Skyrim! Or "There can be only one!"

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Finally got around to fighting Rahgot. Fight wasn't so bad, but god damn that dungeon. I've never died so much in a single area before.

Still, least I got my 4th mask. Only 4 more to go...

I seem to be experiencing a glitch with my Morokei mask though, occasionally the graphic glitches out and my entire face vanishes. I have to repeatedly reload to make it load up the texture properly. This wouldn't be so bad if not for the fact that when it does it it actually reduces my regen as well, as if I'm no longer wearing the mask. Really irritating.

[Azisien]

So it turns out that the perks keep coming even after level 50 then? I didn't know that. I was planning out my build on the assumption that 50 was the cap, so it now seems I can afford to put points into other things after all.

Maximum theoretical level is 80 or something, and you keep getting perks every level. The number of skill increases needed to level is pretty high at this point though. I don't see myself having the stamina to get past level 60, if that.

[Aerozord]

hey guys, I was thinking of getting Skyrim for the PC, just how resource intensive is the game? To put into perspective I can run New Vegas just fine, but Deus Ex kicked my computer in its virtual balls.

[Azisien]

It's basically running the Fallout engine, or a slightly modified version anyway. Scales pretty well with medium-low hardware specs.

There is a problem with the game only using 2GB of RAM maximum, and that reduces performance for everyone. There's a mod out there to open that up, but I think Bethesda is working on an official patch for it too, out soon.

[Bells]

It's basically running the Fallout engine, or a slightly modified version anyway. Scales pretty well with medium-low hardware specs.

There is a problem with the game only using 2GB of RAM maximum, and that reduces performance for everyone. There's a mod out there to open that up, but I think Bethesda is working on an official patch for it too, out soon.

Yes i posted it in this thread a while ago, but forgot what page was it. I used that mod (it's very simple to do) and it does improve performance, made me go from High to nearly Full Ultra setting without loss on FPS

[Bob The Mercenary]

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/11/18/bethesda-skyrim-patch-en-route-for-week-after-thanksgiving/?ns_campaign=article-feed&ns_mchannel=ref&ns_source=steam&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0

Check out the comments section. Make one mention of Thanksgiving in your article and oh my lord...

[Marc v4.0]

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/11/18/bethesda-skyrim-patch-en-route-for-week-after-thanksgiving/?ns_campaign=article-feed&ns_mchannel=ref&ns_source=steam&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0

Check out the comments section. Make one mention of Thanksgiving in your article and oh my lord...

Britain: Why did you accept gifts from the natives, and then kill them!?
American Colonies: Well, I-
Britain: Who told you to act this way? To kill all the natives!?
American Colonies: I learned it from you, alright! I learned it from watching you!

[Aerozord]

yea and as one pointed out, it wasn't "americans" that did the killing, it was British because USA didn't exist for about 100 years. Plus the gripe never made any sense, we are celebrating how awesome the Natives were, not how much colonists were dicks

[Marc v4.0]

...*SIGH*

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Whelp, it's happened, I've finally had to do something I would never do in a game ever; turn the difficulty down to easy. Why? Because I got stuck in a bullshit impossible battle where every mage in the area could 1 shot me in 1 go, my magic wouldn't regen at full speed, there was nowhere to run to and my hits wouldn't fucking register, or if they did, they did no damage.

Even then I still need potions to barely survive. I fucking hate magic users in this game, I really do.

[Krylo]

Solution to magic users is the same solution as to everything else: Six feet of piping hot daedric steel rammed through their chest.

...Swinging it through their necks also works.

[Aldurin]

Whelp, it's happened, I've finally had to do something I would never do in a game ever; turn the difficulty down to easy. Why? Because I got stuck in a bullshit impossible battle where every mage in the area could 1 shot me in 1 go, my magic wouldn't regen at full speed, there was nowhere to run to and my hits wouldn't fucking register, or if they did, they did no damage.

Even then I still need potions to barely survive. I fucking hate magic users in this game, I really do.

And I assume you leveled your combat skills reasonably for your actual level? I'm trying to do the first ruins for the College of Winterhold, but being level 22 with less than 40 destruction makes it near impossible (I managed to get as far as the superboss by some miracle, and that's it).

[Bob The Mercenary]

Tell me about it. I'm at the end of two separate dungeons where the bosses pretty much one shot me across the room. Think I might have to hire every mercenary available to get through either of them.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

It's not even the bosses that are doing me in, even normal "Novice" mages are stupidly powerful and seemingly immmune to magic. It often takes 4-5 hits with dualcast chain lightning to take down a single 1. And this is at level 33 with Destruction in the mid 60s.

[Marc v4.0]

My weapon skill is in the mid 70's, and I'm only 22. That might be your problem.

[Krylo]

I've been going straight up swording, but I haven't noticed a huge/any difference in, say, my healing by getting restoration up. Other than the one perk I took to increase healing by 150% everything has remained static. I don't think spell power scales with skill? Which means the only reason to level the skill is to be able to equip the more powerful spells and get perks.

So, destruction skill in mid-60s doesn't matter, just that you're using chain lightning.

Also: I don't know about how well mages take magic 'cause, again, swording, but I know they do not deal well with the aforementioned steel shoved through them. Get yourself a bound battleaxe or something and just chop them up.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Yeah magic doesn't increase in damage, it just costs less to cast. And I haven't even found any of the expert level spells yet, so no chance of moving on to them just yet.

Also I am using like, 4 schools of magic, as well as enchanting, and the other side skills like lockpicking and speech which just build up naturally as you play anyway, so maybe the side crap has just accumulated to push my overall level up enough to make enemies too difficult.

[Marc v4.0]

I've been going straight up swording, but I haven't noticed a huge/any difference in, say, my healing by getting restoration up. Other than the one perk I took to increase healing by 150% everything has remained static. I don't think spell power scales with skill? Which means the only reason to level the skill is to be able to equip the more powerful spells and get perks.

So, destruction skill in mid-60s doesn't matter, just that you're using chain lightning.

Also: I don't know about how well mages take magic 'cause, again, swording, but I know they do not deal well with the aforementioned steel shoved through them. Get yourself a bound battleaxe or something and just chop them up.

The higher his destruction skill, the more often he would be seeing the advanced spell books for it in shops. To a point, you still have to slum about the College for the really good stuff. It's just an odd choice they made with the Magic stuff, it seems.

[Bob The Mercenary]

I think I've found a new purpose in life, huntin' treasure. I've found three pieces of the map so far.

[Nikose Tyris]

I'm running on Adept difficulty [Normal mode], Destruction at 60 and level 28, and I'm honestly just chewing through mages and other enemies with lightning bolt. I die in a single blow just like you, I just don't get hit all that often; Keep moving in open areas, use any Thu'ums [preference on Ice Body], and just keep hammering away at the rooms.

[Technically this advice works on Master Difficulty as my roommate appears to be a HUGE DICK and changed my difficulty while I was in the bathroom a while back.]

[Azisien]

Yeah magic doesn't increase in damage, it just costs less to cast. And I haven't even found any of the expert level spells yet, so no chance of moving on to them just yet.

Also I am using like, 4 schools of magic, as well as enchanting, and the other side skills like lockpicking and speech which just build up naturally as you play anyway, so maybe the side crap has just accumulated to push my overall level up enough to make enemies too difficult.

Honestly, don't think so. I don't know what the problem with your particular game is.

Up until I started the Dark Brotherhood quests, which I just concluded (fantastic by the way), I had never used a weapon, or worn armor. Those skills were in the 10-15 range. My perks were definitely in Destruction, but also lots into Enchanting and Smithing. I've never encountered a fight even close to what you describe, and generally regular mook mages can't stand up to magic assaults any better than swordy-types unless they are putting up wards. Which, admittedly, they do sometimes, but you should be able to see the wards. As we've chatted before too, I have trained even less health than you. None, in fact. If anybody is one-hit material, it's me. But it happens very infrequently.

That's not to say I haven't found stuff that can one-shot me, but it's always tougher enemies like Ancient Dragons, Dragon Priests, and some jerkass Dremora from some quest. I will say that Chain Lightning kind of blows in my experience. I used Lightning Bolt and Fireball until I had the magicka to dual cast Thunderbolt consistently. Still, it shouldn't be as dire as you've explained.

As for me, I was GOING to begin the main quest soon, but in doing the Dark Brotherhood line, my journal is now chock full of quests to do again. Level 54, every magic school mastered except Restoration. Since there was a lot of stealth stuff in the Dark Brotherhood, I went and smithed/enchanted myself a set of Assassin gear. +40% Sneak/1H damage on three items, health and stamina on the rest. I was a ghost, and without a single perk in Sneak! Not to mention my custom made Deathstick glass sword dealt 140 damage per strike, times six with backstab.

[Nikose Tyris]

There's a set of gloves that stacks a second x2 multiplier, making it x12 [or with the right perks, x30].

[CABAL49]

Invest in Conjuration. Having your own Dremora is pretty handy. He takes the blows while you blast everything with magic. I did run into some difficulties, for the reason of I didn't take breaks in between smithing and Enchanting to bring up my combat skills, but my mage is crazy powerful. Everything burns, or I run away using my Dremora as a distraction. The only skills I am having trouble getting up are Restoration and Illusion. Restoration cause I avoid damage and I only ever use muffle every now and then.

[Bob The Mercenary]

How would you say I should plan my perk advancement if I'm going for a thief build? Right now I'm going heavy on archery and sneak, but I'm thinking light armor and block would also be good. Though I'd like to try a little alchemy or smithing on the side.

[Bells]

How would you say I should plan my perk advancement if I'm going for a thief build? Right now I'm going heavy on archery and sneak, but I'm thinking light armor and block would also be good. Though I'd like to try a little alchemy or smithing on the side.

you will need Sneak and Bow so you are already golden with that. Light armor is great but you need to improve it to be able to keep up. Focus your growth on Health (you only really need to low level magic, and you get a lot of use out of your stamina due to being light), let lockpick grow naturally. If you take Blocking, then keep a shield around but for weapons go one hand with the Bound Sword Spell. You can also later learn Bound Axe and dual wield those weapons for some really massive damage.

Or cast aside the shield and blocking and use a dagger (to get the backstabbing bonus) and Bound sword

In the end you will have all the options you need. 3x Damage with bows from really far out, Quick backstab in tight quarters, lightining fast and decent damage without weight overload with Bound Sword (plus there is a perk for it that makes it auto-trap souls when it kills a target, good for enchanting stuff)

Also, learn and get used to do headshots, specially after you get the Critical Hit perk for bows and the 3x sneak bonus, you can one shot a LOT of enemies that way or mow then down enough to handle them head on due to your larger health later. You will also be able to out-run giants, which is always good.

[Marc v4.0]

Oh, right, I have this thing if anyone needs it

http://skyrimperks.com/calculator

[EVILNess]

STUFF I HAVE FOUND OUT ABOUT SKYRIM AND THOUGHT I MIGHT SHARE WITH YOU:
1. Sheathing your weapon/spells = Running faster (Or normal speed).
2. Equilibrium + Healing = Massive boosts to Restoration and Alteration.
3. Casting Soul Trap on a dead thing repeatedly will raise Conjuration up to 100 pretty fast. (I think this might be a bug...)
4. Setting fire to a summoned ally is the best way I have found to power up your Destruction.
5. Courage on any random NPC is an awesome way to boost Illusion. Dual Wield it for even better results.
6. I got this method for increasing smithing, enchanting, speech, and make money from a friend of mine: Smith iron daggers, then enchant with Banish using a petty soul gem. Then you sell the daggers back.
7. With a clever application of enchanting and alchemy you can get even more powerful enchantments on your stuff.
8. Fortify Destruction (Or any school really) as high as you can get it on 4 pieces of armor makes Destruction Spells FREE. In fact, if you enchant 4 pieces of clothes with Fortify destruction and restoration both 25%. It makes both schools free, and you literally cannot die. (Unless you get one-shotted)

[Krylo]

I've now completed the primary quest line and the war on the side of the Stormcloaks. Given how the ending turned out, I don't think the Thalmar will be much of a problem in the epilogue.

[CABAL49]

I have Keening. This makes me happy to no end.

