Square Enix Considering Bringing Final Fantasy V, VI to 3DS

[Carade]

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3180098

OH GOD I WANT IT TO HAPPEN SO MUCH.

[Kim]

What I Want: FFVI with all the sprites, backgrounds, and character portraits redrawn in higher resolution.

What I'll Get: Mediocre 3D models.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

On the other hand, If they do go 3D then here's hoping for Dissidia/KH like models.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

FUCK NO!
NO NO NO NO NO NO!

Christ! God fucking dammit I do NOT WANT THIS! FUCK!

*translation*

This is most unfortunate. I would personally would rather see the Soul Blazer Trilogy get this work done. Square Enix can buy Quintet as they have money.

[Kim]

On the other hand, If they do go 3D then here's hoping for Dissidia/KH like models.

I'd still rather have redrawn 2D sprites, because I really feel that they look much nicer than whatever 3D models we'll end up getting.

[RobinStarwing]

And yet Earthbound still doesn't get a remake....

[bluestarultor]

Not to be a killjoy, but there's a difference between "we're considering doing this" and "we aren't giving a definite no yet."

I mean, power to everyone who doesn't already have them if it happens. I wouldn't buy it, since I already have them both, but I know other people would.

[Fenris]

If this were to come about, I would simply prefer they not change the look at all. They have a certain nostalgic appeal to me.

Maybe introduce a NEW SIDE DUNGEON~ or something, but otherwise leave it untouched.

[Kim]

And yet Earthbound still doesn't get a remake....Final Fantasy VI is much, much more popular than Earthbound.


Not to be a killjoy, but there's a difference between "we're considering doing this" and "we aren't giving a definite no yet."I don't see why they wouldn't. They've remade every other FF fifty billion times over. Not really any reason they wouldn't do it with VI.

If this were to come about, I would simply prefer they not change the look at all. They have a certain nostalgic appeal to me.

Maybe introduce a NEW SIDE DUNGEON~ or something, but otherwise leave it untouched.

Then why buy it at all? Maybe I'm underestimating the value of a side dungeon, but I wouldn't consider one worth the Squeenix Tax, let alone the total cost of a game.

[Donomni]

And not caught up in legal snarls.

I'm... unaffected by this. Like they said, considering is what they're doing...

That and we kind of already had FF V and VI remakes with bonus dungeons and whatevs.

[RobinStarwing]

Final Fantasy VI is much, much more popular than Earthbound.

I don't see why they wouldn't. They've remade every other FF fifty billion times over. Not really any reason they wouldn't do it with VI.



Then why buy it at all? Maybe I'm underestimating the value of a side dungeon, but I wouldn't consider one worth the Squeenix Tax, let alone the total cost of a game.

I loved Earthbound for all it's quirks and simpleness, it was still a fun game to play for it's time.

[Roland]

Well, on the one hand, the FF4 characters were redesigned to more closely resemble their actual artwork. We could probably expect to see a Faris that actually looks masculine by FF standards, or a Celes that doesn't parade around in a swimsuit.

On the other hand, Nomura exists.

On the third hand, there are soooo many ways they could completely screw this up, the least of which is deciding to fire their current awesome translation team(s?) and do things the old school way: Handling the translation themselves.

Just imagine it: FF5, but with a translation so dry and boring that the game's nature as a by-the-numbers SNES era JRPG is completely obvious to even the least attentive gamer.

But I shall remain cautiously optimistic.

[Flarecobra]

...*Cries*

5, I can understand. Give it FF6-style sprites...and that's all I can think of right now.

6... Do not touch. Why mess with perfection?

Most likely answer: It prints MONEY!

[Kim]

I loved Earthbound for all it's quirks and simpleness, it was still a fun game to play for it's time.

That's irrelevant. People don't remake fun games. They remake popular ones. Sometimes a game is both, like FFVI, but complaining about no Earthbound remake is ridiculous. It's not popular enough to warrant a remake, at least not to the extent FFVI is, it's caught up in legal snarls like Donomni said, and Squeenix didn't even make Earthbound so I hardly see how Earthbound is relevant the thread.

[Fenris]

Then why buy it at all? Maybe I'm underestimating the value of a side dungeon, but I wouldn't consider one worth the Squeenix Tax, let alone the total cost of a game.

