Homestuck Mafia Thread

[rpgdemon]

Could ask P-Sleazy to post his role.

[Fenris]

Could ask P-Sleazy to post his role.

That could work, if he's willing.

[Solid Snake]

Are we allowed to PM eachother about this? Since you could ask P-Sleazy to PM you his role, as a test.

No PMs, guys.
Everyone playing gets to see whatever arguments or information is divulged, right here.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

That could work, if he's willing.

Which of course he probably won't be. If he's any important role for us he becomes a target immediately. If we ask that of him with the stipulation that he be lynched otherwise we might be forcing him into a lose-lose situation.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Also the Two times for two actions thing leads me to believe Fenris is Sollux, while it wouldn't be surprising for there to be something else to it, there's nothing in the story as far as I know to indicate that Sollux's powers only work half the time.

[rpgdemon]

It's also worth mentioning that this lynching deserves extra thought, not just because it involves me, but because after today, the town will be mob-run if we don't hit the right person. If a townie dies today during the lynch, and the mob kills someone during the night, there will be eight people left.

If the mob are the Midnight Crew (Hegemonious Brute is a member of a gang called the Midnight Crew, in Homestuck), there are four scum, and they'll have the majority vote, at which point it will be impossible for them to lose.

I have a theory, thinking on this stuff. A bandwagon of votes (Which has happened each and every time someone pointed a finger with a modicum of evidence) can just be the entirety of the mob jumping on and killing townies, instead of doing night kills, in order to make it seem as if they're inactive. The only time the bandwagon hasn't happened was against P-Sleazy, as far as I can remember. There may be a few more people who had evidence given against them who weren't bandwagonned, as well, and I'd suggest looking through the archives and seeing who hasn't been bandwagonned, after evidence has been brought up against them. I'd bet you get scum out of them. I'd do it myself, but since I'm already being disputed, anything that I do will be disputed as trying to throw people under the bus, and after I get lynched, it'll be too late for you to believe me, unless the guy who's been kidnapped comes back. So if you all do it independently, and come up with the same people to point at, it'll be more conclusive and better.

But since this has come down to between me and P-Sleazy (Maybe? Or maybe Snake was rolling on whether or not to tell the truth), I'm gonna point out that he definitely falls under the suspicions of that theory.

[rpgdemon]

Which of course he probably won't be. If he's any important role for us he becomes a target immediately. If we ask that of him with the stipulation that he be lynched otherwise we might be forcing him into a lose-lose situation.

You've already put me into that situation. And I'm the one that you actually ought to trust.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

You've already put me into that situation. And I'm the one that you actually ought to trust.

You put yourself into that situation and whats more you're not in that situation in the first place because according to your own words you can't be killed save justly or heroically. Which means either lynching or I'd guess dying while performing some other action.

As a tactic the very idea that the Mafia would forgo their kills for the sake of an extremely long and risky maneuver seems laughable at best. You're right about one and only one thing and that's that the mafia is incredibly close to victory at this point, but that being the case if they'd dropped this plan you propose they have last night they would already have that precious majority.

[rpgdemon]

They'd be one off of a majority today, and suddenly no longer would look inactive, which could give away their ruse a day before they have a guaranteed majority.

The whole ruse relies on us searching for the inactive scum, while they're being active and bandwagonning right under our noses. Once their action will secure a majority though, it becomes safe for them to act.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

They'd be one off of a majority today, and suddenly no longer would look inactive, which could give away their ruse a day before they have a guaranteed majority.

The whole ruse relies on us searching for the inactive scum, while they're being active and bandwagonning right under our noses. Once their action will secure a majority though, it becomes safe for them to act.

I mean that they would be able to gain it today, and extremely easily too. Unless the town in its entirety wised up and voted accurately at a single mafiate, which isn't likely at all.

[rpgdemon]

Well, right now we're looking for inactive players, since we're assuming that they're just not paying attention, right?

But if the scum were going through with my theory, we -ought- to be looking at active players. And if they kill someone off, we might think that they are paying attention, and then we could wise up to their plan which I outlined above.

But it all doesn't matter since you're lynching me anyway and then they win. D:<

[Aldurin]

rpg, just take your lynching without complaint. If you're really a townie then we'll make Fenris die next.

[Aldurin]

Oh yeah, poor move on your part to so quickly claim to be the towniest of townies possible in Homestuck.

[rpgdemon]

rpg, just take your lynching without complaint. If you're really a townie then we'll make Fenris die next.

That makes no sense at all. My lynching is -literally- the end of the game if you're wrong and a townie, and literally winning the game if the townies are wrong and you're a scum.

Only a scum would want a lynch target to just take it without complaint, since a townie ought tow ant to lynch the right person, especially when it's the last one that matters in the game.

[rpgdemon]

Plus, if Fenris is scum, you'd be completely unable to lynch him next round, since the scum have the majority at that point.

Though, it might make sense for him to be scum and Sollux be a ruse, if he investigated me, found I was bulletproof, then did this bit, but that's incredibly convoluted and requires a lot of dumb luck to kill me, when he could just go for someone else in town, and then have the majority anyways, to lynch me next turn.

It makes no sense for Fenris to be scum, is what I'm saying, even if he's wrong. He'd have to go, "OKAY, SO, I'M GOING TO RANDOMLY CHOOSE THIS ABILITY THAT I HOPE THAT NO ONE HAS, MAKE UP PARAMETERS FOR IT, THEN USE IT TO SAY THAT ONE OF US IS NOT SCUM AND ONE OF US IS, WHEN WE KNOW THAT NO ONE WITH THIS ABILITY HAS DIED YET AND IT'S BEEN A TON OF VANILLAS, SO WE'VE GOT PRETTY MUCH A STACKED TEAM OF NON-VANILLA TOWNIES AGAINST THE SCUM NOW, ONE OF WHOM WOULD PROBABLY HAVE THIS ABILITY THAT I CHOSE RANDOMLY." It really makes no sense for him to be scum. On the other hand, it'd be great for scum to kill him, since they know he's a power role now, who can save others.

[Fenris]

I have a theory, thinking on this stuff. A bandwagon of votes (Which has happened each and every time someone pointed a finger with a modicum of evidence) can just be the entirety of the mob jumping on and killing townies, instead of doing night kills, in order to make it seem as if they're inactive. The only time the bandwagon hasn't happened was against P-Sleazy, as far as I can remember.

The bandwagon began against P-Sleazy, but I argued it away from him because it was 1) wrong and 2) stupid.

[Fenris]

Which of course he probably won't be. If he's any important role for us he becomes a target immediately. If we ask that of him with the stipulation that he be lynched otherwise we might be forcing him into a lose-lose situation.

Well, we're going to lose tomorrow anyway, if what rpg said is true. He might as well confirm whether or not my machines work so we hit the right guy today.

