MASS EFFECT TWO: GIVE GARRUS A HUG [Archive] - Page 4

DFM

02-25-2010, 03:26 PM

That's the real problem: assuming you made all the choices you want to actually bring into ME3 in your first playthrough, you're bound to make identical decisions the second time around. I could replay ME2 with my max-paragon character and try to raise his renegade meter, for example, but that'd simply result in the New Game+ carryover insinuating that my Shepard made all kinds of uncharacteristic decisions. "Hey you were such a nice guy in ME1 and then ME2 came around and you became a jerk!"

Might be worth it to see if it matters at all in ME3. If you have a lot of confusing dates for your save files, it might help to not do Newgame+ and instead just import your ME1 save again and change your class, gives you a new gameplay experience and makes it easier to identify your "Opposite Canon Shep" from your regular canon Shep.

Aerozord

02-25-2010, 03:53 PM

ME2 didn't have that though. it shows you what alot of your major choices were, and even your allignment. I had no issue identifying my one shep from the other despite having same name, appearance, and class

Red Fighter 1073

02-25-2010, 07:39 PM

I FINALLY BEAT INSANITY MODE! phew now that I've gotten that out of my system, I just gotta say that it feels good, even though the playthrough ended up being more annoying than fun after awhile. Now when the hell is the Mass Effect 3 gonna come out already?!

Also for those of you who don't know, there has been talk of a new DLC character, Kasumi. Whether the DLC is free or not (which I've at least heard that it is), here's moar fuel for the DLC debate, as one video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eKZq_dWW7s&fmt=18) I've found seems to point to the fact that she was already encoded into the original game, and Bioware has just been waiting to unveil her.

Also also, for all those who didn't choose to fail Tali's Loyalty Mission, here's a video of what happens if you show the evidence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k88TpeWyrPM&feature=related)... andd wow, I'm glad that I never tried that for myself because I mean it REALLY tears her apart. Almost feels like kicking a sad puppy while it's down.

Dauntasa

02-25-2010, 11:07 PM

Also also, for all those who didn't choose to fail Tali's Loyalty Mission, here's a video of what happens if you show the evidence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k88TpeWyrPM&feature=related)... andd wow, I'm glad that I never tried that for myself because I mean it REALLY tears her apart. Almost feels like kicking a sad puppy while it's down.

You can win the trial without showing the evidence. My Renegade Shepard just told the admirals that Tali was awesome and if they banished her they were a bunch of assholes and they could go to hell. And it worked.

Krylo

02-25-2010, 11:09 PM

You can also rally the crowd if you don't have enough paragon/renegade points to do what Dauntasa said.

Dauntasa

02-25-2010, 11:20 PM

You can also rally the crowd if you don't have enough paragon/renegade points to do what Dauntasa said.

Yeah, but only if you talk to pretty much everybody before the trial. Otherwise the option doesn't show up.

Red Fighter 1073

02-26-2010, 12:54 AM

Oh yeah I know there are actual options besides showing the evidence (when in fact showing the evidence actually makes you fail the mission because Tali basically hates you afterwards, which is what I was getting at before). Choosing not to do anything is also a possible option in case anybody didn't know, which I've had to do once because I didn't have enough Para/Gade, which is partly why I'm not as a big a fan of ME2's morality system. Tali still gets exiled but she still gains loyalty and doesn't have too many regrets about it surprisingly. I had no idea rallying the crowd could work though. I thought that was just a random option that would just delay the inevitable so I never chose it.

Mirai Gen

02-26-2010, 02:37 AM

I... really hope it isn't free DLC to people who bought the game.

I seriously don't like that just cause I'm using my roommate's copy I'm punished.

Aerozord

02-26-2010, 02:56 AM

Its more like encouraging people to buy it. I have no doubt it was either this or EVERYONE pays. Supposedly microsoft forces them to charge to put up DLC, this was a way around it.

Mirai Gen

02-26-2010, 03:51 AM

I have no doubt it was either this or EVERYONE pays.
And the problem with that is?

Legit DLC is something I wouldn't mind paying for but the fact that my roommate bought it and I didn't find my own, therefore I don't get it for free, is bullshit.

DFM

02-26-2010, 03:53 AM

Then maybe you should buy a copy YOU FUCKING SOCIALIST FREELOADER.

Edit: You can still buy the DLC if you don't own the game

Melfice

02-26-2010, 04:19 AM

Then maybe you should buy a copy YOU FUCKING SOCIALIST FREELOADER.

Edit: You can still buy the DLC if you don't own the game

Or, more accurately, you can pay 20 bucks to buy into the Cerberus Network and then have access to the free DLC.
Which... would make it non-free, of course, but if they keep a strong supply of DLC, you'll hopefully earn it back over time, so to speak.

Krylo

02-26-2010, 05:04 AM

I... really hope it isn't free DLC to people who bought the game.

I seriously don't like that just cause I'm using my roommate's copy I'm punished.

Think of it as a DRM option that, instead of punishing the people who legally paid for the game, REWARDS people who legally paid for the game.

You didn't legally pay for the game, so, no, you don't get everything.

If you don't like it--buy the game, or pay the 20 dollars for a cerberus card.

Mirai Gen

02-26-2010, 05:26 AM

Think of it as a DRM option
Yeah, exactly.

Though I won't bitch further cause I'm probably just going to skip it out of spite.

Krylo

02-26-2010, 05:30 AM

Yeah, exactly.

Though I won't bitch further cause I'm probably just going to skip it out of spite.

The problem with DRM isn't that it exists. It's that it punishes the person who pay for the game legally while rewarding pirates.

This one does the opposite.

The only people it pisses off are the ones who didn't buy the game. Therefore it is a good DRM option.

Not that you can't get pirated DLC, but you'd have to repirate the DLC every time they release more and well, yeah. More work for pirates, less work for people that paid for it. That's good.

Odjn

02-26-2010, 09:37 AM

The problem with DRM isn't that it exists. It's that it punishes the person who pay for the game legally while rewarding pirates.

This one does the opposite.

The only people it pisses off are the ones who didn't buy the game. Therefore it is a good DRM option.

Not that you can't get pirated DLC, but you'd have to repirate the DLC every time they release more and well, yeah. More work for pirates, less work for people that paid for it. That's good.

Except if you bought it used.

Krylo

02-26-2010, 10:36 AM

Except if you bought it used.

Game companies want to discourage that as well.

Buying a used game is as much a lost profit for EA/Bioware as if you just stole it.

In such a case (or in the case of lazy pirates) however, allowing people to purchase the Cerberus Card for 1/3-1/2 the game price both allows them to make up some of that lost profit and allows people purchasing used games to potentially still save money, assuming they get it for under 1/2-2/3 the original price.

Osterbaum

02-26-2010, 10:44 AM

Game companies want to discourage that as well.
Which is being a dick.

DFM

02-26-2010, 11:15 AM

Krylo

02-26-2010, 11:30 AM

Which is being a dick.

I disagree.

People can still buy the used game, and acquire an entire game. Complete with all the story lines and levels and plot points necessary to create the entire game.

They miss out on one character who only has actual dialogue on his recruitment and his loyalty mission, some shitty armor, and a few weapons.

You miss out on more or less the same thing depending on where you buy the game. Gamestop had Terminus armor or some shit, Dr. Pepper codes got you an in game hat, etc.

However, as far as a game company is concerned, buying a used game is no different than pirating it. Sure, from a LEGAL standpoint it's different, but they get exactly the same amount of dollars from you either way. Which is 0.

They don't want to get 0 dollars from you. They want to get 40-60 dollars from you (actually less than that, as that would be the price after retail mark-up, but regardless...).

Wanting to make a profit is not being a dick in and of itself.

Being a dick is requiring a constant internet connection. Being a dick is limiting the number of times you can install a game. Being a dick is installing third party software onto your platform that you don't want.

Being a dick, is giving their paying customers a gimped product.

With ME2 they have not done this. Everyone who pays for the game gets a complete product, EVEN IF THEY BOUGHT IT SECOND HAND.

However, those who bought the game first hand, and therefore contributed to the company's profits, get extra swag.

This is no different than giving you a t-shirt or a hat or a game guide with your purchase of the game. The only difference is that your swag is useless kinda cool in game things instead of useless shitty real life things.

Professor Smarmiarty

02-26-2010, 11:38 AM

Yeah just have to back up Krylo and that this is the good sort of DRM and bitching about it just makes the bad sort of DRM look less bad.

Solid Snake

02-26-2010, 12:04 PM

Ultimately I'm hoping there's a lot more DLC content put out there, and Zaeed kicks all kind of ass even if his dialogue is limited, but otherwise yeah, krylo's on the mark here. If Bioware is going to take the extra time to create additional content that goes above and beyond that which is required to make ME2 playable (and awesome,) they should charge us money. And I'll gladly pay it to companies that make games of the quality of the Mass Effect series.

Osterbaum

02-26-2010, 03:19 PM

To specify:
Except if you bought it used.
Game companies want to discourage that as well.
This is what I have a problem with, not the ME2 DRM specifically.

Odjn

02-26-2010, 03:40 PM

Game companies want to discourage that as well.

Buying a used game is as much a lost profit for EA/Bioware as if you just stole it.

In such a case (or in the case of lazy pirates) however, allowing people to purchase the Cerberus Card for 1/3-1/2 the game price both allows them to make up some of that lost profit and allows people purchasing used games to potentially still save money, assuming they get it for under 1/2-2/3 the original price.

I understand why they do that. I just think it's wrong for them to do so.

DFM

02-26-2010, 03:48 PM

I don't have a problem with them doing it, honestly.

bluestarultor

02-26-2010, 03:53 PM

This is what I have a problem with, not the ME2 DRM specifically.

You have to remember that a corporation is all about making money. That's their function. It's like complaining that a blender chews stuff into a pulp. People would complain if it DIDN'T work that way.

So when they do something rather innocent to help bolster sales, it's just that, rather innocent, and you can't really complain about paying for something they put actual time and money into making.

Osterbaum

02-26-2010, 03:54 PM

You have to remember that a corporation is all about making money. That's their function.
Doesn't make it right.

Azisien

02-26-2010, 04:12 PM

Along with agreeing with Krylo in general, I'd barely consider the DLCs to be DRM anyway, because I download them off the social site as raw exes, which I could then send to anybody without Cerberus access.

Oh what's that? Consoles? Bwahaha.

E: Even if you don't have access, if you play on a hard drive that has the DLCs, you have access to them. I found this out when I gave the network card to my GF so she could play with Zaeed, shitty armor, etc. I remembered shortly afterwards I had just ruined my chance to have the network on the 360, but then I later played it. Indeed, I didn't have the network access, but I did have all the DLCs anyway.

Aerozord

02-26-2010, 04:15 PM

Doesn't make it right.

yes it does, its completely right, both morally and practically. Companies exist to make profit, profit is good, its what powers our economy. Them making money means paychecks for their employees, and new games for us. They are giving people that actually gave them money, additional benifits to encourage people to pay them for their work.

If you buy a game used, borrow it, or steal it, you are not contributing to the company. You are not paying them for their hard work and effort. They have every right to expect to see a profit for providing you with entertainment.

DFM

02-26-2010, 04:24 PM

Doesn't make it right.

I think getting free swag if you buy the game direct from them is perfectly right and have no idea how it could be a problem.

Krylo

02-26-2010, 05:31 PM

And let's just reiterate here that I am one of the most pro-pirate people on these boards. I believe that it is not only the moral right, but the moral DUTY of pirates to crack games with prohibitive DRM that punishes the people who actually bought the game.

It's just... this isn't that. It gives a baseline product to everyone, and then rewards the people who gave their money to the company. It is positive reinforcement instead of negative reinforcement. It is how all DRM schemes should exist.

