LP Interest Thread - Twilight Imperium

[Azisien]

A good real life friend of mine is an avid collector of amazing board games, so I've had a pretty great time over the past two years playing some sweet ones. Smallworld, Power Grid, and Arkham Horror rank among my favourites for now.

And then I found Twilight Imperium.

http://crackeddice.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/TWILIGHT-IMPERIUM.jpg

Although Arkham Horror is AWESOME in a Lovecraftian, 1930s gangsters fighting unspeakable horrors sort of way, TI immediately became my favourite. Inside a month of playing it I decided to support this fantastic game and purchase my own.

The dilemma is that as a unit, my group of friends have the game already, and my purchase is slightly redundant (unless I play a lot of smaller games I suppose). However, I had the idea that maybe, just maybe, I could try spreading some Twilight Imperium love on NPF.

What Is Twilight Imperium, Really

Twilight Imperium is an epic sci-fi board game of conquest, trade, and political intrigue. The base game supports up to 6 players. There are 10 available races to choose from. The purpose of the main game is to acquire 10 Victory Points, which are achieved mainly through fulfilling Objectives. It is a turn based game, with each turn revealing a new Objective. For example, it may be "I control 6 planets outside of my Home System" with a reward of 1 Victory Point. There are also Secret Objectives each player gets that can only be revealed when they are completed.

So what do you actually DO in Twilight Imperium

You build spaceships. You build armies. You colonize planets. You fight off rebels. You avoid space hazards. You screw with your opponents. You research new technologies. You force sometimes ridiculous galactic laws to vote. You forge alliances. You break promises. You fulfill Objectives. You win! Orrrr more likely, you lose.

The first phase of the game is generating the Galaxy to play in. Every game is a little different because planets, empty space, hazards, and wormholes wind up being in different spots every time.

The second phase of the game is usually colonization to secure resources and political influence for your empire, and empire expansion. From game start you CAN do whatever you like though, including early aggression.

The third phase of the game usually winds up being a fight for Mecatol Rex. Over half of the Secret Objective cards, and some of the Public Objective cards, involve this once great planet. No matter how the Galaxy is configured at game start, Mecatol Rex is always at the center. It is the equivalent of Mass Effect's Citadel, the political center of the Galaxy, and in fact, owning it gives you a hell of a lot of political influence.

The fourth phase of the game is RULING THE GALAXY FOREVER HAHAHAHA!

Of course I am generalizing how these phases go based on my experience as a player. It could go any way as the players choose.

http://pics.killfile.org/events/GenCon2007/img_8525.jpg

So how is this going to work? This isn't a well known game, most of the players would be new

We learn! Learning is fun. I would be the pseudo-GM, and I probably won't be a perfect one. We all learn!

If there's genuine interest in this, I have a fair amount of preparation ahead of me. I will take a picture of every single card, unit, and token in the game so that I can easily image tag them both in the public thread and in private messages. I already have a camera. The majority of the game could be played, over much time, in the thread as if we were playing at a table, with players taking their turns and so on. Some of it will have to occur over PMs (including secret political pacts and assassination plots), because some game aspects are inherently secret.

Are you interested enough to consider?

If so, I found the 3rd edition rulebook online in easy PDF format (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/Twilight%20Imperium%203/ti3rules.pdf).

Or just like, post I guess. Ask questions if you have any, whatever.

[Melfice]

This sounds so interesting...
But at the same time, more than any board-game ever, it sounds like this should be played while sitting around a table. if you think it'll work, though...

Consider this a careful consideration.
I'll have to read through the rulebook first to see if it really appeals.

[Sage Harpuia]

Oh, another board game LP? Sounds fun, but...I'm not sure how it would fare in a Internet group format... pretty well I hope.

[Azisien]

Sadly this will never function as well as playing around a table. But there it is. I'd rather fumble through the Internet than pay all of your airfare!

I forgot to mention two important things:

a) I had a dream that I was playing Twilight Imperium last night at my dinner table with four other mysterious people. These people kept ignoring the rules of the game and making up their own as they went along, much to my pleading otherwise. I can only interpret this dream as extremely prophetic, and that there shall be exactly four players in this game!

b) I actually wasn't very clear on the number of players. Twilight Imperium allows three/B] to [B]six players. Less players means a shorter game, but a shorter game is less epic. So the minimum number of interested folks I need is three, and the maximum is six. Be more interested!

[Melfice]

a) I had a dream that I was playing Twilight Imperium last night at my dinner table with four other mysterious people. These people kept ignoring the rules of the game and making up their own as they went along, much to my pleading otherwise. I can only interpret this dream as extremely prophetic, and that there shall be exactly four players in this game!

Besides that... wanna call it quits right now?
If the 4 players bit will come true, then surely... :P

But seriously, I had a quick glance at the rules... awesome.
Lemme read more, and I'll get back at ya soon as possible for a definite answer.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Well, seeing as I'm soon to conquer all of earth* in the Risk LP, I'd be up for another epic board/forum game of epic warmongering. Never heard of the game though so I'll have to look over the rules when I have time.

My only concern, as others have said, is whether this will actualy work over a forum. It's been difficult enough keeping the Risk LP running smoothly and having players submit orders on time and whatnot and this sounds a lot more complicated.

But it'd be intersting to see it work.

*Yes, I am getting ahead of myself.

[Kerensky287]

Three things:

1) How often are we expected to report in? I can be available like, once or twice a day.

2) How certain are you that this will work in a forum setting? I've never played before so I don't know what'll be required, but from the looks of it you'll need like... high-resolution board shots, a billion photographs, and some way to roll dice that is reasonably uncheatable.

3) Will you actually be playing? You said pseudo-GM, and it just wouldn't seem fair for you to run this crazy old thing without even being able to wipe the floor with all the newbies.