[rpgdemon]

I wouldn't call it a bandwagon on him. It was only three people, two of whom are dead (Or imminently deceased) townies. The third is Bard.

[Fenris]

I wouldn't call it a bandwagon on him. It was only three people, two of whom are dead (Or imminently deceased) townies. The third is Bard.

Thus the whole "began" bit and not the "succeeded" bit.

[Aldurin]

Plus, if Fenris is scum, you'd be completely unable to lynch him next round, since the scum have the majority at that point.

The exact number of scum has been dubious for quite a while, and only the scum would know how many there are. Your statement about the scum getting majority indicates that you know the exact number of scum which means you are one of them.

Thanks for the confession.

[rpgdemon]

Is it painfully obvious to anyone else that Aldurin is scum?

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Is it painfully obvious to anyone else that Aldurin is scum?

Only as obvious as it was to Moogle that I'm scum.

[rpgdemon]

Only as obvious as it was to Moogle that I'm scum.

Cue Aldurin going, "CONFESSION!"

[Aldurin]

Cue Aldurin going, "CONFESSION!"

Nah, you're just desperate now since the looming meteor of "Fuck you" that Fenris sent your way is now growing even larger with each post you make.

[rpgdemon]

I'm more concerned about the state of the town, to be honest. If I die, I get to vindictively rub it in your faces. And I like being petty and vindictive.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Man totally forgot about this. Gotta go back through and read everything. Is a lynch imminent or do I have some time?

[Aldurin]

We're going to kill rpg on thursday, on the assumption that Fenris is telling the truth about being the town inventor and investigating rpg to find out he's a scum abductor (explaining Ryanderman). rpg is flailing about in a panic trying to put a scum label on anyone he can (targeting me over his bullshit blood feud thing).

So we're going to see whether or not rpg's corpse is town or scum.

[rpgdemon]

It's worth pointing out that a wrong vote here leads to the town failing, as the scum have the majority if we lynch a townie, and then they make any successful night kill.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Just had a quick catch up, I'm in for an RPG lynch which is the majority at the moment so I wouldn't vote cause I don't want to trigger a lynch (can we get a votecount?) and I want to hear RPG out. I do think we have an idling mafia, it would certainly be an odd tactic to pretend to idle as mafia especially when they would be in charge if they were killing.
I'm thinking Bookie hasn't texted in ages. If he was the mafia boss it would explain why there is no kills.

[Aldurin]

It's worth pointing out that a wrong vote here leads to the town failing, as the scum have the majority if we lynch a townie, and then they make any successful night kill.

Yes, but if we lynch you and the Mafia remains idle then we maintain our majority, assuming that losing two townies would hand over the majority to them.

[rpgdemon]

Do you need the mafia boss in order to make a kill? I was under the impression they voted like we did, and the boss just was the tie breaker.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Pretty much all the games I've played had the mafia boss as the killer. He could take opinions from the others but he was responsible for the PM to the GM so was the control of the kill.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Im just mooching internet off a friend right now, and could only skim the last few pages. Just want to make it known that I'm probably not going to be on much. Ill try to skim the last few pages if I can find time

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Mooching.... like scum!

[Bard The 5th LW]

oh my. i am discovered.

[rpgdemon]

Incidentally, P-Sleazy hasn't weighed in on any of this. He might have just not been around, but it's odd he takes a leave of absence when doing so means that he doesn't have to say that he doesn't know what role he should be if Fenris's machine's right.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Well it seems RPGdemon is the one we're going for this time. I mostly just want to contribute while I can, so Ill follow on this bandwagon.

##vote: RPGdemon

[rpgdemon]

I have a theory, thinking on this stuff. A bandwagon of votes (Which has happened each and every time someone pointed a finger with a modicum of evidence) can just be the entirety of the mob jumping on and killing townies, instead of doing night kills, in order to make it seem as if they're inactive. The only time the bandwagon hasn't happened was against P-Sleazy, as far as I can remember. There may be a few more people who had evidence given against them who weren't bandwagonned, as well, and I'd suggest looking through the archives and seeing who hasn't been bandwagonned, after evidence has been brought up against them. I'd bet you get scum out of them. I'd do it myself, but since I'm already being disputed, anything that I do will be disputed as trying to throw people under the bus, and after I get lynched, it'll be too late for you to believe me, unless the guy who's been kidnapped comes back. So if you all do it independently, and come up with the same people to point at, it'll be more conclusive and better.

*Cough cough*.

Reasons against bandwagoning.

[Fenris]

4 votes for RPG
1 vote for B_real

There's your vote count, smarty.

[rpgdemon]

On some thought, it could make sense for Fenris to have been rolechecking people, saw bulletproof, and then did this plan to lynch me instead, making himself and P-Sleazy look legitimate, and having his actual powers be as stated, just on the scum side. Doesn't make sense that he'd have no advance notice that his role checking would fail. Could be killing me off, relying on a night kill for majority, then winning? I dunno. It's just a thing that I was thinking of. Since I can do as much thinking and talking as I want, and be a MARTYR, once you see I'm a townie and my theories weren't making an attempt to lead you astray. And maybe if we're lucky, some Mob is actually idling, and the town doesn't insta-lose.

So, after you lynch me, if you still have lynching capabilities, go for P-Sleazy, Aldurin, then if you have no one else, go Fenris?

I would still like to point out that P-Sleazy not responding at all to this looks suspicious on his part. No response could be, "Hey, I can't answer correctly, so I'll just idle and hope that since I don't respond, no one will switch votes onto me."

[P-Sleazy]

I can't enjoy a day out with my girlfriend without being harassed about my role? Damn.

Anyways, I'm Dave Strider, Town

Never watched/played homestuck so I don't know what he is. But apperently he's a friend of John Egbert. Sadly, my role does not allow me to know who John Egbert is. But if something were to happen to him, I take on the role of a vigilante.

##VOTE: RPGDEMON

[Fenris]

I can't enjoy a day out with my girlfriend without being harassed about my role? Damn.

Anyways, I'm Dave Strider, Town

Never watched/played homestuck so I don't know what he is. But apperently he's a friend of John Egbert. Sadly, my role does not allow me to know who John Egbert is. But if something were to happen to him, I take on the role of a vigilante.

##VOTE: RPGDEMON

This is what my investigation yielded.

[rpgdemon]

A'ight, might as well supervote lynch me now since I have no way of defense.

Make sure you Vigilante kill a scum tonight, I'd vote Aldurin, and try to hit Scum. Otherwise, the balance immediately shifts, and scum win.

If you hit and miss, scum just have more of a majority (It'd be 50/50 if you do nothing and they kill someone, it'll be more a majority if you hit a townie). If you hit and make a scum kill, though, the town will still be in the majority.