[Pip Boy]

One thing that really disappointed me is that a lot of this game seemed to be about getting skyrim's shit in line to prepare it for the upcoming battle with the Thalmore, which the game never really seems to get around to. Especially since the ending felt rushed and anti-climactic to me. Hopefully we'll get a war with the Thalmore in a future expansion.

[Seil]

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u59/Poetisch/internet-memes-thank-akatosh-for-auto-save.jpg

[Azisien]

I think my game saves every 10 minutes and I didn't even turn that feature on. If you lose 3 hours in Skyrim in a non-save-game-corrupted way, you deserve it!

And on that note, level 54, cast destruction magic for free, killed 6 of the presumably 8 Dragon Priests, and am proceeding through the main quest. Got Dragonrend, is incredibly handy. Besides that, I think Marked for Death is my favourite Shout. And of course Unrelenting Force whenever a cliff is involved.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Yeah I just got Marked for Death myself whilst having a wander south of High Hrothgar. So handy. Also had like, 5 dragon encounters in that same area too, which was interesting. Had an awkward situation where I encountered 2 Draugr Deathlords with ebony waraxes, a bunch of skeletons and a Frost Dragon all at the same time, which was a hell of a fight. Worth it though, my magic ring just doubled in effectiveness again thanks to the awesome loot in the area.

I've also been working for the various Deadric gods recently and have sacrificed Sven, the bard from Riverwood, to one of them in my quest for ultimate power.

And I have all the words for frost breath now, but still only the first word for the far more useful fire breath, which is slightly dissapointing.

Oh and if anybody spoils what happens when you get all 8 masks for me I swear I will jump through the internet and murder you!

[Krylo]

I found the frost and fire breaths pretty underwhelming compared to pretty much any other shout, personally. The damage just didn't hold up to what you could do with one of the various buff/debuff shouts.

My favorite is/was slow time. Dodge arrows in bullet time, close distance, and cut up three dudes in the time it takes anyone outside your time dilation to swing their sword once, etc. But even without a cliff unrelenting force usually enables more safe damage on them while they're getting up, with less shout cool down, than fire or frost breath.

[DarkDrgon]

man, i'm still way in the early game. level 10, doing the mage quest line. i wish i had more time to play

[Aldurin]

I've also been working for the various Deadric gods recently and have sacrificed Sven, the bard from Riverwood, to one of them in my quest for ultimate power.

One bard down, but you'll have to keep up the good work to wipe them all out.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I'm keeping them around in case more sacrifices are needed. Otherwise it's a waste of good sacrificial blood.

[CABAL49]

Oh and if anybody spoils what happens when you get all 8 masks for me I swear I will jump through the internet and murder you!

Snape kills Dumbledore Can you resist it?

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Yes.

EDIT; I just started doing the Forsworn conspiracy quest and can now categorically state that Markath can go fuck itself. When the guards tried to frame me for murder, rather than do the obvious thing and simply submit, I broke free, blasted a guard off the high balcony outside the shrine, and fled the city (whereupon a dragon attacked, just totally ruining my day even further). I decided to return to the city, guns blazing and show these corrupt fuckers who's boss around here (hint; it's me, Dovakiin bitches!). However when I got there I decided, for once, excess violence was not the answer, it would be more fun to storm the city and race to the jarl, with whom I could plead my case and get shit straightened out, using only calm spells to pacify the guards and minimize colateral damage. This worked fine right up until the point where I got to the jarls throne and found him absent, and LITERALLY, 50 guards stormed me. What ensued can only be described as an utterly insane and manic chase through the jarls place as I began searching every room for him whilst being pelted with arrows and spells, until I was finally forced to submit and was carted off to prison.

But when I get out of here, the gloves are most definately coming off. Illusion magic and peaceful resolutions are over. Markarth will burn.

It was suitably epic though and I feel it's probably the most badass thing I've done so far.

[Azisien]

Beat the main quest. Entirely underwhelming, short, bleh. Exactly like Oblivion. I was hoping they would improve, and I guess they did because DRAGONS, but that's about it. The good news is, a whole 2ish hours was spent on the "main" quest, whereas I've clocked 85 on the rest.

Now the real question is, do I begin planning my own mod. It might save me from buying other games?!

[Krylo]

I consider the war between the Legion/Stormcloaks just as much 'main quest' as the whole dragon thing, but yeah both are pretty short (and the war seems set at low levels or something, as I didn't start it until about level 45ish with my two handed character and just blew through one shotting everything without even bothering to use power attacks and taking no damage no matter how many ganged up on me--that did make it hilarious, though). I do think they were better than Oblivion's though. I mean, for one thing, I actually finished them. They were fun and didn't feel like I was being dragged all over, being bored. I felt engaged in both and like it was something that was worth doing just to do as opposed to save the world. Something I don't generally care about, by itself, in video games.

So yeah, length wise about the same, which does leave it feel a little underwhelming just because it's such a very small part of the over all experience, but actual writing and ability to immerse and engage, and keep a constant feel that it is something you want to do? Far better than Oblivion.

Edit: Though I do think Sovngarde, or wtfever it's spelled, was done much better than the Oblivion Gates by making it a place you don't really get to until the end. Plus Kodlak was there after my companion quest line was all done and I had saved him from the hunting fields. That was a nice touch. But, like, in Oblivion, I just didn't give a shit about the Oblivion Gates because they were repeating. Like, the first one was cool, and after that it was just 'oh this place again'. By limiting the otherworldly stuff to just once at the end it gives the 'breaking the barrier between worlds' thing more gravity.

Though, honestly, all Elder Scroll games and quests could be improved immensely by the addition of more Sheogorath. His quest in Skyrim was my favorite Daedric Quest (Nocturnal's was pretty good too, but I don't know if that really counts), and Shivering Isles were far and away the best part of Oblivion.

[Aldurin]

Sheograth needs to be the protagonist of Elder Scrolls VI.

[Marc v4.0]

If you finish Shivering Isles before you tackle Oblivion proper, that's pretty much what it is.

I honestly don't get the complaints over the length. The main quest lines have never been that long. Morrowind had the longest, but that was because it made you wander aimlessly about the wilderness trying to find locations using poor or outright incorrect directions and a pretty shitty map. The parts near the end where your general objective is "Eh, somewhere on Red Mountain, I guess? I dunno. Fuck you" were particularly annoying.

But, if you knew where you needed to go already, you could do the entire thing, not skipping, in an hour and some change.

As far as DLC goes, I want to know where Jyggalag wandered off too.

[greed]

Sheograth needs to be the protagonist of Elder Scrolls VI.

Wasn't he the protagonist of Oblivion though? What with the whole thing. The Sheogorath in this hints at being Oblivion's protag as well.

[Marc v4.0]

Wasn't he the protagonist of Oblivion though? What with the whole thing. The Sheogorath in this hints at being Oblivion's protag as well.

"Hints" is one way of putting it

I would go with it clearly isn't the original Sheogorath at all

[Aldurin]

Even if he already was, it needs to happen again.

[Azisien]

I honestly don't get the complaints over the length. The main quest lines have never been that long.

I don't see what the potential failing of a previous game has to do with the failing of its sequels? That's if you consider it a failing, which is a matter of opinion really. I would even consider that too harsh a description, but...

Part of the underwhelming nature was probably my godhood when tackling the main quest. Alduin went down in about ten seconds both times. Woo. Nice world-eating, bro. It's more than that, though, I guess. I'm not sure what to say here? Elder Scrolls games as a whole feel like you're thrust into a fantasy novel. For the most part, you write the novel yourself. That's the appeal of the game to me, but that being said, the main quest feels like I'm reading the back of the book.

And frankly, in a game about a country at war and dragons on the loose, they could do to stretch it out a bit. Do I trust Bethesda to stretch it out, without turning it into annoying fetch quests? No, not really. But I am a spoiled, asshole gamer, and I can dream.

And on that note, Parthaanax is a bro, and Skyrim is pretty much GOTY. Can't wait for the Creation Kit.

[Krylo]

Yeah, honestly the putting down Alduin thing, I didn't really mind the length that much, but the war aspect just felt rushed and weird. Like I took over all of Skyrim in, like, what? Six quests? Maybe 8? And a number of them were the same 'kill respawning soldiers at this fortress until the numbers have gone from 100 to 0' thing. The taking over the country thing was just really meh. At least I got nicknames after every mission, though.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

But, if you knew where you needed to go already, you could do the entire thing, not skipping, in an hour and some change.

Or about 10 minutes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1IRxTN-_kU). Though I'm guessing that involves the skipping.

[Marc v4.0]

Alduin went down in about ten seconds both times. Woo. Nice world-eating, bro.

The key point about that is Alduin isn't actually the Harbinger of the End Times, Just an insanely powerful Dragon that was forcibly misplaced through time cause your ancestors are morons who fucked about with a primal force of creation that even the gods of that world like to pretend don't exist. That said, you are the DRAGONBORN, it is sort of your deal to be able to Kill Dragons easily.

[Krylo]

Actually he is both a super powerful dragon and the harbinger of the end times. You can find books that talk about how he came about, and why he's called the devourer of souls and worlds and blah blah blah. Basically he's the manifestation of the hunger of the primordial serpent, much weakened by being kicked around and torn up a few times, but still there ready to, literally, devour everything. He was also the first of the dragons created by Akatosh because his creation was kind of a 'ripping the hunger out of this horrible world eating horror' thing.

Even Paarthanex heavily implies that not killing Alduin = World Ends/Is Eaten.

So yeah.

That said, I didn't have much of an issue with how easy he was. It was abundantly clear to me well before that fight that I had broken the system pretty badly with my +34% two handed damage boots, gauntlets, ring, and necklace with my daedric two handed sword 100 two-handed with all relevant perks (all the sword ones as that's what I used), and, with level cap being 50 and my being 47, probably severely over leveled for the encounter. Or, more succinctly, when Ancient Dragons were going down in around 4-6 power attacks, I didn't really expect the end boss to do much better than like 10.

I'm sure it's a much more satisfying fight if you aren't level 45+ with super enchanted equipment and shit.

Speaking of being lower leveled, though, I've decided to start a sneaky witch thief:

http://i42.tinypic.com/25qg00h.png
http://i41.tinypic.com/3asmt.png

I think I'm off to a good start!

...Now to avoid leveling until my magic skills are high enough to compensate for all the levels I no doubt have waiting for me with two 100 skills.

[EVILNess]

For those of you who are buying your alchemy, enchanting, and smithing skill ups from merchants there is a way to instantly restock a merchant.

1) Choose a merchant 2) Sell or buy anything 3) Save your game 4) Kill the merchant 5) Load the game

It works!

[Azisien]

The key point about that is Alduin isn't actually the Harbinger of the End Times, Just an insanely powerful Dragon that was forcibly misplaced through time cause your ancestors are morons who fucked about with a primal force of creation that even the gods of that world like to pretend don't exist. That said, you are the DRAGONBORN, it is sort of your deal to be able to Kill Dragons easily.

The fight itself wasn't the core of my complaint, however underwhelming it was, more that the lead up and context of the entire main quest was just, well, anemic. Me being Dragonborn didn't even have that much to do with it, I think Shadowmere could have killed Alduin. :P

Of course, anything might be anemic in the face of 80 hours of wandering around. Here, maybe this is another way of putting it. The Dark Brotherhood was far more interesting, quest-wise, to me. I felt like the quests that worked into assassinating the Emperor were great. It started feeling like a heist movie (except murder). The main quest felt like...learn I can shout, fetch a scroll, punch Alduin in the face, fairly pointless war council, watch a dragon get scripted into a trap, kill Alduin. Every element of the main quest feels like a cameo. What happened with the Thalmor? Why did the War in Skyrim storyline only intersect with the Dragons! storyline once?

It just...it could have been way more interesting. Yes, okay, Oblivion was more boring, but I maintain that's because Oblivion Gates suck and Dragons rule. It is clear to me the linear sections of stories aren't Bethesda's strong point, so they need to make a game like Skyrim, then toss it over to like, Obsidian, and Obsidian makes the main questline. Bam, perfect game.

