D&D: general talk, rules questions and advice thread (d20 roll dice everyday)

[tacticslion]

Whelp, the "Let's Help Snake..." thread is about DnD, but it seems... specific. And I'm a greedy pompous windbag and need help, so I'm making a thread dedicated to ME! ... er... that is... I mean, dedicated to helping anyone else who needs it. Yeah! That's it! (they'll never suspect a thing).

Anyhoo, sadness of all sadnesses, this (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Templates.pdf) is gone for some unknown reason and unknown duration of time. And I need templates. Specifically the Alu-fiend, several of the more unique undead, and a few of the other "halfsies", not to mention the one where you were a speaker for fire, or whatever, and had the ability to cut off the powers of other creatures based on fire. Anyone got anything to help me out? Anyone know why the page has vanished off of the internets? Anyone know if it moved reliably somewhere else? Anyone need any other DnD advice? Anyone know just exactly who was the last of the Mohecans? Anyone?

[The Argent Lord]

http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/
"All files withdrawn at the request of Wizards of the Coast."

I don't know of anywhere else they are, unfortunately.

[Nikose Tyris]

Give me your email, Tacticslion. I've got some PDFs I've saved previously for you.

[Pip Boy]

I have a D&D related question. A bunch of freaks just came to our monastery and started walking around like they thought they owned the place. We already had to remove an unruly Paladin from our walls. But something about it all seems suspicious. When the newcomers said they were here to investigate, the Elder knew immediately where to take them before they even specified what they were searching for. The asshole Paladin even seemed distraught by something in the temple, as if he saw something we hadn't just before he started being an asshole. On one hand, I don't trust these humans. On the other hand, if they're right and any corruption still lingers in our leadership, I may be forced to kill my own master. My question is this:

Do you know any good recipes for human? Its very likely we'll be eating at least one of them soon, and I don't want to waste a good opportunity like this by poorly cooking them.

[tacticslion]

I have a D&D related question. A bunch of freaks just came to our monastery and started walking around like they thought they owned the place. We already had to remove an unruly Paladin from our walls. But something about it all seems suspicious. When the newcomers said they were here to investigate, the Elder knew immediately where to take them before they even specified what they were searching for. The asshole Paladin even seemed distraught by something in the temple, as if he saw something we hadn't just before he started being an asshole. On one hand, I don't trust these humans. On the other hand, if they're right and any corruption still lingers in our leadership, I may be forced to kill my own master. My question is this:

Do you know any good recipes for human? Its very likely we'll be eating at least one of them soon, and I don't want to waste a good opportunity like this by poorly cooking them.

First: what the crap kind of monastery you got?
Also, what race are you?
Finally, what kind of corruption are you talking about, here? I mean, you're planning on eating people and all already...

Second: I hear their hearts might go well when saute'ed in garlic to soften them up and really bring out that "hearty" flavor. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0738.html)

Edit:
I'd be remiss if I didn't say this, but Nikose seems like an awesome guy. I mean:
I've got some PDFs I've saved previously for you.
Dude, I've never even met you (that I know of)*! Thanks!
Also, Nikose, check your PM.

*I don't expect that it was actually solely for me that you saved these things, but that's really cool nonetheless.

[Pip Boy]

Our monastery is hidden far in the wilderness, and is dedicated to the dragon god Io. I personally am a kobold, but members of many dragonblooded races make their homes in the monastery. As for the corruption, our former master was involved with some Shady sorts of people. We think he may have been consorting with the Drow. I don't know all the details myself, since he kicked me out, and I haven't been welcomed back until recently, now that he's died.

I keep thinking fried, but most fried foods taste the same to me. Won't really get any of the flavor out of the meat. I'll probably just cook it on a spit over a fire.

[DarkDrgon]

I think the best use of this thread is seriously to talk about why the bard is a necessary part to every adventuring party

[Ravashak]

To feed to dragons while you're pulling Brave Sir Robins?

[Meister]

I dunno what kind of bards you guys are used to but the one in my group is responsible for all the healing, knows songs that can get almost anyone to do almost anything for you no questions asked, and has on more than one occasion insulted opponents so harshly they died on the spot. Clearly you need a bard if only so you don't have to kill everything with boring old swords and fireballs.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Bards are fully and absolutely the best character class.
Speak language as a class skill is totally aces.
If you got a high level bard in between his absurd diplomacy, his various mind altering tricks and his bardic knowledge you really shouldn't have to fight basically anyone at all. And if you do he can make you all fight better, get some opponents to fight on your side, fight pretty well himself and then heal you up afterwards.

[Melfice]

and has on more than one occasion insulted opponents so harshly they died on the spot.

Why does that sound familiar...? (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2003/06/21/episode-298-a-natural-response/)

Of course, that wasn't so much an insult, but still.

[Meister]

That would be an entirely valid way for that particular spell to work, and one I'd encourage.

[walkertexasdruid]

I tried 4th ed. last week for the first time. It was alright, but I think that I will stick to 3.5. Now if the players who were supposed to begin with me would not get strickened with tonsalitus and mono, things would go much smoother for me. So some advice is needed, what do you do if your PCs are on their deathbeds? ;-)

[Vauron]

play in the hospital?

[Tev]

For any of you 4th ed players looking for a bit of entertainment, I wrote up a 4th edition Iron Chef Skill Challenge!

-Challenge rating is 3 (You must get 6 successes before 3 failures.)
-Relevant skills are: Arcana, Bluff, Diplomacy, Endurance, History, Insight, Intimidate, Nature, Perception, and Thievery.
-Succeeding this skill challenge will allow the dish of food you make to qualify as an actual competitive dish worthy of the judge's scrutiny. Failure means you don't even have a chance at becoming the next "Iron Chef Islandia!"

Back-story: You are a cook in the royal palace, but not the head chef. You have been eying that position for some time but the politics of court always seem to keep the job just out of your grasp. It's no secret among the nobles that you and the head chef don't get along, but it is only when a group of foreign dignitaries arrive at the royal palace that an opportunity presents itself. During court, one of your admirers suggests to the king a cooking competition to showcase the skills of his majesty's finest chef. When it is asked who his competitor would be, your name was the first off many courtly followers' lips. Quickly the game is decided upon. The both of you will be presented a theme ingredient from which to make a grand meal for the king and his visiting dignitaries. The heat will be on!

Insert theme music for mood! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4Hq8p5rbUE)

The stage is set! The king stands before the covered tray, hand grasping the silken cloth covering the main ingredient! Let the skill challenge begin!

Round 1: With a showy lift, the king reveals the theme ingredient: Griffin wing! What the hell? How do you cook griffin? What the hell does it even taste like? Chicken? Cat? You glance over to your enemy. He looks cool and calculating. You better not let him see you sweat. You put on your sternest "can do" face and shoot him an intimidating glare (Intimidate roll). Success! You have shaken his concentration giving you time to ascend to the table and get first pick at the choicest wing parts! At least you think they may be the choicest. I mean, you're still not quite sure what kind of meat this will even cook like. (Current score 1/0)

Round 2: Meaty wings in hand you move to your station, mind reeling with the possibilities. Do you fry this up? Baste it? Grill? You take a quick look at what you actually have here and try not to think of it as griffin so much as just another piece of meat as you try to identify what it's most like. (Insight roll) Another success! These wings are indeed somewhat like a chickens. You can see the heavier fat of the dark meat surround the overly large bone. You're pretty sure what you want to do with this now. You head off to the table of spices to pick your selection. (Current score 2/0)

Round 3: Reaching the table you go through your list. You know you need some garlic, salt, caraway, cloves. What else would help tie this bird...cat...thing together? (Nature roll) Failure! You know exactly what this needs! Some tarragon! Quickly you race over to where it should be only to find the space vacant. Looking around perplexedly you spy your needed spice on the table of your rival. He shoots you a wicked grin knowing he has dealt your dish a decisive blow! (Current score 2/1)