[rpgdemon]

Unless your ability told you that it could sometimes be wrong, Fenris. If not, then dick move Snake. ):<

[Fenris]

A'ight, might as well supervote lynch me now since I have no way of defense.

Make sure you Vigilante kill a scum tonight, I'd vote Aldurin, and try to hit Scum. Otherwise, the balance immediately shifts, and scum win.

If you hit and miss, scum just have more of a majority (It'd be 50/50 if you do nothing and they kill someone, it'll be more a majority if you hit a townie). If you hit and make a scum kill, though, the town will still be in the majority.

If you're that resigned to dying today, you can change your vote to yourself.

[rpgdemon]

Well, I don't really see how else it could turn out, unless your ability says somewhere that it can be wrong. The only real thing that might be evidence of that was if P-Sleazy said something that your ability didn't.

The only other options are:

1) Aldurin (SERIOUSLY, DUDE IS JUST SCREAMING SCUM)
2) Bard has been unable to get to internet recently apparently, and the scum have not been putting in kill orders. Could be related.
3) You and P-Sleazy are both lying in order to disguise yourselves and knock out the bulletproof.

Since I can't think of anything that'd convince me of any of those three options, if I were in an opposite position, I feel as if my lynching is imminent.

[rpgdemon]

Also, I want it to say "John Egbert is dead. He was TOWN Bulletproof." sooner, so I can be all petty and vindicated sooner.

[Fenris]

Well, I don't really see how else it could turn out, unless your ability says somewhere that it can be wrong. The only real thing that might be evidence of that was if P-Sleazy said something that your ability didn't.

The only other options are:

1) Aldurin (SERIOUSLY, DUDE IS JUST SCREAMING SCUM)
2) Bard has been unable to get to internet recently apparently, and the scum have not been putting in kill orders. Could be related.
3) You and P-Sleazy are both lying in order to disguise yourselves and knock out the bulletproof.

Since I can't think of anything that'd convince me of any of those three options, if I were in an opposite position, I feel as if my lynching is imminent.

Also, I want it to say "John Egbert is dead. He was TOWN Bulletproof." sooner, so I can be all petty and vindicated sooner.

Like I said, you can just vote for yourself, and end the day right now, and then be all petty and vindicated if you're telling the truth.

[rpgdemon]

Well, I'm just waiting to hear if you had anything in your thing saying your investigations can be wrong.

[Fenris]

Well, I'm just waiting to hear if you had anything in your thing saying your investigations can be wrong.

No such thing was said to me, no, but if my role was broken (which P-Sleazy's role claim seems to indicate no), I probably wouldn't be informed of it.

[Aldurin]

Please rpg, stop before I have to increase my facepalm counter for this game (it's gotten pretty high since the HORRIFIC lynching decisions we've made in the past).

[rpgdemon]

Alright, well, dick move Snake. ):< Making players thrust into an unwinnable situation based on a double random chance (Randomly getting chosen, randomly not being given the right description) thing that they have no control over is not good design.


##unvote: P-Sleazy

But you know what? I don't want to believe this is an unwinnable situation. I am not changing my vote to me. I DEFY anyone to come out and be John Egbert. Who wants to prove their accusations right, that I was taking refuge in audacity, by pretending to be the main character of Homestuck?

If it were true, why didn't you come out and say it at first, when I first came out and said I was Egbert, when I thought we were supposed to RP this thing?

See if anyone pops out to say that they're me. Wait on the lynch at least until then. If they do, they prove themselves as scum come the lynch, if I'm a townie. Or, if I'm not a townie, they can easily resolve and clarify this situation, at no risk to themselves. If no one comes out and says that they're Egbert, I think that's telling enough by itself. I highly doubt that you guys would think the main character role of Homestuck would be left blank, or left to be a safe character for a scum to pretend to be. Heck, there are exactly three characters who would make sense to be bulletproofs.

1) John Egbert.
2) Vriska.
3) Aradia.

All three of them, through shenanigans in story, reached a state where they can only be killed heroically or justly. If any of those three come out and say that their identity is one of those three characters, I'll self lynch, and you have an immediate target who is scum, once you see that I'm a townie. If none of them come out and say anything, well, that offers credence to my story, wouldn't it?

I defy one of those three to come out as TOWN Bulletproof.

If I'm lying, and they are one of these three characters, coming out costs them nothing, as the Mob still can't target them, -and- they get to prove themselves to be innocent, come next lynch, if I'm scum. If I'm a townie though, and telling the truth, no scum would dare take their name, as they'd identify themselves.

[Fenris]

rpg, just 'cause you're bulletproof doesn't preclude other people from also being bulletproof.

The whole basis of this defense is flawed from the beginning.

[Fenris]

rpg, just 'cause you're bulletproof doesn't preclude other people from also being bulletproof.

The whole basis of this defense is flawed from the beginning.

This is from a game I ran, simply because it comes to mind:

Lookit alla 'dem duplicate roles (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=26088)

I mean, it's not unheard of to have a couple duplicates. Especially in a game that doesn't seem to have more than one night-killer.

[rpgdemon]

All it would mean if other people are bulletproofs is that on my side the defense is harder to maintain. If other bulletproofs exist, then even if I'm telling the truth about being John, I could still be "proven" wrong. And heck, they could claim to be one of the other two characters listed, and say that even if I'm telling the truth about being John, they're totally that other character.

I can't be proven right by extra bulletproofs though. In fact, they'd double prove me wrong.

[Fenris]

All it would mean if other people are bulletproofs is that on my side the defense is harder to maintain. If other bulletproofs exist, then even if I'm telling the truth about being John, I could still be "proven" wrong. And heck, they could claim to be one of the other two characters listed, and say that even if I'm telling the truth about being John, they're totally that other character.

I can't be proven right by extra bulletproofs though. In fact, they'd double prove me wrong.

What?

This isn't even a defense anymore, you're just spouting words.

[rpgdemon]

Yes it is.

Look at it logically: Having duplicate Bulletproof roles means that I can be proven to be a liar, by my defense stated above, even if I'm not a liar.

On the other hand, having duplicate Bulletproof roles can't prove me to be telling the truth, if I'm not telling the truth.

[Fenris]

Yes it is.

Look at it logically: Having duplicate Bulletproof roles means that I can be proven to be a liar, by my defense stated above, even if I'm not a liar.

On the other hand, having duplicate Bulletproof roles can't prove me to be telling the truth, if I'm not telling the truth.

That's not logic though, if there are duplicate bulletproof roles, that means that two (or more!) people are immune to night kills.

This is not at all uncommon in mafia games.

[rpgdemon]

It is completely looking at the thing logically.

