Haggar: Better than Zangief, or WAY better than Zangief?

[BitVyper]

Lets look at the facts here:

Zangief:

- Communist
- Basically a bruiser
- Has worked for terrorists
- Only ever fights one guy at a time
- Claims to have wrestled bears. Probably just drunk.
- Kind of a shitty dancer

Haggar:

- Believes in freedom
- Has a career
- Refuses bribes and blackmail attempts
- Is a political figure but still has integrity
- Runs a small business in his retirement
- Wears pants
- Became mayor of a city on the verge of collapse and ended the gang rule almost single-handedly
- Photographic evidence proves he has piledrived a shark
- Can fight for more than 90 seconds.

[Jagos]

Welcome, friends. I hope you're well,
I bid you join me for a spell,
Sit by, pipe down and be regaled,
With our beloved city's tale.

I'll tell you through my weak narration,
Of how it met with its salvation,
From Mad Gear's grip its neck was freed,
By one man's most extraordinary deeds... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce9J-J30B3o)

[Professor Smarmiarty]

http://capcom.wikia.com/wiki/Zangief
Zangief is 214 cm 158kg

http://capcom.wikia.com/wiki/Mike_Haggar
Haggar is 202 121 kg.

They have nearly exactly the same fighting stye so the keydifference is height and strength which give Zangief a devastating advantage.

Also Zangief is 13 years younger than Haggar and doesn't waste his time being mayor instead he trains constantly.

Also he's sometime a robot..

[BitVyper]

Oh look, Smarty sides with the commie. Are you surprised? I'm not surprised.

The size difference is just further evidence that Haggar is better. Zangief is naturally huge, and oh look, all he does in life is abuse that. You know what they call that? a BULLY. Sure, Haggar COULD have continued his sports career, but he has an actual brain, and the personal drive to use it. And not just use it, but use it for the betterment of his fellow man. To drive back the night, so that we don't have to live in fear of monsters in the dark. You know what they call THAT? A HERO.

[Aerozord]

Lets look at the facts here:

Zangief:

- Communist
- Basically a bruiser
- Has worked for terrorists
- Only ever fights one guy at a time
- Claims to have wrestled bears. Probably just drunk.
- Kind of a shitty dancer


did you actually try to pass "probably drunk" as a drawback?

[Revising Ocelot]

Depends on the character. For someone like the Demoman, being drunk is definitely an advantage. Most other people... not so much.

[BitVyper]

did you actually try to pass "probably drunk" as a drawback?

I'm just saying that bear story only seems to come out after he's downed quite a bit of vodka.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Oh look, Smarty sides with the commie. Are you surprised? I'm not surprised.

The size difference is just further evidence that Haggar is better. Zangief is naturally huge, and oh look, all he does in life is abuse that. You know what they call that? a BULLY. Sure, Haggar COULD have continued his sports career, but he has an actual brain, and the personal drive to use it. And not just use it, but use it for the betterment of his fellow man. To drive back the night, so that we don't have to live in fear of monsters in the dark. You know what they call THAT? A HERO.

Because he's too weak to last in the world of fighting. He had to retire and push papers, the only thing his weak muscles can hande.

[BitVyper]

Zangief only fights people a lot smaller than him, and he still only does a little bit more damage. Haggar fights guys who are way bigger than him and kicks their asses. Pound for pound, Haggar is clearly the stronger guy. It also proves that Haggar makes better use of his weight, which makes sense, since Zangief is, as I've indicated, just a dumbass bruiser who can't do anything but depend on his muscle.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

It's not Zangiefs fault that he's bigger than everyone else. Pound for pound is meaningless- pound for pound bruce lee could out grapple wrestle Zangief. What we are talking about is actuality and in that case Zangief is clearly victorious. Both fighters use a grappling style where the stronger fighter will be victorious.

Your claim that Haggar is stronger is ridicuous. Haggar fights random street thugs. Zangief fights the 10 strongest dudes in the world. Of course Haggar is going to dominate them. Zangief would dominate them too. But Zangief also throws around the world's greatest fighters. His sheer weight increase wil give him the strength advantage.

And shit, Zangief dominates bears. I'd ike to see Haggar do that.

[Jagos]

Shark > Bear

[Locke cole]

http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/193335-header.jpg

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Shark > Bear

In bizarrouniverse? It's far easier to outwrestle a shark than a bear... i know somebody who has wrestled a shark- Zangief would kick the shit out of him.

[Locke cole]

If both creatures are on land, maybe.

