic traits of all the past Krogan Warlords. Okeer was seeking to turn the Krogan legacy from one of numbers to one of pure combat physiology. So genetically, Grunt is superior to those alive, and will produce superior children.

When it comes to skill, though, he's still learning. The tank gave him a massive instruction booklet and he KNOWS things. Everything there is to know about being a Krogan or combat, he knows it. He just doesn't know how to use that knowledge. He knows a hundred different ways to pry the crest off a Turian's skull, but you never really know how to do it until you try it. Wrex at his proving had both knowledge and experience. Grunt had knowledge. I mean, even if you took a while, he'd have only been out of the tank for about a week. Imagine only starting walking a week ago, and then having to go kill *spoiler*. That's rough. But after a few years of experience, he'll get it together, though he'll never be Officer material. He's a soldier, out to make soldier children, and is happy in his role.

[Aerozord]

Krylo I meant they might have become warlords not that they were. No one ever said Wrex didn't have powerful friends. Wrex earned the respect of his peers now, I dont see why you doubt he did the same then.

Something also occured to me about Jack, their super biotic program was easily the most retarded Cerberus plan in the entire game. Even if it worked they'd have an army of super biotics that would love nothing more then to rip out your spleen after the years of torture it took to turn them into super biotics.

PS I think they gave abit more personality to paragon and renegade options. Paragon shepard is laid back and sarcastic, renegade is aggressive and cocky.

Like they were being threatened
Renegade: "You are gonna get out of my way or I'll decorate this hallway with the inside of your skull"
Paragon: "hmm yes but you seem to be forgetting, I have a gun."

Both options result in threatening the person to get them to stand down. But the tone and method differ. Making renegade and paragon choices more of a choice between demeanor then actions

[CABAL49]

Something also occured to me about Jack, their super biotic program was easily the most retarded Cerberus plan in the entire game. Even if it worked they'd have an army of super biotics that would love nothing more then to rip out your spleen after the years of torture it took to turn them into super biotics.


Jack's group was a rouge Cerberus group. Also their job was research, not to produce an army. They were only in testing phase.

[Solid Snake]

Jack's group was a rouge Cerberus group. Also their job was research, not to produce an army. They were only in testing phase.

...We've all actually played ME1, right?
Because having just recently played ME1, I mean, this is the same group that thought husks and rachni testing in colonies were awesome ideas. And then they acted shocked when it backfired and they all ended up dying. (Or Shepard showed up, and then they all ended up dying.)

I mean perhaps the most shocking component of ME2 so far is the Illusive Man, insofar as ME1 left me with this impression that Cerberus was run by a legion of right-wing xenophobic buffoons, kind of like Fox News in the 22nd Century, and then suddenly the Illusive Man and Miranda show up and they sound not retarded.

In retrospect it would have been awesome if ME2 actually went in that direction and cast, like, Glenn Beck as the Illusive Man, Michael Steele as Jacob and Sarah Palin as Miranda. (Then Rachel Maddow would be perfect for Jack!)

...Maybe they can still do that with the Terra Firma party in ME3?

EDIT: I actually am now fully convinced that with the right strategy, Bioware could go up to Glenn Beck and pitch the concept of him being a pro-humanity advocate in a sci-fi universe and Glenn Beck would actually sign up for it out of genuine belief that if he lived in the 22nd Century he'd be a member of the Terra Firma party.
...Which is exactly why this has to happen. Don't let me down, Bioware!

[DFM]

If Glenn Beck is in ME3 I don't think that I'll buy it.

[Aerozord]

actually does make sense. Apparently how it works is they are given an assignment, then granted complete autonomy so if one cell is busted they are the only ones affected. One log even said they were hiding the super biotic program from the Illusive Man with the assumption that when it works he'll agree the ends justify the means. Though personally I think he'd only disapprove because testing was being done on humans and if they did the same with, lets say asari kids he wouldn't have given it a second thought. But thats just me
Jack's group was a rouge Cerberus group. Also their job was research, not to produce an army. They were only in testing phase.

and what about when they were done? They were testing methods that they couldn't use. Jack was powerful and crazy for the exact same reasons. Using their techniques they'd get the same thing

[Solid Snake]

Oh come on.
Imagine Shepherd meeting Glenn Beck's character and having renegade options.
(Or I guess more accurately it'd be Paragon options that essentially resulted in Shepherd nonetheless acting like a renegade.)

Are you sure you wouldn't buy it? Because I'm pretty sure you would.

[DFM]

No, I'm not sure I'm just saying that I don't think anything you could do to Glenn Beck would make it worth having him tainting the game.

[Azisien]

I think I'll take a reverse-Reaper-Harbinger plot line over some dumb ass US politicians for ME3. Though the way I understood it, Harbinger was a Reaper, all cranky and ready to nom-nom some organics in dark space, so I think the Reapers believe 'em.

I am quite curious what will happen for ME3. Since I think you can play ME3 if Shepard dies, unless there's specifically a game over screen, and if so who would you play as?

[Krylo]

Devs have already answered that one Azi.

You can't import Shep corpse. Shep dying means you reroll in ME3.

[Aerozord]

You can't import Shep corpse.

But that means no ME version of Weekend at Bernie's

[Sithdarth]

I just realized that Okeer is totally a Krogan Nazi and Grunt is totally his idea of an Aryan Krogan. Which explains so much as too why Grunt isn't nearly as awesome as Wrex. Genetic purity is nice and all but it doesn't equate to anything actually necessarily useful. I look at it like Okeer, being a Nazi Krogan Scientist, was under the impression that a genetically perfect Krogan must be the absolute best Krogan warrior especially given general Krogan traits. In reality he could have gotten a true super soldier by ignoring his misguided ideas of genetic purity and just scrambling Grunt's genetic code into something totally awesome.

Also, why do I find something ironic about Krogan Nazis?

[Aerozord]

on a related note, in the codex entry on human biotics people like those that conditioned Jack are actually refered to as people wanting nazi supermen (they use the proper term but I'm too lazy to look)

[Mr.Bookworm]

on a related note, in the codex entry on human biotics people like those that conditioned Jack are actually refered to as people wanting nazi supermen (they use the proper term but I'm too lazy to look)

You mean Übermensch? Not even close to "Nazi superman" (well, good ol' Fred was German, and the Nazis were German, and I guess that's sorta similar maybe). Though it does literally mean superman.

[DFM]

But that means no ME version of Weekend at Bernie's

They should let you play as the Shepard VI.

[Solid Snake]

...All's I gotta say right now is I just met Mass Effect 2's best new non-playable supporting character, and his name is Kal'Reegar.

Please be playable in ME3, Kal'Reegar.

[DFM]

Everyone loves Kal'Reegar and I will be honest I don't really know why.

Is it the accent?

[Solid Snake]

It's how insanely badass he is when you first meet him.

...And he's a Quarian. You see the thing I have against Grunt and Wrex is, as amazingly awesome as they both are, they're both born Krogan, so you expect them to be able to punch holes through Thresher Maws. If they didn't punch holes through Thresher Maws, they wouldn't be Krogans.
But a Quarian? You expect those guys to cower in ditches.
...But not Kal'Reegar. Kal'Reegar doesn't care what he was born as or who he is, he is going to kick your ass anyway.

(...Short answer: I always root for the underdogs who excel almost despite their heritage, and I sort of catch that vibe with Kal'Reegar.)

[Sifright]

Or it could just be adam baldwins voice showing through nah I jest Kal reegar was alright character :) Seriously though what was it with the Quarian loyalty mission and throwing every celeb voice under the sun into it? :|

[Mirai Gen]

It's pretty much been western RPG staples to find huge-name voice actors to fill exactly one role. It's getting a bit annoying.

I was alright with Liam Nissen playing Ra's al Dad in Fallout 3 but going over the cast list shows like 99% former-actors-turned-VAs in all of Bioware's last few games.

[Kerensky287]

I just liked how Kal'Reegar was like, "Yeah, sure, I'm a member of a race of what are essentially gypsy super-nerds, but even though I was just shot in the leg (which would normally cause a near-fatal allergic reaction) I'm still practically insisting on charging in with a rocket launcher!"

I just started what is technically my 4th playthrough today (concurrently with 2 others though). I'm on Casual difficulty because I want to see what it's like to import an ME2 character, and I don't like the guy I played as last time. For now I'm trying a Renegade playthrough for the first time... so fittingly, I'm playing a Soldier named Havoc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3J8lV-u6O8&feature=PlayList&p=9FE623784A9305E9&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=35). He wears GDI-gold and blue, doesn't take no guff from no one, and uses a Hand Cannon exclusively. This is totally okay because Adrenaline Rush and Casual Difficulty combine to make headshots 1-or-2-shot kills. "And THAT was left-handed!"

In my other playthrough as an Adept on Insane, it took me about 12 hours to get to the point where I am. In my playthrough as Havoc, I've reached the same point in 2 hours. It's pretty awesome never dying from bullets.

[Azisien]

Devs have already answered that one Azi.

You can't import Shep corpse. Shep dying means you reroll in ME3.

Now with a plethora of absolutely horrible default game decisions instead of just 5!

[BitVyper]

The fuck? The paragon dialogue option in Zaeed's loyalty mission was closed to me, but I've got Paragon maxed. Anyone else have this problem?

[Solid Snake]

Now with a plethora of absolutely horrible default game decisions instead of just 5!

Man it'd be awesome if default for ME3 involved everyone dying in suicide mission. Everyone. Except Shepard. The entire crew's dead, all the squad members are dead, and none of the optional side characters from ME1 and ME2 are introduced. And then there's only something like four new characters introduced in ME3, and all the rest of the characters only appear if you played ME1 and ME2 reasonably well.

I'd just enjoy all the bitching from incompetent gamers who either A: never thought about purchasing the earlier ME titles or B: somehow found a way to get everyone killed in ME2 and thought that was a typical, linear experience for the game. And honestly my only desire for ME3 is to continue to be able to alternate Garrus, Mordin and Tali in and out of my party. Maybe add Liara, Ashley and Wrex back into the mix, but that's about all I need.
Oh, but lest I forget! Kal'Reegar had better be a squad member. Now that would be the perfect game.

[Sithdarth]

Speaking of Zaeed after talking to him for a bit I totally want to recruit that Hanar that almost killed him even though its probably dead. It'd be awesome to roll out with Mordin spouting sciency crap on the left while the Hanar droned on about the Enkindlers to my right while choking geth with its tentacles. Totally has to be a love interest for Shepard of any gender too.

[BitVyper]

tentacles... love interest... any gender

Still pullin for the Rachni queen as Shep's canon ship, but this could work too.

[DFM]

Just wanted to add this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPWs5xdAIRQ) because I honestly expected that to happen after half the renegade lines.

Especially "You're working too hard."

[Red Fighter 1073]

The fuck? The paragon dialogue option in Zaeed's loyalty mission was closed to me, but I've got Paragon maxed. Anyone else have this problem?

Yeah I've heard it's actually a glit-ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

[Yumil]

I always thought that Hanar was Blasto.

[Kerensky287]

Yeah I've heard it's actually a glit-ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

I'm going to ruin that right now the one way I c
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb22/Kerensky287/not%20LP/collectordog.jpg

[Yumil]

THIS HURTS YOU.

[DFM]

NOTHING CAN HURT ME


Grunt and Harbinger actually sound like they've having a back and forth through random combat taunts.

[stefan]

I always thought that Hanar was Blasto.

I swear upon all sorts of dark gods that if blasto isn't a recruit-able party member in ME3 there will be deaths in bioware.


well, Blasto and an elcor with an anti-ship cannon strapped to its back.

[Yumil]

Just as long as we dont recruit a collector.

[Mirai Gen]

The collectors really aren't bad; they're just slaves to the Harbinger.

[Kerensky287]

The collectors really aren't bad; they're just slaves to the Harbinger.

As much as I like Legion, I swear I will disavow the series if there turns out to be an "extra faction" of Collectors that refuse to be controlled by the Reapers.

[Marc v4.0]

As much as I like Legion, I swear I will disavow the series if there turns out to be an "extra faction" of Collectors that refuse to be controlled by the Reapers.

Legion wasn't so much part of an extra faction as he was just a normal Geth. The others were radicals.

[Mirai Gen]

Yeah Legion turning out to be on the 'good' Geth side and the rest were all radicalists who were reprogrammed by the Reapers (or maybe it was Sovreign) was a clever twist, since I honestly didn't expect a Geth to talk, let alone join me.

But if they pull it a second time about the Collectors I'm going to be pissed.

[DFM]

You find him in the body of a derelict Geth dropship, and he saves you from a bunch of hoppers.

