Alpha Protocol

[greed]

I've been thinking of getting this some time after exams but I'm not sure. It's Obsidian so I'm sure the writings great, but the gameplay worries me. Is combat any fun? Is it a chore? Is it Mass Effect lite? Or more like a traditional shooter? Or is it more RPGish than ME?

On the story, has it got good humour or is it unrelentingly serious? Any really good characters?

Basically if anyone has picked it up already, is this game worth buying?

Oh and discuss the game too, bit surprised there isn't a thread for it already.

[Azisien]

The combat is ok. It's Mass Effect, roughly. There's not as much polish.

There's more customization than ME2, about as much as ME1. (Psst, this is a good thing).

Conversation system is very very good, voice acting is decent to awful.

I am noticing some annoyances with the controls (ex: rolling from cover makes you stand up, so all enemies in a 200 foot radius all immediately spot you with their AK-47s).


EDIT: Note, I played it on 360. Can't comment on PS3 or PC controls/niceness.

[Magic_Marker]

From what I gather from Azisien's thoughts Alpha Protocol keeps the tradition Obsidian has always had. Release an 'almost awesome' game.

-With KOTOR2 it was the cut content and buggy launch

- With NWN2 it was the high system reqs. for a game that shouldn't have needed those types of reqs for it's day. Also the interface needed work.

As a stone, obsidian is smooth, polished. But as a company it is rugged, rough, and incomplete. Like a coal that needed to be under pressure a little bit longer to become a diamond. I'll probably end up renting or playing it to get a full picture but that's been my idea of the company to date.

[Azisien]

I have a burning hatred for Obsidian that may come out in a review I do some day, but for now, essentially yes, from what I played (only 3 hours mind you), it felt like an Obsidian game.

So it's a good Bioware-like title. I do feel tempted to grab it on the PC to give it a full and fair shot.

[DFM]

From what I understand the combat is downright terrible and the animation/controls are janky as hell but everything else is great.

Not that there's a lot of everything else left after that but I'm getting the game in a day or two SO I GUESS WE'LL SEE THEN.

[Jagos]

Damn... And I'm looking to pick this one up. I may stay away until it's patched up.

[Magic_Marker]

I have a burning hatred for Obsidian that may come out in a review I do some day, but for now, essentially yes, from what I played (only 3 hours mind you), it felt like an Obsidian game.

So it's a good Bioware-like title. I do feel tempted to grab it on the PC to give it a full and fair shot.

I sware it's like a bunch of old Bioware employees were like "Fuck it! Release it early and blame it on the publisher!"

Which works once and they used it on KOTOR2. They claimed they were forced to cut content because of Big Bad Lucasarts. The fact that KOTOR1 dealt with the same Lucasarts was lost on them. Same excuse was used with Atari during NWN2. But, again Bioware dealt with the exact same Atari and put out a better product for it's time.

Mother fuck, comparing the two companies is like comparing and their use of the same IP is like comparing Sonic the Hedgehog (1991) and Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)

There, I've saved you the trouble Azisien.

[greed]

I sware it's like a bunch of old Bioware employees were like "Fuck it! Release it early and blame it on the publisher!"

Which works once and they used it on KOTOR2. They claimed they were forced to cut content because of Big Bad Lucasarts. The fact that KOTOR1 dealt with the same Lucasarts was lost on them. Same excuse was used with Atari during NWN2. But, again Bioware dealt with the exact same Atari and put out a better product for it's time.

Mother fuck, comparing the two companies is like comparing and their use of the same IP is like comparing Sonic the Hedgehog (1991) and Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)

There, I've saved you the trouble Azisien.

In their defence LucasArts gave Bioware a good two years for KotoR 1. KotoR2 got like 10 months to be out for Christmas. Then LucasArts apparently prevented them from releasing a content restoral patch for some reason.

Also KotoR was better in that it was less buggy and better paced due to having most of it's content. But KotoR2 blew it out of the freaking water writing wise right up til the endgame when the rush they were put under fucked things up a bit. Still Ayn Rand Kreia and Scion were way better villains than Generic McJawless Wonder and Bastila. Both were about equal combat wise, 1 was less buggy, 2 was better balanced.

Neverwinter Nights 2..... they have far less of an excuse, though the expansions went a long way to making up for the utter shit that was the original campaign, just not all the way. Though NWN1 wasn't exactly a better product, I remember being bored to tears by it back when it came out.

