Talking about Mass Effect 3 With Spoilers [Archive]

Bells

03-01-2011, 04:49 AM

So, i finally finished Mass Effect 2. Full paragon, everyone saved. Feeling really proud about it too! Great game, awesome story and it manages to make you feel epic about your actions...

I couldn't help but notice all the subtle hints from ME2 that lead right into ME3, maybe i don't have the full picture here, but let us brainstorm anyways...

So, i ended up romancing Tali. It was teh easiest Conversation tree ever, the girl was pratically tossing herself at me! The game makes it quite clear that Tali is your Paragon romance... Miranda and Jack... i'm kinda mixed about it. One of the mis your "Neutral" or "Mixed" Romance, and the other is your Renegade romance. Not sure about which one is which if you look ahead... All the other seem like Flavor text to me...

Now, ME3 is the last one, and they seem to be making the transfer from ME2 into a much bigger deal than it was in ME1... still early to see how that plays out, but there are some obvious things...

I mean, it's clear Cerberus is evil, or at least misguided. They will turn on you, you will fight them. Shepard is heading to Earth and my Bet is that Cerberus gets there first and turns the people Agaisnt Shepard with propaganda, calling him an Alien Synpathizer.... not a stretch considering all the aliens he Sympathize with...

With that on note, i would bet Miranda turns on you too... but not Jacob. And at that point your relationship with her on ME2 probably has a lot of Weight to it.

The game is likely to have you Collecting allies in the Galaxy and then heading for earth where you'll probably jump around from major city to major city. London and New York are almost certain. You can bet tehre will be a "Jungle Level" and a "Snow Level" and a Desert one on earth... so i'm betting South America, Russia and Africa for that.

On your current team, i wouldn't be surprised if some died. New teammates need to join, afterall... My guess is with Mordin and Thane going out first. Than is already dying (and that loose end never gets tied on ME2) and Mordin has solved all his issues. Or maybe he just won't be on the field anymore...

It might be just a hunch, but i would give Legion more exposion on the next game, i just think there is something to the fact that he holded on to Shepard's old armor.

Garrus and Grunt i would imagine that will stay around...

The fact that you can Romance Thane, and that he is Dying is just another indicator for me that You will loose one romantic interst early on. So if you romanced Miranda or Thane on ME2, that would have tragic consequences on ME3 (so maybe Miranda will die too)

I would say your team from ME1 would return in the "first arc" of the game, helping Shepard getting his allies, but i would not expect the Romance from ME1 to carry any effect beyond Dialog on ME3.

Considering that EDI is now "On Shepard's Side" and at the same time, She has become the Normandy.. i would Suggest that Cerberus tries to reclaim your Ship by remotely controlling her (maybe that would be the point where Miranda Betrays shepard), and that Joker manages to make EDI break free from Cerberus entirely, giving you your ship back.

All and all, you can see the picture of ME3 forming on the Horizon... not a lot of Surprised but the quality is always high so i have big hopes for this one. I'm keeping my ME2 Save and see what happens now.

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

03-01-2011, 06:35 AM

I did things a bit differently...

Renegade Femshep, no romancing, Legion, Samara and the entire Normandy crew dead. I have a save ready to go back and save them, but I duno if I want to; this way I have to live with the consequences.

I'm not sure how they're going to do things in ME3 though, having Earth invaded right from the start and then leaving you to piss about all over the galaxy rallying every other race sounds wierd and would throw the pacing off. And anyway weren't the Reapers supposed to take a looooong time to reach the galaxy from dark space; hence why they needed the Citadel relay in the first game to get back?

And I don't see Cerberus turning against you, I made it pretty clear to TIM that I'm running the show now and he's been relegated to giving me info, not orders.

It'll be interesting to see how they do the next game though.

Arhra

03-01-2011, 06:53 AM

Legion romance option.

Make it so, Bioware!

Toast

03-01-2011, 06:59 AM

So, i ended up romancing Tali. It was teh easiest Conversation tree ever, the girl was pratically tossing herself at me! The game makes it quite clear that Tali is your Paragon romance... Miranda and Jack... i'm kinda mixed about it. One of the mis your "Neutral" or "Mixed" Romance, and the other is your Renegade romance. Not sure about which one is which if you look ahead... All the other seem like Flavor text to me...

If you're making renegade choices, the romances tend not to end well. Also, I never really saw the choices as being tied to a particular alignment in a more abstract way. Especially for a female Shepard who has the choice between Jacob, Thane, and Garrus.

Now, ME3 is the last one, and they seem to be making the transfer from ME2 into a much bigger deal than it was in ME1... still early to see how that plays out, but there are some obvious things...

Let's hope so.

I mean, it's clear Cerberus is evil, or at least misguided. They will turn on you, you will fight them. Shepard is heading to Earth and my Bet is that Cerberus gets there first and turns the people Agaisnt Shepard with propaganda, calling him an Alien Synpathizer.... not a stretch considering all the aliens he Sympathize with...
That's an interesting idea, I hadn't thought of that. I'm really hoping that we get the opportunity to track down and confront Cerberus in me3.

The game is likely to have you Collecting allies in the Galaxy and then heading for earth where you'll probably jump around from major city to major city. London and New York are almost certain. You can bet tehre will be a "Jungle Level" and a "Snow Level" and a Desert one on earth... so i'm betting South America, Russia and Africa for that.
I seriously hope not. Not only do I want me3 to not be an ally fetch quest like Dragon Age, we already kind of went there in me2, just on a smaller scale. I also really hope that there's more to the plot than just saving earth. The last reaper invasion took more than a hundred years, I hope we have the chance to fight them on many of the major inhabited worlds.

On your current team, i wouldn't be surprised if some died. New teammates need to join, afterall... My guess is with Mordin and Thane going out first. Than is already dying (and that loose end never gets tied on ME2) and Mordin has solved all his issues. Or maybe he just won't be on the field anymore...
That's a possibility. I don't think Kasumi and Zaeed will be returning. I also agree that Mordin may not return. He is getting old for a salarian. It would suck, though, as he was the best new character in me2.

It might be just a hunch, but i would give Legion more exposion on the next game, i just think there is something to the fact that he holded on to Shepard's old armor.
I certainly hope so. Legion does have more to say about the geth in general after the suicide mission. At least, I've only been able to get him to say it after, but he doesn't say anything else about the armor.

Considering that EDI is now "On Shepard's Side" and at the same time, She has become the Normandy.. i would Suggest that Cerberus tries to reclaim your Ship by remotely controlling her (maybe that would be the point where Miranda Betrays shepard), and that Joker manages to make EDI break free from Cerberus entirely, giving you your ship back.
EDI was the weakest possible storytelling device they could have chosen, in my opinion. It was quite clear every time Shepard came across a situation that only EDI could resolve and I think that's poor storytelling. Kind of hoping that we get the opportunity to disconnect her so we can get the Normandy back. Unfortunately, I think we're stuck with her no matter what.

To elaborate on what I said before, I really hope that fighting the reapers is not limited to earth or the final mission of the game. I want to fight the reapers every step of the way, winning some battles, losing some planets.

I think the citadel would still be a major objective for the reapers, so I hope there's a significant amount of story there.

I'd also like some more variety in my enemies. In me2, there were no snipers, the only biotic power used (except by Tela Vasir) was warp. The only tech powers used were drone, incinerate, and tech armor.

I'd like one of those mercenary gunships, or something like it, for my planetary exploration vehicle. Both the mako and the hammerhead are too limited, why aren't we flying around these planets?

I'd like for there to be a mix of open explorable planets like me1 and straightforward planets like me2.

I'd like for the squadmates that you don't take with you to do more than stand around on the ship. I think you should be able to choose a specialist squad that has an effect on your mission. Who you choose determines what kind of effect that is. If Garrus is that squad leader, he sets up a sniper post and helps take down baddies. If Tali, she finds a way to hack their generators so it emits a pulse that drains their shields. Something like that.

I'd like for there to be more choices during armor customization. I'd also like for stats to be divorced from appearance. That is, for each armor piece to have a slot that can be upgraded with the same kind of bonuses that are already present in me2. There's no reason to bring back the tangled mess that was the me1 inventory.

Similarly, I hope weapons remain differentiated like in me2, but also hope they have an upgrade slot so that ammo types are no longer powers (did that ever make sense?) and they can come up with some more interesting powers for the classes.

What I'd also like to see, although it would probably never happen, is some class customization. Say I choose infiltrator. That would mean I get access to the infiltrator cloak and passive skill line, but my remaining 2-3 skills could be chosen by me from a pool of combat and tech skills. Pure classes like adept, engineer, and soldier wouldn't be able to access other skill types, but would have maybe 4 skills to choose.

Melfice

03-01-2011, 07:29 AM

Bells

03-01-2011, 01:52 PM

Regarding Miranda betraying you... I doubt it.
If you do her loyalty mission, you'll find out that when she gives out her trust, she's loyal to the end. This may cause a conflict with her, since she's very grateful to the Illusive Man, but outright betrayal I don't think she'll do.

I thought the same thing, but the gameplay itself took me in another direction. Cause i did Miranda's Loyalty mission, and then i did Jack's. That triggers their fight, and the only thing that made sense to me was to side with Jack, so i lost Miranda's Loyalty. Even though i pushed hard to get full paragon after that, i never got around to win her back. In the suicide mission, she didn't die, but i was with Samara and Tali all the time (or Tali and Legion, because my Sheppard is an Engineer and having 3 Drones in the field at the same time is fun and a LOT of help).

I just feel like the game is trying ot Emotionally bait you... i don't think Kelly is two faced, she likes Sheppard way too much (or is it a mask?) But i could see TIM finding a way to bend miranda over... Still, the game has a lot of ground for interpretation depending on how you play

to me the give away tha game tosses at you is that, the more you help Cerberus, the more Renegade points you get. There is a strong Paralel in helping Cerberus and all the violent and "evil" choices Sheppard can make. They are connected via the Renegade points... and it makes me ask "Renegade Against Whom?" i mean, the only major Players are Sheppard and Cerberus, everyone else is coming in from the sides.... so since i knew that ME3 was about earth, and how TIM wants Humanity to be above all... i just took Renegade as being "Renegade to Humanity". As in, i would see Cerberus wanting to dominate the galaxy via sheer force and manipulation.

Also, funny thing... you noticed how all sidequests are unique in their own way? My bet is that they are tied to ME3... you have the Missile one where you pick which place surives and which one does not. There is another way where you get a bunch of Secret documents about Cerberus and you can hand them over or keep it to yourself... and others, regarding saving planets and analyzing Shiwreck....

Also, there is a part of Tali's story that never gets explained.. the one about the Sun that is aging way too fast.

All choices connected to those are going into ME3, i would be.

I'd like for there to be more choices during armor customization.YES. Please i really need this. The game felt so very empty in that regard... half the armor you could get was Promotional stuff!! I had to make due with Changing the color of everything from mission to mission...

Solid Snake

03-01-2011, 02:13 PM

Man I think it would be awesome if Bioware threw an epic twist our way and had the mission to save Earth be the very first mission in the game. Like, Earth is struggling to hold off the Reapers, and then all the sudden the Normandy shows up, with a shitload of allies corresponding roughly with the kinds your Shepard was friendly with throughout ME2, and you're just sent straight into the action, and your entire ME2 cast leads separate Squads in different areas of Earth.

...I actually remember typing a similar message with a similar concept long before that ME3 trailer came out.

Let me see if I can dig it up.

EDIT: From 2/22/2010:

I was thinking about my "dream version" of ME3 and I came to the conclusion that I'd enjoy a cold open with Shepard defending a devastated Earth from a reaper attack, and with several alien factions (if you're paragon) or Cerberus (if you're renegade) assisting Shepard in defending other human cities. I'm not sure whether even a relatively brief jaunt on future-Earth would serve the Mass Effect "setting" (even though Earth clearly exists, and it's a clear first choice for a Reaper target assuming they know Shepard's species.) It'd be an intriguing way to immediately thrust the player into heavy-stakes action and a great way to immediately re-introduce tons of supporting characters who survived ME1 and ME2, though not as squadmates: if you played paragon, you could hear radio chatter about Clan Urdnot showing up and defending Beijing while a Geth task force led by Legion defended Cairo and Salarian special task forces were staving off the enemy in Paris while Ashley/Kaiden and Alliance forces were protecting the United Nations building in New York. The payoff of actually seeing the alien races you've helped assisting humanity would be freakin' sweet, and the intensity of listening to the radio chatter from tons of forces battling all throughout the planet we know and love would match the kind of intensity we saw in the microwave scene in MGS4.