[Mannix]

I'm going to ruin that right now the one way I c
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb22/Kerensky287/not%20LP/collectordog.jpg

Here's another one for y

[Toastburner B]

As much as I like Legion, I swear I will disavow the series if there turns out to be an "extra faction" of Collectors that refuse to be controlled by the Reapers.

I do not find that likely to happen as the Reapers have had 50,000+ years to genetically modify / mentally twist the Collectors/Protheans into an utterly loyal slave race.

[Mirai Gen]

I'm pretty sure they won't - we're just mocking the idea of recruiting a Collector.

[Azisien]

With all seriousness though, I expect either a hanar or an elcor party member in ME3. I'd love both, but I'll settle for one or the other. I want to see that codex entry about elcor mounting cannons in their backs in combat, in person.

[Melfice]

With all seriousness though, I expect either a hanar or an elcor party member in ME3. I'd love both, but I'll settle for one or the other. I want to see that codex entry about elcor mounting cannons in their backs in combat, in person.

Also, we need Hamlet as performed by the Elcor.

It'll be like Mordin doing Gilbert and Sullivan, except you can't skip the cutscene and it'll last 20 minutes.

[Azisien]

I'm down. They could do like one scene, that'll be 20 minutes.

[CABAL49]

Shouldn't there be a couple of Protheans on Illos?

[Krylo]

Shouldn't there be a couple of Protheans on Illos?

No.

The power failed and most of the Protheans died. Those that survived built the conduit/starved while working on it and then headed to the citadel and reprogrammed the keepers and then died there.

[G.I.R.]

No.

The power failed and most of the Protheans died. Those that survived built the conduit/starved while working on it and then headed to the citadel and reprogrammed the keepers and then died there.

Pffft... This is Sci-Fi... If it has taught us anything, it's that even if a "Species" is "dead", somehow they can be brought back into existence. Somehow, Sheppard and team will find a planet in an Uncharted system where they will find a Prothean encased in ice/amber or in some sort of stasis pod-like thing. Or someone will get infected with a Prothean DNA Virus and become a Half Human/Half Prothean hybrid. They'll do it if they want to!

[DFM]

They won't though, because it'll be stupid as hell. Even more so than fighting a giant terminator.

[Aerozord]

They won't though, because it'll be stupid as hell. Even more so than fighting a giant terminator.

though thats basically what they did with Shepard

[Osterbaum]

Shepard doesn't have Prothean DNA. As far as I understand it, It's a nuerological inprint.

[krogothwolf]

The Proethan's are extinct now all thanks to Shepard eradicating the collectors

[Dauntasa]

The Proethan's are extinct now all thanks to Shepard eradicating the collectors

So you think Shepard got them all? Seems like that was just their main base. There'll probably be a couple kicking around in ME3, but they won't be a main enemy. Sort of what happened with the Geth; they showed up every once in a while, but they weren't bloody everywhere like in ME1. Anyway, I say that the key to finding out what the Reapers are really all about lies with the Keepers, somehow.

[krogothwolf]

So you think Shepard got them all? Seems like that was just their main base. There'll probably be a couple kicking around in ME3, but they won't be a main enemy. Sort of what happened with the Geth; they showed up every once in a while, but they weren't bloody everywhere like in ME1. Anyway, I say that the key to finding out what the Reapers are really all about lies with the Keepers, somehow.

It's been pretty much implied in the game that the Collectors are gone plus ME 1 never said they eliminated the Geth, at all. So I figure that we wont see them again in ME 3.

[Mirai Gen]

It wouldn't be so far-flung to assume the Collectors are dead and a new enemy will pop up in ME3. Some sort of Reaper-grunt, maybe.

[Aerozord]

They wont have alot of collectors for the same reason you rarely see geth, you already fought plenty of them.

Shepard doesn't have Prothean DNA. As far as I understand it, It's a nuerological inprint.

I meant the reviving from the dead thing. Apparently all it takes to raise the dead is a few years and 500 billion credits.

[Azisien]

Well yeah, with 22nd century technology! And Shepard's corpse was nicely preserved by the horrible re-entry!

[DFM]

The only reason we have Egyptian mummies at all is because all the pyramids fell into a lava pit and the insane heat fused the mummies in time.

Along with all their treasures, protected by god so that the white man may pilfer them.

[Toastburner B]

It wouldn't be so far-flung to assume the Collectors are dead and a new enemy will pop up in ME3. Some sort of Reaper-grunt, maybe.

I think they already have Reaper-grunts in the form of Husks. At least, there seems to be a goodly bit of resemblance between husks and the human-reaper. So if I had to guess, I'd say the enemies in ME3 will be different husk variations.

Ugh...Collector-husks. How freakin' creepy and wrong-looking would that be?

[krogothwolf]

Well, maybe it'll be going to reapers and battling inside them! fighting against whatever-reaper hybrid husks in them till you kill the reaper inside the reaper.

Or something.

[Mirai Gen]

PROTIP: Juhani = Jack.

[Osterbaum]

Juhani is a male name in finnish. That's why I couldn't recruit her with straight face.

[DFM]

PROTIP: Juhani = Jack.

They're both girls?

[Mirai Gen]

Same voice actor.

[DFM]

I probably would've noticed if only Juhani had sworn more. Or at all.

[Aerozord]

Juhani is a male name in finnish. That's why I couldn't recruit her with straight face.

umm, you do know Jack is a male name in english?

[Melfice]

umm, you do know Jack is a male name in english?

It can also be used short for Jackie, Jacqueline and probably some other names.
Somehow, I think Juhani is an exclusively male name.

[bluestarultor]

It can also be used short for Jackie, Jacqueline and probably some other names.
Somehow, I think Juhani is an exclusively male name.

As a native English speaker, I can vouch that calling a woman "Jack" for short is nearly unheard of, regardless of her name, and I think that was pretty much the point. Jack was given a male name on purpose, probably both to emphasize that she doesn't want to be seen as weak, and because it's short, quick, crude, and incredibly common, which fits her personality and gives her anonymity.

[Osterbaum]

Somehow, I think Juhani is an exclusively male name.
Reply With Quote
This.

On a side note, what if we started calling Melfice "Mel" for short?

[Melfice]

This.

On a side note, what if we started calling Melfice "Mel" for short?

Mel's an ambiguous name. Works for me. ;)

Also, Blues, while it may be uncommon of, I'm sure it's not unheard of.

[Mirai Gen]

Jack was given a male name on purpose, probably both to emphasize that she doesn't want to be seen as weak, and because it's short, quick, crude, and incredibly common, which fits her personality and gives her anonymity.

Or, you know, because Bioware was tricking the player into believing Jack was a male, something your teammates even comment on when you go to pick her up and it's revealed it's a woman.

[Krylo]

Or, you know, because Bioware was tricking the player into believing Jack was a male, something your teammates even comment on when you go to pick her up and it's revealed it's a woman.

Except she was all over the promotional material as a female.

[Mirai Gen]

The game itself plays it as a big reveal, regardless of what EA's PR department cooked up.

[Kim]

Just started playing, and not having any real problems with reading stuff so YAY! I haven't checked the Codex out though. I'm running a renegade, but sometimes I pick the Paragon option because I feel like I should.

Every time I see the Illusive Man I keep thinking it should be spelled Elusive. *shrug*

Gameplay is fun and solid, though I notice that sometimes textures pop in a moment late, but that's not a big deal.

So far so good!

[Mirai Gen]

I can't be Renegade to my crew. They're all kickass.

Also
http://questionablecontent.net/random/krogans.png

[bluestarultor]

Every time I see the Illusive Man I keep thinking it should be spelled Elusive. *shrug*

It really depends on whether he's hard to find or if he communicates almost entirely by hologram. Illusive is a synonym for illusory, as in an illusion.

[Kim]

It really depends on whether he's hard to find or if he communicates almost entirely by hologram. Illusive is a synonym for illusory, as in an illusion.

...Fuck.

The game froze when I was playing just now, but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt and assume it's because my console is full of dust. I don't have a can of air. Nobody in my county, let alone city, sells those.

If I had to make a minor complaint, it'd be that the game doesn't automatically pause if your controller dies. This kinda sucks if your controller runs out of battery during a fight because you're eating lead until you can get it on again and pause.

[Osterbaum]

Who the hell ever thought that wireless controllers were a good idea, anyway?

[bluestarultor]

Who the hell ever thought that wireless controllers were a good idea, anyway?

People who actually play games in their living rooms?

[DFM]

Which looks like pretty much everyone because they're insanely popular. Also it's Illusive Man, not Elusive Man, no multiple interpretations or anything.

[Solid Snake]

...WHAT THE FLYING FUCK

I JUST BEAT THE HUMAN REAPER. THEN SHEPARD SAYS SOMETHING LIKE "WHAT'S YOUR STATUS, GROUND TEAM?" AND THEN MY GODDAMN GAME FROZE.

FFFFUUUUCCCCKKKK

[stefan]

so yeah, playing my infiltrator through a second round of the game and found out I can't get the Widow rifle because I tried to diversify by taking an assault rifle in my first playthrough.

fuck

[Aerozord]

on the final boss. Any one else feel it both came out of left field, while still being predictable? I mean soon as I saw it I knew I'd have to fight it, but thats because I played enough games to know I'd have to fight it for no reason, but to have a big final boss battle even though there is no reason for it to attack

[CABAL49]

on the final boss. Any one else feel it both came out of left field, while still being predictable? I mean soon as I saw it I knew I'd have to fight it, but thats because I played enough games to know I'd have to fight it for no reason, but to have a big final boss battle even though there is no reason for it to attack

After Metal Gear Solid, nothing is a surprise anymore.

[Solid Snake]

Well I finally beat it.
Everyone survived. Everyone. Even every last person on the Normandy crew. I was actually sincerely disappointed at how easy it was to keep everyone alive. The one true moment of suspense was actually early on, when I had Legion as the techie and listened to his updates while turning on the cooling systems. That entire portion of the game was just tense as hell, and probably my favorite part of the final sequence: I had Garrus and Tali with me, Harbinger was shouting his taunts, Legion and Jacob (my fire team leader) were both in life-threatening circumstances. In fact, by comparison the final boss was actually kind of lame -- not difficult at all to defeat.

I kept Garrus and Tali in my party through the entire Collector base. It just felt right. And words will not be capable of expressing my disappointment if Bioware doesn't bring 'em back in ME3. It's strange how, despite genuinely liking the rest of the cast, I would be comfortable if only three characters returned (Garrus, Tali, Mordin.) But those three characters absolutely have to return as squadmates in ME3 -- if they don't there will be hell to pay.

After playing through Tali's loyalty mission I think it would be impossible for any male Shepard to choose anyone over her. I was debating my romance options for some time but when you get the Paragon interrupt to hug Tali after learning about her father it's just like, fuck, none of the other women remotely compare. I actually felt bad for Jack and Miranda because they were pining for my Shepard and their undeveloped, boring human asses didn't stand a chance.

I'm just sad that the trek is over. It was a beautiful, beautiful game. Given how widely divergent the paragon and renegade plotlines appear to be this time around it's difficult to imagine exactly how Bioware's going to approach ME3.

[Mirai Gen]

This is all true 100%, but I just want to say...
The one true moment of suspense was actually early on, when I had Legion as the techie and listened to his updates while turning on the cooling systems. That entire portion of the game was just tense as hell, and probably my favorite part of the final sequence: I had Garrus and Tali with me, Harbinger was shouting his taunts, Legion and Jacob (my fire team leader) were both in life-threatening circumstances.

Oh man, no kidding. I was seriously leaning forward, hands almost shaking, my heart pounding as I rushed to get to the next checkpoint. Legion was so awesome and damn it I wanted everyone to survive, because I loved my team. That ending was absolutely nerve-wracking and heart-pounding.

I think that this sequence taking place in the second game was the smartest decision Bioware could possibly have done. It establishes via Mass Effect 1 that characters who die have real consequences to your later games, and with ME3 on the distant horizon it really makes your team feel mortal. By calling it "the Suicide Mission" it makes a shout out to HEY not everyone's going to come back from this one! So you better make it count!

The clues were staring me in the face the whole time but I'll be damned if it wasn't a hard decision each time.

Aaaaaaaanyway I'll have all this and more next Friday at the usual place but god damn I loved that final mission. Also: Garrus' Loyalty Mission. Hot diggity.

[Solid Snake]

Oh, one more note while I'm at it: Did anyone else feel kind of bad for that Collector after Harbinger relinquished control and abandoned them? I actually wondered at that moment if the ex-Prothean got back a fragment of his free will -- just in time to witness his own destruction.

