Diablo 3 to have always online DRM, cash shop, no mods at all, and kills puppies.

[Ramary]

Okay maybe not kill puppies. (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/01/diablo-iii-no-mods-online-only-cash-trades/)

1) The game requires a constant internet connection. It cannot be played offline.
2) Mods are “expressly prohibited.”
3) Items in the auction house are bought and sold for real-life money.

Anyone who wanted to buy this game, please just don't. It is the only way to actually send a message to them. You can send Activison or Blizzard all the hate mail in the world if you wanted to, but if you still buy the damn game like a sheep, it does NOTHING. In fact, it makes it even worst, since it sets a standard and more developers and publishers will realize they can get away with it.

[Yrcrazypa]

Well, I was already on the fence about this game, leaning towards not buying it. Thanks for making my decision easy Activision! I won't call them Blizzard, Blizzard died when they merged.

[Jagos]

This just in:

Pirating of Diablo 3 has gone up 20% due to no mods, and someone needing to create an offline mode.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Re the auction house- there is an ingame currency auction house as well. And you dn't have to use either of them. I've seen a lot of people having a shit about this but I don't understand why. It's important to note the auction house is between players so it's not like there will be things you can't get in other ways in there.
The other ones are valid complaints but what is wrong with havng an auction house.

[Azisien]

Quick, Internet, lose your minds about this rather predictable and not as horrifying as you think news!

Since Diablo 3 will probably be an important game in my life, I might as well weigh in on this news in detail though:

1) Always-On DRM is terrible and I struggled for a long time with loving StarCraft 2 but despising how they modelled Battle.net. However, that's just the thing. There's already a precedent set for this policy on Blizzard's online gaming service. How is anyone actually surprised by this? Really, how? The only reason could be that you were paying no attention beforehand.

However, I'll take the stance that I support with Always-On DRM: feel free to pirate the shit out of it to have an offline mode. I happen to know a very small handful of people trapped in the mid-20th century with no Internet access, and I support those people's privilege to play Diablo 3. For me, I intend to spend 95%+ of my time playing multiplayer, so I'll be needing that stable internet connection anwyay.

2) Uh, of course Blizzard isn't supporting bots or mods. First is obvious, second is semantics. Most cooperative/competitive online game developers don't support rampant cheating. Bots have completely, utterly, without possibility of repair ruined Diablo 2. My stance for my sequel would be militant too. As for mods, they're taking about player-side mods I think, not a modding community. You know, map hacks, illegal macros, whatever else people can come up with to make them innately better at the game without a measure of skill. I mean, they probably aren't supporting a game editor like they do for StarCraft 2, and that is a shame, but hardly horrifying news.

Dudes, check out this sweet new "aiming" mod I installed for Call of Duty. My KD ratio is SOOOOOO great now!

3) This is an interesting experiment, if anything. First of all, pretty sure it's been twisted by the media from "may buy with real currency" to "must buy with real currency." The Blizzard explanation sounds like people that WANT to pay real money to twink their characters CAN, but you could always just earn your gear like most people will. For me, I could see myself buying that last piece of Tal Rasha set, instead of running Baal 200 more times and PRAYING that 0.01% item drops.

Really, this is Blizzard accepting the inevitable. They are not really "letting us" buy gear with real money. The Diablo 3 community would set that up with or without Blizzard's consent. This seems similar to legalizing marijuana, instead of trying to combat its sale. It's gonna happen, the question is, how hard are the people in charge going to try and senselessly fight it? I'm curious to see how this pans out.

[Revising Ocelot]

Starcraft 2 used to require a constant connection too. I believe there's an offline mode, though, but then SC2 doesn't have items that can be botted for offline and then sold for cash.

Considering the amount of people that'll play and thus the huge supply, I doubt items would sell for very much. You'll get the occasional person buying your way to victory, but as far as I know that already happens with Diablo 2 and unofficial sites selling items. I guess Blizzard thinks it's easier to police a legitimised version.

I don't know about the lack of mods though, I've never played any Diablo games before. How did mods affect D2? If I were to speculate, I'd say that D3 will have an achievements system like SC2 and WoW and don't want people to mod their way to easy 'cheeves.

[Loyal]

I have to agree this isn't actually all that horrifying, given the circumstances. I mean, D2 singleplayer was terribly boring and nothing you couldn't replicate online anyway with a passworded game lobby (which IIRC gave you better drop rates anyway).

[Nikose Tyris]

One of the thing I liked the most was all the custom items and silly crap you could add into D2. Hell there were new maps and levels added in by fans.

I'm not going to by D3, but that's not for all the things they cut out- I just don't really care for the game style anymore.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

3) This is an interesting experiment, if anything. First of all, pretty sure it's been twisted by the media from "may buy with real currency" to "must buy with real currency." The Blizzard explanation sounds like people that WANT to pay real money to twink their characters CAN, but you could always just earn your gear like most people will. For me, I could see myself buying that last piece of Tal Rasha set, instead of running Baal 200 more times and PRAYING that 0.01% item drops.


There are actually two seperate auction houses, one for real money and one for ingame gold only. BOth of them are selling only things that are found int he game by players who then put them up for sale. You don't have to use either auction house, you can use all the random gold you have lying around to buy shit or if you just want to kill stuff without having to grind out the best loot you can spend real monies. It pretty solidly a non-issue.
And like even if they didn't support ongame selling of items it going to happen anyway, this just allows a much safer and more regulated trading service for everyone to use without getting screwed by dodgey traders.