Though maybe with slightly tighter security on the download them as .exe files. Though they may have done that so you can transfer it to offline computers and what not if you want. I mean, really they aren't being unreasonable here, at all.

Osterbaum

02-26-2010, 05:48 PM

yes it does, its completely right, both morally and practically. Companies exist to make profit, profit is good, its what powers our economy.
Ok, what? Because someone, somewhere, sometime decided that our current economic system is DA SHIT doesn't make everything right. Not to mention that morals are relative.

But seriosly, let's just stop there. I'm not really up for a debate about it, especially in a language that isn't my native one. And especially in an ME2 thread.

Professor Smarmiarty

02-26-2010, 05:49 PM

I'm completely baffled at what is wrong with company behaviour here. I honestly don't know what people are arguing against.
Like seriously guys, think about your positions some here.

And Oster I'm possibly the most anti-company, anti-money, anti-economy person on this board and even I'm not going to shit on the companies for this one. This doesn't really have any relevence to such an economic debate. This is you wanting people to make you free shit just because.
This kind of shit is what companies charge people for. The fact that they are giving it out free to some people is a positive, not a negative.

Aerozord

02-26-2010, 05:56 PM

Ok, what? Because someone, somewhere, sometime decided that our current economic system is DA SHIT doesn't make everything right. Not to mention that morals are relative.

But seriosly, let's just stop there. I'm not really up for a debate about it, especially in a language that isn't my native one. And especially in an ME2 thread.

some people feel that morals are relative. Maybe your culture believes you are self entitled to things you didn't earn. America believes that about alot of things, its why we are not a true capitalist nation. That being said, entertainment industry is a free market, and in a free market a company has the right to expect payment for its products and services either one time purchase of their game at retail or a code. They are giving you additional services for free. All they ask is you pay them roughly one millionth their investment to get it. If you like the game give them money so they can make more

Osterbaum

02-26-2010, 06:08 PM

Oh, for the love of! I have no problem with the free DLC. I dig that shit, I bought the game and I sure as hell ain't going to complain about getting more for my moneys worth. What I do have a problem with is actively trying to prevent recycling, which is what buying used, lending and so on basically is. And really the mindset I had behind that originally was simply and ecological one: why does everyone need to own everything instead of like, sharing etc?

And no, I do not see the free DLC as a means to preventing this. It's simply a bonus to those who went and bought the game for themselves. I was only commenting on this:
Except if you bought it used.
Game companies want to discourage that as well.
Game companies, or just companies, in general. Not Bioware or ME2.

At this point I apologize, because this was obviosly the wrong thread. And my original comment was too, shall I say vague. I simply find it a bit harder to express myself in english than I often admidt to myself. Now can we please get back to ME2.

Mirai Gen

02-26-2010, 06:13 PM

That's sort of what they do, man.

Edit: Mirai I'm kind of confused, you have no problem paying for ME2s DLC but only if everyone else has to pay for it too, even though you didn't spent a cent on the game.

I'm flip-flopping, BTW.

There's nothing inherently wrong it just rubbed me the wrong way since it's the in-between of DRM. Sorta like how Prince of Persia 08 sold you the game but then if you went online they sold you an "Epilogue" AKA the rest of the game.

But there's nothing wrong with it. I just feel spiteful I don't get free shit, basically.

Also if it mattered to me that much I could just go "Well you know I *can* play on my roommate's profile..."

Aerozord

02-26-2010, 06:14 PM

I know, and I am still saying the same thing. If you buy a used game they see zero profit, to make up for it they are selling the extra stuff to recover their loss and provide extra incentive to buyers. As I said, they have every right to want money from those that buy their games.

They are not saying 'you cant buy the game used' they are saying, if you want extra goodies be a sport and float us a couple of bucks. What we aren't getting about your arguement is why you think this is punishing people for getting it used. It isn't, its rewarding those that get it at retail

Professor Smarmiarty

02-26-2010, 06:22 PM

Osterbaum

02-26-2010, 06:25 PM

Indeed. My mistake was to make the original comment in a thread in which I had no intention to clarify or explore it further.

Professor Smarmiarty

02-26-2010, 06:28 PM

We've all been there. I don't like clarifying any of my stuff.

Krylo

02-26-2010, 06:30 PM

We've all been there. I don't like clarifying any of my stuff.

We've noticed.

So... That thar Garrus. Right handsome fella, eh?

Aerozord

02-26-2010, 06:37 PM

reminds me, always fun to talk to Joker about the squad members

Sithdarth

02-26-2010, 06:38 PM

Man just finished my first play through. Legion and Thane are my best buds. I let Legion handle the inorganics with his Widow, Thane handles the organics with his shredder rounds and biotics, and I provided extra fire power against basically anything with my Widow or what I think was an SMG, disruptor ammo, and heavy incinerate. I must say that at the very least this game actually made me want to use my powers. In ME1 there basically was no point except for like shield boost, immunity, unity, and adrenalin rush. Even then I only used those so I could stand outside of cover and take missiles to the face for my squad mates.

Oh man the last fight was stupidly easy and anticlimactic compared to the rest of the game. Of course that might be because I had two shots for the Cain and even though I largely missed with both that was basically the end of it and anything near it. That's why my next play through is Veteran or whatever is right under Insanity instead of normal. After that I might try Insanity.

Azisien

02-26-2010, 07:01 PM

yes it does, its completely right, both morally and practically. Companies exist to make profit, profit is good, its what powers our economy.

Ok, what? Because someone, somewhere, sometime decided that our current economic system is DA SHIT doesn't make everything right. Not to mention that morals are relative.

But seriosly, let's just stop there. I'm not really up for a debate about it, especially in a language that isn't my native one. And especially in an ME2 thread.

I totally didn't say that!

Garrus is pretty handsome though.

Sifright

02-26-2010, 08:22 PM

I would have no problem with claiming that if is wasn't for the fact that the dlc characters are already in the game just need to be unlocked and have the art assets added. it's pretty clear this was stuff stripped from the game and then "added" later but meh whatever.

Check youtube the Dialogue is already in the game and can be reached with a little fuxxing with the game

Aerozord

02-26-2010, 08:34 PM

well its not like its abnormal for stuff to be cut from the game but not the code. Fallout 3 is full of weapons and other material thats inaccessible in the game proper. Can be a variety of reasons, including lack of testing or concerns of overdeveloping. I can tell you if Zeed was in the game from the start I'd call him tacted on and superflous.

Sithdarth

02-26-2010, 08:40 PM

Also, with the whole everyone gets their own room thing adding new characters too ME 2 without at least having a good deal of the coding already in place would be a bit of a pain. Well at least it would be a bit of a pain without totally breaking suspension of disbelief by putting them in the ladies room or something. Which is why I'm kind of wandering what is going to happen with this supposed new DLC character. I see having Zaeed all coded into the game from the beginning as really good planning for future expansion and less as cutting content from a complete game to make people pay them money/get online/whatever.

Azisien

02-26-2010, 08:43 PM

What?

So we won't get Joey the Pervert Hanar that hangs around the ladies room a little too much?

Aerozord

02-26-2010, 09:42 PM

Blasto is the only Hanar I will accept into my group, I hear-by declare all other Hanar lesser, they are now un-hanar

Red Fighter 1073

02-26-2010, 10:05 PM

Regarding the new DLC character, there actually is an empty room that you can't go into right now in ME2. It's something like the "Port Observation" room on the Engineering deck that has a door and everything but no green seal or whatever that signals that it can be opened. So Bioware has probably already coded everything for that room, they just need to make it be accessible when the DLC comes out.

Solid Snake

02-26-2010, 11:19 PM

Bioware has been pretty open about the fact that there's only one more DLC character named Kasumi who's going to be introduced to the team. She'll be next to Jack and on the opposite side of Zaeed on the character select screen. While Bioware's specified that there will be some more DLC content, Kasumi's the only new character to the mix, and it makes sense that they'd pre-record her lines into the original game, so they don't have to bring back the established voice actors to make one-liners about "the new crazy thief" on the team. (As a related note I'm actually curious as to how much DLC content will involve dialogue from other characters, as that creates a potential problem, particularly with characters like Sheen's Illusive Man. It'd be unfortunate if this meant story-enhancing DLC was generally strayed from, as I'd actually be considerably more interested in DLC that added new story content over DLC that just improved gameplay options. For example, give me additional scenes with your love interest any day of the week over a few new armor types or Hammerhead missions.

What I'm curious to know is how the ME2-->ME3 save transfer situation's going to work. Will it only transfer data as of when the Suicide Mission ends and the credits roll, or will you also be able to transfer data regarding missions you complete after the Suicide Mission? As is, with my first character I've already beaten the game: if I want to recruit Kasumi once the DLC is out with that character (so Kasumi could impact ME3, for example) I'd have to do so in the post-game "free world" portion of the experience. But if the character transfer limits data as ME1 did to an arbitrary cutoff point, decisions you make after the Suicide Mission won't have any impact whatsoever on a transfer to ME3.

Roland

02-26-2010, 11:28 PM

I think there might be a connection between the way the games handles their New Game+ option and the save importing, to be honest. Back in ME1, the only save you could use for a New Game+ was the special autosave it made after you'd completed the game. Said autosave is also the only kind of save that can be imported for ME2.

But not only can ME2's New Game+ can be started from any post-game save, I don't recall there being any special saves like there were in ME1.

DFM

02-26-2010, 11:31 PM

Well they're not going to bring back Martin Sheen for DLC voice work, the other characters won't be much of a problem.

synkr0nized

02-27-2010, 04:41 PM

Living Bobbeh

02-27-2010, 04:45 PM

Are you not talking about Zaed's area? 'cause he's not new or anything.

The room opposite Samara's room is the likely place that the new DLC character will be kept.

BitVyper

02-27-2010, 05:08 PM

Scratch that, I bungled it up, as he's over on Starboard.

I read this as "over on Shepard" for a second, and thought "how do you get THAT relationship option?"

Krylo

02-27-2010, 05:14 PM

He'd be better than FemShep's other options, excepting Garrus.

Osterbaum

02-27-2010, 05:43 PM

What are those options exactly? Garrus, Jacob and...?

Krylo

02-27-2010, 05:53 PM

Thane.

CABAL49

02-27-2010, 06:47 PM

Grunt should totally be a love interest.

Kim

02-27-2010, 06:51 PM

Is there a particular reason why Male Shep can't be gay, other than Bioware didn't want Fox News to be mean to them again or something stupid?

CABAL49

02-27-2010, 06:53 PM

MaleShep and Kaiden could have been gay. Probably didn't want him to be gay with Jacob cause the whole black people being gay thing. I think FemShep can still be gay.

Kim

02-27-2010, 06:56 PM

I think FemShep can still be gay.

Well, duh.

Solid Snake

02-27-2010, 06:59 PM

...The obvious justification is: Because if MaleShep and Garrus could go out, Garrus would be dating Shepard in every one of my playthroughs, and I'd never get the chance to see the other options.

Aerozord

02-27-2010, 07:01 PM

Is there a particular reason why Male Shep can't be gay, other than Bioware didn't want Fox News to be mean to them again or something stupid?

probably the same reason femshep isn't (to my knowledge) gay, and why sex is replaced with dry humping

Kim

02-27-2010, 07:02 PM

Prediction for Mass Effect 3

You have maxed out the Chariot Arcana. You and Garrus have forged a powerful bond that can never be broken.

You and Garrus spend a long while together...

Solid Snake

02-27-2010, 07:06 PM

Dammit NonCon, now you're just going to get me started on writing some Mass Effect / Persona 4 crossover fanfiction.