If a bulletproof comes out as being bulletproof, I will take it as conclusive, hatchet buried in the corpse evidence, that I am unsalvageably seen as scum. There's no way that a scum would lie about being bulletproof just to put me under the dagger a bit more, if I were innocent, as I'll be lynched within 48 hours without their intervention. The only people who would want to come out as bulletproof are those who themselves are town bulletproofs, and believe me to be scum, to prove that I'm scum. They have nothing to lose by doing so. The only reason -NOT- to come out as being a town bulletproof is if you know that I'm innocent, and don't want to make yourself look guilty.

[rpgdemon]

All that a second bulletproof would mean is someone can be convinced that I'm scum because they're bulletproof and because of your investigation, and say, "Yo, I'm bulletproof", without lying. All that it means is that there wouldn't even be very negative repercussions to the scum who do it, except if they get caught by the real person they're trying to impersonate.

[Fenris]

It is completely looking at the thing logically.

If a bulletproof comes out as being bulletproof, I will take it as conclusive, hatchet buried in the corpse evidence, that I am unsalvageably seen as scum. There's no way that a scum would lie about being bulletproof just to put me under the dagger a bit more, if I were innocent, as I'll be lynched within 48 hours without their intervention. The only people who would want to come out as bulletproof are those who themselves are town bulletproofs, and believe me to be scum, to prove that I'm scum. They have nothing to lose by doing so. The only reason -NOT- to come out as being a town bulletproof is if you know that I'm innocent, and don't want to make yourself look guilty.

1) Scum would totally lie about being bulletproof. They have a safe list, as you said.
2) Or Scum bulletproofs. Or scum in general.
3) I have no objections to other people coming out as bulletproof, except for the fact that scum then know who not to target.

And the whole horrible defense that I still need to take the time to dissect thing is irritating, too.

[rpgdemon]

Your argument against my defense is that it's not foolproof. My argument is that even if it can be spoofed, the only way that it can be spoofed is to falsely make me look guilty. Can you think of a single way that I would falsely look innocent?

[Fenris]

Somebody doesn't claim it because they're inactive and then you're still scum?

[rpgdemon]

"(01:48:17) Aldurin: oh man, give it up rpg
(01:48:29) Aldurin: vote for yourself and end the suffering"

Why would someone want a speedy kill? It doesn't help at all, and just means that if the kill is wrong (IT IS!), the scum move towards their goal more quickly.

I believe that someone else here said, the lynch cap is helpful only to the scum, as it leads to hasty decisions that could be wrong, and means that the town has less time to think on who to lynch.

[Fenris]

6: Do not communicate with each other outside the game regarding this topic, even after you've died. Exceptions are clearly delineated. Even if you fall under an exception, though, you may only communicate with your partners or teammates so long as you are alive.

Uh.

[Aldurin]

It means I don't want to wait for whatever more days it is of you arguing with Fenris.

[Fenris]

Why would someone want a speedy kill? It doesn't help at all, and just means that if the kill is wrong (IT IS!), the scum move towards their goal more quickly.

Yeah, but if the kill is right (IT IS!), then we kill a mafiate.

[rpgdemon]

Not my fault. Aldurin started heckling me in the chat. I put it here so that it would be publicly visible to those outside the chat.

(01:45:40) Fenris: rpg you type too slow
(01:45:45) Fenris: you're keeping me up and I need to be up in 4 hours
(01:46:11) ChatBot: Aldurin logs into the Chat.
(01:46:15) rpgdemon: Screw you.
(01:46:17) Darth_SS: I'm not getting the RCR reference. Blasphemous, I know
(01:46:19) rpgdemon: You don't understand logic.
(01:46:20) rpgdemon: D:<
(01:46:28) Fenris: no, you suck at logic
(01:46:30) rpgdemon: I keep having to reexplain myself in different ways.
(01:46:36) rpgdemon: I think I finally have it though.
(01:46:43) rpgdemon: It's up there.
(01:46:46) Aldurin: Are you two unable to keep the mafia argument in the thread?
(01:46:57) CelesJessa: SS- no it's not really a reference
(01:47:08) CelesJessa: but there was a flash with sprites from RCR to this song
(01:47:12) CelesJessa: and it was the first time I heard this song
(01:47:41) Darth_SS: But it was also the INFERIOR way to hear this song. DAFT HANDS FOR LIFE!
(01:47:55) rpgdemon: I posit you suck at logic, if you can't see my argument in the latest post!
(01:47:59) CelesJessa: haha well the hands are cool too(01:48:13) Fenris: Man
(01:48:17) Aldurin: oh man, give it up rpg
(01:48:17) CelesJessa: also RCR is an awesome game
(01:48:19) Fenris: when your posts can be refuted by one sentence
(01:48:21) Fenris: just give up
(01:48:29) Aldurin: vote for yourself and end the suffering(01:48:30) Darth_SS: true dat.
(01:48:42) CelesJessa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c?I1ETfJ_HSM here's the RCR one
(01:48:43) Fenris: anyway we should stop talking about details of mafia games
(01:48:48) Fenris: details of logic totally acceptable
(01:49:11) Aldurin: so rpg, when are you gonna remove the blood feud thing from your sig?
(01:49:26) Aldurin: it's been sitting there pointlessly for FOREVER(01:49:42) Fenris: type faster
(01:49:44) Fenris: goddamn
(01:49:56) Fenris: I have 14 hours of marching around with a goddamn tuba on my back tomorrow
(01:50:30) Aldurin: what were you busted for that earned you that sentence?
(01:51:01) rpgdemon: Screw youuuu.
(01:51:07) rpgdemon: I have to think of words.
(01:51:19) Aldurin: you're drunk aren't you?
(01:51:23) Fenris: oh jesus(01:51:26) Darth_SS: yes(01:51:29) Fenris: oh fucking jesus
(01:51:59) Fenris: posting a chatlog?
(01:52:26) Aldurin: might as well, I'd do the same if I started a mafia discussion
(01:53:09) Fenris: well
(01:53:30) Fenris: check my post I guess

So no acting all high and mighty. I was dragged into such a thing, and was doing as was said in here before and making all conversation happenings public, since it all has to be in this thread.

[Fenris]

All I said was type faster

and also that you suck at logic

[Solid Snake]

What the fuck is going on here.
(Stay tuned for edits.)

[Aldurin]

Ok, I thought they were already dragging the debate outside for a moment (I thought it'd be cool as long as the log was posted) and I put in a bit of what we already know.

I get it, no more discussions outside of here.

[rpgdemon]

I posted the log since it started straying from Fenris and I going, "I posted" to heckling, which might have been relevant.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Alright, well, dick move Snake. ):< Making players thrust into an unwinnable situation based on a double random chance (Randomly getting chosen, randomly not being given the right description) thing that they have no control over is not good design.