Round 4: You don't have time to worry about the tarragon now. Your griffin needs cooking. Giving it a good rubdown with your selected spices you place it in the oven to broil. Now you need to figure out how you are going to present this bird. It's large enough to serve on a platter, but just tossing a glorified chicken wing on a plate and presenting it to the king in front of his dignitaries won't get you promoted. Hell, it may get you terminated...and not in the healthy way. You think hard about the history between your nation and that of the dignitaries. (History roll) Success! Both peoples had come from a single island chain once. Though the separation had been a little rocky, after a few generations peace had settled and trade had made both countries strong. There was even rumor that this delegation was sent to see about marrying their island princess to you lord's eldest son in a bid to reunite the kingdoms when the last of this generation's kings had past. You decide on on your plating. The griffin wing will crest a wave of sea-green sauce, re-imagining the mountainous island from which both peoples came from and from which both will return united in strength. (Current score 3/1)

Round 5: While you are mixing your sauce together you realize that you are sorely missing that package of tarragon. It was part of your own father's recipe and without it, you may not be able to pull this whole thing together. Quickly you hatch a plan to get it back as you sneak a glace over at your rival's table. (Perception roll) Success! He's away looking for more ingredients! The pouch of tarragon is still sitting there, untouched; a hostage in this cooking duel. You let your greening sauce sit on the warming oven as you move ever closer to his table. (Current score 4/1)

Round 6: Looking around to be sure nobody is watching you reach for the unattended pouch. (Thieving roll) Failure! A hand grabs it from your reach and you look to see the head chef's assistant giving you a mocking glare! A smile to her lips, she opens the bag and pours it all into a stewing pot filled with you rival's chopped griffin flesh. Embarrassed, you slink back to your station. (Current score 4/2)

Round 7: Time is running out, your griffin almost done (you hope), you rush through your station plating the sauces, preparing the last of your side dishes, hoping that you'll get everything ready before the gong sounds the end. (Endurance roll) Success! You wipe the sweat from your brow as you pull the large wing from the oven and plate it just in time to hear the ringing of the gong. The duel is almost at an end. Now you must face your lord and his guests, explaining to them what you made and why. (Current score 5/2)

Final round: Your rival ascends to the main table first. He has made a griffin meat stew richly flavored in tarragon and his own secret blend. It is soft and creamy to the pallet and the king comments on how tender the griffin meat is. Of course he expects no less from his head chef. The rival delegation however are not as pleased. The tarragon is far too strong that it has cloyed the taste of the meat they say. Griffin meat is fragile they say, and must be carefully tended with softer herbs and spices to bring out it's best flavors. The king nods. This was in his mind as well. It is your turn. As your tray is settled before the king and the delegation, you tell of the inspiration of your dish. A softer flavor of griffin meat sitting in a sea of hearty oceanic sauce. Much like the island from which both peoples originated and and symbolizing the bond between the nations. (Diplomacy roll) Success! both the king and the delegation are pleased. Not just with the skill and imagination of your dish, but with the symbolism and respect shown to the cradle of both nations. As the court looks on, the head table enjoys the meals presented and begins deliberating a victor. (Final score 6/2)

Now, at this point you have earned the chance to win your king's favor. We just need to determine how your opponent actually did. If your GM already knows or had decided then you can just move on the victor or the loser (but with some major diplomatic benefits). If you want to go a more random route, roll percentage chance each round for the rival chef. 50/50 if he's actually a normal cook, 60/40 if he's pretty good, and 70/30 if he is indeed worthy of the title of head chef for the king. There were eight rounds so roll eight times. If you had more successes than he did you win. Simple as that.

Let it not be said you can't do fun shit in 4th Ed.

[Meister]

I was going to say I'd probably use Nature to determine what cuts and kinds of meat resemble one another but the use of History to tie plating a dish into a people's common past more than makes up for whatever little fault I could find in that. Plus, cooking contest. I approve of this!

[Tev]

It spawned out of an argument I had online with someone who said 4th Edition couldn't handle non-combat events very well.

[Meister]

I would say it probably doesn't handle them in as much detail as it does combat events but yeah I've found you can do noncombat scenes and adventures just fine. Which itself is a statement that really shouldn't need to be made explicitly. I mean why wouldn't you?

Throwing another example in the mix I made something tailored towards my group's bard the other day - another bard challenged her to an entertainment contest, each group of tavern guests would contribute a challenge, and they'd do opposing skill rolls, with the one who did better over the course of the evening being declared winner. Gave the enemy bard a spread of skills equivalent to a PC's, allowed the other party members to come up with ways to help out and make aid another rolls, and came up with a challenge for almost every skill on the list, from a group of Orc warriors challenging them to dodge thrown knives (Acrobatics) to an angel of death (it was that kind of tavern) asking for a spiritual song (Religion). It was a lot of fun.

[Tev]

I would say it probably doesn't handle them in as much detail as it does combat events but yeah I've found you can do noncombat scenes and adventures just fine. Which itself is a statement that really shouldn't need to be made explicitly. I mean why wouldn't you?I've found that most "4th Ed sux" arguments, at some point, bring up that there are far less skills in 4th compared to 3rd and so it sucks because their characters can't dooooo things.

I mean the guy I was arguing with spend over two hours trying to explain why 4th ed was crap because it didn't have a fishing skill.

Anyway, I finished up a decent Divine character only pilgrimage style campaign a while back, sadly with a "bad ending." But everyone had a good time and are looking forward to playing another campaign in the hellscape of their failure that became of my world a few years after they fell.

[tacticslion]

I've found that most "4th Ed sux" arguments, at some point, bring up that there are far less skills in 4th compared to 3rd and so it sucks because their characters can't dooooo things.

I mean the guy I was arguing with spend over two hours trying to explain why 4th ed was crap because it didn't have a fishing skill.

Anyway, I finished up a decent Divine character only pilgrimage style campaign a while back, sadly with a "bad ending." But everyone had a good time and are looking forward to playing another campaign in the hellscape of their failure that became of my world a few years after they fell.

First, that's a fantastically cool way to build a campaign world.

Second, let me say that you're smart, Tev. Very smart, from what I've seen online. But you're letting that ability ignore potentially valid points.

Third, I actually play 4th and enjoy it, but I still prefer third; yes, partially (though not exclusively) for the skills, and the cooking challenge you listed above is a great example of why. First, it's fun, humorous, and works as a great example of how 4th Ed handles things well - basically so long as a skill can be said to apply to a general category it can be used to simulate the effect. I like it!

The problem comes, to me, at least, at a) how specific it is. You've set up a fantastic series of things your players must do in order to succeed at the challenge. If they don't think of it, you've either got to count that as a failure, or tell them... either way, it feels kinda like railroading. Sure, you can make it so that if they come up with a creative use you can apply it, but you're still heavily limiting their options. Note: this isn't a bad skill-challenge you've built here. It's actually really good, has a lot of nice options to it, and it creates a fun place. But the players are still doing what you want, not what they want to accomplish the goal. Second - admittedly far less important for 'fun', but still there for me - is how broadly a given skill applies. A guy who's good at hunting and fishing, even one great with knives, wouldn't necessarily be the guy you want artfully arranging your potatoes. It's clever the way you link it, but it's feels somewhat stretched. This is kind of the opposite of the 'too specific' problem I present above - that it's 'too general' - but I think that the two complaints are about different enough aspects that they still hold water. The thing with Skill Challenges is that it's one of the best and worst concepts in 4E, simultaneously. Best in theory, worst in practice (to my experience).

All that said, I understand that 4E can handle things. Heck, it can handle anything. As in, at all. It just doesn't have the rules to cover it - the GM has to make those up. And that's where things start to lose me a bit, compared to other editions. Not everything runs the same way in a 4E world, something that, for me, is important to feel fully immersed. I never quite engage in the 4E world in the same way as 3.X, 'cause it always feels just a bit gamey, and less "real" somehow - like how NPCs and 'monsters' don't function like PCs.

