And Now it's A Habit: OC on Honest Hearts

[Overcast]

Another DLC for New Vegas, and it has a very different kind of feel to it compared to Dead Money. When I spoke of Dead Money I remember pointing out how they stripped you of all you owned, the extremely restrictive nature of nearly all resources while simultaneously forcing your things to wear down faster, the power of most enemies that you will face, how certain things were unkillable and required some puzzle solving skills it was a singular cell of hell with a story and moral that gripped me nice and tight. Truly engaging.

This one isn't quite that. No full stripping of your gear, it will wear down a little faster but not like Dead Money, the enemies are fairly straight forward. This one is a bit more straightforward. What has been added are a nice wealth of crafting tools, the story is one of redemption, innocence, and whether or not we accept that the world is filled with bad people and the only way to get by is to deal with the problem at the source or if we can find our own paradise in the world. With an undercurrent of Religious beliefs what really needs to be understood is this expansion is about only two people, the New Canaanites(a survivalist group that are the decedents of the Mormons in Utah) Joshua Graham and Daniel who respectively seem to have a concentration between the Old and New testament. Their opinions tint every single thing you do short of a few side quests, and even the companions that you get are only really meant to further extend how you see the two of them. As such your companions are not quite so exciting as they were in Dead Money.

The further expansion on the story of Joshua Graham was enjoyable. Sure he wasn't the bitter evil bastard who got you in a whole mess of fun trouble in Van Buren, but his Old Testament style justice and genuine badassery when you get him as a companion just grew on me. Also he has one of the coolest looking armors in the game if you are a light armor lover like myself.

Another good point was the Survivalist, a character you only get to know by exploring the various caves around Zion. It has that strange feeling of immersion that really sucked me in. Explore around, he is worth learning all about.

Altogether I didn't feel as impressed with this one as Dead Money, but for $10 I feel it was worth it. Still I hope to get some more Survivalist type immersion in Old World Blues. But most of all they better bring all the stops when we finally get to Lonesome Road, because after all the shit I've been hearing about Ulysses I'm going to expect him to be able to match me on level of badass.

[Krylo]

I didn't really think Dead Money was all that hellish, though I play on Hardcore/Normal as opposed to like, Hardcore/Fuck you or whatever the higher difficulties are called. This might also be because I was rolling melee with a bumper sword and 10 strength. It was pretty rare I had to stop and hack apart the ghost people after smacking them (they tended to come apart whenever I touched them). ...And monocyte breeders offset a lot of the issues with the cloud.

Mostly I just found it kind of annoying. It was just restricted enough to make me feel like I couldn't go around exploring because I'd have to hack up thirty more ghost people and dodge through these clouds, and waste this many more stims and blaargh, but not so much that it really made me feel trapped. I guess the part where I had to roll alone to the top of the tower, with the heavy clouds and speakers and radios everywhere along with ghost people got a bit hectic because I couldn't stop to fight, but other than that, eh.

I don't know which I liked better though. Dead Money let me leave with some nice outfits (Vera's and Dean's) to wear around the Strip, and I honestly enjoyed all my companions. Especially Catherine. Though I can't say enough good things about the mutant.

That said, Honest Hearts had a much more engrossing and immersive 'world' for me to be in, and the ability to travel back there after I was done is nice too, along with Joshua actually acting as a shop with a shit ton of caps so I didn't have the same feeling of 'argh I have so much shit but I don't want to get rid of anything'. In Honest Hearts I can sell Joshua my shit, get caps, and then later come back if I want/need and buy it back from him.

Which is actually an issue I had with FO3's DLC, too. I hate the 'you're here can't come back, have no way to store or sell anything, BUT HERE IS A BUNCH OF LOOT! What? You DIDN'T take strong back and 10 strength? Lawl, hope you like walking, because fuck if you'll be able to run for half of this.'

It's kind of an annoying design point that has been threaded through all of Beth's Fallout DLC with the exception of Honest Hearts.