I'm pretty interested in this, mark me down as a potential player please!

[Menarker]

I'm curious about this. I'm putting a placeholder just in case... Of course, I'm reading before I commit.

[Azisien]

Glad to see there's some interest. One question has been repeated multiple times but it's all bundled up nicely by Kerensky so I'll just answer his questions.

1) How often are we expected to report in? I can be available like, once or twice a day.

The game is traditionally played on a turn by turn basis, and I wouldn't want it any other way because how one player acts on one action may change another player's decision mid-round. So the reliance is not always on a single player to report in, just whoever's turn it is.

We're all busy people, so I understand not sitting on NPF hitting F5 all the time. If you are interested in playing, I think it's fair that we all be expected to show some decent attendance, otherwise the game will be spoiled for all.

2) How certain are you that this will work in a forum setting? I've never played before so I don't know what'll be required, but from the looks of it you'll need like... high-resolution board shots, a billion photographs, and some way to roll dice that is reasonably uncheatable.

I don't know if I can quantify my certainty but I feel confident enough to try this. If I knew this was a train wreck waiting to happen I wouldn't even consider it. I have some experience here as a player and as a host of RPs, and I think I can make this work.

As far as dice rolling goes, I think the uncheatable method will be that I roll everybody's dice. In the interest of this actually happening and absolutely preventing any way of cheating (I take $10 paypal bribes btw), it seems like the only way. With the way combat works in TI, I can do all the rolls for the combatants at once and simply announce them, allowing each side to distribute casualties. That's actually how it works anyway so conversion to a forum is easy.

3) Will you actually be playing? You said pseudo-GM, and it just wouldn't seem fair for you to run this crazy old thing without even being able to wipe the floor with all the newbies.

I hadn't actually considered playing myself, but I suppose I would if it would make for an even game. I feel like that probably isn't very fair though, and my goal here is to have fun with this awesome board game, not make some forum buddies feel butthurt. And by fairness I mean both my increased experience, but also because I will have that "by the table" view where you people will not.


As one idea for board wide photographs and such..I'll probably include those but only for dramatic effect mostly. If this goes through, I'll try to get a table that can handle a setup as the rule book recommends. The book suggests how to organize EVERYTHING in the game, and that will make it easier for you guys just starting out, because your setup will look identical to the diagrams in the rulebook.

So right now I've got...

Interested
Melfice
Sage Harpuia (??? Little unclear whether you're just interested in watching this or actually playing)
Hawk
Kerensky
Menarker

And that's already more than enough for a game. I'll let all of you get comfortable with the rules, and consider your interest more firmly, and if this is looking fairly good, I'll crack out my spare table and start getting ready.

[Menarker]

One thing comes to mind regarding the rules.

Specifically regarding Secret Objectives (which are pretty critical to winning the game). The rules state basically that no one may ever share the details of their Secret Objective card to another player, or they will lose that card and not be able to cash in on its benefits when/if it comes up.

However, in a forum setting, one can easily PM others the specifics and no one would be the wiser unless someone spills the beans.

The same is also true for other cards that should not be revealed such as Action cards.


Any thoughts of how you're going to deal with that? Otherwise, there is a strong possibility of people teaming up, sharing those otherwise secret details and collaborating to remove the other players from the board first.

[Azisien]

As I see it there are two options:

a) Honour system. As in we're all not total jerks that would cheat on a board game played on a forum, because come on!


b) The only, TRULY secret thing that I see are Secret Objectives. If people really do not want to adhere to an honour system, then Secret Objectives could be removed. The Age of Empire game mode gives enough Public Objectives to win a game without them.


Edit: Action Cards I don't see as vital for secrecy as Secret Objectives. It does ruin one type of Action Card (the "Show me your Action Cards" Action Card), but it's less devastating than having the Secret Objectives ruined. Unfortunately, I have no other workaround. Players need to see what they have, and that data does unfortunately become transmittable once it's on the net, one way or the other. We're all respectable players, though, right?

As for political scheming and secret alliances...hell...my group of friends have had more than one "private chat in the other room" to discuss unofficial pacts and plans. It's encouraged.

[Menarker]

I have no problem with secret alliances and all that when everyone has the same benefits/disadvantages for the rules. It's when/if the honor system doesn't work regarding the secret objectives and all that when I felt it might be an issue.

Are we employing any variant rules? Or playing a standard game?

[Azisien]

Game type is up to the players as much as it's up to me. I'm down for running any of the optional rules. I do strongly recommend running 'Distant Suns' regardless because it makes colonization so much more fun and unpredictable.

As mentioned, if there is genuine worry about a spoiling of Secret Objectives, which I DO also have a problem with, we can run 'Age of Empire' with a full hand of Public Objectives revealed at game start, so everyone knows what to strive for from the beginning.

'Long War' is cool, if only because it's just a slightly longer game.

And finally, using Leaders is pretty swell. I've only played one game with Leaders. It's still fun either way, but they add some extra bargaining chips, power, and variables to take into account for all.

[Menarker]

Ok. ^^


I don't see the Race stats in the guide. Would it be possible to present the data of them? (As well as action cards if I could ask). I like reading about these things in advance. :3


Heck, I'm starting to wonder if it would be possible to somewhat choose your race instead of getting it randomly. Like everyone make a list of the races they'd want to play listing it from races you'd like to play first most to finishing off with races you'd hate to play. If no one chooses your race (or at least not to the same degree), then you can get that race no problem.

[Azisien]

When we play, we get three races at random and can choose from those three. That seems fair to me. In a quick google I couldn't find the race stats but they might be out there.

If not I'll look into divulging their abilities tomorrow.

[Menarker]

I think I found them...