I could go on, but I'm not going to convince you, and that's fine. I just wanted to show that there's valid points on both sides. That fishing skill can be important to immerse some people in reality, just as it's not important to you. I'm down with people that prefer 4E and 3.X - even those that are exclusive. I can swing both ways (on editions of DnD, only!). I just like 3.X better. Others don't. We coo'.

[Tev]

The problem comes, to me, at least, at a) how specific it is. You've set up a fantastic series of things your players must do in order to succeed at the challenge. If they don't think of it, you've either got to count that as a failure, or tell them... either way, it feels kinda like railroading. Sure, you can make it so that if they come up with a creative use you can apply it, but you're still heavily limiting their options. Note: this isn't a bad skill-challenge you've built here. It's actually really good, has a lot of nice options to it, and it creates a fun place. But the players are still doing what you want, not what they want to accomplish the goal.No see, you're missing something here. The skill challenge is as simple as "Get 6 successes before 3 failures." I only gave relevant skills as a guide (and if you check you'll see that they are most of the skills minus...like three) and while I could offer the list of helpful skills, there's nothing saying I wouldn't accept the unlisted ones if someone could offer up a decently entertaining reason for it. The example of the cooking contest was me as a player choosing skills that I thought would be good to use and entertaining as well as me as a GM taking what was happening and adding onto it for the next round.

Long story short, the goal is to hit 6 successes before 3 failures. How we get there is a free flowing adventure.

Second - admittedly far less important for 'fun', but still there for me - is how broadly a given skill applies. A guy who's good at hunting and fishing, even one great with knives, wouldn't necessarily be the guy you want artfully arranging your potatoes. It's clever the way you link it, but it's feels somewhat stretched. This is kind of the opposite of the 'too specific' problem I present above - that it's 'too general' - but I think that the two complaints are about different enough aspects that they still hold water. The thing with Skill Challenges is that it's one of the best and worst concepts in 4E, simultaneously. Best in theory, worst in practice (to my experience).See and this is basically the crux of my responses to that argument: If your backstory says you do one thing, and you try to do another "just because your skills, as written, are so generalized" then it is you who are being disingenuous to the spirit of the game. I don't feel you need a fishing skill to fish or a cooking skill to cook in a game about killing dragons and saving sacrificial virgins for money. Two people with a high Nature score don't have to know the same things. One can be a military tracker and the other can be an old herbalist granny. Their application of the skill is what defines the character.

I could go on, but I'm not going to convince you, and that's fine. I just wanted to show that there's valid points on both sides. That fishing skill can be important to immerse some people in reality, just as it's not important to you. I'm down with people that prefer 4E and 3.X - even those that are exclusive. I can swing both ways (on editions of DnD, only!). I just like 3.X better. Others don't. We coo'.I honestly feel if you want to fish, then you just can. If you want to be a pro, even better. If you want to apply your awesome fishing into an adventure then you shouldn't need skill ranks in fishing to make you feel better about your character. Your character can fish, now show me how you incorporate your fishing knowledge with your other skills to reach your goal.

But yeah, we're cool.

[Meister]

I honestly can't wrap my head around how being able to extrapolate the inner mechanical workings of anything you come across from your own knowledge of the game rules can possibly make D&D do anything but feel more like a game.

I do agree about Skill Challenges - I tried to incorporate them in many different ways but they always ended up feeling too limited for the players, so I abolished the concept entirely and everyone's happy. Good to know they can work as intended, though, and my gripes with it probably have a lot more to do with my group's playstyle than anything else. Really when it comes down to it we play both editions exactly the same way except in one of them the combat is fun.

[walkertexasdruid]

I have only been in one brief 4th ed. session, I will give it a chance. Though 3.5 is much clearer about the progression of each class, and you do not have to look in several places to figure out what the heck you are doing.

[tacticslion]

I have only been in one brief 4th ed. session, I will give it a chance. Though 3.5 is much clearer about the progression of each class, and you do not have to look in several places to figure out what the heck you are doing.

I don't know that I fully agree with this sentiment. I mean, I think I see what you're coming from, but with 4E every class has the same progression. The only difference is powers - the paragon paths are only an extension of the power growth and are limited to their own classes. The epic destiny is short, sweet, and easy to find. That said, I understand what you're saying - the growth chart is in one place (at the beginning) and the classes are everywhere else. The only thing you really need to know, though is half your level plus your relevant modifier. That's about it.

[tacticslion]

Will delete the double post either later tonight after we're done playing or tomorrow will probably* merge this with the above post at some point**, but just dropping by the forums to offer a quick pick up game (3.X). Any takers?

here's the program we're using to play together (http://gametable.sourceforge.net/Gametable/Home.html)

The game ended as was a blast! Thanks to everyone who made it! For those of you who didn't oh well! We also didn't use gametable... but it was fun nonetheless! Peace and God bless all of you!

*Maybe
**Or let a mod do it.

[Eltargrim]

Sorry tactics, no bite from me. Need a bit of advice on my campaign though.

I'm running a 3.5 Spelljammer campaign. Basically D&D in space. I've adapted the setting from 2.0, and now we're really starting to get into it. The one thing, though, is I need adventure ideas! I have my world largely built from the top-down, and I have nigh-infinite campaign settings to work with, but a lot of my campaign goals are mid-high level, and I don't quite know how to fill the gap.

Here's the skinny: the party is (forcibly) employed by House Cannith of Ebberon, as special-purpose mercenaries. The two main goals for House Cannith are to have a group who can do their dirty work, and to obtain spelljammer helms. The party has a wide variety of goals, and are basically just a random group who got together.

The first goal is a secret: to find the source of spelljammer helms, and obtain it. This is very late-game stuff, potentially even epic.

The second goal is to find advanced magic/tech for the eventual goal of making a suit of golem armour. Again, late game stuff.

I have demons and devils aplenty (late game), paladins (mid-game), and a super-secret late game plan, but again, no low-mid stuff! I'll take any ideas, and may turn this into a bit of a let's play; pitting your ingenuity against my players!

[Lady Fire Dove]

Count me in, Tactics. :)

[tacticslion]

Sorry tactics, no bite from me. Need a bit of advice on my campaign though. What?! You cad!

I'm running a 3.5 Spelljammer campaign. Basically D&D in space. I've adapted the setting from 2.0, and now we're really starting to get into it. The one thing, though, is I need adventure ideas! I have my world largely built from the top-down, and I have nigh-infinite campaign settings to work with, but a lot of my campaign goals are mid-high level, and I don't quite know how to fill the gap.

Here's the skinny: the party is (forcibly) employed by House Cannith of Ebberon, as special-purpose mercenaries. The two main goals for House Cannith are to have a group who can do their dirty work, and to obtain spelljammer helms. The party has a wide variety of goals, and are basically just a random group who got together.

The first goal is a secret: to find the source of spelljammer helms, and obtain it. This is very late-game stuff, potentially even epic.

The second goal is to find advanced magic/tech for the eventual goal of making a suit of golem armour. Again, late game stuff.

I have demons and devils aplenty (late game), paladins (mid-game), and a super-secret late game plan, but again, no low-mid stuff! I'll take any ideas, and may turn this into a bit of a let's play; pitting your ingenuity against my players!

Well, low-level stuff's pretty easy. You've got your basic things, like orcs, goblins (of various kinds, which, if they're on Eberron are actually quite capable of having advanced tech-stuff, especially the hobs), and the like, but you might want to look at things like changelings as enemies as well. A changeling magewright or even artificer could make an excellent opponent between a high INT, spells, and skills. Perhaps working with some hob-gobs of Daergun (spelling?) to find an old (or new!) schema that could really alter warforged production... or allow the control of one. Anyhoo, I can't give too much now - too much to plan! But there's a basic seed.

Edit:
Count me in, Tactics. :)
This is the BEST thing.