##unvote: P-Sleazy

But you know what? I don't want to believe this is an unwinnable situation. I am not changing my vote to me. I DEFY anyone to come out and be John Egbert. Who wants to prove their accusations right, that I was taking refuge in audacity, by pretending to be the main character of Homestuck?

If it were true, why didn't you come out and say it at first, when I first came out and said I was Egbert, when I thought we were supposed to RP this thing?

See if anyone pops out to say that they're me. Wait on the lynch at least until then. If they do, they prove themselves as scum come the lynch, if I'm a townie. Or, if I'm not a townie, they can easily resolve and clarify this situation, at no risk to themselves. If no one comes out and says that they're Egbert, I think that's telling enough by itself. I highly doubt that you guys would think the main character role of Homestuck would be left blank, or left to be a safe character for a scum to pretend to be. Heck, there are exactly three characters who would make sense to be bulletproofs.

1) John Egbert.
2) Vriska.
3) Aradia.

All three of them, through shenanigans in story, reached a state where they can only be killed heroically or justly. If any of those three come out and say that their identity is one of those three characters, I'll self lynch, and you have an immediate target who is scum, once you see that I'm a townie. If none of them come out and say anything, well, that offers credence to my story, wouldn't it?

I defy one of those three to come out as TOWN Bulletproof.

If I'm lying, and they are one of these three characters, coming out costs them nothing, as the Mob still can't target them, -and- they get to prove themselves to be innocent, come next lynch, if I'm scum. If I'm a townie though, and telling the truth, no scum would dare take their name, as they'd identify themselves.

Lets just say I got all the luck.

All of it.

[rpgdemon]

Alright, fair enough.

I'll go by my word. VINDICATION.

##vote: RPGDemon

[Bard The 5th LW]

To specify, I am Vriska Serket, Town Bulletproof. Power came back on by the way.

[rpgdemon]

(I still vote that you Vigilante kill Aldurin, P-Sleazy.)

[Solid Snake]

RULES CLARIFICATION TIME:

I'm not going to Modkill three of you for 'breaking the rules' or anything (even though I find myself somewhat tempted) and I guess my rules weren't as explicit as they should have been in defining 'communications outside the game regarding this topic' but damn, let me make this clear, as something that should be true from now on:

1: No talking about the Mafia games among live players in the chatroom, period. Hell I don't even want dead players chatting about the game because live players could always show up and learn stuff. But if you're alive you have to do all communications in this thread, where everyone can read them and where I can feel assured that you're following the rules, because I may not end up with a record of everything said in the chat.

2: I don't care in what context you're talking about the Mafia game, if you're someone who is still alive, ALL COMMUNICATION OF ANY SORT involving the game should be in this topic, where everyone in Town can see it. And no, promising to make a log after the fact is not a permissible excuse.

3: Only exceptions are:
A: If your role explicitly provides you can communicate with someone else (and even then, you don't talk in a public chatroom, but instead over private PMs or IMs);
B: If you're dead and ONLY if you're dead, you can talk privately (or PM, IM, or someplace where there's no chance an alive player can read your thoughts) with either another dead player (though you should probably ask the Host for confirmation that the other dead player cannot be revived before doing so) or anyone not involved in the Mafia game.
C: Communications between you and the Host.

All of these exceptions require private communications. Not chatrooms. Never chatrooms.

This frankly should be a rule in all Mafia games, but I obviously can't enforce that. At the very least, it's going to be a rule in any I happen to run. Future infractions, if proven to me, will result in Modkills (if crucial information regarding your role is leaked) or Replacements (if crucial information is not leaked.)

In this case I'd have to go the Replacement route, and I'm not in the mood to replace three of our more active players just because I wasn't as explicit as I apparently should have been in something I erroneously assumed would be intuitively understood.

[rpgdemon]

Sorry about that, in any case. I figured Fenris and I going back and forth essentially saying that we've posted would be fine, but then we strayed a bit from heckling about playing the game to heckling about the game, so I figured it ought to be posted visibly.

[Solid Snake]

Oh welp my entire post there has just been rendered largely irrelevant.

RPGDemon stood, falsely accused, wearing GARMENTS IN BLUE that friend and foe alike apparently COULD NOT SEE. "I'm John," he said, though no one appeared to BELIEVE him. "Don't you recognize me? I'm your friend! I'm John," he cried again. Yet the voices in the chorus of lynchers refuted him at every turn, and the young boy who had once been so optimistic and brave found himself losing his confidence with every insult slung against him.

Finally, he decided he could not take the pain and the suffering anymore. "I am no abductor! I'm John! Remember me?" He cried, yet still to no avail. I should have expected this, he thought. Karkat is dead, he's gone, he was one of my closest friends, he can't protect me anymore. Feferi and Nepeta, they'd never turn against me, they were too sweet and kind, but these others...
...these others included harsher and sterner folks, and those who could not recognize him.

"I'm John and I'll prove it!" He shouted. Yes, he thought. Killing myself is drastic, but I've suffered death before, and I've always come back. I'm immortal now. And suicide is never 'Just.' It is a loophole.
He threw himself into the arms of his accusers. "Lynch me. Do it." I will protect my friends. My death will spare theirs. I have no regrets. This is what Cameron Poe would do.

And so he DIED, killed by his own hand, in either a reckless move of folly that demanded a JUST DEATH or a brave move of self-sacrifice that was TOO HEROIC. Either way, his death was permanent, and the HEIR OF BREATH drew his last.

rpgdemon has DIED. He was John Egbert, TOWN Bulletproof.

Votes:
[6] rpgdemon: Fenris, Aldurin, Moogle0119, Bard, P-Sleazy, RPGDemon
[0] P-Sleazy: (rpgdemon)

Survivors:

2. Moogle0119
4. Fenris
6. Aldurin
7. Bard the 5th
8. Revolving Ocelot / Karesh
9. Mr. Bookworm
12. Smarty
13. P-Sleazy
14. Lumenskir

The Dead:
[N1] greed: Karkat Vantas, TOWN Vanilla
[D2] Thadius: Equius Zahhak, TOWN (Strong) Vanilla
[D3] Sifright: Feferi Peixes, TOWN Doctor
[D4] Inbred Chocobo: Nepeta Leijon, TOWN Vanilla
[D5] RPGDemon: John Egbert, TOWN Bulletproof

The Missing:
[N3] Ryanderman: [??]

Night will last until 3:00AM Thursday the 18th, (if necessary.)

[Solid Snake]

Welp, no sense in delaying what cannot be prevented.

The Scumteam has chosen to kill Smarty McBarrelpants, who was Wayward Vagabond, TOWN Mayor.
No presently existing Town Role could do anything to stop this kill, and the kill brings Scum to 50/50 with Town, meaning Town cannot get a lynch off as scum can block the lynch, meaning Mafia wins the game.