But I really think one of the smartest implementations in Mass Effect 2 was all the in-combat dialogue. Not only in regards to communicating new threats and whatnot with your squadmates, but also Harbinger and all his awesome taunts. Harbinger is one of my favorite ME2 characters and he barely has an impact aside from a few cycled quotes uttered during battles. (I really do hope Shepard faces off against Harbinger in ME3.) And was it just me, or was Garrus much more effusive to Shepard in his in-battle compliments? Lots of characters would occasionally give Shepard props for killing an enemy, but whenever I brought Garrus around, he seemed much more vocal in his support. "Nice one!" If Bioware actually deliberately programmed it that way, it adds a whole new layer to the bromance.

[Mirai Gen]

I think they were trying to turn Garrus into Shepard's buddy - it really adds to the level of humanity to have Shepard not only have a team of loyal comrades and a romantic interest, but a long-standing friend, you know? This was why I was so glad to have them banter after his injury - instead of trying to comfort or placate him all Shepard does is give him shit.

But it pretty much all pales in the face of sexing him/bromance. "I would suggest not, er...ingesting."

[Solid Snake]

Honestly I think the one romantic possibility that would have threatened to derail my Shepard / Tali pairing would involve Garrus. And it says something good about Bioware when they create a character so awesome that a heterosexual male would consider having his avatar go gay to seduce him.

I mean the platonic bromance is perfectly awesome, don't get me wrong. But if Bioware included a "seduce Garrus" option for male Shepards, I don't think I'd be capable of resisting. And I'm probably not the only one.

...But yeah, I'm going to be really torn with my femShepard and whether she should pursue Garrus or stay loyal to Liara. That's going to be a tough decision. But first, I'd have to replay Mass Effect 1 -- and I probably won't have time to do so until summer.

[Mirai Gen]

And I'm probably not the only one.Trust me - you aren't.

I'm going FemShep Paragon soon - I was thinking about doing male and going for Tali since I porked Miranda - and I'm totally springing for Garrus. No pun intended.

I don't remember where but I heard at one point that Garrus makes mention that he's never been attracted to other species before. "Just Shepard."

[Kim]

I think my favorite part of the game so far is either punching that goddamn reporter or drinking it up with the Doc. I wanna say the latter because it was awesome and then afterwards Shephard was drunk as FUCK.

[Osterbaum]

That was also a nice add to the game. Having a drink with the doc, who was already aboard the SR1, adds a certain level of continuity and nostalgia. It was great.

"Here's to just being happily drunk!"

[Gregness]

Trust me - you aren't.

I'm going FemShep Paragon soon - I was thinking about doing male and going for Tali since I porked Miranda - and I'm totally springing for Garrus. No pun intended.

I don't remember where but I heard at one point that Garrus makes mention that he's never been attracted to other species before. "Just Shepard."


He's just not going to pretend he has a fetish for humans is all. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lJORVCvJW0)

It's a great sort of attention to detail that lets Bioware approach aliens having sex with humans as a fetish.

[BitVyper]

I'm not entirely convinced that she isn't always drunk.

Edit: I kind of wish Bioware would make the character relationships a bit more complex and natural than just "go and talk to this person after every mission and do their special quest." Have things crop up in play that affect it more often, and have it affect their random dialogue/quips. Also I wouldn't mind seeing more in the way of developing relationships between the crew. Like if you successfully get Tali and Legion to play nice, maybe they'd start to build some mutual respect and understanding, and instead of just having them in the same place all the time, you might catch them having some generic NPC dialogue around the ship to that effect. Yeah, I'd definitely like to see the party members do more than wait for me to talk to them. Star Ocean 3 had party members split up when you were in a town to do their own things. Something like that would be nice to see.

In another game, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but your relationship with your crew plays pretty heavily into the plot of ME. The way it's being done right now makes it seem like they never talk to each other, even when they indicate that they have.

Also Garrus being on the receiving end of workplace sexual harassment from the yeoman would just be awesomely hilarious.

Edit: Sorry; sexual harassment is never funny.

Except if it happens to Garrus.

[Kim]

Just did Jacob's mission. Was fun and cool but of course it would be.


I'm starting to realize that although I don't really feel either way about the act of mining, goddamn there is far too much in this game if you want to be getting upgrades. I mean holy shit I've spent almost as much time mining as advancing the plot. What the crap.

[Azisien]

Yup. Console mining is absolutely horrible. I thought it was decent on the PC because you can go about three times as fast as the consoles, but hell, I even got a tiny little bit bored of THAT after 40 hours. Luckily by that point I had double the resources needed to max everything. I'd gift you some if I could. :sweatdrop

[Solid Snake]

I waited until I got the upgrade (I believe Miranda offers it to you) to do most my mining and I only scanned the resources I absolutely needed for upgrades (though I ended up with too much Palladium, anyway.) It worked out fine for me. Oh, note that if you need Platinum, you should restrict harvesting to icy worlds: you'll vastly increase your Platinum intake there.

Quick Import question for those in the know: How exactly does the New Game + option work in regards to importing ME2 data to ME3? Has anything been announced, or should we presume it works similarly to ME1 --> ME2's system? I'm considering a New Game + jaunt with my male-paragon character but I'm worried that if I choose renegade options this time around -- or choose anyone other than Tali as a romance option -- that the choices in my second playthrough would override my first. On the flip side, it'd suck to be confined in a New Game + to making the exact same decisions I made the first time around, in order to ensure those decisions translate to ME3...

[Red Fighter 1073]

I believe that when you beat a New Game+, the game treats it as a completely different save, so you could choose to import Paragon Shepard (Lvl 20) or import Renegade Shepard (Lvl 30) or something like that I'm guessing. Especially as you'll notice when you start a NG+, the game will treat it as a "New Career" where, when you start to save in that NG+, it will be the first save on the file, and will not be among the other 200 saves you made in the previous career. Hopefully, I didn't make that sound too confusing :sweatdrop

[stefan]

I think angry joe had it right when he said that a fog of war mechanic for scanning would make it so much easier to bear.

[TheSaylesMan]

Anybody else a bit displeased that you can't get Garrus to use the magic scar erasing machine? I know I was. On my first play-through, that thing popped up in the the upgrades menu right after I got through Garrus' mission. I didn't know how the whole loyalty thing worked so I figured that maybe if I managed to help him out in that regard than it would trigger his loyalty or something.

So I spent the 50,000 platinum, the rarest and most useful mineral, on that med bay upgrade and it was completely useless to me because I was playing a paragon and my scars were already going away. Here's hoping that if you buy that stupid thing than Garrus will be looking like his old self in ME3.

[Osterbaum]

I prefer Garrus the way he is now. Makes him look like he's really been around.

[Kim]

This game has too many fucking characters. There do not need to be this many. I'm liking the game still, but this is ridiculous. I don't want more characters I just want to chill with the ones I've got. I'd rather have two loyalty missions per character and have six characters than have character recruiting missions for twelve characters when I'll never use the majority of them.

[Mirai Gen]

On mining: Ask your crewmen about Normandy Upgrades, and get the mining tool. Makes it slightly less ear-rippingly painful.

[Solid Snake]

This game has too many fucking characters. There do not need to be this many. I'm liking the game still, but this is ridiculous. I don't want more characters I just want to chill with the ones I've got. I'd rather have two loyalty missions per character and have six characters than have character recruiting missions for twelve characters when I'll never use the majority of them.

Strongly disagree with you there. The reason why Chrono Cross sucked wasn't because of the plethora of characters, but rather because the immense number of characters simply weren't developed enough. You need look no further than the likes of the fellowship in Lord of the Rings or the likes of George R.R. Martin's immense cast of characters to come to the conclusion that sheer quantity does not always negate quality.
Mass Effect 2, like those examples, gives you the best of both worlds: a numerous and (for the most part) thoroughly well-developed group of squadmates to choose from. Even Jacob has a pretty kickass loyalty quest.

I'm not going to complain about a game that spoils me to the point that I wish there were even more missions to bond with every member of the crew.

[Mirai Gen]

I felt that way until I talked to them more. I started out finding nothing interesting about Mordin. He felt like a total gimmick, "Oh, haha, he talks really fast, it's funny." Then I talked to him more and did his loyalty mission and wow he became awesome fast.

[Arcanum]

On mining: Ask your crewmen about Normandy Upgrades, and get the mining tool. Makes it slightly less ear-rippingly painful.

Also, tap the left trigger (or whatever the scan button for the PC is) while moving the scan cursor instead of holding it. Sooo much faster.

[Aerozord]

also found it helps to rotate the planet while doing it. Not much of an increase but take what you can get

[Kim]

Yeah, I already do all of those things.


To expound on why I think there are too many characters...


There are six classes in the game, and there are probably close to double that many characters. We've got a bit of redundancy, and although I'm certain someone will point out how Soldier Class Character A is so incredibly different from Soldier Class Character B, I'm honestly not going to notice the difference. I assume that the characters level in the background, but even then I don't really see why I'd switch from one party member to another party member who fills the exact same role when I've been spending all that time leveling the first. From a direct gameplay perspective, the game doesn't need these many characters.


Counter: Yeah, but you're supposed to do their loyalty missions because they have different bonus powers and that makes them play different and then Shepard can get a fancy pants bonus power via upgrades etc. (In this bit I'm assuming different characters of the same class have different bonus powers. I haven't checked.)


Okay, but I still don't see how this would not only be resolved but also improved by having two loyalty missions and two bonus powers for these characters. As bare bones as the leveling system is in this one, it certainly wouldn't have hurt.


The only reason these characters seem to be in the game is so Bioware can show off what amazing character writers they are. I'll probably like them once I talk to them, but I find I'm unable to motivate myself to get to know these characters because I'm never going to use them and the only incentive gameplay-wise to talk to them, for me at least, is so that I won't miss some fancy wonderful cutscene or mission or whatever-the-hell when I import my save in Mass Effect 3.


It's especially frustrating because I'm only ever actually using a sixth of the characters that Bioware is trying to make me fall in love with, I have quite literally half a dozen Loyalty Missions to do for these characters I'll never use, and I still don't have all the characters. In the words of Diablo II, "I am overburdened."

[Aerozord]

when I've been spending all that time leveling the first. From a direct gameplay perspective, the game doesn't need these many characters.


characters level whether they are in your party or not. So its more of a choice of who you prefer as a traveling companion.

Look at it like this, Say you prefer Legion over Tali as your tech specialist. Well some prefer Tali over Legion. You are viewing it from the idea that its better to have one person that most love then two options everyone likes. Its giving choice to the players about who they personally like more. Its why you are given more then just two people even though you can never take more then that.

[Mirai Gen]

I've been spending all that time leveling the first.
Wait, what, thirty seconds?

I mean I will admit that ME2 has a lot of very similar characters - many of them operate subtly different despite the similar classes, of course - but ME2 makes it far less arduous compared to ME1.

There's lots of subtle gameplay differences between characters, mostly in powers composition. For example, Garrus' Concussive Shot does far more damage than most of the other different Concussive Shots in the game because his is done with a sniper rifle, and he also has Overload. You could take Miranda who also has Overload, but she doesn't have assault rifles or snipers, no Concussive Shot, but she does have Warp. Or you could take Grunt, but his Concussive Shot does less damage since he doesn't have sniper rifles, despite that he doesn't have Overload, but he does have like a million hit points.

EDIT: Sides the conversations start out kinda boring but after you get in you really start to dig them. Grunt and Mordin started off boring until you got deeper into their conversations, and all Loyalty missions are more gunfights to get into.

[Kim]

Wait, what, thirty seconds?

No, the time I spent playing with them in my party, but like Azis said, and I suspected, they'll still level in the background even if you don't use them.

There's lots of subtle gameplay differences between characters, mostly in powers composition.

Probably, but this is stuff I'm quite honestly not going to notice. Should I notice? Maybe. But I don't.


I'd say Azis argument about it being so you could choose which characters you like out of the classes, but that doesn't affect things, and if it does, it's almost completely unnoticeable. Maybe if the party was constantly having talks with one another during missions that were so well-written I would literally stop walking to watch them talk (AKA Exactly what happened all the time in Dragon Age: Origins), I'd say picking who you like as a character matters, but that doesn't happen so it doesn't matter.

[Azisien]

I tended to micro-manage my squad mates powers a lot, so picking between the different characters mattered to me a bit.

However, post-discussion with my other friends who've played the game, I think there's just enough characters. Reasoning? To my surprise, some of my friends didn't really like the characters I liked. It led me to the realization, that at least the slightly larger cast gives a wider spectra of people choice of personality. I wouldn't roll with Jack under any circumstances. My buddy wouldn't play without Jack. Should we remove Jack?

I mean, if there were characters we didn't like *cough Miranda* we could just not play with them. You can do their recruitment and do your best to skip their loyalty missions, and with luck watch them die!

