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Nique
12-30-2010, 03:10 AM
Workin' on my nerd game again. I'm grateful for any input you have.

Quick refresher: This is a as-of-yet unnamed Tabletop RPG, to take place in a 'steampunk w/ magic & elemental races' fantasy world. Yes, I know is sounds like Avatar: The Last Airbender.

So far the best things about the game in it's current state is that it uses familiar tabletop mechanics but simplifies them for novice players. What I need help with is developing the skills system (magic, buffs, etc) and finding a good way for the different energy types (earth, wind, water, fire, ether) to apply. I am also looking for more input on the aesthetics of the game. Although we have come up with traits and names for the 5 different races, we're still trying to think of a good name for the world, continents, and the game itself.

I'll try to break down a character sheet.

Hit Points: There are two categories of Hit Points: Defensive energy (Health, HP) and offensive energy (Action, AP). Players are given 10 points to distribute between these two fields which determines the ‘Rank’ and rate of growth for each. Characters gain more Hit Points every time they level up. Whenever a character takes a turn in combat or rolls for sucess, an Action Point is used. Additional AP can be spent to use skills (magic, buffs, etc).

Starting at level 0, The range of hit points a character may have for either field is 8 at Rank 0, and 20 at Rank 10.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1862/hitpointsa.png (http://img148.imageshack.us/i/hitpointsa.png/)

Stats: There are 6 stats (STR-VIT-DEX-INT-WIS-CHA; basically your DnD lineup). At level 0Players have 30 points to assign to these 6 stats. Every 10 points to a stat grants 1 additional point to related Abilities.

Abilities: There are 12 different abilities that are based on your raw stats. Ability scores determine how many D6 dice you may roll for each Ability. These rolls would function a lot like Shadowrun's dice pools, where you have to roll 5s and/or 6s for sucess against the appropriate defense, or a difficulty level.

For example, assume your 'Attack' ability has a score of 5. You would roll 5 D6 against your opponents 'Defense' score of, let's say, 2. If you rolled a 5 on every D6, you suceed in hitting your opponent would take 3 damage to their HP.

Proficiencies: Proficiencies are like 'feats' in a d20 system. Just categories of situations where you can add extra dice to your roll for success.

----

Hopefully that's clear. Next up is Skills. Currently, the Knowlege Ability and your AP score defines how strong your skills can be. For example, If you attack with magic, you would roll your Knowledge Ability plus any extra power you grant it by spending AP. Add 1 D6 for every point of AP you spend. You can also buff/debuff other characters' Abilities, adding 1 D6 for every Knowledge point or AP spent.

You can increase the duration of a buff/debuff by spending AP (1AP per turn) or create an AOE effect/attack by adding AP (1 AP per space. )

You can also manipulate different energy types based on the above rules as well, but that's where I'm having a little difficulty. I need to find a good way to define the difference between those 5 elements. I could just assign a defense to each race based on their element which would increase damage or decrease defense when being attacked by that element, and I could also give access to a certain type of energy manipulation to each race. But what about practical effects like creating a wall with earth magic? Do they just pay AP for how large the wall is (basically paying the same as one would for an AOE?)

Any ideas/ crtiques/ suggestions you guys got would be cool. Here's the first page of a character sheet for reference. I left out the Equipment and Inventory page of the character sheet but if you have any questions about how those work feel free to ask.

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/2636/charsheettest1.png (http://img338.imageshack.us/i/charsheettest1.png/)

Bells
12-30-2010, 12:29 PM
Have you thought about taking a few cues from a couple of SRPG's ? I would suggest you checking the System behind Front Mission 3 and Final Fantasy Tactics, they translate well for Physical tabletop.

From FFT you could think of a simplified Magic and Abilities system, also Multiclass for Customization.

Also on FFT you have Passive and Active skills that you get from different classes, this provides some deep customization but also encourages your players to try and experiment new stuff and even adapt to missions, instead of always "playing the same thing that works"

From Front Mission 3, there is also the Skill system where you level it up the more you use. So each attack gives you XP on that skill. You also have Loadouts based on Weight, so teams are forced to specialize. As in, if you want to be able to heal and have great mobility, due to weight, you won't be able to carry much firepower. If you want to have a wide range of weapons for different situations, you might be forced to walk around with lower firepower cause Lighter weapons would also be weaker.

Those systems to force balance bring a ton of out-of-paper strategy and team thinking that could make it fun for a tabletop game

DarkDrgon
12-30-2010, 03:29 PM
maybe this is because I just started playing it, but this sounds a lot like exalted, mechanically

Krylo
12-30-2010, 05:44 PM
maybe this is because I just started playing it, but this sounds a lot like exalted, mechanically

In that you use dice?

On Topic: Tired today. Will try to look this over for you in the next couple days if I remember. I've thrown together some systems myself from scratch, so I get the scope of what you're doing.

I want a paycheck if you try to sell this thing, though.

DarkDrgon
12-30-2010, 11:21 PM
no, in that you have a point buy total that you have to split between your different abilities. it looked to me like exalted, without bonus points. Like I said though, it could be because i'm just getting involved with the system

Fifthfiend
12-31-2010, 12:04 AM
finding a good way for the different energy types (earth, wind, water, fire, ether)

Your energy types should be Blue, Fridays, Being a Jerk, and Pancakes.

The secret fifth element?

Dental Hygiene

Doc ock rokc
12-31-2010, 02:37 AM
finding a good way for the different energy types (earth, wind, water, fire, ether) to apply.

