RMB Runs Kingmaker (Pathfinder Adventure Path) Rules and Sign-Up

[Red Mage Black]

Okay, time to lay down the law. Kingmaker is just what it says on the tin. It's great for those who are playing Pathfinder for the first time. This will act as the general rules thread for those who are playing and those who might wish to play, considering not all the participants, as I was told, are confirmed to play.

The Kingmaker Adventure Path is six books long and I have them all, going all the way from levels 1-16. All you really need is the Kingmaker Player's Guide and access to the Pathfinder SRD.

Books Allowed:
Advanced Player's Guide
Ultimate Magic
Ultimate Combat

I'm still debating on allowing monstrous humanoid characters. They have some good ones in the PFSRD Bestiary that don't have any ECL.

Classes Allowed: Anything additional from the APG or other listed books.
Restricted Alignments: Lawful Good to True Neutral, no Evil. (As I'm aware that it's possible to perform bad deeds without having to be Evil.)
Restricted Races: As I stated above and now this, I'm being advised to avoid monstrous humanoids, but I'm perfectly willing to negotiate. As long as the whole party isn't something you could run into in a random encounter.

Players so far:
Nikose (Confirmed) - Paladin (Holy Gun Archetype)
Sifright (Confirmed)
AkaSM (Confirmed, but pending on reading ruleset)
DarkDrgon (Confirmed) - Bard
Relm (Confirmed) - Oracle
Aldurin (Confirmed)

>Person not from NPF< (Not totally confirmed)

If anyone needs the links, I'll throw them in.

Links to ze resources:
Pathfinder SRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/)
Player's Guide Download (http://paizo.com/store/games/roleplayingGames/p/pathfinderRPG/paizo/pathfinderAdventurePath/kingmaker/v5748btpy8dqh&source=search)

Edit: Yes, I'm allowing Archetypes. Most should be listed on the SRD. Along with additional domains for Clerics and Druids and additional Bloodlines for Sorcerers.

[Nikose Tyris]

I'm very likely rolling a Social Paladin, but I'm still reading the rulebook to make sure there's no hidden left-hook here; I need a grasp on the skills first.

[DarkDrgon]

If there is room for a Bard, i'm definitely in. how will the game be run? by post, in a chat type thing? gametable or equivalent?

[Nikose Tyris]

I believe it's gonna be MSN; and what rolling system? heroic rolls?

or point buy? Point buy seems most legit.

edit: also, since Kingmaker player's guide is a free download from Paizo, you should link it in the first post.

[Red Mage Black]

If there is room for a Bard, i'm definitely in. how will the game be run? by post, in a chat type thing? gametable or equivalent?
Well, I don't know what Sifright is rolling yet, but I got someone from AIM that's planning on a Tiefling Necromancer(Wizard obviously). But yeah, a Bard is always welcome in a group.

As for rolls, I was going to let the players choose. It's basically you choose Point Buy(25 points) and have a chance to round off or Heroic Rolls (2d6+6) and take your chances with high or low rolls. Decision is final however.

[Aldurin]

I might be in, assuming the time can be worked for me. I'll just look at the rulebooks to see what this changes from 3.5e.

[akaSM]

If I can get past the rulebooks and whatnot, I'm in ^_^

[Nikose Tyris]

VOTE: ALDRUIN

Also Yay Aka! :D

[Aldurin]

Which thread were you trying to post in?

[Nikose Tyris]

Just promoting a policy lynch of Aldurin in RMB's game!

[Grimpond]

haha, I'd love to join in is possible.

[Aldurin]

Just promoting a policy lynch of Aldurin in RMB's game!

Hey, most of that character difficulty was because my character was in the DnD equivalent of Heavy Rain.

[Red Mage Black]

God, I hate declining people to play. This group has already gotten to 6 people, which means the CR is getting jacked up a little due to the size. However, there is one very specific rule. Due to the group size, if you are absent for 2 games without a reasonable explanation, you're out. I understand life problems and busyness comes up and I can deal with that. It's inevitable really, but if something comes up and you think you're going to be too busy and your schedule is unsure if you're going to be able to make it, then it'd probably be best to bow out. The reason being, that I'm sure you wouldn't want to be the one to really deprive anyone of a game. With that in mind, if you bow out gracefully and respectfully, you'll probably have the chance to return in the future. As I'd hate for someone to miss out on the whole deal if life stuff came up that was inevitable. Sounds kind of unfair to deny someone just because their life was made a little more difficult because of something they couldn't avoid.

[Nikose Tyris]

RMB and I are chatting on MSN. He's really bad at turning people away- and he's actually terrified that just 6 people is going to be getting out of hand; He'd actually prefer if you withdrew, Grimpond and/or Aldurin, to make it easier on him, rather than outright tell you "Game is full", or to have to kick someone later.

