Late to the party: Mega Man 10.

[bluestarultor]

Finally broke down and got this today. Didn't do much with it, but I did pop for Bass and was impressed that doing so added his face to the start screen.

Having Treble Boost off the bat is, well, interesting. Almost cheap in a way, since you don't get Rush Jet until later (although I think Proto Man gets his Proto Jet off the bat, so I'll have to try that out just to see).



Something I wish they'd done was let you switch between the three somehow. It's fine and dandy to challenge yourself with a Proto Man game, but you don't get any reward for it since you don't get leader board things with anyone but Megs and then only on Normal, which just seems lazy. It would have been easy enough to make boards for everyone at every difficulty, or at least on Normal and Hard if you don't want the experienced players wiping the floor with shlubs like me on Easy. What if I want to go back through a level with Proto Man to pick up some items? Or Bass because I'm having trouble with a jumping puzzle and don't have Rush Jet yet? Just because most MM games with multiple characters don't let you switch doesn't mean that allowing it would be a bad idea.



So yeah, use this thread to discuss MM10. I don't think we need to worry about spoilers too much (if you don't know who the bad guy is by now, you probably deserve to be spoiled), but I guess label them like always.

[Kim]

I've played this a bit, made it to Wily's castle, haven't beaten it quite yet. I have two problems with this game. First off, I think the levels are too long. That's a matter of personal preference, of course, but it does bother me. Secondly, I'm actually disappointed in the powers this time around. One of the gimmicks for Wily's Castle bosses is them being weak to things that are similar to what they were weak to in their original games. Guy who is weak to the Gemini laser will be weak to the Rebound whatever because they both bounce off walls, for example. It's interesting, but it really makes it stand out how there aren't any powers we haven't seen before. Maybe Megaman 9 was just as bad, but if it was it certainly wasn't as obvious. Still a good game. I just like Megaman 9 more.

[akaSM]

Just because most MM games with multiple characters don't let you switch doesn't mean that allowing it would be a bad idea.

I had Mega Man Xtreme 2 for the GBC, and switching between X and Zero just by pressing select (in Xtreme mode) was awesome, I also loved how you could change your character for a level in Mega Man X5.

[Loyal]

Protoman doesn't play well with others, and Bass wouldn't last two stages before punching Megs in the back of the head. On top of that, their abilities are not so different that you get a game-changing benefit from switching from one to another mid-stage.

I don't recall any platforming quirks that were particularly difficult in this game, but if there were, you can pick another level and come back later when you do have the Rush Jet.

Megs is the most ideal for leaderboards. Bass and, yes, Protoman, get their jet modules to begin with, and Megaman has the most balanced attack power on his buster (I choose to ignore the increased damage Bass and Protoman take because in a time attack you ideally aren't getting hit in the first place). There's no reason to add leaderboards for all three bots because aside from those minor-yet-significant caveats, it's the same game. Similar story for difficulty adjustments. Some platforms are shifted, you take more damage, there's a few more enemies here and there. It's the same game either way, but still different enough to contaminate leaderboards if that were an option.

In both cases, however, neither the bots nor the difficulties are different enough to justify their own leaderboards.

A developer isn't lazy just because they choose not to put something in.

With that said... I bought the special stages, which are very cool ideas, but haven't gotten around to beating them. Punk and Ballade are fuckers.

[bluestarultor]

Protoman doesn't play well with others, and Bass wouldn't last two stages before punching Megs in the back of the head. On top of that, their abilities are not so different that you get a game-changing benefit from switching from one to another mid-stage.

I don't recall any platforming quirks that were particularly difficult in this game, but if there were, you can pick another level and come back later when you do have the Rush Jet.

Megs is the most ideal for leaderboards. Bass and, yes, Protoman, get their jet modules to begin with, and Megaman has the most balanced attack power on his buster (I choose to ignore the increased damage Bass and Protoman take because in a time attack you ideally aren't getting hit in the first place). There's no reason to add leaderboards for all three bots because aside from those minor-yet-significant caveats, it's the same game. Similar story for difficulty adjustments. Some platforms are shifted, you take more damage, there's a few more enemies here and there. It's the same game either way, but still different enough to contaminate leaderboards if that were an option.

In both cases, however, neither the bots nor the difficulties are different enough to justify their own leaderboards.

A developer isn't lazy just because they choose not to put something in.

With that said... I bought the special stages, which are very cool ideas, but haven't gotten around to beating them. Punk and Ballade are fuckers.