And I'd actually prefer if the game skipped ahead and started there, with an initial Reaper invasion of Earth or something as the first target. You'd immediately be confronted with tough choices -- if you have squadmates from ME1 and ME2 who survived the suicide mission, one idea is you'd have to choose via radio communication (as Shepard would be the leader of the entire operation) whether to have some squadmates sacrifice themselves to destroy invading forces. Do you sacrifice their lives to protect cities and nations on Earth, or do you keep as many former squadmates and alien forces alive as possible, while potentially sacrificing Earth's habitability and turning humanity into a spacefaring race separated from a destroyed homeworld, like the Quarians?

(And how many characters survived the suicide mission could influence your available options, too. Entire cities that could be battlegrounds if some characters are kept alive could be sacrificed to the Reaper invasion if those characters were dead. Example: if Wrex survived ME1 he's alive and Clan Urdnot shows up with a Krogan task force to defend Beijing. If not, a Reaper succeeds in destroying Beijing and there's nothing you can do about it, at least one major city on Earth is out of the picture.)

And then you can get the Normandy 3 (Normandy 2 would be destroyed while attacking the invading Reaper at Earth or something) and the game would actually begin...

Kerensky287

03-01-2011, 03:40 PM

Solid Snake

03-01-2011, 03:58 PM

So exactly like Halo 2?

Which ended up being really disappointing because Earth has to be the climax, and everything inevitably ends up being downhill from there?

I've never played Halo 2, so I wouldn't know.

However, I think the alternative issue presented by "leaving Earth for last" is Dragon Age: Origins syndrome. You'll spend the game going to various factions, requesting aid, choosing between factions to enlist for the battle in Earth, etc. That sounds far more boring, standard, and cliche-ridden to me.

We could have a prologue that dealt with repelling an initial force of Reapers on Earth, then have the rest of the game concentrate on Shepard finding ways to prevent the main Reaper contingency from obliterating the galaxy.

Bells

03-01-2011, 04:58 PM

Well... mass effect 1 and 2 were pretty much "Gather these people ebfore the final suicide mission". More so on ME2, where that was pretty much the plot point... i don't think they will repeat a plot so clearly like that, specially since they showed that they can listen to their fanbase and improved a lot from ME1 to ME2...

If i were to bet, they just might take a page of Oblivion's book and have it be done "close the gates" style. As in, in the mid point you reach earth (which was pretty easy to reach on ME2 anyways...) and from that point on, you hop from space to earth gathering resources and freeing the major cities...

Probably Breaking into Earth's galaxy will be a mission on it's own

Solid Snake

03-01-2011, 05:03 PM

Probably Breaking into Earth's galaxy will be a mission on it's own

Insofar as the entirety of Mass Effect is restricted to the Milky Way galaxy, I would find this highly unlikely.

Breaking into the solar system, though, that would make an interesting chain of missions, if only because we could mess around stations circling Neptune or Saturn or something.

You know what really concerns me about Mass Effect 3, though?

I actually think the game is being released too soon.

...With most games I'd be perfectly satisfied with a slightly-less-than-two-year production cycle, but with ME3 I am like "I want ME3 to do so much shit and to be so context specific to the circumstances of my particular Shepard, and I want everyone from ME1 and ME2 to return, and I want a fair amount of returning and new characters, and I want fucking amazing Reaper battles. Bioware, take your goddamn time. I would much rather wait another year or two for the greatest game ever, which ME3 has a significant chance of being, then get an early crack at a fantastic game that still misses that mark."

EDIT: Like if Bioware was like "We'll make Mass Effect 3 the most amazing game you'll ever play, but it will come out in 2013 and cost $100 due to all the extra time and effort we'll invest in giving every ME1 and ME2 character and scenario adequate closure, or we'll just release the game this fall as planned, with whatever we finish by then making it in," you had better believe I am choosing the former option.
And not regretting it in the least.

Melfice

03-01-2011, 05:26 PM

Snake: As far as I'm aware, Bioware was already outlining the third game well before the second game even hit the store and started early development during the last few weeks before Mass Effect 2 went gold.

But to be fair, I could be talking shit, because try as I might, I can't find where I read that.

Bells: Yeah, I guess how to look at things really depends on how you played the game...
I'm simply assuming, for now, that the canon ME2 ending is a Paragon Shep, all allies loyal and the base destroyed.
We'll have to wait and see what the actual canon ending is when ME3 releases. (Or somebody from EA or BioWare lets this info slip.)

From what I heard, they're going all out, though, so it wouldn't surprise me that in your game Miranda DOES turn on Shep (assuming that'll be a plot in the first place) and in mine she won't.

bluestarultor

03-01-2011, 06:59 PM

Insofar as the entirety of Mass Effect is restricted to the Milky Way galaxy, I would find this highly unlikely.

Breaking into the solar system, though, that would make an interesting chain of missions, if only because we could mess around stations circling Neptune or Saturn or something.

You know what really concerns me about Mass Effect 3, though?

I actually think the game is being released too soon.

...With most games I'd be perfectly satisfied with a slightly-less-than-two-year production cycle, but with ME3 I am like "I want ME3 to do so much shit and to be so context specific to the circumstances of my particular Shepard, and I want everyone from ME1 and ME2 to return, and I want a fair amount of returning and new characters, and I want fucking amazing Reaper battles. Bioware, take your goddamn time. I would much rather wait another year or two for the greatest game ever, which ME3 has a significant chance of being, then get an early crack at a fantastic game that still misses that mark."

EDIT: Like if Bioware was like "We'll make Mass Effect 3 the most amazing game you'll ever play, but it will come out in 2013 and cost $100 due to all the extra time and effort we'll invest in giving every ME1 and ME2 character and scenario adequate closure, or we'll just release the game this fall as planned, with whatever we finish by then making it in," you had better believe I am choosing the former option.
And not regretting it in the least.

Really, though, thinking like this, if most of a game's budget and time goes to graphics, they pretty much have all those at this point.

Really, think about it. They already have the old and new textures for all the old party members and the textures for all the new party members, plus the Normandy 2, plus a ton of worlds. What more do they need? FFX-2 was cranked out in, what, two years using the resources from X? And look at all the graphics they added with that!

In this case, they wouldn't even need to add anything. The whole series has been on one console generation and they have the graphical resources already made for every console it'll be released on. All they really needed to do was write the story, write the lines, maybe add a thing or two, record everything, and shove it out the door.

Oversimplifying by a LOT, but you get the idea. When the graphics are already done for you, you save a lot of time and money.

Solid Snake

03-01-2011, 07:04 PM

FFX-2 was cranked out in, what, two years using the resources from X?

...I'm not sure if FFX-2 is the best possible example to bring into this conversation.
(Excuse me while I now go to the bathroom to wash the bile out of my mouth.)

Aerozord

03-01-2011, 07:43 PM

The game is alot about choices and their impact. I bet supporting Earth is a choice. Do you defend your homeworld and fellow humans, leaving the rest of the galaxy on its own, or do you protect the Citadel and galactic infrastructure for benefit of all while putting your own people in a weaker position

bluestarultor

03-01-2011, 07:51 PM

...I'm not sure if FFX-2 is the best possible example to bring into this conversation.
(Excuse me while I now go to the bathroom to wash the bile out of my mouth.)

Say what you will about the story (I didn't have a problem with it, personally), but it had the best battle system of the series, made excellent use of X's resources, and offered quite a lot to those who played it with its complex web of missions.

I really don't get where all the hate for it comes from, considering how well-received (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_X-2#Reception) it was.

Solid Snake

03-01-2011, 08:36 PM

Say what you will about the story (I didn't have a problem with it, personally), but it had the best battle system of the series, made excellent use of X's resources, and offered quite a lot to those who played it with its complex web of missions.

I really don't get where all the hate for it comes from, considering how well-received (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_X-2#Reception) it was.

Reception of a product =/= objective quality of a product.

And hey, I can't say it's terribly surprising to note that a game that features Rikku and Yuna as dress-up dolls in bikinis and other skin-tight outfits and transforms their once depth-filled personalities into one-dimensional, prototypical Jpop singers would be popular. Games with physically attractive female leads certainly have a nice head start there. And the gameplay isn't altogether terrible, assuming you completely forget about the art direction and analyze it as something more akin to FF5's "jobs" or "specializations."

...Heck, you could even make the argument, and I wouldn't necessarily completely disagree with it, that FFX-2 would have been an acceptably mediocre, average RPG if it just featured new female characters in a new world, as opposed to piggybacking off of FFX and disrupting the established personalities of known characters.

...But all that aside, the list of "things that are horribly, horribly wrong with FFX-2 when considered as a sequel to FFX", not to mention "the things that are horribly, horribly wrong with FFX-2's depiction of women to a predominantly young male audience" would cover an entire essay worth of material. And it's an essay that I've written multiple times, and one I probably shouldn't repeat here, lest I derail the thread.

...So. Which ME1 and ME2 characters do you expect will be prominently featured in ME3, and which squadmates might be relegated into small cameos or ditched entirely?

Krylo

03-01-2011, 08:39 PM

Reception of a product =/= objective quality of a product.

And hey, I can't say it's terribly surprising to note that a game that features Rikku and Yuna as dress-up dolls in bikinis and other skin-tight outfits and transforms theirYou had me annnnd once depth-filled personalitiesYou lost me.

Azisien

03-01-2011, 08:41 PM

...So. Which ME1 and ME2 characters do you expect will be prominently featured in ME3, and which squadmates might be relegated into small cameos or ditched entirely?

I am apprehensive because given the enormous web of choices available via two games, I can't see them having that many ME1 and 2 characters playing a huge role. That would be a lot of redundant/overlapping work to fully story and voice a character that may be dead.

I figure the length to which you saw Ashley/Kaiden/Wrex in ME2 may be the extent to which you see ME2 characters.

Mind I don't WANT this, but it's also a huge job to do what I WANT. Surprise me, Bioware.

Also get this fucking Final Fantasy bullshit out of my Mass Effect thread. Blues if you don't understand the Internet view of FFX-2 at this point, you live under a rock. Snake, don't goad him! Me, stop backseat modding!

You lost me.

Well he's right about the J-Pop thing. Literally. :\

Krylo

03-01-2011, 08:47 PM

Well that's why I didn't quote THAT part.

bluestarultor

03-01-2011, 09:14 PM

I am apprehensive because given the enormous web of choices available via two games, I can't see them having that many ME1 and 2 characters playing a huge role. That would be a lot of redundant/overlapping work to fully story and voice a character that may be dead.

I figure the length to which you saw Ashley/Kaiden/Wrex in ME2 may be the extent to which you see ME2 characters.

Mind I don't WANT this, but it's also a huge job to do what I WANT. Surprise me, Bioware.

Also get this fucking Final Fantasy bullshit out of my Mass Effect thread. Blues if you don't understand the Internet view of FFX-2 at this point, you live under a rock. Snake, don't goad him! Me, stop backseat modding!

Well he's right about the J-Pop thing. Literally. :\

All I was trying to do was show how a game can be made with its predecessor's materials. He's the one who felt the need to heave and get all up in arms. :/

Point being, using the prequel's resources basically amounts to:

Producer: "Hey, we need you guys to make a game."
Developer: "I'm listening. It's going to take a ton of time and money."
Producer: "Well, we have a bit of a surprise for you. It's a sequel." *snaps fingers*
*a giant silver platter is rolled out to the table*
Developer: *lifts the lid and sees a multitude of clocks and wads of bills* "Doesn't seem to be enough."
Producer: "I said it was a sequel."
*another platter is rolled in*
Developer: *lifts lid to see millions of polygons, sound bytes, and lines of code* "OH. MY. GOD! YES! Yes, this will make up the entire difference! Maybe more!"

Bells

03-01-2011, 09:26 PM

On using old assets i'll say this... i do worry a little about them changing Music Composers, i loved the music in ME2. And now there is a new guy doing that on ME3... it's an Oscar Winner and everything, and he does have a decent background. But still... i hope they manage to keep or improve the quality in that department.

Aerozord

03-01-2011, 09:27 PM

but they cant shave off any more then they already have, while sequels do take less, this is the second sequel. I imagine differance between ME2 and ME3 will be about the same as ME1 to ME2

Azisien

03-01-2011, 09:29 PM

Bells

03-01-2011, 09:47 PM

Kill Reapers and save the Earth to this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE0UA8RREX4)

Yes ploix.

I see your point, i still love the "Futuristic" Flair of the ME2 main theme though (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOvwAYLWO88). No doubt the new soundtrack is going to be Epic, i just hope they keep it unique.

Azisien

03-01-2011, 09:52 PM

Solid Snake

03-01-2011, 09:52 PM

I am apprehensive because given the enormous web of choices available via two games, I can't see them having that many ME1 and 2 characters playing a huge role. That would be a lot of redundant/overlapping work to fully story and voice a character that may be dead.

I figure the length to which you saw Ashley/Kaiden/Wrex in ME2 may be the extent to which you see ME2 characters.

Mind I don't WANT this, but it's also a huge job to do what I WANT. Surprise me, Bioware.