[Eltargrim]

The thing with spelljammer is not that we're on Eberron, it's that we're on everything. I have every campaign setting under the sun available, and honestly, I like bringing in sci-fi flavour.

I can plan isolated encounters, but I'm really trying to have more than just one-shots. Oh my god I can freely resize this text box in my browser. Hooooooooooly shit.

Good luck with your planning, I have some studying of my own to do right now. This summer is going to be big times for my campaign, for sure.

EDIT: SPACE PIRATE CHANGELING! NAMED FAN HYULICK! tactics, you're brilliant!

EDIT EDIT: Maybe when I'm not craaaaaaazy with exams I'll join one of your pick-ups; I'm always looking for games that I don't need to run.

[Mr.Bookworm]

I have only been in one brief 4th ed. session, I will give it a chance. Though 3.5 is much clearer about the progression of each class, and you do not have to look in several places to figure out what the heck you are doing.

I dunno, it's a lot simpler then 3.5 once you get the hang of it.

Especially once you get into Epic or Gestalt, or both like I'm doing right now where I have to use a spreadsheet to work out the math.

Eltargrim: SPACE PIRATES is good, like tactics suggested. You're doing Eberron apparently, so maybe you could do a gang hiding out in the Siberys rings. Or, one thing you could do at lower levels is explore what happens when you transport a Dark Sun defiler to another world. I imagine House Cannith would be interested in magic that literally sucks the life out of things.

[EVILNess]

I've been working on a campaign setting based in a water heavy world, basically a seafaring setting. I basically lost all of my maps and background information, but I have the "Big Picture" in my head still, so I am slowly putting it all back together.

I created two new races (A human shark hybrid and a rat goblinoid) who I feel are generally suited to living in the world, and I am also building a background information document for players that basically details generally know information about the major factions and important famous people. I Am not done, but I was wondering if you you guys would mind taking a look at a few of the documents and giving some feedback and maybe give me an idea of what information you feel would be fair to add that would be beneficial to players. Like I said, I have a big picture view in my head currently so I am kinda slipping on what details might be interesting or necessary.

Anyway, all of the files are in MS works format cause OpenOffice is being dumb for some reason.

Player Information (http://www.box.net/shared/f79t3250nc)
Shark men race (http://www.box.net/shared/bkb5r1z0fg)
rat goblinoids race (http://www.box.net/shared/0d5qqr7lc4)

[Tev]

but a lot of my campaign goals are mid-high level, and I don't quite know how to fill the gap.Two words: Space Kobolds.

A space-faring race of kobolds that worships a rare form of galactic dragon that they appease by raiding the universe for food sources in the form of prisoners and treasure. Maybe a spelljamming helm is in, or on its way to the hoard of said galactic dragon. It is up to the party to chase down these devious critters and either snatch the helm from them or follow them to the dragon's lair-world and steal it from the beast itself!

[tacticslion]

Mah Game!

I'd love to, but am too wiped out now. It sounds really cool, though!
Later, Lord willing!

Oh, also 7PM, Eastern Seaboard time, tomorrow, I'll have an hour and a half - and that's it - to play. Strict bed time for me, though (8:30 ending)!

EDIT: SPACE PIRATE CHANGELING! NAMED FAN HYULICK! tactics, you're brilliant! I know! I'm also charming, handsome, and delightfully humble!
...
... by which, of course, I mean, er, "Naw, man, thanks!"

EDIT EDIT: Maybe when I'm not craaaaaaazy with exams I'll join one of your pick-ups; I'm always looking for games that I don't need to run. Hah, we'd love to have you! But pass your exams first! That's the most important thing.

I dunno, it's a lot simpler then 3.5 once you get the hang of it.

Especially once you get into Epic or Gestalt, or both like I'm doing right now where I have to use a spreadsheet to work out the math. Too true. Or epic gestalt variant classes, utilizing extreme examples of epic magic (and variant "Psionics is Different" 3.5 epic psionics). I mean, wow. I ran a few of those numbers in my head today for fun. That stuffs INSANE. I love 3.X so very much.

Eltargrim: SPACE PIRATES is good, like tactics suggested. I love the fact that I'm getting so many accolades for going "hey, uh, changelings can be kind of annoying low level enemies! Also: goblins!". Man, if I knew being a genius was this easy, I'd have retired years ago.

You're doing Eberron apparently, so maybe you could do a gang hiding out in the Siberys rings. Or, one thing you could do at lower levels is explore what happens when you transport a Dark Sun defiler to another world. I imagine House Cannith would be interested in magic that literally sucks the life out of things. These are both really good ideas. The Siberys ring is nice and built into the setting (although Syrnia's influence seems to make space-flight in-material-plane a near-impossibility, based on the description of how that stuff is described as working) while transplanting unique concepts (such as the dark sun defiler) is a very neat way of planting terrible power in the midst of a low level campaign. On that note, spellfire (from Forgotten Realms) and especially the variant (given Eberron's history) silverfire would suddenly become one of the most important campaign elements in the world. If Cannith could tame and mechanize silverfire, it would cause a religious upheaval. That said, slaying or capturing a clearly-heretical wielder of the silverfire ability would be a big boon to the church. All sorts of nifty things right there. Spellfire is powerful, but not overwhelmingly so. Silverfire is a bit stronger in certain areas, but again somewhat limited in the end.

Another world ripe for importing is Ravenloft. While I'm not as familiar with it as some, it's already a multiplanar region. While it's technically a gothic/horror type thing, the gray mists are similar, in some regard, to the ones in Cyre, something that Cannith desperately wants to tame and/or cure - the former as a powerful weapon or energy source, the latter to clear their name and give them good "press" (making them even more in demand).

Anyhoo, these are just a few thoughts that I came up with based on Bookworm's input. Even with things like full-scale religious upheaval, and government-spanning plots, it's not necessarily epic or even terribly high level. All that stuff can be introduced at low level and be built up over time. Also, I'm sad I haven't looked at EVILness' stuff yet. Bad me! Bad!

[Lady Fire Dove]

Hi, all!
Four of us had a fun first session of a rather spontaneous online RPG last night.
(I will summarize the session below for anyone interested.)

We're hoping to pick it up again tonight for the second and final session in the micro-campaign.
If anyone new would like to join us, be on Windows Live Messenger at 7pm Eastern Standard time tonight, and send a private message to TacticsLion (on this forum) to say you want in.

We're only going to play for an hour-and-a-half, but it should be some fun role-playing and somewhat silly-crazy adventuring!
See ya! :)

---------------------------
If you want to join in for the crazy-fun finale, have any D&D 3.0 or 3.5 or Pathfinder or similar character of level 1-3 or so ready to play, and PM TacticsLion a few basics like name, class, alignment, and what they've been up to lately. Trust me, he won't have trouble bringing ANYBODY into this insane wild magic jumble of an adventure! :dance:

---------------------------
Characters:
TacticsLion (our GM/DM) is also playing a big, tough Barbarian named Cad, sometimes lacking in common sense.
Overcast is playing an arrogant red-robed Psion named Faustus ... although he hasn't actually revealed his name to any of our characters yet.
TDK is playing a misunderstood Ninja named Michael.
I (Lady Fire Dove) am playing a diplomatic white-robed Mediator named Aurora.

---------------------------
First Session Summary:

Faustus the Psion was on his way to a certain village, seeking a tasty cure for his recently-acquired lycanthropy, when suddenly, craziness broke out in some kind of a Wild Magic Zone. We're talking faerie fire, candy corn, avalanches of stuffed animals, trees turning into lawn gnomes, and, perhaps most significantly, the sudden appearance of Aurora the Mediator, Michael the Ninja, and Cad the Barbarian, who had each been going about his or her own business in an entirely different part of the multiverse.