These arguments are pretty much the same for legalising lots of drugs/prostitution etc- going to happen anyway, you'll just waste money and time fighting it and you won't succeed, so allow it, clean it up and regulate it.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

All I hear is boo hoo, except from Smarty.

1.) So yeah, I play mostly offline myself, I'd still doubt that there will be a complete lack of a possibility to play offline. That would suck, but shutting offline players out completely seems unlikely.

2.) The only point that is somewhat bugging me is #2, then again, I never cared much for mods.

3.) If anything It'll help me buy a new car. I mean, only idiots would BUY stuff for real money, but if they want to, why not profit off them a little? It was done illegally by third parties in D2 already, this seems to be the best way to fight that. Besides, there's also an auction house using ingame currency and that's something that was actually considered for D2 as well.

[Jagos]

2) Uh, of course Blizzard isn't supporting bots or mods. First is obvious, second is semantics. Most cooperative/competitive online game developers don't support rampant cheating. Bots have completely, utterly, without possibility of repair ruined Diablo 2. My stance for my sequel would be militant too. As for mods, they're taking about player-side mods I think, not a modding community. You know, map hacks, illegal macros, whatever else people can come up with to make them innately better at the game without a measure of skill. I mean, they probably aren't supporting a game editor like they do for StarCraft 2, and that is a shame, but hardly horrifying news.

The bots is understandable. The mods is reprehensible in a day and age where their best work is made by a fan. While not horrifying for you, it just seems to hit the Blizzard modding community in the nuts that they can't make their own maps or offshoot games, having to buy Starcraft II just for those tools.

3) This is an interesting experiment, if anything. First of all, pretty sure it's been twisted by the media from "may buy with real currency" to "must buy with real currency." The Blizzard explanation sounds like people that WANT to pay real money to twink their characters CAN, but you could always just earn your gear like most people will. For me, I could see myself buying that last piece of Tal Rasha set, instead of running Baal 200 more times and PRAYING that 0.01% item drops.

Really, this is Blizzard accepting the inevitable. They are not really "letting us" buy gear with real money. The Diablo 3 community would set that up with or without Blizzard's consent. This seems similar to legalizing marijuana, instead of trying to combat its sale. It's gonna happen, the question is, how hard are the people in charge going to try and senselessly fight it? I'm curious to see how this pans out.

It probably depends on the fee charged in house. I can see it not really being effective in stopping the heavy users from using other illicit sources. Maybe they have a reputation to uphold or something else. It's a neat concept, granted, but I dunno if Blizzard is really going to do well in this fashion.

[Azisien]

There are actually two seperate auction houses, one for real money and one for ingame gold only. BOth of them are selling only things that are found int he game by players who then put them up for sale. You don't have to use either auction house, you can use all the random gold you have lying around to buy shit or if you just want to kill stuff without having to grind out the best loot you can spend real monies. It pretty solidly a non-issue.
And like even if they didn't support ongame selling of items it going to happen anyway, this just allows a much safer and more regulated trading service for everyone to use without getting screwed by dodgey traders.

These arguments are pretty much the same for legalising lots of drugs/prostitution etc- going to happen anyway, you'll just waste money and time fighting it and you won't succeed, so allow it, clean it up and regulate it.

Yeah I knew this. I support the real money auction house being added. Who said I didn't? I even referenced legalization like you did!

The bots is understandable. The mods is reprehensible in a day and age where their best work is made by a fan. While not horrifying for you, it just seems to hit the Blizzard modding community in the nuts that they can't make their own maps or offshoot games, having to buy Starcraft II just for those tools.

But, they can make their own maps or offshoot games, it probably just won't be on Battle.net, or specifically supported by Blizzard on Battle.net. Diablo 2 had zero modding functionality built right into the game. It didn't come with a map editor, or anything else. It's always a shame to see any PC game lacking maximum modder potential, but that's all it is really, a shame.

[Ramary]

Ooohhhhhhhh boy I started a good thread.

Keep going, don't mind me, just keep going. I am waiting to see if someone else realizes what are the REAL bad things about all this.

[Loyal]

Y'know what's awesome, is when someone trying to make a point just comes out and actually makes their point.

[Bells]

Ooohhhhhhhh boy I started a good thread.

Keep going, don't mind me, just keep going. I am waiting to see if someone else realizes what are the REAL bad things about all this.

Do we get a cookie if we figure it out...?

The "only online" thing bothers me. I don't see it as necessary and i see no justification for it... it's not a effective DRM and it hurts consumers.

As for Mods... well, i suppose they want people playing Vanilla D3. Afterall, that makes it easier to sell DLC. If i recall correctly, hardly anybody played D2 (offline or online) without some mods, like expanding your item capacity, altering drop rates and such...

As fro the auction House, for one, it ties right in there with the No Mod stuff. Secondly, i'm pretty sure Blizzard will get a cut out of anything sold. So it's a virtual in-game ebay, pretty much.

I have no problem with people selling stuff for real cash in game for other players, but we'll have to see how the in game economy takes it. I guess we all are pretty aware of how those things can get screwed up over time...

[Nikose Tyris]

To be fair, Loyal, he's still kinda newish. He's not got the established pattern of that dickish answer yet. There's still time to save him from himself. D:

Ramary, what are the reasons this is bad [despite the one I named]?

[Ramary]

Bah fine.

RULE 1 OF ANY MICRO TRANSACTION: Never ever under any circumstances allow and support the buying of power.