University of Jol Nar (http://dicecollecting.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/universities.jpg)

The Naalu Collective (http://www.zatrolene-hry.cz/galerie/52/743.jpg)

The L1z1x Mindnet (http://www.zatrolene-hry.cz/galerie/52/741.jpg)

The Mentak Coalition (http://www.zatrolene-hry.cz/galerie/52/738.jpg)

The Xxcha Kingdom (http://www.zatrolene-hry.cz/galerie/52/737.jpg)

The Yssaril Tribes (http://www.zatrolene-hry.cz/galerie/52/736.jpg)

The Emirates of Hacan (http://www.zatrolene-hry.cz/galerie/52/744.jpg)

The Sardakk N’orr (http://www.zatrolene-hry.cz/galerie/52/742.jpg)

The Federation of Sol (http://gmdice.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/federationofsol.jpg)

The Barony of Letnev (http://www.zatrolene-hry.cz/galerie/52/740.jpg)

[Melfice]

That Xxcha Kingdom?
Totally Krogans.

And the Hacan?
Totally Khajiit.

[Azisien]

Xxcha? Krogan? The Xxcha are a noble race of wise super turtles. In many circles they are considered one of the only races that can win the game without firing a shot.

[Melfice]

Fair enough.
I was mostly going by their looks. Hadn't really looked at anything else.

Fair warning, though. If I should end up with the Xxcha, they'll end up being Krogan.
If you look the part, you play the part. =3

EDIT: Note: don't make me end up as the Xxcha, and cripple myself like that.

[Azisien]

I have an idea for a Secret Objective replacement. We can play with the 'Age of Empire' variant with all the Public Objectives revealed, but the requirement to access Stage II Public Objectives (generally needed to reach 10-14 Victory Points) is to complete a PUBLIC Secret Objective in between Stage I and II, that I will draw from the Secret Objective deck.

Make sense? Seem like a decent workaround?



The other thing I was thinking was randomized Galaxy generation. And I will do all of the generating. If random generation creates obvious horrid imbalance, I can reroll. By far the hardest part to transfer to the forum will be the standard way of creating the Galaxy. I find that odd, too, because it's by far the fastest part of table play.

[Menarker]

Shouldn't we at least clarify how many players we have? (You said you didn't know whether we had 4 or 5 players, assuming you yourself aren't playing) Generation of the maps are different depending on how many players we got. It also effects how many strategy cards we get to pick each round.


As for your suggestion... let me clarify to see if I got you.

All players start the game being able to see what objectives will give them points.
However, the objectives have two tiers. Tier 1 and Tier 2.
Any player can gain points as normal if they accomplish a Tier 1 objective at any time.
However, a player cannot score points for Tier 2 objectives until they complete a "personal objective". That personal objective is public for all of us to see, but only that specific player can gain points from fulfilling it.
Once that PUBLIC Secret Objective (Personal Objective) is complete, that player has access to Tier 2 objectives as well.


Is that about right?


EDIT: Mainly trying to grasp my head around command counters. From the looks of it, we start off with 2 to strategic action, 3 to fleet and 3 to Command pool. Certain cards like Logistics grant you extra counters to put on your race sheet anywhere. But I'm confused with the fact that at the end of the turn, you remove the counters from the board. Then the next turn, you recieve two counters. And then you distribute your counters among your race card... Although your fleet supply also depends on how many counters you have on that section. (Having too many ships ends up making them destroyed)...

So I feel I read the rules wrong somewhere... Does removing the counters from the board not include the race sheets (such as fleet supply)? Can unused command counters be saved for future rounds?

[Azisien]

Shouldn't we at least clarify how many players we have? (You said you didn't know whether we had 4 or 5 players, assuming you yourself aren't playing) Generation of the maps are different depending on how many players we got. It also effects how many strategy cards we get to pick each round.

Mainly just thinking on here. I'm not actually starting anything until I get more solid player confirmations.


As for your suggestion... let me clarify to see if I got you.

All players start the game being able to see what objectives will give them points.
However, the objectives have two tiers. Tier 1 and Tier 2.
Any player can gain points as normal if they accomplish a Tier 1 objective at any time.
However, a player cannot score points for Tier 2 objectives until they complete a "personal objective". That personal objective is public for all of us to see, but only that specific player can gain points from fulfilling it.
Once that PUBLIC Secret Objective (Personal Objective) is complete, that player has access to Tier 2 objectives as well.

Yes. The way Age of Empire works is described by your opening statement. I prepare a randomly shuffled deck of Stage I and Stage II Public Objectives and line them up in a row. From game start, once per turn, players can claim Stage I Objectives in the Status Phase. This is where I change it now. Normally, AoE states that on the third turn, players may also start claiming Stage II Objectives, and play goes on until there's a winner.

The change I made simply adds one of the Secret Objectives in there, now public, as a requirement to progress to Stage II Objectives. This is crucial because Victory Point handouts increase significantly in Stage II, and its doubtful the game can be won with just Stage I Objectives. This removes the secrecy of the Secret Objectives, but it keeps their difficulty. Yes, SOs are usually more difficult and often necessitate war.

EDIT: Mainly trying to grasp my head around command counters. From the looks of it, we start off with 2 to strategic action, 3 to fleet and 3 to Command pool. Certain cards like Logistics grant you extra counters to put on your race sheet anywhere. But I'm confused with the fact that at the end of the turn, you remove the counters from the board. Then the next turn, you recieve two counters. And then you distribute your counters among your race card... Although your fleet supply also depends on how many counters you have on that section. (Having too many ships ends up making them destroyed)...

So I feel I read the rules wrong somewhere... Does removing the counters from the board not include the race sheets (such as fleet supply)? Can unused command counters be saved for future rounds?

Command counters are a bit of a weird concept so this explanation will hopefully be useful for everyone.