...I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that, if given the choice between like a version of ME3 where absolutely no new characters were introduced and all your squadmates were ME1 and ME2 holdovers and the game required you to actually have beaten ME2 in order to play it, insofar as its narrative was entirely dependent on your ME2 decisions...and a version of ME3 that was just like "Here is a totally new cast of characters, everything you did in ME2 is now irrelevant, you might see a few of them in glorified cameos though!"

...Like, please, give me the former option.

At this point there really is no added utility for me to meet many new characters, and 95% of my enjoyment of ME's storyline will come from seeing old faces return.

...I'm just hoping Bioware actually realizes this.

Azisien

03-01-2011, 09:59 PM

...I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that, if given the choice between like a version of ME3 where absolutely no new characters were introduced and all your squadmates were ME1 and ME2 holdovers and the game required you to actually have beaten ME2 in order to play it, insofar as its narrative was entirely dependent on your ME2 decisions...and a version of ME3 that was just like "Here is a totally new cast of characters, everything you did in ME2 is now irrelevant, you might see a few of them in glorified cameos though!"

...Like, please, give me the former option.

At this point there really is no added utility for me to meet many new characters, and 95% of my enjoyment of ME's storyline will come from seeing old faces return.

...I'm just hoping Bioware actually realizes this.

Yes, kind of like that. But it seems both pessimistic AND realistic for me to assume it's more likely surviving ME1/ME2 characters would get, like, CG cut scenes or something of them doing cool shit. Maybe.

Even agreeing with Blues on them having pretty much all the resources they need from ME2 to build up ME3, the kind of story branching that exists to create THE SUPER IDEAL ME3 we all hope and dream for seems unrealistic.

I'm saying all of this to combat my murderously high expectations to some extent. Keep that in mind.

I mean, I hope Earth is the prologue and opening missions too. I'd be very disappointed if Earth was the end-game. Fuck Earth. Earth is a pathetic speck on the galactic scale, or so the setting has led me to believe.

As for how the Reapers get to the Milky Way so fast, honestly I'm not too sure. Maybe relays get opened for them? Maybe there are a few more latent emergency Reapers? Maybe they hibernate in dark space but actually DO have the energy to jump back to the galaxy in a total emergency. I think from a Reaper viewpoint, this is a total emergency now. They're hyper efficient machines. No point jumping back unless it's absolutely necessary.

Maybe they actually just ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL of our own ships and beat everyone up that way.

Solid Snake

03-01-2011, 10:14 PM

Yes, kind of like that. But it seems both pessimistic AND realistic for me to assume it's more likely surviving ME1/ME2 characters would get, like, CG cut scenes or something of them doing cool shit. Maybe.

Even agreeing with Blues on them having pretty much all the resources they need from ME2 to build up ME3, the kind of story branching that exists to create THE SUPER IDEAL ME3 we all hope and dream for seems unrealistic.

...I dunno, I mean, in Bioware's defense, I thought they did a surprisingly good job correlating many of your choices in ME1 to ME2 developments.

That being said, there were some disappointments too. It was saddening that all your ME1 conversations with Garrus had no effect on his ME2 outlook. Like, even assuming he'd have become Archangel regardless, you can give him drastically different reasons for doing so based on how Paragon or Renegade he was feeling at the end of ME1, and that wouldn't require a drastic amount of coding.

Really, like, I could easily separate the ME1 / ME2 cast into several categorizations of characters:

Characters Who Absolutely Must Return in ME3 and Play A Significant Role, There is Seriously No Excuse If Bioware Does Not Do So: Liara, Garrus, Tali, Joker

Characters Who Should Return in ME3 and Play A Significant Role, Insofar as They're Love Interests for Some Gamers and it'd Stink if Bioware Privileged Some LIs over Others: Kaidan, Ashley, Miranda, Jack, Thane (and...I guess Jacob...although please Bioware, don't feel obligated to waste too much time with him.)

Characters Who I'd Like to See in ME3, at least in Cameos, possibly (as appropriate) as Squadmates: Mordin, Wrex, Legion, Kal'Reegar, Illusive Man, Anderson

Characters Who, To Be Frank, I Probably Wouldn't Mind Not Seeing In ME3: Zaeed, Kasumi, Samara, Morinith, any Character I Haven't Mentioned

Finally, Character Who Must Appear At One Point So I Can Kick His Ass in a Renegade Interrupt: Turian Council Member, preferably while making a "quotation" gesture while referencing the improbable existence of "Reapers" on Earth.

...Like, if I just read about ME3 and Bioware's like "Man, we sure put a lot of effort into making sure there were separate dialogue trees and squadmate options depending on whether you chose Samara or Morinith, it was sure worth keeping that over ensuring you could use your squadmates as LIs, or including Garrus or Tali in the game!", that is something I would not be happy with.

I think my deepest concern is that the Dragon Age: Origins style military recruitment quests will lead, for example, Tali and Legion to be non-squadmate cameo characters who just aid you diplomatically in attempting to convince the Geth and the Quarians not to go to war with each other if they're alive during the "Geth / Quarian Mission." And then there'd be like a "Salarian Recruitment Mission" where you'd meet Mordin and say hi to him, and then a "Turian Recruitment Mission" and, look, there's Garrus!

...Oh God I would hate that so much.

Bells

03-01-2011, 10:37 PM

I think my big point is music should probably be the least of our worries because they really seem to have that covered. I don't need soundtrack links either, I own both of them!

Worry more about over-simplifying the game play (The "Fable" approach to game design), or their APPROACH to game play. I can't even read the middle pages of this thread because god damn another "fetch aid to oust the Reapers from Earth for 25 hours" mission set scares the fuck out of me.

i can totally agree with you on that one, Even though i don't look at Mass Effect as an RPG, more like an Action game with some RPG elements, and in that regard the game is a little simplistic. It bothered me that it felt like even though the weapons are great and you can evolve them to more powerfull versions... the Selection was still rather short, same with Armors. I hope they expand that on the next game...

And Again, i'm fairly certain that the Cast of ME 3 will be a Mix of ME1 and ME2 with some new additions, and there will be deaths fo'sure!

bluestarultor

03-02-2011, 01:20 AM

Just learned this from my brother, but apparently the PS3 version of ME2 was already using the models and engine of ME3, so all told, I'm thinking that they've got the resources at this point and have had plenty of time to get on that complex web of decisions thing.

Like, really, judging by the comic and no experience with ME1, not all decisions actually matter. They'll probably just take your Paragon and Renegade and the big things and off you go. Thinking in terms of the big decisions, it's going to determine stuff like who's alive and whether Liara is the Shadow Broker or not. Plus who you've romanced and if you've stayed faithful to the person in the first game if you actually played it and romanced anyone (since it's possible to have not romanced anyone).

Aerozord

03-02-2011, 01:50 PM

Like, really, judging by the comic and no experience with ME1, not all decisions actually matter.

most do, even seemingly minor ones pop back up in ME2. Dont always have major plot influence, but your choices are acknowledged. That was one of ME2's biggest draws

Shin Amakiir

03-03-2011, 01:00 AM

I watched a video of the comic. There's only six choices you make that actually affect the plot of ME2, apparently. I can't remember which those were... Character interactions from quests and stuff are a given or something, I think. Not too sure.

Bells

03-03-2011, 01:33 AM

This is the list of ME1 effects on ME2, mind you that not all of these are Plot Related

Achievements:
- Rich Yes/No
Random:
- Full Paragon/Renegade bar
- Paragon/Renegade points
- Childhood choice Spacer/Earthborn/Colonist
- Reputation choice Sole Survivor/War Hero/Ruthless
- Purchased Elkoss Carbine license.
Party Members:
- Garrus recruited Yes/No
- Wrex recruited Yes/No
- Garrus is Paragon/Renegade
- Tali side quest done Yes/No
- Romanced someone Yes/No
- Romanced Ashley/Kaidan/Liara
Citadel:
- Dr. Chloe Michel blackmailer Killed/Persuaded
- Asari Consort sidequest done Yes/No
- Should be got trinket from consort.
- Interview outcome Refused to do interview/Punch out/Apologize
- Had first conversation with The Fan (Conrad Verner) Yes/No
- The Fan last conversation outcome Paragon(Stay at home)/Renegade(Threaten)
- Harkin talked to Yes/No (tied in to Garrus recruitment)
- Accepted quest from Chorban to scan Keepers Yes/No
- Number of Keepers scanned
- Jahleed quest outcome (Chorban) Scared off/Killed
- Fist outcome Let go/Killed
- Old Friends quest (Earthborn background ONLY), talked to Finch Yes/No
- Old Friends quest (Earthborn background ONLY), Finch killed Yes/No
- Talked to your mom after talking to Lieutenant Zabaleta Yes/No (Spacer background ONLY,Citadel: Old, Unhappy, Far-Off Things (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Citadel:_Old,_Unhappy,_Far-Off_Things))
- Citadel: Citadel: I Remember Me (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Citadel:_I_Remember_Me) (Colonist background ONLY), Talitha talked down from killing herself Yes/No -?Possibly a 2nd check for Citadel: I Remember Me present, whether you Forced/Convinced Talitha to take the sedative
- Citadel: Homecoming (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Citadel:_Homecoming) Body returned to Samesh Yes/No -?105a "And 105a might be relating to whether or not you gave Schnells the Salarian gambler his data or gave it to the bartender." OR Citadel: Reporter's Request (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Citadel:_Reporter%27s_Request) Handed over data to the reporter Yes/No.
- Helena Blake Alive or dead? How did you treat her?
Feros: -?The company man (Ethan Jeong, ExoGeni Corporation representative) outcome good/good+ (outcomes listed here http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Ethan_Jeong, not sure which is which)
- Number of colonists killed
- Colony outcome Good+/Good/Fail/Renegade
- Possessed Asari (Shiala(Thorian plant)) Freed/Killed
Noveria:
- Gianna Helped(evidence handed over)/Betrayed/Evidence handed over to Lorik
- Han Olar talked to Yes/No
- Rachni Queen released Yes/No
Virmire:
- Wrex killed by player/killed by Ashley/killed by Ashley without permission
- Geth Flyers disabled Yes/No (Captain Kirrahe saved or not)
- Psyrana dead Yes/No (Asari assistant in one of the labs let go or not inside the facility)
- Rescued Ashley/Kaidan
Endgame
- Old Council Saved/Killed
- Choice for new council Anderson/Udina
- Game complete Yes/No
Sidequests:
- UNC:Hostile Takeover Accepted Money/Persuaded to disband gang
- Know about Slaver Asari quest Yes/No
- Slaver Asari quest outcome (Killed Sister) Yes/No
-?UNC: Lost Module (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/UNC:_Lost_Module), - the silver sphere you find on that planet that has 3 pages of text http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Eletania#The_Vision"
-?UNC: Cerberus (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/UNC:_Cerberus) Heard of Cerberus Yes/No (ie did you do UNC: Missing Marines (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/UNC:_Missing_Marines) leading to this quest or not.
-?UNC: Hades' Dogs (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/UNC:_Hades%27_Dogs) Cerberus files found. Not sure what is tracked, probably if you returned them or gave to the Shadow Broker.
- UNC: Hostage (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/UNC:_Hostage) Chairman died Yes/No
- UNC: Hostage (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/UNC:_Hostage)
- UNC: Dead Scientists (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/UNC:_Dead_Scientists) Killed Scientist/Convinced Corporal Toombs to lower weapon
DLC (Bring Down the Sky):
- Humans rescued Yes/No

If you think about it, a lot of the decisions Shepard make in ME2 seem to effect how he would be received by earth and how the other races see him now... i mean, think of that Reporter. She is a very minor figure in the overall plot, but she is a Media icon that got scoops on Shepard twice. Clearly, the way you react to her will carry to Earth's view of Shepard.

Solid Snake

03-03-2011, 01:45 AM

Admittingly, most of those ME1 decisions really only resulted in different e-mail content or different Citadel News Updates in ME2. More than six decisions did have greater consequences (not all meaningful decisions were represented via the PS3 comic), which felt unprecedented at the time, but now that we've experienced ME2 I think the bar will be set higher for ME3, and I just hope Bioware can at least meet some (if not all) of our inflated expectations and not just feel like an ME2 rehash (in terms of gameplay) with a copy-pasted DA:O storyline.

...I mean I'd just feel frankly disappointed, to be quite honest, if my ME2 decisions generally had a similarly tiny impact on ME3. ME2 was more streamlined -- less extraneous missions and wandering around, more actually cutting to the chase and doing stuff that mattered -- and I hope ME3 reflects that.

EDIT: Also, you could choose not to recruit Garrus in ME1?
...And that actually impacts ME2 somehow? O_o
Like even in my PS3 ME2 game, without an ME1 import, Garrus spoke as if he and Shepard had worked together to defeat Saren.