...In which a young MaleShep attends High School in the Citadel, and there he meets fellow students like Tali, Garrus, Liara and Mordin!
...And they all form a special Investigative team to find Reapers in the extranet!
...And Nihlus would take you in and let you live in his home, and you'd have to deal with Nihlus' dopey yet mysterious watermelon-loving assistant Saren...

Oh man, it writes itself.

Dauntasa

02-27-2010, 07:30 PM

Osterbaum

02-27-2010, 07:31 PM

I find myself weirdly atracted to the fanfic described.

Kim

02-27-2010, 07:51 PM

Garrus Loyalty Mission is helping him find the secret animal cracker.

Mirai Gen

02-28-2010, 02:13 PM

Unless I'm mistaken I had the same complaint about all of Bioware's RPGs up until Dragon Age apparently had homosexual relationships with one or two of the guys. Not too sure on that.

Azisien

02-28-2010, 02:15 PM

Oh yeah, definitely man love options available!

DFM

02-28-2010, 02:52 PM

Aerozord

02-28-2010, 03:00 PM

to be fair this was probably EA's doing not Bioware's. Upside is if they did it, it might be somewhere in the code that can be modded

DFM

02-28-2010, 03:03 PM

ME1 was out before EA bought them, I think. And it was modded back in, because it was finished, just cut from the available content. ME2's was started, but not finished, so you'd have to have voice actors and writers and all that, so it likely won't be modded back in. Besides, EA didn't put a cap on Dragon Age letting you get your gay on.

Aerozord

02-28-2010, 03:37 PM

ME1 was funded by someone else, but it was still funded, and if they say "no man-on-man action" then there isn't any. Reason I doubt Bioware were the ones that cut it is because its rather dumb to put in all that effort just to not use it. Cutting it sounds more like a marketing choice, which the developer isn't in charge of

DFM

02-28-2010, 03:48 PM

The developer is more than capable of saying, on their own, "On second thought, no one will buy our game if we do this, we ought not do this".

Regardless, EA was their publisher for Dragon Age, so the only reason they'd cut it from the Mass Effect series is because they consider it something of a flagship title and don't want to scare away mainstream customers with "yuckiness".

Mirai Gen

02-28-2010, 04:28 PM

I'd think they felt like Mass Effect was super-successful so they didn't want to run a risk.

Whereas Dragon Age was an all new IP and therefore could be buried in there a bit, therefore a bit safer.

EDIT: completely a guess though.

stefan

02-28-2010, 05:32 PM

ME2 they had at the very least a FemShep/Tali romanced voiced a little ways past the "Uh... Shepard I think I'm hot for you." stage.

from various hearsay Ive heard the deal with tali was that the VA didn't want to play a bisexual character and bioware figured it was better to let her refuse freely than to alienate the actress for one of the most popular characters in the game.

Solid Snake

02-28-2010, 07:46 PM

What gets me is that for both ME1 and ME2 they had goddamn gay romances and then cut them at the last minute. In ME1 you were supposed to be able to romance both Kaiden and Ashley regardless of your sex, they even had everything voiced for it, including the final sex scene.

At the risk of potentially being misinterpreted as insensitive, this doesn't bother me.
Well, the lack of potential gay romance options in Mass Effect bothers me.
...But the fact that some supporting characters actually have secure, inflexible sexualities does not.

I mean it's always somewhat bothered me when I play a game (even a great one, like Persona 4) where your main character can seduce anyone he goddamn wants. Yeah I get that a main character who's supposed to represent the interests of the gamer should have a flexible sexuality. So it makes sense to, for example, give the main character the opportunity to flirt with whoever he or she wants to. But this doesn't mean that every supporting character should be written as not only bisexual but also capable of falling in love with the main character just because.

There should be heterosexual characters who won't arbitrarily change for the affections of a same-gendered main character, just as there should be attractive homosexual supporting characters who won't date you if you're the opposite gender, just as there should be both heterosexual and homosexual supporting characters who won't date the main character regardless of gender just because the main character's personality type isn't a good match.

In specific regards to Mass Effect, there could be additional variables such as characters who won't consider dating you if you go renegade and characters who won't consider dating you if go paragon.

I mean I can understand from a sheer programming perspective why they wouldn't go this route, but consider it a wish list to how games like Mass Effect should be, if they're really aiming for the next level of realism when it comes to LIs.

(And yes, the contradictory argument here is that maybe we don't want realism in our potential LI options in a videogame, but while I'm all for giving Shepard considerably more numerous and attractive dating options than the average gamer would ever have, the nature of the game right now...and other games like Persona 4, which take a similar philosophy...is something like "If she's heterosexual and hot, you can seduce her!" (And they're all heterosexual, and most of them are hot.) Which is just stupid. It eliminates the personalities of supporting characters insofar as they'll all drop everything for a chance to shag you. A few characters shouldn't date you period, and other characters should be a bit pickier and only date the main character when he or she makes decisions they agree with or acts in a way they should find desirable.)

EDIT: Furthermore, neither Kaiden nor Ashley as written in ME1 are written in such a way as to support either being considered bisexual.
I mean I guess Bioware could have written them completely differently to conform them to such a requirement, but I prefer 'em as is.

Azisien

02-28-2010, 07:52 PM

Basically agree with you Snake. That being said, if the gamer is given a character with flexible sexuality, they should be able to use it.

I mean maybe the way the cards fall, the only gay NPC is a volus, but hey!

Mirai Gen

02-28-2010, 07:58 PM

I'm not sure if I dislike the idea that Kaiden/Ashley would be bisexual and give me a real feeling of overly-perfect convenience, or if that's just my familiarity with Ashley going against the idea that she'd be presented as bi.

Either way I'm kinda happy the way it is now, albeit I'm wondering why no gay dudes.

CABAL49

02-28-2010, 09:16 PM

Since Asari are all women, it makes since that they're all bi.

BitVyper

02-28-2010, 09:35 PM

I kind of wish the Asari would have been more androgenous. It's pretty obvious (after listening to the bachelor party discussion, that is) that everyone just sees what they want to see when they look at an Asari anyway, so you could still have them look more feminine, but it kind of seems odd to me that they have a concept of gender at all. Their mating process seems like more of a psychic event where the other contributor's sex doesn't even have much effect.

DFM

02-28-2010, 11:56 PM

The only thing I really take issue with in Snake's post is saying that neither Ashley or Kaiden were presented as being Bi. Ashley, I'll admit, I don't think I would buy. What with her being the staple racist space conservative. Being able to pull off her being closeted would take a lot more attention than the other romances to portray it convincingly.

Kaiden, though, seriously? Have you seen the porno strut Shepard does when he walks up to him in the mood lighting, and how Kaiden always stands up and slowly wipes the sweat from his brow? It's like you're going to start fucking right there.

As for the not-being-able-to-date-everyone thing, the main problem is you're not even given the option of hitting on them. Femshep can't try and initiate a romance with Miranda, Malshep can't try to hit on Thane, etc. As a player, your sexuality is forced on you by Bioware, not any NPC personalities or orientation.

Aerozord

02-28-2010, 11:58 PM

I think what I really like about Tali is approaching her for a relationship feels more deep and realistic. Like she's concerned about complications of them being different species, long term effects, and like Garrus she was in the last game so there is, ya'know good reason for an actual relationship to form. The recurring characters are people you have spent alot of time with, gotten to know, and developed strong bond with before.

Not sure I'd ever be gay for Garrus though, simply because I prefer thinking of him as my best bud and that seems like the relationship they have. Your wing man, the guy you joke about old times flying around and punching out mecha-cthuhlu.

Mirai Gen

03-01-2010, 12:22 AM

I'm in agreement with DFM's post. Plus it would make it so like the entire team is ready to sex up any Shepard you make in ME1, and that's one of those 'suspension of disbelief' breakers for me.

I don't mind offering relationship potential in wRPGs - that's pretty much the BnB of them - but I like the limited number of relationships offered in both MEs. Makes it feel more like you have people that mean a lot to you, rather than like the entire known galaxy wants to grope Shepard's Carnifex Hand Cannon/heat clip slot.
Not sure I'd ever be gay for Garrus though, simply because I prefer thinking of him as my best bud and that seems like the relationship they have. Your wing man, the guy you joke about old times flying around and punching out mecha-cthuhlu.
The word you're looking for is "Bromance."

BitVyper

03-01-2010, 01:15 AM

It doesn't help that Kaiden's behaviour in ME2 practically screams "the lover scorned."

Azisien

03-01-2010, 10:55 AM

It doesn't help that Kaiden's behaviour in ME2 practically screams "the lover scorned."

Was that his behaviour? I couldn't tell, I was too busy not having him on my team.

CABAL49

03-01-2010, 01:43 PM

Melfice

03-01-2010, 02:42 PM

Yeah, I never invested much time in Kaiden. It wasn't that I didn't like him. I really liked Carth and was happy to have him on my team again. But I needed people on my team who could take some abuse, he wasn't one. In ME1 I ran around mostly with Wrex and Garrus. The two could take a beating and give back a harder one. I like running around with Grunt and Garrus too!

Except Garrus likes to eat live rockets now.
You'd think he'd have learned to lay low after half his face got blown off by a minigun in his recruitment mission.

CABAL49

03-01-2010, 02:51 PM

Except Garrus likes to eat live rockets now.
.

Things like to shoot at Grunt more, he just takes it like a Krogan. Besides, I usually have him stand back and snipe.

Aerozord

03-01-2010, 03:51 PM

Was on my second playthrough and, grunt died (knocked out whatever) and I was deeply confused. I didn't know that was even possible

Solid Snake

03-01-2010, 03:53 PM

Anyone can die during the suicide mission if you assign characters to improper tasks. What'd you have him do?

Aerozord

03-01-2010, 04:09 PM

oh no I meant die as in, normal fight, Grunt went down, fight was over, Grunt got back up. Not dead as in dead and gone

Marc v4.0

03-01-2010, 04:14 PM

Except Garrus likes to eat live rockets now.
You'd think he'd have learned to lay low after half his face got blown off by a minigun in his recruitment mission.

I swear to god he has always eaten rockets. If everything on the field isn't shooting at me and ignoring my team, it means I brought Garrus with me.

Dauntasa

03-01-2010, 07:07 PM

I swear to god he has always eaten rockets. If everything on the field isn't shooting at me and ignoring my team, it means I brought Garrus with me.

He's a bullet magnet. My main strategy in ME1 was just giving Garrus the best armour I could find and having him stand at the front. Me and Kaiden/Wrex would stand a bit behind him and be completely ignored by everyone.

Osterbaum

03-01-2010, 07:12 PM

I never noticed such a thing.

Sir Pinkleton

03-03-2010, 11:09 AM

Man, I finally waded through this thread! Now I can make comments.

I beat it on Insanity with a Sentinel. That was my first playthrough, too. Ironically enough, I only really had problems on a side mission, when you're trying to defend the wounded quarian from the varren on that one random planet? I couldn't kill the varren fast enough. What I did to fix the problem was station Thane and Jacob (I probably could've chosen other people, but I was really reaching for different couplings at that point) in front of the 2 holes that the varren come out of on the left, and snipe/shoot the varren coming out from the right. Surpsisingly, neither one of my teammates died. So yeah, Insanity is a totally different game compared to your guys's experiences, I think, but it could have been harder. Maybe that's just because I _started_ with the harder difficulty, I dunno. Also, the only glitch I found was on the same mission. maybe it was because of the way I used my teammates, but when the ship came and I ran up to it to end the mission? The scene ran, where the quarian limps to the vessel, and Shepard stares down the Varren, and then jumps into the ship at the last second and leaves. a bunch of other random varren were attacking shepard during the cutscene. It was pretty funny. :p

Also, I believe I heard in an interview with one of the developer's that it's true, they want to encourage paragon options. if you're a massive dick wherever you go, everything isn't going to go as well as when you were decent with people. I guess they figured that was more realistic? Or perhaps they just think it makes more sense for Paragon to be the path, and so they made Renegade a little more less desirable, I dunno. I can't remember what the interview said.

synkr0nized

03-03-2010, 11:19 AM

Now that I've blitzkrieg-ed through a playthrough of this game, I can read this thread. And I probably don't need to spoiler-tag things at this point, but I am just in case some fool hasn't played before reading.