That aside, I was also a fan of the survivalist. Following his stories through the caves and finally on the mesa with his rifle is pretty fantastic, and a wonderful explanation for the Sorrow's faith. I also enjoyed him being equated to the judeochristian god by the Sorrows, and how the story telling dealt with the Sorrow's being indoctrinated by Daniel--that is to say in a very real way that merged the two religions instead of wiping the original out.

Speaking of: I also liked that I could be a staunch atheist, and the replies that entailed. "Uh, I don't know if you've figured this out yet, but I don't believe the same things as you?"

Also: Tribals with Shishkebabs = me getting Shishkebabs = best DLC. Also: Anti-Materiel Rifles, but pfffft. Not nearly as awesome as flaming swords.

Edit: Oh, and non-faction marked ranger armor and mask in one of the survivalist's caves. Awesome. You know who looks badass as fuck in a ranger duster? Everyone. Even Arcade.

[Overcast]

Yeah I was Hardcore/DEAR GOD WHY and with a guns character. With bad perception, so even when I found my first machine gun I was still doomed. And come to think of it I still haven't gotten any implants yet. The post-bell tower run for your life moment was a bad dream for me. I had up to that point been relying on my stealth and the fact that bear trap fists were pretty big damage, but the alarms seemed to have made them all looking for me. Combined with the radios, the clouds, the endless traps, and everything and I was wrecked.

But being trapped kinda forced the story in that matter. I will agree that Honest Hearts let you get more immersed in the landscape since it wasn't always trying to kill you.

I've never been so bothered by the UNABLE TO SELL thing though. I think that in Dead Money there just wasn't too much for me to hold onto, there was one new gun that I didn't want to hold onto, and one pretty excellent light armor. And one sample of gold, because I had to take one. And maybe someone's robe. Okay so memorabilia, but even in Honest Hearts if I had that problem I'd still have to drag my ass since selling them wasn't what I wanted, just wanted something to stare at. And I am just made of caps, so I just drop what I don't think is interesting.

I really dug the new .45 Auto. I'm a stealth gunner so it was a sweet new holdout once I got a silencer on it.

[Marc v4.0]

Hell Yes. M1A1 Thompson submachine gun.


I loved the loot chest at the end, "Here, have all the cool gear that we know you wanted to kill everyone for"

I am debating if I should start working on my NV LP now or wait for the rest of the DLC, but I am also debating on how to effectivly mesh DLC into the LP. Hurm


edit: Oh, only one real complaint, The grunt perk doesn't work for This Machine or the Automatic Rifle. I cannot fathom how they could exclude the M1 Gerand and the Browning AR from it. Saddest Day.

[Krylo]

I've never been so bothered by the UNABLE TO SELL thing though. I think that in Dead Money there just wasn't too much for me to hold onto, there was one new gun that I didn't want to hold onto, and one pretty excellent light armor. And one sample of gold, because I had to take one. And maybe someone's robe. Okay so memorabilia, but even in Honest Hearts if I had that problem I'd still have to drag my ass since selling them wasn't what I wanted, just wanted something to stare at. And I am just made of caps, so I just drop what I don't think is interesting.

Oh yeah, I had like 60,000 caps too, but it just goes completely against my grain to throw shit away when it's worth money. Plus in Honest Hearts I wanted one of each tribal outfit, the survivalist's rifle, a 45 pistol, a 45 submachine gun (aka the thompson), an anti-materiel rifle, a shishkebab, a riot shotgun (I wasn't sure if I had one at home), etc. etc. Plus the 70ish pounds of stuff I went in with. I'm a collector.

Which left little weight for my basic scavenging instinct. So being able to sell extra stuff was nice, and extra nice on top of it was being able to go back after the fact.

In Dead Money, on the other hand, I had to keep on looking over my crap and do math in my head on whether this was worth keeping over that on weight to caps ratios, and trying to decide whether to toss the armor I found and go in lighter clothing, or whether I should keep it and toss out a couple of cosmic knives even though I might want to use them in recipes, etc. Plus I HATE throwing out ammo, but being a melee character I never really used/needed all the ammo I got.

