Late to the party: Persona 4

[bluestarultor]

Let me just say that the game is good. It definitely kept me playing, and I'm especially liking the weather forecasting thing.

That said, first impressions of the characters are... I dunno. The close-ups aren't as expressive as Persona 3's, for one, and they seem sorely lacking in certain emotions, so the characters seem rather flat. The voice acting is also kind of meh, which is a shock, because there's some good talent on this thing. Further in, they've either actually improved or I've just gotten used to them, but I can't say anything's really helped me like the characters off the bat. They're actually pretty boring, but I'm hoping they improve further, because at this rate, there will be a good cast soon. It just seems harder to get into it with the party in this one.

Combat is as good as ever, but there's a gripe with that one, too. What the FUCK is with having to figure out enemy weaknesses on my own!? P3 had someone take a minute to conveniently analyze it and tell me and the party what made the beasties fall down, but in the one, all they say is what I already know. That means I might have to face an enemy multiple times to know what actually works on it. They also seem to have removed physical damage types from the equation, but I can't really comment on whether that's actually a good thing, given that the MC is locked into one weapon type. It's not necessarily a step back, but it does seem odd.

Finally, the shuffle. OH, the shuffle. The cards don't stay still this time around. So not only do you have to follow the one you want, you also have to press X to grab it when it's closest to you, and if you miss, well, not only do you miss out on a bonus, but there's also a chance you'll grab a penalty card that tosses out all the experience and items you just earned. I just shut the game off for a bit over just this situation. My first random battle and not only did I whiff a Pixie, but I pulled a penalty card. This is NOT fair.

Anyone else still care about this game?

[Kim]

That said, first impressions of the characters are... I dunno.

Kanji is the best character in the game. Nanako and Dojima will really start to grow on you once you start their social links, especially Dojima. My only real complaint against Nanako is they can't seem to decide her age. Chie is pretty great. The other characters are mostly "Your Mileage May Vary" kinda deals. You'll probably find characters and social links you really like, but won't really care about the others as much. <3 Adachi

Combat is as good as ever, but there's a gripe with that one, too. What the FUCK is with having to figure out enemy weaknesses on my own!? P3 had someone take a minute to conveniently analyze it and tell me and the party what made the beasties fall down, but in the one, all they say is what I already know. That means I might have to face an enemy multiple times to know what actually works on it.

I like this. Means you have to be more careful until you figure the enemies out. Can't use a superpowered fuck you physical attack right from the getgo because it might reflect and kill you. Still nicer than Nocturne. Analyze is a skill in Nocturne which means it takes a space, takes one of your MC's turns to use, and doesn't carry over from battle to battle, so you just have to remember stuff. Nocturne was ballin' hard. :cool:

It's especially nice since the game is far more forgiving with the whole weakness extra turn thing than Persona 3 was, and Persona 3 was leagues nicer than Nocturne. I find it balances out how much nicer the game is being to you. Plus you can control your teammates so yeah.

They also seem to have removed physical damage types from the equation, but I can't really comment on whether that's actually a good thing, given that the MC is locked into one weapon type. It's not necessarily a step back, but it does seem odd.

I think it balances things out, since physical attacks are the only ones that can crit. Besides, anything not a sword in P3 was pretty useless for starting random encounters, so I'm not really missing the other weapons.

This is NOT fair.

Be less terrible at it. :P

[bluestarultor]

In all fairness, I'm going to be turning it back on in a minute and the cards all have the decency to follow their own orbit. It looks kind of cool, too. It certainly drew a WTF from me when six cards popped up and scattered after the P3 system. I just am thinking of all those poor, unfortunate souls who don't have a crazy good reaction time like myself when I'm fully awake (10PM over here ATM), because if I whiffed a card, albeit on my first try and not at optimum, I'm sure there are many people who find such a system frustrating.

[Kim]

I remember Persona 3 having some damn unfollowable system near the end where the cards would leave the screen and come back down and the order in which they did those things determined which was which or something. I can't remember it all to clearly, but I feel like that one's more bullshit than this one.

[bluestarultor]

I remember Persona 3 having some damn unfollowable system near the end where the cards would leave the screen and come back down and the order in which they did those things determined which was which or something. I can't remember it all to clearly, but I feel like that one's more bullshit than this one.

I actually figured that out quite easily. They came down in numerical arrangement of the order they went up.

[Drownball-Champ]

It took me 2 or 3 tries to see what was going on with the cards going up and coming back.


They also seem to have removed physical damage types from the equation, but I can't really comment on whether that's actually a good thing, given that the MC is locked into one weapon type. It's not necessarily a step back, but it does seem odd.


I liked that they took it out. That along with the inability to control my team was my least favorite part of P3. Although they still could've allowed you to choose any weapon.


That said, first impressions of the characters are... I dunno. The close-ups aren't as expressive as Persona 3's, for one, and they seem sorely lacking in certain emotions, so the characters seem rather flat. The voice acting is also kind of meh, which is a shock, because there's some good talent on this thing. Further in, they've either actually improved or I've just gotten used to them, but I can't say anything's really helped me like the characters off the bat. They're actually pretty boring, but I'm hoping they improve further, because at this rate, there will be a good cast soon. It just seems harder to get into it with the party in this one.

I prefer the story in P3, but I liked the cast a lot more in this one. The only 2 people I liked in 3 were Junpei and the leader of Strega, can never remember his name, Takaya maybe... Or something like that. I don't think this one had a single character I didn't like, except maybe Nanako. As for the voice acting both were good but this one has JYB, just having him in it fixes any other VA problems.

I've been meaning to play through it again , but haven't been able to bring myself to do it yet. Still need to go through 3 again. Also don't forget, Chie's Galactic Punt is a lifesaver. Works on any enemy except for the last boss of each area if i remember correctly.

[Kim]

Yeah, P3 has the better story for sure, but P4 has some great story moments.

Fun fact: Takaya from P3 and the news reporter you hear on TV in P4 both have the same voice actor. I like to imagine they're the same character.

[Solid Snake]

The voice acting is also kind of meh, which is a shock, because there's some good talent on this thing.