Basically I liked KotoR2 more than KotoR1 (helped I got it like 5 years after release for $20, going in knowing about the bugs and cut content) and liked NWN2's expansions. But I don't trust Obsidian as they do have a big problem with rushing and bugs and cut content.


Also what DFM said is what worried me, them doing a competent shooter RPG hybrid seemed really unlikely to me considering their history. I mean they even managed to fuck a basic DnD RPG up, they really shouldn't get inventive with the gameplay, it's not their strong suit. So yeah guess I might take the wait til patch/Gold Edition approach too.

[DFM]

Edit: GREED HOW DID YOU NINJA ME WITH ALL THAT TEXT YOU FUCK

Actually Lucas Arts cut them down to a twelve month deadline without a lot of heads up, and you should hear "Twelve Month Deadline" even from the start, and know that for any game that's relatively large or ambitious that it's not going to end well. Lucas Arts is kind of notorious for dick moves like that and the actual ending for KotoR II is, mostly, present and buried in the data files. It is also extremely well written, and nobody who had a hand in making that would think "We won't take another couple months to finish it we'll just not have an ending and release it in time for the Christmas season because a brain slug is attached to my head and feeding on my precious mind juice."

Lucas Arts also stopped them from patching in the content later on because they were afraid that's the thing that would make people realize they had no qualms publishing a game that wasn't even finished.

I don't know what happened with Atari but I'm not sure what Obsidian was looking to "Excuse" in your example, since NWN2 was a good, finished game from release if I remember correctly and Mask of the Betrayer was one of the best RPG experiences in recent memory.

I think the issue with Alpha Protocol is that they just have no idea how an RPG that uses shooter mechanics should work. Or how to make a sneaking animation that doesn't preclude me from ever using stealth.

[greed]

Edit: GREED HOW DID YOU NINJA ME WITH ALL THAT TEXT YOU FUCK


I don't know what happened with Atari but I'm not sure what Obsidian was looking to "Excuse" in your example, since NWN2 was a good, finished game from release if I remember correctly and Mask of the Betrayer was one of the best RPG experiences in recent memory.

Heh no idea.

The main problem I had with NWN2 was it just seemed to plod and was kinda generic, had a fair number of bugs for me too. Still WAY better than NWN1 even taking 1's age into account. Also it actually had quite a lot of cut content and bugs and reused landscapes that were apparently going to be unique originally (they reused that mountain path like six times). Thankfully most of the cut stuff was swept under the rug better than KotoR2's and it was less important and plentiful. Still cutting Neeshka's romance in favour of leaving in creepy McMolestor Elf's was an odd decision. Basically I was a bit harsh bout NWN2, but it definitely showed signs of rushing, not sure if that was Obsidian or if it indeed was Atari, as I haven't heard stuff like about Lucasarts where I'm pretty sure KotoR2 faults lie squarely with them rather than Obsidian.

And as you said Mask of the Betrayer made up for the original campaigns flaws by being absolutely brilliant. Which is why I've got such high hopes for New Vegas, give Obsidian an already existing game to work with and a decent amount of time and you get Betrayer.

[Azisien]

On a rather humourous side note, my friend pre-purchased the game on Steam and it took a full 36 hours to "unlock" the pre-purchase security features, not including downloading/installing. It would have been faster to buy the game at midnight. WOo Steam!

[DFM]

Edit: MOTHER FUCK ALL OF YOU

Oh, yeah the main plot kind of plods along and takes at least an act (maybe two?) to get going and even then there's some slow parts. I wasn't aware they cut the Neeshka romance, what I remember a developer saying in an interview was that Neeshka, Bishop and Shandra were "false" romances and the creepy/boring characters were the "true" romances for whatever backwards reason.

And yeah, New Vegas is probably most anticipated game of the year for me at the moment will likely remain that way until I get a view of what Saint's Row III looks like at E3.

[Krylo]

I'm guessing the reason Bioware can be like "Hey Lucasarts/Atari/your mom, we're going to take like fifteen years on this shit, and you're going to like it, ok?" and the publishers are like, "Well... alright, I guess," while Obsidian is like "Hey Lucasarts/Atari/your mom, this game might need another few months," and the publishers are like, "FUCK YOU!" PROBABLY has something to do with Bioware being (and having been) a pretty established company, that was known for selling huge titles with equally huge development times, while Obsidian, well, wasn't.