EDIT 2: I also noticed that the PS3 version has a few "defaults" set that may be different than the X360 or PC "defaults." Or maybe not. But at least it doesn't assume an ME1 version of Shepard who did absolutely nothing.
For example, every one of my PS3 Shepards had dialogue options available with Miranda and the Illusive Man alluding to a familiarity with Cerberus' nasty experiments via terrorist style cells on colonies, suggesting that the "default" was actually familiarity with the corresponding UNC missions.

Osterbaum

03-03-2011, 04:31 AM

I expect many of your ME2 squad to continue being part of your squad in ME3. Otherwise, what was the point of trying to keep all of them alive?

I'd like to bring up something that hasn't been mentioned yet; the trailer. The trailer makes it pretty clear that Earth plays a major role, so it might end up being about ally gathering for taking back Earth. Also the man narrating the trailer could very well be a character in ME3.

Bells

03-03-2011, 02:26 PM

Aerozord

03-03-2011, 03:12 PM

I did remember hearing a possible outcome for the end of ME2 is Joker and EDI are the only survivors, even Shepard doesn't make it. Wonder how they'd handle that

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

03-03-2011, 03:14 PM

Bioware have already said that that ending won't be transferable. Though it is quite funny to have everyone die.

Azisien

03-03-2011, 03:14 PM

I did remember hearing a possible outcome for the end of ME2 is Joker and EDI are the only survivors, even Shepard doesn't make it. Wonder how they'd handle that

Well they either pull something really wacky, or more likely, you can't import that save.

bluestarultor

03-03-2011, 03:15 PM

Well, the cast of ME2 is pretty symbolic to represent all the major factions/races in the Universe... for instance, you have Jacob and Miranda. Now, Jacob is your "Former Alliance" soldier, while Miranda is your Cerberus loyal. These two mirror pretty well where you are going to place your Loyalty regarding Earth and Humanity.

Also, Both kinda start the game Stiff and distant, but i noticed, the more Paragon i got, and spcially after Jacob's Loyalty mission, the guy relaxed and seemed like a pretty decent fellow. Miranda was going down that road too.. untill i choose Jack's side and she shut me off...

Having Samara or Morinth in your game also has Weight to your game. Having Samara might mean that you will have the Justicars on your Side... or maybe, if they come to earth, Killing-prone as they all are, your relationship with Samara might affect their views with Shepard.

Just as a note, but from seeing my brother manage to mediate between them, Miranda stays friendly and is actually really nice when you get to know her.

Actually, the same goes for Samara. She's not used to having anyone to talk to and is a bit awkward in that area at first, but as you keep talking to her, she gets the hang of it and is actually quite likable, tells you stories of how she got to be a Jusitcar, gives you insight on how she lives, etc.

Aerozord

03-03-2011, 03:22 PM

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

03-03-2011, 03:33 PM

I mean is it a true dead end or will they make some alternative for what happens from importing that save. While I kind of like the idea of "no you screwed up, so no transfer for you", but alot of people will be upset if they only had a single run

On another note, I find it interesting you can get Samara's daughter to join you, and if you take her up on her offer for sex you die, HA

I doubt many people will be bothered by it not be importable; you have to work REALLY hard to screw up so badly. In fact it's harder to have everyone die than it is to save everyone.

You have to NOT upgrade any of the ship components, and then pick the worst possible person for every task, so basically pick anyone other than Jacob, Miranda or Garrus to lead the other team, pick anyone other than Legion, Tali or Kasumi to bypass the door, use Miranda to create the biotic barrier to protect you from the swarms AND also have Grunt in your party during that time (Grunt has to die at that point) and then take all the people with the highest defence stats with you to fight the final boss instead of leaving them to hold the line (basically removing Zaead, Garrus and Grunt (if he's still alive) from the "hold the line" group where their high defence helps keep all the others alive).

And only if all of them die will Shepard die, because they'll be no one left to catch you as you jump for the Normandy at the end (if there are even 2 teamates left, Shepard survives). So yeah, unless you're intentionally trying to fail, it's not likely to happen normally.

At worst you can go into the next game with all but 2 members dead and one of those remaining 2 will probably be Grunt, because he has the highest defence stat and is usually the last to die.

Solid Snake

03-03-2011, 05:18 PM

I doubt many people will be bothered by it not be importable; you have to work REALLY hard to screw up so badly. In fact it's harder to have everyone die than it is to save everyone.

...All you have to do is just go straight for the suicide mission once you're able to and not recruit every character beforehand. Really, there's virtually no characters you're stuck with except Mordin, Miranda, Jacob, and maybe one or two of the first-tier pre-Horizon recruit characters, I don't know if there's a requirement there.

But after that you gain access to the Collector Ship based entirely on # missions completed -- and missions where you don't recruit anyone new or increase anyone's loyalty count towards that goal. Scan planets and do those dopey 125 experience missions. And then you pretty much have close-to-immediate access to the Reaper IFF mission.

And keep Legion and Grunt in their respective comatose situations, don't release them and let them become party members.

I mean sure if you recruit everyone, then it's really hard to fail, but that's intentionally the case -- recruiting is supposed to increase your chances of survival.

Ravashak

03-03-2011, 05:26 PM

I don't remember the source at all, but I think they said in some interview or something where they said everyone, including Shepard could die in the last mission that if that was the case it wouldn't be transferable. So this is pre- or very close after release of ME2.

Krylo

03-03-2011, 05:37 PM

Why would anyone think you COULD transfer dead Shepard?

S/He's dead.

Solid Snake

03-03-2011, 05:49 PM

Why would anyone think you COULD transfer dead Shepard?

S/He's dead.

I would be really interested in transferring a file with like, only Shepard alive, and maybe Zaeed and Kasumi, everyone else dead, and like the worst decisions made in every scenario.

...Just to see how depressing ME3 would be.

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

03-03-2011, 06:19 PM

...All you have to do is just go straight for the suicide mission once you're able to and not recruit every character beforehand. Really, there's virtually no characters you're stuck with except Mordin, Miranda, Jacob, and maybe one or two of the first-tier pre-Horizon recruit characters, I don't know if there's a requirement there.

But after that you gain access to the Collector Ship based entirely on # missions completed -- and missions where you don't recruit anyone new or increase anyone's loyalty count towards that goal. Scan planets and do those dopey 125 experience missions. And then you pretty much have close-to-immediate access to the Reaper IFF mission.

And keep Legion and Grunt in their respective comatose situations, don't release them and let them become party members.

I mean sure if you recruit everyone, then it's really hard to fail, but that's intentionally the case -- recruiting is supposed to increase your chances of survival.

Yes but my point was that most people who have just bought the game aren't just going to rush to the end without seeing and doing everything are they? You have to intentionally screw up in order to get that ending. This was in response to Aero saying that people might be upset about not being able to transfer their save if they'd screwed up and got the bad ending, which just won't happen if you actually care to play the game properly and not rush through it doing the absolute bare minimum and/or making all the wrong choices.

If you're wanting to get the next game and want to transfer your character I'd imagine you would, in some way, care to play the game, you know?

I don't remember the source at all, but I think they said in some interview or something where they said everyone, including Shepard could die in the last mission that if that was the case it wouldn't be transferable. So this is pre- or very close after release of ME2.

Yes, they did, as I already said.

I would be really interested in transferring a file with like, only Shepard alive, and maybe Zaeed and Kasumi, everyone else dead, and like the worst decisions made in every scenario.

...Just to see how depressing ME3 would be.

That, you can do. Although you would be a horrible, horrible person for doing so.

Solid Snake

03-03-2011, 06:34 PM

Yes but my point was that most people who have just bought the game aren't just going to rush to the end without seeing and doing everything are they? You have to intentionally screw up in order to get that ending. This was in response to Aero saying that people might be upset about not being able to transfer their save if they'd screwed up and got the bad ending, which just won't happen if you actually care to play the game properly and not rush through it doing the absolute bare minimum and/or making all the wrong choices.

Assuming you're an RPG completionist like most of us are, yes, it would be very difficult to fail the suicide mission.

...That being said, I did purposely attempt to contrive circumstances in order to get Jacob killed.
More than once.

But yeah it was actually unfortunate that ME2 makes it much easier to actually emerge from the suicide mission with everyone alive than emerge with a few causalities. It would have been decidedly more awesome if you were forced to actually choose between characters outright during the Suicide Mission, like one squadmate is going to die regardless of what you do, and you can only choose which one to sacrifice.

...In that sense ME1's Virmire mission actually had more dire stakes in practice than the ME2 Suicide Mission did. Although the suicide run was much more intense and better directed, that's for sure.
If you're wanting to get the next game and want to transfer your character I'd imagine you would, in some way, care to play the game, you know?

That, you can do. Although you would be a horrible, horrible person for doing so.

Nah, it's not for sadistic reasons that I'd do so, but rather just to see how different the game would play from the typical Paragon, Everyone Is Perfectly Alive playthrough.

Krylo

03-03-2011, 06:39 PM

I like that you were able to save everyone, I just wish it would have depended on more than how much side questing you did. Like set timers, or make you give a group cover fire, or some other thing that forced you to play well to keep them alive, rather than just "Welp, everyone is loyal and I've made all the painfully obvious choices, NO ONE DIES".

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

03-03-2011, 06:49 PM

Although, the way it's set up I don't think you could keep Kasumi alive, she tends to have a low priority when it comes to the final section on who to kill off. Or you'd have to do her loyalty mission and then send her on escort duty maybe, and then make sure Zaead is loyal and keep him with you for the final battle, after successfully killing off everyone else.

I wonder if you can kill all but 2 people off before the final fight, leaving nobody behind as a rear guard though... You might not even be able to finish the mission if that happens.

Sifright

03-03-2011, 06:50 PM

Hey guys I think we should let jacob do the tech job he volunteered after all ( i totally did that by the way *Sucker*)

Osterbaum

03-03-2011, 06:56 PM

The fact that it was so easy to have everyone survive the "suicide mission" was one of the few complaints I had about ME2. It is as Snake said, ME1's Virmire mission had more going for it in terms of drama, suspense and choice than ME2's final mission. I would've hoped the "suicide mission" would've contained atleast one, but preferably two, instances where you would've been forced to choose between team mates or something similar.

Bells

03-03-2011, 07:00 PM

I'm curious about how they will actually manage the transfer. I think they did a masterfull job on ME2, with Shepard being dead and "revived" you had a clear excuse to de-power him and change his looks, and even that you would still retain some of that power. It made sense, it added to the story, the theme, and it was one of the best "sequel carry over" ever made in games.

Now, FOR ME3... i'm not really sure how they are going to pull that off again

Solid Snake

03-03-2011, 07:19 PM

Hey guys I think we should let jacob do the tech job he volunteered after all ( i totally did that by the way *Sucker*)

Doesn't a bad technician just kill off the fire team leader?

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

03-03-2011, 07:55 PM

Nah bad technician gets killed, bad fire team leader also gets the tech killed, even if they're the right person for the job and are loyal. The other team leader only gets killed at the second time you have to pick teams, right after the reaper swarm section.

This is how I got Legion and Samara killed; Legion as the techy, Samara as leader, Legion died. Used Jack for the barrier and kept Samara again as the leader, Samara died.

Sifright

03-03-2011, 08:19 PM

My first run in fairness I had no deaths, not that it's anything to be proud of they couldn't have made the choices more obvious with out painting the correct choices in flashing neon pink

Bells

03-03-2011, 08:37 PM

well... now, yes. Often is quite easy to tell which is good cop and which is bad cop, but a few times i did get Renegade points for choices i thought would turn out to be paragon. In that regard, i must say the game does a decent enough job

Aerozord

03-03-2011, 08:47 PM

I'm curious about how they will actually manage the transfer. I think they did a masterfull job on ME2, with Shepard being dead and "revived" you had a clear excuse to de-power him

they didn't de-power him, in fact he was improved, its just everything in the setting leveled with him, or rather past since they weren't dead all that time.

I pointed this out in the old ME2 thread, ME1 most of your group were not highly experienced warriors, your group in ME3 are the best of the best hand selected for their amazing skills.

Solid Snake

03-03-2011, 10:01 PM

I pointed this out in the old ME2 thread, ME1 most of your group were not highly experienced warriors, your group in ME3 are the best of the best hand selected for their amazing skills.

...This doesn't really explain why the single greatest warrior not named "Shepard" that was in your party, the one named "Wrex," was a squadmate in ME1 but not in ME2.

I mean your thesis would seem to suggest that Wrex should've have been, like, Level Ten Thousand around the time we initially recruited him.

Bells

03-03-2011, 10:17 PM

Well, they kinda deal with Wrex, since he could be killed in ME1 and that Decision carries over to ME2, they couldn't re-instate the guy as a teammate. So much that he has a short part in ME2 if he was alive by the end of ME1.

Considering how the deaths play out in ME2, it's not absurd to imagine that all characters in ME2 will be like, leaders of smaller groups in ME3 that you join for a couple of missions before hoping to another zone, all the while making a new team with brand new characters.

