Silent Hill 4 Isn't That Bad...

[Seil]

So I lucked out when going to EB to get into Silent Hill again, and picked up a used copy for $4.00 - yeah, someone dropped off 2, 3, and 4 and they sold them all that day for $4. Awesome. But why in the crap would you sell 2 and 3, arguably the best games from the original Silent Hill team? Oh well. I had some good fortune, and picked up Silent Hill 4.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/silent/images/a/a1/SH4.jpg

Now I like Silent Hill 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfnTrAxTFfk&feature=related) - I know it wasn't originally going to be a Silent Hill video game, but they got a lot of things right. The environments are there, the music is as awesome as it ever was, the enemies are trademark Silent Hill, though not as psychologically interesting as they were in 2. Also, I concede that SH4 has one of my top five Silent Hill deaths - Cynthia Velasquez. It struck a chord with me.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/silent/images/5/5c/Cynthia.png

Now, it's criticized for having a few design flaws. Instead of the box/color health system, you've got an actual health meter. The inventory system is different, too - you can only carry a certain amount of items, and bullets don't stack. You've also got an attack meter, which allows you to do a quick light attack, or a strong heavy attack. The biggest change, though, is in the game play - instead of a puzzle solving focus, the game is more on a hole focus. At the beginning of the game - A well-done introduction, I think, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG63Z0QPvKo&feature=related) it sets the scene pretty well - you're locked in your apartment room, and the only way out is through a hole in your bathroom. In order to store items and save, you need to return to your apartment periodically through holes scattered through an area.

http://whatistechnoagain.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/sh4-henry.jpg

Now, while most games in the SH series have you using a wide assortment of items in order to make a key for a door, such as the Tarot puzzle in Silent Hill 3, or using an item, like a camera, or finding a memo containing a password to a door. Silent Hill 4 still has the puzzle solving aspect of "take item A to place B, use A to collect C." That's still there - but the focus is more on the story - and Silent Hill games can do story.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7104/silenthill4200907311739.png

As Henry Townshend, you're locked in your apartment. It's been days, and you can't get out. A hole appears in your bathroom, and traveling through it you meet a girl named Cynthia Velasquez in some strange subway station. Cynthia's convinced it's a dream, but Henry isn't sure. It becomes apparent that there's something wrong when Cynthia runs into the girl's bathroom, then, out of the men's room, come strange dogs who quickly attack Henry.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/silent/images/thumb/f/fd/HenryTownshend.PNG/178px-HenryTownshend.PNG

It's different than then the first three, that's for sure. But it's more Silent Hill than Origins or Homecoming. I like Henry because he's very relatable; we're both filled in, brown haired introverts, we wear a white collared shirt and jeans everywhere, and the only real terrible deed we've done in our past is move into the wrong apartment. Walter Sullivan, the antagonist, is genuinely creepy - another innovation in SH4 is that you can look through the peephole and see other tenants - and sometimes Sullivan will walk into view and stand there watching you watch him through the peephole.

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/14030/619191-walter_large.jpg

The game is awesome, and though it doesn't completely follow the Silent Hill format, it's still a fantastic Silent Hill game. Silent Hill 1 set the bar, 2 is one of the best games of all time, 3 continued the tradition with some great moments and 4, well, see above. The originals are still the best.

[MSperoni]

This was actually the only one I didn't play through, 3 was my favorite of 'em though.

If I could find it for 4$ I'd probably get it though, just to say I played 'em all.

I'm not counting that one on the Wii though..

[Seil]

I don't think anyone counts that one.

[Kim]

SH4 was pretty awesome. The backtracking through all the levels at the end was fucking STUPID, but everything else was pretty great, assuming you're a fan of the SH formula to begin with. When your house starts getting haunted like crazy near the end, that is freaky as shit. Enemy design was really lacking, though.

[MSperoni]

Was enemy design a bunch of naked zombie people over and over? :D

[Seil]

In shattered memories? Pretty much - also, the endings are pretty arse.

I think I agree with what Yahtzee from ZP has been saying about the latest Silent Hill games - that if they didn't bear the SH moniker, we would be kinder to it. As such, Silent Hill nerds have been raised on the early games and expect the bar to be set somewhere in the stratosphere.

[Mirai Gen]

I honestly don't think a title with a kind face could save any game from repeating the same levels in reverse order in any game.