[Arcanum]

That said, I didn't have much of an issue with how easy he was. It was abundantly clear to me well before that fight that I had broken the system pretty badly with my +34% two handed damage boots, gauntlets, ring, and necklace with my daedric two handed sword 100 two-handed with all relevant perks (all the sword ones as that's what I used), and, with level cap being 50 and my being 47, probably severely over leveled for the encounter. Or, more succinctly, when Ancient Dragons were going down in around 4-6 power attacks, I didn't really expect the end boss to do much better than like 10.

I'm sure it's a much more satisfying fight if you aren't level 45+ with super enchanted equipment and shit.

I was level 42ish when I fought Alduin, with no enchantments and all my perks into one-hand, blocking, heavy armor, and smithing, and my one-hand at 100. He still went down rather easily, in about a minute or two I believe. So he's still easy even with a vanilla enchantment-less character.

Screenshots

Did you just abuse the system until you leveled or did you use console commands? 'Cause I really hope you used console commands.

[Marc v4.0]

This is some pretty cool stuff (http://ppsh-41.tumblr.com/post/13145143504/entire-tamriel-landmass-built-into-skyrim)

[Azisien]

This is some pretty cool stuff (http://ppsh-41.tumblr.com/post/13145143504/entire-tamriel-landmass-built-into-skyrim)

That was awesome. Elder Scrolls VI: Tamriel would be a sweet, sweet thing. But, possibly too much workload for one developer in a reasonable timeframe/budget. Unless they add in more procedural generation of dungeons/quests/etc.

EDIT: I suppose it would not be unreasonable for some DLC to occur in other realms, though. The most logical explanation for the continuation of terrain for a while, though, is probably so the player doesn't see this blank wall at the edge of the playable map.

[Krylo]

Did you just abuse the system until you leveled or did you use console commands? 'Cause I really hope you used console commands.

For sneak I backstabbed Hadvar a bunch. He stays non aggressive, and you get one point of sneak per backstab up to like seventy, at which point it takes two, then three, and four for like the last ten. So it's pretty fast actually.

Pick pocketing I just reverse pickpocketed 100 gold onto and then off of someone, when that stopped giving a level per pickpocket, 200, etc.

Again, pretty fast.

I guess I could have used console commands but ehhhhhh.

[Arcanum]

Sooo instead of console magjicking yourself to max sneak and pickpocket you performed repetitive tasks to exploit your way to max levels? http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/image/629

[Azisien]

I heard it disables achievements! We can't have that!!

[Aldurin]

It doesn't actually.

[Bells]

Console commands are for making yourself bigger and summoning monsters into town!!

But 3 dragons already destroy the framerate....

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

Only time I use console commands is when I'm a walking pincushion consisting of arrows and ice lances. Got tired of looking for bow users to shoot me and force arrow fade. player.sexchange is convenient for that bug. Changes the body, but not the player's head. Is weird like that. No broken achievement get so far.

[Aldurin]

Even if console commands DO break achievements, I'm sure there's a console command to fix that.

But really we should blame Bethesda for making skill system that requires either derp-grinding ("Hey, let's see how many times I can kill my own summon!") or console commands to have a reasonable pace.

[Nikose Tyris]

The only thing I've grinded on was Smithing; My enchanting, destruction and restoration are advancing fairly smoothly and are keeping up with me, more or less [level 38, 71 destruction, 52 restoration, 100 smithing, 76 enchanting, poor as balls.]

[Krylo]

Sooo instead of console magjicking yourself to max sneak and pickpocket you performed repetitive tasks to exploit your way to max levels? Max skill in two totally useless skills as far as the main game is concerned. You never need to sneak and pick pocketing is useful for fucking around and that's about it. I'm pretty sure 200 skill points is only like level 10 or something too (still much higher than I'd want to be with 20 destro skill though).

http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/image/629

In a few ways.

Firstly: If I start using the console for things that aren't dealing with obnoxious bugs (move to for NPCs, TCL for getting caught on shit, etc.) it will be hard to stop using it to save time and avoid any effort in the game. By using an exploit that still requires some effort I keep myself from getting 'lazy'.

Secondly: Pickpocketing is basically impossible to increase in any other manner without f5/f9ing for hours or using the console. So fuck you game. I mean I COULD walk around stealing 20 gold and shitty jewelry from everyone in town, but I'd have to steal everything from everyone in town to see like 5-10 points of gain and then what? Move to the next town forever? And it's not like you'll ever use it more than 4-5 times during the course of normal game play.

Thirdly: Sneak is also basically impossible to train 'fairly'. At low levels of sneak it's nigh impossible to train it through normal means other than maybe bow sneak attacks, but bow sneak attacks give less experience than dagger ones, and require a number for each level, and pulling off dagger sneak attacks in normal gameplay is nearly impossible. Even with 100 Sneak without perks you will get seen roughly half the time trying to sneak up on anyone who is moving.

So it was either this, the console, or... cast muffle and walk around a guard barracks for an hour.

Fourthly: Where do you draw the line? How is pickpocketing someone repeatedly any different than buying out all the iron ore in Whiterun, forging it all into daggers, and then enchanting them all? Or buying the iron ore, changing it into silver and then gold with alteration magic, and then making jewelry and then enchanting that? Or different than making a shit ton of potions with every group of alchemical ingredients you get rather than just selling them? Or different than forcing yourself to only use magic at all times even though a lot of the time a simple sword and shield would be a lot better? Or different than casting healing spells after battle when you'll probably be healed by the next fight anyway? Or different than letting weaker enemies hit you so you can advance your armor skills? Should I just player.advskill smithing, alteration, alchemy, enchanting, destruction, and restoration, too?

At that point why don't I just advskill one handed, two handed, blocking, light armor, heavy armor etc. etc.?

The time cost of training skills is part of how the game is balanced. You can train basically any skill by doing things like this, the only thing that keeps everyone from doing it is the time involved, and when you just equate repetitive actions to console, well then you're at the point of why doesn't everyone just advskill everything and end up at level 81 during the tutorial scenario?

Really, you might have a point with Hadvar backstabbing being basically exploiting things (though he does attack you if do it while he sees you so maybe he's just really blind or something), but the pickpocketing is totally legit, and it's not like I couldn't have done something else that didn't involve poor Hadvar's back to train stealth. . . that would have been even more repetitive and probably gotten the same response.

[Arcanum]

Woah was not expecting such a massive reply. I wasn't really being serious with the "Is there really a difference" remark, I just wanted an excuse to post that comic.

About your sneak point though, I have sneak at around level 60 on my thief character, and that's just from sneak-bow attacks, sneaking around during thieves guild missions, dagger attacks, and sneaking into people's houses to feed on their blood (MtNswOMmmFw). And I've been getting sneak-dagger attacks since my sneak was around level 30. Although to be fair I had the +25% sneak from being a vampire.

I do agree with you about the pickpocketing though. That thing takes forever to level up normally.

[Krylo]

Yeah if people are standing still you can dagger sneak attack them relatively easily, but if they're walking, well, I still can't do it with 100 sneak. Not reliably, anyway. They almost always seem to turn just a little and then they catch a glimpse of me and welp. And there don't seem to be too many situations where I can walk up to someone who is just standing around in dungeons.

Not sure how much each skill point equals as far as the +25% for vampire, though. Same for things like lockpicking. I had a circlet with +25% lockpicking for awhile on my other character, and while it did seem to make things easier, it was pretty hard to tell how much easier compared to just getting some more points in lockpicking.

[Marc v4.0]

That was awesome. Elder Scrolls VI: Tamriel would be a sweet, sweet thing. But, possibly too much workload for one developer in a reasonable timeframe/budget. Unless they add in more procedural generation of dungeons/quests/etc.

EDIT: I suppose it would not be unreasonable for some DLC to occur in other realms, though. The most logical explanation for the continuation of terrain for a while, though, is probably so the player doesn't see this blank wall at the edge of the playable map.

Except much of that can't be seen at all. I am really curious to know why they included so much.

[Krylo]

Map guy finished early and got bored.

[Marc v4.0]

Tempted to see if I can locate about where Balmora is and squat there for old times sake

[Azisien]

Except much of that can't be seen at all. I am really curious to know why they included so much.

True, I saw a Youtube video of a guy no-clipping WAY farther than I had scrolled through in that link you posted earlier. Maybe they were just able to procedurally generate basic terrain and....uploaded a map of most of Tamriel?

They have said their DLC will be big, though. Expanding on the war quest and encompassing swathes of Tamriel would be incredible.

[Aldurin]

The DLCs will actually be Elder Scrolls VI and VII. Calling it now.

[Arcanum]

Why have a 3D map for the first time ever? Why have these large swathes of land that are not yet viewable on the map, yet clearly present in the game? Why have these geographic landmarks slightly scaled down? Why have a civil war quest that only points to a much larger war on the horizon?

The answer is simple my friends. Elder Scrolls the turn-based/real-time hybrid strategy game. You worked your way up the ranks of your chosen army, proven yourself a capable warrior, only now you must prove yourself as a capable tactician. Field armies! Garrison forts! Ambush convoys! Scout your enemy! Wage fierce battles! But what's that? The favor of battle is turning against you? Fear not, for you can dive right in and lead your army in person! Drive the Dominion back and return the world to the way it was. Or make sure the problem never happens again with an old-fashioned genocide. YOU DECIDE!

Somebody make this a mod.

[Aldurin]

I would prefer just having my original character be the army. I'd just need bigger AoE spells.

[EVILNess]

I would prefer just having my original character be the army. I'd just need bigger AoE spells.

Which is why I was so upset when the custom spell creation was taken out of the game.

[Aldurin]

Reminds me of how in Oblivion I made a weakass fireball spell with a large explosion, just for the fun of shoot at castles and all that because it looked cool.

[Azisien]

Why have a 3D map for the first time ever? Why have these large swathes of land that are not yet viewable on the map, yet clearly present in the game? Why have these geographic landmarks slightly scaled down? Why have a civil war quest that only points to a much larger war on the horizon?

The answer is simple my friends. Elder Scrolls the turn-based/real-time hybrid strategy game. You worked your way up the ranks of your chosen army, proven yourself a capable warrior, only now you must prove yourself as a capable tactician. Field armies! Garrison forts! Ambush convoys! Scout your enemy! Wage fierce battles! But what's that? The favor of battle is turning against you? Fear not, for you can dive right in and lead your army in person! Drive the Dominion back and return the world to the way it was. Or make sure the problem never happens again with an old-fashioned genocide. YOU DECIDE!

Somebody make this a mod.

Tamriel Total War, shipping early 2012.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Tamriel Total War, shipping early 2012.

I would totally play that.

[Ecks]

Not saying this would be a main series entry... but TES lends itself well to an MMO style of play. Instant MMO - just add players. My roommate and I have speculated on this and basically come to the conclusion that a fully fleshed out Tamriel wouldn't be a bad idea for a visit to the genre. Or at the very least allow for one to hook up to a server and play alongside others, I really don't mind either way. I just want to see the whole picture at once.

Sadly, the conversion to MMO would be highly catered to the casual MMO player market and severely dumbed down from the nuance and gameplay we've all come to appreciate.

[Aldurin]

And think about how much your computer would want to die from trying to render a dozen summons around 30 AoE spells while fighting 5 dragons.

[Azisien]

Large game world != fits the MMO genre, frankly. I mean, MMOs tend to need to be large since they're well, massive, but it's kind of a A->B but not B->A situation for me.

Most of the appeal of TES for me is that it's your story, your own personal novel even, however boring or epic or ridiculous you make it. MMOs benefit from more social features but they suffer horribly from you being Dragonborn #439548. Oh you put perks in Pickpocket? Lol nub.

So I'm pretty happy Bethesda stands strong and keeps TES singleplayer. At the same time, I could see some co-op features, to give the game a bit of a Fellowship of the Ring vibe. 2-8 players kind of deal perhaps.

[Arcanum]

Oh you put perks in Pickpocket? Lol nub.

Except for when you max out pickpocket you can steal from other players. Don't worry, it's not griefing or game-breaking, it's realism.

But yeah if Elder Scrolls gets co-op (even just 2 player co-op) I would probably shit my pants in excitement. Literally.