I Mean... they can't make huge chunks or Plot important material connected to characters that not all players might have on their save files... and everyone could die in ME2... so... it's not like there is a way around it...

Eltargrim

03-15-2011, 11:32 PM

Page 2 necro? Who cares? Nothing is better than Commander Shepard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHseWNr7iKk)!

Bells

03-16-2011, 03:21 AM

and by the way, there is new ME2 DLC coming to connect ME2 to ME3 before launch

Solid Snake

05-04-2011, 05:35 PM

I'm not the world's biggest Kaidan fan but hot shit, he looks awesome in the newly released image.

http://na.llnet.bioware.cdn.ea.com/u/f/eagames/bioware/masseffect3/resources/assets/media/screenshots/screenshot-001-kaidan_shepard_liara-p.jpg

...Looks like Kaidan and Liara confirmed for squadmates? Wonder if that means Ashley's coming back too, if you left her alive in ME1.

Kerensky287

05-04-2011, 05:46 PM

I'm kind of wondering what they're doing about old squadmates actually. Considering that the only one of them that is 100% certain to be alive is Liara... I dunno, it feels like either they'll a) disappoint people by removing all but a few of the veterans or b) try to put in everyone, marginalizing the new folks and giving people who DIDN'T get full-survivorship the short end of the stick.

That said, Garrus had better be in. If Legion is unplayable for any reason I will be sore as well.

I'm wondering how influential the DLC will be, as well. If you didn't beat Lair of the Shadow Broker, is the idea that Liara went and took the base down herself offscreen? Or will they actually change aspects of gameplay by giving you the Shadow Broker's resources if you bought and completed that scenario?

Of course they might just destroy the Shadow Broker's base in the first 5 minutes to put everyone on even footing but this is one of those cases that just typifies "if you try to please everyone you will please no one."

EDIT: I am stupid and did not read the previous 6 pages so my points have probably been addressed already.

TO ADD SOMETHING NEW TO THE DISCUSSION: Anybody beat The Arrival? Anybody else kind of disappointed at how seemingly inconsequential it was considering the hype?

EDIT 2: The worst part of my original post was that I apparently responded to this thread at least once anyway and just forgot EVERYTHING.

Osterbaum

05-04-2011, 06:00 PM

Yeah Arrival was somewhat of a let down. It's only importance was at setting it up so, that Shepard is responsible for the destruction of a star system and will have to answer for that in some way at some point. I mean as far as delaying the Reapers goes, they could've just said that the Reapers are "in dark space and it will take them X months to reach our galaxy".

Also seeing as how the Arrival ended, delaying the Reapers and all, I think the game propably wont begin with the Reaper invasion.

e: Also new screens (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109761-Husks-Dont-Mess-Around-in-New-Mass-Effect-3-Screens). Also, also the realease has been delayed (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109771-Reapers-Delay-Mass-Effect-3-Until-2012).

e2: Also notice this (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109781-EA-Tweaking-Mass-Effect-3-to-Appeal-to-Wider-Market). You know I wouldn't be so pessimistic about this if Dragon Age II hadn't sucked monkey balls.

Solid Snake

05-12-2011, 10:29 AM

http://kotaku.com/5800972/five-new-mass-effect-3-details-you-might-want-to-hear

Fffffuuuuuccccckkkkk not as many cast members as in ME3? That sucks. If Garrus and Tali are not squadmates (particularly when we're visiting their damn homeworlds) I WILL BE DISAPPOINT =/

EDIT: Garrus was confirmed as party member YES

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/04/22/mass-effect-3-creating-garrus.aspx

EDIT 2: Apparently there were tons of updates while I was busy studying. Tali's been confirmed too.

"Garrus, Liara, Kaidan, Ashley and (newly confirmed) Tali are all full-time members of your team if they survived the previous games."

http://gamenyusu.com/component/content/article/8-all-news/429-mass-effect-3-details-from-pc-gamer.html

...There also appears to be rampant speculation that Legion's been all-but confirmed as party member because he has a featured ME3 story via GameInformer.

Revising Ocelot

05-12-2011, 01:01 PM

Less party members + the current "confirmed" old ones = absolutely no new party member characters?

I'm all for Garrus and Tali, but you can't just exclude new blood.

Osterbaum

05-12-2011, 01:41 PM

How about the party members that were introduced in ME2? Out of all of them there are only a few that I wouldn't mind seeing in anything but passing; Jacob, Kasumi, Zaeed. Everyone else I'd much like to be able to have in your party, or failing that have real importance to the story otherwise.

e: Also BioWare says less party members. ME2 had 13 (if you got Kasumi). So having for example 10 party members is already clearly less. I'd say that 8 is an absolute minimum of party members. That being said, I don't think that having a few members of your party less isn't necesarrily bad if it allows them to focus more on character development with the ones that do end up being in your party.

e2: Also you can have meaningful interactions and character development with characters that aren't in your party if they otherwise make frequent appearances.

Solid Snake

05-12-2011, 01:57 PM

Less party members + the current "confirmed" old ones = absolutely no new party member characters?

I'm all for Garrus and Tali, but you can't just exclude new blood.

There is at least one confirmed new squadmate character, a human named James (what is it with humans and names beginning with J?) He is an alliance dude who is apparently related to the main character of a comic spinoff.

I'd say his inclusion is bad news for those hoping Jacob returns as a squadmate. But that's just speculation regarding his unpopularity and the number of human males on the team.

EDIT: Bioware did say that some ME2 characters would remain on the Normandy (if alive) but not provide combat support as a permanent squadmate. Mordin for example will still be your scientist but won't join you for ground missions. Except maybe a special one on his homeworld or something. That is how a few of the characters will be handled.

Osterbaum

05-12-2011, 02:10 PM

I'd say his inclusion is bad news for those hoping Jacob returns as a squadmate.
Is someone actually hoping for this? I mean I want the game to acknowledge the fact that Jacob was in your team and that he survived (in the case that he did) etc. so he'd atleast make an appearance. But Jacob was pretty boring, so as a squad mate? No thanks, unless they actually make him vastly more interesting.

EDIT: Bioware did say that some ME2 characters would remain on the Normandy (if alive) but not provide combat support as a permanent squadmate. Mordin for example will still be your scientist but won't join you for ground missions. Except maybe a special one on his homeworld or something. That is how a few of the characters will be handled.
But Mordin and Tali are pretty much the only two characters that would have any business being on the ship without participating in combat. Mordin is the scientist/expert and Tali is the chief engineer. But all the others? Can't really think of anything for them to do. I mean I guess Jacob could do weapons maintenance and Miranda can sit in her office writing stuff but that would be pretty weak. And if they'd put Garrus in charge of weapons and not have him participate in combat? That would piss 99% of people off.

Kerensky287

05-12-2011, 03:00 PM

EDIT: Bioware did say that some ME2 characters would remain on the Normandy (if alive) but not provide combat support as a permanent squadmate. Mordin for example will still be your scientist but won't join you for ground missions. Except maybe a special one on his homeworld or something. That is how a few of the characters will be handled.

I actually found that that strategy worked really well in the DLC missions; using Liara in Shadow Broker was a fun change of pace, and it gives the devs the opportunity to give the player access to abilities that might be vastly overpowered in other situations. In that set of DLC I used my Adept character and spent most of the mission throwing dual Singularities every which way.

Solid Snake

05-12-2011, 03:06 PM

And weirdly (yet awesomely) enough, Tali's actually a "permanent" squadmate, despite the fact that she really shouldn't be. Pure popularity propelled her. (Albeit I'm sure there are conditions where she'd abandon your team, like if you totally fucked over the Quarians and supported the Geth.)

Personally I'm getting vibes that Jack, Legion, and Grunt are going to be the ME2 characters who make the transition as permanent squadmates, in large part because Jack and Legion (and Garrus) got "character design updates to ME3" snippets released to the public from Bioware, Jack has nothing better to do and her and James ensure one male and one female human aside from Kaidan / Ashley, and Ashley's redesign reminds me a bit too much of Miranda for me to get a positive vibe. And Grunt, of course, is likely to be the token Krogan. Mind you this is pure 100% speculation but if I had to wage money on the ME2 characters returning as permanent squaddies those are the names I'd gamble on.

(I don't think Jack's popularity truly merits it but I do think several important members of the ME3 team are quite "infatuated" with her.)

I'd actually totally buy into Miranda and/or Jacob sacrificing themselve(s) to rescue you from an early surprise attack by Cerberus. Maybe they'd even customize the death so that it didn't interfere with your potential LI (Miranda sacrifices herself for femshep, Jacob for maleshep, if one or the other is dead whoever's alive does the sacrifice regardless.) Again, pure speculation, but I wouldn't say I'm optimistic that Miranda or Jacob are going to be permanent squadmates this time around.

Overcast

05-12-2011, 03:58 PM

What I am trying to figure out is just what they might try with the story. A statistics reboot seems fairly likely, it happens even in sequels to RPG's though I am just trying to figure out how they are going to justify it. The question of recruiting the old members or keeping the new members may be based on what they chose to do after the end, and how they liked you. Maybe they'll just happen to be on the planets where your missions are. I honestly cannot say.

The question of who I'd enjoy seeing back is based mostly on how I felt about their personality because I'm not the kind of guy who felt their usage in combat all that important. I was able to deal with most issues using my abilities alone. I didn't like Jacob, he was a practice in Bioware's inability to make normal people interesting(similar to why I left Ashley to die). Garrus was fine but continued his theme of being a low dialogue creature, only this time I got to watch him become broodier and simultaneously more perverse. I wasn't fond of Grunt since he was a child who had no personal identity, which after Wrex was quite a let down. I didn't much like either Asari, Samara was a one sided knight templar her daughter was a sociopathic monster. Miranda is a neutral area for me, I didn't feel much distaste for her, what with being relatively witty and supporting when I made the renegade options that were for pragmatism. Yet I don't know how they could develop her more. Jack was notable enough, I kinda just want to see her development after understanding the truth of her origins. Thane I kinda hoped died, a part of me wouldn't find it too bad to have him die in the final mission. Reason being is he is a man with quite a past that made him incredibly interesting, and dying saving the galaxy...he deserves that. Tali was almost certainly meant to be the love interest since she was one mess of adorable that even my faggoty self couldn't help but ship with shep. She of course has an unfair advantage as I have a weakness for the unreasonably dorkish. Mordin was to this game on my point as Wrex was in the first one, a person with the degree of veteran knowledge that matched my persona as Shepard, up to the point that he had his own ideals on the world that he could match me on and argue with. Needless to say I loved the guy. Legion was an interesting practice in trying to understand something that isn't human and that was at one point demonized by pretty much the whole of the galaxy. I want to know what might be deeper in that mass of programs.

As for characters before, new Liara is a fucking monster, but in an interesting way. I'd like to see her at least using her newfound power to help what is sure to be Shepard trying to save the Galaxy from itself. Also if Kaiden is back, I reserve the right to call him a whiny bitch before I convert him to my side. Because fuck you Mr. Psychic, I fucking died. I swear if he doesn't become a gay romance next time I won't understand how he could act so stilted.

And Conrad Verner.

Kerensky287

05-12-2011, 05:16 PM

And Conrad Verner.

I think you mentioned him in the context of romance options but I am not joking when I say that I 100% hope their "no new party members" thing just means no NEWLY INTRODUCED characters as party members.

Verner just deserves to be a squad member.

You know it, deep down.

Like, I don't even care if he has any abilities or weapons, I just want to hear his dialog all the time in response to all of these genuinely dangerous situations.

Imagine if you could've brought him along to fight the Shadow Broker, who had a special line of dialog for whichever 3rd party member you had at your side! "THANK YOU FOR BRINGING SHEPARD, HIS HEAD WILL FETCH A HIGH PRICE. I DO NOT KNOW WHO THIS OTHER MAN IS BUT I DON'T KNOW MAYBE HE WILL BE SELLABLE TOO."

Krylo

05-12-2011, 05:19 PM

A romancable party member.

His special ability is getting credits from crates and shit.

Edit: Also, trufax, Shadow Broker totally ignores Jacob if you bring him with.

Solid Snake

05-12-2011, 05:24 PM

I think you mentioned him in the context of romance options but I am not joking when I say that I 100% hope their "no new party members" thing just means no NEWLY INTRODUCED characters as party members.

Nah man, as I said, we already got at least one "newly introduced" character as a party member, this James dude, although Bioware has already specified that James will not be a romantic option for any Shepard, and in fact, no new romances are being introduced in ME3.

...Which is weird, insofar as Bioware has also suggested that it's putting plenty of effort to include scenes and resolution with pre-existing romance options, but whatevs.

Verner does deserve to be a squad member, but I doubt he'll be one. :P

...I brought Garrus with me to the Shadow Broker and all I got was an Archangel bounty reference.

Kerensky287

05-12-2011, 07:27 PM

Edit: Also, trufax, Shadow Broker totally ignores Jacob if you bring him with.