This AH thing allows to players to buy AND sell power, which is a big no no. It almost always causes a gap between people of better real life wealth and the poor(and Irish) and it splits the community along lines of resentment and hate. Hell that stuff even happens with games that don't let you buy power. TF2 community went batshit over the store, even though weapons have always been a side grade sort of deal, not flat upgrades like gear in a RPG would be. It also throws a massive wrench into game balance. This would be bad even if the game was completely pve, but from what I understand is that there is also a PvP arena thing. I don't hate cash shops, the above mentioned TF2 is fine, and League of Legends does it better then any other game I seen, and these 2 are some of my favorite mutiplayer games right now. But part of the reason they are good is that nether of them sell PURE POWER.

As for the AH, I doubt the "intended" effect of stomping the black market will do anything. If you sell an item for real money you need...

1. You need a listing fee
2. You need to give Blizzard their cut

That is 2 fees right there, but then...

3. You CAN ether turn that money into credit for the other blizzard cash shops, or you can actually get real money BUT you have to pay ANOTHER fee to a "3rd party" that handles the money

So yeah, that is 3 fees if you actually want your money. So you could deal with the fees, or keep using the black market and get more money and less hassle. Plus the prices will be cheaper on the black market cause the sellers on the normal AH will jack up the price of Captain Jerkypants' Dread Grog Hat so they can make decent money while paying the fees. In the end, it is just ActiBlizz trying to make more money.

As for the other 2...

Always online DRM: This is bad, bad, bad, baaaadddddddddd. There is no reason to defend this, at all. It does not stop pirates, and it only makes it more of a pain in the ass for the actual consumer to play.

No Mods: This one is a little bit more defensible. Diablo 2 does have massive botting problems...but this is like trying to get rid of a rat by blowing up the house. It is also just an excuse to pump out DLC. Since DLC got popular, Publisher has been fighting with modders since they can pretty much give the same content for free. I mean 5 years ago, charging 15 dollars for 5 maps was complete and utter madness since you could get user made maps for free. Now it is common place, because it is pretty easy to do compared to other tasks in gamedev and for the player, not buying the map pack means you "do not have the full experience" and you are pretty much kicked out of games if you don't have the packs. Without mods, you have no other options but take that 15 dollar 5 map pack.

Something else I did not mention though, there are no skill points at all. There are no player made builds at all eather. It is all auto leveling. With only 5 classes.

[Amake]

Aaalmost there (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/4/25/).

Also, about the "no mods" thing, I'm pretty sure when they say mods they mean mods and not hacks. Something like Median (http://modsbylaz.hugelaser.com/) would a) require an offline mode and b) maybe make people pick up the game ten years from now. Neither of which flows well with Actiblizzion's vision of maximized short term profits.

[Kim]

With no offline mode, I have no interest in Diablo 3. I hear Torchlight 2 has offline. I'll just play Torchlight 2.

[Jagos]

Something else I did not mention though, there are no skill points at all. There are no player made builds at all eather. It is all auto leveling. With only 5 classes.

Torchlight 2, here I come.

Non, you damn ninja!

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Bah fine.

RULE 1 OF ANY MICRO TRANSACTION: Never ever under any circumstances allow and support the buying of power.

This AH thing allows to players to buy AND sell power, which is a big no no. It almost always causes a gap between people of better real life wealth and the poor(and Irish) and it splits the community along lines of resentment and hate. Hell that stuff even happens with games that don't let you buy power. TF2 community went batshit over the store, even though weapons have always been a side grade sort of deal, not flat upgrades like gear in a RPG would be. It also throws a massive wrench into game balance. This would be bad even if the game was completely pve, but from what I understand is that there is also a PvP arena thing. I don't hate cash shops, the above mentioned TF2 is fine, and League of Legends does it better then any other game I seen, and these 2 are some of my favorite mutiplayer games right now. But part of the reason they are good is that nether of them sell PURE POWER.

As for the AH, I doubt the "intended" effect of stomping the black market will do anything. If you sell an item for real money you need...

1. You need a listing fee
2. You need to give Blizzard their cut

That is 2 fees right there, but then...

3. You CAN ether turn that money into credit for the other blizzard cash shops, or you can actually get real money BUT you have to pay ANOTHER fee to a "3rd party" that handles the money

So yeah, that is 3 fees if you actually want your money. So you could deal with the fees, or keep using the black market and get more money and less hassle. Plus the prices will be cheaper on the black market cause the sellers on the normal AH will jack up the price of Captain Jerkypants' Dread Grog Hat so they can make decent money while paying the fees. In the end, it is just ActiBlizz trying to make more money.

As for the other 2...

Always online DRM: This is bad, bad, bad, baaaadddddddddd. There is no reason to defend this, at all. It does not stop pirates, and it only makes it more of a pain in the ass for the actual consumer to play.

No Mods: This one is a little bit more defensible. Diablo 2 does have massive botting problems...but this is like trying to get rid of a rat by blowing up the house. It is also just an excuse to pump out DLC. Since DLC got popular, Publisher has been fighting with modders since they can pretty much give the same content for free. I mean 5 years ago, charging 15 dollars for 5 maps was complete and utter madness since you could get user made maps for free. Now it is common place, because it is pretty easy to do compared to other tasks in gamedev and for the player, not buying the map pack means you "do not have the full experience" and you are pretty much kicked out of games if you don't have the packs. Without mods, you have no other options but take that 15 dollar 5 map pack.

Something else I did not mention though, there are no skill points at all. There are no player made builds at all eather. It is all auto leveling. With only 5 classes.