[Krylo]

Not saying this would be a main series entry... but TES lends itself well to an MMO style of play. Instant MMO - just add players. My roommate and I have speculated on this and basically come to the conclusion that a fully fleshed out Tamriel wouldn't be a bad idea for a visit to the genre. .

http://i39.tinypic.com/f39g61.png

[Arcanum]

http://i39.tinypic.com/f39g61.png

I tried clicking that and was disappointed when nothing happened.

[Pip Boy]

Being a single hero in a world of turmoil where you can make a difference is a great basis for a roleplaying game.

Being one of 1,000,000 heroes in a world of turmoil where nothing you do matters is a great basis for an MMO.

They may look similar at a glance, but they don't mix.

[Aldurin]

When you get to that amount of players, granting them any amount of influence on the world will tear it to shreds within hours. Hence why Elder Scrolls could not really do well like that.

[Krylo]

Not only that, but there's the gameplay aspects as well.

There's a reason you don't see many 'action' MMOs. That reason is because lag really fucks with the ability to, say, dodge things. Or connect reliably. Or do a lot of other things that happen in Elder Scrolls games. There's a reason that those that do have action elements tend to be 'instanced' so it's not much difference than playing on an official Modern Warfare or TF2 server. Which is that when you get a large enough server/enough people on a large enough map, LAG HAPPENS. It happens hard.

The very play mechanics themselves would be untenable in a massively multiplayer environment.

[Kim]

Oh my god this is the best (http://www.twitvid.com/MCYYZ)

[Ecks]

http://i39.tinypic.com/f39g61.png

and krylo with the fucking haymaker

Just noting some interesting parallels, is all. I know full well the kind of ass jockeys that play MMOs these days, and sadly, as I noted at the end of my post, a lot of TES' charm would be lost in the transition. Ergo, bad idea.

Now, on topic with something fun and Skyrim related.

Or maybe not so fun, I don't really know, whatever. Running a Nord Heir of Dovahkiin with the Hammerkind Strife Specibus. Pretty much enjoying beating down wolves and pathetic bandits with my Superior Dwarven Warhammer, enjoying the shit out of smithing. Thinking about running another character, perhaps a female something or other with a balance of one-handed skills and magicka. Can anyone offer any advice on which schools have cool toys/lend themselves to survivability as a mage? I literally have nothing better to do with my time (Turkey Day notwithstanding) until Saturday 11am EST when TOR will call my name for another glorious beta weekend.

[Krylo]

From what I can gather there are basically two ways to play a mage:

The first is conjuring and letting your conjured creatures tank for you while you burninate everything. The second is learning alteration and keeping yourself buffed into survivability.

Though magic doesn't negatively affect armor or vice versa, so if you wanted to go less traditional mage route you could just wear heavy armor and enchant it with the same enchants light armor usually comes with.

Also: Great Sword > Warhammers.

[Ecks]

I'm basically using a warhammer because EVERYONE I bump into who plays Skyrim is using either a Greatsword or a Waraxe, and I have to be the special snowflake with my unique thing that I like to do.

Even though the warhammer animations are essentially just the waraxe animations, which kills immersion slightly when you're sticking your hammer head into a saber cat's mouth and it makes a cutting noise

[Arcanum]

doBGglOUOiE

[Arcanum]

Ok I don't know if this is because my sneak skill is getting pretty high (it's like 73ish) or because I'm using boots with a muffle enchantment, the game being weird, or some combination of the three, but there have been multiple times where I'm crouched five feet away from someone, and they're looking right at me, and I'm still hidden. So far the best/worst time this happened was when I was sneaking into a forsworn camp, and as I crept into a ruined tower I heard someone say "Hey there" in a casual tone. I turn and there's a forsworn, leaning against a wall, looking right at me. I thought the guy was passive for some reason, so I stood up, and then he unsheathed his weapon and tried to maul me.

In other news I finished up the Dark Brotherhood quests and I agree with what I've been hearing; the quest line is indeed awesome, and probably my favorite so far. Although it is a little annoying when I'm crouched and hidden, and kill a target with a single arrow in a city, and then every guard knows that I'm the murderer, and they know exactly where I am.

[Krylo]

Arrows make noise.

You have to be standing well enough away from other people that the noise and/or glancing in the direction the arrow came from won't reveal you.

[Aldurin]

Would having the silent casting perk when you rape someone with a destruction spell work better than sniping in terms of not getting caught?

[Arcanum]

Arrows make noise.

You have to be standing well enough away from other people that the noise and/or glancing in the direction the arrow came from won't reveal you.

I was completely out of sight from any guards or civilians, behind a house I believe, in Riften, when I killed that Gaius fellow for the Dark Brotherhood and the detection-eye-reticule instantly snapped open to detected and the guards homed in on me. Meanwhile I've made much closer proximity stealth shots in bandit camps, and the eye only opens half-way and they start to run to where I made the shot from.

It's nothing horrible, just a minor annoyance. Although since the Brotherhood quests have gotten my bounty up in a few holds I am now going to go on a rampant murder spree to get that bounty achievement. Only I need a serial killer gimmick. Any suggestions?

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Would having the silent casting perk when you rape someone with a destruction spell work better than sniping in terms of not getting caught?

I just unlocked silent casting myself. Used it to fireball a couple of skeletons. There was only a slight widening of the stealth eye, though they were a bit of a distance from me. Duno how it works on other enemies or if they can see where it came from if they're closer yet. I shall experiment more.

It might be easier though to just silent cast calm on everyone and then fireball them. Or silent cast calm, summon a bow, then shoot them point blank in the head from behind, to get the crit bonus without the chance of them avoiding when they hear it fire.

EDIT; Further testing reveals that yes, silent casting is effective alongside destruction. Enemies will still get alerted by the impact sounds, and start looking around for you, but they don't immediately go full alert and trying to kill you. This has just made my sneaky mage even more effective. It's more awesome when combined with the Muffle, Detect Life and Bound weapons though, as I can now properly sneak around, seeing through walls, pulling off any spell I need at a moments notice without fear of alerting anyway.

[Red Fighter 1073]

Just got the game and holy shit do I kind of wish I had gotten this for PC just so that I could have taken a screenshot of something that happened to me.

I was completing the Main Quest mission where you have to climb the 7,000 steps to get to High Hrothgar and along the way, I saw this pilgrim, so I figured "Eh why not stop and talk to her for a quick second..." So I walk up to her and I start hearing the Skyrim orchestral music and I'm thinking "Well, that's a little weird", but I made no more attention to it. I keep walking to the pilgrim, press A, and lo and behold, RIGHT BEHIND THE PILGRIM, there's a dragon standing right there, just about to blast me with it's icy breath. As soon as I stop talking to the pilgrim, it blasts me with ice, I try fighting it and to add insult to injury, when my health got pretty low, it didn't just ice breath me. It literally chomped me up in one of those Fallout-style kill animations -.-

At least I can rest easy knowing that I killed three of its siblings...

[Krylo]

I was completely out of sight from any guards or civilians, behind a house I believe, in Riften, when I killed that Gaius fellow for the Dark Brotherhood and the detection-eye-reticule instantly snapped open to detected and the guards homed in on me. Meanwhile I've made much closer proximity stealth shots in bandit camps, and the eye only opens half-way and they start to run to where I made the shot from.

It's nothing horrible, just a minor annoyance. Although since the Brotherhood quests have gotten my bounty up in a few holds I am now going to go on a rampant murder spree to get that bounty achievement. Only I need a serial killer gimmick. Any suggestions?

Are you sure you were completely out of sight of any guards? Because there's a lot that wander around the ONLY places he stands still in Riften. Especially in the early morning hours when they're all moving to their posts. There's one that comes out from an alley outside of/by wall to the left of the castle (if you're facing it), one who does the same on the right, one who stands in front of the temple of Mara which is just down the street from him, and one who wanders down that same street toward the merchant stalls.

That said I ended up chopping him because I had no archery skill when I did that and without archery perks one shotting him, even from stealth, with a bow just isn't really possible (maybe if you had max pickpocketing and stole all his armor first).

But, like, the one before that at the wedding, it took about four or five tries to find a spot where I could shoot the bride on that balcony without the guards being alerted, but it was entirely possible. Same goes for every other Dark Brotherhood assassination. And this is playing with a character who topped out, after doing all of them, at about 30 stealth. And who had never used a bow before or after them.

[Nikose Tyris]

That wedding assassination was public and beautiful.

[Krylo]

The wedding one is pretty funny if you manage to do it unseen, as the argonian still shows up and starts drawing attention to himself during the whole panic after.

[Arcanum]

At the time I had a ring and amulet giving +25% bow damage and a superior glass bow (with +60% dmg from perks) plus the x3 stealth bonus, so one-shotting him with a bow wasn't all that hard.

As for the wedding, I just stood in the middle of the aisle and shot her. Didn't even bother to hide 'cause I looked around and thought "whelp it's gonna be hassle to find a hiding spot, might as well make this as public as possible." As soon as I released the arrow I activated the Shadow Cloak of Nocturnal and slipped out of the city unseen.

[Melfice]

Hey, out of curiosity.
I'm a werewolf, right? Am I screwed out of Dawnbreaker? (Meridia's Deadric artifact)

Seeing as she's all "Fuck y'alls necromancers and undead", I figure I am. Moreso since she won't talk at the shrine, but that could also be due to a level requirement, so I might as well ask here.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I just did her quest last night Mel and I'm a werewolf. I don't think they honestly care about specifics. Boethia wanted me to kill everyone silently, I didn't, still passed the quest.

I then immediately turned against Boethia and killed that priest dude for Malog. So yeah. Duno why you're not hearing her speak though.

The only quest I've apparantly screwed up for myself is something to do with Sven, since I killed him.

I also got reprimanded on the Thieves Guild quest for destroying 4 beehives instead of 3. Bastards didn't give me my cut!

[DarkDrgon]

I locked myself out of the Gauldur's Amulet quest by doing the "last" one first. Now I can't get the best neck item I've found so far :/

[Melfice]

Eh... I found Gauldur's Amulet somewhat disappointing.
Fair enough, I wasn't playing a magic user when I finished that quest, but still.
Signed up for the College of Winterhold, just to finish the quest.

Humorously, a dragon appeared during the grand tour of the College.

EDIT: Wait... I think I'm mistaken with another amulet.
Yeah, Gauldur's is pretty good.
Though I'm sticking to my Talos amulet. 20% cooldown reduction on Shouts? Yes, please!

EDIT AGAIN: Re: Meridia's quest. It's got a level requirement. Didn't meet it when I first went to her shrine.

[Krylo]

Gauldurs is pretty lame. 30 health, stamina, and magicka isn't nearly as good as spell cost reduction, damage increases, or really pretty much anything you can put on a necklace yourself.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I started off with the Talos amulet, then I had a magic regen one, but I've been using Gauldars for a while now. My regen is already through the roof, and the shouts I use most regen fairly quickly anyway, so scraping a couple of seconds off isn't really worth it.

And seeing as most of my level up buffs go into magicka now, I need extra health and stamina more than other stuff. Cost reductions aren't really worth it either, seeing as stuff is pretty cheap to cast right now.

[DarkDrgon]

I'd be cooler with it if I had been locked out due to some kind of Story decision, but I just went dungeon crawling and happened onto the Final tomb, murdered everything inside, and now the 2 other amulets won't spawn.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

You sure it's locked out? Because I think you can do the tombs in any order, and then you have to take them to the final location to get them reforged.

[DarkDrgon]

I was doing the mage college quest where you find the eye of magnus, and the fragment wasn't on him. the wiki says thats common

[Krylo]

If you're on computer type ~ to bring up the console, then type Help Gaulder 0.

Then page up/page down until you find the fragments you're missing, look at the code for them, and player.additem (code) 1.

Edit: And considering reductions can make casting entirely free, I have trouble believing 30 health would ever be worth it in comparison.

[Melfice]

Sure, enchanting your own stuff is better, in that you can precisely tailor to your play-style.
On the other hand, 30 points in health, stamina and magicka is pretty damned good for an amulet that's a reward from a quest. Futhermore, that's three enchantments on a single item, where you'd need three items (or two with the appropriate perk) to achieve the same feats.