...Really?
I mean if there's one thing I absolutely positively adored about Persona 4, it was about 90% of the voice acting. Everyone was top-notch, minus maybe Rise (her shadow's voice was excruciating, and her regular ol' voice wasn't horrible or anything, it just was annoying insofar as it involved the character saying the same damn lines during every battle.)

And a few of the supporting NPCs (those you can befriend who do not join your party) are pretty terrible, but they don't have very many voiced lines.

I love Persona 4 and I love it a bit more than I loved Persona 3, though I will say that when I started Persona 4 I was still coming off a Persona 3 induced high and I subsequently had some high expectations coming in that weren't immediately met. Because Persona 3 leaves you on such an awesome note -- and since you've spent something like 80+ hours with those characters -- it's difficult to adapt to Persona 4's characters insofar as they can't by definition appear as developed and nuanced as P3's when you're just beginning. You've had a long time to grow to like P3's cast, so you'll need to give P4's an equal investment.

Also, I will say that P4's plot initially feels somewhat underwhelming compared to P3. You're going from (MAJOR Persona 3 Spoilers) sacrificing yourself to destroy an otherworldly evil born from human angst and apathy that threatens to destroy an entire world, killing everyone you care about to solving what appears to be a serial murder case with victims kidnapped into televisions.

P4 just doesn't quite match the enormity of scope or seriousness of P3 (and when it eventually tries to, it falls somewhat flat by comparison.) P4 is endearing for entirely different and somewhat more lighthearted reasons, involving characters who are much more realistic and (in my opinion) ultimately more multifaceted and likable. Both games succeed in terms of their narratives for very different reasons, with P3 sacrificing character depth and intimacy in order to concoct a more epic and emotional plot, and P4 taking the opposite route and sacrificing plot intensity in order to let the cast shine through genuine moments that expose them as something less than "heroes" and more like "regular, albeit extraordinarily lovable, teenage kids."

[bluestarultor]

Honestly, most of my problem with the voice came from Chie, who also happens to be my least favorite character so far. Man is she ever a bitch in the beginning. She seems to be getting better on both fronts at this point.

Also, holy fucking shit, when they say to train around for ages, they bloody well mean it. Difficulty curve goes up fast. My brother has essentially given up on the game because it kicked his ass for trying to power through like he was used to doing n P3. I told him, the game told him, he blew us both off, now he's yammering on about how he hates it because it slapped him like a bitch.

More time for me, I guess. :D

[EVILNess]

I found 4 much easier than 3, mainly cause of the ability to control your party members and them taking fatal blows for you.

Also, Chie is awesome and nobody can beat her Galactic Punt. No one.

Seriously though, I had no trouble with the game. The bosses were a challenge, but I thnk the only one that ever killed me was Yukiko's Shadow. As for me, by the time I got Kanji I was powering through the dungeons in a single day boss and all. Hell even before that I was powering through them in a single day, getting to the top, then coming back the next day and killing the boss.

[Regulus Tera]

I just saved Yukiko. <3

Yeah this game is the game FFXIII should have been.

[Solid Snake]

Honestly, most of my problem with the voice came from Chie, who also happens to be my least favorite character so far. Man is she ever a bitch in the beginning. She seems to be getting better on both fronts at this point.


...Hah! That's interesting.
Chie is one of my favorite P4 characters. Probably second behind Kanji.

On the other hand, I can't say I'm a huge fan of Yukiko.

...But really, the entire cast is great. With P4, it's largely a difference between a character I absolutely adore and a character I merely really like.

[01d55]

Hey so remember when Yosuke signed up all of the girls in the party for that beauty pageant? And then when they signed him up for the cross-dressing pageant he acted like that was a war crime? While also saying all the shit he says to Kanji?
"regular, albeit extraordinarily lovable, teenage kids and also a douche."
FTFY.
Also: this (http://www.peachifruit.com/hiimdaisy/p4comic13.jpg).

Chie seems unreasonably violent at first but then you find out that Yosuke totally deserves it and Chie is a goddamn hero.

[PCD]

I recently saved Rise; I have to rely on when my friend is available for me to use her PS2, but I enjoy the game a lot as I work on it.

Yukiko... kind of creeps me out. I'm not sure why, but something about her voice clips in battle make me unsure about her. I like Chie more but have been convinced by a friend I shouldn't use her in battle. I'm thinking I need to look at the individual stats for the characters and pick it out myself. Really, as a whole, I don't like any of the choices for dating, later on. All of the girls are a little too bland to want to go out with--I find the guys more interesting, and I'm pretty sure I'm not just saying that because I'm a girl.

I've never played P3, but considering I'm a casual gamer starting here seems like a good fit for me. I didn't have any trouble at all with the Card Shuffle section, and I think a lot of the voice acting is really pretty good. If I hadn't been ruined for the big bad is, I never would see it coming.

[Solid Snake]

There was a Hiimdaisy Persona 4 update that I haven't read yet?

...Damn.

Also: Seriously by the endgame Chie is your single most powerful character in combat: once she's able to charge up God's Hand she's a one-woman battling machine. I can't think of a single other character, aside from a designated healer like Yukiko, who's remotely near as useful.

EDIT: Yosuke...with the pipe and the Sherlock Holmes hat...
Oh good God...
Can't...stop...laughing...

EDIT 2: "What is actually happening." "What Yosuke is seeing."
...Oh Good Lord...
...I can't take it anymore...
I literally fell out of my chair...

EDIT 3: Teddie's Kids Corner, "Fsteak," hahahahahahahahaha this is perfect.

[Kim]

C'mon guys. We all know Mysterious Fox is the best character in the game.

But no seriously Yosuke is awful. Hate hate hate hate him. Except for the ending to his social link. That was pretty rad.

[EVILNess]

My party was Yosuke, Chie, and Yukiko the pretty much entire game.

Yosuke learns Brave Blade, the most powerful Physical attack in the game, single target healing spells, and his magic isn't too shabby either.

Chie is a Physical powerhouse, and Yukiko learns mad heals with some fire mixed in.

[Solid Snake]

My party was Yosuke, Chie, and Yukiko the pretty much entire game.

Yosuke learns Brave Blade, the most powerful Physical attack in the game, single target healing spells, and his magic isn't too shabby either.

Chie is a Physical powerhouse, and Yukiko learns mad heals with some fire mixed in.

Chie, Naoto and Kanji's where it's at.