[akaSM]

Since the game's getting full, I'll leave my spot for someone else. I haven't played a D&D game before so, I could learn a thing or two by watching :3

[Red Mage Black]

I mean, I really feel guilty about asking people to sit it out. I mean, I like setting higher priority for newer players. Pathfinder isn't a very big change from 3.5. Kind of like if instead of scrapping the system for 4e, they refined it. Fighters actually feel like a class and Monks actually feel like something other than being able strike unarmed for higher damage. I just feel incredibly guilty when people don't get to play.

[Aldurin]

I would really like to get into this (haven't actually participated in any real DnD game beyond some of what Nikose did last summer) but if you absolutely need to have 1 less person on there, then I would sit out.

[Red Mage Black]

Well, if akaSM is going to sit it out, I can deal with six players. Granted, the CR is going to be a little higher than in the book, it's not that big of a problem. You're still good to play, Aldurin. I hate to admit that not only is the current amount my limit, but odd numbers tend to make me nervous. I guess it's an OCD thing? I dunno.

As a note, I'm allowing guns... to an extent. I only really suggest it for people who think they can handle it and probably recommend that people stick to the tried and true classic ranged weapons. Nikose is sort of acting as the guinea pig for guns in this game to see if they're at all effective. I can honestly say that the archetypes are sort of new to me, but the rest of the system is not, but they're not too much different from the class variants in 3.5, so they're not a problem.

[Sifright]

I'm thinking of running as a rogue built towards scouting and thieving, reading through the king makers guide slowly at work (when no one is looking) I'll try to build a character sheet for the end of today. I have to point out in January I will be going on holiday for two weeks and the chances of me having internet access whilst abroad are very slim.

[Grimpond]

That's fine then nik. Have fun with this!

[DarkDrgon]

Is there a confirmed day/time for this? If its at a bad time, i'll vacate my spot for someone else/more manageable game.

[Red Mage Black]

No exact confirmed dates, but we may need to set up something to meet on MSN to plan out something that will work for everyone. All I got from Nik was that Tuesdays were the best for him. I don't know everyone else though.

elaine_colm@hotmail.com

[Aldurin]

Weekdays work fine, though I'd have to know what timeframe we'd work on as soon as possible (I can have availability either late afternoon/evening PST or 7 AM-ish) since my work availability does not account for non-college plans (and I don't have any set days off) and availability changes won't take effect until the third week I submit them.

[Red Mage Black]

Okay, so here's our list thus far:
Nikose: Holy Gun Paladin (Social Focus. Guns are the best kind of Diplomacy.)
Relm: Oracle (No idea what Archetype yet, probably Heaven)
Sifright: Rogue or Ranger(Trap Ranger, probably)
DarkDrgon: Bard (No idea if normal or may use Archetype)
akaSM: No idea what class.
Aldurin: No idea what class.

Most I can see is weekday games from here. Since I don't have everyone's schedules for the matter, but I will be contacting people on the matter. This is going to be a really unique game and it'll probably end up way more awesome than the last group I ran it with. Who I think pretty much used vanilla classes, except for the one shapechanger ranger in the group. I can hope this group doesn't rush to get to the end of the book like the last one.

[Aldurin]

I think fighter is going to be how I start, I just have to work out some dilemmas.

I'm going to go with one of the human/half-human races, but which one I take will probably depend on my style.

I could attempt to rebuild the Orc rapetrain from Nik's game as a half-orc, but I'll need to take a bit to browse the Ultimate Combat stuff to be sure.

[Nikose Tyris]

Almost finished. I'm seriously considering walking away from Holy Gun- we already have a ranged warrior, and I should focus on rounding out the party more.

Still Paladin.

PS: Aldy, if you catch me on MSN, Message me.

[Nikose Tyris]

Camille Orlovsky (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=341568)
Female Lawful Good Human Paladin, Level 1, Init +3, HP 14/14, Speed 30
AC 18, Touch 13, Flat-footed 15, Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +3, Base Attack Bonus +1
Longsword +5 (1d8, 19-20x2)
Scale Mail (+5 Armor, +3 Dex)
Abilities Str 17, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 12, Cha 18
Condition None

[DarkDrgon]

RMB I've added you, so don't be alarmed at an odd request when you sign onto MSN

[tacticslion]

It's a little spammy, but I'm just popping in to say that I approve of this, and hope you're game goes great! I can't join, as I'm in the middle of a Kingmaker game myself, but this sounds like a blast and I hope you guys enjoy thoroughly.