Firstly no selling of power refers to selling things which you can't get in game and are generally better than the things you can get in game.
The fairness argument makes no sense. Is it fair that this guy doesn't need to work to support himself and can play for 20 hours a day ensuring the best drops. It just changing the resource from time to money. And it's not like you can stop it.
And people want to play the games their own way. If they want to spend money to get items rather than spend time grinding for them why shouldn't they? That is what there idea of fun is, they is how they want to play their game. Why shouldn't they?

As for the auction house will be surpassed- eh maybe. Firstly blizzard only reallygets 1 fee not 3- the first two are in character fees which is pretty worthless to them. Sure you have to pay 3 effective fees but as long as they are low enough why wouldn't you use the much more secure auction house.
Think aobut the real world. Does everybody buy their cellphones from cheap as market traders or do people buy them from cellphone stores for the added security in the sale. Why doesn't everybody buy everything from the black market?

[Ramary]

Firstly no selling of power refers to selling things which you can't get in game and are generally better than the things you can get in game.

Nooooooo, it refers to the selling of power. See how there is a period there? It means no selling of power at all. PERIOD.

Your comments on the black market thing though is a good point, but it still gives the idea that the dreaded pay2win scenario is acceptable if this game sells.

[Arcanum]

I don't really get what the big deal is here. Everything in the auction house are items that have dropped, i.e. they are available to anyone in the game who is willing to spend the time farming for them. Only now you can spend money to buy that item off another player. Alternatively you can go to the regular auction house and get that same item for in-game gold if it so pleases you. That's three ways to get the same item that any player can get.

Also, a key point that seems to have been left out (link (http://kotaku.com/5825580/blizzard-will-let-you-sell-your-diablo-iii-loot-for-real-money)):

[Blizzard] plans to offer an unspecified amount of free listings to Diablo III players who might want to experiment with selling their game loot.

In other words you will be able to try out the money auction house without paying the listing fee, and either make a few bucks or funnel the money you get from the sale into buying something that you want from the auction house.

Or who knows, maybe the truly dedicated players will make enough money on the D3 auction house to pay for their WoW subscription.

Also, from the same article:

Those playing in the game's still-unspecified "Hardcore" difficulty, which has in the past meant player deaths are permanent, are restricted from using the Auction House.

So no paying real money to keep your hardcore character alive, if anyone cares about that.

Nooooooo, it refers to the selling of power. See how there is a period there? It means no selling of power at all. PERIOD.

Your comments on the black market thing though is a good point, but it still gives the idea that the dreaded pay2win scenario is acceptable if this game sells.

Except the "power" that is being sold is obtainable both through regular play or the regular auction house. It just makes an item's acquisition easier for those who don't have time to play the game enough to farm the item regularly, or farm the gold/items needed to buy it in an auction house or trade for it.

And really? Pay to win? Unless you plan on playing PvP for the vast majority of your Diablo 3 experience, how will someone buying items affect you at all?

[Malek]

Technically, Blizzard aren't selling power though, it's all sold by players. Unless they made items impossible to trade, power would be sold one way or another, and if they made items impossible to trade, what would even be the point of having items?

[Bells]

Nooooooo, it refers to the selling of power. See how there is a period there? It means no selling of power at all. PERIOD.

You do realize that by this logic, there would be no shops ingame at all... i mean, No selling of power at all, excludes in game currency and any form of player trade... as better gear and items ARE power in a -game-...

What Smarty is pointing out is that Selling Power means breaking balance in a situation where 2 Players with similar skills, equivalent characters and Equivalent gears meet but one of them can beat the other because he has a Item he bought with zero effort with real cash, while the other has no access or desire to pay more for a game he already bought just to be on the same level as others...

[Ramary]

Okay, yeah, fine. It is not the textbook definition of selling power.

Honestly if this was localize to just this game, I would be okay, but I know how this industry works. In all honestly I am more peeved at issues 1 and 2.

[Azisien]

Issues 1 and 2 both had precedents allowing us to predict them easily though, I don't see why there's any shock at all about it.

I do hope Blizzard does what they did with SC2 and implement offline mode though. At launch I was pretty peeved, in principle anyway, that I could not unplug my router and keep playing the game I just bought.

Still looking forward to this lots though. I'm opposite some of the sentiment here, I avoided Torchlight because of no online play. The possibility of me actually making real money from Diablo 3 is damn intriguing.

[Ramary]

I am more peeved at issues 1 and 2 BECAUSE they are predictable and becoming commonplace, and they really should not be.

[Azisien]

I dunno, I think you're overreacting just a little. Battle.net games are looking to have heavy DRM [though some of it was redacted when SC2 was patched to be slightly friendlier], and Ubisoft games have heavy DRM. That's about it, unless we want to go as far back as Spore, or C&C4 (and who gives a shit there). The vast majority of games I've bought in the past 3 years don't have Always-On DRM.

And I don't think there's too much less modding in games then there used to be. Engines have become more complex in a lot of places, so its difficult and expensive to produce modding tools. Diablo 2 never had modding tools, Diablo 3 won't. StarCraft and BW had modding tools, and StarCraft 2 has modding tools.

[Ramary]

I AM NOT OVERREACTING!

AND SOYLENT GREEN IS MADE OF PEEEEOOPLLLLLLEEE!!!!!

Okay I am a tad, I am basically speculating like all hell, I see a future of crappy restrictive DRM everywhere, and for some reason every developer needs to have their own steam-like system for their games (Don't get me started on Origin and the can of worms that opens).

And I could be in a bad mood cause the next game on my backlog is Warrior Within and that is basically all angst, all the time. It might be rubbing off on me.