Fenris wins! He was Hegemonic Brute, SCUM Abductor.
P-Sleazy wins! He was Courtyard Droll, SCUM Godfather.
Lumenskir wins! (Even the inactive have their day.) He was Draconian Dignitary, SCUM Roleblocker.
Bard the 5th LW wins! He was Jack Noir, SCUM Bulletproof Jack of All Trades.

Ryanderman's missing body has been RECOVERED. He was Sollux Captor, TOWN Inventor.

Moogle0119 was Windswept Questant, TOWN Vanilla.
Aldurin was Terezi Pyrope, TOWN Cop.
Karesh was Rose Lalonde, TOWN Miller.
Mr. Bookworm was Peregrine Mendicant, TOWN Postman.

I have a few additional notes regarding roles and a vast array of criticisms to make at Town for basically granting Mafia a flawless victory, but the single biggest thing that hurt town was inactivity. Put simply, major Town roles were either inactive or refused to act at the worst possible times. Even many of you who were quite active really never participated or fished for claims or information throughout the Days, essentially leading to a series of lynches where one of the first and only persons suspected was inevitably going to be lynched by a very small minority of the potential votes. Two or three people should never single-handily decide a lynch.

A few Quick Hits before I go to bed:

* The Abductor role enabled the scumteam alone to learn the identity of the abducted target. I actually thought they'd use it N1 so they could quickly claim the role of the person abducted, but Scum's plan worked out quite well for them, as evidenced by Fenris' ploy. I can't believe Fenris successfully goaded RPGDemon into giving up and killing himself, and I can't believe no one questioned the possibly Fenris was lying when Ryanderman had been abducted.

* Smarty McBarrelpants was given a gift in the form of an Invention that he never used. For the life of me, I'll never understand why he never used it (given he had two nights to do so in which he was not targeted, and the device would have yielded ample information) and I won't understand why he didn't come off immensely skeptical of Fenris' Inventor claim because the nature of Fenris' 'Inventions' completely contradicted the nature of the 'Gift' Smarty was given. I wouldn't have personally had two Townie Inventors running around giving gifts.

* Furthermore, Aldurin as Cop had successfully scanned Bard GUILTY and I was so certain that Aldurin was going to lead a Bard lynch after that scan that I began seeking replacements under the assumption the game would last a bit longer. I can't believe Fenris' gambit got Aldurin off a lynch possibility he had to have been almost certain would flip scum. Aldurin had also scanned several innocents, including Thadius (who he let get lynched anyway, though I don't blame him for not revealing he was a Cop at the time) and P-Sleazy (sadly P-Sleazy was Godfather, meaning his 'ability' was scanning Innocent to the Cop.)

* Fenris' Inventor as was described was way too powerful; I'd never have let it into one of my Mafia games. (Obviously Fenris would likely disagree.)

* The first No-Kill was actually prevented by some shrewd play by the Doctor, Sifright, who successfully predicted scum would go after Karesh (the new guy) and got lynched for his troubles. I still don't understand why Sifright didn't claim Doctor before he was lynched as even if he'd be setting himself for an inevitable Nightkill he'd still, in the process of preventing Town from lynching a claim they'd never lynch, ensure a greater likelihood that Scum was lynched, creating an even one-for-one trade.

* Second No-Kill at Night was just scumteam being lazy. Half of Town Power and no Scum Members submitted actions that 'Night.'

* I allowed Smarty's role to Mayor himself, as some Mayors (or Governors) can do just that, which probably explained why he did, in fact, act scummy enough D1 to Mayor himself.

* RPGDemon your role of all roles was absolutely the one role you weren't supposed to make any references to D1; Scum won't target you if they have any reason whatsoever to suspect you might be Bulletproof and as a temp-Bulletproof townie you want Scum to waste a shot on you, that is the entire utility of your role! The intended strategy for Town Bulletproofs is to act like you're Cop or Doc and lure a Scum 'kill' that goes nowhere.

* As I alluded to before way too many of you simply didn't submit Night Actions, and that killed Town in particular as the game was really balanced with the intent that you actually used your Actions. Ryanderman told me that he wanted to 'save' his Inventions, but saving them would be for naught if he got lynched or nightkilled before he gave them out, the odds actually most favored him giving it to Townies in the earliest Nights. Instead the Inventor only gave out one Invention before he was offed...to a Townie who was apparently inactive and thus never used the Invention that could have torn the game wide open if it was used.

...Oh, and I should specify that the Inventor role in this game could not give his three available Inventions (one Vig shot, one Tracking device, one Flavor Scanning device) to himself. That probably clarifies my criticism there somewhat. While the Vig Shot would have been deadly if Ryanderman accidentally gave it to scum, the other two devices had no real utility if they were given to a scummate by accident instead of a Townie, so Ryanderman, you really should have given both of those out ASAP, and then claimed Inventor after you gave out all three Inventions.

In addition, the Postman's role was to deliver 'Mail' and, in doing so, essentially become Confirmable and avoid lynches by giving 'Mail' to as many Townies as possible, who'd then back his story the moment he claimed. PM (in Homestuck) is clearly a pro-town role, after all. But Mr. Bookman didn't even deliver Mail at all one 'night', and he delivered mail to P-Sleazy twice in a row. While the Postman Role also enabled the Postman to see whether the visited person 'got up' and took action at Night, this wouldn't be distinguishable as to whether it meant the person was Town Power or Scum; it's great for catching lying Scum who claim 'Nillas in the endgame, but earlier on, the primary use of the Postman role was to become confirmable and effectively unlynchable by sending out as many letters to as many Townies as possible.

* The remaining fun little tidbit is Thadius' role as Equius. His flavor text in the PM I sent him deliberately suggested the fact that there was more than one might guess to his role.
In fact as 'Strong' Vanilla Equius actually became a Revenger if Inbred Chocobo (who was Nepeta) died before him. If you read Homestuck you might understand the reasoning. As Revenger, Thadius would be informed after Inbred died that, if Thadius was then lynched or nightkilled, he'd kill someone with him. If he was lynched, he could choose to kill any one person on his lynch. (Like a bomb.) If he was nightkilled, he automatically killed his killer unless Jack Noir (who could not be nightkilled) submitted the kill.

But the additional quirk to the role was 'hidden,' and was only revealed after Inbred died before Thadius did. I implied secret hidden information to Thadius by deliberately leaving part of his flavor blank and hinting that Equius had more abilities than were initially assumed.

* Inbred Chocobo you were right on like 80% of your hunches but man, half the game is about being charismatic enough to actually convince everyone else that you're on to something. There were many times where I wanted you to be more aggressive, Town really needed a leader to take the reins and ask tough questions.