So long as you kept Naoto's SP up (helps to go back and visit Fox once in a while, or just collect some colas) his magic lets you wipe out entire groups of enemies in one fell swoop. His Mind Charge + Medigoloan-style attacks are considerably more powerful than standard magic attacks of any element.

Chie's a physical powerhouse. Her ice spells can help slay those with weaknesses but it's really with Power Charge + God Hand.

I occasionally altered Kanji with Yukiko (for extra healing), but Kanji was my top preference. I'd let my main character heal and give Kanji the chance to wreak havoc.

The three are particularly awesome against bosses. Naoto's Mind Charge + Medi-spells are guaranteed to inflict massive damage. Equip him with anything that helps to recover SP, or just give him the extra juice when required, and he'll keep the punishment flowing. Same with Chie and Power Charge + God Hand, which is the single most (non-MC) punishing attack in the game. I've seen it do thousands upon thousands of HP damage. Kanji's great with his multi-hit attacks, and I think he gets the attack+-for-everyone boost too, though I'll concede if not for a personal distaste for Yukiko combined with a personal adoration for Kanji, I'd probably sub in Yukiko there and let my MC do more damage.

But most importantly, they're the three best characters in the game. And that's all we really should care about, anyway. Persona 4 isn't all that difficult regardless of the cast you bring along, so just bring along your favorites.
...Aside from Teddie. I like Teddie (a lot more than Yukiko, at least) but I virtually never used him because of SQUEAK SQUEAK SQUEAK

And yes I know Naoto's true identity and all but NonCon asked me to keep things secretive.

[Corel]

Yeah, I found Yukiko's character to be quite a bit weaker than some of the others.

Maybe it's because compared to some of the other character she just seems a bit plain dull and typical female interest you find in a variety of other games. Well until you get her drunk, and she does have her moments like all of the characters do.

Could be the social links too, comparing hers to Chie's where you go around beating up bullies it's a bit underwhelming.


But no seriously Yosuke is awful. Hate hate hate hate him. Except for the ending to his social link. That was pretty rad.

Yeah, Youske just kinda strikes me as a homophobic douchebag half the time. He tends to flip from being quite an alright dude to just blatant douche at a moment's notice; usually directed at either Kanji or Teddie.

Still saying the above I do think they keep the party dynamic interesting, someone has got to be the fall guy!

Edit: Someone said they did not like Nanako. You have no heart!

Edit Edit: Have to add the note that I found the music to be excellent. I especially liked the Boss theme and a J-Pop song that I can stand for the battle music, fits very nicely with the world.

[Kim]

My only complaint with the music is I think dungeons each need their own battle music to keep one song from driving you mad.

Someone said they did not like Nanako. You have no heart!

EVERY DAY'S GREAT AT YOUR JUNES

No, but seriously, Nanako's great.

[Corel]

EVERY DAY'S GREAT AT YOUR JU-


http://forum.nuklearpower.com/picture.php?albumid=61&pictureid=295

It's impossible to read that without her singing it in your head. It's like the Professor Farnsworth of Persona.

[Solid Snake]

RE: Yosuke, I always wondered if there was a missing Japanese cultural element insofar as his antics and prejudices might somehow be more tolerable (or less intolerable?) over there.

Personally, I was occasionally offended with him, but never outright disgusted with him. A lot of it had to do with his age. When I was in High School, I said and did pretty damn stupid things, too. All of the characters have hidden prejudices, flaws and foibles, and Yosuke's problem to me always seemed to be that he simply had loose lips. In regards to Kanji and homosexuality, I always perceived Yosuke as simply being brave or foolish enough to vocally advocate the same level of discomfort several others were feeling on the subject. It wasn't like Yukiko or Chie were terribly inviting of Kanji's sexuality, they just were polite enough to keep their mouths shut. Naoto has a pretty poorly concealed (and somewhat unfounded) superiority complex that causes her to eschew relationships with most her peers. And Naoto actually treats Kanji pretty terribly too, a fact that seems to be ignored in large part because Naoto seems distant from everyone. But if the MC develops a friendship with Naoto to the extent she breaks out of her shell, it seems especially cruel for her to continue treating Kanji as she does.

Actually, Kanji kind of gets the short straw all around, (which makes him an even more impressive character in my book, because he becomes mature enough to shrug much of it off by the endgame.)

But yeah, actually if you analyze the other Persona 4 high schoolers, none of them with the exception of the MC come out smelling like roses. (And the MC only smells like roses if you invest ideal emotional traits into the otherwise lifeless avatar with your decisions.) Despite all of Yosuke's immature rancor, it was still utterly inappropriate at best and malicious at worst for Chie to buy Teddie's clothes on Yosuke's dime without asking for permission...his anger in that scene seemed justified. Rise's treatment of the MC on a pedestal of awe and admiration slightly obscures the fact that she's pretty antisocial around most others. Teddie had moments of perversion that, particularly given his non-human status, seemed often creepier than most anything Yosuke said or did. Yukiko had a few moments where she just snapped and sounded more aggressive and downright unlikable than anyone else in the game; at least Yosuke's general demeanor allowed you to take half his comments as jokes-gone-wrong, but by contrast Yukiko at times just sounded choked with unhealthy passive-aggressive rage. I'd almost rather witness Yosuke's brutal honesty than Yukiko's volcanic approach...

Anyway, point being, everyone was just about equally imperfect. Yosuke tends to get more crap because his personality flaw is one that actually exposes his immature thoughts to the public on a frequent basis, whereas the immature thoughts of others remain slightly better concealed (though they're often hinted at.) There's also a bit of a gender gap: because Atlus was writing for a male MC and wanted to keep things ambiguous with the women (so you could pursue any of them as love interests) the male characters as a whole are slightly better developed (you at least have a pretty decent idea as to who they find attractive, and that colors their motivations).

By contrast, the girls remain mysterious from the MC's perspective. Persona 4 also largely avoided the kinds of catfights for the MC's attention (and angry breakups) that should have been more prominent among a group of women the MC could seduce. The net effect is that the women actually seem a bit too perfect for my tastes. I'd rather they appear more 'flawed' like Yosuke, if that meant they actually felt lapses in self-confidence regarding their relationship status with the MC or they occasionally snapped when it became obvious the MC was playin' the field.