[MSperoni]

I never really felt Silent Hill was THAT beloved of a franchise to warrant bias one way or the other tho. Not like, say, Final Fantasy. Yeah they made a movie on it, but they also made ones on "Alone in the Dark" and "Farcry" :p

Based on what I read at the awesome review site for awesome people who review things awesomely and are awesome with an awesome banner (Gamepad Dojo) I don't think Shattered Memories would win much approval, Silent Hill or no Silent Hill slapped in front of it. Unless NonCon's a bitter little liar and was spinning his review toward the negative for entertainment purposes but why would he do that? This is the internet! All things are true. (tho honestly, I do figure he was genuinely serious about its suckitude)

That being said, and speaking of Final Fantasy, would Crystal Bearers have been "better" had "Final Fantasy" not been in front of it and raised those subconscious expectations? (I've never played it but I heard it sucked/was mediocre)

[Mirai Gen]

Yeah MemorWiis was pretty terrible. I think the whole 'being nicer to Silent Hill' applied to 4 and Homecoming.

[phil_]

That being said, and speaking of Final Fantasy, would Crystal Bearers have been "better" had "Final Fantasy" not been in front of it and raised those subconscious expectations? (I've never played it but I heard it sucked/was mediocre)Crystal Bearers would have been better if it was easier to use something other than throwing in battle. For example, you can grab a tonberry and stab the heck out of things, but to do that first you have to knock him off his feet, then pick him up, and then you get one (super powerful) stab before throwing him away. There are swords lying around on the ground. Why can't I stab up guys with those?

Also, maybe removing the time-limits from fights and making them dangerous instead. I can think of two non-optional fights where surviving is more of a concern than just not getting a time-out. If all the fights were closer to that but without a time-limit, then not only would the challenge remain, but it would be a more satisfying challenge.

Giving Belle even one redeeming quality could also help.

This has been your "phil_ popping in to talk about a game mentioned in periphery that has nothing to do with the subject of the thread" moment of the day.

[MSperoni]

Crystal Bearers would have been better if..

Well I figure it would have been better if it was just a better game :p What I meant was if the FF lable wasn't on it, would that have made it seem like less of a disappointment. Or erm.. if you took the game for what it is as it is, and not what it is in relation to all the other Final Fantasies (if that makes sense)

Yeah MemorWiis was pretty terrible. I think the whole 'being nicer to Silent Hill' applied to 4 and Homecoming.

I thought it was that people were "meaner" (as in more critical) toward it because it was Silent Hill and the expectations were high, rather than seeing it more favorably due to the Blindness Inducing Magic that is nostalgia/hype. Then again I guess both are true..

I thought Homecoming was pretty good all things being said. Three is still my favorite though.

I wonder if the SH series is in a kind of limbo right now. I mean, they came into the video game arena in the wake of the Resident Evil popularity boom (sorta like how Street Fighter begat all those fighters). Now that RE has metamorphosed itself, I wonder if Silent Hill is going to stick w/ the old formula for much longer or try to reinvent itself too. Maybe MemorWiis was a half-assed attempt at this.

[Seil]

I am not a fan of the later Final Fantasies. I like RPGs, and the FF series is pretty much the standard, but I can't get behind anything past 6 - the SNES was good to the FF series.

I honestly don't think a title with a kind face could save any game from repeating the same levels in reverse order in any game.

There are certain things I can forgive if I like a particular game. I think we all make concessions for something if we like it. Like Metal Gear Solid - I love the series, it's in my top five, but I understand that some of the things in the game are pretty out-there and over-the-top. I can forgive SH4's shortcomings because I like it as a whole - it's pretty awesome. That being said, there are also some things that I dislike about it - escorting Eileen, Walter Sullivan showing up and generally being an powerhouse while you're doing that later bits, and taking the doll from Sullivan proving to be the biggest mistake I made in-game.

I thought it was that people were "meaner" (as in more critical) toward it because it was Silent Hill and the expectations were high, rather than seeing it more favorably due to the Blindness Inducing Magic that is nostalgia/hype. Then again I guess both are true..

I thought Homecoming was pretty good all things being said. Three is still my favorite though.

I wonder if the SH series is in a kind of limbo right now. I mean, they came into the video game arena in the wake of the Resident Evil popularity boom (sorta like how Street Fighter begat all those fighters). Now that RE has metamorphosed itself, I wonder if Silent Hill is going to stick w/ the old formula for much longer or try to reinvent itself too. Maybe MemorWiis was a half-assed attempt at this.