It's kind of an unfair comparison to make.

It's like saying there's no reason the guy playing "Soldier #53" in the newest action flick isn't making 5 million dollars for his participation when Christian Bale is.

[Melfice]

I'm guessing the reason Bioware can be like "Hey Lucasarts/Atari/your mom, we're going to take like fifteen years on this shit, and you're going to like it, ok?" and the publishers are like, "Well... alright, I guess," while Obsidian is like "Hey Lucasarts/Atari/your mom, this game might need another few months," and the publishers are like, "FUCK YOU!" PROBABLY has something to do with Bioware being (and having been) a pretty established company, that was known for selling huge titles with equally huge development times, while Obsidian, well, wasn't.

It's kind of an unfair comparison to make.

It's like saying there's no reason the guy playing "Soldier #53" in the newest action flick isn't making 5 million dollars for his participation when Christian Bale is.

As far as I know, Obsidian is really known as "The Sequel Guys", where BioWare pretty much "only" makes new stuff.
I can see where the publisher's all: "Shit guys, all you have to do is make up some stuff that follows on the original. You should be able to do that in 12 months. Have fun!"
"But w-" "Have fun." "... and people wonder why we can't make good games."

[Doc ock rokc]

Looking at game-play and such It only seems to me that this game is Lacking Polish. The Bugs and other glitches could have been fixed in a month. the graphics could have been softened to look around ME one level in that same month. a week or 2 if they borrowed another games lighting system. The Voice actor for the main dood could have done better if He didn't strain his voice like he did (seriously some of his lines sound pretty good while the others sound like shit) the entire thing looks like a mid level development beta

[Osterbaum]

Pretty much what's beed said. I wouldn't buy this game to play it.

[DFM]

Beat it this morning.


Alpha Protocol could have been the next Deus Ex if it'd had a few more months of polish or, more likely, a few different people at the helm.

The story is great. The basic plot is a ho-hum spy thriller affair involving stolen missiles and political assassinations and double black military agencies that seemingly report to nothing. It's the way the story is told that makes it so amazing. It might be the first RPG I've played where I felt like what I was doing was really having an affect on the story, like I was wading about in a vast pool of characters and factions and my ripples were bringing down buildings.

Near the end it managed to achieve two things that I think are pretty remarkable. One, it was cinematic in the sense that all the threads closing together or around each other wouldn't have felt out of place in a really good action/spy movie.

Two, I felt like I caused all of them. It seemed, to me, what happened to every character, how they reacted to me, what they tried or didn't bother trying, felt like it would have been very different if I'd played the game another way. If I'd let a few people live that I hadn't, or killed a few people I let walk, I really got the sense that a great deal of the setup would be different.


The gameplay is... well... it's not fun. I don't think I could call it fun. I would call it... bearable. I went for a straight up combat spec, maxed assault rifles, toughness and martial arts and I never looked back because the stealth is pretty rudimentary/unforgiving and the gadget class is a major disappointment. I mean, like, insanely huge. This is a goddamn spy game and the only "gadget" they have is a sound generator that distracts guards. All you have besides that are different types of grenades. And not even creative types, just concussion, EMP, incendiary etc.

Even Martial Arts is kind of iffy. You get stuck on minor obstacles and hung up on tables and benches a whole lot, which means you stick halfway out of it spinning and punching like a karate turret.

Half of the toughness skill benefit also either doesn't work or I grossly misread the description.

The AI is probably the stupidest I've seen outside of Lemmings, I think they just switch between "Run around in a circle" and "Run up to machine gun wielding Thortan and punch him in the face"

And I wish, I wish, we had even ONE mission that was a socialite infiltration instead of some zipline wetwork marine corps deal. There are some that consist of you simply meeting a person and talking, but I mean an entire level where you have to maintain cover and search for intel, meet characters and maybe, maybe, infiltrate some hotel rooms/computer systems/whatever. I thought for sure the Hotel in Taiwan was going to be like this but NOOOOOOOOOOOOPE.


Anyway Alpha Protocol has an amazing story, terrible to bearable gameplay, lots of bugs (mostly annoying/minor, but plentiful) and a stick butt sneaking animation that I can't believe nobody called anybody else on about it looking retarded.

I'm also on my second of what's probably going to be at least a few playthroughs either because I like the plot so much or because I have a problem.

[Jagos]

So, a thin line between Love and Hate?