Portability? I guess I dunno. If they could make it look good- and make it look good I'd like that, but from my experience "updated graphics" usually means "we just took a shit on your memories."

[Kim]

Portability? I guess I dunno. If they could make it look good- and make it look good I'd like that, but from my experience "updated graphics" usually means "we just took a shit on your memories."

I believe the Chrono Trigger remake showed us that they don't need to update the graphics to do that. That said, I'm not exactly on the go enough for portability to be a big selling point to me. The 3DS has the potential for some damn fine sprite art, and even though I know we won't get that art, that's one of the things it'd take to get me interested in this remake.

[RobinStarwing]

...*Cries*

5, I can understand. Give it FF6-style sprites...and that's all I can think of right now.

6... Do not touch. Why mess with perfection?

Most likely answer: It prints MONEY!

I agree with the last part dear...>_> 6 is perfect, don't mess with it. If you are going to do anything...make Ultima easier to get as a spell for Terra.

The logic behind that is Terra is one of the two most powerful magic casters. She's also half-esper and she gets stronger physically and magically in Morphed form. *let's everyone picture Terra Morphed using Ultima*

[Kim]

Things the remake could bring to the table

1. Higher quality sprites.

2. More fluid and visually interesting attack animations.

3. Voice acting, which could theoretically give the opera scene more impact.

4. Gameplay tweaks and maybe some nifty additions to the combat.

5. The music could have much, much better audio quality. It could sound like it was actually being played with instruments.

[Azisien]

This would be an opportunity for me to give VI another shot.

[Solid Snake]

I wouldn't mind an FFVI port, but yeah, I don't feel like seeing a newly redone 3D version of FFVI. FFVI and Chrono Trigger were both masterpieces of the SNES era 2D style: to see either of them re-imagined into something entirely different and slightly more 3D in the vein of FFIV on the DS would probably result in a graphical downgrade.

An FFVI port done in the style of Chrono Trigger DS wouldn't be so bad, though, so long as they didn't muck up the original translation like they did with CT.

I'd have a much easier time getting behind a FFV remake done in the style of FFIV: FFV wasn't quite as gorgeous aesthetically as FFVI or CT and it isn't quite as well known either, so perhaps a fresh paint job wouldn't be such a travesty.

Now what they should be remaking for the 3DS is FFVII, because unlike FFVI, FFVII's early-era 3D graphics are ugly as sin today (I find them quite endearing on the basis of sheer nostalgia value, but a new, younger gamer would surely disagree.) Cloud, Tifa, Red XIII and the gang would benefit tremendously from a 3DS remake, and that remake would sell a hell of a lot more copies anyway. But something tells me Square-Enix is going to wait until the recession gets a bit worse (and possibly until the next X720 and/or PS4 hits the market) to introduce an HD FF7.

[bluestarultor]

I believe the Chrono Trigger remake showed us that they don't need to update the graphics to do that. That said, I'm not exactly on the go enough for portability to be a big selling point to me. The 3DS has the potential for some damn fine sprite art, and even though I know we won't get that art, that's one of the things it'd take to get me interested in this remake.

Nonsie, buddy, if you're using a 3D game system to display 2D sprites, you're doing it wrong.

Aside from that, the 3DS puts the processing power of the DS to shame. From what I'm hearing, it's on par with the PSP in terms of graphics, so the likelihood of a repeat of FF4's Godawful polygons is pretty low.

[Kim]

Well, one thing that these remakes would have going for them that the DS remakes didn't is that the 3DS is actually somewhat competent at rendering 3D. The DS... not so much.

Nonsie, buddy, if you're using a 3D game system to display 2D sprites, you're doing it wrong.

Actually, these could compliment each other really well. Doesn't even take much thought to see how. It'd just require some thought put into the 3D beyond "Let's have stuff rush at the player!"

[Solid Snake]

Nonsie, buddy, if you're using a 3D game system to display 2D sprites, you're doing it wrong.


You've just essentially reiterated exactly why FFVII is the game Square-Enix should be remaking for the 3DS.
It's funny though how the 2D-era games I don't particularly want to see remade are getting remade, while games like the original Metal Gear (which I would *love* to see a 3DS remake for) are being overlooked. What is this, bizarro world?

[bluestarultor]

Pretty much. The only thing we'd have to worry about is the text all being gutted, because you know that "son of a submariner" is probably going to be on the chopping block.