* As to scum roles: I already explained Fenris' role. Bard basically could not be killed at Night (in essence this part of Bard's role was intended to deceive Scum into assuming there was a Vig, but in fact Bard was also protected from the Vig Kill Invention the Inventor could give out as well as Thadius' potential Revenger Kill.) Bard also had two one-use abilities, a Bus Driver Swap ability (which he used on RPGDemon and Fenris on a night when it had absolutely no impact) and an even stronger ability used on the dead that was never actually used.
Lumenskir could roleblock any townie from using their Power role but, in practice, Lumenskir was just as inactive as half of Town was, so Roleblocking never became much a thing as I had originally anticipated.
P-Sleazy had no active abilities but simply scanned INNOCENT to the Cop.

Finally the way I ran Scumteam was that any member of Scumteam could submit the kills, but whoever submitted a night's kill could not utilize another active action. (And whoever submitted the kill could be tracked and was in danger of being caught by an Invention or the Postman or whatever fictional things Scumteam feared.) That's the way Scumteams have operated on the other board where I've frequently played Mafia, and I prefer that setup over others.

I actually have even more comments to dole out but I'll leave it at this for now and see how y'all react. Congrats to Mafia faction for really whipping Town a new one this game, though I'll always think of this one as one that Town let themselves lose.

[P-Sleazy]

YAY! We WIN!

Also, RPG, can't believe that every frickin day, you kept laying into me, and each day, I narrowly escaped being killed. It was awesome. I was sure that the day after we killed Sifright, we'd go after me. Instead, we let the town go and kill IC.

Super excited. :D

Good Game everyone!

[Sifright]

Well, I kind of gave up trying to defend myself as I didn't think any one would believe me if i said i was the town doctor, but hey yay me saving karesh

[Solid Snake]

Well, I kind of gave up trying to defend myself as I didn't think any one would believe me if i said i was the town doctor, but hey yay me saving karesh

Why wouldn't they?
If you claim Town Doctor, either the claim is countered or it isn't.

If the claim is countered: Only a scummate would counter the claim and pretend he was Doctor. Sure, you'd still be lynched, but the minute you'd flip you'd guarantee Scum died the following day.

If the claim is un-countered: Why wouldn't Town believe that you're Doctor, if no one counters your claim? Town would have to be pretty foolish to do that.

It's funny how NPF appears to play Mafia differently than we play Mafia in my native environs because where I'm from, if you're a Townie you try to force claims all the time to see if you can catch Scum stumbling or prevent your Townmates from lynching a unique Town Power role.
Ironically, the one person who really relied on a similarly cohesive strategy was Fenris, and when he was doing so he was lying to get Town to support a lynch of their own. And RPGDemon in response, although by that point his own efforts felt like self-preservation of the accused.

[Sifright]

basically, I felt that if i revealed my role it would be viewed as me attempting to falsify a role to save my own ass, whether rightly or wrongly. Also at that point it wouldn't have mattered as i think the Mafia players would have forced a lynch on me regardless and having the night to remove another player shift the balance of power enough to ensure a victory either way. I suppose if I thought about it a bit more throughly I should have revealed the roll either way.

[Solid Snake]

Eh, I'm of the opinion that anyone who keeps their vote on a claimed Doctor would look horrifyingly bad once the Doctor flipped, particularly if the Doc claim had not been countered.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Your present PM said I could only use it the night after I recieved it. That night corresponded to the time when my internet was down and I was totally inactive. Don't know when else I was supposed to use my present.

And if I used it would have only helped the mafia more because I was originally planning to target fenris, see he was mafia and then think he was town because inventors are always false inventors.

Mostly I lost interest pretty massively which is why I stopped really posting. Not enough town posting. Not enough shit to pick over in night texts. Meh.

[Fenris]

Ha ha holy shit

[Moogle0119]

Ugh. Really disappointing that we had some townies w/ powers that either didn't act on the powers they were given or just plain weren't active enough to use them. Not saying that alone is what killed us (some lunch choices were made with not much thought behind them imho) but damn, the information that could have been gained would have been real helpful in at least getting one scum role and giving the town a lead we could actually work with.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

The fact that killed us was that none of the town(including me) was that pretty much all the town (including me) was inactive for long stretches and not really playing properly and a few mafia players were, which is all you need. Like I normally read posts throughouly and multiple times and analyse voting patterns and shit but I didn't do that this time at all and nobody else did either. I didn't even read the role fernis was claiming. Urk.

I also totalyl didn't want to get lynched first day. I don't know the fuck that happened.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Fuck!

The whole reason I never voted RPG and just ended it was that I actually suspected Fenris.
I just never got around to actually coming up with a concrete reason why that anyone would buy. Had i voted for him it would have basically been:

"Vote: Fenris. Not sure why, not sure why not. Just really feels good."

[Aldurin]

* Furthermore, Aldurin as Cop had successfully scanned Bard GUILTY and I was so certain that Aldurin was going to lead a Bard lynch after that scan that I began seeking replacements under the assumption the game would last a bit longer. I can't believe Fenris' gambit got Aldurin off a lynch possibility he had to have been almost certain would flip scum. Aldurin had also scanned several innocents, including Thadius (who he let get lynched anyway, though I don't blame him for not revealing he was a Cop at the time) and P-Sleazy (sadly P-Sleazy was Godfather, meaning his 'ability' was scanning Innocent to the Cop.)

You don't understand the half of how awful this went for me. I was frustrated after scanning innocents and watching said innocents get lynched (the beginning of the facepalm counter). I was considering using the Follow the Cop strategy but then that was gone the moment we killed Sifright. After getting a Guilty from Bard I was leaning toward revealing my identity but decided against it when Fenris "revealed his role" before I could even get my bearings for the day.

The worst part for me when I could not make the connection of "why would a scum vote for scum?" when bard put in his vote. Maybe if rpg resisted for longer I would have made the connection, maybe not.

Town has earned a rating of Pineapple on the Facepalm Counter.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I really have no clue how I wasn't lynched on day 2 or 3.

Either way, whoo! We win! Good game all.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Grr, I should have pushed harder on Fenris when he made those claims. DAMNIT, I knew it too.

[rpgdemon]

So, pretty much I was entirely right, and you all disbelieved me?

SUPER VINDICATION.

[rpgdemon]

PS: "Maybe if rpg resisted for longer I would have made the connection, maybe not."

Honestly, part of the reason I gave up was because you begin ad hominem attacks against me in thread, and kept pestering me about it going, "GIVE UP GIVE UP GIVE UP GIVE UP GIVE UP NO ONE BELIEVES YOU SHUT UP GIVE UP SHUT UP YOUR SCUM YOU SUCK GIVE UP"

[rpgdemon]

Like, when that's what you have to work with, there's no way that I'm going to be able to do anything useful.

[Bard The 5th LW]

RPG has total "I told you so" privileges. IC was honestly close. He voted like all us at least once. Should have been more assertive.