My companions outside of the expansion did though.

[Overcast]

I would have liked for it to beef up my sniper rifle as well.

But as for the LP at this point I would wait until the other two come out later this summer. Just about everything has something that can inspire you to search, you can get to know Veronica and try to find her mentor, or just want a new place to break after you go for broke in New Vegas. The Burned Man could hook you toward trying to get to New Canaan after you here Caesar's little thing about his uprising or perhaps just the rumors themselves when you hear that Zion might contain the man himself. The Big Empty can come right from Dead Money. And Ulysses, he is the man who turned down the package. He was the one who got me shot above all else. And if someone is talking about The Courier and it isn't me, it is him. I'd love to know about all of those things.

Ahh, most of that stuff was outside so I was fine with leaving it. Though yeah, grabbing some Sorrow or Dead Horse outfits were rarities.

[Osterbaum]

I'm a collector.
I just NEED to have every firearm in the game on display in my Novac appartment. I just go back there every once in a while and choose which couple of weapons I want to take out this time.

Honest Hearts was pretty good. A tad on the short side, but I guess I wasn't really expecting much more from a 10€ DLC.

e: Although if it was 10$ on Steam for you guys, then maybe I should've expected it to be less than 10€ for me!

[Krylo]

I just NEED to have every firearm in the game on display in my Novac appartment. I just go back there every once in a while and choose which couple of weapons I want to take out this time.

I only put the unique weapons on display, but keep multiples of every other weapon in one wardrobe in the lucky 38, then put multiples of every piece of clothing/armor in another one, then keep miscellaneous shit in the desk, and all my extra ammo in the footlocker at the foot of that bed.

Need multiples for repairing.

Edit: Speaking of unique weapons, they better fuckin' make the DLC that opens up after the ending soon because I want to use the Blade of the East for more than knocking General Oliver out of the park.

[Marc v4.0]

Edit: Speaking of unique weapons, they better fuckin' make the DLC that opens up after the ending soon because I want to use the Blade of the East for more than knocking General Oliver out of the park.

They have stated multiple times that this absolutly would not be happening at all.

[Krylo]

Those fucks.

Edit: I mean even ignoring the whole 'Unique weapon I can use for all of ten seconds' thing, all the DLC really fucks up the pacing of the game. The original obsidian writing team did a good job making what you were doing seem urgent to the point that all the side questing already seems kind of weird. "Gotta find the guy who shot me in the head and stole my shit... right after I shut down this radio station... and become a member of the Brotherhood of Steel... and reroute a satellite into a death ray... and get some deathclaw eggs for this omelette... and I guess I should stop the powder gangers quick... and head to this old casino" and then as you get closer to the end it just gets even more ridiculous. "Caesar's Legion is going to attack at any moment you say? Hold on. Running off to Utah."

And there's two more DLC slotted to be released.

This stuff worked fine in FO3 because Bethseda is honestly terrible at pacing already. Nothing felt urgent in FO3 until the very end. Hell, when you first come out of the Vault there's a good chance your character doesn't even really give a shit about finding his/her dad in so much as surviving. Which makes all the side questing feel natural. You're just out finding your way in the wasteland, learning about your new world, and righting wrongs or making yourself rich as shit (depending on whether you're being 'good' or 'bad'). That's not really the case in New Vegas.

[Marc v4.0]

Makes perfect sense. The ending consequences are much more varied in New Vegas as compared to FO3, and much of it would be immediate. It would be a huge undertaking to account for every possible outcome that a player could gain from the endings, so they just aren't going to bother.

[Krylo]

Not really. The endings wouldn't really change much in an immediate sense.

You sided with House? You're his lieutenant. You keep the Lucky 38. He's hanging out. There's less NCR troopers and Legion troopers. Still some because evacuating an army takes time. Maybe they're a little tense with you.

You sided with Yes Man. Same as siding with House but there's no House.