My ME1 love interest was Kaiden on this character. He was kind of a meanie poo on Horizon, and no space e-mail after that to apologize is going to quickly make me get over it . Still, I remained faithful to him in the end, even after managing to get Garrus all bashful and embarrassed when I suggested we test out his reach/flexibility idea. Oh Shepherd, you horndog.

My renegade character is going to have so much fun.

Random aside: Other than the fact that he/it is still alive, is Harbringer cooler than Sovereign/Nazara?

Dauntasa

03-03-2010, 12:03 PM

Random aside: Other than the fact that he/it is still alive, is Harbringer cooler than Sovereign/Nazara?

No way. Harbinger had an entire slave race and near unlimited resources, and he failed miserably. Sovereign was basically left all alone with no allies or materials after the Keepers didn't let him activate the Citadel Relay, and he still managed to get within inches of victory. Also, he came across as more of an unfathomable ancient evil whereas Harbinger was just a cosmic dickhead.

Solid Snake

03-03-2010, 12:23 PM

No way. Harbinger had an entire slave race and near unlimited resources, and he failed miserably. Sovereign was basically left all alone with no allies or materials after the Keepers didn't let him activate the Citadel Relay, and he still managed to get within inches of victory. Also, he came across as more of an unfathomable ancient evil whereas Harbinger was just a cosmic dickhead.

Yeah, Sovereign was totally more badass than Harbin...

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

...Are you kiddin' me, Dauntasa? This may hurt you to realize, but Sovereign was a wuss compared to me...
...Uhh...I mean, him, that Harbinger guy, whoever the heck he is.

...Ugh. I'm feelin' a massive migraine headache right now. What's up with that?

synkr0nized

03-03-2010, 12:51 PM

I felt that Harbringer made himself more directly involved in fighting you and taunting you as you ruined the Collectors' shit all day long, whereas Sovereign let Saren run his mouth while he set his plans in motion. Where does that put be between them? I don't know. I like aspects of both of them, and ever since somewhere in the middle of ME1 I have been a huge fan of the Reapers as villains let alone as giant, sentient dreadnoughts.

So, this thread had some great discussion that I could have made neat-o posts for and funny posts that I have now enjoyed and would have loved to join in on, but being late to the party that isn't useful now.

HOWEVER

While your whole crew is indeed fucking awesome down to every last one, no one has mentioned the best random NPC ever. AETHYTA.

Well, Trinity Aria was pretty fun, too. Hmm. Maybe I just like asari a lot.

So many good lines from so many characters, though. And so many great moments (eg: Tali and Garrus reminiscing about elevators; Wrex; singing salarian; making Garrus AND Tali nervous/embarrassed; playing as Joker and thinking "ohshit what?"; Joker and EDI; etc., etc, etc.). This game was amazingly fun, scanning planets aside.

I don't get how you, without wanting to, can fuck up the suicide mission. It's so easy to make the correct choices and not lose anyone -- and why would you not get loyalty from everyone beforehand anyway? That review Krylo posted way back and forum threads I've read -- and some posts here -- where people are all "why am team dying?!" had me all worried that it'd be tough, but poof, T-1000 was destroyed and all was well without really much effort (ok, in fairness, I let Samara run the fire squad the first time before realizing that was a bad idea, and Tali paid for it. Nothing a reload can't fix.).

I could talk about this game, and ME1, all week.

DFM

03-03-2010, 01:34 PM

I lost Zaheed because I didn't do his loyalty mission. I didn't do his loyalty mission because I didn't download him until I was literally leaving for the suicide mission and I was like "Fuck you, new guy, and your Roman ass armor." and just took off.

The Collectors also stole that lamp from the armory. I mean, I didn't see them take it but it's not there anymore and I don't think Mordin would swipe it.

Mirai Gen

03-03-2010, 02:10 PM

Mordin was the only one who died for me but there was seriously no indication of who I should send back. In hindsight it makes sense - Thane can fight better than Mordin - but I was thinking so much of the refugees I hadn't thought about who was holding the line.

DFM

03-03-2010, 02:45 PM

I sent Grunt back with them because I figured if there's anyone who's going to make the Collectors shoot at them and not the crew, it's Grunt.

Aerozord

03-03-2010, 03:13 PM

I was playing renegade so I didn't send anyone back. Plus I waited before heading out so there was like, three people left alive so a figured, screw it, like the collectors would even bother with them. They were the only lose though

I still dont get why people hate Jacob so much. The only reason he seemed dull was because he was the only one that didn't have crap to deal with, loyalty mission asside which he repeatedly said he was already over. No great tragedy, no betrayals, just a skilled soldier. Acting like its a crime to not be emotionally damaged. Sure he doesn't have to be your favorite, but nothing wrong with being normal.

DFM

03-03-2010, 03:22 PM

The only reason he seemed dull was because he never said or did anything interesting.

Solid Snake

03-03-2010, 04:06 PM

Yeah the real problem with Jacob is that he's introduced as essentially Miranda's subordinate and in that context he really has virtually no importance as a character. If you stripped Jacob out of the storyline of Mass Effect 2 he's really the one character whose absence would have absolutely no impact on the plot. Mass Effect 2's story is identical with or without him. At least the other characters introduce new content through their chapters.

Miranda humanizes Cerberus, Jack demonizes Cerberus and acts as Miranda's foil, Tali and Garrus remember Shepard from the Spectre ME1 days and act as links to the past, Mordin's role is instrumental to neutralizing the Collectors, Legion is unique in defying our ME1-enforced stereotypes of the Geth, through Grunt and the krogan homeworld the krogan species is further explored, and Thane, Samara and even Zaeed's lack of importance to the storyline are nullified by their unique and memorable personalities.

By contrast, Jacob is just there. Unlike even Miranda, there's not even really allegiance to a notable organization to associate him with. His opinions are ambivalent and deliberately vague. He's a hired arm with no real purpose beyond being a token black guy, and it's kind of sad that even in a science fiction universe with hordes of unique alien species, Bioware can't figure out what to do with black guys aside from assigning token roles and token personalities to them and then hiding them in the background.

(Let's face it, even Anderson's the same way. There's this strange phenomenon with African American characters where they disproportionately get one-dimensional roles where the writers just assign them 'traits' like 'admirable' or 'dependable' or 'sinister' or 'badass' and they're never fleshed out to a deeper level. I've heard this said before, but it's like white writers consider white characters fully dimensional people with backstories and emotions and crises and conflicts that go beyond first impressions, whereas black characters are just templates you tag adjectives to. Oh, he's the Samuel L. Jackson badass dependable soldier black guy, or oh, he's the Morgan Freeman reliable older articulate black gentleman with strong moral values who can Do No Wrong.)

Jacob's loyalty mission rocks, but even then it's moreso because of the loyalty mission's completely independent storyline -- a storyline that would have played out in the exact same fashion whether Jacob's father happened to be related to Jacob or if this was just another N7 mission with a complete stranger of a spaceship captain acting unethically.

CABAL49

03-03-2010, 05:33 PM

BitVyper

03-03-2010, 05:40 PM

I felt that Harbringer made himself more directly involved in fighting you and taunting you as you ruined the Collectors' shit all day long, whereas Sovereign let Saren run his mouth while he set his plans in motion.

This is pretty much why I didn't like Harbringer as much as Sovereign. With Sovereign, it felt like he considered talking to you at all an insult to his own intelligence. To be fair though, while Harbringer had an army, what he didn't have was a true second in command - someone like Saren who could actually handle most of the job on his own. Of course, that's really his own damn fault.

Dauntasa

03-03-2010, 05:43 PM

Jacob's loyalty mission rocks, but even then it's moreso because of the loyalty mission's completely independent storyline -- a storyline that would have played out in the exact same fashion whether Jacob's father happened to be related to Jacob or if this was just another N7 mission with a complete stranger of a spaceship captain acting unethically.

I really liked that mission, but I think it would have been better if it had nothing to do with Jacob. The concept was great, but the connection with Jacob just sort of felt like it was added at the last minute.

BitVyper

03-03-2010, 05:48 PM

One thing I am coming to dislike is the fact that everyone wants to bang Shepard, but no one else can. Let's say I wanted to bang Miranda. Then Jack and Tali want nothing to do with Shepard. So my choices are then; ignore them and never talk to them, or let them be angry at me.

That tends to be what happens when you lead three girls on and then make a choice in the eleventh hour. You don't actually have to advance your relationships with all three to that point as far as I can tell, since I never had the problem you're talking about. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I'm pretty sure you can talk to them without going down that path.

Open relationships notwithstanding, of course.

Funka Genocide

03-03-2010, 05:50 PM

For some reason, I always assumed the real Shepard was a black guy. Maybe that was just to subconsciously cover up the general paucity of black dudes in the series though.

synkr0nized

03-03-2010, 05:56 PM

Yesh, Jacob was very "ololol here's another character because you need to have squads of three on missions and we aren't giving you anyone cool besides Miranda until you recruit them". I guess I liked some of his conversation tree/whatever enough, the experienced alliance soldier trying to make a difference and all, but he was so very "eh, whatever". I knew from the very beginning that I wasn't going to pursue a romance option with him, and that made him even more useless to me.

Sovereign definitely had the "you are beneath me" bit down pat, and the introduction to indoctrination via him was pretty rad. To Harbringer's credit, though, it/he was controlling a giant army from some kind of ridiculous distance outside of the galaxy. Squandered or not, that's pretty strong, and it/he even had time to smack talk. Also, I admit that I was dumb and initially fell for the "oh Harbringer is the collector they keep showing in that control room-like area" and glossed over that it was a reaper.

e for the romancing talk: While it is, at least to me, very fun to pursue all conversations and learn as much as possible and make all of the characters happy with you, it's pretty clear when one of the options is meant to open up the "Let's mash naughty bits together" avenue. There's always another choice right then that keeps the relationship just friendly instead so that you don't get hurt feelings. Or in one character's case the dialogue preempts you if you were thinking about it. However, to be fair, I think I, as I wasn't intentionally pursuing her on this character, accidentally insulted Tali when it got to that point without realizing I had made it that far in that relationship.

ha ha ha oh man, the advertisements in this game.... Elcor doing Shakespeare, a hanar starring in a movie as a Spectre... Good times everywhere.

BitVyper

03-03-2010, 05:58 PM

By contrast, Jacob is just there. Unlike even Miranda, there's not even really allegiance to a notable organization to associate him with. His opinions are ambivalent and deliberately vague. He's a hired arm with no real purpose beyond being a token black guy, and it's kind of sad that even in a science fiction universe with hordes of unique alien species, Bioware can't figure out what to do with black guys aside from assigning token roles and token personalities to them and then hiding them in the background.

I hope he shows up in ME3 and no one remembers or believes he was on the ship. "Are you sure? I think I would have remembered if we had an armoury officer."

Look for his action figure later this year, conveniently labelled "That Guy" (not to be confused with That Man). (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0i9hvdyxqI)

Oh god, now I want to change Jacob's name to Pedro.

a hanar starring in a movie as a Spectre.

Blasto needs his own spinoff, or better yet, ditch Shepard and make him the new protagonist.

Edit: Wait no, I want a spinoff where we play through all three games again, but from Blasto's perspective, as it turns out that he was going around behind the scenes and doing all the real work while Shepard blundered around the galaxy doing sidequests.