You're right on for the first part, everybody starts with 2 to Strategy Allocation, 3 to Fleet Supply, and 2 to Command Pool. Some racial abilities also give a permanent bonus.

The only command counters that actually end up on the board are from Command Pool, to activate systems. If you spend Strategy Allocation counters, we just toss them back into our reinforcement pool. Let's say on the first turn you spend your 2 Command Pool counters activating two systems. You also spend a Strategy Allocation to use a secondary ability on someone's Strategy Card.

At the end of the round, the 2 counters come off the board so they can be activated again next round. You don't get these back. You spent them. They go back into your reinforcements. You also, always, get 2 counters back from your reinforcement pool that you can distribute freely. Actually, in the Status Phase you can shuffle your command counters however you want. But in that turn you spent 3 counters total, and you only get 2 back, hence why Logistics is extremely valueable unless you ration your counters extremely well.

Let's say, in a super simple scenario, you start a game with your 2/3/2 command counter setup. You pass. Next turn you get 2 command counters from reinforcements, so you've got a total of 9 command counters to distribute as you see fit. You could have 6 Fleet Supply, 2 Command Pool, and 1 Strategy Allocation, or any other mix. But it's always a balance: if you go over fleet supply you immediately lose excess ships. If you have no Strategy Allocation counters, you can't use strategy card secondary abilities or certain racial abilities. If you have no command pool counters, you can't activate systems and do...much of anything.

To directly answer your last question, you do not HAVE to spend command counters. You can pick Logistics and hoard them, if you wish. Having a hoard of them allows for a lot of late-game maneuvering, in fact.

Does that help at all? Seems like more of a rant now that I look at it.

[Menarker]

It did help. ^^

Considering they are like the Mana of "Magic the Gathering" and thus pretty much drive the entire game mechanics, I'm sure it will help the others too.

My only concern that I had with your proposed method for dealing with Secret Objectives is that players could try to gang up on other players preventing them from achieving their secret objectives and thus lock them out from Tier 2 points. However, I imagine that interfering with enemy resources is a huge part of the game to begin with.


I assume that fleet supply means how many ships are in any one specific zone at a time? I was just wondering because we start the game with 3 command counters to fleet supply and all races start with a number of ships which exceeds 3

[Azisien]

My only concern that I had with your proposed method for dealing with Secret Objectives is that players could try to gang up on other players preventing them from achieving their secret objectives and thus lock them out from Tier 2 points. However, I imagine that interfering with enemy resources is a huge part of the game to begin with.

Well, I suppose that's true. I'm also not sure if it's a problem! Most SO's are aggressive anyways, and require folks to attack other folks. As far as people ganging up, I guess it's possible but that's why you bribe better than the next person.


I assume that fleet supply means how many ships are in any one specific zone at a time? I was just wondering because we start the game with 3 command counters to fleet supply and all races start with a number of ships which exceeds 3

Yes, fleet supply is the maximum number of ships you can have in one system at a time. This doesn't count ships moving through a system as part of a tactical or transfer action.

Space Docks, Ground Forces, PDS Units, and Fighters do not count towards Fleet Supply. I don't believe any race breaks 4 ships beyond that, unless they have a racial ability allowing for 4 fleet supply to start.

[Menarker]

Space Docks, Ground Forces, PDS Units, and Fighters do not count towards Fleet Supply. I don't believe any race breaks 4 ships beyond that, unless they have a racial ability allowing for 4 fleet supply to start.

Oooh, that is good to know. I was under the impression that only Fighters didn't count. It seemed odd.

Good to know. :3

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Ok so I've read through all of the rules and yeah, this game is seriously complicated, or at least it sounds it. BUT, if you think you can make it work then I am totally down for it. I'm sure it'll be easier to learn once we start playing.

I did notice 1 thing though that confused me, regarding the Imperial Strategy card; its primary ability gives the player choosing it 2 victory points automatically. I wonder what is to stop a player from choosing this card multiple times in a row and quickly acruing a ton of victory points? Obviously if someone did that then they would be forfeiting the ability to tech up, move, attack, build and trade, which yeah could easily cripple them early on, but then I notices that there is a Game Over card, which immediately ends the game.

So is it possible for a person to just keep choosing the Imperial card, scoring 2 victory points a time and hoping to quickly hit the game over card to easily end the game? Or am I mis-reading something there?

[Melfice]

After I update the Risk LP tomorrow, I'll take the afternoon off to read through the rules for serious.

Anything I don't figure out by then... well, I didn't really understand the board game Pandemic either, until I played it.
As you said, we'll learn as we play.

Consider me in, period.

[Azisien]

I did notice 1 thing though that confused me, regarding the Imperial Strategy card; its primary ability gives the player choosing it 2 victory points automatically. I wonder what is to stop a player from choosing this card multiple times in a row and quickly acruing a ton of victory points? Obviously if someone did that then they would be forfeiting the ability to tech up, move, attack, build and trade, which yeah could easily cripple them early on, but then I notices that there is a Game Over card, which immediately ends the game.

So is it possible for a person to just keep choosing the Imperial card, scoring 2 victory points a time and hoping to quickly hit the game over card to easily end the game? Or am I mis-reading something there?

In a word, yes. That is, yes, they could do that. The Speaker chooses the Strategy Card first, and the Initiative Card handles who the Speaker is from round to round. If everyone else playing let them, someone could indeed sit there and choose Imperial, or Imperial/Initiative, until they win the game.

I haven't gotten to the stage of proposing my EXTENSIVE (like 2) list of house rules yet, because everybody is still in the stages of absorbing the base rules for the first time. One of my proposals will be that the Imperial Strategy Card only grants 1 Victory Point. The other is that is grants 1 Victory Point and allows the primary holder to utilize the secondary ability.