[Drownball-Champ]

Yeah I've been told I'm heartless before.

The music was great, but I agree they should've gone with a new battle theme for each different dungeon. The battle theme doesn't fit the situations and areas the same way the theme on P3 did, but that was partly because it was always the same area or event happening.

[PCD]

I agree on the terms of the battle music. On top of it always being the same, it just didn't feel like a good battle theme to me; it wasn't exactly pumped up, more just a sort of Pop-y tune that didn't totally fit the situation imho.

My team is currently composed of Yosuke-Yukiko-Kanji, more out of what my friend told me I should do than any actual experimentation myself >> At this point, Chie's inevitably behind by a few levels, which is the main doubt I have for bringing her back in.

The characters all definitely have their flaws in general. They're teenagers, it makes sense for them to be a bit immature, but yes, I agree with Solid; Yukiko seemed eerily passive-aggressive to me in a lot of ways. Chie's sort of immature and selfish, Yosuke doesn't know how to think before he speaks, Rise got annoying fast, and Teddie's just sort of creepy. Kanji is by far the best in that he's already shown growth at this stage of the game.

Dojima, even if he's pretty cool when you start hanging out with him, is on my list of "worst dads ever." He just has no idea how to take care of Nanako, and it's painful to watch how sad it makes her.

[Kim]

"Can I have coffee, too?"
"Sure! Cream and sugar, right?"
"Yeah!"

DOJIMA IS THE WORST DAD

[Solid Snake]

Hiimdaisy's hysterical jokes aside, I thought Dojima was a kickass dad, albeit one dealing with serious issues related to the premature death of his wife. Dojima just doesn't have a personality type conducive to raising children. But he tries, often despite his natural ineptitude (and despite the fact that an unknown serial killer is making his job miserable.) And I had a deep appreciation for his efforts.

He felt like one of the most real, flesh-and-blood characters to me. Hiimdaisy's having fun playing up Dojima's bouts with ineptitude, but honestly, I think her Dojima is the least effectual of her portrayals, in large part because the other characters are fairly honest portrayals that harp on the character's actual flaws, whereas Dojima's is more like a (hysterical, yes, but still) total negative distortion.
(By contrast, her portrayal of Yosuke is amazing in large part because it's simultaneously exaggerated and yet completely faithful to the character's actual in-game personality.)

[Corel]

He felt like one of the most real, flesh-and-blood characters to me. Hiimdaisy's having fun playing up Dojima's bouts with ineptitude, but honestly, I think her Dojima is the least effectual of her portrayals, in large part because the other characters are fairly honest portrayals that harp on the character's actual flaws, whereas Dojima's is more like a (hysterical, yes, but still) total negative distortion.


I would take a guess she was influenced how Jeff and Vinnie from the Endurance Run portrayed Dojima in their voice overs and comments, as I believe she also watched it.

I also was a big fan of Adachi.

[01d55]

RE: Yosuke, I always wondered if there was a missing Japanese cultural element insofar as his antics and prejudices might somehow be more tolerable (or less intolerable?) over there.
Best as I can tell the missing element is that Japanese culture shares his prejudices. The feel I get off scenes with Yosuke is that the player is supposed to be a dude who's basically like Yosuke, with maybe a little more tact. (This feel is especially strong when you're first entering void quest.) If it wasn't for that sense I probably wouldn't be so mad.

[EVILNess]

At this point, Chie's inevitably behind by a few levels, which is the main doubt I have for bringing her back in.


Just take her into whatever dungeon is current with you and she will catch up very fast.

[Vauron]

More to the point, the amount of exp given is increased for the character if they are at a lower level than the enemy. If Chie is behind, she should quickly catch up so long as she is conscious enough to get exp at the end of the fight.

[Kim]

Best as I can tell the missing element is that Japanese culture shares his prejudices. The feel I get off scenes with Yosuke is that the player is supposed to be a dude who's basically like Yosuke, with maybe a little more tact. (This feel is especially strong when you're first entering void quest.) If it wasn't for that sense I probably wouldn't be so mad.

I never really go that impression, but the Void Quest cheesy line thing was pretty terrible.

[EVILNess]

One of the major flaws of the game is that character growth from the social links doesn't translate over to the main story. The characters, Yosuke mainly, are so much more likable in their Social Links.

If they could somehow work that in the games would be 42k solid gold.

[Solid Snake]

One of the major flaws of the game is that character growth from the social links doesn't translate over to the main story. The characters, Yosuke mainly, are so much more likable in their Social Links.

If they could somehow work that in the games would be 42k solid gold.

Yeah. It's basically weird to hear Kanji, Yosuke, Yukiko, Naoto, etc. all compliment the main character for totally changing their lives and their perspectives on everything and then when a major plot event happens they're back to being douches.

I'd enjoy a future Persona that not only incorporated the ability to translate social link maturity into the same story but also enabled the MC's decisions in social links to have subtle effects on the development of relationships among the other characters. The MC bein' a playa is one thing, but it'd be great to have the MC in one playthrough encouraging Yosuke to date Chie and in another playthrough, have Yosuke encouraged to date Yukiko while dating Chie yourself. ...And then, actually witness the differences in subsequent scenes that transpire.

...Of course, that can apply to more than just romances, but you get the basic gist.

[Kim]

One of the major flaws of the game is that character growth from the social links doesn't translate over to the main story. The characters, Yosuke mainly, are so much more likable in their Social Links.

If they could somehow work that in the games would be 42k solid gold.

This is one problem I have with the games. One thing that I'd find a nice addition is being able to customize my character's appearance. I want that so bad.

[EVILNess]

So I lent a friend of mine my copy of the game, and he was bitching about the ending! Apparently he got the bad ending.

Am I the only one who connected the dots and got the true ending without a guide? Is it really that big a deal?

[Kim]

If you mean connecting the dots to know that the bad ending or good ending aren't the true ending, that's fairly obvious. If you mean getting it right the first time, then no, it isn't quite that obvious. Also, the final day nonsense of figuring out everything to do is kinda lame.