After escaping the Wild Magic Zone together, the four strangers tried to figure out what was going on. Faustus decided to continue on to the village seeking the wizard Andolyn and his special were-rat lycanthropy cure. Faustus was in a hurry because he wanted to get the cure before the full moon that night. The others decided to join him, figuring that this wizard might also have the power to transport them back to their respective homes.
Cad revealed his Uthgardt Barbarian roots, Michael tried awkwardly to be friendly, Faustus looked out for his own interests, and Aurora generally convinced everyone to be friendly (or at least civil) to each other ... for the time being, anyway... (although she was disturbed to discover that Faustus had an evil aura).

After arriving in the village and debating the feasibility of the snake/fish creature body tacked up above the "Sea Serpent Inn" tavern door, the four adventurers approached the bartenders for information. The grubby locals, however, seemed entirely mistrusting of outsiders, and were generally unpleasant. While Michael sneaked around the back of the tavern to more forcefully (but non-lethally) interrogate one of the locals, Faustus and Aurora coaxed some information out of the Barkeep inside. The combined information gained led our adventurers to seek the wizard Andolyn at the maple-tree-surrounded home where he lived with his "no-good apprentice" on the Northern outskirts of the town. The merits of the spell prestidigitation were extolled. Also Cad nearly choked on his fishy-tasting ale. Then Cad nearly choked on the water Aurora not-so-helpfully created to help rinse the taste out of his mouth.

In the yard of the wizard's home, a weird, small green vapor creature was really stinking up the place in a major way. Perhaps the result of a failed magical experiment? When Aurora tried to address it in draconic, it flew at her face and attacked. As the nauseated Aurora attempted to swat the thing away, Faustus hid behind Michael, Michael punched Faustus and shot at the creature, Faustus attempted to psionically throw Michael at it, and Cad failed to even see it. Then, once it was destroyed, Faustus asked Cad to open the door to the wizard's home, as the rest of the group stood back a safe distance. With no immediate threat apparent, they entered the building.

Aurora called out a greeting to the wizard, but there was no response. Inside the wizard's sitting room, Aurora detected three magic items ... a book, a fire-place poker, and the window curtain drawstrings ... which all soon came to life and started (weakly) attacking the intruding adventurers. Aurora calmed and befriended the distressed magic book (using diplomacy and draconic), which was written by a bard named Deekin Scalesinger. Faustus and Cad destroyed the offending fire poker. Everyone avoided the curtain drawstrings (which were still attached to the curtain rod on the wall). Michael argued with Aurora that he wanted to destroy the book because it had attacked him. Aurora peeked into the empty dining room next door. Faustus summoned an astral construct to knock down the other door leading out of the sitting room (even though, for all he knew, it could be unlocked.)

When last we left off, Faustus' astral construct started pounding at a door (that had already had strange fissures in the wall around it) ...and the astral construct disappeared!

----------------------------------------------------------------
What happens next? Tune in tonight at 7pm Eastern Standard Time for the exciting finale. :D

[Lady Fire Dove]

Solid Snake, glad you want in on the chaos of tonight's RPG! :)
Send your e-mail address to TacticsLion or I in a private message so that we can add you to our Windows Live Messengers. Also, your private message inbox on this forum is full, so I couldn't reply to you that way.
If you could also send TacticsLion what name/class/alignment character you're playing, that will help.
See you back here in a couple hours! :dance:

P.S. Anyone else want in on the fun?

[Mr.Bookworm]

*raises hand*

Can I get in one this? Lion knows my MSN, and I'm whipping up a Warlock right now.

[Lady Fire Dove]

Sure thing, Bookworm!

Last call for anyone to join, we're going into Windows Live Messenger now...

:dance:

[tacticslion]

Sure thing, Bookworm!

Last call for anyone to join, we're going into Windows Live Messenger now...

:dance:

WHELP!
That wraps up another session. A great gaming experience of a crazy time, everyone! Thanks for the good time!

[Lady Fire Dove]

Great game, guys! :dance:

ok, so, we didn't actually FINISH, and we played way longer than planned....

... but that was insane fun! :D

Bookworm and Sifright joined Overcast, TDK, TacticsLion and I for another crazy session...

Brief summary:
We continued exploring the wizard's house, wild magic erupted again, more peeps appeared, some dropped unconscious, one turned into a smurf-fairy, we fought an imp, rescued a cook, faced off against -get this- a CALZONE GOLEM, slew an evil cursed marinara demon thing, and are attempting to alchemically brew up a lycanthropy cure before Faustus turns into a were-rat at sunset.

Huzzah!

More to come.... maybe next weekend.... will let you know....

G'night! :dance:

[Ryong]

So, I was trying out some stuff to make a 4e Fighter for one campaign I may be playing and one thing annoyed me.

Why the hell can't I use a two-handed weapon with one hand at high levels? Shit, you're strong as fuck and you may have a lot of dexterity too. I may try and make some house rule to have a talent that lets you do it, but like, need 20 strength and 20 dexterity or more.

[Lady Fire Dove]

Ryong,
That sounds like something that would be a good epic feat to me!
(...ability to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand in 4E...)
Oooh, now I want to see someone dual-wielding Great Axes! :dance:

[TDK]

Well I haven't played 4e, but there's a feat in 3.5 called Monkey Grip (in complete warrior) that works as follows:

The amount of effort required to wield a weapon goes down by one. A two-handed weapon becomes one-handed, one handed becomes light, etc. But all attacks get a -2 with weapons wielded in this fashion.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Though you should note that Monkey Grip is absolutely terrible. One of the worst feats in D&D.

I don't know how good it would be in 4E, though, because relatively minor stat boosts can count for a lot more there.

[tacticslion]

Hey, if you guys're out there, and you catch us, we might finish the quick adventure (Wild Magic). If we're only missing one person, we'll probably continue anyway, 'cause... well, I'll update the only person. And technically we've never played with everyone simultaneously anyway!

IF we can't do it tonight, would Friday or Saturday evening this week be better for any of y'all?

[Aldurin]

All the DnD I really know is from Order of the Stick and by playing DDO (Dumbasses and Dumbshits Online as it is affectionately referred to), but you guys are clearly into some awesome stuff. Any good links for the best crash-course for this? And is any of this done online or is it the gather-in-a-basement-with-paper-and-dice method?

[Lady Fire Dove]

Hi, Aldurin. We're doing the Wild Magic mini-campaign completely online over Windows Live Messenger. If you have a WLM (or download it free online), just send a private message on this forum to TacticsLion that includes your e-mail so he can add you to his WLM and invite you into the chat window.
We're just about to wrap up this crazy little mini-campaign now, but if you want to "watch" our chat window, that may be the best way to learn. :)
We play rules-lite, fun-heavy. Hope to see you there! :dance:

[EVILNess]

Ever since I first started playing table-tops I have spent hundreds of hours brainstorming things for adventures that would never be run. It's something I just do for fun.

In fact, I still do this. I have binders full of NPCs, weapons, armor, enchantments, encounters, traps, Traps, and TRAPS (Seriously, I have traps. I can kill any PC with a day's preparation. Epic or not.). I have 3 full playable settings that have never had a player even set in them around here somewhere, and roughly half a dozen half finished ones, ranging from low-fantasy to high-fantasy to steam-punk to cyber-punk. The main projects I am building right now are one where it's PCs on the high seas, and one other I will elaborate on in a minute...

When my mind wanders it tends to think about tabletop RPGs.

Let's view the other main thing my mind has been pondering as an example...

About 6 months ago I got the desire to adapt Final Fantasy Tactics to a d20 type system. So I did. Some of the more advanced classes (Such as summoner) are no where near being done, but the game is almost playable. The first few tiers of classes are almost completely done. I could probably get some people together right now and fake what I don't have finished.

God, I am such a nerd.

(I've offered before, but if you need "something," whether it be an interesting trap, a few encounters, or a plan to overthrow the whole game world. I like thinking about all that, so ask me.)

EDIT:Someone wanted to see the FFT thing, yeah sure here (http://www.box.net/shared/r2q8707big) is one of the main documents.