[Mirai Gen]

No, the time I spent playing with them in my party, but like Azis said, and I suspected, they'll still level in the background even if you don't use them.
They do. It's actually my favorite thing about ME2 - everyone scales levels with each other, and if you ever want to play with a new ally you pick them, level them up, select their gun loadout, and drop into the combat zone. That's why your comment confused me; time spent leveling them up is like, thirty seconds of deciding which powers to dump points into.

Sure there's no way to grind that doesn't involve collecting more minerals and buffing out their upgrades or guns, but it means I'm not permanently locked into using only a few characters like I was in ME1.

EDIT: The only party-banter I remember from ME2 was Garrus and Tali talking about the elevator rides. "Garrus, I have a shotgun.

[Toast]

I'd say Azis argument about it being so you could choose which characters you like out of the classes, but that doesn't affect things, and if it does, it's almost completely unnoticeable. Maybe if the party was constantly having talks with one another during missions that were so well-written I would literally stop walking to watch them talk (AKA Exactly what happened all the time in Dragon Age: Origins), I'd say picking who you like as a character matters, but that doesn't happen so it doesn't matter.[/COLOR][/FONT]
yeah, that was kind of a let down. i miss the interparty banter that Bioware usually does so well with. The lack of it is fairly noticeable. Heck, during loyalty missions, your third party member usually fades into the background and doesn't say anything.

[BitVyper]

On my second playthrough now. The way this game handles dialogue options is becoming more and more frustrating the longer I play. It's like Bioware doesn't trust me to play my own character.

[CABAL49]

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/9/2010/01/me2figs.jpg

[Solid Snake]

That Shepard action figure looks pretty terrible. Maybe it's just the pose.

I'm shocked they chose Thane and Grunt action figures over Garrus and Mordin; that's like choosing "not making money" over "making money." Of course that's just my opinion, and someone else touched on one of the beautiful elements of ME2, which is that there's really just enough characters to offer substantial diversity in personalities. If Mass Effect 2 cut back even just a few characters, chances are we'd lose out on at least one character we loved. (Personally, I wasn't a huge fan of Jacob and Samara, but they both have large enough fanbases on Mass Effect message boards. I liked Grunt enough, but I still feel he's overrated. A lot of people really seem to dislike Jack, but -- one or two glaring pieces of annoying dialogue excerpts aside -- I liked her. Not in my top three squadmates, but probably in my top five.)

On an unrelated note: My biggest problem (really, my *only* problem) with the leveling up system in Mass Effect 2 is the fact that the game's exponentially compounding system in regards to advancing skills forces you to essentially hoard unused Skill Points through half the damn game. With Shepard himself it's not so bad because you can just pay some Element Zero to reshape him/her several times over, but with all the supporting characters, I had to deliberately hold off on giving them any substantial skills until after their loyalty missions, and then I immediately just spent all those unused skill points to maximize their unlocked abilities. (The one exception to the rule was Tali, as her special ability seemed pretty useless compared to hacking mechs and creating combat drones.)

But really the problem with that system is fairly obvious: I never actually had any incentive to experience the game as Bioware probably intended, in terms of seeing my characters gradually acquire new powers. Mass Effect 1 actually did this fairly well, as everyone's skills in Biotics and Techs and whatnot gradually improved through the course of the game. But most my ME2 characters went from "powerless" to "wielding a maxed out, buffed up superpower" in a flash, and I never even got to see the lesser variations in power along the way.

[DFM]

Jacob has a large enough fan base?

Like, for serious?

I can see Samara or Morinth having a large enough base but Jacob? I guess he bro hugs you, that's pretty cool.

[Red Fighter 1073]

Also Tali's Loyalty power actually kicks ass in the right situations. It rips through synthetic's health bars and basically acts your Overload power if you're not playing as a Sentinel (It attacks "blue" shields and the amount that is taken from your enemy's shields goes into regenerating your own shields). So yeah actually pretty kickass, though I'll admit that from it's in-game description I had no idea what it was; I actually had to go on a forum and find out what it actually did.

And yeah Jacob.. He's actually one of the most hated characters, from what I've seen from forumtalk. Sure you might dislike Jack for her stereotypical "jackass to hide little girl inside" qualities, but Jacob is just.. so boring! It really doesn't feel like he gets any good characterization to set him apart from the other characters. Hell even on his loyalty mission, I felt like I was getting to know his father more than him.

But all in all, I still def agree with your overall point about having a good amount of characters.

[Mirai Gen]

RE action figures; Shepard's face looks weird because they couldn't handle grimly determined so instead they picked 'attentively blank.' His mouth looks a bit too wide and his eyes should be more squinted.

I normally hate merch but I'm so picking those up. Gonna buy Tali and cuddle it at night.

I also get the feeling that the other half of the cast like Mordin and Garrus are just being held off to see if this sells enough to warrant making more 'complex' toys. It does specifically say "Series 1" after all.

But yeah, not gonna be able to resist that.

Jacob has a large enough fan base?

Like, for serious?

I can see Samara or Morinth having a large enough base but Jacob? I guess he bro hugs you, that's pretty cool.
It's cause he's black.

[DFM]

Damn near the only one, too.

[Mirai Gen]

I'm honestly rather surprised they didn't try to make Jacob into a Lando, really.

It's like the minute they get to a human male character (the stock female racist romantic interest) Bioware's creativity dries up.

[Solid Snake]

Well, if you think about it, aggressive xenophobic women are probably the least likely individuals to play the Mass Effect series. So Bioware's just giving proportional emphasis to the characters the gamer is most likely to pursue relationships with.

EDIT: Also Mirai, don't tell me you've forgotten about Joker. Last I checked, he was human and male!

[DFM]

My Shep is an aggressive xenophobic woman who was so bored by her only romantic interest she shot herself.

[Solid Snake]

Even aggressive xenophobic women still have the option to stay loyal to Kaiden.
And while Kaiden's no keeper, compared to Jacob...I'd say your Shepard could settle for the Carth Onasi soundalike.

[bluestarultor]

Also Mirai, don't tell me you've forgotten about Joker. Last I checked, he was human and male!

Last I checked, if you tried to bone him and sneezed, his bones would be a pile of dust. :p

[Mirai Gen]

EDIT: Also Mirai, don't tell me you've forgotten about Joker. Last I checked, he was human and male!
"Well Shepard, I still want to try and do this - just letting you know ahead of time that I'm going to have to be on top, unless breaking bones turns you on."

[Solid Snake]

You guys are so fickle.
True love isn't all about sex, or the pleasure derived from the act.

I mean if we can seduce Tali and Garrus, I don't see why seducing Joker wouldn't be an option. Sex with Tali and Garrus has to be so inherently uncomfortable that Shepard's doing it despite the trans-species issues, out of sheer love for his/her soulmate. That's what makes it even more powerful to pursue those two, it's not an 'easy match' like Shepard and Miranda would be, it's about love overcoming those arbitrary barriers.

Similarly, I don't see how Joker's illness presents an impregnable barrier against being considered an LI. Clearly Bioware didn't go in that direction, for whatever reason, but I think including him as an LI for femShepards in ME3 would be a smart move.

[Krylo]

Joker is already in love with EDI.

FemShep can't have him.

[DFM]

I don't know, I never really felt anything for Joker. Yeah he's funny and I'm glad he's my pilot and all that but I have a hard time seeing him as a romantic interest. Like, Thane was all up in my bidnez with being cool and sexy even though he was a fish and Garrus was ugly like some kind of Reaper space demon but he's totally sweet and a man's man. Jacob is like I dunno I think he got lost in the ducts or something because I can never find him on my ship. Weird thing though after I lost him on the suicide mission that lamp in the armory disappeared, I guess it's like symbolic.

[Viridis]

Haven't played the games (though I might once I get a serviceable computer) but this just bugs me:

Why is that Turian neck thing (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/masseffect/images/thumb/a/a5/Turian_without_armor.jpg/420px-Turian_without_armor.jpg) part of their biology/character design? I thought it was just a weird collar all their suits at first had but no, that's actually part of them.

Maybe they use it to collect rainwater on their home planet.

[Mannix]

Haven't played the games (though I might once I get a serviceable computer) but this just bugs me:

Why is that Turian neck thing (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/masseffect/images/thumb/a/a5/Turian_without_armor.jpg/420px-Turian_without_armor.jpg) part of their biology/character design? I thought it was just a weird collar all their suits at first had but no, that's actually part of them.

Maybe they use it to collect rainwater on their home planet.

Maybe it's vestigial from when they were turtles?

[Osterbaum]

Nice input. I think the fact that we all enjpy this game is selfevident. I mean really, if ME2 was a person we'd all be queing to suck his dick.

[Sithdarth]

The neck plate ain't even half of it. Apparently they have built in metal radiation shielding that keeps them safe from low level radiation.

[BitVyper]

Okay, has anyone actually made a list of exactly how much paragon/renegade you need for different choices? Because I'm starting to think the conversation options are just glitched all to hell. I already mentioned my problem with Zaeed earlier, but now on my second play through at the same difficulty, I'm getting tons of options greyed out that I accessed with much lower ratings before, and no amount of increasing my ratings seems to be affecting them.

Getting fucked over on Zaeed's loyalty mission was a bit annoying, but this is seriously starting to hamper my enjoyment of the game.

[DFM]

Are you doing Newgame+ ?

Because they scale to your level, which is alright on the first playthrough but all your points reset for Newgame+ which basically means you can't do anything.

If you're just starting a second game then yeah they're either glitched or operate on some crazy matrix nobody understands.

[CABAL49]

Maybe it's vestigial from when they were turtles?

They are supposed to be descendants of birds. Let me check the Wiki for more on this.

[BitVyper]

Because they scale to your level, which is alright on the first playthrough but all your points reset for Newgame+ which basically means you can't do anything.

They scale the paragon/renegade requirements? Are you sure? I know the scale the enemy levels, but the conversation options? That would be.... really really dumb. Like, almost malicious.

[DFM]

That's what everyone's saying, I haven't heard word of god on it or experimented myself.

[BitVyper]

Well, unfortunately, it does fit with what I've been seeing on this play through. Damn it, Bioware, that sucks.

[Melfice]

On the other hand, I've had none such problems on my New Game Plus.

[Osterbaum]

I just noticed that Grunt can't use his special power, because apparently "squad mate is not loyal". Except he is, because I did his loyalty mission, he has that circle under him, he has his other costume and I've got nothing left to discuss with him. This is such bullshit. Anyone else had this glitch?

[Red Fighter 1073]

Yeah, Grunt's power is another one that a lot of people have said is glitched. He's prob still loyal, although his power doesn't work.

And wow.. HOLY. SHIT. I just beat the Collector Vessel on Insanity.. Took me like 30 tries just to get off the platforms because if you don't kill that first Scion, he shockwaves and kills your team in one hit and then it's all over. Still can't believe I finally beat it..

Speaking of glitches though, I noticed that there really seem to be A LOT more glitches in this game as opposed to ME1. On the Collector Ship, one of my best places to cover that protected me from most fire, caused me to glitch into the platform over 3 times, and this meant that I couldn't fire or get out of it and I would end up having to load a previous save. Absolutely bullshit.

[Osterbaum]

As long as it doesn't affect his loyalty, ie. the endmission.

[Sifright]

Yea ME2 is pretty damn buggy I've found my self glitching into objects and then ending up running on top of air and not being able to get back down quite a few times worse it happened in the final base a few times and I had to reload huge portions of fights when it happened which was enraging

[Aerozord]

Haven't played the games (though I might once I get a serviceable computer) but this just bugs me:

Why is that Turian neck thing (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/masseffect/images/thumb/a/a5/Turian_without_armor.jpg/420px-Turian_without_armor.jpg) part of their biology/character design? I thought it was just a weird collar all their suits at first had but no, that's actually part of them.

Maybe they use it to collect rainwater on their home planet.wait, but that means, those holes are through Garrus's actual body? Thats just, I mean, OWW

[Red Fighter 1073]

Have you ever wanted to listen to Harbinger while turning your computer on/off or doing otherwise seemingly mundane tasks? Well now you can! (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/masseffect2workingtitle/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-53603346&pid=944907&tag=topics;title) So yeah not actually my post, I just found it, but it's kinda cool I guess. The first Rapidshare download link has the most common phrases, but there is a second download link later on in the thread that has all of his dialogue (over 100 files/over 30 MB too so ehh)..

[Azisien]

Yeah this isn't going to end well for my phone...

[Red Fighter 1073]

More win. Have fun glitching up the skill level up system so that you can fully level up every skill with just 10 available squadpoints. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZAq7wcweUQ) Haven't tried for myself, but hopefully choosing "Retrain Powers" for my character will work out.