[rpgdemon]

I think the "Let players sell things legally for money" is a great move. If I pick up D3, I'll be sure to sell stuff.

I think that the online all the time is really annoying, but makes sense, if your characters are constant between server and local games. Otherwise, you could disconnect, hack things into your inventory, then reconnect and make money/cause craziness. If they had an offline mode that had no relevance to online, that would be ideal.

I think that the no modding is also related to the persistence of characters, but if they put in an offline mode, which you could play LAN, and had no relevance to online, they could put modding back into that.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

In other words: They could handle it like Diablo II

Seems like they don't want to, though.

[Arcanum]

play LAN

Hahahahahaahahahahahaahahahaahahaha.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Oh yeah, that's what Starcraft II doesn't have despite the nature of the game.

[Jagos]

I think the "Let players sell things legally for money" is a great move. If I pick up D3, I'll be sure to sell stuff.

I think that the online all the time is really annoying, but makes sense, if your characters are constant between server and local games. Otherwise, you could disconnect, hack things into your inventory, then reconnect and make money/cause craziness. If they had an offline mode that had no relevance to online, that would be ideal.

I think that the no modding is also related to the persistence of characters, but if they put in an offline mode, which you could play LAN, and had no relevance to online, they could put modding back into that.


You don't remember the hubbub about the offline mode with SC2 do you?

[Krylo]

Wasn't interested in Diablo 3 until this.

Now I find that I can sell things to other players for money.

Guys, this is it. The dream is here.

I can now get a job playing Videogames.

That's, you know, not in a chinese sweatshop farming WoW gold.

[Ramary]

Wasn't interested in Diablo 3 until this.

Now I find that I can sell things to other players for money.

Guys, this is it. The dream is here.

I can now get a job playing Videogames.

That's, you know, not in a chinese sweatshop farming WoW gold.


Okay yeah no. I am almost certain to make a living profit off this you will need to have the work ideals of a Chinese sweatshop.

Or you get that one rare drop everyone wants....a lot.

[Jagos]

... That was the joke...

[synkr0nized]

Ramary: joining "fourms" to overreact since July, 2011


;)



If some kid wants to send me money for crap in a game, that's terrific. Otherwise this looks like SC 2 again. And at least the mapping community there has made some fairly interesting games (actually, so has Blizzard).

[Ramary]

I could all say you are all under reacting.

I could make references to Nazi Germany but that is hardly in good taste.

[Jagos]

Please, no Godwin here. The thread is already going downhill with the demons, devils, and rainbows.

[Ramary]

I don't like the way them rainbows are looking at me, I think they are trying to steal my modding communities.

[Fifthfiend]

Issues 1 and 2 both had precedents allowing us to predict them easily though, I don't see why there's any shock at all about it.

I dunno, I think you're overreacting just a little. Battle.net games are looking to have heavy DRM [though some of it was redacted when SC2 was patched to be slightly friendlier], and Ubisoft games have heavy DRM. That's about it, unless we want to go as far back as Spore, or C&C4 (and who gives a shit there). The vast majority of games I've bought in the past 3 years don't have Always-On DRM.

I think you can tell him he's a big overreacting baby cryface baby who cries because of how always-on DRM was obviously obviously the thing that was going to happen because of how it was obvious and only a cryfaced baby would think that it wasn't, OR tell him that he's that because nobody anywhere has always-on DRM and only babyfaced cryfaces think it matters, but you can't really argue both.

[Bells]

Hey guys

http://carolinareyes.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/ss_1.jpg

So... yeah...


Ok, let's try this...

If in normal Online games with Auction house, an item that's worth about 1k in-game currency is usually sold by 5k or 25k because "it's not very very common"... what you guys think might happen to D3 with real cash economy working in the game?

Is that sword really worth $5? Is that rare really worth $50?

[Julford Hajime]

Since when have in-game prices ever been a good pricing point since, well, ever?

Also I'm pretty sure you aren't able to sell stuff to the in-game merchants for real cash. If you can though, I'd totally go Chinese sweatshop over this game.

[Azisien]

I think you can tell him he's a big overreacting baby cryface baby who cries because of how always-on DRM was obviously obviously the thing that was going to happen because of how it was obvious and only a cryfaced baby would think that it wasn't, OR tell him that he's that because nobody anywhere has always-on DRM and only babyfaced cryfaces think it matters, but you can't really argue both.

Sure I can.

http://files.sharenator.com/fuck_yea_When_memes_collide_Interwebs_Internets_Co mpetition_s508x395_88087_580_RE_memebase_10-s508x395-153804-580.png

[rpgdemon]

Please, no Godwin here. The thread is already going downhill with the demons, devils, and rainbows.

Jerk.

[EVILNess]

Well, it kinda sucks that we can't have singleplayer or LAN play in any of Blizzards new stuff, but thems the breaks I guess.

I kinda figured that the way they did D2 was the best option. It's not like I can mess with anyone with my horribly cheated single player character, because I had to make a legit character to play over the internet.

If there was a problem on Battle.net with hacks then that screams to me as a problem with Battle.net, not a problem with what I can do in single player by myself where it doesn't affect anyone.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

Posts Straight from the blue horse's mouth, complete with pictures to keep attention engaged for the attention deficient! (http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2397-Diablo-3-Auction-House-Announced-Spend-and-Earn-Real-Life-Money!)

I was going to put some effort into highlighting some major bullet points, but y'know what? That's just counterproductive to pitchfork 'n torch rabble-rousing business.

[Ramary]

From that FAQ you posted, and that I just took note of...