[Aldurin]

I'll probably watch campaigns for a while until the culture shock from DDO to proper DnD wears off. So I'll check it out.

God, I am such a nerd.

Embrace it, dude.

[Meister]

So, I was trying out some stuff to make a 4e Fighter for one campaign I may be playing and one thing annoyed me.

Why the hell can't I use a two-handed weapon with one hand at high levels? Shit, you're strong as fuck and you may have a lot of dexterity too. I may try and make some house rule to have a talent that lets you do it, but like, need 20 strength and 20 dexterity or more.
I guess because two-handed weapons tend to be Brutal and High Crit weapons and that's considered a fair exchange for the lack of a shield or second weapon. I can also see issues with making some powers' requirement of having to use a two-handed weapon essentially useless.

What are you going for with this idea?

[russianreversal]

I guess because two-handed weapons tend to be Brutal and High Crit weapons and that's considered a fair exchange for the lack of a shield or second weapon. I can also see issues with making some powers' requirement of having to use a two-handed weapon essentially useless. Also since they released double weapon rules with dark sun it would somewhat wreck that whole system.

The primary reason that you can't wield two-handed weapons in one hand is because shields can provide a number of magic bonuses in addition to the +2 to AC and Reflex (because let's be real, light shields? pffff). I know that this isn't that much consolation to someone who both wants a shield and a brutal 2 high-crit axe, but that's why (non-shield) arms slot items exist. That said, it wouldn't be even close to the most game breaking thing you could do to create an epic (yeah, epic, c'mon) tier feat that allows you to do it (with 17 str, dex prereqs, of course).

Also ha ha monkey grip is so terrible.

[Ryong]

It's mostly me getting annoyed that, say, a Fighter can't use two mauls even though they weigh 5 kg each and, according to the drawing in PH1, just a big bigger than a battleaxe, which is one-handed.

I was thinking something like:

Epic Grip - You can use a two-handed, non-reach melee weapon in one hand and you can treat any one-handed, non-reach melee weapon as if it had the off-hand property.

It wouldn't be for characters who use two-handed weapons normally, it'd be for the two-weapon fighter, barbarian and maybe ranger.

[russianreversal]

I don't see any reason to mess with the off hand weapons. I mean, do you really need that much brutal in your twin strikes?

[Meister]

If you do, I recommend kukris. :knowledge:

I dunno, my approach to 4E houserules and homebrews is pretty much "be really careful cause this is bound to have unintended rippling sideeffects I couldn't possibly anticipate." I especially wouldn't base any ideas for houserules on whether something "makes sense" in a real-world context because modelling an environment close to actual laws of physics, athleticism etc. is just not what the system was designed around, and introducing it seems like a good way to get these side effects started. Like if I wanted to play a character who swings a large hammer in each hand I'd probably go for a warhammer and a throwing hammer and reflavour.

[Overcast]

I've always wished there was some kind of progression improvements for using one handed weapons with no shield, mostly for fluff reasons. I mean one hand and shield pretty much speaks for itself, and if you are going two hands there are pretty good weapons to make that +1/2 str damage bonus shine. But the only thing I know of that requires you to use no shield and a one handed weapon is Duelist, and Duelist sucks out loud. Might make my attempt at something like that.

[tacticslion]

But the only thing I know of that requires you to use no shield and a one handed weapon is Due- THERE WAS NO SUCH CLASS EVER. EVER.

I am awesome; witness my awesomeness by downloading these awesome things, then reading and commenting on it. ... I can't. My computer is too oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll d. :(

You do still seem pretty awesome, though.

I'll probably watch campaigns for a while until the culture shock from DDO to proper DnD wears off. So I'll check it out.

An important part of that process is sending me a PM with your WLM, or whatever service you use! Otherwise we can't contact you! The process is simple: you click on my name, select "send private message", and viola! You send a private message!

I kid, but that was kinda what Lady Fire Dove was telling you to do... :P ;)

Also...
Fun, true story. When I first saw the picture of Monkey Grip, it was pretty awesome. "Man, that looks like a cool feat." I said. See, in it, there was this guy who was using a Huge-sized axe to totally destroy a larger-than-Large-sized Frost Giant's shield! Man, that looked cool! Then I read the feat. Then I looked at the picture. Feat. Picture. Feat. Picture. "Wat." It was false advertisement at it's finest. Although, to be fair, 3.X WotC was getting rather sloppy with their pictures as time went by, especially their feats. I mean, in the Player's Handbook 2, in the image representing the Acrobatic Strike feat, there's clearly a picture of Lidda (the Halfling that's in every single book they published that could possibly support her existence, starting with the 3.0 and 3.5 Player's Handbooks) fighting what is very clearly an orc. Caption: "An elf uses Acrobatic Strike to get the drop on a giant". Seriously. WAY TO NOT KNOW YOUR OWN NAMED ICONIC CHARACTERS, OR OBVIOUS CREATURE TYPES WHO'VE BEEN AROUND FOR AT LEAST TEN YEARS, WIZARDS OF THE COAST.

[Overcast]

Minor questions, if I find myself in a high LA creature do I not get a class until I've gained enough levels to pay off that LA? Also, how do I reduce LA? Was making a character I once fiddled with in a non dice situation, a Troll, so +5 LA and I'd like to reduce it with fluffy penalties.

[russianreversal]

WAY TO NOT KNOW YOUR OWN NAMED ICONIC CHARACTERS, OR OBVIOUS CREATURE TYPES WHO'VE BEEN AROUND FOR AT LEAST TEN YEARS, WIZARDS OF THE COAST. Hey, you never know.

Sun could have been in their eyes when they wrote the caption.

Maybe the boss's wife or something wrote it and no one wanted to correct her.

Could have been... Yeah I don't know, that's just bad.

[tacticslion]

Minor questions, if I find myself in a high LA creature do I not get a class until I've gained enough levels to pay off that LA? Also, how do I reduce LA? Was making a character I once fiddled with in a non dice situation, a Troll, so +5 LA and I'd like to reduce it with fluffy penalties.

Whenever dealing with LA, you pretend to be a few levels higher than you actually are for XP purposes. For example, a 1st level person with +1 LA would pretend to be second level, and would only level up on achieving 3rd level XP; in other words, they'd have to gain the amount of XP most people would have to acquire to be 3rd level, but they'd only be 2nd.

In the book Unearthed Arcana - filled with extra or variant (non-standard) rules, one option presented (which I always play with in my games) is the ability to reduce your LA. It's not in normal games, but most GMs'd probably okay it. Effectively, every time you get to an increment of three in your levels (3rd level, 6th level, 9th level, etc) you can "pay off" some of your debt. So, say you're a 3rd level fighter-troll (+5 LA, so treated as an 8th level character with 28,000 XP minimum - I'm ignoring racial hit dice, 'cause I forgot what they have, but let's just say he lost it somehow for this example), about to hit fourth level (9th level - you'd need 36,000 XP), when you gain that magical XP that increases you by one level. Instead of gaining your fourth level of fighter, you actually reduce your LA by 1... and reduce your XP to the bare minimum you can have to still be 3rd level. With your LA reduced from +5 to +4, you'd go from effectively 8th level to effectively 7th level, and, instead of having that shiny 36,000 XP, you'd have 21,000 XP. Doing a math comparison, however, lets you know really, really quickly that this pays off, despite seeming like a bad deal, at first, because in the end, it takes less XP to do all that than it does just slog through with the level adjustments.

On a similar note, racial hit dice are pretty much the worst things ever. You need to include them against XP calculations, but you gain comparatively little benefit from them. That's one reason I set out to lose the lousy stuff first thing I can, when possible. Enervation is actually a helpful spell to fail against in that case. The only exception to that general rule is dragon and outsider hit dice, as they both provide pretty good everything.

Hey, you never know.

Sun could have been in their eyes when they wrote the caption.

Maybe the boss's wife or something wrote it and no one wanted to correct her.

Could have been... Yeah I don't know, that's just bad.