Well, maybe not. They did keep "you spoony bard."

[Kim]

The only thing we'd have to worry about is the text all being gutted, because you know that "son of a submariner" is probably going to be on the chopping block. I take it you missed the GBA remake?

[bluestarultor]

I take it you missed the GBA remake?

Yes. However could you tell? ;)

[Kim]

Anywho, I'd wager that if someone at Squeenix actually used their brain-meats, they could use the 3D to make the 2D sprites feel like they, and the 2D environments, have depth.

[bluestarultor]

Anywho, I'd wager that if someone actually used their brain-meats, they could use the 3D to make the 2D sprites feel like they, and the 2D environments, have depth.

Are you indicating that everything be set up like Paper Mario with everything being cardboard cutouts or are you talking about some sort of pixel-by-pixel depth calculation? Because, to be frank, I wouldn't care for the former and the latter is unnecessary when you can just do a 3D model and probably save on overhead.


Edit: Like, the pixel-depth thing might be interesting if the original sprites were used at 1x, but the system actually has a higher resolution this time around, so to see them that way would require a magnifying glass.

[Kim]

pixel-by-pixel depth calculation? (Assuming I can actually put the concept into words and assuming I am interpreting what you're saying correctly) Eh, more like regular 2D sprites, but with specific 3D to every frame, rather than figuring it out relative everything else constantly. You wouldn't really have a rotatable camera except for airship parts, so I think it could work.

Or they could do it like the DQ DS remakes and have 2D sprites in battle and the world, but 3D environments.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Nonsie, buddy, if you're using a 3D game system to display 2D sprites, you're doing it wrong.

Aside from that, the 3DS puts the processing power of the DS to shame. From what I'm hearing, it's on par with the PSP in terms of graphics, so the likelihood of a repeat of FF4's Godawful polygons is pretty low.

It's actually past it in terms of graphics (not by much though).

So VI using 3D models would look great.

[bluestarultor]

From what I'm getting, you're either suggesting applying a bump map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_map) to the flat surface of the sprite to make it 3D when viewed from the front or you're suggesting a technology similar to Okami where things are rendered in 3D first and then flattened onto a 2D surface. Which are honestly complete opposites. :raise:

[Azisien]

Hay guys come on graphics don't matter right? It's all about the, uh, story!

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Pretty sure what he was talking about was something along the lines of Bump Mapping the Sprites.

[Kim]

Eh, neither f those, but I'll drop the subject for now, until I figure out a better way of putting it into words. 3D aside, because the 3D is completely irrelevant what I'd like to see, 2D is just going to look nicer than whatever 3D the 3DS can do.

Hay guys come on graphics don't matter right? It's all about the, uh, story!I get that you're being facetious, but it's a story we've already seen, and I don't see any changes to the story improving it. That leaves presentation. Excusably bad graphics don't ruin a good game, and good graphics don't fix a bad game. I don't think anyone has ever meant anything other than that when talking about the irrelevance of graphics.

[bluestarultor]

Hay guys come on graphics don't matter right? It's all about the, uh, story!

If people were excited about the story, they'd already have it for SNES, PS1, or GBA. ;)

That's why I'm not really excited about the prospect, because I already have Anthology. Although I never did finish either of them. Come to think of it, I've never actually finished any FF. Actually, I just suck at finishing games. :ohdear:


Edit:

2D is just going to look nicer than whatever 3D the 3DS can do.

The 3DS does what the PSP can do and apparently more. I don't think you have to worry.

[Jagos]

Blues, hand in your gamer's license, now.

You need to start finishing games.

I just sincerely wish Square would focus on something else other than the FF series.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

My last graphics comment:
Non con, to apply what you were talking about (rendering the sprites) without it being more work then it needs to be. They'd have to create sprites similar to KH:CoM or Lunar Knights (Baktai DS) for the characters and NPCs.

That or size up the sprites.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Seeing as the 3DS is capable of PS2 era graphics, I see no reason why they can't go for the graphical design of DQ VIII

[Kim]

I just sincerely wish Square would focus on something else other than the FF series.