EDIT: Ok, just tested it out with "Retrain Powers" and it works just fine.

[Mirai Gen]

Have you ever wanted to listen to Harbinger while turning your computer on/off or doing otherwise seemingly mundane tasks? Well now you can! (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/masseffect2workingtitle/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-53603346&pid=944907&tag=topics;title) So yeah not actually my post, I just found it, but it's kinda cool I guess. The first Rapidshare download link has the most common phrases, but there is a second download link later on in the thread that has all of his dialogue (over 100 files/over 30 MB too so ehh)..

Goddamn it link is broken and I want it.

[Red Fighter 1073]

Whoops sorry about that. I didn't realize that the Gamespot link would get fucked up. Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZAq7wcweUQ) the Youtube vid that the thread links to which basically tells you everything.

EDIT: It also works for squadmates. In case you can't see the Youtube vid basically all you have to do is preferably have 10 available squadpoints. With those 10 points, you are able to max level up an empty skill (to Level 4). First, raise any skill to Level 3. When you are about to level up a skill to Level 4, all you have to do is press X+A simultaneously, choose which version of the skill you want, then you will magically still have all those 10 available squadpoints you originally had. You can then obviously use it to Max every skill in your class even at a very low level. I wish I had known this earlier in my Insanity playthrough because have Max skills at Level 6 would def kick ass as all the enemies would still prob be weak even though they're scaled to your level.

[Mirai Gen]

Wrong post you dork. I'm talking about the Harbinger sounds.

He needs to assume control of my e-mails.

[Red Fighter 1073]

Haha ohhh that other fucked Gamespot thread. And here I thought posting the thread links would last longer than the Rapidshare links.

Main Phrases (http://rs107.rapidshare.com/files/353990302/Harbinger_WAV.rar)

Complete 30 MB but phrases aren't marked (http://rs752.rapidshare.com/files/354021498/Harbinger_Complete.rar)

[bluestarultor]

wait, but that means, those holes are through Garrus's actual body? Thats just, I mean, OWW

Seems to me like it might be just some sort of carapace given it's a different color from literally everything else. Heck, it might even grow back or something if it's actually some sort of shell. Remember, Turians have metal embedded in their flesh to keep them safe from their home planet's radiation. With an area as flexible and vital as the neck, it would make sense to leave its protection to that hood portion for optimum performance.

I feel worse about him getting that plate on his face. I know he keeps going on about scars, but if a portion of it actually got blown off, that's a bit more than a "scar."

[DFM]

Not to Garrus, the toughest mother fucker in the galaxy.

[Aerozord]

Not to Garrus, the toughest mother fucker in the galaxy.

there is a quote from the game that says otherwise, which I wont repeat, because its already my signature

[DFM]

Garrus would find Isaac Newton and punch him in the face and Newton would fly forever but Garrus wouldn't move a goddamn inch, just to spit on him a little more.

[Mannix]

I just listened to those Harbinger sound files, and some of it is pretty interesting. Of particular interest are his ruminations on the viability for enslavement of the various races on your crew. Turians, for example, are too primitive. Asari dependence on other races for genetic material is considered a weakness, Krogan would be useful if their aggressive tendencies could be managed and the genophage eliminated, Drell are too few in number, and Salarians don't have a long enough life span. Humans of course, have incredible biological, technological, and biotic potential. Something interesting I learned was that apparently Quarians have a great deal of cybernetic enhancements, at least according to Harbinger.

[stefan]

Seems to me like it might be just some sort of carapace given it's a different color from literally everything else. Heck, it might even grow back or something if it's actually some sort of shell. Remember, Turians have metal embedded in their flesh to keep them safe from their home planet's radiation. With an area as flexible and vital as the neck, it would make sense to leave its protection to that hood portion for optimum performance.

I feel worse about him getting that plate on his face. I know he keeps going on about scars, but if a portion of it actually got blown off, that's a bit more than a "scar."

I'm not so sure its a plate, it looked to me more like some kind of heavy duty bandage.

also,m that turian shell-thing doesn't seem to go as high as that armor collar does, so Garrus might have made it through with just a messed up face.

Something interesting I learned was that apparently Quarians have a great deal of cybernetic enhancements, at least according to Harbinger.

Tali tells you in the first game that Quarians going on pilgrimage get cybernetic implants to help them fight off infection.

[Mannix]

Tali tells you in the first game that Quarians going on pilgrimage get cybernetic implants to help them fight off infection.

immuno boosters are one thing, but harbinger made it sound like they were approaching cyborg status.

[stefan]

immuno boosters are one thing, but harbinger made it sound like they were approaching cyborg status.

any cybernetics = cyborg. thats what the term means.

[Sifright]

so what your saying is that tali is hot hot cyborg alien jailbait awesome! (in me1 obviously, less so in me2 as she is you know.. not on her pilgrimage)

[Mannix]

any cybernetics = cyborg. thats what the term means.

My grand dad had a metal knee, is he a cyborg? Or how about people with pace makers? The term cyborg generally conjures an image similar to this (http://groselha.art.br/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/cyborg-superman.jpg), regardless of exact dictionary definition.

[Eltargrim]

If you wear glasses, you're a cyborg. Knee replacements, pacemakers, deep brain stimulation; all cyborgs.

Which is awesome.

[bluestarultor]

My grand dad had a metal knee, is he a cyborg? Or how about people with pace makers? The term cyborg generally conjures an image similar to this (http://groselha.art.br/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/cyborg-superman.jpg), regardless of exact dictionary definition.

If you wear glasses, you're a cyborg. Knee replacements, pacemakers, deep brain stimulation; all cyborgs.

Which is awesome.

Uh, not really. To be a cyborg, you need actual mechanical, robotic parts. So a pacemaker is a hell of a lot closer to counting than a knee replacement or glasses. Those are more prosthetics.

[stefan]

cy·borg (sbôrg)
n.
A living creature that has certain physiological processes aided or controlled by mechanical or electronic devices.

I don't give a shit what the common image of a cyborg is, just because its common doesn't mean its right.

[bluestarultor]

cy·borg (sbôrg)
n.
A living creature that has certain physiological processes aided or controlled by mechanical or electronic devices.

I don't give a shit what the common image of a cyborg is, just because its common doesn't mean its right.

Again, does not cover metal joints or glasses, as they are neither mechanical nor electronic.

[stefan]

Again, does not cover metal joints or glasses, as they are neither mechanical nor electronic.

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying that someone doesn't stop qualifying as a cyborg just because they don't have a fully mechanical limb or half a roboface.

[Kim]

ARGH Miranda's mad at me and I don't have a high enough score to make her unmad at me. Hopefully I'll be able to rectify this before we go through the Omega 4 relay or I will be PISSED.

[Osterbaum]

You shouldn't have sided with Jack then.

[Kim]

You shouldn't have sided with Jack then.

But if I sided with Miranda then Jack would be mad at me ARGH

[Azisien]

But if I sided with Miranda then Jack would be mad at me ARGH

So have a better Paragon/Renegade score to diffuse the situation originally, jerk. I think those scenes in general were great though, because they could piss you off. Games, RPGs especially, should piss us off sometimes.

[Mirai Gen]

Yeah if you're Renegade you tell them both to shut up because you're ranking officer on this ship, and Paragon has you tell them that they're both right.

Not sure if I like the way Paragon/Renegade works in this game. It's a truckload better than ME1 but it diffuses the roleplaying when you have to go all the way good/all the way evil.

[Solid Snake]

You can still save your friendship with Miranda, but it requires Max Paragon or Max Renegade.

Really though maybe this was just my playthrough, but I had absolutely no difficulty reaching max Paragon by about midgame. Granted, I had a bit of help from my ME1 transfer, but those points really didn't transfer to much of a boost. And I was going with the Assassin +70% build, as opposed to the Agent +100% build (one of your two specializations for each class offers a considerably greater boost to your Paragon / Renegade scores.) One thing that really helped me was that I recruited everyone before starting a single loyalty mission, and saved Miranda's loyalty mission 'til later because I wasn't spectacularly fond of her.

EDIT: To Mirai's point: Actually, the way Paragon and Renegade worked in ME1 is one of the few things I actually preferred about ME1 over ME2. The novelty in ME1 was that regardless of your decisions, you still played a genuinely good character, but that character could be driven by two very different "law enforcement archetype" philosophies. Either you upheld moral virtues at the risk of naivety, or you interpreted the law in such a way to enable tactical efficiency at the cost of those ideals.

Really what upset me in ME1 (and even moreso in ME2) was that the xenophobia and xenophilia was attached to Paragon / Renegade decisions, when it should have been two different scales on two different axises. You should have been able to be a renegade in regards to tactical situations who still, on a broader strategic level, viewed aliens on friendly terms and saw them as potential allies. And you should have been able to play as an idealistic paragon in regards to humans who just happened to view aliens as inferior. The tactical decisions of "How exactly do I diffuse this hostile situation" really don't have a baring on the socio-political ramifications of "do I like Cerberus or do I prefer the Council." If I could change anything in preparation for ME3, I'd change that. (Though it's probably a bit too late for such an alteration to work.)

But ME2 really made paragon / renegade decisions into good vs. evil decisions more often than not, and that went quite contrary to the point. The whole scarring plot development in ME2 was stupid because it evoked KOTOR and Mass Effect shouldn't try to be anything like KOTOR or a standard morality play. An "evil" Shepard simply shouldn't exist and the possible ramifications that they're leading up to for ME3, in which a renegade Shepard might turn all-out evil, demeans the original intent.

On the flip side, at least the interrupts system kicked ass.

[Azisien]

I like how Harbinger is basically having a conservation with himself...herself...itself.


I do agree with Mirai, it sucks that they didn't give a spectrum of Paragon/Renegade options based on different scores. The "half-half" Shepard kind of gets screwed.

Also see where you're coming from, Snake, but on the other hand, I think maybe Shepard was allowed to be more true good/evil in ME2 because you're not a Council police officer anymore. Hell, your new "boss" doesn't really care how you approach situations.

Agree on the xenophobia/xenophilia thing, though.

[Solid Snake]

Also see where you're coming from, Snake, but on the other hand, I think maybe Shepard was allowed to be more true good/evil in ME2 because you're not a Council police officer anymore. Hell, your new "boss" doesn't really care how you approach situations.


I consider it more or less against Shepard's established ME1 character development to even consider the possibility of becoming evil. I'll concede that the new impression he's gotten from Cerberus (via Miranda, Jacob, Kelly, and even the at-times charming Illusive Man) provides justification for a xenophobic Shepard to consider the organization a likable ally. Even then, though, I'll reiterate that it's disappointing that merely being xenophobic or 'pro-human' in a playthrough apparently leads Shepard to make ruthless tactical decisions in combat and leads him to become a scarred aggressive war-hungry borderline-evil dude. Even Ashley Williams in ME1 was complex enough to convey that not every xenophobe was inherently sinister about it.

EDIT: Hell, now that I think about it, even The Illusive Man, shady agenda and all, is presented in such a way that his pro-human agenda doesn't carry with it any necessary insinuations of aggressive hostility. Sure, he could be a nefarious man with sinister intentions of killing lots of aliens to save just one human life. Or he could simply be looking out for the best interests of his species in a galaxy that seems complacent and uncaring in the wake of a threat to humans, he could bare no specific ill will towards aliens but merely feel justifiably paranoid or cynical enough to suspect humanity has to look out for itself, and he could have been telling the truth regarding him being completely unaware as to splinter cells of Cerberus engaging in unethical experiments in ME1. The latter explanation may be unlikely, but its mere possibility adds depth. By contrast, the game seems to actively discourage you from developing a 'paragon xenophobe' interpretation of Shepard that fits Ashley and (possibly even) the Illusive Man's examples.

Some of the new Renegade interrupts were downright malicious in ways ME1 never dared approach. It made for some very clever cutscenes, but I think it's an example of trying to make the game more visceral and exciting at the expense of an established characterization. Even my most Renegade Shepard playthrough in ME1 just isn't the kind of guy who's going to electrify a helpless mechanic to death (one who presumes you're an ally and speaks on friendly terms with you, no less) or throw a helpless mercenary who's clearly surrendered to his doom. The extent of renegade Shepard's badass moves in ME1 generally involved punching people. The deaths of civilians were only justified by abhorrent situations that threatened the outcome of the mission (possession by the Thorian.) Shepard in ME2 is more like "if you even present an incredibly minor nuisance I will kill you in cold blood and with no provocation", which is just silly.