I think you're probably right. I liked two the best, and that set the bar really high for me. I played two after three, so I just got really into it, and was disappointed with that later games. I will concede that Homecomings, Origins and Shattered Memories probably have great moments, (I know Origins and Homecoming do, some of them are my favorites from any SH game) but I just dislike the overall product.

I do think that the series has already changed a bit - CLIMAX adding their own flavor to it, with stuff like a bigger emphasis on combat, but I'm curious as to what they do with the series via Wii. Memories sounds pretty terrible, both as a re-imagining of the first SH game, and by itself, though it does look like they implemented some neat features. The whole camera phone thing does look pretty cool, but I've never played it so I wouldn't know. If they could do a new game in the same style as SH2 or SH3, with the new features implemented, I think they could have something great on their hands.

[Odjn]

SH1's gameplay reallllllllllllllllllllllly sucked. I played it again recently and it was clunky as hell.

Gameplay rocked, though.

[Seil]

SH1's gameplay reallllllllllllllllllllllly sucked.
Gameplay rocked, though.

Odjin... what?

[phil_]

Well I figure it would have been better if it was just a better game :p What I meant was if the FF lable wasn't on it, would that have made it seem like less of a disappointment. Or erm.. if you took the game for what it is as it is, and not what it is in relation to all the other Final Fantasies (if that makes sense)Without the notions of the significance of giant floating crystals, what magic is and what it can do, and the class and character archetypes that come attached to Final Fantasy, Crystal Bearers' plot would be indecipherable. No, wait, not indecipherable... more inexplicable. Either way, FF:CC:CB needs that FF.

Also, I'm glad that I listened to you guys and didn't get Silent Hill. That money would be better spent on Fragile. Spooky times, but with the animu BS that I crave.

[MSperoni]

So if CB was the first FF type game a person ever played ever and had no prior knowledge or familiarity with any of the character archetypes, floating crystals, magic systems, monster types, etc. In other words, it being "Final Fantasy" was completely irrelevant and the person was just playing it as a game w/ no past experience... It would REALLY suck then, huh?

I guess it goes to show you that Franchise Nostalgia can work for you AND against you..

[PyrosNine]

Silent Hill Shattered Memories is okay in my book just because it has a TRUE UFO ending, and thus it is the most canon ever, if you'll notice my avatar.

Spoilers: UFO ending. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om2SQCWQhAU)

Silent Hill for the Wii get's flak because it's not a survival horror game at any rate, and is more like an advanced personality test. The "reimagining" of Silent Hill one is to throw you off base with your expectations and free your mind towards the psychological and philosophical questions asked of you. Also we get to see major characters from previous games in a sexy Oedipus/Electra complex. Now if we could only replace Alessa's mom in SH1's cutscenes with the one from the SM for much sexy hilariousness.

Silent Hill 4 is okay, but I feel it's almost a "spin off" story, and Silent Hill 5 should have been about Cheryl's kid, since Cheryl should be old enough to have a bitchy kid by now.

[Mirai Gen]

SH1's gameplay reallllllllllllllllllllllly sucked. I played it again recently and it was clunky as hell.

Gameplay rocked, though.

I think you mean "Story," on that last part.

[Kim]

Silent Hill for the Wii get's flak because it's not a survival horror game at any rate, and is more like an advanced personality test.

I give it flak for me having no influence whatsoever on the appearance of the monsters, and my decisions along the story path actually being utterly meaningless, because, you know, that's what they talk up. Oh, and the dealing with enemies part being worse than in any Silent Hill before it. Also, for the puzzles being completely gutted in favor of "Watch as Strong Man Harry Mason pries nails out of a window with his BARE HANDS." and waggletastic key finding. Also also for the story being worse than that of the original games. Furthermore for it claiming to be a retread of the first game when it could just as easily be completely seperate from the other games and make about as much, if not more, sense. Or for about a billion other problems I could come up with if I wanted to be SUPER-douchey.

[stabbity death]

I love Silent Hill 4: The Room's story and hated the gameplay. All in all, I consider it a fair entry.

Fun fact: It actually was intended to be a Silent Hill game right from the start (http://archive.videogamesdaily.com/features/konami_interview_sep04.asp).