[POS Industries]

I love Zangief. In fact, I even bought the Zangief fightpad, because fuck yeah 'Gief. But, if I am to look at the evidence objectively, I can't help but admit that it does not come up in his favor. As powerful as he is, one can't help but notice his absence in any version of Street Fighter III, games featuring Mad Gear bruiser Hugo Andore from the Final Fight series, a man defeated soundly by Haggar on multiple occasions.

It is also hinted that Zangief was canonically defeated in SFII by either Ryu or Ken, noting in SFIV that "Dragon Punches suck" as part of the reasoning for his loss. Hugo, however, was noted as being able to take the full brunt of Ryu's Shoryuken in SFIII without even being knocked down.

Thus, if Hugo has been established as being so much more powerful than Zangief to the point where the Red Cyclone has never even come forward to challenge him while Haggar has had no problem dealing with him in any of their encounters, it strongly suggests that Haggar does indeed have the advantage over Zangief.

EDIT: HOWEVER, I just now learned that Zangief is appearing with Hugo in Street FighterxTekken, so perhaps there's still hope for him yet!

[Magus]

I voted for Jesse Ventura Mike Haggar six times! He's the best damn mayor this city's ever had! Tough on crime! Loves his daughter! Made suspenders fashionable again!

What has Zangief done for the people of Metro City? Nothing! Not a goddamn thing! Where was he when the Mad Gear gang attacked? Probably taking drugs or selling sex slaves or committing war crimes against some Chechens, like Russians are wont to do!

[Locke cole]

And was Zangief ever a former The Guy? I don't think so.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I love Zangief. In fact, I even bought the Zangief fightpad, because fuck yeah 'Gief. But, if I am to look at the evidence objectively, I can't help but admit that it does not come up in his favor. As powerful as he is, one can't help but notice his absence in any version of Street Fighter III, games featuring Mad Gear bruiser Hugo Andore from the Final Fight series, a man defeated soundly by Haggar on multiple occasions.

It is also hinted that Zangief was canonically defeated in SFII by either Ryu or Ken, noting in SFIV that "Dragon Punches suck" as part of the reasoning for his loss. Hugo, however, was noted as being able to take the full brunt of Ryu's Shoryuken in SFIII without even being knocked down.

Thus, if Hugo has been established as being so much more powerful than Zangief to the point where the Red Cyclone has never even come forward to challenge him while Haggar has had no problem dealing with him in any of their encounters, it strongly suggests that Haggar does indeed have the advantage over Zangief.

EDIT: HOWEVER, I just now learned that Zangief is appearing with Hugo in Street FighterxTekken, so perhaps there's still hope for him yet!

As far as I know it is unclear where Gief is in SF3. Who knows what he is doing. Haggar doesn't fight all the time- he spends lots of time being mayor, maybe Gief is doing something similar. But his not showing up to every tournament is not a negative because Haggar doesn't do it either.

Also Gief can clearly take the full force of multiple shoruykens while keep going as playing Ryu vs Gief will show us. It is possibe with his canonical loss that he took ike 100 shoruykens.

There is no suggestion that Geif is afraid of or woud lose to Hugo. We don't know where he is during the events of street fighter 3. I propose that he is restarting the core of the earth which has stopped spinning. There is no evidence either way.

Further street fighter 3 has to occur a considerabe time after street fighter 2/4. Ryu will be an old man, firing old man uppercuts. Like that's saying like Mason Dixon is tougher than Ivan Drago because he didn't getknocked down by Rocky whereas Drago did.

[Red Mage Black]

Aren't both of them wrestlers? Might be an even match from what I can see. Since I know in wrestling and martial arts, it's using your opponents weight and momentum against themselves. Would be awesome to actually see them in the ring against one another, I'll admit. I think at that point, it would be who is the smartest, not strongest fighter. I like Mike Haggar better, but I'll be the first to admit that it's probably an even match, despite the size differences between the two.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Look what I found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkIFe3ZfF4k
You don't need to watch the whole thing- all you need to know is Gief wins.
Videos on the internet cannot lie.

[phil_]

Look what I found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkIFe3ZfF4k
You don't need to watch the whole thing- all you need to know is Gief wins.
Videos on the internet cannot lie.Oh, look, a source sponsored by Netflix, which just so happens to have several Street Fighter movies and shows available for streaming and delivery for $7.99 a month, says that Zangief from Street Fighter would win. Couldn't possibly be a conflict of interests there, nope.

Maybe Hagar should have spent more time in movies rather than making out streets safe and buses run on time?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Zangief appears for like 5 minute in those of the movies. It's not like you'd be like "Yeah Zangief kicked ass! I want to watch the Geif kick more ass- let's watch Street fighter the movie".