[bluestarultor]

So I just have to say this:

http://i44.tinypic.com/23t45yt.png

This really happened in the game and Phantom and I were both laughing uncontrollably for several literal minutes. Man, if you're playing this, read the comics first. Sure, you get spoilers, but you laugh twice when the actual event rolls around. :D

[Solid Snake]

So I lent a friend of mine my copy of the game, and he was bitching about the ending! Apparently he got the bad ending.

Am I the only one who connected the dots and got the true ending without a guide? Is it really that big a deal?

I could see someone making the choices necessary to get the Good ending without a guide, but the True ending is a lot trickier unless you happen to know there's more content. You have to actually deny leaving town a couple times, which seems rather counterintuitive if you didn't happen to know the game would end. Otherwise it just seems something like a "Are you sure you want the game proceed? Are you really done talking with everyone?" prompt.

[01d55]

I would take a guess she was influenced how Jeff and Vinnie from the Endurance Run portrayed Dojima in their voice overs and comments, as I believe she also watched it.

I also was a big fan of Adachi.

Man watching the endurance run is painful sometimes - specifically those times when they are actually playing instead of going through plot.

I did not even know it was possible to sincerely be bad at a JRPG but there they are, casting bufu on things they shouldn't.

[Kim]

Yeah, they're pretty terrible at it.They get better as time goes by, but I was honestly astounded at how poorly they were doing. Then again, trying to add commentary the whole time can be kinda distracting, so that might be to blame.

[Solid Snake]

I did not even know it was possible to sincerely be bad at a JRPG but there they are, casting bufu on things they shouldn't.

...This did, however, provide one of the most hysterical moments in the entire endurance run, during their fight against Shadow Teddy.

[Corel]

I found it even more entertaining that they were pretty bad at it, really made a lot of the fights pretty tense. Especially thinking about Yukiko's and Teddie's fight.

Dungeon crawling was a bit tedious, though.

Casting bufu on Teddie's shadow and Auto Rushing the Final Boss, priceless.

[Kim]

Another complaint about Persona 4 that I'll just throw out there is that there are too many recolors. Kind of a natural result of not using the demons as your opponents, but I wished the opponents were more related to the dungeon.

[bluestarultor]

Another complaint about Persona 4 that I'll just throw out there is that there are too many recolors. Kind of a natural result of not using the demons as your opponents, but I wished the opponents were more related to the dungeon.

Well, that's pretty much par for the course, really. Same with P3.

I do, however, like the new cop enemies in Kanji's dungeon, with the donuts stuck in their mouths. XD



On Chie, her voice has gotten better, but it seems every time I'm ready to start liking her, she says something really bitchy.

[Kim]

Yeah, it was just less noticeable in Persona 3 because there was always just a look for a section, but not much more than that. Persona 4 has thematic dungeons, so the excessive amount of recolors stands out more because of that. It's not a big deal, but it's my favorite jRPG. I gotta nitpick the hell out of it. :P

[Solid Snake]

On Chie, her voice has gotten better, but it seems every time I'm ready to start liking her, she says something really bitchy.

Replace "Chie" with "Yukiko," and that's more or less exactly how I felt about Yukiko in P4.

As for Chie, I liked her from the very beginning.
Then again, as Matt Speroni knows, I tend to crush on tomboys...

For the record, my favorite fan-pairings (not remotely canon) in the game were MC and Chie, Yosuke and Yukiko, with Kanji, Rise and Naoto all remaining single. Those are not the popular couplings in Persona 4 fandom, but I think that's what attracts me all the more to the pairings. I'm such a rebel!

...But MC and Chie always worked best for me because they have good times together but the relationship is perfectly understated. It's clear they really like each other, but like typical high school students, they don't go around declaring their love or anything. Chie never stoops to Rise's lows of actively flirting with the MC out of some warped desperation for attention. Naoto's a close second option but I felt her character was introduced to the storyline too late -- and revealed as a female even later -- for a romance to feel realistic.

As for Yukiko and Yosuke, I felt they're both somewhat dark and immature (despite Yukiko's attempts to come off as an adult) which made them an ideal fit. I can understand why so many like pairing Yosuke and Chie under the sheer "opposites attract; sexual tension galore" reasoning, but that concept annoys me because I always end up feeling Chie deserves so much better. And the benefit of the Chie / MC connection is, she ultimately plans to work for Dojima, so it's a nice way to keep Dojima and Nanako in the MC's life, too.

MGS, Persona 4 and Ace Attorney are really the only three games / series where I'm remotely invested in the shipper's arguments. But the latter two were relatively recent acquisitions for me, so it always shocks me to discover I care so much...particularly since I've played dozens of RPGs before Persona 4 and not felt nearly as invested in the characters (despite fully enjoying the storylines.)

[bluestarultor]

Yeah, it was just less noticeable in Persona 3 because there was always just a look for a section, but not much more than that. Persona 4 has thematic dungeons, so the excessive amount of recolors stands out more because of that. It's not a big deal, but it's my favorite jRPG. I gotta nitpick the hell out of it. :P

Yeah, there definitely is that. I mean, in the same dungeon as the police monsters, you have tigers, in an odd choice of modifying the lions representing the Strength Arcana in P3. It's odd, because it seems they were really trying to distance this one from the Tarot theme that the series is pretty much based on. The lions made sense in P3 because they're representations of the Strength Arcana, and it was obvious because the card depicts someone prying a lion's mouth open. Tigers make significantly less sense. Also, it seems like they blurred the numerals on all the Shadows' masks this time around, where in P3, they were very loud and clear.

It just bothers me a bit, because P3 was very good about making the Arcana into enemies. I can get not wanting to recycle set pieces too much, but then why do the "paint over it and hope no one notices" thing? They MADE new models for the thing. It's not like they were really tying themselves to what came before, what with the total exclusion of Mayas so far, among other things. Anyone who's seen the lions from P3 will instantly recognize the animations and design of the tigers, but the change seems unnecessary, because tigers make little to no more sense in their chosen habitat than lions do. If they'd wanted to have a better enemy for that place, they could have taken the giant Hulk Hogan rip-offs, and it would have been just fine.

It just seems pointless modifying set pieces like that, because the series is not going to be safer from religious criticism because of it.

[EVILNess]

Oh My God! Persona 5 Screenshots!


http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/900/aprilcats.jpg

Shh! :p Keep the joke alive.

[Regulus Tera]

Guys, I just came to a sudden realisation: my time playing FFXIII could have been spent on Persona 4.