They remade Chrono Trigger and everyone bitched. I think they had good reason to bitch, but they still bitched. No incentive to do anything with that franchise if people are just going to get upset. Plus, they're doing several other franchises at the moment. Parasite Eve, they just came out with Nier, they're working on a Tomb Raider game, and probably a few things I forgot.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

It'd be nice to see a 3rd Musashi game that was great or at least decent.

2 was alright but it was sad how I was not expecting the combat to be lacking the way it was.

[bluestarultor]

Blues, hand in your gamer's license, now.

You need to start finishing games.

I just sincerely wish Square would focus on something else other than the FF series.

In all fairness, most of my problem comes from the fact that my brother hijacks my saves and barrels though without training, so I usually end up in an area with no idea what's going on getting 1-shot by every rock, bug, and blade of grass.

I DID get to the end despite him in Legend of Dragoon, but he screwed me over literally right before the final boss by using up all my revival items to bring me there.

Basically what I'm saying is never leave a younger sibling alone with your files if you're further than he is. Playing back up to halfway / three-fourths / the end is a pain in the ass and eventually kills your desire to game at all.



Back on topic, since we're now all saying what we'd like to see, I say redo Chrono Cross from the ground up and actually finish it. If you're going to forcibly link CT to it with CTDS, you may as well make it worth linking to with CC3DS or CCPS3. If it does well, you can finally make Chrono Brake.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Which is why you should back your saves up like I do.

That aside, I'd also like to see a 3rd chrono game. I'm sure they'll do it eventually. It's just a matter of timing.

[Kim]

Basically what I'm saying is never leave a younger sibling alone with your files if you're further than he is.

Just break his arms. It works for me.

[Art of Hilt]

Jesus christ remaking FFVI with 3D graphics in a way that won't be devastatingly disappointing would require such a close attention to tone and detail that would translate and mix the SNES original with the concept art, and would therefore be such a painstaking endeavor that I simply don't see them doing it for a remake on a handheld.

Or maybe I'm being pessimistic. After all, they are withholding judgement until they can ascertain whether the 3DS would be suitable. Whether that means 'suitable for a worthy recreation' or 'suitable to cram in the entire game with blocky models'...

[POS Industries]

Fuck all y'all haters, I want more kickass Dave Wittenberg-voiced Kefka (and even more kickass Shigeru Chiba Kefka in the japanese version).

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Sales most likely. They most likely want to see how well the 3DS sells first.

[Amake]

My first thought on seeing this thread was "Finally we get to peek into Terra's cleavage."

Otherwise, meh. Wasn't planning on getting 3DS anyway. Maybe they can avoid obvious mistakes like "fixing" the translation of character names. (Tina, Mash, Cayenne.) Although you know if they keep making remakes it's going to happen sometime. Hey, remember the Vanish-Doom phenomena (http://www.errantstory.com/2002-12-18/34)? Already fixed. How many future generations do you figure will never get that joke?

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Fuck all y'all haters, I want more kickass Dave Wittenberg-voiced Kefka (and even more kickass Shigeru Chiba Kefka in the japanese version).

The problem is that S-E will butcher it with other voices. 1 Voice does not equate greatness for all.

My first thought on seeing this thread was "Finally we get to peek into Terra's cleavage."

Dissidia does that pretty well.

[Azisien]

If people were excited about the story, they'd already have it for SNES, PS1, or GBA. ;)

I get that you're being facetious, but it's a story we've already seen, and I don't see any changes to the story improving it. That leaves presentation.

Well actually I could never get it for the SNES, never saw it on the PS1, and didn't really know it existed on the GBA until I started working at a game store, but haven't seen a copy come in in 2 years. I only played part of the game on a rom, so it's actually a story I haven't totally seen!

That does make me part of their potential target audience, along with cashing in on the "Gotta have it!" folks that, well, gotta have it.

High-res 2D sprites would be great, but with the new graphical power of the 3DS, I believe something amicable could be cooked up there too.

[POS Industries]

The problem is that S-E will butcher it with other voices. 1 Voice does not equate greatness for all.
I repeat:

Fuck all y'all haters

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

I repeat:

Allow me to be bitter.

I will not stop bitching until I get my Soul Blazer, Illusion of Gaia and Terranigma remake.

[POS Industries]

So you will not stop bitching. Ever.

Gotcha.

[Bells]

I'll tell you right now. Sony has an Eye out for this.

If the 3DS gets a new Final fantasy game it's not because it will be 3D... it's because it will be "3D"...