Edit: Also the Shakespeare Elcor, and either the Volus who thought he was god, or the Volus who tried to buy a bunch of upgrades he couldn't afford will be Blasto's sidekicks.

Dauntasa

03-03-2010, 06:29 PM

Edit: Also the Shakespeare Elcor, and either the Volus who thought he was god, or the Volus who tried to buy a bunch of upgrades he couldn't afford will be Blasto's sidekicks.

There should be a game starring Blasto, Niftu Cal, and Conrad Verner.

BitVyper

03-03-2010, 07:08 PM

Oh fuck yes, Conrad Verner. I forgot about him. He's definitely in the game.

Aerozord

03-03-2010, 07:21 PM

though sometimes side characters are awesome because they are side characters. Blasto would be a good example, doing that at every conversation would lose its appeal after awhile

Dauntasa

03-03-2010, 08:22 PM

though sometimes side characters are awesome because they are side characters. Blasto would be a good example, doing that at every conversation would lose its appeal after awhile

I'm pretty sure it'd take at least 4 or 5 playthroughs for that to happen.

BitVyper

03-03-2010, 08:30 PM

DFM

03-03-2010, 11:46 PM

e for the romancing talk: While it is, at least to me, very fun to pursue all conversations and learn as much as possible and make all of the characters happy with you, it's pretty clear when one of the options is meant to open up the "Let's mash naughty bits together" avenue. There's always another choice right then that keeps the relationship just friendly instead so that you don't get hurt feelings. Or in one character's case the dialogue preempts you if you were thinking about it.

One of the things I was almost shocked about was that nobody was obviously trying to jump into Shepard's pants like the first ME. (Except maybe Tali, she's a little blatant. And Jack, I guess, for different reasons and in a different way). That's actually probably the whole reason my canon shep didn't cheat on Liara, I was off to the suicide mission before I realized nobody was banging on my cabin door crying for me.

I have kind of a hard time choosing the "Let's bump uglies" dialog choices because almost all of them sound so damn creepy and you can tell Shepard isn't used to having to try and get a date because she sounds like an awkward teenager saying something she saw work in a movie.

Solid Snake

03-04-2010, 03:36 AM

I have kind of a hard time choosing the "Let's bump uglies" dialog choices because almost all of them sound so damn creepy and you can tell Shepard isn't used to having to try and get a date because she sounds like an awkward teenager saying something she saw work in a movie.

Actually, I liked this element: it humanized a somewhat socially flawed Shepard. Given how so many common citizens seem to believe that Shepard was a hero and a demigod, it was nice to be reminded that a Soldier of his/her expertise wouldn't have had opportunities to engage in all kinds of normal activities like dating. It seemed believable for even a paragon Shepard to be rather blunt, forceful and awkward when expressing interest. If he or she had suddenly waxed romantic and spoke some poetry or something, that would have been far worse for me. The creepiness may seem creepy but in the context of the character it works. It also provides a rational reason as to why Shepard, being a celebrity, isn't experiencing the kind of morally ambiguous rockstar fame others on planet Earth have settled on. Sure, s/he can engage in renegade actions in the context of battles, but s/he isn't exactly capitalizing on his/her status the way s/he could be.

I interpret Tali's relationship with MShepard as particularly representative of this, insofar as Tali, with her young and inexperienced personality, actually has to make it blatantly obvious before Shepard makes his move. When the prototypically shy girl has to paint the picture for you, that's when you know you're not exactly a skilled seducer. And if Shepard was a Romeo or Juliet, in addition to the character's numerous other strengths, it would transform s/he into (even more of a) Mary Sue or Martin Shue.

In conclusion: I actually probably would have enjoyed the flirtation scenes less if Shepard was the kind of smooth talker who could have actually convinced both Liara and Ashley/Kaiden into a threesome. Watching Shepard fall flat on his or her's hopelessly blunt, emotionally clueless ass in the attempt was the far better option.

DFM

03-04-2010, 05:06 AM

Yeah, I just kind of wish there was a more casual option between "Friend Zone" and "I want you noooooooow Thane"

Mirai Gen

03-04-2010, 05:12 AM

Really I'd just settle for an interesting set of human characters you can bang.

Miranda's annoying, Ashely was alright, Kaiden was kinda cool I guess people have told me but I dunno and Jacob's just zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

DFM

03-04-2010, 05:31 AM

I think the first real mod they should make for ME2 is one where in the very beginning of the game just after you get the new Normandy, there's a cutscene where Shepard walks up to Jacob and puts a paper mask of Kaiden's face on his head and snaps the little string against the back of his skull as Shepard steps back to admire her work. From then on, he doesn't have any lines and Shepard refers to him as Kaiden for the rest of the game. During the sex scene prior to the suicide mission, things begin normally with Jacob standing in his cheap paper mask with his shirt off, and Shepard calls him Kaiden, and makes an allusion to how they're going after Sovereign. Kaiden responds "Name's Jacob Taylor."

And then the camera just focuses on Shepard staring sadly.

Mirai Gen

03-04-2010, 05:33 AM

"Not-Kaiden."

DFM

03-04-2010, 05:40 AM

She takes the mask off of him and looks behind her at Thane, who is standing in the hallway confused. She turns back to Jacob and says, again:

"Kaiden."

To which he responds.

"Name's Jacob Taylor. I was a soldier with the Alliance."

Then Shepard blasts him out the airlock. She turns and walks up to Thane and holds up the mask.

"Kaiden."

Aerozord

03-04-2010, 11:30 AM

well even if he was a ladies man, Shepard could never get past his biggest weakness. A complete inability, to dance

She takes the mask off of him and looks behind her at Thane, who is standing in the hallway confused. She turns back to Jacob and says, again:

"Kaiden."

To which he responds.

"Name's Jacob Taylor. I was a soldier with the Alliance."

Then Shepard blasts him out the airlock. She turns and walks up to Thane and holds up the mask.

"Kaiden."

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/aerozord/yuno-gasai-resized.jpg

Azisien

03-04-2010, 11:32 AM

Why is this thread still open?

Dauntasa

03-04-2010, 11:37 AM

Why is this thread still open?

Because it's awesome?

CABAL49

03-04-2010, 03:34 PM

THIS THREAD AIN'T STOPPING UNTIL WE REACH CONSENSUS. I ALSO JUST BEAT INSANITY WOOO!

Osterbaum

03-04-2010, 03:46 PM

Can't stop the signal.

synkr0nized

03-04-2010, 11:28 PM

Why is this thread still open?

Apparently you folks were fine with continuing to talk about the game [and would have just made new threads anyway perhaps], and having not played it through until more recently I was avoiding it on purpose. I figure now that I've read through it all and have also posted, if it does die down in these next couple of days it'll be fine for a close without 10 more ME2 threads being made.

DFM

03-05-2010, 12:29 AM

Bitch ain't run nothin'.

I wanted to say how awesome the club scene in Samara's loyalty quest was. Just strolling in in a military officer's uniform and out-cool-catin' everyone in sight. I'd just finished Grunt's loyalty mission, so after tearing apart a thresher maw with her bare hands, Shepard just drops some names, strolls into a night club and starts doing a slow, aloof kind of dance next to a raver asari.

"I'm dancing here. If you want to pretend we're dancing together, whatever."

And the asari just about creams herself and goes "I'd like that!"

And Shepard just glances slyly at her, head slightly down, her Cerberus logo flashing against the neon strobes.

Then you punch a Turian in the stomach and he crumples to the ground.

Mirai Gen

03-05-2010, 12:43 AM

My biggest problem with that scene is that it isn't a dialog option. It's just a part of the usual affair of Press A To (_____) options.

So I see "(A) Talk", "(A) Talk", "(A) Punch", "(A) Talk"-wait, what?

synkr0nized

03-05-2010, 12:51 AM

I didn't get to slyly starting a fight, but yeah working that room was great. Apparently male Shepherd doesn't have the same cool attitude with that asari. Sucks for him.

Instead of fighting, I got free drinks for everyone and talked some shit to a thug. It was amusing, I guess, but the "meh, dancing" was the best. Oh and then playing Morinth was quite satisfying.

gamemechanicslol -- I totally dig how when it's cool and story-related Thane can hide in the shadows, snipe like nobody's business, crawl around unseen, and tear up mother fuckers but as soon as it's regular game time he wanders out of cover and hugs projectiles.

I am a biotic god!!

DFM

03-05-2010, 01:15 AM

Playing Morinth was great, and they nailed the whole hunting the hunter vibe of it down. My canon shep was the only one who was ever able to use the persuade options to resist her charms at the very end of it, though.

"Look in my eyes. Tell me you want me. Tell me you'll kill for me. Tell me that you're mine, and you'll do anything I want."
"Don't think so."

And she's flabbergasted and actually manages to get out "What... how... who are you?"

Also, on the Biotic God, Shepard's deadpan, almost sarcastic, but not quite, "Charge." was awesome.

BitVyper

03-05-2010, 01:32 AM

I prefer the look he gave at the "smell my greatness" line. That was fantastic.

Aerozord

03-05-2010, 02:54 AM

"I am a great wind, that will blow away all those that stand in my way like....ummm A GREAT WIND"

Krylo

03-05-2010, 03:01 AM

The best part was his biotic attack.

DFM

03-05-2010, 03:03 AM

And when Shepard watches him fly across the room and smash into a bunch of crates and is just like "Whelp." without even changing expressions.

BitVyper

03-05-2010, 04:01 AM

In actuality, that scene is an illusion. The volus trapped everyone in a perpetual dream world while using their bodies as his servants and puppets. The rest of the game is just Shepard's personal delusion of what would have been.

How else do you explain the giant terminator?

DFM

03-05-2010, 06:45 AM

Skynet figured it was the most logical solution to the John Conner problem.

Krylo

03-05-2010, 06:47 AM

DFM

03-05-2010, 06:50 AM

I hope the big reveal for the Reaper motivations in ME3 is just "They're dicks"

Krylo

03-05-2010, 06:52 AM

Marc v4.0

03-05-2010, 07:20 AM

Or for a serious answer, that is how the reapers reproduce and if you look at concept art you can see that the 'giant terminator' would be riding inside the much larger reaper shell that we saw with Sovereign/Harbinger.

Would you happen to have a sample of said concept art, as a search of google has failed me harder then ever before and that is just the kind of stuff that I like having a hold of

BitVyper

03-05-2010, 09:06 AM

I thought the reaper motivation was already revealed in that they harvest the most promising races to reproduce and in order to do that they basically have to wipe out all galactic life because a) otherwise they'd be all advanced and dangerous and shit the next time a reproductive cycle hit and b) it's not like they're just gonna be all, "Yeah sure, take like 99% of our population and use it to make giant evil AI bots."

And since this game couldn't stop mentioning how genetically diverse humans are, I'm gonna guess that it's why they went after humans first. They probably weren't very aware of us before the events of ME1.

Aerozord

03-05-2010, 12:53 PM

Know what I dont get, why is it like, the Protheans were the only race in the last cycle? I mean you never hear about any other sentient race existing at that time

Plus the Reapers gotta take more then one race. Occasionally a race must advance faster, or different from what they suspected and they take a few losses. So making one each cycle is kinda dumb.

And something completely unrelated, anyone else complete the "scan the keepers" mission? Apparently they are closer to the reapers then the collectors. It seemed to imply they were both made by the same people and the Reapers merely used them for their own ends

Dauntasa

03-05-2010, 03:00 PM

DFM

03-05-2010, 03:14 PM

Y'know, if the Reapers only build one new Reaper every time they wipe all life from the galaxy, and it seems like they do, how have they not been wiped out yet? The Alliance isn't particularly advanced, certainly not at a Prothean level, and they managed to take down Sovereign. The combined forces of every sentient spacefarer in the galaxy has to be enough to take down at least one Reaper each time.