I feel dirty.

[EVILNess]

Guys, I just came to a sudden realisation: my time playing FFXIII could have been spent on Persona 4.

I feel dirty.

We told you it was awesome.

[Kim]

Man, my New Game+ I ended up being like ten ranks total from Max Social Linking the whole thing. Apparently I focused on my party member social links to much too early on. It's great to do that your first playthrough, not so much your second, I guess.

[Solid Snake]

Guys, I just came to a sudden realisation: my time playing FFXIII could have been spent on Persona 4.

I feel dirty.

Well, if you played P3: FES before playing FFXIII, really, that was just your fault.

If you haven't played P3: FES yet, I have great news. After you finish Persona 4, you can move on and play another brilliant 80 hr+ RPG that's far superior to FFXIII!

Man, my New Game+ I ended up being like ten ranks total from Max Social Linking the whole thing. Apparently I focused on my party member social links to much too early on. It's great to do that your first playthrough, not so much your second, I guess.

Exactly.

...You have more than enough to max every Social Link in Persona 4 (I did so before December) but you have to exploit the fact that you'll receive story-related boosts for certain characters, and be sure to correspondingly not max those links before you can reap the benefits. My strategy (not my own though; I read about this possibility in a FAQ) essentially involved prematurely maxing only two party members (Chie and Kanji) that I always kept in my party. (Maxing Yukiko is actually borderline worthless even if you use her frequently, as she never loses her weakness to ice, and my other mainstay character was Naoto, who I didn't get until late anyway. And Teddie's auto-maxed.)

But once I hit SLink 7 with Yukiko and Yosuke, and there starts to be a jump in the "points" required to level up your links, I simply waited until a party event would initiate that'd give them a boost, then correspond time spent with them immediately after said boosts so I'd reap the benefits. As such, Yukiko and Yosuke were two of the last characters I actually maxed, but it was irrelevant anyway since I rarely relied on them.

If you used a different party, you'd just change things up accordingly. If you rely on Yukiko and Yosuke in every fight, it makes sense to level them up immediately, but let Chie and Kanji sit on the sidelines. The party members you don't rely on should be your absolute last priority.

It also helps to have a strategy in terms of who to compliment and when. For example: you have the opportunity to start building up Chie's link fairly early, and if you do so, you'll actually reap the benefit of flirting with her at the camp scene considerably more than Yukiko (who you simply can't reach a high SLink level with at that time.) So it makes more sense to boost Chie's link then, as it will make the SLink process easier. Same principles apply later in the game. Not long after you first recruit Rise, you can choose prompts to compliment her during group events, but doing so has virtually no benefit compared to a choice that pleases Yukiko or Chie -- at that time your SLink with Rise just isn't high enough for you to reap benefits.

The hardest link by far is the Temperance one. It's easy to forget about the bus stop because it's not represented by a character icon. It requires you to leave the school to initiate it. Unlike most the other jobs, it's not accomplished at night, when you have nothing else to do. And the gaps in the Temperance link are pretty vast -- you'll need to bring a matching Persona very early and even then, past LV5, you may need multiple visits to advance the storyline. Oftentimes you don't have prompts with the mother in order to choose answers that can potentially boost the link, even during SLink level-up sequences. I countered this by making absolutely sure I accomplished Temperance early.

Finally: there's a huge, insurmountable benefit to maxing the Hermit link as quickly as possible. Namely, you can start praying during rainy days. This is invaluable as otherwise most rainy days (when Sun isn't available) are complete wastes of time. With the temple, though, you can utilize every rainy day to your advantage. Praying for party members and other hard-to-max characters can be essential to reduce the number of pleasant-weather days you waste time pursuing them.

Alternatively you can just rely on a strategy guide to tell you the answers, I suppose...but I enjoyed the feeling of accomplishment of mastering every SLink in a New Game+ myself.

[Solid Snake]

EDIT: Dammit I totally forgot about the double post rule here.

[Kim]

He's waiting on Persona 3 Portable so he can play as a girl.

[Solid Snake]

He's waiting on Persona 3 Portable so he can play as a girl.

Given my absolute adoration for all things Persona 3 it's strange to reflect on how little I'm interested in playing P3P.
Oh, I'm very interested in the plot and story changes Atlus has cooked up. I can tell you all about them. But normally a game of Persona 3's quality would easily convince me to purchase a PSP outright...hell, I purchased a DS just for the Ace Attorney series...but actually playing P3P doesn't quite hold my fancy.

I think a lot of it has to do with the content they've cut out in order to fit the game on a portable system. Also, the new interface while walking around town kind of stinks. In the end, P3P is one of those strange games that includes some new content both otherwise seems like a complete downgrade from FES. You don't get the Answer, you don't get as many voiced sequences, you don't get even PS2-level graphics, and playing a girl (and dating guys) doesn't quite appeal to me as much as it might other players. (Though I'm still far happier Atlus went that route, as opposed to arbitrarily making the female MC a lesbian.)

...Still, I look forward to an entirely new set of players experiencing the series.

[Jagos]

So... As someone who's never gotten any of the Persona games, where should I start? P3 or try from the beginning if possible?

Gotta say, how SS gushes over this title, it's starting to make me think this may be worth a look.

[Kim]

I'd recommend against playing Persona 1 or 2, at least until you like the series enough to play their older games and put up with some archaic bullshit.

Persona 3: FES is a good starting point, I'd say, but it has some problems. Basically, playing P3 first will make you appreciate P4 more, especially when P4 references P3 occasionally, but P4 is inarguably the better game, gameplay-wise. P3 has a better story than P4 as well, but P4 has better characters.

You could also give my review of it a looksee. (http://www.gamepad-dojo.com/?p=392) Of my older reviews, it's one of the few I don't read and get frustrated with myself at.

[Solid Snake]

You should start with Persona 3: FES, definitely.

P3 and P4 both have incredible first-rate storylines, but if you play P4 first you won't be able to go back and enjoy P3 as much. (You can still enjoy the story...in fact the plot in P3 is arguably better than P4's, but you won't enjoy the comparatively flawed gameplay mechanics.)

By contrast, if you start with P3 you'll love it (despite its flaws) and then you'll really love P4, which offers a superior cast of characters and fixes the mechanical issues.