Really the bad side effect of Renegade Shepard in ME2 is that renegade playthroughs are much less appealing to me from a grander storytelling perspective than they appeared in ME1. In ME1 renegade seemed an equally viable option as paragon. In ME2, renegade makes for some amazing cutscenes and as an independent experience it's fantastic, but as the middle chapter of a long and rich story set in the Mass Effect universe there's simply no massive incentive to be renegade. After all, as a renegade you'd have to be an asshole to your squadmates, kill characters in cold blood who could actually leave you e-mails / sidequests / support in ME3, and antagonize every faction that could possibly support you against the Reapers. Insofar as being a renegade in ME1 didn't require you to burn so many bridges, a renegade playthrough was tenable. In ME2, by contrast, you're left with the distinct impression that playing as a renegade will leave you in a complete strategic disadvantage in ME3, not to mention a much less colorful playthrough without as rich a cast of characters.

I guess to summarize: ME2 leaves you the impression that the paragon playthrough is the real bona fide ME experience and the renegade playthrough is more a dark fantasy that couldn't dare be canon, which is very different than ME1, where the renegade playthrough felt like a realistic approach. As such, I think it's increasingly likely that I'll take only one pure-evil badass renegade playthrough into ME3 (just to experience what it's like,) whereas all my other playthroughs will be variations of paragons (with only different genders, specializations, and love interests to differentiate them.)

[Krylo]

I think ME1 might be getting seen with Rose Colored glasses here.

ME1 Renegade options--Punch a reporter. Execute a helpless (though guilty) man. Side with Terra Firma party. Kill the last rachni--while it is basically promising it will be good and begging for forgiveness/life, and after it has been explained that the creatures you'd been killing were retard evil rachni created because the scientists fucked up their ability to develop. Murder something like 20 innocent colonists who are being mind controlled and really no threat to you when you have gas grenades perfectly capable of knocking them out without hurting them.

Most 'evil' ME2 Renegade Options I can Recall--Punch a reporter. Again. Murder two mercs who are in the middle of talking about how they will murder you. Save the reaper technology to use against the reapers. Kill the sociopathic lawful stupid knight errant who would probably try to kill you later, anyway--trading her for the sociopathic succubus who is no threat to you or your crew because 1) she only kills with sex and you can resist having sex with her, 2) she's not stupid and everyone would know who did it while she was trapped on the normandy, and 3) you can just murder after the mission and not worry about anymore if necessary, much more easily than you could her mom.

Really, if ANYTHING ME1 choices were much more good/evil than ME2 choices.

Edit: HELPLESS MECHANIC SNAKE!? Really. He's a blue suns merc, and he's fixing a gun ship that is going to be used to attempt to murder you in like a half hour. You know this going in. Even my paragon characters take that interrupt, because it is SMART.

[Solid Snake]

I think ME1 might be getting seen with Rose Colored glasses here.


Nah, I believe that ME2 is the far better game.
So trust me, I'm not looking at ME1 with anything resembling 'rose-colored glasses.'

I just felt the renegade ME1 decisions were more justifiable. Take the rachni, for example. Sure, it sounds as if the rachni queen is begging for forgiveness and a chance to repopulate her people, but the odds are decent she isn't telling the truth, and she's just in a position where she's forced to tell Shepard what she thinks he wants to hear. Given that the rachni are crazy-lookin' aliens and given their reputation in Citadel space, not to mention the fact that Shepard's a human and humans have had less than thirty years' experience dealing with all this, it's entirely feasible an otherwise good-intentioned but deeply skeptical Shepard would prefer wiping the rachni out over risking another Rachni War. (Just think, he and he alone would be to blame for that decision.)

Mind you, I'm savin' the rachni even in my Renegade ME1 playthrough, but I can at least understand the logic there.
By contrast killing the mechanic who's just doing his job and who has no reason to suspect you're the enemy? It's smart, but it's cold-blooded in a way that doesn't compare to the rachni incident.

Just my opinion, though.

EDIT: That being said I will concede that the Morinith / Samara decision had a surprising amount of depth to it. In my first (pure paragon) playthrough based on everything Samara told me I had difficulty justifying whether killing Morinith was truly the paragon action. I saved Samara -- in large part because the game told me it was the paragon choice and because I was willing to give Samara the benefit of the doubt -- but then Samara's later comments about Morinith's situation (when you speak to her in the Normandy after the mission is complete) actually deepened my doubts.

[Krylo]

Mind you, I'm savin' the rachni even in my Renegade ME1 playthrough, but I can at least understand the logic there.
By contrast killing the mechanic who's just doing his job and who has no reason to suspect you're the enemy? It's smart, but it's cold-blooded in a way that doesn't compare to the rachni incident.

Just my opinion, though. Don't shoot the messenger for daring to disagree!
The Rachni were no threat to Shepard at that point. The Mechanic was.

The mechanic was also callously/cooly sending a bunch of kids off to get sniped in the face, knowing full well that they would all die. He had no illusions about your/every other freelancer's chance of survival and didn't care.

He was the one who actually gave the order to cross the bridge.

Everyone in that camp were murderers, either through complacency or through outright shooting people in the face.

That mechanic was anything but innocent, and killing him is a sound tactical decision.

Killing the rachni/innocent feros colonists were not nearly as much so. The Rachni is no threat to you at that point, and while one can justify killing it because it MIGHT come back to bite you in the ass later, killing them is far more 'evil' than killing a mechanic whom you KNOW will come back to bite you in the ass later.

The colonists were trying to attack you with pea shooters, and all you had to do to stop them is throw grenades instead of shooting bullets. It was actually EASIER to throw grenades because you could stop entire groups of them in one go, and wouldn't kill them. There was no tactical advantage to killing the colonists at all, so long as you had grenades left. Even if you DIDN'T they were of no threat and could be easily face punched without risking yourself.

On the other hand, a gunship against three or four people on foot? That's an honest threat.

[TheSaylesMan]

Hey now, killing those colonists was a sound strategy. You know nothing about how the colonists would be effected by the death of the Thorian or even if the Thorian would really die if you destroyed its main nerve cluster. Those parasitic spores in their systems could have permanently switched to pain mode and/or driven them completely insane. The various and scattered smaller nerve bundles mentioned could have each had the potential of regrowing into a completely new main nerve bundle and used the colonists (although in nowhere near as intelligent manner) years down the line.

Killing them all was the safest way. If I were Bioware, I would have had the Colonists try to grab you and hold you down so that the Creepers could have more easily vomited you to death.

[Dauntasa]

Hey now, killing those colonists was a sound strategy. You know nothing about how the colonists would be effected by the death of the Thorian or even if the Thorian would really die if you destroyed its main nerve cluster. Those parasitic spores in their systems could have permanently switched to pain mode and/or driven them completely insane. The various and scattered smaller nerve bundles mentioned could have each had the potential of regrowing into a completely new main nerve bundle and used the colonists (although in nowhere near as intelligent manner) years down the line.

Killing them all was the safest way. If I were Bioware, I would have had the Colonists try to grab you and hold you down so that the Creepers could have more easily vomited you to death.

No, killing the colonists is pretty much a complete dick move. Those grenades contained gas specifically designed to neutralize Thorian control, and even if the colonists were still crazy afterward, you could just round them up while they're asleep and kill them when they wake up and act crazy. At least then you'd know they were a threat. That was probably the only thing I actually felt bad about doing in ME1. And I always save Ian Newstead, even on playthroughs where I am otherwise being the galaxy's biggest jerk.

[CABAL49]

I got to the Praetorian on the Collector ship. I am honestly thinking about just forgetting about getting the Insanity Achievement because it is just not fun anymore.

[BitVyper]

The "half-half" Shepard kind of gets screwed.

Which completely defeats the purpose of measuring them separately in the first place. Also it takes away the player's ability to control their own character, because if you want to take one renegade option that's more in the "badass commander" vein, you have to go off and take a bunch of options that are more in the "space Hitler" vein in order to do it, at the same time eschewing things that your character would actually do.

It's like a shitty DM trying to force you to play your alignment to the letter. It's just annoying.

Kill the last rachni--while it is basically promising it will be good and begging for forgiveness/life, and after it has been explained that the creatures you'd been killing were retard evil rachni created because the scientists fucked up their ability to develop.

To be fair, this is a species that waged a bloody, vicious war on the entire galaxy and nearly won. I personally would let it go, yeah, but I could see why someone might not trust the psychic space monster when it says it'll totally be good. Especially when there would be not too much stopping it if it decided to turn around and eat them as soon as it got out. Killing it might not be a good thing, but I don't think I'd count that as one of the space Hitler options.

Otherwise, I'm mostly on board with ME2's options being a bit better rounded. There was really no good reason to push that guy out a window though. He probably deserved it, but he could have just as easily been knocked out or otherwise disabled. Same with killing the Eclipse chick - granted you found out that she was full of shit later, but she came across pretty sincere when you found her. Even if you thought she was lying, you were acting as judge, jury, and executioner (which, to be fair, is technically a Spectre's job, but you know, with great power comes something something).

Anyway, I just hope ME3 handles the options a different way. 2 wasn't so bad the first time through - occasionally annoying, but I was usually able to do everything I wanted to. I actually stopped my second play through though, because I just got fed up with having all my options greyed out.

[Dauntasa]

Shepard really can't kill anyone who doesn't deserve it, though. I mean, other than the Zhu's Hope colonists and Parasini. And killing the colonists has some justification and Parasini was sort of an accident. Everyone else is either a threat or a complete bastard. Like that guy he pushed out a window. He was trying to kill Shepard and all the innocent workers. He might not have been a threat right then, but if Shep had knocked him out he could have woken up and killed someone. Killing him was the pragmatic solution. And that's really all Renegade Shepard is; a pragmatist. It's just that when you're saving the galaxy sometimes pragmatism means pushing someone out a window.

[BitVyper]

You can potentially leave Zaeed to die. Granted, he's not the nicest guy, and he did unintentionally endanger innocent bystanders, but he didn't deserve to die. Especially since he did end up going along with Shepard if you chose to save the workers, so whether or not they get saved is really on Shepard's shoulders.

[Yumil]

Otherwise, I'm mostly on board with ME2's options being a bit better rounded. There was really no good reason to push that guy out a window though. He probably deserved it, but he could have just as easily been knocked out or otherwise disabled. Same with killing the Eclipse chick - granted you found out that she was full of shit later, but she came across pretty sincere when you found her. Even if you thought she was lying, you were acting as judge, jury, and executioner (which, to be fair, is technically a Spectre's job, but you know, with great power comes something something).

Anyway, I just hope ME3 handles the options a different way. 2 wasn't so bad the first time through - occasionally annoying, but I was usually able to do everything I wanted to. I actually stopped my second play through though, because I just got fed up with having all my options greyed out.

To be honest, you absolutely know the eclipse chick was lying as she had to kill to join eclipse. She didn't act to get in, she had to kill.

[Aerozord]

I think the biggest problem is that the best way to get paragon/renegade points is to go with the paragon/renegade options and interupts. I choose them mostly to get the points then because I liked them. Though I could never bring myself to be a jerk to Tali. Found Jack to be more interesting with paragon options as she seems to have some character development

But how do you get the succubus on your team? I never got that option. Though I did enjoy talking to Joker about it "You did good. I mean who wants some death obsessed seductress, walking around all dark... and sexy... actually nevermind"

FYI Rachni was being honest and looks like they will be allies in ME3 if you saved her

[stefan]

I got to the Praetorian on the Collector ship. I am honestly thinking about just forgetting about getting the Insanity Achievement because it is just not fun anymore.

I know exactly what you're talking about and that fucking praetorian is every reason to try and get the Cain early. That section pissed me off so much in my first playthrough, so when I went through again I resolved to have the Cain charged up and ready to take the fucker down in one go.

killed most of the husks and collectors in that room too, so it was worth mining all that iridium.


But how do you get the succubus on your team? I never got that option. Though I did enjoy talking to Joker about it "You did good. I mean who wants some death obsessed seductress, walking around all dark... and sexy... actually nevermind"


I think it has to do with the dialog choices you make leading up to her, 'cause I got both options even though I was 90% paragon and less than 20% renegade at the time.

[Dauntasa]

I think it has to do with the dialog choices you make leading up to her, 'cause I got both options even though I was 90% paragon and less than 20% renegade at the time.

You've got have a lot of Renegade points or a lot of Paragon points. Either one will do, or both. You always get Renegade points for choosing her though, so I don't know if letting you do it with high Paragon is a glitch or something.

[Solid Snake]

FYI Rachni was being honest and looks like they will be allies in ME3 if you saved her

Oh, I know. In my case I just could understand the logic behind Shepard deciding for killing the rachni queen in ME1. The fact that sparing the queen happened to work out in ME2 is awesome, but you can't expect Shepard to have had forward knowledge of the outcome at the time he/she needed to decide.