...Fuck, this 3D gaming stuff is making harder to make points.

You see. From Final Fantasy 7 and Onwards that's Sony territory. And Final Fantasy 7 sells, from the Games Sony has their hands on, it's the leading one. Because the fans love it. So, when they need to Squeenix Love they can easily pick a new FF7 branded game.

On Nintendo's Front they have reach into anything from 1 to 6, to they are going to work on those. They already milked the first 5 games to hell and back, so 6 is just a logical next step right...

But How would you pull out 3D gaming on Final Fantasy? That's what Squeenix is looking for here. And They can milk as much as they do (and we know they do) but let us be honest... they remake games when they feel they can actually add something to the title. With Tweeks and extras... not just to toss in new Gimmicks.

So 3D gameplay would fall into that area.

I don't know if this is something that is going to Happen. I can't just imagine how 3D gameplay would improve FF5 or 6 enought to warrant a brand new game... regardless of it being 3d or 2d.

I'll tell you this, adding 3D effects to Sprits like Flying objects and Spells in a 2D game could be kinda cool.

On the other Hand, i would BET that as Agito 13 and Versus 13 Hit the PSP and PS3, Nintendo will announce a new FF for the 3DS. And then it's likely we might hear something for Dissidia 2.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

So you will not stop bitching. Ever.

Gotcha.

I have a selfish (http://ocremix.org/) reason for wanting a Soul Blazer Trilogy.

I am still hesitant on the remakes tho.

I almost cringe at thinking how Cyan will sound. And dare we remember Setzer from KH2.

[POS Industries]

If KH factored into anything, Sephiroth would be voiced by Lance Bass to this day.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

If KH factored into anything, Sephiroth would be voiced by Lance Bass to this day.

Excuse me while roll on the floor laughing while imagining that voice.

[POS Industries]

Excuse me while roll on the floor laughing while imagining that voice.
In the age of Youtube, who needs imagination? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW8FqcOnj24)

[Kim]

Kefka's voice actor in Dissidia was pretty fantastic. So long as they bring him back, and go to the same effort in voice actor choice for the other characters, I won't have any worries.

[EVILNess]

On Nintendo's Front they have reach into anything from 1 to 6, to they are going to work on those. They already milked the first 5 games to hell and back, so 6 is just a logical next step right...


Final Fantasy Anthology, Chronicles, and Origins would like to have a word with you.

Squeenix isn't above pimping on any platform.

[RobinStarwing]

Okay, I think I will actually do a nice big post and speak for myself in regards to my thoughts on this.

First off, let's stop comparing the Chrono Trigger DS remake to anything else. Outside of the extra dungeons (which were hard & tedious as hell to get through but you got some pretty awesome weapons for your work in one. The other...bleh but I did it.) It was still pretty good in my book because they didn't mess with the core of the game. Still, Chrono Trigger is NOT Final Fantasy so let's stop comparing the two. I actually went out and bougth the CT DS around my birthday a couple years ago and it's a fun game for me.

Next, Terra with cleavage! :dance: The question that has bugged me since 7 was who in the pre-7 era had more talent. ;) (If you are a true Moonie, you get this reference and I will give you a cookie!) Sorry, I just always thought Terra was the best. She may not be physically the strongest of the characters but magically, she could lay down the hurt. Terra Vs. Seymour (FF10) anyone?

Actually, that last bit was pure silliness about Terra w/ cleavage but I'd like to see more of her around in other FF-related properties besides Dissidia. (Terra wielding a Keyblade anyone or at least in KH like the rest of the FF-cast?).

3D modeling...I can't say whether I love it or hate it but if the 3DS is capable of PS2-era graphics than why not? FF6 has a beautiful world and it would add some challenge to the game if we had to move in 3 dimensions rather than just 2. The one thing I'd take out and fix is Random battles. Make us able to see the monsters and pick our battles in the dungeons BEFORE they start rather than after we go to the battle screen. Random battles are something of the past I think.

Not sure what else I can say about this so I will leave my points as they stand.

[bluestarultor]

I really don't get the hate for random battles. They make grinding a lot easier and pretty well ensure your party is properly leveled for the next boss if you actually fight them.

I get that we can do all sorts of fancy things with enemies in the field, but, news flash, we've been able to do that since the CGA (early DOS) era, as seen in the Ultima series. Not to mention that it was already done by the same company on the same original console in Chrono Trigger.