Earth is your standerd Armor/weapon breaker. Make it where earth spells/ablities do masive damage to defenses. earth would be the last thing you want to face with your good weapons and armor on.

Wind is Knockback/Multible hit ablities. Make wind spells throw targets around or smack them around like no tomarrow. this means wind users will be able to hit multible medume level attacks and maybe end with a pushback to make the enemy lose time.

Water is powerful armor bi-passer. Make water stuff hurt at least minorly though armor...maybe water users are better in tune with Steam powered machines as well. This should give them a edge

Fire should be the ultimite status inducer. make fire where the more something is Burned or heated up the more damage they take. Making Long drawn out fights with fire users devastating.

Finally ether should be tricks and mindgames. Have them deal devastatingly high damage that fades rather quickly away with time. Making them devistating unless you can prolong your fight. essentually they Trick people into dieing.

bluestarultor
12-31-2010, 12:41 PM
Earth is your standerd Armor/weapon breaker. Make it where earth spells/ablities do masive damage to defenses. earth would be the last thing you want to face with your good weapons and armor on.

Wind is Knockback/Multible hit ablities. Make wind spells throw targets around or smack them around like no tomarrow. this means wind users will be able to hit multible medume level attacks and maybe end with a pushback to make the enemy lose time.

Water is powerful armor bi-passer. Make water stuff hurt at least minorly though armor...maybe water users are better in tune with Steam powered machines as well. This should give them a edge

Fire should be the ultimite status inducer. make fire where the more something is Burned or heated up the more damage they take. Making Long drawn out fights with fire users devastating.

Finally ether should be tricks and mindgames. Have them deal devastatingly high damage that fades rather quickly away with time. Making them devistating unless you can prolong your fight. essentually they Trick people into dieing.

While that system is certainly interesting (saved for future reference, actually), Nique's system is still point-based and, last I checked, treated all elements as equally costly. Not that it couldn't work, but it might take a long time to balance right, depending on how long battles last. He's going turn-based, remember (unless that's changed?).

Your wind idea is great for that system. Earth seems overpowered, though. Rather than harm equipment, it might be better for it to break their stats, instead. That way he can fix the math more easily. Water as a secondary armor bypass seems a bit redundant. Rather, I think it might be better to introduce more crazy and annoying effects to it, like optionally spending additional turns to charge a spell, or creating temporary minion-style units, or other things you'd assume with, say, Magic's Blue cards.

Aether under that system is especially troubling, because if it starts strong and gets weaker, it encourages short battles and, when combined with fire, means that the party can simply hammer away with the big guns the whole battle, as the two taper in different directions. Rather, I think it might be a good place for healing, protection, and buffs.




Actually, Nique, from what you're saying, it sounds like you already have their functions worked out and just need math help. What I'd suggest is basing cost on range. D&D treats everything as tiles for a reason. Putting your spells on a grid will help give a better idea of how much they should cost. For your earth wall example, I'd say an initial cost for the base spell and a discounted additional cost for every additional square they want to cover. So maybe a cost of 3MP for a 3-square wall, with two squares being added onto the ends for an extra 1MP.

Nique
12-31-2010, 08:25 PM
Couple things from the OP - I noticed I still have Action Points labeled as MP, just in case that was confusing but it should have been 'AP'. Also the 'Charisma' ability was left abbreviated as 'Cha' which isn't to be confused with the 'CHA- Charm' stat.

I've thrown together some systems myself from scratch, so I get the scope of what you're doing.


It wouldn't be such a pain if I was more familiar with tabletop systems. As it is I am heavily relying on the input of more experienced players to refine this again and again. I'm pretty happy with how it's turned out so far, but there are loads of minor tweaks still needed so yeah I totally appreciate any input you have.

Your energy types should be Blue, Fridays, Being a Jerk, and Pancakes.


I like the idea of a breakfastmancer actually.

"I summon... waffles with a side order of bacon!" and your target takes a +5 to deliciousness .

(what doc ock rokc said)

I'm going to need to explore this a little to see if it fits well but these are really good categories, thank you.

Actually, Nique, from what you're saying, it sounds like you already have their functions worked out and just need math help.

Kind of opposite of that, actually. My concept for skills is that they are built on the fly with a very simple system where the cost is (mostly) determined already. The player should be able to have a set of pre-built skills, but can also make new ones by simply paying however much AP they can afford to add;
-power
-range or AOE
-duration
-buffs/ debuffs(p/ ability)
-create objects (paying for size, complexity, etc.)

There really isn't 'magic' in this system. It's more like I'm building a bending system with an extra element and buffs. But in it's current state the system is a little boring as it's just about overpowering your opponent by adding numbers. If I add elemental functions there is more room for strategy.

So I'm sort of just thinking/typing aloud here but Doc Ock suggestions could work, after a fashion, in that each element could roll against a different defensive ability for different effects
-Earth/Fire attacks could roll against Defense for damage,
-Wind could roll against Stamina to move opponents back without actually dealing damage
-Water could roll v. Speed to slow opponents down. Strong enough 'Water' attacks would be Ice attacks where opponents are frozen, perhaps?
-Ether ... Eh, I guess might go against 'Wit' and you could, just as an example, try to convince your opponent to run away or whatever?

Still some question about exactly how to implement those as far as how such skills take effect in non-combat situations, and also how to make the math work within the current skill system... Could allow GM to decide if there is a a penalty or advantage in certain situations. That might allow the element system to have a more natural feel where attacks are enhanced of penalized based n the environment or availability of the element.