Not really, he just sort of goes "Hey, I'll sell Shep's corpse. Also you brought Mr Taylor, neat, I get to kill a Cerberus person." He says the exact same thing (except with names swapped) if you bring Miranda along.

Nah man, as I said, we already got at least one "newly introduced" character as a party member, this James dude, although Bioware has already specified that James will not be a romantic option for any Shepard, and in fact, no new romances are being introduced in ME3.

...Bleh, sorry, I guess I misread that then.

Conrad Verner totally deserves to be a squad member though, even if he's just a temporary party member.

Krylo

05-12-2011, 08:23 PM

Not really, he just sort of goes "Hey, I'll sell Shep's corpse. Also you brought Mr Taylor, neat, I get to kill a Cerberus person." He says the exact same thing (except with names swapped) if you bring Miranda along.

Yeah, but everyone who ISN'T Jacob or Miranda he says something about how they're famous for this or excellent at that or worth money because of this.

With Jacob he's just like "Welp. Cerberus."

Didn't realize he was just as lackluster with Miranda though.

greed

05-13-2011, 02:12 AM

I think you mentioned him in the context of romance options but I am not joking when I say that I 100% hope their "no new party members" thing just means no NEWLY INTRODUCED characters as party members.

Verner just deserves to be a squad member.

You know it, deep down.

Like, I don't even care if he has any abilities or weapons, I just want to hear his dialog all the time in response to all of these genuinely dangerous situations.

Imagine if you could've brought him along to fight the Shadow Broker, who had a special line of dialog for whichever 3rd party member you had at your side! "THANK YOU FOR BRINGING SHEPARD, HIS HEAD WILL FETCH A HIGH PRICE. I DO NOT KNOW WHO THIS OTHER MAN IS BUT I DON'T KNOW MAYBE HE WILL BE SELLABLE TOO."

I want you to arrive at Earth at like the halfway point of the game get into a thoroughly unsurvivable situation then get single-handedly saved by the heroic leader of the human resistance, who takes off his helmet and reveals Verner, just as much of goon as before, just one able to kill revenants with his cigarette while pirouetting midair.

Krylo

05-13-2011, 02:33 AM

I just want to take a moment to acknowledge that the Arrival was fucking horrible. Just bad in every conceivable way. Not even a little good.

Okay. Done. Continue discussing ME3.

Osterbaum

05-13-2011, 03:13 AM

Arrival was just a weak cash-in. It's evident in how little impact it has on the plot.

Krylo

05-13-2011, 03:46 AM

Well it has some impact. It explains where the reapers are coming from, when they'll get there, and lets us know what the timeline of the next game will be.

The problem was really in execution. I mean first of all the story makes absolutely no sense unless you've beaten the game first, but it's still open to you at any point like any other DLC. I mean you have 2 hours before the reapers arrive... and I'm supposed to feel like I accomplished something when I blow up the reaper base? If I did that first, the Reapers are already in the galaxy. RIGHT THEN.

Then there's the thing where you can't actually warn the Batarians because you get cut off and there's no option to finish your warning quick before running off, leaving the only real decision you get in the DLC completely neutered.

And as just another bit of 'fuck you' they give you weapons upgrades, but don't let you get back to the Normandy to upgrade shit. Which is completely pointless. They're only worth anything if you do this before everything else, but if you don't do it last it totally fucks up the narrative of both the DLC and the main game. So why put them in there?

It was pure thoughtlessness.

Why give us a choice that doesn't matter?

And the level design was just fucking horrible. I mean, really, the worst in the series.

Add on top of that the fact that Harbinger still shows up as a hologram if you play it earlier... but as the collector general saying all the same shit, and you've just got a huge nonsensical horribly executed mess.

It set up some things for the sequel, namely the time frame, a looming war with the batarians/terminus systems, diplomatic issues regarding presenting a unified front against the reapers given said war, the fact that Shepard has got a court martial waiting for him/her, and the fact that the relays can be destroyed.

But the execution was utter shit.

Osterbaum

05-13-2011, 05:12 AM

Why give us a choice that doesn't matter?
This sums up the whole DLC. Everything in it could've been acomplished with some exposition in the beginning of ME3.

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

05-13-2011, 09:39 AM

Yeah, but everyone who ISN'T Jacob or Miranda he says something about how they're famous for this or excellent at that or worth money because of this.

With Jacob he's just like "Welp. Cerberus."

Didn't realize he was just as lackluster with Miranda though.

Relevant. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AePYwVjtpq4) Skip to 1.20.

One problem with that is it doesn't show if there's any different dialogue for certain characters if you do the DLC before the loyalty missions, which there might be for Kasumi and maybe Samara, not sure though.

Solid Snake

05-13-2011, 10:06 AM

I just want to take a moment to acknowledge that the Arrival was fucking horrible. Just bad in every conceivable way. Not even a little good.

Almost entirely agreed, but I will concede that I was glad to see Admiral Hackett again.
Also, after how legitimately amazing Shadow Broker was -- probably the best DLC I've ever played -- I almost felt like Bioware had earned itself a pass.

By contrast, there was no similar standout in DA:O's DLC (Awakening would have counted if it was sold as a $15 DLC instead of a $40 expansion pack), which was why I was much more pissed off with Witch Hunt.

Krylo

05-13-2011, 05:19 PM

Also, after how legitimately amazing Shadow Broker was -- probably the best DLC I've ever played -- I almost felt like Bioware had earned itself a pass.

By contrast, there was no similar standout in DA:O's DLC (Awakening would have counted if it was sold as a $15 DLC instead of a $40 expansion pack), which was why I was much more pissed off with Witch Hunt.

I'd agree except for a couple of things:

Firstly, this was supposed to move the main plot forward creating a bridge between games. It needed to be good, you can't half ass something like that. Well obviously you CAN, but there's no good excuse for it.

Secondly, DA:O's DLC were pretty much all just little side missions. Excuses to kill some more shit and get some loot. None of them purported to be important story shit. Witch Hunt was disappointing, but it didn't really have anything plot relevant to tell us. It was just some extra combat, some extra loot, and a little information on eluvians.

Thirdly: ME, in general, is just much more polished than DA is as a franchise. I expect better from ME. I'm not going to expect a DLC that's better than the primary game, for the most part... but I'm also not going to expect one that's horribly worse. This, itself, earns DA's DLC a little more leeway for me.

Fourthly: I'm pretty sure it was done by the same team that did the DA DLCs. That's hearsay, couldn't find any articles talking about who did it on a quick google search, but if true they don't really get a pass.

Osterbaum

05-14-2011, 04:49 AM

I expect better from ME. I'm not going to expect a DLC that's better than the primary game, for the most part... but I'm also not going to expect one that's horribly worse.
Add to that the fact that Lair of the Shadow Broker was a pretty damn good piece of DLC and it is very fair to say that expectations were high for Arival.

Solid Snake

05-14-2011, 10:09 AM

Add to that the fact that Lair of the Shadow Broker was a pretty damn good piece of DLC and it is very fair to say that expectations were high for Arival.
Eh, if given the choice I'd just prefer ME2's inconsistent and unpredictable "sometimes incredible, sometimes crappy, at least a few have a significant impact on the story" approach to DA:O's "consistently mediocre, never important" DLC.

Mind you, I'd prefer like every DLC Bioware makes to be Overlord or Land of the Shadow Broker quality, but I'm assuming that's just simply an unrealistic and impossible expectation. To be quite honest I'm not sure whether Bioware actually lost money on Shadow Broker insofar as it wouldn't surprise me if it cost more to make than it could recover given its cheap cost.

Honestly, though, I'd rather pay $25 for another Shadow Broker than $25 on, say, a smattering of Witch Hunts, Firewalkers and Arrivals. Maybe the solution is less DLC overall, and more expensive DLC, but more DLC that's polished and that actually matters.

Melfice

05-14-2011, 10:15 AM

I think Firewalker should be given an exempt status.

While it's DLC, and priced accordingly, it was mostly a test-balloon for BioWare.
The Mako wasn't received very well. Instead, BioWare then created the Hammerhead to see if vehicular exploration is still viable. I think the results were positive of the Hammerhead section? And the vehicle in general.

So, I believe vehicular exploration and/or combat will return improved in ME3, thanks to otherwise insignificant DLC.

Speaking of Mass Effect 3.
Think EA has the decency to just title the game Mass Effect 3, instead of something witty, like Mass 3ffect?
Or, innovative, like Mass 3ff3ct?

EDIT: I think I went all over the place with my thoughts here.
If it makes sense, feel free to respond. Otherwise, ignore.

Kerensky287

05-14-2011, 01:00 PM

I think the Hammerhead was bitchin'.

I just wish it was easier to tell when you were taking damage than a vague "bleep-bleep" that starts several seconds after you've reached bleep-bleep range. Playing Firewalker on Insane was immensely frustrating.

Krylo

05-14-2011, 01:35 PM

Eh, if given the choice I'd just prefer ME2's inconsistent and unpredictable "sometimes incredible, sometimes crappy, at least a few have a significant impact on the story" approach to DA:O's "consistently mediocre, never important" DLC.

Mind you, I'd prefer like every DLC Bioware makes to be Overlord or Land of the Shadow Broker quality, but I'm assuming that's just simply an unrealistic and impossible expectation. To be quite honest I'm not sure whether Bioware actually lost money on Shadow Broker insofar as it wouldn't surprise me if it cost more to make than it could recover given its cheap cost.

Honestly, though, I'd rather pay $25 for another Shadow Broker than $25 on, say, a smattering of Witch Hunts, Firewalkers and Arrivals. Maybe the solution is less DLC overall, and more expensive DLC, but more DLC that's polished and that actually matters.

But see, none of that excuses Arrival being shitty, because, again, Arrival was supposed to be the bridge between series. It's part of the main plot, a continuation of ME2, and a prequel to ME3.

Something holding that status should not be shitty. Overlord could have been excused for being shitty. Arrival can not.

Osterbaum

05-14-2011, 01:48 PM

The Mako wasn't received very well. Instead, BioWare then created the Hammerhead to see if vehicular exploration is still viable. I think the results were positive of the Hammerhead section? And the vehicle in general.
The Firewalker vehicle was pretty bad. It completely broke the suspension of desbelief for me. The Mako was much more believable, much more fun to drive around. In ME1 it was the long and ardous driving around the surface of a barren planet dozens of times that was bad, not the Mako itself. The Firewalker tank-thingy is not an iprovement, on the contrary.

Melfice

05-14-2011, 02:02 PM

The Firewalker vehicle was pretty bad. It completely broke the suspension of desbelief for me. The Mako was much more believable, much more fun to drive around. In ME1 it was the long and ardous driving around the surface of a barren planet dozens of times that was bad, not the Mako itself. The Firewalker tank-thingy is not an iprovement, on the contrary.

Tastes differ.
I had no problem with the Mako either. The terrains it was dropped in more so.

So, people complained, Bioware took the Mako out, because you know how that goes.
Instead, they put in the Hammerhead, with a far more linear map, and terrain that's specifically adapted for it. As a test balloon to see if vehicular sections are completely fallen from grace, or if it was just the vehicle (as people complained about. Never specifying it was the terrain that horribly sucked balls.)

On execution, Firewalker wins. Simply because it's tuned to each other.
The Mako was more my favourite too, but if we can only get a mix of Mako and Firewalker, I'll be content.

EDIT: As for suspension of disbelief... eh. We've already got blue skinned aliens.
If anything, the hovercraft-like Hammerhead would fall out of place for being too mundane, in my opinion.

Osterbaum

05-14-2011, 02:22 PM

I'm not sure what it was, but there was something about the Hammerhead that I just didn't find believable even in the context of the ME universe.

Kerensky287

05-14-2011, 02:23 PM

The Firewalker vehicle was pretty bad. It completely broke the suspension of desbelief for me. The Mako was much more believable, much more fun to drive around. In ME1 it was the long and ardous driving around the surface of a barren planet dozens of times that was bad, not the Mako itself. The Firewalker tank-thingy is not an iprovement, on the contrary.

I found that the Mako, with its bizarre inability to turn or understand what direction I am pushing with the analog stick, was very difficult to drive. I died more often from bottomless pits and being jammed against a wall than from the combat sequences themselves.

Similarly, the fact that all of its weapons seemed geared for long-range combat turned every encounter into either "Enemies a km away, zoom and shoot" or "Enemies spawning all around, drive a km away, zoom and shoot." With the second one there it would often turn into "Drive a km away OH CRAP a box, umm, well, let's try to get around it, back up, crash, oops, back up, crash, oops, explode."

The Hammerhead, on the other hand, was a BLAST to drive. It was responsive, it was quick, and the hover controls just seemed to mesh with the rest of the experience. Driving it felt the same, for me, as Sonic the Hedgehog did back when it was good.