It doesn't make much sense gutting a perfectly valid system and having to totally rebalance the game for a different play style just because the technology's fancier.

[Kim]

I really don't get the hate for random battles. They make grinding a lot easier and pretty well ensure your party is properly leveled for the next boss if you actually fight them.

Having the choice of whether or not to do any combat is nice, and especially convenient when I just want to hurry to the next save point. Additionally, in a good game, there is usually more to the non-random combat than simply touching the enemy on the field. As for the whole "they make grinding a lot easier", not really. Whenever I want to grind in a game without random encounters, I generally am able to initiate combat more or less as quickly as I could when they were random encounters, until everything in the area is dead, which is a perfect opportunity to go save.

[bluestarultor]

Having the choice of whether or not to do any combat is nice, and especially convenient when I just want to hurry to the next save point. Additionally, in a good game, there is usually more to the non-random combat than simply touching the enemy on the field. As for the whole "they make grinding a lot easier", not really. Whenever I want to grind in a game without random encounters, I generally am able to initiate combat more or less as quickly as I could when they were random encounters, until everything in the area is dead, which is a perfect opportunity to go save.

While that's true to an extent, well-designed games with random encounters don't trample you between save points. FF6 is actually blisteringly easy in the beginning. I know, because I was inspired to pop it in last night and start a new file. Without actually stopping to grind, I was never in danger of dying or running out of items and I had enough to buy all of Edward's available Tools like three times over if not more, which have turned the game into a protracted session of "shit, I have to keep these enemies alive so Locke can rob them." I haven't even used Fire yet. The biggest limitation I've had so far is the slow walk speed and issues controlling myself while running. Battle is also kind of frustratingly sluggish, but I think I can adjust that.

Plus, monsters on the field work fine when you have wide open spaces, but FF6's dungeons are nothing short of cramped and labyrinthine. Short of a total redesign, you'd basically be forced into every battle.

Also, monsters on the field are hard to implement on a world map. Chrono Cross tried this in one area, but the effect wasn't very good. Given how much hoofing it around the world map you do, it's easier to just let the systems be.


I'm not saying monsters on the field are a bad thing or that random battles are better, just that everything has its place.

[Kim]

Also, monsters on the field are hard to implement on a world map.


Tales of Symphonia.

[greed]

Yeah Symphonia and Vesperia both prove that wandering encounters work on world maps.

And Persona 3 shows that they can work in dense clustered labyrinths.

[Jagos]

I really don't get the hate for random battles. They make grinding a lot easier and pretty well ensure your party is properly leveled for the next boss if you actually fight them.

I get that we can do all sorts of fancy things with enemies in the field, but, news flash, we've been able to do that since the CGA (early DOS) era, as seen in the Ultima series. Not to mention that it was already done by the same company on the same original console in Chrono Trigger.

It doesn't make much sense gutting a perfectly valid system and having to totally rebalance the game for a different play style just because the technology's fancier.

Random battles is annoying as all get up. It's disjointing to have to wait for a screen to load or change fields to fight enemies that weren't there before. I don't care if it's about grinding or anything else. All I want is to know that hey look, that salamander is something I can fight, kill it. Not "doo do doo... I--what the...?!"

Furthermore, if the company gets it wrong, then you have to fight at every. Three. F(*&%ing. Steps. which actually turned me off to quite a few RPGs that weren't Secret of Mana/Evermore back in the day. It took me a while to beat Lufia because it had that exact problem.

I'm not even going to get into what happens when you get back to the main screen, forgot which way you were going, and ran into ANOTHER Random battle. FFFFUUU---

Bof II had that very problem. Great game but FUCK! The Sky Tower really got annoying with RBs...

[Kim]

SMT Strange Journey made random battles much less annoying by having something at the top of the screen that let you know how close you were to having another one, as well as special stuff you could use to make random encounters more/less frequent.

[Red Fighter 1073]

Furthermore, if the company gets it wrong, then you have to fight at every. Three. F(*&%ing. Steps. which actually turned me off to quite a few RPGs that weren't Secret of Mana/Evermore back in the day.