As for usefulness? If your character is never going to use magic, the magicka boost is "wasted", but for every character the health and stamina is helpful.

In short: There's always more useful effects you can enchant yourself, if you've the skill.
At relative low level, or no skill in enchantment, Gauldur's Bling-bling is pretty good.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Yeah it essentially acts like 9 level up buffs. Really though I could do with putting more time into actually levelling smithing and enchanting, but I just keep getting distracted by quests and my "to enchant later" loot pile keeps growing out of control to the point where it's gona be a massive effort to sort it all out and sell it on for a profit.

I'm sitting on a horde of stolen/looted jewelery and ebony/glass weapons, with more ingots and soul gems than I can count now.

[Arcanum]

I'm sitting on a horde of stolen/looted jewelery and ebony/glass weapons, with more ingots and soul gems than I can count now.

I know the feeling. I'm constantly tempted to put perks into speech simply so I can invest in someone so I can dump more loot on them at once.

[Azisien]

Are there any merchants with much more than 3000 gold with Master Trader? That's the highest I ever found, not that I searched tirelessly or anything. But Lanfear was starting to routinely find daedric armor worth 4-5k, which is a fairly big loss.

Not that gold is an issue. They need more stuff to spend gold on.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I need to go buy more houses just so I don't have such massive amounts of excess cash any more. I currently have 110k. That's real walking around money.

God knows what I'll have by the time I turn all my gold, silver and gemstones into jewelery, and then enchant that jewelery for sale. I also have tons of ingots for armours I can't smith, particularly dwarven stuff, got about 200 ingots of that stuff after a single scrounge in 1 Dwemer dungeon. And I ran out of room to completely clean it all out.

I might go buy all the spelltomes again and kit out a fantastic personal library somewhere. And buy all the ingredients from everywhere, just so I have the supplies to make whatever potions are best.

[DarkDrgon]

I'm on the PS3 and level 13, so yeah kind of a big buff for now. I just started enchanting, and its really not worth it right now.

Loot... I have so much of it!! filled my room at the college already and the main thng pushing me to beat the quest line is to get the arch mages room

[Krylo]

On the other hand, 30 points in health, stamina and magicka is pretty damned good for an amulet that's a reward from a quest.Not really. I mean, for use, yeah, but only because it's an amulet and you don't really get many of those that aren't garbage from quests. But then most amulets that have effects can be DE'd to put them on other pieces of equipment (usually more powerfully).

Then again, I'm pretty sure Savos Aren's amulet is better right out the gate, anyway. If you're a mage.

Futhermore, that's three enchantments on a single item, where you'd need three items (or two with the appropriate perk) to achieve the same feats.Yeah, but not GOOD ones.

As for usefulness? If your character is never going to use magic, the magicka boost is "wasted", but for every character the health and stamina is helpful.Mages don't need stamina, warriors don't need magicka, and if you're a warrior you're going to have multiple hundreds of hp and stamina rendering 30 extra points pretty meh, and as a mage you'll have a similarly retarded amount of magicka and magicka regen, so the only useful thing the amulet does is the HP. Whiiiich you can just fortify an amulet with yourself and probably get more than 30 points.



At relative low level, or no skill in enchantment, Gauldur's Bling-bling is pretty good.I guess.

Also, on enchanting for mages: Learn Transmute (alteration spell), buy out all the iron ore in White Run (or whatever town you are in). Transmute it all to gold. Smith them into gold rings. Buy all the petty soul gems you can from faranar (and anyone else if you want to travel the world buying them). F5. Kill Faranar. Reload. Do it again. Until you are out of money. Then enchant as many rings as you can. Sell them back to faranar, buy petty gems again, etc. etc. 100 Enchanting and plenty of alteration.

For warriors or people who don't want to transmute: Buy all iron ore again, but just make it into a shit ton of daggers straight off, and then go enchant them as before.

[Aldurin]

Started playing my two-handed build, everything has gone smoothly up to wandering over to the dragon's nest north of the Necromancer's Stone.

I just felt it was pretty bullshit that at level 11 I could easily kill the dragon there but then got my ass handed to me once I got close enough to wake up the priest. I understand that there should be a difficulty difference between the two, but it was pretty severe in this case.

[Solid Snake]

I was foolish enough to purchase both the PS3 and the PC versions; I had higher hopes the PS3 version wouldn't be so horribly bugged with lag issues and large save files and whatnot. On the bright side, the PC version looks incredible on my new PS3, it really is a massive graphical difference on Ultra.

I was even more foolish to attempt to play a pure Destruction mage build on the PS3. Uuuuggghhhh. I am so squishy. I die so easily. To just about everything. And with the lag issues the PS3 controls aren't always as responsive as I'd prefer.

...Any recommendations for solid builds for my new PC character? I'm thinking of going for some warrior build, but I'm not sure I want to play an Orc (actually, all of the non-human races look ridiculous to me. I chose a Breton instead of a High Elf for my PS3 character because, the elves just look weeeird.)

[Krylo]

I rolled a Nord warrior for my first character. Two handed, heavy armor.

I destroyed all that crossed my path with great swings of my massive blade.

[Azisien]

You don't have to be Orc to make a fine warrior. Redguards and Imperials make fine warriors.

Though dominating with a Destruction mage on the PC is pretty...straightforward. Never trained health once, and while I did have a squishy period, that's why you dabble in Conjuration a little, or bring along tank companions.

[Krylo]

Speaking of tank companions: None of the companions level up with you, apparently (I find no reason to doubt this information as companions do suck more and more as time goes on). This can be fixed through use of the console but I can't remember the command right now (and it makes a new, leveled, version of the companion, and you must then kill their weaker predecessor. Blood for the blood god, etc. etc.).

[Arcanum]

the PC version looks incredible on my new PS3, it really is a massive graphical difference on Ultra.

If that's not a typo then: Whaaaaat???

...Any recommendations for solid builds for my new PC character? I'm thinking of going for some warrior build, but I'm not sure I want to play an Orc (actually, all of the non-human races look ridiculous to me. I chose a Breton instead of a High Elf for my PS3 character because, the elves just look weeeird.)

Nord's a good choice because early game your battlecry can give you an edge in a fight when you're outnumbered. Later in the game though enemies resist the fear effect more easily. However the natural 50% frost resist makes fighting frost dragons and any frost-using mage super easy.

You could also make a Breton warrior, since the magical resistance will help you tank mages and dragons (since fire and frost are considered magic damage I believe). Your warrior skills will just be a little lower from the start.

I'd give more advice on the other races but I don't know what their unique traits are.

As for your skills/perks it's all about preference since both one-hand+shield and two-handed are viable options. Though having a shield will give you more survivability and you'll spend more time exchanging blows, whereas a two-hand is all about killing things in as few hits as possible and before they can hurt you back.

You should definitely put points into smithing though, since crafting your own weapons and armor is easier than finding them, and upgrading them is a huuuuuge help.

[Arcanum]

Speaking of tank companions: None of the companions level up with you, apparently (I find no reason to doubt this information as companions do suck more and more as time goes on). This can be fixed through use of the console but I can't remember the command right now (and it makes a new, leveled, version of the companion, and you must then kill their weaker predecessor. Blood for the blood god, etc. etc.).

That would explain how after 30 levels of traveling with Lydia I was starting to kill her with a single accidental hit while she wasn't even kneeling on the ground.

[Solid Snake]

Though dominating with a Destruction mage on the PC is pretty...straightforward. Never trained health once, and while I did have a squishy period, that's why you dabble in Conjuration a little, or bring along tank companions.

I have Lydia and Meeko as companions and boy, is Lydia worthless. You can't go anywhere remotely off-road; she'll refuse to follow. And she too often switches to her Bow which is useless alongside a magic build. Meeko wins major brownie points for actually keeping up with me and being marginally more useful in combat, but manages to lose them all in Towns because HE WON'T SHUT UP, HE JUST KEEPS ON BARKING AND WHINING.

As for Conjuration, I have a terrible record on the PS3 of not being able to cast the damn spell in time. My preset is duel-Destruction spells (both hands) and I have to manually swap out to Quick Healing and swap back and it's a pain. If there's a PS3 hotkey equivalent I haven't learned it yet.

The lag doesn't help, though, nor the fact that I basically decided to explore all of Skyrim after finishing only two or three sidequests, which increased the size of my Save File and caused the PS3 lag problem to kick in when I'm only at Level Seven. Bethesda y u no fix that

[Solid Snake]

If that's not a typo then: Whaaaaat???

...I meant my new Desktop PC, yeah.

I got a new sucker with a Radeon 6870 and a 3.3 ghz i5 Intel processor

It can play Skyrim on "High" level settings perfectly, on Ultra with Maximum modified settings there's the tiniest bit of lag when exploring but the lag is substantially less than the PS3 version and the graphics are far better than the PS3's. Hell, even in the High level settings are far better than the PS3's.

Really, the only thing I miss about the PS3 is the controller, I hate using the keyboard and mouse.

[Arcanum]

I know Skyrim supports a 360 controller with the standard drivers (I left mine plugged in when I booted it up once) so you could try plugging in your PS3 controller and see what happens. Might need to download some drivers or something (I think there's something that lets you use a ps3 controller like it's a 360 controller, since most pc games are compatible with that), but I'm sure it's doable.

[Krylo]

We've discussed how to use a PS3 controller on a PC (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=40577&highlight=controller) here before. Just so Snake can find everything he needs, if he wants to go that route.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

As for Conjuration, I have a terrible record on the PS3 of not being able to cast the damn spell in time. My preset is duel-Destruction spells (both hands) and I have to manually swap out to Quick Healing and swap back and it's a pain. If there's a PS3 hotkey equivalent I haven't learned it yet.

There is, you hold down left or right on the D-pad to hotkey the spell. I have Fireballs and Fast Healing hotkeyed and only ever dual wield my spells. Two presses of a direction switches both hands.

You still have to go into the menu list to select other things, but so long as you don't favourite every spell and you remember your list it's fairly simple.

[Solid Snake]

There is, you hold down left or right on the D-pad to hotkey the spell. I have Fireballs and Fast Healing hotkeyed and only ever dual wield my spells. Two presses of a direction switches both hands.


Good to know.
(Though right now I've recently started a PC Imperial Jack-of-all-Trades character who kicks major ass and has taken precedent over my PS3's Breton Mage. For irony's sake, my Imperial character is totally joining the Stormcloaks, too.)

PC version is beautiful, even without Mods. I'm a huge console gamer and I usually prefer owning titles on the PS3 because I prefer plopping my ass down on the couch and seeing things run on a larger TV, but Skyrim's PC version just plays like a completely different game.

Question about follower leveling: It was mentioned that followers don't level up alongside the player. Do they not level up as of the moment you initially meet them, or the moment you actually recruit them? I might deliberately hold off on finishing the Companion Quests for a while because I really want Aela to be an effective partner in crime.

The degree of variation among the various Holds is quite stellar, although I do wish Bethesda put as much time and effort into a few of the Holds as they put into The Rift.

Oh, and I'm utterly indecisive when it comes to selecting Skills. I think I've only selected 2 Skills with my Level 9 PC character so far.

So, the crucial 64,000 question: Who did everyone marry? In the PS3 version I married Sylgja, the miner at Shor's Stone. (In the PC version, I haven't decided yet.)

[Nikose Tyris]

Married Ysolda from Whiterun.

If you're on the PC, you should just console-adjust your partner in crime's level to match yours.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I'm undecided on marriage yet. I don't use companions so no point choosing anyone who can follow me, but I also have huge amounts of cash so marrying a shopkeeper type to bring in extra income is also slightly pointless. I'll probably go with either Ysolda or Muiri though, can't decide which, and I need to actually do the Brotherhood missions before Muiri becomes available I think, but I'm trying to finish up the Thieves Guild stuff first.

I also want a new house first to move into, because Lydia sitting in my bedroom all day would be creepy as fuck once I'm married.

[Marc v4.0]

because Lydia sitting in my bedroom all day would be creepy as fuck once I'm married.

prude

[DarkDrgon]

I think something went wrong. I'm level 15 (barely) and am now the Arch Mage. I really don't wanna go on to the main quests yet, any recommendations on where to go next?