Here's a new question for everyone to ponder: If you were working for Bioware, what would you want to accomplish for ME3? What kinds of ideas would you attempt to incorporate to improve the game substantially, or what kind of story concepts would you put forward?

I was thinking about my "dream version" of ME3 and I came to the conclusion that I'd enjoy a cold open with Shepard defending a devastated Earth from a reaper attack, and with several alien factions (if you're paragon) or cerberus (if you're renegade) assisting Shepard in defending other human cities. I'm not sure whether even a relatively brief jaunt on future-Earth would serve the Mass Effect "setting" (even though Earth clearly exists, and it's a clear first choice for a Reaper target assuming they know Shepard's species.) It'd be an intriguing way to immediately thrust the player into heavy-stakes action and a great way to immediately re-introduce tons of supporting characters who survived ME1 and ME2, though not as squadmates: if you played paragon, you could hear radio chatter about Clan Urdnot showing up and defending Beijing while a Geth task force led by Legion defended Cairo and Salarian special task forces were staving off the enemy in Paris while Ashley/Kaiden and Alliance forces were protecting the United Nations building in New York. The payoff of actually seeing the alien races you've helped assisting humanity would be freakin' sweet, and the intensity of listening to the radio chatter from tons of forces battling all throughout the planet we know and love would match the kind of intensity we saw in the microwave scene in MGS4.

And I'd actually prefer if the game skipped ahead and started there, with an initial Reaper invasion of Earth or something as the first target. You'd immediately be confronted with tough choices -- if you have squadmates from ME1 and ME2 who survived the suicide mission, one idea is you'd have to choose via radio communication (as Shepard would be the leader of the entire operation) whether to have some squadmates sacrifice themselves to destroy invading forces. Do you sacrifice their lives to protect cities and nations on Earth, or do you keep as many former squadmates and alien forces alive as possible, while potentially sacrificing Earth's habitability and turning humanity into a spacefaring race separated from a destroyed homeworld, like the Quarians?

(And how many characters survived the suicide mission could influence your available options, too. Entire cities that could be battlegrounds if some characters are kept alive could be sacrificed to the Reaper invasion if those characters were dead. Example: if Wrex survived ME1 he's alive and Clan Urdnot shows up with a Krogan task force to defend Beijing. If not, a Reaper succeeds in destroying Beijing and there's nothing you can do about it, at least one major city on Earth is out of the picture.)

And then you can get the Normandy 3 (Normandy 2 would be destroyed while attacking the invading Reaper at Earth or something) and the game would actually begin...

</my crappy two cents>

EDIT: Spoiler Text'd everything just in case someone here hasn't beaten ME2.

[BitVyper]

To be honest, you absolutely know the eclipse chick was lying as she had to kill to join eclipse.

You don't absolutely know shit, largely because the renegade option has you shoot her without even bothering to ask questions. However, she never really denies having killed anyone, she just says she thought she'd be "shooting bad guys," instead of selling red sand and helping Ardat Yakshi. She plays the stupid kid in over her head pretty well. Not believing her is entirely justifiable, but shooting her when she's not even remotely a threat to you is not. She doesn't actually shoot at you until you pretty much say you're going to kill her, and she puts down her gun if you don't. Not that one random dumbass with a gun is any threat to three commandos with personal force fields, which the scene shows.

And even knowing that she's committed at least one murder - information which, as I recall, came from a lying, thieving smuggler who had a vested interest in getting you to kill all of the Eclipse - that's not a justifiable reason to just shoot her on sight.

Edit: Looking at it the other way though, you could take Shepard calling bullshit on her as a test to see what she'd do, since he doesn't shoot until after she drops the facade. Still not a good justification, but then, it's not like I'm saying which option you should take, just that ME2 does allow you to do some pretty nasty things as well.

[Solid Snake]

I didn't actually have a problem with the renegade interrupt for the Eclipse murderer (compared, at least, to my issues with shoving the poor merc from the building or even killing that mechanic everyone seems to hate) because it was a neat twist that played on the cliche that the paragon option of letting the "poor, helpless woman caught in circumstances over her head" live was always the 'morally righteous' or 'correct' thing to do. This was a rare case where playing the paragon role was actually naive and it bit you in the ass -- but that didn't stop mercy from being the appropriate paragon action.

It's sort of similar to how I would have enjoyed seeing the decision to keep the rachni alive in ME1 come back to bite Shepard in the ass -- if the rachni queen was lying, it'd still be a noble paragon action to have believed her and let her live, but congratulations, being a naive paragon has just unleashed a terrifying menace onto the galaxy.

[BitVyper]

Yeah, see, that's the thing: I have no problem with it. I'm just saying it is what it is. Renegade Shepard being a bad person.

It's sort of similar to how I would have enjoyed seeing the decision to keep the rachni alive in ME1 come back to bite Shepard in the ass -- if the rachni queen was lying, it'd still be a noble paragon action to have believed her and let her live, but congratulations, being a naive paragon has just unleashed a terrifying menace onto the galaxy.

Yeah, but in this case it's already putting a spin on the alien monster cliche. A much better spin than I think that would be. There's other places where what you're talking about would work better without taking away a cool element from the story. You could also take another spin on it and have renegade Shepard be eliminating a powerful potential ally. Either way works, however Bioware seems to have gone the route of giving neither renegade or paragon extreme consequences outside the social, which swings both ways, as renegades are typically being treated exactly how they like. I expect to see consequences for both in ME3.

Killing the rachni queen is still consigning a sentient being to death-by-acid. Turning her over to anyone else would likely be even worse, since you'd likely end up with the same result (weaponized rachni). I wouldn't call not doing either of those things "naive." Paragon Shepard may just value life in such a way that he's willing to risk a war to avoid a full on genocide. At least the possible war is an unknown.

[Aerozord]

well my bet is going renegade or paragon in both will have the following effects in 3. Paragon will have massive armies of allies, while renegade will have decked out humans that are very powerful, but hated by the galaxy at large

[Solid Snake]

Killing the rachni queen is still consigning a sentient being to death-by-acid. Turning her over to anyone else would likely be even worse, since you'd likely end up with the same result (weaponized rachni). I wouldn't call not doing either of those things "naive." Paragon Shepard may just value life in such a way that he's willing to risk a war to avoid a full on genocide. At least the possible war is an unknown.

Oh, no: I guess I phrased my post wrong. I was quite satisfied with the rachni queen development in ME2. I still would have enjoyed the possibility of such a decision biting a paragon Shepard in the ass, but Bioware's decision to ensure the rachni queen could be a potential ally was a great twist in and of itself. In comparing the possibility of a rachni betrayal (which I had weighed when I made my decision recently in my first full ME1 playthrough) to the Eclipse merc scenario, though, my point was it's cool to have certain paragon decisions actually resolve themselves in ways that are not remotely beneficial to the paragon player. By contrast, most "good-guy" decisions in standard RPGs of the KOTOR-type tend to have very little in terms of sacrifice in exchange for 'doing the right thing.' Sure, the good guy's path might involve a bit less raw power but you are rarely significantly penalized for making the moral choice, and doing so usually leads to a happy ending anyway.

Even in games like Fallout 2, which were pretty morally complex, the 'good guy' path often led the character to take actions that saved towns from Mafias/mutants or that happened to resolve disputes diplomatically in such a way as to have very little repercussions. Given that, you have no incentive to actually keep your guard up against making "lawful stupid" choices.

[BitVyper]

well my bet is going renegade or paragon in both will have the following effects in 3. Paragon will have massive armies of allies, while renegade will have decked out humans that are very powerful, but hated by the galaxy at large

That sounds like a pretty good bet. I'm inclined to agree.

I have to say one thing though: I'm kind of tired of the game acting like I had a chance to save the Destiny Ascension. I mean, okay, I get that the option was there in the sense of "this is something Bioware is allowing you to do," but it wasn't presented as anything resembling a realistic option.

Now, I don't have a problem with characters treating me like I did it to strengthen the position of humans, or because I'm speciesist, or whatever. All of that is fair game. However, I'd like some acknowledgement from the game that I might have done it because saving the Destiny Ascension was presented as being a one-way ticket to defeat. Like, even Shepard seems to have no options that involve bringing that up, which is where I feel like the game itself is treating the issue that way. Because if Shepard himself doesn't have dialogue options to defend that stance, then it means it hasn't even been considered.

Also my favourite renegade dialogue options are the ones where Shepard implies/accuses that people are racist or bigoted. Those ones are hilarious.

"We won't support slavery."
"You just don't want to hire a Quarian!"
"What? But.... but...."

[Red Fighter 1073]

So yeah to get "the succubus" (aka the other crazy bitch), when you go to her place, you have to give either all paragon choices or all renegade choices, and then the game will give you a choice between which person you want to.. well you know.

[Aerozord]

thats just stupid, needing to go all out just to be able to make a one or the other option. Its not like going one way or the other even decides which.

though i did see a video where you can get the succubus and sleep with her.

you die of course

[Dauntasa]

well my bet is going renegade or paragon in both will have the following effects in 3. Paragon will have massive armies of allies, while renegade will have decked out humans that are very powerful, but hated by the galaxy at large

I'm thinking that if you go full paragon for all three games then all the peoples of the galaxy will band together and link hands and form a happy rainbow coalition type thing, and if you go full renegade then you get a human-supremacist dictatorship. And I'm really hoping that one of the endings of ME3 involves Shepard taking power.

[Aerozord]

How I want ME3 renegade to end, with them capturing shepard and indocturnating him

Harbringer: Finally we have captured Shepard, he shall serve as the center of the new reaper to cleanse the galaxy anew. We have wo-

Shepard: Now assuming direct control

Harbringer: no, NOOO ARRRGGHHHHHHH

Shepard (Harbringer): Now begins the new age of humanity, as the rulers of all

[DFM]

Shepard becomes the Reapers.

[Aerozord]

exactly

on an unrelated note. I forgot how amusing wrex can be

Shepard: " I got spaced"

Wrex: "thank god for redundant nervous system"

Spepard: "yea... humans dont have those"

Wrex "oh, then that must have hurt"

[Azisien]

I have to say one thing though: I'm kind of tired of the game acting like I had a chance to save the Destiny Ascension. I mean, okay, I get that the option was there in the sense of "this is something Bioware is allowing you to do," but it wasn't presented as anything resembling a realistic option.

Hey now...hey...You get a 20-colony victory lap!

And maybe the giant dreadnought will come in handy in ME3.

[CABAL49]

Hey now...hey...You get a 20-colony victory lap!

And maybe the giant dreadnought will come in handy in ME3.

Doubt it. Sovereign messed it up the first time.

[DFM]

I have to say one thing though: I'm kind of tired of the game acting like I had a chance to save the Destiny Ascension. I mean, okay, I get that the option was there in the sense of "this is something Bioware is allowing you to do," but it wasn't presented as anything resembling a realistic option.

Except this is a Bioware game and doing the "Good" thing will always work with no real consequences and may even give better, nay double the rewards of doing the eeeevvviiilllll thing.

[Melfice]

Except this is a Bioware game and doing the "Good" thing will always work with no real consequences and may even give better, nay double the rewards of doing the eeeevvviiilllll thing.

I dunno.
"Owning" the centre of intergalactic trade seems to be working out for humanity, although humans seem to be much more hated. Then again, I shouldn't really speak, since I've not seriously invested in a Renegade game.

[DFM]

Yeah I think I was channeling Bioshock there I dunno.

[Azisien]

Doubt it. Sovereign messed it up the first time.

I don't.

Destiny Ascension got fucked up, like any ship would, because it got caught flat-footed by a geth fleet. Sovereign didn't even do anything to it.

Add that, plus the fact that you're looking at the possibility that it could be retrofitted to include the technological advances in the 2+ years gained by researching Sovereign's corpse and any of your decisions in ME2. A Destiny Ascension outfitted with 20 Thanix Cannons is a flagship to fear.

On that note, I actually do doubt it would happen the way I envision. But that's always the case. Weeee!