You sided with NCR? Same as siding with House but the Securitrons are MAYBE missing, and the NCR doesn't hate you. Wouldn't even need to do that much.

You sided with the Legion? World still remains basically the same but everyone hates you except the Legion.

Unless opening up the ending was like three years later, there wouldn't need to be much/anything in the way of changes to the game world. Drop a couple of NPCs out, change some dialogue here and there. Only thing that would REALLY have to change would be making Hoover Dam Legion/NCR/Securitron controlled.

Edit: I mean 99% of the 'changes' from the ending are already in before you actually get to the ending. The only change is who's in control of Hoover Dam and whether the NCR is pulling out or not.

Edit: Hell, they wouldn't even have to remove NCR from Camp McCarran or the Strip. House/Yes Man would probably want them to stay for monetary purposes/be shut down robbing you of the ability to kick them out, and the Legion would take awhile to reamass its forces for a push further west.

[Osterbaum]

Especially The Lonesome Road would could easily happen after the ending of NW. After saving the world/dooming it whatever, the hero confronts his own personal antagonist.

[Krylo]

Especially The Lonesome Road would could easily happen after the ending of NW. After saving the world/dooming it whatever, the hero confronts his own personal antagonist.

This is kinda what I figured would happen, until Marc informed me of the news. Especially considering running off to The Divide in the middle of the events of New Vegas doesn't really make sense from a story telling perspective.

[Overcast]

I already knew the after the end thing wasn't going to happen. I made my peace with it with a couple well placed mods because even if they won't let me, I'm still able to. Go PC!

[Krylo]

I already knew the after the end thing wasn't going to happen. I made my peace with it with a couple well placed mods because even if they won't let me, I'm still able to. Go PC!

To the Fallout Nexus, then, I guess.

[Marc v4.0]

Unless you want everyone to act like nothing happened, they have a rewrite a great deal of faction interactions. Make sure towns that got sacked become sacked. Depending on some companion endings, you will lose some of them.

After they work all that shit out, they still have to work on the DLC itself.

That is a massive amount of work for the 3-6 person teams they have that work on DLC.

[Krylo]

Still not seeing how it even compares with the amount they already did to FO:3.

Also: What towns get sacked? MAYBE Novac and Camp Golf? I know they get attacked, but I've never had them actually lose in all the times I've beaten it. That's a total of two. Compared to making new art assets for Aqua Pura and Cura? Compared to adding all new NPCs? All new quest lines? Dropping NPCs and replacing houses with burnt husks and then tossing in some new assets for the hotel and Dinosaur is that much more work? Just because you might not see it?

And so what if companions leave you? They already have the code in to toss all your companion's shit on you and make them leave. They used it for Arcade, and for the two in Honest Hearts.

And faction interactions? Again: Does not compare to the amount of rewriting they had to do for FO:3's post ending, with all the new quests scattered around the wasteland and what have you.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be a lot of work, but it wouldn't be an appreciably greater amount than went into opening up the ending after Fallout 3. There's not HUGE difference to Nevada immediately after the ending past who controls the Hoover Dam, and the differences between House/Yes Man/The NCR are going to be pretty minor, and even the Legion could be justified in having pretty minor changes throughout.

So yeah, it'd be a lot of work/impossible at this point but not in the seven months from release of the game to the release of the last DLC. Hell, they could have pushed all the DLC back a few months if really necessary.

I'm just not seeing where you seem to think that because you're allowed to side with three factions that the world is going to change immensely like five seconds after the battle of Hoover Dam is finished to the point that it would be SO MUCH MORE WORK than it was to introduce all the new shit that Broken Steel did. Not even asking for more quests in the open wasteland, or new NPCs or whatever like Broken Steel added. Just the ability to wander around Nevada after the fact so as to maintain story consistency.

[Marc v4.0]

That's just what they have said, that the sheer amount of ending permutations makes writing an after-battle world for every combination that a player can choose an impossible prospect and considerably more work then any of the DLCs have been.