(oh, and I fixed the Galdur thing. I went to the third dungeon anyway, just to do it, and got the piece, then went back to the eye of magnus dungeon and the last fragment was just sitting on the floor)

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I just got to the end of the Thieves Guild quests and I've run into a problem; I really don't want to give back the Skeleton Key, as it's essentially an unbreakable pick, but I still want to finish the questline. I'm guessing there's no way to keep it is there?

[Inbred Chocobo]

There isn't a way to keep the key. You either complete the quests and give it back, or don't and keep it yourself. You can also I believe just not pick a lock using it, and where it would break, it won't, but still give you points towards lockpick, so you could cheat it to max level and then get the perk for no lockpicks break at all and then give it back.

EDIT: Nope, I was wrong, you only get experience for a lockpick that breaks, so no easy 100 lockpicking there

[Arcanum]

I just got to the end of the Thieves Guild quests and I've run into a problem; I really don't want to give back the Skeleton Key, as it's essentially an unbreakable pick, but I still want to finish the questline. I'm guessing there's no way to keep it is there?

If they gave you the skeleton key then there wouldn't be a reason for there to be a perk that gives you unbreakable picks. Personally I haven't put a single point into lockpicking and I can pick Master locks with, at most, 10 broken picks. And I always have over 100 picks on me since they are so damn cheap. So breaking a pick is a non-issue for me.

But I can see why having the skeleton key would be nice, since you can just brute force your way to opening the lock without having to worry about remembering that precise location to move the pick to when dealing with a Master lock.

But yeah your choices are don't finish the quest line to keep the skeleton key and not have access to the Nightingale powers, or finish it the quest and lose the key and get some neat daily powers.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Yeah I mean I have nearly 200 picks myself now anyway, it would have just been convenient to keep it. The powers you get aren't really all that great though, Subterfuge I'm guessing is just like Illusion magic, Strife isn't really that great, hopefully the stealth one is a bit more useful, especially seeing as I'm probably going to go on a massive crime spree at some point through every city.

EDIT; Also, who the hell do you sell the Right Eye of the Falmer too? Delvin took one of them for the full price, but I'm still left with the other and I can only sell it for around 900 ish despite it being worth 2.5k.

I want my moneys worth!

[Krylo]

Stealth nightingale power + muffle = you are a ghost even if you don't have a single point of sneak.

[Arcanum]

I think the Right Eye you are allowed to do whatever you want with it. It's subject to standard trade rules, so every merchant will buy it at a reduced cost. Personally I have it on display in my house. Nothing says rich bastard like an over-sized gemstone sitting on the dinner table next to some diamonds.

And yeah the stealth nightingale power is amazing since it lasts for 2 minutes. I currently have the shadow stone on my thief character in addition to that nightingale power, so that's 3 minutes of invisibility which is just plain ridiculous.

[Krylo]

It also automatically puts you back into invisibility when you crouch again for those two minutes. So you can pop in and out of stealth at your leisure during that time.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Yeah I've thrown the Eye back on to the pile of my ever increasing horde of random treasures, which just got even more massive due to me turning 30 iron ores into gold and then making as many jewel filled amulets and rings as I could, which threw my smithing up about 20 levels in 5 minutes.

I think this must be a side effect of being a Dragonborn, I'm even hording like a dragon now.

[Melfice]

Not that this is interesting to you guys, but I think I've figured out the genealogy of my Elder Scrolls characters.

There was the Imperial Melfice Silesia, who turned out to be the Nerevarine.
Then came the Nord Melfice Silesius, who acquired several of the artefacts key in defeating Mehrunes Dagon before getting lost in Sheogorath's realm of the Shivering Isles, allowing the eventual Champion of Cyrodiil to basically steal his thunder. (Never finished either quests in Oblivion...)

Melfice Silesius is related to Melfice Silesia in that both their ancestors came from the tiny island of Siles, up near Atmora*. There may be a blood relation, but it's unclear.

Melfice Silesius, Imperial, turns out to be the Dragonborn and is related to, and named after, the Nord Melfice Silesius.

His flesh is Nord, his blood Imperial, and his spirit Dragon.
That's some crossbreeding there.


* Shut up. There totally is an island called Siles up there now.

[Ecks]

I like that you have a lineage built up around your characters. Wish I could say the same, Oblivion couldn't hold my attention so my Nord faded away into obscurity, don't even remember the fool's name.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Well, the game's finally done it, and by that I mean started hitting me with glitches which are now thouroughly pissing me off. I could deal with the occasional lag forcing me to restart, or the suddenly lack of textures on my Morokei mask leaving my character without a face forcing me to make a save and then immediately reload that save, but today I hit the fucking mother load;

Did some missions and then wanted to wait until nightfall. Game crashes. Fine, no problem, reload the autosave and try again, game crashes again. Reload again and try only waiting half the time after walking off and trying it elsewhere. Game crashes again. Give up and come back on several hours later, only to find it's erased the fucking autosave I was loading up perfectly fine 3 times previously, and now I have to do everything again, go to wait, game crashes.

Fuck you Skyrim, fuck you.

[Melfice]

I'm guilty of not doing this as well, but common sense dictates that you immediately make a proper save after restoring from an autosave, and for crash testing an extra save.

But, like I said, I keep forgetting myself, so... yeah.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Just done it again. Luckily I saved beforehand this time. But at this point I'm pretty much unable to use the wait function at all. I'm blaming it on the recent "patch", I never had even a single crash before that.

[Grimpond]

Weird. I havent been having any problems at all, unless you count dumb AI (a well known feature!)

[Aldurin]

unless you count dumb AI (a well known feature!)

bfIiaaDkeyk

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

So I only just realised the expert spells have started showing up for sale at the College. Must start spawning there when your level is high enough. I am slightly disspointed with the expert destruction spells though, is it just me or are they just not as good as the previous level? They all seem to cost 3 times as much (with 90 Destruction and the perk), only do about 30 points more damage, and don't have the extra benefits of exploding, jumping to other targets, or hitting multiple enemies and dealing damage over time.

Am I missing somethere here or what?

[Azisien]

Well I found Chain Lightning annoying because of how indiscriminate it is. However, you're right, the spell damage to mana cost plateaus. This is a good thing, though ascending to godhood would be good too (just...different). You can look at it this way, it means Adept level Destruction spells still have a use, in fights where your magicka can't maintain Thunder Bolt for infinity.

Of course there is the aesthetic. I thought Thunder Bolt was prettier. And then I can hear echoes of Lt. Surge in my head going "Raichu, Thunderbolt!"

[Nikose Tyris]

360 console patch dropped.

My weapon racks and displays still don't fucking work. I just had my gallbladder out, I thought Bethesda was doing something nice for me.

Woulda been nice. :(

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Well I found Chain Lightning annoying because of how indiscriminate it is. However, you're right, the spell damage to mana cost plateaus. This is a good thing, though ascending to godhood would be good too (just...different). You can look at it this way, it means Adept level Destruction spells still have a use, in fights where your magicka can't maintain Thunder Bolt for infinity.

Of course there is the aesthetic. I thought Thunder Bolt was prettier. And then I can hear echoes of Lt. Surge in my head going "Raichu, Thunderbolt!"

Yeah, I suppose chain lightning can get annoying, especially when you've got Atronachs or other summons in the area too (I don't use companions so no worry there). In fact it seems all the adept spells have AoE effects, so maybe the expert stuff is primarily for just damaging singular opponents, or the odd time when you do have allies running around (would have come in handy earlier when a dragon attacked and some guards got in the way and took some fireball damage, then made me pay up despite having just saved their miserable lives).

I was just expecting a bit more out of spells at this level so I was quite dissapointed, it seems I've been building up this godlike mage character for nothing now. Hopefully the master spells rectify the problem a bit.


360 console patch dropped.

My weapon racks and displays still don't fucking work. I just had my gallbladder out, I thought Bethesda was doing something nice for me.

Woulda been nice. :(

I've noticed more problems since the patch than there were before it, and all the problems that existed before are still here. Now I crash on waiting (and the latest psn update now runs corruption detection scans every time it does so, making crashes even more annoying) and can only accelerate time by travelling to another city and back again, bookshelves eat my books or won't let me take books off them and put others on instead, doors won't unlock despite me having the key to my own house and mannequins won't load up textures. Oh and I somehow restarted a quest I've already completed, simply by reading about it again.

And my masks textures still glitch out and vanish, meaning I have to save and reload. Yeah, many, many little problems that are really bugging me now.

[Azisien]

Yeah, I suppose chain lightning can get annoying, especially when you've got Atronachs or other summons in the area too (I don't use companions so no worry there). In fact it seems all the adept spells have AoE effects, so maybe the expert stuff is primarily for just damaging singular opponents, or the odd time when you do have allies running around (would have come in handy earlier when a dragon attacked and some guards got in the way and took some fireball damage, then made me pay up despite having just saved their miserable lives).

I was just expecting a bit more out of spells at this level so I was quite dissapointed, it seems I've been building up this godlike mage character for nothing now. Hopefully the master spells rectify the problem a bit.

Mmmm I'm not going to lie, you might come out disappointed. I love and hate the Master spells, but what I can say about them is as far as practical spells go, it ends at Expert.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Well that sucks to hear. Why would they nerf the higher level stuff? That's stupid. Guess it's too late to change now, I'm already too invested in the magic schools.

I might make a heavy armour 2 handed dude next, with smithing and enchanting on the side, see if that works out any better.

[Krylo]

That works out as an unstoppable death machine.

[Ecks]

I opted to start enchanting early on this build (sword and shield nord Valkyrie type chick) and I am tearing shit apart easier than I did with my hammer guy.

[batgirl]

Deadric Armor + Dragonplate Helm, Gauntlets and Boots + Ebony mace + all smithed to legendary = Badass me!

[Melfice]

Hmm...
Ran into an interesting bug.

Whenever I fast travel, a horse spawns next to me.
Now, I haven't bought a horse. Never stolen one. Took one from the stables near Riften (they are unowned. You can just ride them) but this one looks completely different from the Riften horses, and I haven't even done the Dark Brotherhood.

I'm not complaining, but still. A bug's a bug.

[Krylo]

If you take one from somewhere it'll follow you around awhile if it's in the same cell as you. Eventually it'll bugger off, though, and you'll be sad you lost your free horse.

Looking different is probably just something to do with the textures being reloaded after a save or something as it's just a random horse.

It IS still a bug, though.

[Melfice]

I thought I'd written this down, but the free horse from Riften died.
Actually, ANY free horse I've ever taken died. (I'm the most responsible horse owner)

Whatevs.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

The only times I've used horses were when their previous owners had died. First was when I was crossing a mountain during a blizzard and found a bandit dead with a stolen horse nearby. I'm guess he was caught out in the storm.

Second time I met a wandering hunter and we were discussing her wares when a dragon swooped down behind her. Hunters can't whirlwind sprint, so she didn't last long, but the horse somehow did. Both times though the horses kept trying to walk all the way back to where the previous owners had died, making them kinda useless if you ever stopped and dismounted.

[Azisien]

Shadowmere is the only acceptable method of equine transportation as far as I am concerned.

Though, this will pose a problem for my eventual good-spirited, Skyrim-freeing Nord, as he will likely wipe out the Dark Brotherhood. Are there no levelled "good" horses in the game?

[CABAL49]

The Dark Brotherhood are neither good nor evil. They simply are. Plus killing the Emperor is good for the freedom of Skyrim.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Goddamnit my new wife is stupid. She keeps sleeping on the floor of the spare room in the basement of my Solitude house. Now I can't get the bonus.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

In terms of willing and malicious intent the dark brotherhood is pretty damn tame compared to the Thieves guild.

Just saying.

[Azisien]

The Dark Brotherhood are neither good nor evil. They simply are. Plus killing the Emperor is good for the freedom of Skyrim.

I disagree. The Dark Brotherhood is pretty much uh, evil. And while your spoiler is correct, a good-aligned character probably doesn't have the magic foresight to see that coming.

Edit: And still on topic:

j50u0zUeCmU

[greed]

Yeah but basically you only have to kill like two innocent people in the Brotherhood questline. The Thieves Guild has you killing considerably more and otherwise harming many more. Just to advance some crazy liquor baroness monopoly. It's a long drop from the old guild which was in Morrowind and Oblivion probably the most clearly and unassailably good guild in games.