Once players are finalized, and it looks like we're nearing that point, I'll do more official voting on all kinds of game options, house rules, etc.

As a more general response to your concern, Strategy Card spam is pretty much just a part of the game, and something you need to be prepared for. It can be stopped, one way or the other, in all the cases I've seen thus far. Letting someone spam Imperial is almost as bad as letting someone spam Technology, because there's some pretty frightening technologies available.

Folks Who Are Super Duper Committed To Playing

Menarker
Melfice
Hawk


Waiting on confirmation from Kerensky and Sage. There's also room for one more, and I'm considering only the above three positions SECURE, for anyone else with their eye on a spot. As it stands its looking like a 3-5 player game.

[Menarker]

@Hawk: Regarding the Imperial Card, there is one particular counter.

The Initative Strategy card.

You see, the order for choosing strategy card starts from the player who has the speaker token. Then moves leftward from that person on. Getting the Initiative card grants you the speaker token and thus gives that person the chance to grab Imperial next turn for sure. So, assume that the person who goes first chooses Imperial for a cheap gain of 2 victory point. Then the next person down the line REALLY wants Imperial, they can choose Initiative and be sure to get Imperial next turn.

But since that card can't be chosen twice in a row, the person to the left of that new speaker can take that Initative card and then get the chance to choose Imperial next round. The cycle then continues, giving the first pick to leadership and subsequently Imperial to the next person down the line to the left every round.

Of course, the cycle can break or be switched around a bit if someone chooses a different card.

EDIT: Got ninja'ed! (Although I added a bit more to the matter I think.)

[Sage Harpuia]

Alright, I'm "officially" part of this, hopefully I will have enough time to give the rules a thorough read. I believe I should have sufficient amount of understanding by.... the 4th or 8th visit to the washroom.

[Kerensky287]

Count me in as official too, I'll read the rules tomorrow when I'm not super-exhausted.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Yeah, I figured that be how it would work. I guess we'll all just have to gang up on card spammers, or at least Imperial card spam anyway, cos that sounds really cheap that one.

Another thought; is there a better version of the tech tree from the rules? That's one's a little hard to read. And also, am I right in thinking most of the differences in races are contained in the upper boxes on each sheet? I can't quite tell if unit prices and stats are different at all.

EDIT; oh yeah, one more thing, that picture in the OP; A twelve player game??!! Holy fuck!

[Menarker]

Actually, max amount of players is 6, although there are 10 races. Not including the expansion (which this isn't)


Guess we only need one more player to have a full game.



Here is a easy to read although simplified version of the tree chart.

http://www.mts.net/~meowchow/Vanilla_ISCream/technology.jpg

[Azisien]

Tested the camera out some more. Things are looking good. Table is setup.

This can simmer for a little bit while folks get caught up on the rules. Mastery is not necessary, we learn as we go of course. I'll post some stuff you can all vote on in terms of game setup, house rules, what not.

I reckon we also need table position, so I'll just use whoever posted first as a starting point.

Hawk if you are still concerned about Imperial, consider this as well: a lot of public objective cards require that you've built up your empire in other respects as well. While I agree that spamming Initiative/Imperial caused an issue with our group, the house rule we have going has ceased any issue. Or just gank the bastard.

Edit:

Well let's just actually test...

Test complete!

[Menarker]

A question/request if I may.

When you randomly give us 3 races to choose from or so, would it be possible to provide the Home Planet Systems that belong to those races respectively?
Apparently each race has their own particular set of planets with their own degree of influence and resource generation, and that will have an influence in how we play the game and thus influence which one we might choose.


Made a special chatroom for use for this RP here!

http://edupad.ch/OZ0AeMUKWy


Basically, anything that we want to discuss or just chat about publicly can be done in that link. Private stuff naturally can be done in PMs.

[Azisien]

A question/request if I may.

When you randomly give us 3 races to choose from or so, would it be possible to provide the Home Planet Systems that belong to those races respectively?
Apparently each race has their own particular set of planets with their own degree of influence and resource generation, and that will have an influence in how we play the game and thus influence which one we might choose.

That sounds fair, yes.

[Menarker]

Good News Everyone!

I found a link which has a sample step by step run-through of the game (played with three players).

http://www.preeminent.org/steve/games/ti3/ti3demo/3-player/home/index.shtml


So basically, you can read that if you to get an example of the game's mechanics in sequential step by step order.

I'm on the pad now if you want to chat btw.

[Gregness]

If there's a spot still, color me interested.

[Azisien]

There is still a spot, and in fact, that was the last one. We now have a six player game, so epic-ness was just dialed to maximum!

Menarker, thanks for finding all the helpful links.
(Edit: I wish we could do that optimized choose 3 race selection. You'll all get your three at the same time though, I think. No reshuffles.)

And thus the fate of the Mecatol Rex Galaxy shall be decided by the actions of...

Melfice
Hawk
Menarker
Sagey H!
Kerensky
Gregness!

Some of you are ahead of others in terms of rules reading. Again don't get too worked up about knowing everything. I don't even have everything memorized. I'm going to be preparing some issues to vote on. It'll be like a practice vote in the actual game, sort of! Except there's no assassin action cards. Maybe.

[Menarker]

Some of you are ahead of others in terms of rules reading. Again don't get too worked up about knowing everything. I don't even have everything memorized. I'm going to be preparing some issues to vote on. It'll be like a practice vote in the actual game, sort of! Except there's no assassin action cards. Maybe.

QUICK! GIVE ME SOME HIGH INFLUENCE LAND TO EASILY ALLOW ME TO SWAY THE VOTES MY WAY!

=P

Voting in the game is effectively not on a 1 vote for 1 person scale. I imagine voting for the house-rules will be.