[Aerozord]

I did get an email from one of the quarian admirals, the one that wanted to reprogram the geth to work for them once more. she said she found useful information on the experiments, and if you told her about the experiments she'd have shared that information with humanity.

curious to see how that resolves. Even for my renegade character I'm hoping for quarian/geth peace

[Yumil]

You don't absolutely know shit, largely because the renegade option has you shoot her without even bothering to ask questions. However, she never really denies having killed anyone, she just says she thought she'd be "shooting bad guys," instead of selling red sand and helping Ardat Yakshi. She plays the stupid kid in over her head pretty well. Not believing her is entirely justifiable, but shooting her when she's not even remotely a threat to you is not. She doesn't actually shoot at you until you pretty much say you're going to kill her, and she puts down her gun if you don't. Not that one random dumbass with a gun is any threat to three commandos with personal force fields, which the scene shows.
She claimed not to kill a person, as she said she was just pretending to shoot. Plus, with any investigation prior to the event, you easily find out if they have a uniform, they've killed. So if you actually talked to people before going in, you'd know that anyone wearing the eclipse uniform is a murderer as they have to kill someone to go in. Just because you dont investigate before you run in, doesn't mean you cant know she was full of shit.

[BitVyper]

Shepard becomes the Reapers.

"No Shepard, you are the demons.

And then Shepard was a Reaper."

Doesn't have the same ring as "zombie," but it still works.

[Mannix]

She claimed not to kill a person, as she said she was just pretending to shoot. Plus, with any investigation prior to the event, you easily find out if they have a uniform, they've killed. So if you actually talked to people before going in, you'd know that anyone wearing the eclipse uniform is a murderer as they have to kill someone to go in. Just because you dont investigate before you run in, doesn't mean you cant know she was full of shit.

for all you know the person she killed to get in could have been a child molester or something.

[Aerozord]

To be fair, if that Volus was anything like his partner, might not be such a sad thing. Though she viewed belonging to them in the same way some kid would view being part of a street gang. Its possible she legitly thought she screwed up once HER life was put into danger. Doesn't change the fact she was amoral enough to kill the guy and gloat about it. Just saying even if she was sincere, probably still deserved a shot in the head

[CABAL49]

for all you know the person she killed to get in could have been a child molester or something.

He smuggled drugs, but that's not the point. She didn't care who she killed. She was just looking for admittance into Eclipse. The Eclipse mercs are hardly "good" guys to begin with.

[BitVyper]

He smuggled drugs, but that's not the point.

That. That is the point. The fact that someone (probably) did something bad does not automatically make killing them on the suspicion okay. Even places that still use the death penalty acknowledge this much. Shepard had no good reason to kill her. It wasn't like he was on some stealth mission and she would alert the guards, and she was absolutely no threat to him on her own, as taking the renegade option fully demonstrates.

Shepard had no reason to kill her. She (probably) wasn't innocent, but that's not a reason to kill someone unless you happen to be 90s Punisher.

Edit: Which, I should reiterate, is fine. I'm not saying it's bad that you have the option, just that it's pretty nasty - not as nasaty as killing all the colonists in ME1, but still one of the worse things Renegade Shepard can do.

She didn't care who she killed. She was just looking for admittance into Eclipse.

Which you don't find out until you listen to her recording later.

[Dauntasa]

Edit: Which, I should reiterate, is fine. I'm not saying it's bad that you have the option, just that it's pretty nasty - not as nasaty as killing all the colonists in ME1, but still one of the worse things Renegade Shepard can do.


Not at all. She's an enemy combatant. She could just be saying that she's innocent, and indeed, she is. She doesn't come and shoot Shepard in the back later, but it was certainly a possibility. She was a threat. It's basically the same situation as that guy who got pushed out a window.

[Krylo]

That. That is the point. The fact that someone (probably) did something bad does not automatically make killing them on the suspicion okay.

Firstly, depends what you suspect them of doing. Killing someone for smuggling drugs is probably not ok, as that smuggling drugs by itself isn't that bad (but only by itself). On the other hand, murdering people and joining a mercenary company that tends to murder people on a regular basis--well maybe that's in a bit more of a moral gray area.

Secondly. It does if you're a spectre. Killing people on suspicion is the entire reason that spectres exist. It is like 90% of their job description. It is the entire reason they EXIST. If they could only take someone down/kill someone if they had solid PROOF then C-Sec could do their job if they were given a larger jurisdiction. Needing the ability to kill criminals without solid proof is the entire reason that the spectres exist.

ALSO: You don't shoot until she does. "You chose your side" followed by training your gun on her and not firing could have been as simple as arresting her and bringing her back into the police. She, however, elected not to surrender at that point and instead attempt to shoot you.

There's nothing 'nasty' about shooting someone who is firing on you with a shotgun.

Is it still a 'renegade' option? Sure. Paragons are all about giving second chances and being cliche good guys. Renegades are not about that at all. They're about stopping bad guys no matter the cost. Remember the renegade origin has you murdering a bunch of batarian slavers after they retreated at the cost of your own men in a tunnel system.

However the idea that it is 'nasty' or 'evil' to kill a uniformed merc when a) You know that uniform means she killed someone, and b) SHE SHOT YOU FIRST is kinda silly.

The only 'evil' renegade options I can think of are the Feros colonists, and even that is really only 'evil' and not a really dark shade of gray because of the dialogue options before hand where you can tell the Bayhem's that, no, fuck them, you're not going to even try and save the colonists, as opposed to just getting there and thinking it's too dangerous to do so.

[DFM]

Shepard had no good reason to kill her.

She's a murderer and a sadist with a shotgun who belongs to a large pack of murdering sadists. You're seriously saying that killing her after she starts spouting lies to save her own skin is worse than, say, Shepard gunning down the Batarians when saving Mordin's assistant?

[Marc v4.0]

Which you don't find out until you listen to her recording later.

You find out that they have to kill someone to join the Eclipse before this point. You know it when you find her unless you just rushed through and didn't pay attention.

[Melfice]

You find out that they have to kill someone to join the Eclipse before this point. You know it when you find her unless you just rushed through and didn't pay attention.

I didn't rush, but I'll admit not knowing about/remembering it at the time. I let her go, and was pretty pissed off when I found he diary... "Luckily" I was playing Über-Paragon Shepard, so the damage was not that great.

Now playing on the New Game+ of that same character, and he's still Paragon, but does some pretty renegade stuff too. She's eating lead this time.

[stefan]

If I remember that scene correctly the renegade interrupt comes when she reaches for a gun. She was wearing the enemy's uniform and was not disarmed or disabled, so unless I'm forgetting something that means that she was a legitimate target from a technical perspective.

[CABAL49]

I DID IT! Collector ship on Insanity. I died a bajillion times but I beat the crap out of Harbinger! I also did it without the use of a heavy weapon.

[BitVyper]

If I remember that scene correctly the renegade interrupt comes when she reaches for a gun.

The actual shot is not fired until after. If she reached for her gun and Shepard shot her on reflex, that would be a bit more excuseable. He doesn't. They're in a standoff and talking before it happens.

[Krylo]

The actual shot is not fired until after. If she reached for her gun and Shepard shot her on reflex, that would be a bit more excuseable. He doesn't. They're in a standoff and talking before it happens.

What happens is Shepard levels his/her gun and says that Elnora chose her side. Elnora says "SCREW THAT" and then a gender-based epithet, and whips out her shotgun firing a single shot.

Shepard looks kind of unimpressed, and then s/he and his/her entire squad riddle her body with bullets.

No one shoots her until she shoots first.

[Mirai Gen]

Shepard shoots first in the Collector's Edition.THIS IS A JOKE

[Krylo]

...I have the Collector's Edition.

Shepard is not Han Solo.

[stefan]

What happens is Shepard levels his/her gun and says that Elnora chose her side. Elnora says "SCREW THAT" and then a gender-based epithet, and whips out her shotgun firing a single shot.

Shepard looks kind of unimpressed, and then s/he and his/her entire squad riddle her body with bullets.

No one shoots her until she shoots first.

yeah, just played that part again and this is pretty much what happens. If you asked a police trainer or drill sergeant what the proper response would be in that situation they'd pretty much tell you that shooting her first is the proper choice, although they'd probably frown on Shepard's insistence on using a bond one-liner before blasting her apart.

[Mirai Gen]

In a few years they'll re-release it and they'll shoot at the same time.

[DFM]

She'll still shoot a few milliseconds faster.

[Krylo]

But we will always remember the original (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pytnkpdomQY).

[Mirai Gen]

But we will always remember the original (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pytnkpdomQY).

I like how Zaheed is apparently translating a pantomiming Garrus.

Boy this is one buggy game.

[Solid Snake]

But we will always remember the original (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pytnkpdomQY).

Hmm...

Actually, that scene really reveals a bit of a minor problem with the interrupts system in ME2: You don't actually have the slightest clue (even a text hint, like you do with normal choices) as to what Shepard's actually thinking. (There are exceptions: You do know what the result of an interrupt in Mordin's loyalty mission is, because Shepard clearly fixates his/her eyes on the target.)

In my paragon playthrough I didn't choose the renegade interrupt in that circumstance (and several other times, really) since I didn't want to take any risks that Shepard would respond by blowing the place to hell and killing everyone in sight. Without some sort of context, renegade interrupts can be risky endeavors if you're trying to play a paragon character. Will a renegade interrupt just lead to a snarky comment, a realistic threat, or a senselessly violent act? Who knows until after the feat is done?

Based on what I heard about Elnora's death it seemed more like the renegade interrupt just led to Shepard shooting her on sight (which is what I had assumed would happen if I chose the renegade interrupt at the time, and that notion seemed reinforced when I heard everyone else mention that the renegade interrupt led to her death.) But if the outcome simply led to Shepard calling the chick out and leading to her shooting first, then her death is far more 'acceptable' as a renegade action (as opposed to anything remotely 'evil.')

Still that scene (and the consequences of running that scene through as a paragon) was one of the better moments of the Paragon / Renegade system in ME2. By contrast, shoving the Eclipse merc to his death several stories below seemed like just a moment where Bioware wanted to make the most badass scene possible at the expense of realism, and at the expense of accurately portraying renegade Shep's morality. [/my opinion]

[Krylo]

I believe it was the great sage DFM who once said, "RenShep, flying around the galaxy headbutting krogan and punching turians in the stomach."

Renegade Shepard's morality IS badass.

[Solid Snake]

...Gonna have to agree to disagree with you there.
In terms of moral decisions, there's a huge difference between punching or even headbutting someone, as opposed to killing in cold blood.

Given that Shepard is merely an avatar for the player, I mean, it's not a huge issue for gamers because they'll make their own decisions. Personally, in my femShep renegade playthrough I intend to play my renegade character as someone who will gladly headbutt and punch anyone she wants, but who would try to avoid actually killing defenseless people, even defenseless "enemies" who've surrendered and the like. It better fits my definition of what renegade Shepard's morality should be.

...But I guess if you want your renegade Shepard to be less bad cop and more murdering psychopath, more power to ya. =)

EDIT: I'm also going to make my renegade femShep the kind of renegade who still makes "paragon decisions when it matters." Like, she'll gladly headbutt, punch and mock foes and make snarky comments to those she dislikes, but she'll treat her allies like gold, save the Council in ME1, and defy the Illusive Man in ME2. I'm interested in seeing how a renegade playthrough goes when a renegade character defies her alignment on the biggies. It might lead to a messed up ME3, where renegade femShep has made just enough paragon decisions to lead an army of alien allies despite the fact she's mocked them all mercilessly and told them to shut their fucking mouths along the way.

[Kim]

The level cap is thirty? Fuckin' lame. I played Paragon pretty much the entire second half of the game, so without more levels to get, I'm having a hard time convincing myself to finish this playthrough. Just don't want to do any more mining. Augh. Maybe I'll finish it when Mass Effect 3 nears release so I'll have a super badass save to import.

[DFM]

If you're playing ME2 to level grind you're doing it wrong.

[Kim]

If you're playing ME2 to level grind you're doing it wrong.

The thing is, I've already experienced everything the same as I'm going to experience it if I continue, and I'm not that big on replaying games anyways, with a few exceptions. Maxing out Shepard as I re-experience everything would be the only thing to convince me to finish my second playthrough now, rather than later.

[Mirai Gen]

As I said before, I'm not sure if that's what you want but if you start a re-play you get 50,000 of each mineral.

It doesn't excuse mining from being shitty but lord it helps.

[Kim]

As I said before, I'm not sure if that's what you want but if you start a re-play you get 50,000 of each mineral.

It doesn't excuse mining from being shitty but lord it helps.

Until you blow through all your Platinum the moment Mordin is on your team. I guess it still helps, but it doesn't help enough.

[Mannix]

Until you blow through all your Platinum the moment Mordin is on your team. I guess it still helps, but it doesn't help enough.

On my second playthrough I had just about 100,000 of each mineral (except eezo) just by tossing one single probe on every last planet I could find. Doesn't take that long and you find all the side missions that way.

[DFM]

Yeah if you can't choose different quest/dialog options than you did the first time there's not a whole lot of reason to do Newgame +.

[stefan]

its true that most of the minerals are going to burn through the long servce bonus fast but 50k element zero is more than you will need. ever.