So, Nik, you're not going with Holy Gun (I'm guessing based on your sword and, you know, lack of gun)? That's too bad (but still cool)! I was looking forward to hearing how it went. Enjoy nonetheless! :)

[Nikose Tyris]

As of Right now, we have 3 players with submitted and approved Character Sheets:

Myself [Off-Tank, Off-Heal [Human Paladin]]
Aldurin [Tank [Half-Orc Fighter]]
Sifright [Range DPS [Elven Rogue]]
DarkDrgon [Support [Half-Elf Bard]]

Unconfirmed, we have:
Relm [Divine [? Oracle]]
Marius [Arcane [Young Human Shadow Destined Sorcerer]]
??? [??? [??? ???]]

And since the game wanted to be capped at around 5 players, At this point it's whoever submits their sheet first, I think. xD

[DarkDrgon]

Building my sheet now, Link to dice rolls (2d6+6, feels kinda high TBH, but i'll run with it)
STR 14, DEX 15, CON 15, INT 11, WIS 11, CHA 15 (http://invisiblecastle.com/stats/view/28148/)

EDIT: Do we have a healer, or should I pick up that slack? 1st level bard spells aren't that great, so I don't mind making one of them CLW if we need to

EDIT2: also am shuffling those stats around

[Nikose Tyris]

Of the core submitted/approved, I think I'm the only "Healer", although the Oracle may have a selection of healing spells too. It wouldn't hurt to have CLW.

[DarkDrgon]

here ya go
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=342008

[Aldurin]

I can confirm that I am now available every Friday from 1-3 PM PST starting this Friday, so I'm ready to start the game this week if everyone else is ready by then.

[tacticslion]

(... no one benefited ever.)

Of the core submitted/approved, I think I'm the only "Healer", although the Oracle may have a selection of healing spells too. It wouldn't hurt to have CLW.

Oracle automatically gets the cure/inflict spells as additional spells known, that don't count against their limit.

In addition to the spells gained by oracles as they gain levels, each oracle also adds all of either the cure spells or the inflict spells to her list of spells known (cure spells include all spells with “cure” in the name, inflict spells include all spells with “inflict” in the name). These spells are added as soon as the oracle is capable of casting them. This choice is made when the oracle gains her first level and cannot be changed.

You can see that here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle).

Also, RMB, a few suggestions based off of my experiences so far and also general GM advice (spoiled for the players - don't read these if you're not RMB; the parts that poke through don't really matter, though, as they're non-spoilerly links... except the Paizo forums. Don't go there, unless RMB says to):
1) Don't try to railroad (aka control) this one. It's not wise to even try with this Adventure Path, as it's a full-on sandbox on purpose. The "railroad" will happen on its own when the "timed" events occur. The timing is your power over the game. Too easy? Bump up the timed events (aka those things that happen to cause the plot to move forward). They don't go where they're supposed to? Don't worry about it. That guy/gal joins up with whatever rising tide happens, and they'll see him/her later, and/or they take over the local area. Alternatively, use it as inspiration for a different army/enemy unconnected to the first, when the mass combat happens later. That will ensure that they'll really, really wish they'd done that quest hook before. You can introduce and run the (now more difficult because they're waiting for them!) adventure then. Etc.

2) Don't worry about all the side quests or making people do them all or completing them in "just the right way". They're awesome. They're also waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy too specific in what they require to "complete". I found no less than twelve incredible examples of ancient elven art, but only the one mithril statue satisfies? Whatever. I can bring back an entire treasure trove, including genuine artifacts, but I have to make a drawing to please the professor? Ugh. My GM was great about this: she either metagamed for the purpose of letting the story continue without us worrying about "what the heck?" or allowed our alternate, but still basic-criteria-meeting stuff to apply instead. And, most importantly on this point, they're optional.

3) The most important thing to remember: the country-building things are only guidelines, not super-hard rules. Even a cursory glance through the rules should tell you that they aren't balanced - some things give half the bonus for triple the cost. Don't use the rules as written as the iron rod that controls everything (because that can really hurt the players), nor should you let them run roughshod over you (because they're really kind of broken - and that's from someone who likes them a great deal!). I made a post to Nik in the other thread (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?p=1164914#post1164914) about something called the Book of River Nations (http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/j/jonBrazerEnterprises/v5748btpy8kgr&source=search) in this post (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=1164255&postcount=125). I'd recommend that as a better source of the game rules, from all I've heard (it was specifically made as a supplement to Kingmaker by third party guys who Paizo - the creators of Pathfinder - approve of, even though they don't officially "endorse", as it's not their product. Also check out the official Paizo kingmaker message boards (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/adventurePath/kingmaker) for tons of great ideas. However, and this is important, if you change things, make sure you tell your players before instituting the change. Also, you can change things in-game. You can easily explain it as "supply/demand" economic shifts from beyond the borders of the fledgling kingdom that have washed into the PCs kingdom.