Looking forward to see what races I'll be offered.

We should probably decide the orders for who goes first and thus. (The first player does have the advantage of having the broadest range of all the rages to randomly be offered)

[Azisien]

A new page? Sweet. Here's some more WORD WALLS for you all.

Everybody playing can vote FOR or AGAINST the proposals below. You can also abstain from voting altogether if you don’t care.

HOUSE RULES PROPOSALS

Secret Objective Modification 1: There has been concern over the security of SO’s over the Internet. Out of the gates I trust all of you to not cheat, but NATURE ITSELF has clearly shown us that a minority will always cheat if there is something to be gained from it. Players will NO LONGER get Secret Objectives. Instead, there will be ONE OR MULTIPLE Secret Objective made Public. If we also play Age of Empire, ONE Secret Objective card will be a requirement to progress to Stage II Public Objectives. Once someone fulfills it, a new Secret Objective card will be drawn. FOR/AGAINST

Secret Objective Modification 2: Alternatively, SO’s are just plain gone. I will shuffle in extra Public Objective Cards to compensate for the potential Victory Point gap. FOR/AGAINST

We’re either implementing SO Mod 1 OR SO Mod 2, not both.

Advanced Fighter Nerf: Because anybody with a keen eye on the rules has already noticed these jerk units are so overpowered its madness. The house rule is this, and it is drawn from the change in the Shattered Empire expansion: Advanced Fighter units that go over capacity count against Fleet Supply. Capacity Units are Carriers, War Suns, Space Docks, and optionally Cruisers and Dreadnoughts.* FOR/AGAINST
*Why did I do this? We’ve had two games played so far where one player rolled 2-3 players easily because he was able to build up over 40 Advanced Fighters. The player may or may not have been me.

Imperial Strategy Card Modification: Primary ability only grants 1 Victory Point now, but the card holder may use the Secondary Ability. FOR/AGAINST

GAME OPTION PROPOSALS
These are official game options located at the back of the book. You can run none, any, or all of them if you want. The only one I strongly recommend is Distant Suns. Age of Empire also, technically, nerfs the Imperial Strategy Card because there is no drawing of Objective Cards.

Long War: 14 Victory Point game instead of 10. More Objective Cards available. Basically just longer: FOR/AGAINST

Age of Empire: All randomly shuffled Objective Cards are revealed at game start to everyone. Stage I Objectives are accessible immediately and Stage II Objectives are accessible after round 3: FOR/AGAINST

Distant Suns: Domain counters are placed on planets. They create hazards such as radiation and rebels in roughly equal proportion to positive findings like trade goods. Makes early colonization more interesting: FOR/AGAINST

Leaders: Each player gets 3 Leader tokens with various abilities based on Leader/Race. Adds extra flavour and strategic options: FOR/AGAINST

Sabotage Runs: Use the Force, Luke. A pop culture strategic option for assaulting War Suns with Fighters: FOR/AGAINST

CHANGES TO EXPEDIT GAME PLAY

Galaxy Creation (Board setup) is randomly* generated: FOR/AGAINST
*There is a chance of horrible imbalance. I can identify this, and I will re-roll accordingly.

There are order deadlines: We’ll be appreciable to people’s schedules, but if a player just disappears, there will be a call for order submission, followed by a warning. On strike three, that player automatically passes (this is particularly devastating): FOR/AGAINST

MISCELLANEOUS

Players must choose their table avatars! You must choose one franchise to represent you. You may also choose a character but I may not have it:
- Team Fortress 2
- Left 4 Dead
- StarCraft II
- Pokemon

Here’s an Empty Ballot!

House Rules

Secret Objective Modification 1: For/Against

Secret Objective Modification 2: For/Against

Advanced Fighter Nerf: For/Against

Imperial Strategy Card Modification: For/Against

Game Options

Long War: FOR/AGAINST

Age of Empire: FOR/AGAINST

Distant Suns: FOR/AGAINST

Leaders: FOR/AGAINST

Sabotage Runs: FOR/AGAINST

Expedited Gameplay Changes

Random Galaxy Generation: FOR/AGAINST

Order Deadlines: FOR/AGAINST (But I might just pass this automatically MWAHAHAHAHA)

Table Avatar

Pick your franchise from the available choices! You MAY also pick a specific character, but I have limited selection.

[Melfice]

House Rules

Secret Objective Modification 1: For

Secret Objective Modification 2: Against

Advanced Fighter Nerf: For

Imperial Strategy Card Modification: Against

Game Options

Long War: FOR

Age of Empire: FOR

Distant Suns: FOR

Leaders: FOR

Sabotage Runs: AGAINST

Expedited Gameplay Changes

Random Galaxy Generation: FOR

Order Deadlines: FOR

Table Avatar: Not entirely sure what you mean with this.
It's just pictures to go with your updates? So, instead of the Emirates of Hacan, there's the Emirates of Arcanines?
Or what?

[Azisien]

Table Avatar Clarification: As in the actual, physical object I'm going to use to denote who is who on my table. I guess this is entirely optional if you're happy with the race card. The Table Avatar will inevitably appear in many pictures of table-wide shots.

[Melfice]

In that case, I'd rather wait with choosing mine until I've seen which race I get.
If they fugly, I'll pick mine.

[Menarker]

House Rules

Secret Objective Modification 1: Against

Secret Objective Modification 2: For

Advanced Fighter Nerf: For

Imperial Strategy Card Modification: For


Game Options

Long War: AGAINST (Because games will already be longer with Imperial Card Nerf)

Age of Empire: FOR

Distant Suns: AGAINST

Leaders: FOR

Sabotage Runs: AGAINST


Expedited Gameplay Changes

Random Galaxy Generation: FOR

Order Deadlines: FOR

Table Avatar

Pokemon is fine for me. Does it have to be a specific pokemon or do I just say Pokemon in general? (If a specific one is needed, I'm great with Swampert)

[Azisien]

Emirates of Arcanines...man...Here I thought I had a cool idea back there, and then it just gets blown right out of the water. I wish I had Photoshop skills.