Dude, tell me about it! I've tried to come up with a scenario in which something that obviously wrong could have gone without anyone noticing. I mean, unlike the Sandstorm book, Lidda was even wearing her default outfit - the one that appears in every* player's handbook they've ever published. I just... I don't know. About the best thing I could figure was the images AND captions were done by apprentices or interns or something, and never got edited. Which is just tremendously sloppy.

*Every non-campaign-specific player's handbook, as the "iconic characters" were, I think, supposed to be Greyhawk Campaign Setting (the presumed default setting, in honor of Gygax).

[TDK]

Minor questions, if I find myself in a high LA creature do I not get a class until I've gained enough levels to pay off that LA? Also, how do I reduce LA? Was making a character I once fiddled with in a non dice situation, a Troll, so +5 LA and I'd like to reduce it with fluffy penalties.

You have to have character levels. If you made a character with +5 LA, their effective level would be six, five being "monster levels" and one being whatever class you take. Hence, you could only play such a character unless you were starting at level six.

In before what tactics said, which is also true.

[EVILNess]

I want you guys to know that you have put me in a tabletop mood. I have an itch, and i can't fucking scratch it.

I always get two days off a week, but they are never the same set of days off. Makes it really fucking hard to play a tabletop game.

I hate you all.

[tacticslion]

I want you guys to know that you have put me in a tabletop mood. I have an itch, and i can't fucking scratch it.

I always get two days off a week, but they are never the same set of days off. Makes it really fucking hard to play a tabletop game.

I hate you all.

But EVILNess, we love you!

This is an f.y.i. to let you guys know that I probably won't be running a pick-up game within the next several days until this Thursday (4/21), as I've got company coming until then. I'm not promising anything will happen on Thursday, just mostly excluding anything until that point as being unlikely. Aldurin, I still haven't heard anything from you, so I can't include you - please let me know via PM if you still want to do stuff. ALSO, my inbox is nearly full, but I have room for a couple more PMs. I'll try and clean something out eventually, but just letting you guys know for right now, that's where we're at.

E: (re: PM) sorry, TDK, I've just kind of run out of time, for now. Hopefully later, though.
E2: D'aw, we love you too, DarkDrgon!

[DarkDrgon]

I want you guys to know that you have put me in a tabletop mood. I have an itch, and i can't fucking scratch it.

I always get two days off a week, but they are never the same set of days off. Makes it really fucking hard to play a tabletop game.

I hate you all.

this. so hard. except i always get wednesdays off... which is my 40K day

[Ryong]

The content below is DnD 4e!
So, I'm going to play a half-orc ranger in an "evil PCs only" campaign. He's 6th level, uses a Lotulis and deals 1d10+1d8+2d6+6 if he hits both attacks on a Twin Strike. His background is that he had a bear animal companion which was killed by an adventuring party, he faked that he was being attacked by said bear - because he saw that if he fought the party he wouldn't win - and then joined said party later. He progressed from 1st to 5th level, stealthily causing "accidents" and killing said party. Then he got to 6th level and that's where we'll start.

[TDK]

I was reminded of something awesome that happened in a game I was DMing.

Party of two is running around, trying to gain power in a particular city. They kill a few people, do jobs for a mob boss, steal some shit, etc. The one is a rather clever rogue, while the other is a warforged artificer and kind of a moron, so he's rather blatant with things he does. He is very strong though. The clever and powerful city guard captain manages to find out who committed these crimes and tracks down the warforged while he and the rogue are separated.

So the captain and his troop of guards attack him. He dodges and punches a few of the guards before jumping back the necessary distance and hitting them all with a fireball and fleeing. Most of the guards are killed, but the captain comes charging out of the flames, sword raised. The warforged runs, eventually takes a few blows, almost dead although he deals quite a bit of damage to the captain as well. He finally manages to lose the captain and heal himself. The captain hunts around for him before finally leaving. He emerges from his hiding place a few minutes later like "Phew, that was close".

He comes back out to the street, and meanwhile the captain is up on the city wall wearing his Goggles of the Eagle (essentially binoculars) and turned around one of the anti-siege ballistae on the wall. He spots the warforged (he's eight feet tall and covered in adamantine spikes :P).

Walking along the street, unawares, the warforged hears a sharp whistling sound and the a giant metal bolt crashes into the ground next to him, missing by a hair. He looks back to where it came from and just starts sprinting away. "RELOAD!"

He runs through alleys and over rooftops, ballista bolts crashing around him, and finally one hits him dead-on, ripping through his adamantine plating and pins him to the wall. Another misses his head by an inch, and the ballista is out of bolts. The captain yells in anger and jumps down onto the rooftops, drawing his sword and sprinting across the rooftops toward him.

The warforged makes frantic strength checks to pull out the bolt, brought down close to zero by the one shot. The captain closes in on him and makes the final leap across the last gap to his rooftop...And crashes to the ground, two arrows protruding from his back (sneak attack, crit, extra fire damage, manyshot, etc. It was an amazing shot.) The rogue climbs up onto the rooftop where the amazed warforged is still pinned to the wall.

"'Sup."

[Overcast]

I imagine that ending like most of the Rush Hour movies. Where despite saving his ass the Warforged still smacks him and says, "Where the fuck were you!?"

[Ryong]

So, what happens you let free two PCs, both evil, one an orc and the other a half-orc in a random town?

You kill a bunch of rich people, start a cult, take the governor hostage and get rid of the city's security system.

In two days and a half.

[russianreversal]

I was playing in a game where upon reaching paragon tier the characters gained access to a time travelling device (and many wacky misadventures were had). I joined in at 12 as one of the Pirate Lord Deinos' (13 Tiefling Warlock basically EVERY pact at some point or another) crew members, basically something of a reckless spartan with a doom prophesy origin storied onto him. Took 3 weeks, a demon possession and a little time shenanigans to turn the chaotic good/neutral party evil.

We ended up actually blowing up most a country by interfering with the past, which really pissed off the DM since he had to go back and redo history all over again.

Now we're playing a corollary game where we're a good party who has to fix everything the Pirate Lord and his band of miscreants have done. The DM REALLY hates the evil party.

[Aldurin]

DnD needs to add sentient ponies to the available races. It NEEDS to happen.

[tacticslion]

DnD needs to add sentient ponies to the available races. It NEEDS to happen.

Actually, they exist. They're called Asperi! And in the Monster Manual II (3.0 Edition).

Alternatively you could play an awakened horse. Or a centaur. But really, the Asperi are magical sentient horses. And there are unicorns!

[tacticslion]

Ahem, pardon the bump, but instead of creating a new thread dedicated to me, I figured I hijack the use this slightly old one for said purpose (figuring it'd be the least annoying - mods feel free to tell me if I'm wrong).

So! I've been working on a Heavily-Modified d20-based Campaign Setting recently, and, since I'm intellectually bankrupt, I've been stealing from pre-published stuff like mad for inspiration, and figure "Why stop there? Why not go all the way and steal from other people directly? By asking, even!" So here we are.

Campaign Setting currently lacks a name, but here is the gist (note - most characters wouldn't know this much about their own world, so just fyi):

* Normal Level Cap is sixth for most "mortal" races (but see below)

* There are three major categories of mortal sentients: fey (elf [various], gnome [various], and halfling [various]), dragon (kobolds [normal and a specially modified] and folklings {basically small lizardfolk}, and hume (dwarves [various] and humans [various w/out stat-changes]) as the player races; with orcs (various), goblins (all three types), and lesser giants (ogres, trolls, and "low" {non-evil, non-stupid hill giant-like people}) being nodded toward as semi-available races in their own fourth overly-broad (on purpose) "category" (even though each is, in reality, a fundamentally different creature from the other).