Can we buy gold from the currency-based auction house?
Players will be able to buy and sell gold through the currency-based auction house at whatever the current market price is, as established by the player community.

That just makes this feel even all the more wrong. How long has Blizzard been fighting gold sellers in WOW, constantly attacking them, but now that they have a cut it is all hunky dory?

Shenanigans I say!

[phil_]

I've been trying to figure out how to formulate this thought in an interesting way, but I can't, so I'm just gonna call this now and get it over with.

People are going to figure out a way to play offline. This will happen. It is a given, even if money weren't involved. People will figure out how to dupe and modify items, though this would take a while if money weren't involved. But, since money is involved, within a month there will be tools to create valuable items so they can be sold for money.

You may be expecting me to go into how this is unfair or something concerning the game and its well-being. I'm not.

Where I'm going with this is the likely but not inevitable event where people buy duped widgets, Blizzard notices that they did, and Blizzard deletes the items without refunding those who bought them. Then there'll be a three-day internet shitstorm about Blizzard taking peoples' money and stuff, then we'll all forget about it.

I just wanted to call it, is all.

[rpgdemon]

The way I see it, it's not that they have a cut and it's okay, it's that there's nothing they can do to stop it. Go on WoW, there is CONSTANT spam for gold selling in trade chat.

So, they might as well make it safer, and get a cut.

[Fifthfiend]

If you can't beat 'em, join em'!

By "'em" I mean sweatshop owners. Not the laborers, you can totally beat them. Which the sweatshop owners will do, if they're not finding enough salable rare drops in Diablo III!

[Yrcrazypa]

The problem for me is this, if I buy Diablo 3, it will be a game I will be playing on my laptop mostly, and typically if I'm using my laptop it's because I'm somewhere where I won't be connected to the internet. This presents a problem.

[Arcanum]

Another thing that hasn't really been mentioned: While the auction houses in WoW and other games are restricted to the players on that server, Diablo 3's auction house is accessible to everyone in your region. In other words there will be a lot more people with access to the auction house, thus making it harder for people to manipulate the price of certain items. And if people end up finding a way to hack the game and dupe items, that will only flood the auction house and drop prices even more.

This may just be me being naively optimistic, but I don't see super high cash prices being a big deal.

As for buying gold for cash through the auction house, I still don't see a problem with it. Last I checked EVE Online has PLEX that can be bought with real world money and sold for in-game money and it's doing just fine. And that's a full blown MMO and not just a Co-op Dungeon Crawler RPG.


What I really don't understand is why Blizz is having no offline mode. I'm sure it's not too hard to make it so offline characters are strictly offline, especially considering that's exactly what Diablo 2 had.

[Jagos]

The problem for me is this, if I buy Diablo 3, it will be a game I will be playing on my laptop mostly, and typically if I'm using my laptop it's because I'm somewhere where I won't be connected to the internet. This presents a problem.

Yar, me boyo! We be high tidin' all over da place ta be farin through the seas! Da booty we be lookin far be plentiful and bootious, and dar be plenty of it as soon as dis game is done!

Now walk da plank or get yer britches and set sail!

[Fifthfiend]

What I especially don't get about always-on DRM is why Starcraft of all games has always-on DRM because like the only DRM that Starcraft should ever need is that ladder system that everyone who plays Starcraft is nuts about.

Like it would pretty much go "so my ladder ranking is Diamond Three Nucleus what's your ladder ranking" "Oh well I don't have a ladder ranking because I p-" "Because you're a BITCH? Yeah I'm pretty sure it's because you're a BITCH, chump, sucka, man fuck this loser let's all go play some RANKED STARCRAFT the way people who aren't CHUMPS play Starcraft."

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

if people end up finding a way to hack the game and dupe items, that will only flood the auction house and drop prices even more.


Did anyone read the link I posted? I mean read, analyze, and not have the-world-is-ending rabble-reaction? Jiminy Christmas eating shit on a shingle on saturday.

Blizzard
Please note that we plan to waive the listing portion of the fee for a limited number of transactions per account. In other words, for these transactions, the seller will only pay a transaction fee if the item is successfully sold, and that fee will not include the listing charge. We’ll have further details on this as well at a later date.


Even with relatively sparse details it isn't too hard to figure out what Blizz was alluding to with that.
The is incentive to avoid auction flooding by reducing gains after a certain point. Maintaining a modest amount will be a balancing act of selling the best items in the waived range and others that are good-but-not-as-good-as-waived-good. After X waived auctions the seller's/lister's fee is enacted. Sell more in bulk? Your overall earning is reduced proportionally.

Considering legal tender is being brought on the table blizz will pretty much be forced to keep an oversized veiny eye on the AH trends and people abusing or attempting to abuse it. Abusers will likely be suspended or culled entirely from the game or auction service.

I'd imagine blizz will have a multitude of safeguards to keep market prices from fluctuating outrageously out of control. Quarterly, or even more often, flushing of the entire season's database. Hell, if it were up me the items culled would be returned and have an auction house cooldown (few weeks, half the season maybe?) to prevent a sudden influx of previously inflated items.

And yes, as someone alluded to: By giving players the ability to set conversion rates of gold->money/money-gold it cuts out the honeypot gold sellers that would fuck over players left and right and do excessive damages to bank accounts and credit scores.

BAWWWWbunny all ye naysayers, I'm all for this shit.

[edit] as for the DRM fiasco, blizz'll rescind that. There's already enough of a public outcry against it. Blizz has shown that they can be convinced to not go a certain route, i.e. the names thing with battle.net accounts for WoW and starcraft 2' drm, to name a couple.