They only took down Sovereign because Shepard took out its shields. Normal Reaper plan is to, remotely, shut down the mass relays and close the citadel arms and then warp in everyone. The leaders and any civilians/soldiers at the citadel are killed immediately and then one by one they re-open the mass relays and wipe out every isolated pocket of sentient life.

Edit: And the Protheans weren't actually much more advanced than we were. They did manage to build their own reverse engineered Mass Relay after the fact, though, so that's something.

Aerozord

03-05-2010, 03:22 PM

well we know atleast one race had the ability to kill reapers, it doesn't have to be every cycle someone can. But figure every so often there has to be someone that can take down a few.

Marc v4.0

03-05-2010, 03:28 PM

From an MSN conversation with a friend

y'know, Reapers are on a schedule of roughly every 50,000 years... and that one was killed 37 million years ago... assuming that they're attempting to make a new Reaper in every cycle, and assuming that it usually works, that would mean there would've been 700 or more new Reapers in just that timeframe. and there's nothing to suggest that the Reapers were anything new 37 million years ago

So they have sheer numbers and surprise on their side. We took Sovie down because Shepard fucked up his little plans all over the place, but I'm sure they lose a few reapers here and there over the cycles.

Sithdarth

03-05-2010, 03:29 PM

Who says they only make one. I mean yes you need potentially millions of people to build one reaper but there are easily billions of people to use for fodder. Like even if it took a straight up billion people there would still be enough for over ten of em. I think the number is actually closer to the 10s of millions or 100s of millions per reaper. They only reason they were only making one this time is because they hadn't invaded and didn't have the resources to make more than one. I get the feeling that they make a sort of prototype and if it works they go into larger scale production. If it doesn't they tweak it and try again and so on until they run out of raw materials.

Aerozord

03-05-2010, 03:53 PM

synkr0nized

03-05-2010, 04:10 PM

I don't have this game on PC to take my own screenshot, and it seems no one as posted a good view of the end boss outside of some YouTube videos. I wanted to replace the Terminator with Andross. That's kind of the way I felt the fight went.

Yeah, we didn't directly fight Sovereign, but that was so lame. The only reason I had fun with that fight was thanks to Harbringer.

Also
Were they dubbed "Collectors" by the Citadel races before this game or during this game? It was my understanding it was before, and here they are collecting for their masters. Hur hurr Bioware.

Aerozord

03-05-2010, 04:16 PM

chronologically they were called that before because they "collected" genetic samples (which is code for living sentient beings) and basically did nothing else but trade for them.

Though if you mean in game, this was the first message of them ever I believe

Azisien

03-05-2010, 04:22 PM

yes but it also shows not only is it possible for them to kill a Reaper, it means they have. I also doubt that it was the only one. Eventually after all those hundreds of cycles they'd occasionally come against someone that can put up a decent resistance.

There's a line from some point of ME1, I don't recall much of the context or place now (obviously later in the game though). It was something like "Sovereign may be a Reaper, but it's not all-powerful. Taking on every fleet in the galaxy directly would be suicide, even for it."

I presumed by this description that their technology level is very advanced, but that there's some kind of upper limit for shielding/armour/weapons that is not terribly far off from current technology. That being said, Arcturus fleet was pounding it with its best dreadnoughts and doing nothing and he was one-shotting them back.

Still, I'd be a little more liberal and say they may lose quite a few Reapers every cycle.

synkr0nized

03-05-2010, 04:22 PM

I'm just making fun of Bioware.

Now it's time to throw some dudes out of windows and make fun of everyone I talk to. Oh shoot. I have to finish Bringing Down the Sky now first.

Toast

03-05-2010, 04:28 PM

In ME1, doesn't Vigil say something about hundreds if not thousands of indoctrinated slaves that are left behind after the rest of the Reapers go back into the mass relay and that they starved or destroyed themselves because they're so far gone?

Where does the Collectors being Protheans and Reapers using genetic material to create more of themselves fit into that? On the one hand, Vigil is just a VI that's been stuck on his planet for 50,000 years, but it didn't seem like he was extrapolating what happened. Maybe I'm just hoping that Reaper motivation is still more alien and incomprehensible than just making more of themselves.

Kim

03-05-2010, 04:35 PM

Mass Effect 3 is gonna have Shepard and crew piloting giant robots to take on the giant Terminator Reapers. Calling it now.

Aerozord

03-05-2010, 04:41 PM

I'd buy it

Azisien

03-05-2010, 04:43 PM

I'd cut you down before you got your wallet out.

Kim

03-05-2010, 04:46 PM

He will also yell out the name of his attacks in English, but with a heavy Japanese accent.

Shep: "SHEPARDO OOOOOOVERRRRRRLOOOOOOOOOADDDDD!"

Azisien

03-05-2010, 04:47 PM

Oh whatever, as long as they have a materia system.

BitVyper

03-05-2010, 06:08 PM

I think the number is actually closer to the 10s of millions or 100s of millions per reaper.

Numbers aside, I kinda got the vibe that they pretty much use one species per Reaper. Hell, maybe the first Reaper was a species trying to gain genetic immortality.

DFM

03-05-2010, 06:12 PM

Okay so I must have missed something but why were they building a new Reaper at all? Was it supposed to be a new Sovereign/Vanguard?

I mean, that didn't work the first time.

BitVyper

03-05-2010, 06:15 PM

Okay so I must have missed something but why were they building a new Reaper at all?

Same reason people (intentionally) have babies, presumably.

Edit: Possibly adding a new set of genes to their own enhances them as a species. Maybe they just get bored of each other after awhile?

DFM

03-05-2010, 06:17 PM

No I mean, that's like having babies in a burning house, now is not the time.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

03-05-2010, 06:21 PM

No I mean, that's like having babies in a burning house, now is not the time.

They need a Reaper to be able to try and get the Citadel open again. The vanguard opening it up was plan A. Building a new Reaper to do it is plan B.
Plan C obviously isn't a very good option to them.

BitVyper

03-05-2010, 06:24 PM

No I mean, that's like having babies in a burning house, now is not the time.

But this is how their reproductive process works. It practically requires the burning house.

Plus they're really arrogant. I think they've pretty much made the same mistake of underestimating the galaxy's ability to fight back.

Like, I haven't played Mass Effect 1 in a long time, but as I recall, the main reason we were able to fight back against Sovereign was because of shit with the Protheans giving Shepard a chance to give everyone else a chance to fight back at all.

I doubt many Reapers have ever been lost in the past, 'cause shit probably usually goes exactly according to keikaku*

*Keikaku means plan

Edit: Grth's idea works too.

DFM

03-05-2010, 06:24 PM

Plan B is pretty terrible too, unless it wasn't even Plan B and was more like "Ummm shit somebody do something, I'm not hoofing it."

Edit: Bitvyper I'm saying making new Reapers is what they do after they conquer the galaxy and harvest everybody, making one before you even invade was like "This is nonsensical why are you doing this."

synkr0nized

03-05-2010, 06:27 PM

There are preserving humanity, giving us something better and making us eternal, before they wipe out the galaxy again. I mean, don't you trust Harbringer?

DFM

03-05-2010, 06:28 PM

Harbinger knows the only way you can defeat the Reapers is to trick them into letting you become the next Vanguard and then you just take a nap for infinity.

BitVyper

03-05-2010, 06:33 PM

Bitvyper I'm saying making new Reapers is what they do after they conquer the galaxy and harvest everybody, making one before you even invade was like "This is nonsensical why are you doing this."

Unless you're building it in a hidden spot right in the middle of a fuckload of black holes that no one could ever possibly get to except Harbinger pulled a really dumb fuck move that let Shepard get on the path to an IFF.

Like seriously, why bait him into the ship like that? He can't possibly protect every human colony in the Terminus systems at once, and if you really really want to take care of him right this minute, why not just blow the Normandy out of the fucking sky/stars/whatever again and actually find his body instead of trying to buy it this time?

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

03-05-2010, 06:36 PM

Plan B is pretty terrible too, unless it wasn't even Plan B and was more like "Ummm shit somebody do something, I'm not hoofing it."

Yeah. That's basically what it seems to be.

Especially since apparently plan C is fly there with whatever standard drive systems they have.

Azisien

03-05-2010, 06:44 PM

And that's making me wonder if Mass Effect 3 is like 30% Shepard preparing for the ultimate war and then the last 70% is essentially Heavy Rain gameplay in Shepard retirement and then he dies and then there's some text in the credits about how in 45 million years the Reaper fleet arrives and destroys the galaxy.

I mean why have a vanguard if they can just fly back?

And why have the vanguard if they're aware in dark space anyway? I guess Sovereign's death gave the other Reapers like an alarm clock or something?

Aerozord

03-05-2010, 06:55 PM

Sovereign's death gave the other Reapers like an alarm clock or something?

thats what it seems like, he said they were all in a stasis. Though even if they can just fly back there are a few reasons their current situation is better. First is it is taking them years to get to the Milkyway. Second is they want the element of suprise. Which Sovereign had if you recalled. They use a strategy which I call, breaking the enemies back, where you make a single massive assult so strong you cripple your enemy beyond their ability to recover. They normally fly in, raze the center of their culture, shut down transportation and communication systems, and pick off whats left.

On Harbinger's plan. Am I the only one that thinks of each Reaper as an independent being? I thought this was Harbinger's plan, not the Reapers' plan. That he was acting alone and pushing his own agenda and method of attack. If not I see no reason he'd be the only one doing it.

DFM

03-06-2010, 12:00 PM

I just thought of Shepard running her little suicide mission when every collector in the galaxy jumps up and goes "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL"

BitVyper

03-06-2010, 03:24 PM

And why have the vanguard if they're aware in dark space anyway? I guess Sovereign's death gave the other Reapers like an alarm clock or something?

I'm kind of thinking there's an energy concern here. I mean, what actually powers the Reapers if they're outside the galaxy? Unless they've got some kind of extragalactic power source (and they don't really seem like they're THAT advanced to me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Lords)) they must have to recharge the batteries every so often, which seems like another possible reason for their time table. They might just be letting organic life build itself up enough to be a meal worth eating.

Maybe they just spend a thousand or so years living it up (after the Vanguard cripples us), and then when the party is over they go into hibernation until the galaxy is ready again.

On Harbinger's plan. Am I the only one that thinks of each Reaper as an independent being? I thought this was Harbinger's plan, not the Reapers' plan. That he was acting alone and pushing his own agenda and method of attack. If not I see no reason he'd be the only one doing it.

Well, I think it's his own plan the same way a general's strategy is his own plan. I doubt Harbinger was acting outside the interests of the Reapers as a whole. It is possible though. I mean, they aren't exactly a friendly people, although who's to say how they treat each other.

greed

03-07-2010, 02:06 AM

Damnit BitVyper your avatar's making me want a Sinistar themed Reaper leading their fleet in ME3.

*Reapers jump out of super FTL in front of Citadel fleet*

Turian Councillor: What no you.... you're not rea
Sinistar Reaper: RUN COWARD

DFM

03-07-2010, 02:09 AM

Ah, yes, you "live". We have dismissed your claims.

BitVyper

03-07-2010, 02:11 AM

And then Sinistar sulkily flies away to go eat chocolate and post on his livejournal.

Ape Boy

03-07-2010, 11:11 AM

Love this series, can't wait for more pan-sexual clothes-on dry-humping.

Favorite team was Vanguard Shepard w/ Sniper training, along with Garrus and Legion. Triple sniper rifles for the untouchable death wave win, with some shotgunnery for those damn husks.