[Azisien]

I never even made comment on the Thieves Guild. They are evil too. It changes nothing! A good character would stop the Thieves Guild too!

e: looks like Shadowmere is only levelled horse in game. They need Unicorn DLC.

[Melfice]

The Dark Brotherhood are neither good nor evil. They simply are. Plus killing the Emperor is good for the freedom of Skyrim.

Uh, yeah.
The Dark Brotherhood are pretty evil, all considered.
You're thinking of the Morag Tong? Although, really... murder is pretty evil, no matter how legal it is.

Thieves Guild, I know little about, seeing as I only ever signed up before my restart to get to a certain sidequest. Though, hearing about it, they're less Thieves Guild, and more Maven Black-Briar's Thug Guild.

[greed]

I never even made comment on the Thieves Guild. They are evil too. It changes nothing! A good character would stop the Thieves Guild too!

e: looks like Shadowmere is only levelled horse in game. They need Unicorn DLC.

Yeah and Skweeb was saying compared to the Thieves guild the Brotherhood isnt too bad. Which is true. The Thieves guild are murderous thugs and enforcers. The Brotherhood are murderers too but they at east seem to hit people who should die a bit more often. Whereas the guild just goes after people Maven Black Briar dislikes.

[Azisien]

Both are evil. Skyrim downgraded the Dark Brotherhood to assassins for hire - not exactly a neutral or good alignment activity by any means - though resolution of that questline takes it back to its roots, assassins for hire ruled by a seemingly immortal unholy corpse and wife of a mysterious god of entropy and decay, through whom you can go kill all of Skyrim for gold. The end result is probably an organization that is more evil than the Thieves Guild, though the more narrative quests, I agree.

[CABAL49]

I disagree. The Dark Brotherhood is pretty much uh, evil. And while your spoiler is correct, a good-aligned character probably doesn't have the magic foresight to see that coming.


In their actions they are merely neutral. Morality doesn't really apply to them. They kill for coin, not for any real purpose.

I would say the Dark Brotherhood are better than the Morag Tong, as status and coin don't matter as much to the Dark Brotherhood. Equal opportunity assassins.

[Ryong]

In their actions they are merely neutral. Morality doesn't really apply to them. They kill for coin, not for any real purpose.

You remember how you get recruited, don't you?

You're going to say that's not evil?

Edit: I mean, no, really, "One of these 3 random people have a contract wanting their dead. You figure out who, which, by the way, is impossible. I'll congratulate you for being a professional if you kill all of them, too!" isn't evil at all, right?

[Aldurin]

You remember how you get recruited, don't you?

You're going to say that's not evil?

You're just being culturally insensitive.

[Ryong]

I'm being culturally insensitive to a band of contract killers that kidnap random people to possibly kill them?

Fucking political correctness.

[CABAL49]

I'm being culturally insensitive to a band of contract killers that kidnap random people to possibly kill them?

Fucking political correctness.

None of which were really that innocent. But also irrelevant. As I maintained, an assassin is not good or evil.

[Ryong]

Astrid congratulates your way of thinking if you kill all three people. Granted, if you're just killing for money and you kill all kinds of people, then you really are neutral, but it can be assumed you're not the only guy recruited like that and these people, even if not innocent, probably haven't done something terrible enough to warrant being kidnapped and killed.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

One of those guys was a bandit and the other outright admitted he would like to kill you. Seeing how many bandits people tend to kill in the rest of the game I can't really see the problem with killing these people. Duno about the woman though.

I just killed the Khajit, he was no different to any other murderer I've killed and I wasn't getting paid to kill more than 1 anyway.

Grelod was also clearly abusive, so I had no qualms about killing her either. The next 3 targets you get, I didn't know anything about them, but I was being paid by that point so whatevs.

Whether any of that is evil or not I dunno. Maybe I'm just desensitised to murder in my videogames, or maybe my character is just a bastard (note, she is pretty evil). Or maybe I was just getting paid and didn't bother to ask questions. I wasn't getting paid to murder that priest for Malog either and I could have easily not sacrified a bard to a god of secrets and murder. Basically the brotherhood is a lot less evil than the shit I do on my own anyway.

As for the Thieves Guild, they're brutal thugs at worst (running protection rackets, planting evidence to get people sent to jail for a while). I don't think I ever murdered anyone on a thief job, though that's just because a proffesional thief is a ghost anyway, so shouldn't be leaving behind a trail of evidence and bodies.

[Arcanum]

In their actions they are merely neutral. Morality doesn't really apply to them. They kill for coin, not for any real purpose.
None of which were really that innocent. But also irrelevant. As I maintained, an assassin is not good or evil.

And yet the majority of the Brotherhood members are evil, and enjoy killing for the sake of killing. The Brotherhood just gives them an outlet. Some of the stories you can overhear are pretty ridiculous.

And really that's the problem with the Brotherhood before you come along; it's just an outlet for homicidal maniacs. Once you do the quests and bring them back to the path of the Night Mother then finally the Brotherhood's assassinations are serving a higher purpose (Sithis's will). But until then it's just evil murderers murdering away.

edit- And yeah like Hawk said, the Thief guild doesn't do murders. They extort and they steal but if it comes to killing Black-Briar goes to the Brotherhood. They're greedy thugs at best. Not exactly evil.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Nothing wrong with enjoying your work...

Obviously a certain work ethic is going to attract certain mentalities to the job.

[Arcanum]

Yeah but it's silly to say that an assassin isn't good or evil when the assassins in question are arguably evil people with evil motives. Calling yourself an assassin doesn't absolve you from morality.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Just came across this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z9TdDCWN7g&feature=player_embedded). Duno how to embed, can't be bothered trying to work it out. Finally, a decent bard.

EDIT for below; I was actually very glad to find that there wasn't a morality bar in this game. Morality systems suck.

[Nikose Tyris]

Skyrim: Lacking a morality bar for a reason.

[Arcanum]

Skyrim: Lacking a morality bar for a reason.

Yeah I like that you can choose your own moral reasoning for doing something instead of the game telling you "you killed a man, that's bad."

Just came across this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z9TdDCWN7g&feature=player_embedded). Duno how to embed, can't be bothered trying to work it out. Finally, a decent bard.

Take the code at the end of the video URL, in this case 4z9TdDCWN7g. Then you put that between "youtube" tags so it will look like this (just replace '{' brackets with '[' ones) {youtube}4z9TdDCWN7g{/youtube}

[Ryong]

Yeah I like that you can choose your own moral reasoning for doing something instead of the game telling you "you killed a man, that's bad."

You had a divorce. That's about as bad as sacrificing five people at the local dark god temple. Or eating 500 live chicks.

[CABAL49]

Yeah but it's silly to say that an assassin isn't good or evil when the assassins in question are arguably evil people with evil motives. Calling yourself an assassin doesn't absolve you from morality.

In their cases, evil is a matter of perspective. Was it evil to kill Gelrood? Maybe, but it made a better life for the kids. Babette starts off with a story of how she killed a child predator. Not going to feel bad for that guy.

[Krylo]

Was it evil to kill Gelrood?

I didn't even get the job from Aventius. I was just like "Man she's a bitch" asked around about her bitchiness a bit and found out she really is that bad, and then walked over and chopped her up.

[Ryong]

I didn't even get the job from Aventius. I was just like "Man she's a bitch" asked around about her bitchiness a bit and found out she really is that bad, and then walked over and chopped her up.

"Hey kids how are you all?"
"We're fine, thanks to you, mister!"
"And your caretaker?"
"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH MERCY LET ME LIVE"
"I see she hasn't recovered."

[Azisien]

I blew her up with lightning in public and no one even did anything. Super bitch.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

All my hits are done proffesionally, like my thieving. I really dislike sloppy kills and thievery. I only ever do assassinations/thievery in my nightingale armour, which I only change into when nobodies around. I then infiltrate the target from a distance, do the deed, and get out, without anyone detecting me. Only once I'm a good distance away from the area of incident do I change back.

For Grelod, I changed clothes coming out of the Cistern, headed around the backstreets, turned invisible (it was dusk at the time) and passed the market area just as people were closing up. Once inside the place, I invisibly passed the childeren and followed her into her office, then stabbed her with a bound sword, then walked out passed every witness in the building without any of them seeing me, and made my way back to the Ratway. Perfect job.

I also recently discovered a secret way into Solitude and a blind spot in the patrol routes of the Windhelm security, so I can infiltrate both of those cities with ease now and slip in and out unnoticed.

Sure it's completely pointless, but I like the self imposed challenge of being completely undetected, a challenge I first picked up on with Thief 2 called Ghosting.

Though I do have another M.O. for my assassinations on occasion; Frenzy spells. Why bother to leave a clear case of a murderer being on the loose when you can make it look like the person you want dead is a crazed murderer themself, and have local guards kill them for you instead?

[Melfice]

I also recently discovered a secret way into Solitude[...]

Are you referring the path under the natural rock arch on which Solitude rests?
If so, that's how I first entered Solitude.
I thought it was kind of an odd entrance to the capital, especially since it was completely unguarded. XD

[Azisien]

Playing the ghostly assassin is fun too. My new rogue alt does it all the time and an enchanted set of Fortify Sneak allowed my mage to do it. Ultimately, I am a little saddened the game doesn't reward you at all for stealth, aside from occasionally avoiding bounties.

I specifically remember a quest that said sneak into a cave and don't get detected! I decided to test that theory and went in with some akimbo lightning action. I guess if they are all turned to charred corpses, they can't detect me?

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Yeah Boethias quest specifically says to kill everyone silently. I killed 1 guy silently but then I ended up alerting everyone and was forced to burn them all to death, yet Boethiah didn't care, so long as they were all dead. Kinda wierd.

Are you referring the path under the natural rock arch on which Solitude rests?
If so, that's how I first entered Solitude.
I thought it was kind of an odd entrance to the capital, especially since it was completely unguarded. XD

Yeah that's the one. Bit of an odd door though, and a serious defensive weakness in an otherwise impregnable fortress town. Of course there is also another back entrance, through the catacombs, but I duno if you can actually climb back up to it and enter from the outside.

[batgirl]

I finished the main quest yesterday, and was a bit disappointed that I didn't get any kick ass armor or weapons from it. Sure, in enjoy the shouts, but I want to look cool too (granted my deadric/dragon armor, mask and ebony mace are kind of awe inspiring).

As for stealthiness, I'm not a big fan of it. I'm a smash and grab kind of player, beating people to a pulp is much more satisfying to me.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

As for stealthiness, I'm not a big fan of it. I'm a smash and grab kind of player, beating people to a pulp is much more satisfying to me.

I was playing like this for my latest run, but now it seems I've screwed myself a bit. I leveled up my smithing a ton to get Ebony armor, but all my combat skills are far below it now. I seem to do fine more often than not, but all of a sudden Dragons and certain casters absolutely demolish me.

[Azisien]

Yeah, my thief alt has Sneak and Pickpocket at 100, but everything else in the 20s. It has...upset the scaling system. I am woefully inadequate in combat.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Can anyone tell me where the Nahkriin mask is? He's the last dragon priest I need to kill but I haven't a clue where I can find him.

[Arcanum]

You fight him near the end of the main quest, at a place called Skuldafn.

e- And you can only get to Skuldafn by progressing the main quest, and you have to fight the Dragon Priest, and if some how you forget to pick up his mask before leaving the area then you're screwed because you don't ever go back there.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Damn, can you not fight him sooner than that?

[Arcanum]

Nope, like I said in my edit, you only go there once and you need a key element from the main quest to get there. Trying to be as vague as possible here to avoid spoilers.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Well, I guess that's my sunday sorted then...

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

So I found out something by accident. Was running around in my nightingale armor 'cause I forgot to change it up to my glass set. Found a thief randomly derping about in a forest and I thought it was to be a Dark Brotherhood assassin or bandit.

Dude gave me money. 'cause I'm a goddamn Nightingale. Easiest 500 gold ever.

[BitVyper]

So is there a way to save the guy being executed at Solitude without just straight-up attacking? No matter what I do, the event seems to carry on as normal. Even if I sneak attack the executioner or use Fear on him it carries on like a scripted event.