Aldurin should have put the pressure on me sooner if he knew. Even if you dont want to come forward as cop, you could try to point it at me through other means.

[Fenris]

Y'all were right about Bard and P-Sleazy, but your reasons were fucking stupid.

Also, really, RPG? Your idea is my machines are broken and not that I'm lying out my ass?

One of my favorite things was that the only vote I made all game was on rpg at the end. I was running a challenge to myself to not vote for anybody until I could force a win. Lumenskir has been inactive since the 2nd, but it turns out we didn't need him.

I think the cherry on top for me is that rpg killed himself, and the town.

Good game y'all, I had tons of fun.

[rpgdemon]

YAY! We WIN!

Also, RPG, can't believe that every frickin day, you kept laying into me, and each day, I narrowly escaped being killed. It was awesome. I was sure that the day after we killed Sifright, we'd go after me. Instead, we let the town go and kill IC.

I know, seriously!

[Fenris]

[12:09:58] Fenris: i'm sorry I stole your identity and killed your friends
[12:21:32] Ryanderman: Ha!
[12:21:36] Ryanderman: No you're not
[12:22:12] Fenris: you're right

[Solid Snake]

So, pretty much I was entirely right, and you all disbelieved me?

SUPER VINDICATION.

Really though the only Townies you could possibly feel vindication from are Aldurin and Moogle. And, uhh...yourself?
You and scum comprised the majority on your lynch. You can't feel vindicated against scum for doing the smart thing and pressuring you into breaking.

Had you resisted, Smarty would've had more time to connect the dots and realize that Fenris couldn't be Inventor given the Invention he received. Who knows what Bookie might have thought. Even Aldurin might eventually have been easily persuaded off you had you resisted given he'd have the Bard lynch as a substitute, and Bard would've looked fishier (and Fenris / P-Sleazy would have looked fishier by association) the longer Bard's vote was on you.
No reason to have given up, is my point.
(There were other chinks in Scum's plan too, like Fenris claiming RPG claimed John Egbert off a safelist, and then P-Sleazy contradicting that by suggesting that his own role became powerful once John Egbert died, therefore John Egbert could not have been on a safelist.)

Also I did err in stating Smarty had multiple nights to use his Invention, that was my bad, it's just been a while since I've been intimately familiar with the way the Inventor worked since he's been dead a while. But even still, Smarty, you totally should have been curious as to why the 'Gift' you received did not in any way match Fenris' description of his Inventor powers.

[rpgdemon]

Yeah, but I like having been completely right about them ruling via lynches and stuff and then getting their majority.

[rpgdemon]

Y'all were right about Bard and P-Sleazy, but your reasons were fucking stupid.

Also, really, RPG? Your idea is my machines are broken and not that I'm lying out my ass?

One of my favorite things was that the only vote I made all game was on rpg at the end. I was running a challenge to myself to not vote for anybody until I could force a win. Lumenskir has been inactive since the 2nd, but it turns out we didn't need him.

I think the cherry on top for me is that rpg killed himself, and the town.

Good game y'all, I had tons of fun.

As time went on, I was swaying more and more towards you lying (As evidenced by putting you as a guy to kill if I die and the town doesn't instalose), but it really wouldn't have done anything, since I was outnumbered like crazy.

Though, I totally would have pinned Aldurin as scum, based on the way he was playing that only really helped scum.

My list was:
P-Sleazy
Aldurin
Bard
Fenris

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Also I did err in stating Smarty had multiple nights to use his Invention, that was my bad, it's just been a while since I've been intimately familiar with the way the Inventor worked since he's been dead a while. But even still, Smarty, you totally should have been curious as to why the 'Gift' you received did not in any way match Fenris' description of his Inventor powers.

Cause I was inactive for ages and only skimmed everyone's post! The lynch came too soon. Dudes should have given me more time to get back into it.

[Fenris]

Cause I was inactive for ages and only skimmed everyone's post! The lynch came too soon. Dudes should have given me more time to get back into it.

Now we couldn't have that, could we?

[Mr.Bookworm]

Courtyard Droll,[/COLOR] Godfather.

:raise:

In addition, the Postman's role was to deliver 'Mail' and, in doing so, essentially become Confirmable and avoid lynches by giving 'Mail' to as many Townies as possible, who'd then back his story the moment he claimed. PM (in Homestuck) is clearly a pro-town role, after all. But Mr. Bookman didn't even deliver Mail at all one 'night', and he delivered mail to P-Sleazy twice in a row. While the Postman Role also enabled the Postman to see whether the visited person 'got up' and took action at Night, this wouldn't be distinguishable as to whether it meant the person was Town Power or Scum; it's great for catching lying Scum who claim 'Nillas in the endgame, but earlier on, the primary use of the Postman role was to become confirmable and effectively unlynchable by sending out as many letters to as many Townies as possible.

I completely and totally fucked up twice, but what the hell is the rest of this about being confirmable? I could only see if someone went out, and that obviously didn't even work all of the time, because I never caught B_real .

[Solid Snake]

:raise:



I completely and totally fucked up twice, but what the hell is the rest of this about being confirmable? I could only see if someone went out, and that obviously didn't even work all of the time, because I never caught B_real .

You send the mail to Person X night 1, Person Y night 2, and Person Z night 3.

Let's say you then attract attention during D4 as a possible lynch candidate. Two of the people you sent mail to are still alive.

You claim. "I'm the postman. I sent mail to Person X night 1, Person Y night 2 (but Person Y is now dead, bummer) and Person Z night 3."

At least one -- if not both -- of the two people you sent messages to who are still alive is statistically very likely to be town. And given that scum is pretending to be town, even if you really screw up and both are scum they're going to immediately look suspicious if he doubts your testimony and then you are lynched and you flip TOWN Postman. Therefore, everyone has an incentive to buy your claim, that you are in fact TOWN-aligned, as it's very unlikely a Mafia host ever creates a similar role and assigns it to scum. I've never seen anything like that, personally.

Even if people don't believe you, the smart play -- and I know Town in this game was somewhat immunized from intelligent choices regarding forcing claims and responding to them, but still -- is to say "Okay, if you really are Town, I'll give you one night to prove it. Send me mail. If I receive it, I'll believe you." (In this game the roleblocker might take advantage of that, but even if the gambit fails, it's always nice to get the RB blocking roles that aren't as useful as Cop or Doc.) Again, the idea here is that Town should almost never lynch a claimed Power role who claims to have a confirmable power. Just as Town should almost never lynch a claimed Cop or Doc unless the Cop or Doc is countered, and similarly should never lynch a claimed Vig under the assumption that if he's not a Vig, the real Vig would either A) counter the claim if he was out of shots or B) stay silent and simply shoot the impostor if he still has a shot to take.