Grunt was fun, too. Headbutting things is fantastic. Can only hope Shepard bangs a Krogan in ME3 and that headbutting plays a vital part.

Sir Pinkleton

03-07-2010, 12:56 PM

I realized something that I don't think has been brought up yet.

We don't have any proof that the collector's were doing what they were doing, right? The goddamn council still won't be any help in ME3, not that they'd be helpful regardless.

Honestly, what's up with that Turian that he can't not be an ass? Did his mother never love him or something?

DFM

03-07-2010, 01:33 PM

"The testimony of one traumatized colony and a known terrorist organization is hardly compelling evidence."

Aerozord

03-07-2010, 02:03 PM

well if you didn't nuke the collector ship you can actually grab the proto-reapers body, drag it back to the citidal and tell the council "THIS EVIDENCE COMPELLING ENOUGH!?"

Marc v4.0

03-07-2010, 02:07 PM

Wait, I just realized...You HAVE Video evidence from Freedom's progress that the Collectors are behind all this.

What the shit ever happened to that?

Ape Boy

03-07-2010, 02:31 PM

That's only evidence of the Collector's, though, not what they were doing with those collected or that they have ties to the Reapers.

The Collectors were already known about and have had transactions with peoples prior to the mass collection, IIRC.

On the other side of the coin, FUCK the Council. Everything Shepard has done has been done without the help of that damn pussified Council, so tell them to pound sand.

Commander Shepard is a direct descendant of Jack Bauer, and the Council only serves to get in the way, just like governments/laws/protocol/drugs/family/all women ever created only served to get in the way of Bauer.

Jack dealt with that by torturing then exploding every one of them. Shepard should tell the Council to stay out of the way or face random bouts of death, after being seduced.

Mirai Gen

03-07-2010, 02:51 PM

On every side of the coin, fuck the Council.

That Turian, as it was said, could stop the entire Reaper attack by himself by just scoffing and claiming it doesn't exist.

ZevN47

03-07-2010, 05:52 PM

true

G.I.R.

03-08-2010, 10:47 AM

That Turian, as it was said, could stop the entire Reaper attack by himself by just scoffing and claiming it doesn't exist.

I really want to see that happen. It would fill me with joy to just watch the Turian councilor literally talk the Reapers out of existence through sheer force of will.

DFM

03-08-2010, 11:29 AM

Shepard stares, slackjawed, at the now empty mass of space outside the citadel and the Turian Councilor turns from the window and walks past her, letting out a single, annoyed, scoff.

Azisien

03-08-2010, 11:49 AM

Given its like the 23rd century of whatever, I'm amazed there's not ridiculous amounts of audio/video footage of everything. Cameras on the ships, cameras on everyone's spacesuits, cameras on everyone's cameras.

If the Council were actually looking at the footage that SHOULD be there, they might do more. Maybe. I think it's just a massive parody of global warming.

G.I.R.

03-08-2010, 01:46 PM

So... Commander Shepard is Al Gore?

Ape Boy

03-08-2010, 05:39 PM

So... Commander Shepard is Al Gore?

...And Harbinger is ManBearPig! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!!

Aerozord

03-08-2010, 06:40 PM

well in this case its more like ManRobotSquid

Reapers look like squids to me

G.I.R.

03-09-2010, 09:39 AM

Maybe Mass Effect is one big Lovecraftian adventure. Harbinger is actually Cthulhu coming to drive everyone mad! He controlled the Collectors... they're coming from the deep of space... It all makes sense now!

DFM

03-14-2010, 12:24 PM

http://logan-1.mirror.waffleimages.com/files/53/539381c3e1d4206116a22f3fa092f8513e8ff0ef.jpg

Revising Ocelot

03-14-2010, 02:09 PM

Blank post bumps are bad bumps and everybody should mock DFM and shame him until he melts into a puddle of regret.

Wish Steam would do a weekend deal for ME2 already, they discounted DA:O fairly early... My ME1 is also Steam and I'm uncertain a retail copy would accept the save transfer. Plus I'm a cheapskate.

Melfice

03-14-2010, 02:13 PM

Blank post bumps are bad bumps and everybody should mock DFM and shame him until he melts into a puddle of regret.

Yeah, I don't know why the image won't show either in the thread, but next time you should probably just click the "quote" button and then Copy/Paste the link into your browser. Or sometimes just clicking "Back" works too.

Viridis

03-14-2010, 02:40 PM

Here ya go. Dropbox (https://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTIzODMzNjg5) remains awesome.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2383368/539381c3e1d4206116a22f3fa092f8513e8ff0ef.jpg

Mannix

03-14-2010, 05:17 PM

I don't know how anybody plays any class outside of Infiltrator. I gave up on on Vanguard despite really wanting to play as one after dying like 20 times on the Garrus mission, even on easy.

Also, listening to that bachelor party on Illium raised an interesting issue: namely that apparently the Asari have mind powers that control how you perceive them.

Revising Ocelot

03-14-2010, 06:26 PM

Yeah, I don't know why the image won't show either in the thread, but next time you should probably just click the "quote" button and then Copy/Paste the link into your browser. Or sometimes just clicking "Back" works too.

I didn't even see a link. Just nothing at all. *shrug*

Krylo

03-14-2010, 06:27 PM

I don't know how anybody plays any class outside of Infiltrator. I gave up on on Vanguard despite really wanting to play as one after dying like 20 times on the Garrus mission, even on easy.By not sucking.

I beat the game on normal with Vaguard and it was much more fun than Infiltrator. Things to remember: Pick your charge targets carefully. Just because you HAVE the power doesn't meant you should use it first thing every single battle. Heavy charge refills your shields every time you use it--once you get it powered up to that point, you can stay alive through repeated charging.

Also, listening to that bachelor party on Illium raised an interesting issue: namely that apparently the Asari have mind powers that control how you perceive them.No they don't. You see pictures and movies and what not of them. You shouldn't take lessons in xenobiology from drunks sitting around a stripper.

Edit for revolver: You WOULD see a link if you hit quote on the post. In the quote box. Between img tags.

BitVyper

03-14-2010, 06:51 PM

By not sucking.

I beat the game on normal with Vaguard and it was much more fun than Infiltrator.

Same, but I will admit that I died a fair bit before I got the hang of this:

Pick your charge targets carefully.

Yeah, you have to be careful or you kill one guy then get killed by five. I liked the upgraded charge that slows down time after you hit (I forget which one that is). Gives you a chance to shoot someone else, by which point you're orientated enough to take a third down before the guy you hit with the charge gets back up. Alternatively, you just shoot the guy you hit with your charge while he's still in midair for the sheer awesome of it.

No they don't. You see pictures and movies and what not of them.

I think it's more of an unconscious thing where people just tend to see what they want to see in subtle ways when they look at the Asari. It could be just a trick of biology, or it could be a combination of that and an actual unconscious biotic/illusory effect of some sort. I tend to lean toward the latter when I see a Krogan thoroughly smitten by them. What seems odd to me is that everyone perceives them as women, even races with vastly different anatomy, like the Krogan and Volus. Even the Asari all seem to identify as gender female, which just seems weird. Of course, it's all more than likely because the designers wanted hot space lesbians, but still.

Regardless, you do take lessons in xenobiology from the writers behind the setting, and they're the guys who dropped that detail conspicuously into the game. It may not be exactly as they said it, but the suggestion is very pointedly there.

Krylo

03-14-2010, 06:57 PM

Regardless, you do take lessons in xenobiology from the writers behind the setting, and they're the guys who dropped that detail conspicuously into the game. It may not be exactly as they said it, but the suggestion is very pointedly there.

From drunks. In a joke scene.

You see statues and holovids of them. They obviously look just like they are shown in game. There's no way they could make a biotic illusion over themselves that appeals to every race 100% of the time, nor could they implant some psychic suggestion of how they looked into everyone's mind that would override these images--because SOMEONE would see the images before seeing an actual asari.

Mordin has some ideas on why other races find them attractive that make much more sense, but the idea that they look different to different people is pretty strictly in the 'no that's not even possible' sector.

Revising Ocelot

03-14-2010, 07:04 PM

Edit for revolver: You WOULD see a link if you hit quote on the post. In the quote box. Between img tags.

Aye, but how would I have known that would show it? Sorry, anyway.

Krylo

03-14-2010, 07:05 PM

You wouldn't.

But that's what Melfice was suggesting.

BitVyper

03-14-2010, 07:16 PM

There's no way they could make a biotic illusion over themselves that appeals to every race 100% of the time

Hey, look where I didn't say that. Obviously if everyone always viewed them as physical and sexual perfection, all that would be left in the universe would be Asari. I'm saying that they're really good at drawing attention to the right details. I also mentioned that it's entirely possible that this is a trick of biology. I just tend to believe there could be some subtle reinforcement there because you've got Volus looking for Asari sex-upgrades, and Krogan writing poetry for them. Hell, maybe there is and it's entirely case-specific. Maybe when biotics are a given part of your culture, you just treat it like make-up.

You're acting like I said they have Discworld elf-level glamour in effect. I didn't. I said people tend to see what they want to see. This is a pretty classic sci-fi concept with the possibility of a little mental urging thrown in.

And have you ever seen a picture of someone, then met them for real? It's a pretty different experience, and depending on the person and the pictures can force your mind to rewrite its perception of a person. It'd be the reverse of "her picture was ten years younger and twenty pounds lighter."

Maybe they just ooze sexuality, and peoples' own minds fill in the blanks

but the idea that they look different to different people is pretty strictly in the 'no that's not even possible' sector.

I think you need to rewatch the scene with the drunks. You're paying too much attention to the line about mind control and not enough to what they say before it. Each one notices physical attributes about the Asari that are very present.

Of course, being a dancer specifically trying to allure three different species, it's entirely possible that she was pulling some mental influence on them (which wouldn't exactly be hard in this case), but that would be a bit more case specific. Unless the fact that so many Asari go off and do just this in the early stages of their adulthood has caused galactic culture to view them in such a way that is very conducive to sexuality.

Solid Snake

03-14-2010, 07:43 PM

RE: Shepard's Secret Shame, I noticed a few minutes after reading the comic that the exact same conversation would have been much less hysterical (and much less 'cute') and much more creepy if everything remained exactly the same but femShep was replaced with maleShep.

It's strange because the general consensus is that society's expectations demonize women who sleep around and act slutty while giving men a free pass, whereas my reactions in this case cut the exact opposite way.

...Just a random thought.

In other news I can't believe I went through two ME1 playthroughs (maleShep paragon and femShep RINO) without realizing the existence of Achievements. They're well hidden in the PC version of the game.

Krylo

03-14-2010, 08:15 PM

Hey, look where I didn't say that.
Hey, look where you DID say EXACTLY that.
It could be just a trick of biology, or it could be a combination of that and an actual unconscious biotic/illusory effect of some sort. I tend to lean toward the latter when I see a Krogan thoroughly smitten by them.

The whole "You notice the parts that are closer to your own anatomy" thing is probably correct. Mordin suggest there's some kind of neurotransmitter given off by Asari as well--as that hormones wouldn't work cross species.

But any illusionary effect is in the 'not possible' area due to holovids, sculptures, photos, etc.

Aerozord

03-14-2010, 10:10 PM

am I the only one that remembers biotics aren't psychic in any way. Biotics is the users ability to generate mass effect fields naturally. Asari do have something, completely unrelated, thats simular in their mind-melding but that requires physical contact.