The combat still sucked though because 1) no HUD means it's impossible to track your own damage, and 2) heat-seeking rockets are boring as hell for combat.

Solid Snake

05-14-2011, 03:28 PM

I'll concede that the Hammerhead was far easier to maneuver but I just found most of the Firewalker missions an absolute bore. The only one that wasn't an absolute snoozefest was that one where you actually fight the Geth, but my problem there was that I was on a very high difficulty setting and fuck the Geth on that difficulty setting, they absolutely wrecked my Hammerhead at every possible interval. Issues with computer lag and ME2 barely fitting my specs actually, for some reason, made the Mako easier to maneuver than the Hammerhead because the Hammerhead was so quick and mobile that, while I'm sure it'd look kickass on someone else's PC, it just led to excessive lllllllaaaaaaaaggggg and frequent errors in positioning on mine.

When controlling with a keyboard, the Mako isn't too big a problem because it's just an unresponsive giant lug period, but at least it moves slowly and poorly for everyone and doesn't move at such a rate that it leads to too many surprises. I mean sure it gets stuck on the crevices and jagged edges, but I felt comfort knowing everyone dealt with that bullshit. My Hammerhead problems on the other hand were limited to my own computer's inability to handle ME2 properly.

Then I bought ME2 for the PS3, and it became much easier to control, but fuck I still found the Hammerhead sessions boring. And that one Geth combat sequence is annoying as shit because you cannot save on the planet so if you die you have to restart the entire mission over again. That was never an issue with ME1 and the Mako, where I just saved where I damn well pleased.

The absolute worst was collecting the Cerberus data for the optional trophy in Overlord. On my difficulty level, like, TWO SHOTS from a turret and the Hammerhead went kaboom. Subsequently my strategy had to literally be -- find someplace to hide, duck out just long enough to get a couple shots on the turret, HIDE HIDE OH DEAR GOD I'M ON FIRE HIDE, repeat. To say it was the absolute worst experience I had in Mass Effect 2 would have been eerily accurate if not for the existence of Arrival and every conversation with Jacob.

By contrast, I've almost romanticized the Mako in ME1. Mind you, I'm well aware of its glaring flaws. But the Mako was fun because you actually got to explore optional worlds in a nonlinear fashion. Each world felt unique and unlike with some of the side worlds in ME2, which I felt were a bit overloaded with vistas and colors and imagery to the point where it almost began to feel expected, in ME1 there were a few legitimately awesome astronomical sights on planets that really captivated me.

There's something about just staring up at this:

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3210/maji.jpg

...That just captures the imagination in a way ME2 did not repeat for me.

Mind you, ME2 is still a better game than ME1 in nearly every imaginable way. That's just something rare about ME1 that I actually miss.

Krylo

05-14-2011, 06:18 PM

I preferred the planet where you could look up and see the OTHER PLANET that was tidally locked with the one you were on.

Also: Mako needed but one thing to be better; smarter jump jets. The jump jets, as they were, were completely useless for maneuvering around terrain, and were only good for jump dodging in combat. Any time you tried to use them to help you get over a difficult hill or something, you just went flying off it and fell back down to the ground, and even if you were trying to do that, the way it directed your momentum kept it from actually working out well most of the time.

Jets that shoot you at an angle about 45 degrees between the direction you are driving and up relative to the gravitational center of the planet would have fixed basically everything about it.

And turning with it was actually pretty simple. You guys just suck.

P.S. Hammerhead missions were boring as piss. It handled well and was cool or whatever, but holy shit were the missions boring. I prefer the Mako just for Feros, Therum, and Noveria.

Osterbaum

05-14-2011, 06:24 PM

I died more often from bottomless pits and being jammed against a wall than from the combat sequences themselves.
Maybe so, but that seems as much a problem with the locales as the Mako itself.

And turning with it was actually pretty simple. You guys just suck.
Also this. I didn't really find controlling the Mako that hard, atleast not on level terrain.

The Hammerhead was just a boring vehicle, not believable to me and felt stupid.

e: Someone explain to me what made the Hammerhead a cool vehicle? It's unimaginative, has a boring weapon. It just outright sucks. It broke my suspension of disbelief because I felt no one would actually make that sort of military vehicle in the ME universe or anyhwere else for that matter. Plust the DLC "missions" were just a waste of money. And it didn't even have this (http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3210/maji.jpg).

Overcast

05-14-2011, 07:27 PM

I didn't download the DLC. I don't down any from bioware unless it is free. Like all the fun I used to have in NWN.

Krylo

05-14-2011, 07:35 PM

e: Someone explain to me what made the Hammerhead a cool vehicle? It's unimaginative, has a boring weapon. It just outright sucks. It broke my suspension of disbelief because I felt no one would actually make that sort of military vehicle in the ME universe or anyhwere else for that matter. Plust the DLC "missions" were just a waste of money. And it didn't even have this (http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3210/maji.jpg).

Hovercraft + Jump Jets that actually work + Missiles.

Kerensky287

05-14-2011, 07:43 PM

If they keep the Hammerhead for ME3 I hope they have some missions designed to its strengths a little more. Perhaps some high-speed platforming, weaker (but more numerous) enemies, perhaps a boss or two... like, say they give you a big stretch of freeway that you have to use to chase down a Reaper ship, shooting at targets of opportunity and weaving around cars/gaps/other obstacles so you can keep up with it and destroy it before it hits a major military base. Or something.

Any time I found the Hammerhead missions boring it was either because a) there was no reason to do anything but hide behind a rock and shoot missiles with jumpjets or b) machine guns do way too much fucking damage to it on Insane.

Osterbaum

05-14-2011, 07:43 PM

I just find all three of those; tiringly unoriginal, overpowered and thus immersion breaking and boring.

Toast

05-14-2011, 07:50 PM

meh, the hammerhead was a pretty piss-poor hovercraft, considering you couldn't keep it aloft for more than a few seconds. Even though it somehow managed to gain enough altitude to get back to the Normandy once the mission was over.

All in all, I really liked the mako driving sections of the story planets, I'd like that to return in me3. I wouldn't mind there being one or two open, explorable planets like the me1 sidequests, just so long as they're not the majority.

The hammerhead was kind of fun to drive around, but that's all you got to do with it--drive around. It's a hovertank for frig's sake! I'm kind of glad it was free.

To be honest, I'd have paid for a dlc that let me use that mercenary gunship, or something like it. That's what Shep should really be exploring planets in, not something that has to hug the ground.

Krylo

05-14-2011, 08:49 PM

meh, the hammerhead was a pretty piss-poor hovercraft, considering you couldn't keep it aloft for more than a few seconds. I don't think you know what a hovercraft is.

Overcast

05-14-2011, 09:16 PM

I dunno the Israeli are making hovercraft that are supposed to take the place of military helicopters for evacuation in more enclosed environments. The prototypes fly, not high, but they float over buildings.

Krylo

05-14-2011, 09:24 PM

Pretty sure those are either hovercraft/helicopter (or jet) hybrids then or not actually true hovercrafts at all, as that hovercrafts travel on a cushion of high pressure air and are not classified as aircraft. You, literally, can't keep a cushion of high pressure are under you to lift you more than a couple feet off the ground. Because, being high pressure, it tends to disperse.

Are you sure it's not just using a system similar to the vertical take off systems used in modern fighter jets... or remote controlled helicopters? Because that honestly makes a lot more sense.

Overcast

05-14-2011, 10:10 PM

Well it is certainly not using the VTOL, but it could be using heli tech. The major difference is rather than having a huge rotor that is freely spinning just above the craft it is contained in the fuselage. We have remote controlled ones that are much smaller already in use for surveillance which get pretty good use in modern warfare videogames, just think that but bigger.

Krylo

05-14-2011, 10:53 PM

Yeah, I think those are technically considered helicopters.

Overcast

05-16-2011, 03:19 PM

And then Mass Effect 3 got gayer. (http://twitter.com/#%21/CaseyDHudson/status/69833443067969536)

Krylo

05-16-2011, 03:32 PM

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice

Melfice

05-16-2011, 03:38 PM

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice

Nicccce. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgoXUzIwXk0&feature=related)

Aerozord

05-16-2011, 03:41 PM

Overcast

05-16-2011, 03:47 PM

I have one series of character that didn't touch anyone because I saw this coming.

EDIT: "Wrex." "Shepard." Can you feel the sexual tension?

Melfice

05-16-2011, 03:50 PM

read this (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110063-Its-Old-Flames-Only-in-Mass-Effect-3-Says-BioWare-UPDATED) and thought, I hope you aren't hit too hard for being unfaithful, since my main reason for being so in ME2 was because the love interest I wanted since ME1, wasn't available then.

Ashley was being a bitch when we met up again.
She can either deal with the fact I've moved on with Tali and move on, or eat lead. My Shep is done with her. :crossarms:

Solid Snake

05-16-2011, 04:03 PM

And then Mass Effect 3 got gayer. (http://twitter.com/#%21/CaseyDHudson/status/69833443067969536)

...I'm kind of confused as to how that works exactly with Bioware's earlier pronouncement that no new characters introduced would be LI options.

Krylo

05-16-2011, 04:05 PM

My guess: Kaiden and Tali now go gay.

Overcast

05-16-2011, 04:06 PM

Kaiden definitely came off like a jaded ex rather than a friend I haven't been able to talk to for a few years. And he did connect pretty closely to me on the first game. Another reason I killed Ashley. There are far too many good reasons to kill Ashley.

Aerozord

05-16-2011, 04:38 PM

I still remember the biggest dick move that I got away with in ME1

Back when you have to select which human goes boom, I honestly picked Ashley simply because I just dumped her and wanted to avoid problems later.

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk

05-16-2011, 05:06 PM

I wonder though, how it will work for my Shep. Having only played ME2 (on ps3), and missing out the backstory comic (thus no choices on former relationship going into the sequel) and then not actually starting a relationship with anyone during ME2. Is my Shep doomed to be single forever, or can I just shack up with ANY available characters at some point?

Kerensky287

05-16-2011, 05:06 PM

...I'm kind of confused as to how that works exactly with Bioware's earlier pronouncement that no new characters introduced would be LI options.

What they said was that the earlier pronouncement was made at an earlier stage in development. I mean, that's the official word I heard. It confuses me too.

So I dunno, maybe they said it and then a few weeks later went "Eeeeeeehhhhhh... lesbians."

Aerozord

05-16-2011, 05:35 PM

thats one of the reasons you normally dont hear much about a game until very late in development. If you follow commentaries and interviews with developers things get added and removed all the time, and I dont mean minor things, sometimes entire mechanics.

Originally they probably felt adding more love interests would be too much on the programmers but later found out they could manage it

Melfice

05-17-2011, 12:20 AM

...I'm kind of confused as to how that works exactly with Bioware's earlier pronouncement that no new characters introduced would be LI options.

.@trickfred "no new LI's" was an oversimplification of an answer I gave back in early Apr. And things always evolve in mid-production.

Source: http://twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/70160485537947648

Solid Snake

05-17-2011, 10:56 AM

Heh. So maybe you can mack it up with this new James character.

I'm still waiting to hear which ME2 characters will be back as permanent squaddies.

Osterbaum

05-17-2011, 11:02 AM

At one point there was some talk about how squad mates would've changed, not only in appearance but their character aswell. They used Jack as an example; something about maybe she'd have some hair and put on a bit more clothing and would be a bit less of a psycho. Anyway, the fact that they used Jack as an example seemed to imply she'd have a big role which I suspect would be as a squad mate.

e: I'm just going to speculate here for a bit. Just a complete guess, mostly. But let's say you get 8 team members (since they said you would have less than before): Kaidan/Ashley, Liara, Tali, Garrus, Grunt, Jack, James whoever and Miranda. Of course 10 squad mates would still be less than in ME2, so let's add two more: Mordin, Legion.

Solid Snake

05-17-2011, 11:34 AM

e: I'm just going to speculate here for a bit. Just a complete guess, mostly. But let's say you get 8 team members (since they said you would have less than before): Kaidan/Ashley, Liara, Tali, Garrus, Grunt, Jack, James whoever and Miranda. Of course 10 squad mates would still be less than in ME2, so let's add two more: Mordin, Legion.

Definitely think there will be more than one new teammate, and I also think Legion and Jack are almost definitely permanent squadmates based on Bioware's frequent prattling on how they "updated" them.

The more I hear the less I'm convinced Miranda will actually be permanent squaddie material, actually. Though I'm sure she'll join you when you finally take on the Illusive Man.

Osterbaum

05-17-2011, 11:40 AM

Yeah and there was also some talk about how some team mates might be with you but not participate in missions and such?

Personally I hope they don't add more than two new squad mates because we already have enough good ones to choose from. Also I'd much rather see more time spent on a growing relationships with the team mates you already know instead of building new ones.