[Menarker]

BTW, I linked the Twilight Emperium Chatroom in my signature.

So you guys can join in and chat or leave messages in that chat. :3

[Sage Harpuia]

House Rules

Secret Objective Modification 1: For

Secret Objective Modification 2: Against

Advanced Fighter Nerf: For

Imperial Strategy Card Modification: For

Game Options

Long War: AGAINST

Age of Empire: FOR

Distant Suns: AGAINST

Leaders: FOR

Sabotage Runs: AGAINST

Expedited Gameplay Changes

Random Galaxy Generation: FOR

Order Deadlines: FOR

Table Avatar
Starcraft II seems to be the most appropriate... or the most boring.

[Gregness]

House Rules

Secret Objective Modification 1: For

Secret Objective Modification 2: against

Advanced Fighter Nerf: For

Imperial Strategy Card Modification: For

Game Options

Long War:AGAINST

Age of Empire: FOR

Distant Suns: FOR

Leaders: FOR

Sabotage Runs: AGAINST

Expedited Gameplay Changes

Random Galaxy Generation: FOR

Order Deadlines: FOR

Table Avatar: Of those you listed, something terran from Starcraft II would be best I think.

[Menarker]

Just tallying up the votes so far... (Deleted post and updated)

Some of the rules have gotten Majority Votes (4 out of 6)



House Rules

Secret Objective Modification 1:
For: 3
Against: 1

Secret Objective Modification 2:
For: 1
Against: 3


Advanced Fighter Nerf:
For: 4
Against: 0

Imperial Strategy Card Modification:
For: 3
Against: 1


Game Options

Long War:
For: 1
Against: 3

Age of Empire:
For: 4
Against: 0

Distant Suns:
For: 2
Against: 2

Leaders:
For: 4
Against: 0

Sabotage Runs:
For: 0
Against: 4


Expedited Gameplay Changes

Random Galaxy Generation:
For: 4
Against: 0

Order Deadlines:
For: 4
Against: 0


The following will presumably be approved if we have one more vote in the same manner:
Secret Objective Modification 1: (3 for)
Secret Objective Modification 2: (3 against)
Imperial Strategy Card Modification: (3 for)
Long War: (3 against)


MAJORITY VOTE:
Advanced Fighter Nerf: (4 for)
Random Galaxy Generation: (4 for)
Order Deadlines: (4 for)
Age of Empire: (4 for)
Leaders: (4 for)
Sabotage Runs: (4 against)


Azisien, should I presume that you will be the tie-breaker if we end up with a 3-3 tie and no one changes their mind?

[Azisien]

Yes, I am the all-powerful tie breaker. I have the Speaker token at the moment.

[Kerensky287]

The following will presumably be approved if we have one more vote in the same manner:
Secret Objective Modification 1: (3 for)
Secret Objective Modification 2: (3 against)
Imperial Strategy Card Modification: (3 for)
Long War: (3 against)

Secret Objective Mod 1: FOR

Secret Objective Mod 2: AGAINST

Imperial Card Mod: FOR

Long War: AGAINST

And the only one that's up in the air:

Distant Suns: FOR


Table Avatar: Team Fortress 2 is cool. Do you have, like, characters or something? My top 3 preferred would be Pyro, Scout and Medic, in that order.

[Menarker]

The following Mods have been decided on and will presumably be implemented!

Secret Objective Mod 1
Imperial Strategy Card Modification
Advanced Fighter Nerf
Age of Empire
Leaders
Random Galaxy Generation
Order Deadlines



The only thing that needs to be decided is

Distant Suns:
3 For
2 Against

If Hawk votes for Distant Suns, it'll be implemented. If not, it is a tie and the choice is left up to our GM.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Damnit, you guys would have to vote on everything while I'm asleep and then in college all day wouldn't you?!

Well I may as well just vote FOR on Distant Suns then, because Azisien seems to like it so even if it was a tie he'd probably still vote FOR anyway.

So I guess that's that.

[Azisien]

You are a wise Hawk.

I will begin final preparations. I expect to begin within the week.

Table Avatar: Team Fortress 2 is cool. Do you have, like, characters or something? My top 3 preferred would be Pyro, Scout and Medic, in that order.

I think you will be quite pleased!


EDIT: For those of you still feeling insecure about the rules, again don't worry about it, but I strongly recommend reading the 3-player tutorial game that Menarker posted earlier in the thread. It's very in-depth.

[Menarker]

^^ Yes, it is a good help.

However, the guide is less of a guide and more of a step by step procedure of the game that a group of players have played and at a few steps down the line, the players have made some game mistakes and the guide mentions those mistakes down the line. ^^; Hey, players make mistakes sometimes and even the GMs miss them.

So while it is a good help, it might be a better idea to read the entire guide so you aren't just looking at a certain section and getting the wrong idea.

[Kerensky287]

You are a wise Hawk.

I will begin final preparations. I expect to begin within the week.



I think you will be quite pleased!


EDIT: For those of you still feeling insecure about the rules, again don't worry about it, but I strongly recommend reading the 3-player tutorial game that Menarker posted earlier in the thread. It's very in-depth.

:D

Thanks a lot, by the way. I hope this ends up being worth all the effort you're putting into it! Very magnanimous. Hopefully it'll end up being at least somewhat enjoyable for you to run this complex game online for 6 complete strangers.