Most likely its a species bias. A "of course they are sexy, they resemble my species" kind of thing. Just picking out what is closer to your species then the other. Its a "see what you want to, ignore what you dont" kind of thing. Turian would point out how they have simular pigmentation, human would point out the breasts, ect

DFM

03-14-2010, 10:26 PM

IT SHOWS UP FOR ME, GUYS

bluestarultor

03-14-2010, 10:32 PM

To offer a different perspective, rather than there being a ton of universal items that mean at least one will appeal to every race out there (because short of symmetry, the races are pretty distinct), it might just be other subtle hints in things like body language that allow them to attract other species. Body language is one of those things that theoretically can be picked up in a very brief period and contains many subtleties that can be used to hint at things or be totally blatant about them on a sliding scale. So, say, a Krogan female might stand one way to make herself alluring, and an Asari might stand the same sort of way, only less so, giving off a subconscious hint that niggles in the back of a Krogan's head.

Other things to consider are tone, inflection, and speech patterns. To continue the Krogan example, an Asari might assume a harder tone near one to reflect their martial tendencies, maybe use more assertive or aggressive speech patterns, etc.

There are a lot of ways you can draw similarities between yourself and another species past "LOOK AT ME, I HAVE BEWBS!" And they're probably more effective.

Dauntasa

03-14-2010, 11:00 PM

bluestarultor

03-14-2010, 11:07 PM

The main thing is that every sentient species has basically the same body composition. Two arms, two legs, and a head, connected by a torso. Some are short and round, some are tall and square, but all of them are actually pretty close to Asari. Close enough that every species being in some way attracted to them isn't really that weird. Well, except for the Hanar.

In that case, I dare you to find a really hot gorilla-chick. Hell, we even share like 98% of the same DNA!

Point being there has to be better than just sharing the same number and types of limbs. Unless you're a furry. But even then, Garrus drops that cross-species romance is considered a fetish, so I guess there's not much difference.

You heard it, folks: Garrus is furry for Shepard.

DFM

03-14-2010, 11:13 PM

Actually he's not furry for Shepard, it's just one of those "Well, I love you, so I'll have sex with you even though you're ugly as sin." things

Aerozord

03-15-2010, 01:26 AM

IT SHOWS UP FOR ME, GUYS

thats just fantastic

DFM

03-15-2010, 02:27 AM

RE: Shepard's Secret Shame, I noticed a few minutes after reading the comic that the exact same conversation would have been much less hysterical (and much less 'cute') and much more creepy if everything remained exactly the same but femShep was replaced with maleShep.

It's strange because the general consensus is that society's expectations demonize women who sleep around and act slutty while giving men a free pass, whereas my reactions in this case cut the exact opposite way.

I don't know, I think it'd be just as funny/cute/creepy either way.

Edit: I think it only gets really creepy if you make either femshep or malshep fat and neckbeardy

Edit 2: Nevermind that makes it hilarious

thats just fantastic

I CAN'T PREDICT YOUR CRAZY RESOLUTIONS AND BROWSER AND COOKIE SETTINGS.

Melfice

03-15-2010, 03:17 AM

I CAN'T PREDICT YOUR CRAZY RESOLUTIONS AND BROWSER AND COOKIE SETTINGS.

WELL, YOU SHOULD.
Go learn precognition just for these occasions!

But seriously. I've had that happen before where somebody would seemingly make an empty post. I just learned to click quote so I could Copy/Paste the link and stuff.

Aerozord

03-25-2010, 04:33 PM

So got some new missions from Cerberus Network, and suprise, Vechile sections.

THAT DONT SUCK

well. Better then the mako atleast. Though thats not saying much

Mannix

03-25-2010, 05:30 PM

So got some new missions from Cerberus Network, and suprise, Vechile sections.

THAT DONT SUCK

well. Better then the mako atleast. Though thats not saying much

too bad you ONLY get to use it during that handful of missions and it's pretty much worthless for the rest of the game.

Aerozord

03-25-2010, 05:56 PM

my money is they released it to see if people like it, to know whether or not to use it in the next game.

Krylo

03-25-2010, 06:20 PM

too bad you ONLY get to use it during that handful of missions and it's pretty much worthless for the rest of the game.

Were you expecting a DLC to rewrite every mission in the game to make it use a vehicle?

Solid Snake

03-25-2010, 08:32 PM

I dunno man, I gotta confess, the PC version of the Hammerhead's control scheme sucks so much it makes the Mako look good.

...Not even kidding. I've crashed the Hammerhead far more often. Probably doesn't help that the computer control scheme is reported incorrectly, too. (Right Mouse instead of V to pick up strangely colored research items, etc.)

Gotta say, I've enjoyed the $2 optional clothing for Garrus, Thane and Jack more than the Hammerhead. So far.

Mannix

03-27-2010, 10:37 AM

Were you expecting a DLC to rewrite every mission in the game to make it use a vehicle?

Kind of. That's the situation with every other DLC they've released for the game so far, where they could easily make the other DLC the same way the hammerhead was. Want the arc cannon? Gotta run through these 3 missions where it's only useful there. I realize the situation with the vehicle is different, of course, but that doesn't make it less meh for me. If they had charged for it I wouldn't have gotten it, but it's free so it's no skin off my nose. It's even less useful than the three piddly new outfits that they DID charge for because at least you can use them throughout the rest of the game.

BitVyper

03-27-2010, 11:12 AM

I thought the point of DLC was getting more content to play through, which is what it sounds like this did.

DFM

03-27-2010, 11:53 AM

Also to get more costumes for Garrus.

Garrus.

It is dress up time.

Melfice

03-27-2010, 12:00 PM

Also to get more costumes for Garrus.

Garrus.

It is dress up time.

But only if you get to dress him up as Kaiden. Otherwise, fuck that. (Or it has to be very pretty clothes.)

Azisien

03-27-2010, 12:18 PM

Zaeed needs a tutu or leotard costume. His stories would be so much more impressive.

Mannix

03-28-2010, 05:09 PM

I thought the point of DLC was getting more content to play through, which is what it sounds like this did.

I guess there's that. I'm just feeling let down by the whole affair.

Aerozord

03-28-2010, 05:29 PM

I kind of have the point of view, why are you complaining about free extra content. It existing is in no way hurting you, it can only add to the game.

Mannix

03-28-2010, 06:05 PM

I kind of have the point of view, why are you complaining about free extra content. It existing is in no way hurting you, it can only add to the game.

I'm not complaining about it so much as stating my opinion that I didn't like it that much, and like I said in my original post on this topic the fact that it's free means that opinion isn't a terribly strong one.

Solid Snake

03-31-2010, 08:25 PM

YYYYYYEEEEESSSSSSSS

I FOUND IT

I found the missing OST that also happens to be the single greatest piece of music playing at the single most intense moment of Mass Effect 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcScbgc5HqA

This song happens to scream:
LEGION IS IN THE VENTS AND HE'S IN TROUBLE
MIRANDA IS UPDATING ME AND STRUGGLING WITH THE FIRE TEAM
GARRUS AND TALI ARE WITH ME AND THEY'RE TAKING SERIOUS DAMAGE
HOLY CRAP THERE ARE COLLECTORS EVERYWHERE
THE GENERAL IS TAUNTING ME
I HAVE TO PUSH THE BUTTON I HAVE TO FIND THE BUTTON WHERE IS IT FFFFUUUUCCCKKKK THIS IS SSSSOOOO INTENSE

...Best part of the game.
It's not even close.

Revising Ocelot

03-31-2010, 08:34 PM

Steam I love you normally but why haven't you done a Mass Effect 2 sale yet? *grumblegrumble*

Kerensky287

04-01-2010, 12:18 AM

Yumil

04-01-2010, 05:24 PM

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/secret-romance-mass-effect/63941

Yes, that's exactly what should happen.

Revising Ocelot

04-19-2010, 12:16 PM

So during the forum downtime I decided "bugrit", and got Mass Effect 2 regardless of the lack of sale. Completed it yesterday, even had a flawless suicide mission.

Well, almost flawless, Miranda got shot in the stomach at the second Hold The Line part, probably because I took Garrus with me to the Human-Reaper along with Tali instead of leaving him at the line, but she just shrugged it off instead of dieing. I don't like just how ridiculously the forward tanks are buoyant and elevated, and there's something wrong with her face too that I can't work out. *shrug*

Anyways, this topic can't stop 8 posts short of 1000, heh.

Gonna start a new playthrough on Veteran or Hardcore in a fortnight, I think. Great game, itching to play again already but I'll pause for now.

Melfice

04-19-2010, 12:23 PM

I don't like just how ridiculously the forward tanks are buoyant and elevated, and there's something wrong with her face too that I can't work out. *shrug*

Well, the "forward tanks" are not that weird. Either the jumpsuit's got some awesome push-up technology worked in it, or they're just... grown that way. She is perfect, after all. And you know all us men want big breasts that defy gravity.

The face... I gotta agree on. She's attractive, but it's just... "How the hell is it possible I like your face with a face like that!?"

Raiden

04-19-2010, 01:55 PM

It took me a while, but I think I pinpointed what's weird about her face.

It's her jaw. She's got a weird man jaw. Or an under bite, or something, but her bottom jaw is just insanely noticeable.

Also, I beat Insane mode just a little while ago, finally getting every achievement in the game. Though time for a quick review of the DLC:

1) Firewalker.

This DLC is REALLY nice, especially considering it's free. It gives you the replacement for the Mako, named The Hammerhead, which is SO MUCH BETTER THAN THE MAKO. They read my mind or something, since they gave up wheels altogether and instead gave it a hover function. Much more maneuverable, and its jet ability takes you insane high and the jets don't cut out, so instead of just dropping out of the air you can slowly hover down. Also, its rockets are homing, which are great.

The DLC also gives you five missions which, sadly, are the only places you can use the Hammerhead. However these missions are great for XP, plus they open up systems that are full of Platinum-rich planets. Which was beautiful. However, there's no real epic feel to it. It's a DLC that is placed outside the game, since it really doesn't do much to make you feel like it's part of it.

Over all a 4/5. Quality DLC for free, new resources and something fun to do for XP, however you can only use the vehicle in those missions and it feels too separated from the main game to really solidify a 5.

2) Kasumi

This for-pay DLC includes the final Squad member to your party. Kasumi is a Japanese Thief for hire who's not only great with Tech, but also adds two new moves to the game. One is a cloaking teleportation move that does major damage (her character only), and the flashbang grenade that does some minor damage and confuses the enemies (a power you can learn).

Her loyalty mission is great, with a whole section involving no combat and is instead a social setting, gathering DNA or voices in order to break into a vault. Once you're in said vault you find interesting things such as the head of the Statue of Liberty and a statue of an Ogre from Dragon Age. Of course, the combat that does happen is intense and satisfying.

This DLC grants you a new squad member who is easily integrated into the game, with dialogue in the field and a one-sided dialogue on the ship like Zaeed. It also gives you an insanely powerful and accurate SMG (you have to keep an eye out for it, it's REALLY easy to miss. Hint: It's right next to the plot point of why you're in the vault in the first place. Just look there.), a new outfit for wearing on the ship, a LOT of credits, as well as a fuel station and a new system in the galaxy with the Citadel.

I give it a 5/5, as it has length, quality, and greatly enhances the gameplay of the rest of the game. Bioware has great writing, and they're not slouching even on the smaller DLC.

3) Clothes Pack

This is a very minor DLC that gives new looks to Thane, Jack, and Garrus. Garrus looks like a walking computer tower, Thane gets a new leather jacket and shades to cover his eyes, and Jack gains a shirt. An actual, honest to god, shirt.

I give this DLC a 2/5. This doesn't mean that I disliked the DLC. I liked it, but it was the first of the ME2 DLC you had to pay for. And though it didn't cost much, if I'm paying for an outfit DLC I'd expect more than just three squad members getting a new outfit. Also, they're a pretty specific type of clothes (pick if you like sunglasses and coats, that's what you're getting), so if you don't like the look it'd be a waste.