Batman Mafia

[Nique]

Unfortunately, everyone's roleclaims so far are plausible... The good thing about this conflict is that we know that either Gem or Nikose is mafia. Gem hasn't acted particularly scummy and the fact that Freeze, a townie, jailed Nikose is confusing as hell... Whoever Freeze is knows something, and I think it's time they spoke up.

EDIT: FYI this is probably my only chance to post until later in the evening and I haven't decided on a solid vote yet. FOS Remains on Aldurin.

[Inbred Chocobo]

What? I'm here!-ish.

Also,

VOTE: Inbred Chocobo

I don't like the way he's been "orchestrating" Nikose, Gem and Karesh all being interlinked somehow, or how if one ends up this way, then the other two must be that way. Now yes, one of the three is likely mafia, but lynching one to "prove" this is rediculous (I can't spell). Lynching one will tell us that person's role and regardless of whether it supports IC's theory or not, its probably not going to pan out. I feel like this is a way for him to make town go after atleast 2 people, waste two days (maybe even three assuming the vig doesn't hit the other two), and not get anything accomplished.

Wow, where have you been?

At bahamut, at first I was thinking of going after someone outside the Gem Karesh Nikose love triangle, but now I really don't know what I am going after. Basically lynching Nikose would be the way I would like to do about proving Nikose's, Karesh's, and Gem's claims. Since Freeze decided to jack it up where we can't Lynch Nikose, I was proposing maybe putting it off to the next day, then just lynch Nikose then.

Gem however is making some really good arguments about Nikose being able to know about the claim. Gem points out how roles are revealed if investigated (not to the degree Nikose claimed). So I am going back to

Vote: Karesh

There are two possibilities still.

The Penguin is still out there, and is one of the inactive players, and not Nikose, and just hasn't claimed, or Nikose has a list of roles that were possible in a full game of 25 people, but were left out, so he picked one from there, and wasn't included. However I doubt the second one, but the first could really dissuade me from keeping my vote on Karesh.

[Geminex]

or Nikose has a list of roles that were possible in a full game of 25 people, but were left out,
This is actually quite common! It's called a safelist, and has featured in most mafia games on the forum to date. It basically lists a bunch of roles that are as yet unclaimed, and as such gives scum the ability to roleclaim believably.

My guess is that it includes The Penguin and Clayface.

Oh, and Nique, I don't think freeze actually knows anything. I could see another investigative role bouncing around. I can't see Freeze having both day-jailer and investigative powers, though.

So either Freeze really thought that Nikose was innocent and decided to freeze him to encourage further discussion. Maybe Freeze thinks we should lynch me first, I'unno. In any case, it's just a sign that Freeze disagrees with me, not that he actually knows more than we do.

Or Freeze hit Nikose to prevent him from using any day powers, and, in the process, forgot that freezing prevents anyone from being lynched.

I honestly think that the latter might have happened, Freeze just messed up.

[Moogle0119]

Current vote count...

Karesh (5)
Hawk2
BahamutFlare
Gregness
Bard the 5th LW
Inbred Chocobo

Geminex (2)
Karesh
Aldurin

Inbred Chocobo (1)
P-Sleazy

[Inbred Chocobo]

This is actually quite common! It's called a safelist, and has featured in most mafia games on the forum to date. It basically lists a bunch of roles that are as yet unclaimed, and as such gives scum the ability to roleclaim believably.

My guess is that it includes The Penguin and Clayface.

Oh, and Nique, I don't think freeze actually knows anything. I could see another investigative role bouncing around. I can't see Freeze having both day-jailer and investigative powers, though.

So either Freeze really thought that Nikose was innocent and decided to freeze him to encourage further discussion. Maybe Freeze thinks we should lynch me first, I'unno. In any case, it's just a sign that Freeze disagrees with me, not that he actually knows more than we do.

Or Freeze hit Nikose to prevent him from using any day powers, and, in the process, forgot that freezing prevents anyone from being lynched.

I honestly think that the latter might have happened, Freeze just messed up.

Yeah but if that is the case it could Clayface is in the game, but not the Penguin. Man that would be weird, and a bit of a mindfuck but I could see it.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Let's look at this. We have three obvious suspects at the moment.

Nikose - Roleclaimed as a townie with the ability to sacrifice a minion. Gem claims he is in fact Mafia.