[Ramary]

Got a new Blizzard interview about it today.

Apparntly Gold farming and playing the actual game is now the same thing. (http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/08/02/blizzard-on-diablo-3-gold-farmers-and-players-really-doing-the-same-activity/)

[A Zarkin' Frood]

“Theoretically that’s true, but I mean there’s really nothing… what’s the difference between a player that plays the game a lot and a gold farmer? I mean they’re really doing the same activity.”Ummmm, It sounds stupid yeah, but from my experiences with Diablo II that's 100% true. There's a difference between playing the game a lot and actually playing the game.

I actually played the game, those who played a lot skipped the game to get right to the grinding and farming "which is baaaaaaaaad". Because apparently that's fun, I dunno.

[IHateMakingNames]

I actually played the game, those who played a lot skipped the game to get right to the grinding and farming "which is baaaaaaaaad". Because apparently that's fun, I dunno.
People didn't skip the game? As far as I was aware everyone went for the rush, because Acts 2 and 3 sucked, and by Act 5 you just want to get to the next difficulty.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

If that's how you want to play the game then you shouuld be able to do that.

[Arcanum]

Did anyone read the link I posted? I mean read, analyze, and not have the-world-is-ending rabble-reaction? Jiminy Christmas eating shit on a shingle on saturday.

Blizzard


Even with relatively sparse details it isn't too hard to figure out what Blizz was alluding to with that.
The is incentive to avoid auction flooding by reducing gains after a certain point. Maintaining a modest amount will be a balancing act of selling the best items in the waived range and others that are good-but-not-as-good-as-waived-good. After X waived auctions the seller's/lister's fee is enacted. Sell more in bulk? Your overall earning is reduced proportionally.

Considering legal tender is being brought on the table blizz will pretty much be forced to keep an oversized veiny eye on the AH trends and people abusing or attempting to abuse it. Abusers will likely be suspended or culled entirely from the game or auction service.

I'd imagine blizz will have a multitude of safeguards to keep market prices from fluctuating outrageously out of control. Quarterly, or even more often, flushing of the entire season's database. Hell, if it were up me the items culled would be returned and have an auction house cooldown (few weeks, half the season maybe?) to prevent a sudden influx of previously inflated items.

And yes, as someone alluded to: By giving players the ability to set conversion rates of gold->money/money-gold it cuts out the honeypot gold sellers that would fuck over players left and right and do excessive damages to bank accounts and credit scores.

BAWWWWbunny all ye naysayers, I'm all for this shit.

[edit] as for the DRM fiasco, blizz'll rescind that. There's already enough of a public outcry against it. Blizz has shown that they can be convinced to not go a certain route, i.e. the names thing with battle.net accounts for WoW and starcraft 2' drm, to name a couple.

I'm not talking about individuals flooding the Auction House and dropping prices. I'm talking about the masses. There's an entire region of players that can put things up for sale, instead of a single WoW server with only ~5000 players (for example). Essentially what I'm saying is that I don't see super high prices being a problem, since with the sheer volume of players there is bound to be plenty of competition.

As for the waived listing fee; from what I've read Blizzard wants to use it to get people interested in the system, though yes I'm sure smart people will use it to increase their profit on valuable items. My guess (and this is pure speculation) is that players who actively use the auction house will get less or no "free" auction listings, since they don't need the incentive of free listings to try out the auction house. That's the outcome I see if Blizz wants to keep the free listings as an incentive, instead of as a tool to increase personal profit. But like I said, pure speculation.

[PhoenixFlame]

If working a sweatshop to sell online items for minimum wage and actually playing the game are the same thing, blizzard, WHY THE HELL DO YOU DESIGN GAMES THAT WAY?! :eek:

I can't believe they believe this. Do they seriously believe that? Did I just read that? I mean, I've seen it, and I can believe it, but this is intentional now? :ohdear:

Don't we play games to have fun? Or am I just old fashioned? :(

[Jagos]

If working a sweatshop to sell online items for minimum wage and actually playing the game are the same thing, blizzard, WHY THE HELL DO YOU DESIGN GAMES THAT WAY?! :eek:

I can't believe they believe this. Do they seriously believe that? Did I just read that? I mean, I've seen it, and I can believe it, but this is intentional now? :ohdear:

Don't we play games to have fun? Or am I just old fashioned? :(

Well, people can make money off games and give up boring day jobs...

[A Zarkin' Frood]

People didn't skip the game? As far as I was aware everyone went for the rush, because Acts 2 and 3 sucked, and by Act 5 you just want to get to the next difficulty.

I enjoyed those acts. The only act that sucked in my book was 4. And yeah, I pretty much only played that way, a pity it was hard to find a group to do that.

[Fifthfiend]

People didn't skip the game? As far as I was aware everyone went for the rush, because Acts 2 and 3 sucked, and by Act 5 you just want to get to the next difficulty.

What you're insane act 2/3 owned.

That was the fucking desert level and the jungle level, those fucking owned.

[Ryong]

Man, I hated some of Act 2 and 3, but they weren't bad.

[Bells]

Well, it is a lot worst on later difficulties where the enemies get a ton of immunities and give a ton of status effects, ACT3 on the highest difficulty was quite sadistic

[Ramary]

Interesting derail.

Let me derail it even further. Based on what you know, IGNORING THE 3-HEADED BEAST, would you still buy Diablo 3? Personally even despite the AH thing, it seems the devs WANT it to be a grind fest now so I have no interest in it now.

Also they are dumbing it down like hell.