[EVILNess]

So... As someone who's never gotten any of the Persona games, where should I start? P3 or try from the beginning if possible?

Gotta say, how SS gushes over this title, it's starting to make me think this may be worth a look.

None of the games directly link with one another, bar a few minor cameos in 2 from 1, and 4 from 3. So pay them in any order. Just avoid the PSX release of Persona 1.

Persona 1 and 2 are great games, but they are more like another series when compared to 3 and 4. No social links, traditional random battles, Persona fusion is more akin to earlier SMT gamesm but they are great games.


Now if you own a PSP, then by all means go buy Persona 1 it's worth the asking price and is a great little RPG. Otherwise, yeah I would start with P3 FES or maybe wait for P3P if you have a PSP.

[MuMu]

So... As someone who's never gotten any of the Persona games, where should I start? P3 or try from the beginning if possible?

Gotta say, how SS gushes over this title, it's starting to make me think this may be worth a look.

Definitely start with P3:FES and end with P4, but there's nothing stopping you from playing every other SMT game inbetween.

[Kim]

Oh, and play Nocturne! Best game Atlus has ever put out.

[Solid Snake]

Oh come on NonCon, don't misspell Persona 4 so egregiously.

[Kim]

I'm sorry. I can't hear you over Nocturne's final dungeon.

[Regulus Tera]

FUCK THE FINAL BOSS OF MAGATSU INABA

FUCK HIM

[EVILNess]

FUCK THE FINAL BOSS OF MAGATSU INABA

FUCK HIM

Oh hahaha! Yeah, it gets harder.

[Regulus Tera]

Hiimdaisy's comic surely is timeless: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mUTQKMRLYQ

In other news, I finally beat that freaking boss! And now I'm in the true ending path.

There go another fifteen hours of my life I guess.

[Vauron]

Oh hahaha! Yeah, it gets harder.

Honestly, I found the boss of the december dungeon to be mostly a test of endurance, and just really really long. Difficult? Eh, I had greater difficulty with Shadow Kanji the first time I fought him.

[Ravashak]

There was nothing in P4 that gave me the rage that the final boss in P3's Journey gave me. 13-stage fight, then in the last one at, say, 10% remaining
Night Queen (random status ailments on party, plus some damage. Great with either healbot mind crushed, or main char enraged)
Physical target-all attack (main char one-shot) or (me)diarahan on the boss.

[Kim]

I actually didn't have that happen to me in P3. Go figure :P

[bluestarultor]

Hiimdaisy's comic surely is timeless: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mUTQKMRLYQ

Holy shit, some of the voices in there are good!

Whoever does Chie actually does nearly the same voice with better quality than in the actual game!

(BTW, the poor quality of Chie's voice acting is yet another roadblock to me liking her.)

Yosuke and Nanako are also spot-on! That's just plain awesome! :D

[Kim]

I think one of my biggest complaints about P4 is what a wimp The Reaper is in this compared with P3. P3 I leveled myself to being able to kick even the final boss' ass with relative easy, and The Reaper still kicked my ass. P4 I beat The Reaper my first try, and didn't have to retry that frequently for the rematches. LAME

[bluestarultor]

I think one of my biggest complaints about P4 is what a wimp The Reaper is in this compared with P3. P3 I leveled myself to being able to kick even the final boss' ass with relative easy, and The Reaper still kicked my ass. P4 I beat The Reaper my first try, and didn't have to retry that frequently for the rematches. LAME

There's a Reaper in P4? We've never run into one, and we just rescued Naoto.

And we don't exactly breeze through the levels. They're smaller than in P3 in a lot of cases, but we pretty much always explore them fully.

[Kim]

There's a Reaper in P4? We've never run into one, and we just rescued Naoto.

And we don't exactly breeze through the levels. They're smaller than in P3 in a lot of cases, but we pretty much always explore them fully.

He doesn't show up until you're doing a New Game+. He seems to frequent random chests in Magatsu, and you get Ultimate Gear for beating him.

[Regulus Tera]

The ending to this game is so saccharine it's giving me diabetes. I like to imagine the train explodes after the cutscene ends.

So was that awesome or was that awesome?

[Kim]

Just to verify, you did do the dungeon after Magatsu, right?

[Regulus Tera]

Yup.

Final stats:

Regulus 85
Yosuke 79
Chie 79, Maxed
Yukiko 85, Maxed
Kanji 79
Teddie 79, Maxed
Rise 85, Maxed
Naoto 58, Maxed

Personas in hand:
Sraosha, 83
Beelzebub, 86
Suparna, 82
Kohryu, 81
Arahabaki, 78
Saturnus, 81
Trumpeter, 72

Compendium at 83%.

So yeah, that was a pretty cool game. Kinda sad it's over. At the same time, I'm not eager to do a second playthrough. Not this year, at least.

[Drownball-Champ]

So yeah, that was a pretty cool game. Kinda sad it's over. At the same time, I'm not eager to do a second playthrough. Not this year, at least.

Don't feel bad. I beat it back when it first came out and I still haven't done a second run through of it yet.

[Kim]

I'm in the final dungeon of my second playthrough, myself. I fucked up and wasn't able to Max Social Link everyone, though.

No Mara in your party, RT? LAME

[Drownball-Champ]

I think I had Mara in my party just to have him. The only 3 I used end game were Loki (Niflheim +Ice Amp/Boost), Surt (Ragnarok +Fire Amp/Boost), and Helel (God Hand).

[Kim]

I think I had Mara in my party just to have him.

Don't you see? Mara was inside you all along.

[Regulus Tera]

Yukiko > Rise-chan <3 = Yumi > Chie = Margaret > Naoto > Ayane > Ai (she's a bitch)

THIS IS IMPORTANT STUFF

[bluestarultor]

Yukiko > Rise-chan <3 = Yumi > Chie = Margaret > Naoto > Ayane > Ai (she's a bitch)

THIS IS IMPORTANT STUFF

You know, is there really any real reason to make romantic advances at any of the females? Like, the only benefit seems to be being able to implicitly bone them, but there are real disadvantages to it. We went on a Sunday excursion with Ai only to have Yukiko butt in and go totally ballistic and drive her off. Now, to be frank, it was Ai, so we didn't care as much as we might have, but it was still bullshit. Unless there's an actual gameplay benefit to having a full relationship, I'm going to pass on my run.