This. Holy shit this. Pretty much exactly why I hate random battles and hell even some RPGs altogether. If I want to battle and level up, I want to be able to do it on my own terms. There's nothing more disjointing than having an enemy appear out of nowhere every five seconds when you're just trying to do a puzzle or just get through a dungeon.

[bluestarultor]

Tales of Symphonia.

Yeah Symphonia and Vesperia both prove that wandering encounters work on world maps.

And Persona 3 shows that they can work in dense clustered labyrinths.

You guys are right. Tales of the Abyss had visible battles on the world map and it worked quite well. I guess my mind was stuck on the zoomed out overview approach that FF6 has and the closest comparison was that CC section.

And yes, Persona 3 (and 4, too) has battles in cramped mazes, but it also has small enemy representations for the most part and its fair share of larger rooms to put them in. They're also relatively slow and blind. I have to say that's fine for Persona, since it's all Shadows, but FF6 has woolly mammoths and stuff running around and a general lack of open spaces that half of them would even be able to fit in if things were to scale. I mean I guess you could just blow the maps up in relation and have little mini-monsters running around, but I don't think the latter would really be satisfying. I loved the enemies being on the field in the Grandia series, but a lot of that came from them being the same size when you actually fought them. I'd honestly rather have random battles than deal with those kinds of scaling issues, but that's just me.

Random battles is annoying as all get up. It's disjointing to have to wait for a screen to load or change fields to fight enemies that weren't there before. I don't care if it's about grinding or anything else. All I want is to know that hey look, that salamander is something I can fight, kill it. Not "doo do doo... I--what the...?!"

Furthermore, if the company gets it wrong, then you have to fight at every. Three. F(*&%ing. Steps. which actually turned me off to quite a few RPGs that weren't Secret of Mana/Evermore back in the day. It took me a while to beat Lufia because it had that exact problem.

I'm not even going to get into what happens when you get back to the main screen, forgot which way you were going, and ran into ANOTHER Random battle. FFFFUUU---

Bof II had that very problem. Great game but FUCK! The Sky Tower really got annoying with RBs...

Well, that WOULD be very annoying if it applied to Square's games, but they've been quite good about encounter rate from the very beginning. At least in FF. Like, okay, I get you're talking globally, but most games aren't all that bad about it from my experience.

Also, games tend to return your character back to where they were standing and facing the direction they'd been facing before battle. Even Quest 64 did that much for all its flaws. I hate to sound like I'm attacking you for this, but it's a universal visual cue to help avoid the player getting lost.

I can get wanting to see if a battle's coming up, but it's all just an aesthetics issue. In most cases, running into an enemy sets you off to a battle arena anyway, so there's nothing gained or lost there. When it doesn't, you're either playing an MMO or FF12, which is an MMO in all but multiplayer. An MMO system puts a lot of balance up to random chance, too. It's fair enough if the monsters are sparse and there's not much chance of getting more than you can handle, but then they're sparse and you have to run around to kill them all, which can make grinding a pain. In cases where they're dense enough to come to each others' aid, you really have to start worrying about your luck or find some way to lure them away from the pack or suffer. Like it or not, cutting to a battle area is a form of protection. You get your monster group and fight it without interruptions, rinse and repeat. Maybe it takes a bit more in loading, but it also gives you some opportunity to recover.

SMT Strange Journey made random battles much less annoying by having something at the top of the screen that let you know how close you were to having another one, as well as special stuff you could use to make random encounters more/less frequent.

I'd argue this is a better alternative. The Legend of Dragoon had an indicator for how close a battle was and items that could knock it back down or bump it up. They even made the system colorblind-friendly.

Quite frankly, I don't know why more games don't do it that way.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Atelier Iris did. Or was it Ar Tonelico.

[Kim]

I dislike random encounters because too many games fuck them up, and because being able to go "Fuck you game I'm done here" and just hurry off to the nearest save point is very, very nice. No matter how much I like a game, I play a minimum of fifty a year. There are times I'm going to get sick and tired of a game and just want to move on to something else, and if I am stuck in a dungeon suffering constant random encounters when I'm not in the mood for them, that's going to make me even more frustrated and fed up with the game than I was already.

[bluestarultor]

I guess I just have to consider myself lucky that I've only ever played good games. :sweatdrop

Well, I mean, I HAVE played bad games, but even then they were bad for entirely different reasons than running into too many random battles. I don't even know what too many random battles looks like. I'll just have to take your guys' word for it.