[rpgdemon]

Are they, though?

I mean, you were all, "NO MORE TALENTS JUST ONE BUILD", but from what I've seen, you have a ton of options because each spell that you learn can be runed to be five different spells, and you're only allowed three passive and six active spells at any one time.

Or something like that. Seems like a lot of variety.

[Ryong]

Weirdly enough, Diablo 3 is reminding me more of Torchlight than the rest of the Diablo series. I've no idea why.

Good thing I wasn't looking forward to this, now I have to hope Grim Dawn doesn't end up sucking, somehow.

[IHateMakingNames]

Of course it's going to be a grind fest. That's what D2 was, and what every dungeon crawler is.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

ACT3 on the highest difficulty was quite awesome
FTFY

Whether I buy it or not doesn't depend on the auction house, because I don't consider that a bad idea, it doesn't depend on mod support because I don't care very much for that, there WILL be mods, but good ones will only pop up after years. And while always online DRM sucks, it's not something that will make me not buy the game.

So, I might get it. Maybe.

[Jagos]

No, there's no reason everyone should hate online only... (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.304833-Blizzard-Surprised-by-Reaction-to-Online-Only-Diablo-3)

It's that everyone has these great connections with the monopolistic power that's called AT&T and Comcast. They give you unlimited broadband with no drops or disconnections because oh, hey, their the nicest people in the world.

So why should Blizzard be surprised that their fans are pissed at them?

[Osterbaum]

If they are truly surprised then it is clear they are pretty detached from the reality of the average gamer. They aren't really surprised though I'd wager. They're just playing the part of the innocent developer/publisher that just wants what's best for everyone!

[IHateMakingNames]

If they are truly surprised then it is clear they are pretty detached from the reality of the average gamer.
I'm pretty sure, by a large majority, the average Diablo 3 player will be playing online.

[Magus]

Re the auction house- there is an ingame currency auction house as well. And you dn't have to use either of them. I've seen a lot of people having a shit about this but I don't understand why. It's important to note the auction house is between players so it's not like there will be things you can't get in other ways in there.
The other ones are valid complaints but what is wrong with havng an auction house.

Because Blizzard threw a shit-fit over people "buying" top-level World of Warcraft accounts and equipment ("goldfarming"). Now everybody can just buy the dreaded Sword of Nagerroth off of goldfarmers completely legally.
With WoW Blizzard hypocritically threw a fit (because they weren't making any money off of it.) Also as far as gameplay goes it makes it so you can just buy your way to the top.

Personally I'm not into MMOs so maybe it works different from what I'm saying.

EDIT: BTW as somebody pretty late to the Diablo series (I played Diablo "for real" about two years ago, despite having played maybe five minutes in the past on other people's computers) I have to say that Diablo II basically ruined everything I enjoyed in Diablo.

What Blizzard should be focusing on is Blackthorne 2 and The Lost Vikings III.

[Ramary]

The Lost vikings 3?

HELL. FUCKING. YES.
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j426/Ramary/cookiejoy.gif

Or, you could play Trine. Puzzle/platformer with 3 characters. Single player only sadly.

[Magus]

Didn't they add that to the new Humble Indie Bundle along with the games originally in it? I might take you up on your offer, dawg.

My only problem is my current computer is so crappy I don't think it would even play Trine, might be why I didn't buy it last time...on the other hand I've been saving up a lot of these games for the future when I get a new one.

EDIT: Curses I guess FrozenByte bundle was different. Still probably a good buy at full price...

[Ramary]

It is a good buy at full price.

Not sure what "full price" is right now though.

EDIT: $20

Still a better game then the 60 dollar CAWODOOTYs that come out every year.

[akaSM]

Trine has a 2 player local co-op mode IIRC.

[Jagos]

People, Torchlight 2. Just sayin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torchlight_II)

I just don't want to have to deal with all the BS that is Blizzard. It's sad to say, but they've really gone out of their way to make their games a pain in the ass to play.

The heavy DRM on SC2 pushed me away. The fact that I can't play with LAN? Another point against it. Then when I heard about how I can't cheat except how BLIZZARD wants me to cheat I was like "Yep, done with you"

All this tells me is Blizzard can't handle competition.

[Ramary]

The fact that SC2 not having LAN, which hurt e-sports pretty bad, bugged me the most about it.

And I don't think Blizz does like competition, you can only get digital copies of their games from them, and it is always over expensive. I mean SC2 is STILL 60 bucks I think.

[Jagos]

Bwuh?

what do you mean by digital copies? From their website?

[Ramary]

Digital copies, ie digital distribution. I prefer that over retail.

[Azisien]

Well, retail SC2 is also still $60, and the retailer is taking a hit if they aren't hovering near that price point.

[Jagos]

Well, retail SC2 is also still $60, and the retailer is taking a hit if they aren't hovering near that price point.

How so?

[Nikose Tyris]

Because if you charge less then the cost to obtain the game themselves, you lose money, and if you charge more, then people will buy it elsewhere.

[Jagos]

I totally forgot about MSRP (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128164)...

I wonder how long until the discounts start?

[Ramary]

Don't know. But they just made parts of it free2play. So if they do start discounting it would be soon to get more players from the starter edition.

[Jagos]

In other news, id Software shows how stupid they are by thinking Blizzard is onto something with online DRM (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-10-id-software-on-always-on-internet-debate)

[Ramary]

See this is what I said in my first post. Everyone is gonna follow suit.

But yes id is a bunch of morons still anyway, pretty much since Doom 3 tried to be System Shock.