[Krylo]

I have heard that it's possible, but not without getting a bounty I don't think. You'd have to kill all the people up there but him without being seen.

Weird that he still dies if you kill the executioner, though. Who kills him?

[Aldurin]

There's an easier way to prevent the execution, simply kill the guy before the executioner can get to him.

[BitVyper]

I have heard that it's possible, but not without getting a bounty I don't think. You'd have to kill all the people up there but him without being seen.

Weird that he still dies if you kill the executioner, though. Who kills him?

Nothing happens to the executioner no matter what I do. I've lit him on fire, hit him with fear, shot him with arrows...

He just keeps doing his job. The man's dedicated.

[Krylo]

Huh. I know I've tried to stop the execution before, but I don't remember if I killed the executioner. I know if you attack the guards before it starts one of them kills the guy while he tries to run pretty much immediately.

Are you trying to kill him during the execution animation or before hand? 'Cause if it's during the animation there's a good chance that's an unbreakable animation.

[BitVyper]

Nah, I started shooting him before dude's head was even down on the block. Maybe I just don't have enough time from the point at which I saved, but if I rush the stage, then yeah, the same thing that happened with you happens.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Enter the city via the back door, break into his house, steal his axe! Can't execute without his axe.*

*This probably doesn't work at all of course.

[Melfice]

Enter the city via the back door, break into his house, steal his axe! Can't execute without his axe.*

*This probably doesn't work at all of course.

Fairly certain it won't, no.
I think the whole scene starts playing as soon as you enter Solitude, regardless of how or where you enter it.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I think I may have found a way to get permanent invisibility from the Shadowcloak. As you probably know, if you're still crouched when the time runs out on the ability, you can stay cloaked, as long as you don't interact or stand up. Well, it seems that by fast travelling to somewhere at this point causes the autosave ability to get a bit confused as to the status of the power, and you can now go in and out of stealth whenever.

I've been playing for about half and hour since the last time I activated it and I can still turn invisible. Duno what happens if you have to reload the save though. And it could have just been a 1 off glitch.

EDIT; Ok never mind, it eventualy wore off, though it took way longer than it should.

[Sithdarth]

My god why did no one hunt me down and make me play this game sooner. Even the crappy starting shout is fun as hell. Nothing like shouting a bunch of bandits into heaps and then running up to sword them to death with one hand while lightning them to death with the other. Dragon fights are pretty damn badass too especially after you can shout at them and they taunt you.

[BitVyper]

Augh, god damn it. You can't just decide two thirds of the way through the game that the Greybeards actually have huge sticks up their asses, Bethesda. That's bad writing. I mean, they made it pretty fucking clear early on that the Dragonborn wasn't meant to be bound by the Way of the Voice. If you try to tell them you will follow it they're like "wutno! You're the DRAGONBORN, for chrissakes. Use the voice responsibly, but our code isn't for you." They said this in the clearest way they possibly could while they were in the middle of rapidly powering the Dragonborn up as fast as they possibly could. Now all of a sudden the writing wants me to believe they're ridiculously set in their ways to the point of accepting the end of the world? I could almost buy them not wanting me to learn the shout for beating Alduin even though it would still contradict their earlier behaviour, but this is just dumb. Unfortunately, the comments made by that Blades girl plus the fact that you can't tell her they aren't like that make it pretty clear that this is exactly what the writers are telling you.

It's not a huge deal or anything, but it's stupid as fuck. If they were gonna pull something like this, there should have been some indication of it earlier on. As it is, it's pretty much on the level of "by the way, guardian forces eat your memories."

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Augh, god damn it.

I actually thought that was more about the guy's personal beliefs related to the world at large than representative of the gray beards as an entity. With certain dialogue options he apologizes for it, and ultimately without much prodding he does hand you the secret to getting up to the throat of the world. Pretty explicitly implying he thinks you can succeed and that helping you isn't pointless.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Well technically it's his boss that does the prodding. He immediately changes his tune when Paarthurnax speaks up. I can overlook this part of the plot though when you consider that the entire civil war plotline only interects once with the main plot and doesn't even really matter, as it only really opens up 1 more mission and then it's off to the finale.

What I'm most dissapointed about though, is those damn masks I'd been collecting for ages. I finally got all 8 together and found out what they do and was severely let down.

[Melfice]

Yes, speaking of the civil war plot intersecting with the main story.
I'd read that I need to call a truce between the Legion and the Stormcloaks.

Supposing I did the civil war before the main quest? Will the game acknowledge this, and let me continue, or did I basically fuck myself over?

Normally I wouldn't worry, but since I've got two quests in my log that can't be finished unless I join a faction I don't want to join... let's just say I'm not entirely convinced the quest designer(s) kept in mind that people don't always do the main quest first.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Yes, speaking of the civil war plot intersecting with the main story.
I'd read that I need to call a truce between the Legion and the Stormcloaks.

Supposing I did the civil war before the main quest? Will the game acknowledge this, and let me continue, or did I basically fuck myself over?

Normally I wouldn't worry, but since I've got two quests in my log that can't be finished unless I join a faction I don't want to join... let's just say I'm not entirely convinced the quest designer(s) kept in mind that people don't always do the main quest first.

The game acknowledges it and moves on without a problem.
The issue is that you need a Jarl's help for something, but he doesn't think he's safe to help you out during the war. So, unless you get both sides to agree to a truce he's all "NOPE."

[Krylo]

You just miss the cool little truce side mission if you've already done the war.

So sad.

[Grimpond]

Honestly, putting off the civil war was worth it for me to watch Ulfric being a whiny little bitch. Killing him will be all the sweeter for it.

[Melfice]

So, Karesh, what you're saying is... I'm fucked.

Great. Well done, Bethesda.
Never buying any of your games again. (Yes I will.)

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Honestly, putting off the civil war was worth it for me to watch Ulfric being a whiny little bitch. Killing him will be all the sweeter for it.

I think the funniest part was how I ended up elevating Maven Black Briar to Jarl status. Not that I care much about that bitch, but it'll work out nice for the guild now that their top employer has more power.

Oh and I also got to tell that Thalmor bitch to piss off, which was pretty excellent.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

So, Karesh, what you're saying is... I'm fucked.

Great. Well done, Bethesda.
Never buying any of your games again. (Yes I will.)

No, no no no. You can't do the truce mission because there's nobody to call a truce with. The Jarl just goes "WELL I WOULD HAVE HAD A PROBLEM IF THE WAR WAS ON BUT HAHAAA YOU TOOK CARE A' THAT." And the story continues without an issue.

[Melfice]

Oh. Well. Okay!

[Bells]

i just want to leave this here

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/958445_700b.jpg

[Krylo]

So, apparently Jordis the Sword Maiden (Solitude House Carl) really hates the fuck out of Ancano. Which is perfectly understandable, I mean it's Ancano, and fuck that guy, but when I went to the college with her I was like, you know, I don't really wanna seem like the super rich preppy kid and bring my butler/slave/walking blood bag with me to school, so I told her to go home while standing in the main hall next to Ancano.

She immediately attacked him, pulling aggro off the three students and Tolfdir as well due to the assault. I healed her twice, but other than that she just ripped through them all alone. I thought that was pretty amusing but I also figured I didn't want half the school dead before I even started my quests, so I reloaded, and figuring it was just some silly glitch released her again. Same thing.

So I reloaded, walk outside the school, and released her. Then everything was fine.

[Arcanum]

Arrow in the knee

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j122/arcanum_DF/arrow.jpg

[Krylo]

Why so grumpy, Arc?

Let me guess. . . Did somebody steal your sweetroll?

[Aldurin]

Why so grumpy, Arc?

Let me guess. . . Did somebody steal your sweetroll?

This line is what makes it so hard to NOT be a public serial killer when you're trying not to be one. Stealth builds probably have it easy since they can just drop poison in that guard's pocket and watch them die.

[Bells]

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j122/arcanum_DF/arrow.jpg

Now i'm just trolling

http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/internet-memes-i-used-to-make-smart-life-decisions.jpg

[Marc v4.0]

Patrolling for Dragons almosts makes you wish you an arrow to the knee

[Osterbaum]

One line that really pisses me off is one delivered by the Jarl of Whiterun's kids: "Another adventurer here to lick my fathers boots. Good job." Every time I hear that I wanna punch the kid.

[Melfice]

One line that really pisses me off is one delivered by the Jarl of Whiterun's kids: "Another adventurer here to lick my fathers boots. Good job." Every time I hear that I wanna punch the kid.

There's actually a reason for that line.
It still doesn't make up for the fact it's the only line the kid has, outside the quest he's involved in, but still.

[Osterbaum]

What reason? I've never licked the Jarls boots!

[Melfice]

What reason? I've never licked the Jarls boots!

The kid's been told either the truth about what goes on in the castle in order to annoy his father, or he's been fed lies about what goes on in the castle in order to annoy his father.

See, he's been talking to Mephala. This Daedric Prince loves to mess around with humans, so if it causes discomfort it's worth doing to him/her.

The quest involved is The Whispering Door (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Whispering_Door). It more or less explains why the son acts like that.

[Marc v4.0]

The kid's been told either the truth about what goes on in the castle in order to annoy his father, or he's been fed lies about what goes on in the castle in order to annoy his father.

See, he's been talking to Mephala. This Daedric Prince loves to mess around with humans, so if it causes discomfort it's worth doing to him/her.

The quest involved is The Whispering Door (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Whispering_Door). It more or less explains why the son acts like that.

I assumed he acted like that because he was the entitled twat son of a regional lord.

Speaking of little shits, there is this kid in Riverwood that just stands in the three-way in the middle of town all hours of the day and night.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Somebody pulled off an amazing arrow shot (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/326599/skyrim-video-is-this-the-most-incredible-assassination-ever/?attr=CVG-General-RSS&cid=OTC-RSS).

I can only applaude.

[Aldurin]

I approve only because it killed the priest. That guy is annoying as fuck.

[Ecks]

What.

No seriously, I spent the whole time he was on the bench thinking "there's just no way" and then it happened.

[Melfice]

Probably real, but you can bet your ass he's spent hours, maybe days of his life - time he'll never get back - trying to make it happen.

Because for that one time he managed it, it must've gone wrong hundreds of times. Unless he's incredibly lucky.

[Bells]

It's not really... that... hard (in theory) . There are no variables to affect the arrows (wind makes no difference in arrow trajectory for example) so, with some simple trial and error in a flat plane, you can easily find out the right angle to control where the arrow would drop, then, just count the steps between you and the arrow, and there you have it! Angle X Distance!

[Krylo]

XFUx8-3Y-oc

Much better than trick shots.

[Arcanum]

Best. Mod. Ever.

P2QL2iw_Gqc

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Well technically it's his boss that does the prodding. He immediately changes his tune when Paarthurnax speaks up. I can overlook this part of the plot though when you consider that the entire civil war plotline only interects once with the main plot and doesn't even really matter, as it only really opens up 1 more mission and then it's off to the finale.


Wait wait wait, that was Paarthurnax? I thought it was just another graybeard telling him to let you go see Parthurnax.

The way I saw the scene was the guy reminds whatshisface that he's not in charge, and that whether he likes it to or not there's only one way for the Dragonborn to ask the leader of the graybeards about something.

[Krylo]

Wulfgar told him to let you go see parthy. Parthy was the other guy on the mountain.

[Krylo]

http://i40.tinypic.com/35jb5v4.png

[Sithdarth]

In other news, holy fucking god legendary quality dragon plate armor. Like my heavy armor is only mid 50s and I've spent like 4 or 5 points in their and I'm still essentially invincible. I walked up to a Thalmor fort and attacked a guard. Now this very same action resulted in about 3 seconds of red before I died horribly while wearing legendary steel plate. Well I went back in full legendary dragon plate and attacked for the hell of it. Long story short I slaughtered me like 5 Thalmor with nothing but an enchanted sword. Didn't even need to heal once. It was awesome. I can't wait to actually have a decent heavy armor skill rating.

[Krylo]

Daedric Armor is actually a little better, but it's a lot harder to gather materials and doesn't come in light armor.