It's not laziness so much as they totally could have and didn't. I mean, cripes, you don't even need it stored in a database. A text file is sufficient for that kind of data (unless you're worried about hacking). That's really a very minor concern, though, since I'll never see my name on them. ;)

On the prospect of switching, mid-level would be unnecessary, but between levels might have been nice. But then I never much liked the idea of starting a "[character] game" in the first place unless there was a decent justification for it (such as the game taking place in a much wider world), which in the case of Proto and Megs there isn't, because not only are they considered brothers, but Proto actually offered to team up in this case. I get that Bass is a rival, but he's teamed up with Megs before, albeit with an actual common foe, which doesn't really apply here. Only it totally could, because the story starts off with Megs and Light agreeing to work with Wily, who could have just as easily told Bass to go help them before the inevitable backstabbing, but it's not like that wasn't how Bass introduced himself in the first place and his loyalties to Wily are tenuous enough to justify him taking him out at the end.

I'm just saying it might have been nice to do like X5 and let the player switch between levels, since they DO have much the same mechanics, but have those differences of flavor. Having to pick one and stick with him for the whole game feels somewhat limiting in an unnecessary way.

[Loyal]

"Could have" is not the same as "should have," Blues. "It's easy and light on memory to put in" is not the same as "It's a good idea," Blues, and that is the weakest justification for added content I've ever heard. As I've said, and as I've explained, there is absolutely no purpose to Proto and Bass, Easy and Hard leaderboards.

Also, Bass isn't teaming up with Megs or Protoman at all. He's going after Wily on his own for, once again, opting for the world domination with robot masters bit instead of making Bass stronger.

All three robots are going it solo and your choice at the beginning determines which of the three are doing so at all - we can assume that the unpicked (among Megs and Proto) goes off to deal with the worldwide Roboenza crisis in areas that don't have anything to do with the robot masters. Bass, if unpicked, probably goes off and shoots infected robots out of boredom.

[bluestarultor]

"Could have" is not the same as "should have," Blues. "It's easy and light on memory to put in" is not the same as "It's a good idea," Blues, and that is the weakest justification for added content I've ever heard. As I've said, and as I've explained, there is absolutely no purpose to Proto and Bass, Easy and Hard leaderboards.

Also, Bass isn't teaming up with Megs or Protoman at all. He's going after Wily on his own for, once again, opting for the world domination with robot masters bit instead of making Bass stronger.

All three robots are going it solo and your choice at the beginning determines which of the three are doing so at all - we can assume that the unpicked (among Megs and Proto) goes off to deal with the worldwide Roboenza crisis in areas that don't have anything to do with the robot masters. Bass, if unpicked, probably goes off and shoots infected robots out of boredom.

No need to be sharp. I know what goes into these kinds of things, believe me.

Like I said, the leaderboards thing is minor. In fact, limiting it to just Megs is probably the best benchmark of skill simply because Megs plays most like the classic games and doesn't get any freebies off the bat (minus Rush Coil, but that doesn't really offer a combat advantage). Proto plays a less forgiving game with his lower defense, but he also compensates a ton with his other abilities. Bass is almost cheap with his rapid-fire, normal shots that break enemy shields, and the ability to fly around from the get-go.

I get the difference between "could" and "should," but I'm not saying "should" for that.


On the triple heroes, this is Mega Man we're talking about here. The writing isn't exactly winning any awards. Again, there's a line between "could" and "should" on this and I'm erring more toward "could." On one hand, it's not the end of the world that they didn't, but on the other, it would have been nice. They're making these under the guise of "world's best NES game," so not letting the player switch characters between levels is acceptable, and now that I'm more awake, preferable given all the extras Proto and Bass start with. I just personally prefer the ability to alter play mid-game. I'm not much for starting games at a set difficulty, either.

So I guess on that, I see why they didn't given the systems they had in place, but I'm just a bit disappointed that it worked out that way. I feel it was a place where they could have experimented a bit more after the success of the previous experiment in MM9, where they already tested the water for a multi-character setup with Proto Man as DLC. Then again, maybe they weren't sure on it and just wanted to make sure it was polished, which is a real, understandable concern. Maybe they'll let you switch that way in MM11. Maybe in MM12, they'll allow 2-player as a first for the series, or let you play as Roll, both of which were ideas that got slung around and rejected in MM2. They can't just ride on the 8-bit style alone forever and I'll be happily waiting to see what they come up with next.

[ZAKtheGeek]

I haven't beaten hard mode yet. It's really hard! I'm kinda close, though.

The gold challenges for hard bosses are ridiculous. Particular Nitro Man. I don't even know how to beat him on normal without abusing his weakness... Really, not a clue. Although I didn't try for that long. <_<

[EVILNess]

I must ashamedly admit I still can't beat MM9.