[Locke cole]

Yeah, it's more like "Street Fighter wins! Street Fighter kicks so much ass. Hey, look, they have Street Fighter movies here!"

[Flarecobra]

http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/193335-header.jpg

Have a more awesome version from the artist.

http://th01.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2011/050/2/f/an_ant_taking_on_the_sun_by_matsu_sensei-d39y89x.png

[BitVyper]

At the end of the day, hypothetical fights don't even matter, because Zangief loses at life. He'll always be a pawn, or just a big pile of muscle and his personal journeys and all his accomplishments will have lacked even personal value.

[Aerozord]

I haven't played a Street Fighter that wasn't on a cartridge so maybe I'm wrong, but when they used Haggar wasn't his move set just ripped off from Zangief? Cause I did play Final Fight, and I remember his attacks being, Punch, and More Different Punch

[BitVyper]

In fact, Zangief's moveset was ripped from Haggar, if I recall correctly.

Edit: Based on, at any rate.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

The student has become the MASTER

[Jagos]

I haven't played a Street Fighter that wasn't on a cartridge so maybe I'm wrong, but when they used Haggar wasn't his move set just ripped off from Zangief? Cause I did play Final Fight, and I remember his attacks being, Punch, and More Different Punch

Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lREzI-Q478)

Also, Zangief copied the piledriver from Haggar. Hence, the rivalry.

[Locke cole]

The student has become the MASTER

Only a master of COMMUNISM, Barrel.

Have a more awesome version from the artist.


"You must spread some reputation around before giving more to Flarecobra."

Dammit. Well, somebody better give this man some rep. If the Picture I posted deserved rep...

[Revising Ocelot]

Technically I started this whole subject in the NPF Chat yesterday. All credit should go to me.












But it won't.

[Jagos]

... Last I checked Flare was a "she"...

[Revising Ocelot]

There are no genders on the Internet.

Only Zuul!

[Locke cole]

>Implying I know anybody's internet gender.

[Amake]

I'm going only by what I've seen of these fighters personally, alright. That means Street Fighter 2 and Final Fight. In these games, it immediately becomes obvious Haggar has a crippling disadvantage in his style, which consists of one combo: Haymaker, another haymaker, and a two-fisted overhead blow. It's crude, it's slow, it relies on an opponent standing still and not blocking for like three full seconds. He also has a small variety of holds and throws which are just bizarre, as they rely on picking up his opponent with no resistance and holding them while they make no attempt to free themselves. It's something that can only possibly work when you're fighting completely incompetent, untrained opponents, who get intimidated by Haggar's size to such a degree that they lose all ability to fight. Oh, and he has a jumping dropkick. Somebody's been learning moves from the WWF! Also a spinning clothesline where he injures himself to stand in one place and punch in every direction. Very useful when fighting waves of drugged-up cannon fodder, I'm sure.

Haggar does however have the advantage of numerous extra lives at his disposal. He even gets additional lives the more he punches stuff. He can move in three dimensions. And he's not afraid to use the environment, making makeshift weapons out of things he finds on the street and even eating garbage to keep his strength up in a drawn-out battle. That's strategic thinking. I'd say that makes him a better street fighter than Zangief.

Zangief's style is geared for semi-formal fighting tournaments. He's traded blows with supernaturally skilled fighters, the kind that stands out as the top ten among five billion people. If this debate is to be settled in a one-on-one fight, Zangief can't possibly lose. His repertoire of thirty-one different strikes, seven throws and three holds is going to make him unpredictable to the extreme; Haggar is going to spend all his nine lives guessing what Zangief is going to do next. Tactically, Zangief is just a completely different class of fighter.

Though if it's some sort of competition over who provides the most value to society Zangief is equally outmatched. The only thing I'd even consider a contribution is his status as a famous athlete, which may inspire people. He has actually been an inspiration to me personally, which is more than can be said for Haggar. (I was dazed and mashing the buttons trying to snap out of it, Blanka did a flying rolling ball, I woke up at the last possible instant, grabbed him out of the air and did a spinning piledriver.) But still, Haggar has proved himself to be a) a hands-on crimefighting responsibility-taking mayor, b) a positive influence on his city and c) a loyal friend, which on paper makes him a better person than Zangief.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Haggar's petty regionalism is thekind ofthinking which has doomed this world. Zangief is fighting for world revolution- the only change which can fix the world.

[Locke cole]

The only revolution Zangief cares about is you revolving the control stick to do his lariat move.

[POS Industries]

The only revolution Zangief cares about is you revolving the control stick to do his lariat move.
You don't use the stick for his lariat. You're thinking of his piledriver.