EDIT: Also thanks Menarker who has been awesome for the extra-credit stuff like posting tutorials and creating a chatroom. You guys rock. For comparison I still haven't even read the rules yet... bluh. I'll do it on Friday because that'll be my first free day in a little while.

[Menarker]

Glad I could help. :knowledge:


Pssttt... it's entirely possible, plausible and even encouraged to bribe your other team-mates if you're in a tough spot... especially if they were thinking of attacking you. *Hint Hint*

:D

[Azisien]

Well hopefully everyone had a chance to look at the rules. I'm starting to set up the game table for our six players. Looking to get underway early to the middle of this week, because this will be a looooooong game.

My GOAL is to organize everything as it's recommended in the rules handbook, for easier viewing for you folks. But my table is of finite size, so we'll see how that actually pans out.



I suppose I should do race selection before the game starts. I'll do that last. Be prepared to choose from your 3 randomly drawn races, everyone!

[Melfice]

For the finite table size problem... couldn't you get a binder with those transparent sleeves?
Store everything that isn't on the board, but in-game, in there and take it out of the binder when you need it. Every player gets it's own sleeve.

Not entirely sure how useful that suggestion is, but it's something that just immediately sprang to mind.

[Azisien]

I actually don't think I own a binder, or transparent sleeves...

Unless you're talking about the ones that currently hold my FIRST EDITION full set of Pokemon Cards, in which case, over my dead, irradiated body!

I think I can make it fit. Yes. I hope this. Really I do.

Edit: Whoa, I just realized I can't do Draw 3 Random Races with six players and only ten possible races (without taking forever). Um...

So I think everybody is just getting dealt a race.

[Melfice]

Unless you're talking about the ones that currently hold my FIRST EDITION full set of Pokemon Cards, in which case, over my dead, irradiated body!

Lawl pokeymanz. reel guis play magik lolololol

No, but, fair enough. It was just a suggestion. Not even sure if it'd work at all.

[Azisien]

There will be huge success. I have conscripted half of a nearby table to act as the Common Play area. That leaves enough room on the main table for six players and the Galaxy.

More Important Crap

- Races have been drawn, pictures to follow.
- Galaxy has been created, pictures to follow.
- Speaker has been selected.
- Temporary "seating" order has been selected via rolling* initiative a la D&D (after all, the fastest person to run over to the table wins!)
*This was an interesting omen. Melfice and Menarker tied their rolls four times in a row.

What do I mean by temporary seating order? The Speaker (highest roller) will choose the location of his/her Home System first. After that, it will proceed clockwise around the table, with the remaining five players choosing their Home System location. This will decide the final seating positions for the rest of the game.

And again, pictures to follow soon enough.

[Menarker]

*This was an interesting omen. Melfice and Menarker tied their rolls four times in a row.


Clearly either we're fated to become great rivals, or the two of us are actually one and the same and thus should be sharing the same seat!

:3

Being dealt a race makes me feel nervous given how some of them really don't appeal to me. Also, randomly being assigned a class for the duration of an entire game I never played before makes me twitch nervously. ^^;

If it helps out, I got a list of races I'm more or less happy to have...


The L1z1x Mindnet

University of Jol Nar

The Xxcha Kingdom

The Naalu Collective

The Emirates of Hacan

The Barony of Letnev


The others... don't appeal to me that much somehow.

[Azisien]

Hey look at it this way you've got almost a 50% chance of getting the race you want!

Edit: Also let's watch it with the racism here okay. I know the Mentak all look the same but there's no reason to be hatin'. :p

[Menarker]

60% to be precise. ^^

>_> Although it's the other 40% that I take issue with. =P


Hehe, ah well. I'll see what comes up.

I'm on the pad now if you wanna chat. :3

[Gregness]

If we're looking to start middle of the weekish, be aware that I have all my classes on tuesday and thursday and so I may not get my responses in if we update on those days.

[Azisien]

If we're looking to start middle of the weekish, be aware that I have all my classes on tuesday and thursday and so I may not get my responses in if we update on those days.

No huge problem. Updates will be rather fantastically slow anyways, because each person whose turn is up needs to submit them, then there needs to be at least a short grace period for Action Card play (not first turn, but...), and then I need to update with pictures of the INTENSE ACTION. I mean the plus side is at least on MY end, I'm on here like every day, and I can even access it at work.

This is going to be a long haul. Hopefully long and awesome.

[Melfice]

Clearly we [...] should be sharing the same seat!

:3

I didn't know you felt that way about me, sweetcheeks. <3

;)

[Menarker]

:3

Anyhow, based on the conversation I had in the pad...


Gregness - Mentak - SPEAKER
Melfice - L1z1x
Menarker - Naalu
Hawk - Yssaril
Kerensky - Jol-Nar
Sage H - Xxcha


Azisien is just trying to get pictures of the board as best as he is able (he is having a little trouble with data size and hosting issues.)

[Azisien]

I should have everything figured out by tonight, but do I start a new LP on Valentine's Day?!?!

[Melfice]

Oh, man.
I really need to get back to reading that manual. >__>
I was banking on the owner of the local comic / game store having a copy of the manual for me, as a paper one is easier to read... so I kinda put it off.

No worries, though. I'll catch up.

EDIT: Also: L1Z1X Mindset?
I can live with that. Oh, yes indeed.

[Gregness]

Hmm, y'know I was really wanting the federation of Sol, but upon a second glance, the mentak's seem pretty rad. They have 2/3 prerequisite technologies for War Sun's and the trade good stealing I guess amounts to space piracy? That's pretty kickass.

[Kerensky287]

The Jol-Nar are pretty awesome, actually. When I saw the picture I went eww, fish people. But I can shoot up the tech tree twice as fast as anybody, and I can reroll dice WITH MY BRAIN. All at the cost of getting my ass kicked every combat. But whatever, I can live with that!