[Regulus Tera]

You know, is there really any real reason to make romantic advances at any of the females? Like, the only benefit seems to be being able to implicitly bone them, but there are real disadvantages to it. We went on a Sunday excursion with Ai only to have Yukiko butt in and go totally ballistic and drive her off. Now, to be frank, it was Ai, so we didn't care as much as we might have, but it was still bullshit. Unless there's an actual gameplay benefit to having a full relationship, I'm going to pass on my run.

What, do you like Kanji more?

[bluestarultor]

What, do you like Kanji more?

I was thinking more in terms of it being a pain in the rear that dating someone has a negative impact on your ability to advance other social links.

[Regulus Tera]

Yeah, but you get a cute little scene during Christmas. <3

Naoto wearing a girl uniform makes it worth it.

[01d55]

So I figured out what's wrong with those guys who were playing the Endurance Run.

They can't remember anything! Basically every time they move to a next episode they completely forget what they were planning to do at the end of the previous episode. Sometimes they can fake it by guessing but they totally don't remember shit.

What's funny is when I started watching it, I considered it to be a spoiler for upcoming hiimdaisy Big Long P4 Comic segments, but by the time the bit where peachi inserts Evil Adachi in an early scene came around, I was ready to consider the comic a spoiler for the endurance run. (Also I guess the fact that evil Adachi is actually surprising, unlike the reappearance of creepy kid and creepy gas station attendant, who I was pretty sure was the Real Killer before I got spoiled on Adachi had something to do with that)

[Solid Snake]

Yukiko > Rise-chan <3 = Yumi > Chie = Margaret > Naoto > Ayane > Ai (she's a bitch)

THIS IS IMPORTANT STUFF

Naw.

Chie > Naoto > Rise > Margaret > Yumi > Yukiko > Ai > Ayane.

Tomboys are awesome.
Girls that look twelve are too young.


(Scurries back to studying.)

[Kim]

Naw.

Kanji > Everyone

[EVILNess]

Naw.

Kanji > Everyone

Kanji is cool and all, but your opinions are biased.

[Kim]

Nope! If it was based on smexiness it'd totally be Yosuke or Teddie. They're far cuter.

Kanji's probably just the best Persona character since Eikichi.

[bluestarultor]

Nope! If it was based on smexiness it'd totally be Yosuke or Teddie. They're far cuter.

Kanji's probably just the best Persona character since Eikichi.

Or at least the funniest.

"YA WANNA LEARN HOW TO MAKE DOLLS!? I'LL SHOW YA HOW TA MAKE DOLLS, YA PUNKS!"

"MAN, YOU BETTER SHUT UP, OR I'LL, uh, REDECORATE YOUR STORE SO PRETTY YOU WON'T EVEN RECOGNIZE IT!"

Man, just so incongruous. XD

[Kim]

Or at least the funniest.

"YA WANNA LEARN HOW TO MAKE DOLLS!? I'LL SHOW YA HOW TA MAKE DOLLS, YA PUNKS!"

"MAN, YOU BETTER SHUT UP, OR I'LL, uh, REDECORATE YOUR STORE SO PRETTY YOU WON'T EVEN RECOGNIZE IT!"

Man, just so incongruous. XD

"I'M GONNA RENOVATE YOUR ASS!"

[Regulus Tera]

Tomboy are overrated.


Hey guys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbmOdo9qW4A yaaaaaaay persona time!

[MuMu]

Nope! If it was based on smexiness it'd totally be Yosuke or Teddie. They're far cuter.

Kanji's probably just the best Persona character since Eikichi.

Cutest in the party, you mean. Kou (http://yfrog.com/9h0909162325dsc01158cropj) is clearly the cutest boy in the whole game.

I joined the Basketball club just because of that!

[01d55]

Naw.

Chie > Naoto > Rise > Margaret > Yumi > Yukiko > Ai > Ayane.

Tomboys are awesome.
Girls that look twelve are too young.


(Scurries back to studying.)

Chie > Naoto > a buncha girly anime girls who all blur together in their generic anime girl girlishness.

[Kim]

Elizabeth is so much better than Margaret ever was. I kinda hope the new guy is cool, in P3P, cuz he is pretty cute. If he has an Elizabeth-style personality I'll be totally sold on him.

[Carade]

http://kotaku.com/5547944/persona-moved-from-ps3-to-psp

OH DEAR GOD WHY.

[Kim]

http://kotaku.com/5547944/persona-moved-from-ps3-to-psp

OH DEAR GOD WHY.

That is as rumortastic as rumors get. Like, that's less legitimate than an obviously photoshopped magazine scan. There are about fifty different explanations for it, and none of them involve Persona 5. This is Kotaku being Kotaku. You should know better.

[EVILNess]

Persona PSP hasn't been released there yet, it is the remake of the original.

[greed]

Persona PSP hasn't been released there yet, it is the remake of the original.

No... I bought Persona 1 PSP back in October. Totally could be Persona 3 Portable though. Which if true, means I'll be buying Persona 3, a THIRD time(well I'll be doing that even if it only gets a US release anyway, but it's easier if they release it here). Got to try out that girl path and save Shinjiro.

The PS3 rating could be for a PSN release.

[bluestarultor]

Yeah, Persona 5 isn't on the table quite yet. Kotaku are idiots for suggesting that. Especially for Australia. :P

[Revising Ocelot]

It's probably not allowed to post in a topic which went inactive in May, but considering my proposed subject title would have been the same as this topic, it's best to not be redundant.

Anyway, just milling about town a few days ago and I happened to spot a new sealed copy being sold for £10. Don't have any next-gen consoles, so I figured 'why not' and brought it. Obviously that was one of my better decisions of the year.

The prologue section before you get to move around the city properly dragged on too long, and the large spike in difficulty in the higher floors of the TV castle and ESPECIALLY Shadow Yukiko really threw me off. I spent all last night grinding my party and fusing various Personas, and still had to resort to constant Guarding with Chie once the Burn to Ashes spam started. It's all great fun, though.

I don't think Yosuke ever managed to get to a toilet...

[Kim]

I really ought to get around to finishing my New Game +...