* There are five "power sources" - five coterminous planes that provide power to the world at large, though most require extreme focus to follow up on - astral (psionic), ethereal (divine/limited arcane), far (pact), fey (spontaneous arcane/nature), and shadow (shadow, straightforwardly enough). Each can interact with the other in various ways, and, depending on who/what you deal with throughout your mortal life, when you die, you reflect what power you tapped into or associated with the most. The material plane is not without its own resources and power, but the majority of accessible power comes from these places

* Primarily the world deals in wizardry/artifice or divine mysticism (if hume) or naturalistic non-sorcerous spontaneous magic or druidism/spiritism (if fey) or sorcery if draconic. Humes' societies run on wizardry's artifice - without the wizards and artificers, it wouldn't be able to continue going. Fey magic brings creatures closer (usually) with nature - either as a whole, or a specific aspect or locale that they begin to favor. This can lead to clashes in culture when fey attempt to bond with nature and humes attempt to remake it to suit their own ideals, though open warfare is rare (It's basically because of visual-based fantastic-racism - they look similar enough to each other to not be considered 'monsters' when others look so dissimilar and can be hated. Speaking of...). And finally, dragons find a cool welcome wherever they go, since their wild-magic-inducing sorcery can play havoc with others. Giants, goblins, and orcs are usually (incorrectly?) considered incurably evil.

* Otherwise, presume hume tech/society level is more low-level (but extremely prominently) magically augmented High Roman than Medieval: higher tech; 'cleaner' society; but not industrial or even having gunpowder, aside from low-level mages - cities are still often, though increasingly infrequently, walled; and power relies heavily on natural elements (mostly human supplemented by heavy use of water and coal, some wood, and rarely wind unless at sea, if I remember correctly) while Fey tech/society is more that of primeval greats (ancient building skills of the old Picts, Aztecs, Mayans, and Sumerians with a focus on natural elements instead of quarrying)

* Anything mystical other than wizardry-artifice, fey-mysticism, and draconic wild-sorcery are exceedingly rare, and find little to no acceptance in society, except for the very rare divinely blessed mystic character in hume society, though some are persecuted more, some less, and some just completely misunderstood.

* Getting past the level six cap is a matter of undertaking great trials and/or expense, but is different for different major categories. Fey generally must find away to ascend to different forms of guardian nature spirits - satyrs, fauns, dryads, nymphs, firres (some eladrins are a kind of fey in this world, some don't exist), and the like. Humes generally must find a way to achieve a semi-immortality; certain kinds of undeath are available (mostly vamparism or mummies) as are a few other, extremely rare and difficultly-achieved methods. Dragons must consume rare and valuable metals, gems, rare but colorful alchemical substances (dependent on the kind of dragon) or (in certain circumstances) rare other substances - enough raw material over the course of an extended period to increase from a small size to a medium one (the rough value is equal to the number of XP needed to attain 6th level, or 15,000 gold). In all cases, the level cap is raised to twelve. More stuff is done at that point to increase it further, but that's too much for this post.

* Various half-breeds between the mortal races exist in-canon, though they are mostly quite rare, and I don't have the stats for all of them. Presume, however, that half-elves [various], half-orcs [various], and other normal half-breed creatures amongst the lists above (halflings are actually one such, though they appear above - elves and gnomes breed to make halflings).

* There are hundreds of cultures (too many to list here) and languages, and cultural concepts - 'racial' languages don't really exist, save as a strange concept-idea that hasn't been implemented, or for exceedingly rare or esoteric elements. Nonetheless, there is a semi-universal language to many civilized areas. There is also a single super-culture of former conquerors that radiates out from a centralized point. These conquerors underwent a radical transformation nine centuries ago, as their ruler - for ages supposed to be a living 'god' - seems to have been destroyed in his attempt to ascend in truth. With his death, the city around him died as well - the entire city passed away within what seems to be an instant. In the capital were his heirs were found dead as was most of the (nearly powerless now, anyway) Senate and ten of the twelve greatest generals of the land. With only half a dozen senators (out of two hundred), and two great generals left - all of which lived and were stationed far from the capital due to political disfavor -, and no royal heirs, the senators and generals colluded with the remaining military and the various local leaders and formally dissolved the government into self-controlled (but mostly allied) smaller states. It was the most peaceful dissolution a country has ever experienced, and, though peace has not been constant, their influence has been felt strongly throughout the world, and so much of civilization has been fairly well oriented toward one another.

* World-map: I'll be straight forward: I don't have one, yet, though I have some ideas. This is one area I'd like some suggestions, even though that's the hardest to do.

* Organizations: there are a lot. I mean, a very large number. Many have been cribbed (almost 'only-name-change-if-that' kind of cribbing) from pre-published sources. Effectively, if it's printed, presume some form of it exists, though some geographical elements and power-bases (obviously) are changed. Also, there are many countries. Large numbers of benefits for joining these organizations exist, most subtle, but potent.

* Classes: classes are somewhat (or heavily) restricted, as indicated above, by race.
> ALL RACES: barbarian [variants], fighter [variants], rogue [variants], scout [variants], medium {Tome of Magic "binder"}, true speaker {Tome of Magic "true namer"}, enigma {Tome of Magic "shadow caster"}
> MULTIPLE RACES [limited by variants to specific races]: Druid, Enlightened (monk), Ninja, Psychic (Erudite, Psion, or Wilder), Ranger, Summoner, War Mage, Warlock, Witch
> HUME: chosen {cleric/favored soul}, paladin, artificer/wizard [gnomes can take this, however they slowly cease to be gnomes], hexblade [elves can take this, however they slowly cease to be elves or slowly become duskblades instead]
> FEY: bard, beguiler, duskblade, spellthief {note: spell-scale (dragon) can access these too, however spell-scale is a template applied to a creature, rather than a natural born, so it is discounted for these purposes}
> DRAGON: dragon shaman, dragonfire adept, sorcerer {note: spell-scales, the template, might allow these to propagate to another race, however those who practice these arts are slowly transformed anyway into a draconic being, become a spell-scale themselves, destroy themselves and everyone around them, or die with no heirs, effectively keeping this firmly within the dragon-only rule}

* Progression: as previously stated, the level cap is sixth, however this is more accurately stated as a six HD cap, as characters can become more powerful than a typical sixth level character by slow gestalting or ECL; the gestalt process requires first achieving sixth level, then acquiring the average XP required for the level of class you are about to take with 15,000 XP (the amount required to be at sixth level). This XP does not actually go into your total pool while the level cap is in effect - it is stored separately and 'turned in', effectively payed, at each level gain to get the benefits of a gestalt. This can be done with multiple classes, although: 1) you cannot gestalt a second class higher than your base class, 2) you must first finish any prestige classes you have, 3) each future iteration of gestalt increases the XP price (XP price given above two for your third class, times three for your forth class, etc), and 4) you cannot gestalt classes that are prohibited to you by race.

* There are many deities. They are all hume and form quite a number of different pantheons across the diverse landscape. Fey have no deities, just super-distant 'lords' (gender-neutral term). Dragons don't have deities either, just dragon-concepts (the ten 'true' dragons, and five gem types, as well as the four "divine" orders (Bahamut/Paladine, Tiamat/Serkhis, Sardior/Blithin, Io/Ao) - deities that are conceptual, not practical - they are unseen, unknown (outside of dragons born and raised) and impersonal, granting no benefits, but having ideologically opposing views.

* Theme: thinking of running my first campaign with over-all good heroes who live on the edge of or even outside of "acceptable" society (both fey and hume). Specifically, a medium (or a chosen - not both), and enigma, a true speaker, a witch, and a psychic. Heavily exploring themes of divinity, heroism, and "nature" v. "civilization".

It's important to note, that this is in the eeeeeeeaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrly planning stages, and I might not run this for quite some time, but I'm curious for input. I have preferred racial locales (including for humans), but I don't really have time to put them up now, and am interested in feedback from others here before doing so anyway. So: tell me what you think! Do you have any suggestions or ideas for how to improve? Any that you think are really cool? Any you hate? Any comments NOT related to my super-awesome new campaign setting idea?