Aerozord

05-17-2011, 12:32 PM

Yeah and there was also some talk about how some team mates might be with you but not participate in missions and such?

personaly I think it should be possible to have everyone of your old squadmates on your side even if they aren't mission choices. This should be so hard to pull off its unlikely unless you go back and play both with the intent of getting that result, but still I'd like it to be possible

Solid Snake

05-17-2011, 02:59 PM

Yeah and there was also some talk about how some team mates might be with you but not participate in missions and such?

Don't have the link on me but Bioware pretty much confirmed that Mordin (if alive) was going to hang on the Normandy as your scientist, but not join in any missions.
(I've speculated before as to the possibility that Mordin might still "pull a Liara" from Shadow Broker and join Shepard on a specific mission to the Salarian homeworld or something, but that's just my speculation.)

Krylo

05-17-2011, 05:59 PM

Mordin may be side lined because he's old as fuck. Salarians don't live that long, remember, and he was already old enough to be considered a retiree at the beginning of ME2.

Osterbaum

05-17-2011, 07:07 PM

I'm personally wondering about Thane. His condition didn't give him that long to live. I wonder what kind of a part he'll play in the game.

MildShow

05-17-2011, 07:36 PM

I'm personally wondering about Thane. His condition didn't give him that long to live. I wonder what kind of a part he'll play in the game.

I think there was something in Lair of the Shadow Broker about how he could get a lung transplant, but I'm not sure if they'll go that route.

As for characters who'll be sidelined, I think they'll go with Samara or Morinth, Zaeed, and Kasumi, the latter two on the basis of being DLC characters and Samara just because I feel like she was completely incidental to ME2's plot, and really doesn't have anything more to add. I can also see them sidelining Grunt, maybe having him challenge Wrex/Wreav for the leadership of Urdnot

Overcast

05-17-2011, 09:06 PM

I would shoot Grunt pretty much immediately. Of course I don't know who Wreav is, because I would never kill Wrex.

BitVyper

05-22-2011, 08:44 PM

Just finished Shadow Broker. Miranda's chatlogs are fantastic. Also hahahaha @ Legion's gamer profile; "tactics better than possible without knowledge of underlying code behaviour."

If ME3 doesn't show me Grunt's action figure collection, I shall be most displeased.

Solid Snake

06-02-2011, 02:47 PM

Compilation of Information Released by Casey Hudson and other sources in the Past Couple Weeks:

* James Vega (renamed from Sanders, apparently), Liara, Tali, Garrus, and Ashley / Kaidan are the confirmed squadmates. Jack may or may not be confirmed; see below.

* (I've read multiple sources claiming that Jack's since been officially confirmed as a squadmate but I can't find the original source from anywhere in Bioware, so I'm leaving that out.) Adding: I found the source that claims Jack returns as a squad member: Here. (http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/219346/all-about-mass-effect-3/) It's the only source of that nugget of information and Hudson did not explicitly confirm Jack on twitter, so I'm not convinced.

* Jack will be more mature as a character, have hair (a ponytail) and be wearing clothes.

* Miranda and Jacob return and they both have 'big roles' that are being kept under wraps. (I'm guessing there's a correlation with the new Cerberus storyline.)

* Admiral Hackett is returning and will have a larger role in ME3 than in previous installments.

* Shepard can now have longer hair.

* Joker is returning and will likely have a bigger role in the game (as Seth Green will be recording twelve hours of dialogue for him. Not all of that will be used, but it seems like an increase.)

* There are unconfirmed rumors of a new female 'vigilante' character. (Emily Kirkwood Hopkins, who I've never heard of, apparently has something to do with this. Her name's been thrown around.)

* All the original voice actors for major characters in previous games are returning.

* Wrex, Mordin, Thane, Zaeed and Kasumi are confirmed to not be full-time squad members, but everyone on that list has been confirmed to at least appear in a cameo in ME3 in they are alive. Wrex and Mordin involved with Shepard in a mission to rescue a Krogan "princess." (Yes, there are apparently Krogan 'princesses.' I was not happy to see several sites rely on the term.)

* James Sanders has been renamed to James Vega. (I honestly preferred Sanders.)

* Liara became the new Shadow Broker whether you played through that DLC or not. (Doesn't stop her from joining Shep, though.)

* Legion has been confirmed to return but may or may not be a permanent squadmate.

* Shepard can drive an enemy mech after defeating it if it's left intact.

* Looks like we'll have the typical male-Shepard trailer in E3, but Bioware's working on a fem-Shepard trailer that won't be ready by then.

There will be a demo in E3, too.

Melfice

06-02-2011, 03:00 PM

* James Sanders has been renamed to James Vega. (I honestly preferred Sanders.)

Yeah, but I'm guessing people were assuming a link between Kahlee Sanders and James where there was none.

The curse of videogames, I guess. You never have two characters share a name. So when they do share one (surname, at least), they're automatically related.

EDIT: In the end, I probably won't care much.
He'll just be little Jimmy taking care of my fish back on the Normandy, (or whatever it is he'll be doing) unless he'll be such a great asset to the team.

Kim

06-02-2011, 03:06 PM

I thought it was a link between him and Colonel Sanders...

Revising Ocelot

07-08-2011, 01:54 PM

http://store.origin.com/store/ea/en_US/html/pbPage.me3_US/

Welp, that sucks.

Kim

07-08-2011, 02:02 PM

I'm actually totally fine with EA having special stuff if you buy it off their store.

Melfice

07-08-2011, 02:02 PM

http://store.origin.com/store/ea/en_US/html/pbPage.me3_US/

Welp, that sucks.

You'll have to tell me what sucks, since I'm not seeing much related to Mass Effect 3.

Though, I can hazard a guess that this has something to do with ME3 now being Origin exclusive and not available on Steam.

EDIT: Oh, I see the problem. I'm automatically being relinked to the Dutch version of the Origin website. Exclusive content, eh?
*shrugs*
I'll be getting some, if not most, of that with my 360 version.

Though, I gotta wonder... Mechdog Companion? Seriously? Pets?

Revising Ocelot

07-08-2011, 02:04 PM

Though, I can hazard a guess that this has something to do with ME3 now being Origin exclusive and not available on Steam.

That's precisely it.

I've already got ME1 and 2 on Steam, and I don't want to be forced into using Origin. It'a almost ironic that ME2 is on sale on Steam today, too.

Kim

07-08-2011, 02:08 PM

That's precisely it.

I've already got ME1 and 2 on Steam, and I don't want to be forced into using Origin. It'a almost ironic that ME2 is on sale on Steam today, too.

You're misreading it. It's not saying Mass Effect 3 is only on Origin. It's saying you can only get the specific bonus content it lists there on Origin. It's really not a big deal.

Melfice

07-08-2011, 02:11 PM

Was making a conclusion based on the recent EA vs. Steam scuffle, due to not being linked properly.
If it's just about exclusive I'm caring even less than I was before.

Revising Ocelot

07-08-2011, 02:14 PM

You're misreading it. It's not saying Mass Effect 3 is only on Origin. It's saying you can only get the specific bonus content it lists there on Origin. It's really not a big deal.

I'm not seeing anywhere on the ME3 site that allows you to preorder it from anywhere but Origin. And yes, I do believe this is the next step from Crysis 2 and BF3 not being on Steam at all.

Kim

07-08-2011, 02:18 PM

I'm not seeing anywhere on the ME3 site that allows you to preorder it from anywhere but Origin. And yes, I do believe this is the next step from Crysis 2 and BF3 not being on Steam at all.

Does Steam normally let you pre-order games eight months before release?

Serious question.

Revising Ocelot

07-08-2011, 02:20 PM

Does Steam normally let you pre-order games eight months before release?

Serious question.

Not sure of the precise time, but Deus Ex: Human Revolution has been up since at least April.

Kim

07-08-2011, 02:22 PM

I think I'd wait for some sort of confirmation that Steam won't be carrying it before assuming they won't. It's still quite a while until release, and even if they are claiming they won't carry it now, it's probably just Steam butting heads with EA over exclusive content, and is probably something that *can* be resolved before release.

Marc v4.0

07-08-2011, 02:30 PM

The Witcher 2 was available preorder at least 8 months in advance.

Kim

07-08-2011, 02:44 PM

Melfice

07-08-2011, 03:03 PM

Actually, I thought it was EA who were throwing the fit because THEY couldn't deliver the patches and DLC on their own.

Though, I figure that may be what you meant?

But I'm hardly the best informed on this matter.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche

07-08-2011, 03:10 PM

One thing I'm hearing is that Steam are the ones who pulled Crysis 2, due to the developers doing something or other they didn't like with how they chose to distribute it. Anybody have any more info on this?

EDIT: Apparently its Steam throwing a fit because they aren't able to provide the patches and DLC themselves or some such?

EA's enacted a policy that they want to be able to have communication with any and all people who purchase the games. They're saying this is about informing people of patches, which they will exclusively host on their site/service. But most people I talk to think it's really so they can advertise through your email.

Valve at some point or another guaranteed they'd never share client info without consent. Certainly not to other businesses for the purpose of sending unwanted information.

Solid Snake

08-01-2011, 08:25 PM

...Bioware
Why do you have to be so bad Bioware
I mean I love you
I love Mass Effect
But why do you and your legions of fans have to be so bad

Eltargrim

08-01-2011, 10:41 PM

I am confused. What?

Solid Snake

08-04-2011, 12:22 PM

I am confused. What?

Bioware let stupid gamers transform Jennifer Hale's badass portrayal of a tough-as-nails FemShep into a beautiful blonde Barbie doll, following the exact trajectory of Samus Aran and every other once-tough tomboyish female character in the history of videogames

IHateMakingNames

08-04-2011, 12:27 PM

Yes, being attractive and blond is such a terrible thing. Now if they had chosen the attractive brunette, oh well then no problem.

I'm sure they'll change her personality from the last two games because of this. Poor Male Shepard though, now he'll have to act differently because of this change.

Solid Snake

08-04-2011, 12:46 PM

Yes, being attractive and blond is such a terrible thing. Now if they had chosen the attractive brunette, oh well then no problem.

I felt at least three and possibly four of the candidates were entirely permissible interpretations of FemShep.
And then there were the princesses who merited being in a beauty pageant more than headbutting Krogans, and unsurprisingly, they were the top vote-getters.

Barbie-Shep headbutting a Krogan in ME2, now that's a sight to see.

Kim

08-04-2011, 12:50 PM

The problem isn't new FemShep's appearance, persay. It's that her appearance clearly shows that the vast majority of voters thought of the new FemShep contest as nothing more than a beauty pageant. Which it was always going to turn into, to be honest. I don't have a problem with FemShep being blond. I have a problem with FemShep's previous appearance "not being good enough" and her being held to a different standard than MaleShep, and that her appearance had to be decided via beauty pageant, which was never the case for MaleShep.

And that's all there really is to say on the matter.

Solid Snake

08-04-2011, 12:58 PM

I don't have a problem with FemShep being blond.

Neither do I. I'm not referring to femShep as "Barbie Shep" just because of her hair color.
It's just utterly bizarre to imagine femShep waking up every morning in the Normandy and wasting time making herself look so pretty with such a snazzy little hairdo that must require maintenance and a picture-perfect physique.

It's just strange that we have so much variety in male characters in gaming and yet when it comes to women -- well, see Samus Aran's recent design, compare it to official femShep's and tell me what the difference is.

(Also I have no problem with femShep being "attractive" but have you seen Barbie-Shep? Unrealistically beautiful. And Bioware really did femShep a disservice by giving viewers three nearly-identical options -- 1, 2 and 3 -- that were all serviceable and believable, but not doing any recolors of blondeShep to divide that vote. The semi-realistic tomboyish Sheps never stood a chance, they were competing against each other as well as the Barbie dolls.)

Krylo

08-04-2011, 01:13 PM

2, and 3 weren't 'tomboyish'. They were Schoolmarm. And honestly pulling hair back that tight and doing a bun is more work than any of the other styles would have been.

5, the blonde one, looks like it would actually require the least morning work of any other than 1. Four would require flat ironing or moussing, while 6 would require hair clips and other things to get it to sit that way. And 2 and 3 would require doing your hair up in a bun every morning.

The blonde one just looks like it's left long and combed out. It's supposed to be 'messy but attractive'. 1 looks proper tomboyish.

Facial structure and make up wise they're ALL pretty much exactly the same. I mean even Shepard one with the boy hair cut has enough eyeliner on to kill a rampaging krogan, so I'm not seeing where you're going there. I guess 3 looks like she might have a scar (but it's hard to tell with the image sizes I was able to find and the lightness of it) and 5 has a beauty mark which is kinda silly.

Meanwhile 4 and 6's hair would both actively get in the way of fighting. Bangs are goddamn annoying.

Really the only two that make any sense are 1 and 5. And which one makes more sense just depends on whether you think Shepard is the type to keep a military crew cut after being allowed to grow it out however she likes.

Edit: Honestly I didn't like any of the options that much. But I might just be overly connected to my personal femshep.