[Kim]

Suikoden's awful world map is what it looks like. Constant random encounters, a very slow walking speed, and the encounters are almost always a waste of time because the enemies don't scale.

[EVILNess]

Suikoden's awful world map is what it looks like. Constant random encounters, a very slow walking speed, and the encounters are almost always a waste of time because the enemies don't scale.

The encounter rate in Suikoden is really only middle of the road, it's not super high. Also, why are you hating on the world map? It's not very large and is mostly covered in water. The movement speed thing is just you being picky.

Also you are right, the enemies never scale in an area... just like almost every RPG ever.

[Kim]

EVILNess, without going into more detail about why I disliked Suikoden's world map and further derailing the thread, let me just say that blaming someone's opinion on them "just being picky" isn't a very good angle to come from. I didn't like something you liked, and I actually have reasons for it. Saying I'm just picky is dismissive and rude, and doesn't give me much incentive to take your side of the argument seriously.

On the subject of FFVI 3DS, I expect that using the touchscreen for the battles, assuming it's done right, will make a lot of the battles move along more quickly. That's always nice.

[bluestarultor]

EVILNess, without going into more detail about why I disliked Suikoden's world map and further derailing the thread, let me just say that blaming someone's opinion on them "just being picky" isn't a very good angle to come from. I didn't like something you liked, and I actually have reasons for it. Saying I'm just picky is dismissive and rude, and doesn't give me much incentive to take your side of the argument seriously.

On the subject of FFVI 3DS, I expect that using the touchscreen for the battles, assuming it's done right, will make a lot of the battles move along more quickly. That's always nice.

For all that is good, I just got an image of you being able to manage more than one action at a time! No longer will waiting for Cyan's Sword Techs paralyze your ability to input commands!

[Loyal]

For all that is good, I just got an image of you being able to manage more than one action at a time! No longer will waiting for Cyan's Sword Techs paralyze your ability to input commands!To be honest, there was never an excuse for this in the first place. Cyan's turn comes up, you select a specific Sword Tech, and move on to your other characters. Cyan waits in place for a period of time appropriate to the tech (see: magic casting time), and then executes it. Nice and easy.

[bluestarultor]

To be honest, there was never an excuse for this in the first place. Cyan's turn comes up, you select a specific Sword Tech, and move on to your other characters. Cyan waits in place for a period of time appropriate to the tech (see: magic casting time), and then executes it. Nice and easy.

Maybe it's been too long, but I thought you had to select Sword Tech and park yourself there until it charged up to the number you wanted and then you pressed X (I have the PS version).

I mean, I hope I'm dead wrong (it's been several years), but that just happens to be how I remember it.

[Krylo]

No.

You're both wrong/right.

In the original FF6 for the SNES you had to sit there and let it charge.

On the rerelease in Anthologies, it worked as Loyal described, if I remember right, though I don't have the remake to test this myself.

I'd, personally, give the tip of my hat to Blues, because SOMEONE here has obviously not played the original cartridge.

That someone's name is Loyal.

[Loyal]

I was describing it as it should have been. Hence, "There was never an excuse for this in the first place," as in "This is what they should have done to begin with."

I never played Anthologies and was unaware that someone had implemented it already. Which leads me to wonder why they would have gone BACK to the old, shitty model in the GBA remake.

[bluestarultor]

No, as a fair note, I've never owned a SNES, so the implementation probably never changed at all if what I described is correct.

I'll also admit that I totally misunderstood what Loyal was saying.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Oh dear God I hated the Swordtechs. That overall was the reason I never used Cyan after the Magitek factory.

Anyways, I'm neutral on this until we see something. As they said, it might not happen. If it does, Iit all comes down to if they do it right. If they do, then all I can say is "FUCK YES!" If they don't. I'll just look the other way and ignore it.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

If they were to do this. I would want to see Touch screen utilized for the sword techs and blitzes. Make it so when you want to use them, you gotta use it like Neku's Tech's from TWEWY (still want a TWEWY 2)

[RobinStarwing]

If they were to do this. I would want to see Touch screen utilized for the sword techs and blitzes. Make it so when you want to use them, you gotta use it like Neku's Tech's from TWEWY (still want a TWEWY 2)

Never played TWEWY but I like this idea alot!