4) I solo'd the boss from adventure three. However, don't take that as he's weak: he's actually the opposite of that and can really easily kill entire parties on accident if they don't find/have the right weapons, I just prepared really well and my character is so super-over-powered that it was ridiculous to put the other party members in danger when I was more than capable of handling it myself... which I (mostly) was (though it cost my seventh level character almost all 300-or-so of his daily power points and almost all thirty-or-so spell slots available in a day). Basically, he and his traps can easily be a party killer. Tread carefully with him!

5) Feel free to start blending elements of adventure two into other adventures. The timeline isn't that hard, I don't think, and I'd guess that it works much better that way. I'm aware there's some sort of timeline with those things that I'm not privy to, but we ran the werewolf thing after we'd built the tavern and the waitress was attacked. That also seems like a good time for the witch thing.

6) Related to number "3", allow your players to get creative when designing cities. Don't make it easy, but allowing such things as an underwater city grid (populated by various aquatic folk), a mountainous city grid (populated by ettercaps and other "monstrous" races useful for their rare products) gives our players a fantastic feeling, despite the rather breathtaking expense it represents in our game. I mean, I was thrilled that our capital (sitting on top of the Stag Lord's old fort) was able to take our rather large collection of aquatic fey and reincarnated-to-aquatic now-good ex-villains (we've been busy) and give them an actual city grid to integrate them into the city. They're also going to be making exotic underwater farms, soon, too.

7) Totally a note from my home game - we're running on negative consumption due to farms - literally we've got so many farms that we're producing an excess of goods that we can sell and thus have additional BP each month. That's very much so against the "core" rules, but it's "balanced" in our game for requiring one additional "granary" for each "farm hex" that would go over our "cost" (i.e., if we want a farm hex to grant us BP/month, we've got to have a granary to hold the stuff until we, as a kingdom, can sell the excess off).

8) Terribly important: BP does not equal gold. At all. You don't "spend BP" in as the building shop in order to buy buildings. Instead, BP is an abstraction that represents an abstract amount of goods, services, money, and most importantly the general strength of the economy relative to its ability to handle sudden influxes and changes. When you spend gold to get BP, you're literally pumping money into the kingdom in general. When you're withdrawing BP as gold from the economy, you're not going into the treasury, you're literally draining resources from your kingdom for your own purposes (thus the unrest). Don't describe BP as concrete, solid resources, but instead describe it as a very abstract generalization; otherwise you'll open yourself to all sorts of shenanigans you don't want. Gaining and losing BP, similarly, isn't a single, discrete transaction. When a magic item is "sold" for BP, what's really happening is: advertisements occur, people and runners are hired to make contact, visitors from out of country come to look at it or send messengers to inquire, stay at inns, eat the food, purchase minor things, and generally create excitement not directly related to the magic item itself, with the final purchase of the item simply being the result of many buyers being interested and spending some money in your kingdom along various points.

9) Related: magic items "available" aren't there for the taking, nor are they really "there" in the shop. They are all, always on layaway. No, your people cannot demand the shop keep "give them up or else" just because they're the "rulers": that's a great way to head toward an overthrow. The shop keep doesn't have them there: he has to get it in. Keep that in mind if your players literally want to plan a "royal heist".

10) ALSO related: allow them to sell junk magic items off, though not for BP. 'Cause getting a level 1 potion you don't need and having it sit there forever taking up a spot you used valuable BP to get is lame. We sell the stuff off but gain no boon other than the slot.

11) So, that's what I got for now. I really hope you enjoy. And again, look at the forums for great advice, suggestions, and explanations for all sorts of things.

[Aldurin]

Yay, game starts tomorrow. In case RMB didn't tell the rest of you, Nikose and some person not on the list (I assume it's the non-forumer) are breaking off into their own game. Thus it is I, Sifright, Relm, DarkDrgon and whatever NPC bullshit coolness RMB tries to pull.

And a reminder for RMB:
http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/488172974_ycai7-L-2.jpg

[Aldurin]

Guys, game starts today at 1-3 PST, 4-6 EST, and whatever else timezones we're using. I won't be available for any late continuations.

EDIT: Double check what time conversion you're using, since Google is making Sifright think the game starts later.

[Aldurin]

Ok, I'm good for tomorrow and next Friday for sure. But I don't have confirmation on Black Friday until my work finally decides what the schedule will be (they had it up for like 2 days before they threw it out), since the original plan would have made me miss that session.