Karesh - Roleclaimed as Nikose's minion. Suspiciously did so in the exact role that Nikose laid out as a possibility. Note that Nikose claims he knows the name of the minion, yet never actually stated it or confirmed if Karesh was it.

Gem - Roleclaimed as a one-shot PO. Says that he used his power on Nikose, turning him up on Mafia. One-shot PO suspicious roleclaim.

Possibilities:

1) Gem is correct. Nikose and Karesh are both Mafia. Nikose came up with a plausible role to deflect suspicion away from him, a fellow Mafiate stepped in to corroborate story. Likely, most probable course of events.

2) Gem is correct. Nikose is Mafia, Karesh is the SK. Nikose roleclaims plausible role, intending to leave a gap for a fellow Mafiate to fill in if suspicion falls on them. Karesh sees opportunity, steps in, Nikose is unable to claim otherwise without revealing another Mafiate. Plausible, but unlikely.

3) Roleclaims of Nikose and Karesh are accurate. Gem is Mafia or SK. Unlikely, as Gem would be lynched as soon as Nikose or Karesh were killed.

With that in mind, Vote: Karesh.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Well, now I'm kinda lost, truth be told. I suppose it is actually possible that Karesh is town, and Nik somehow had some prior knowledge of roles or something. I too would have prefered to lynch Nik first, I admit I didn't really think before switching to Karesh after Freeze did his thing. I can also see the posibility that, if Karesh does flip town and we all turn on Gem for his roleclaim causing that lynch, that he could defend himself with the argument that "it was Nikose I said was scum, not Karesh, not my fault you guys lynched him." It's also telling that Gem himself is no longer voting for Karesh either, and if he was totally confident he was scum he really should be.

So for now,

Unvote: Karesh

Because I'm really not sure right now. Gem could be telling the truth about Nik (and it would be poor play if he was lieing really), but Nik could just have some knowledge about Kareshs role and using it to confuse us. This is why I'd have prefered to lynch Nik.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Well, now I'm kinda lost, truth be told. I suppose it is actually possible that Karesh is town, and Nik somehow had some prior knowledge of roles or something. I too would have prefered to lynch Nik first, I admit I didn't really think before switching to Karesh after Freeze did his thing. I can also see the posibility that, if Karesh does flip town and we all turn on Gem for his roleclaim causing that lynch, that he could defend himself with the argument that "it was Nikose I said was scum, not Karesh, not my fault you guys lynched him." It's also telling that Gem himself is no longer voting for Karesh either, and if he was totally confident he was scum he really should be.

So for now,

Unvote: Karesh

Because I'm really not sure right now. Gem could be telling the truth about Nik (and it would be poor play if he was lieing really), but Nik could just have some knowledge about Kareshs role and using it to confuse us. This is why I'd have prefered to lynch Nik.

Unlikely in the extreme that Karesh is town. Even if he was exploiting a gap left by Mafiate Nikose, he would still be scum.

Have to Occam's Razor this shit when it comes to Mafia. Most likely explanation is the Gem is telling the truth, Nikose and Karesh are scum. Roleblocker unwisely took Nikose out of play, now we should kill Karesh.

If Gem is lying, we remove him tomorrow.

[Ravashak]

Didn't have too much time, so just skimmed through since I left off.
First off, Freeze... why?
Second, I'm not the Penguin, just in case anyone wondered. At this time, I don't feel like the time's quite right for me to come out and claim quite yet.
Adding to that, how likely would it be for Moogle to set up a safe claim-list for the mafia? This could explain how Nikose and Karesh would be able to make their story synch so incredibly well, if they're both mafia.

[Geminex]

Well, now I'm kinda lost, truth be told. I suppose it is actually possible that Karesh is town, and Nik somehow had some prior knowledge of roles or something.

Then do it like me. Vote for Karesh, to begin with. If another player claims penguin, reevaluate the situation. If it turns out there isn't another penguin, then I'm pretty sure that Karesh's claim loses all basis, since I very much doubt that Moogle would make a flavor text referring to another role, and then fail to include that other role in the game.

I can also see the posibility that, if Karesh does flip town and we all turn on Gem for his roleclaim causing that lynch, that he could defend himself with the argument that "it was Nikose I said was scum, not Karesh, not my fault you guys lynched him."

Dude, I have been the #1 proponent of a Karesh lynch so far. If this were a sports game, I would be sitting in the bleachers with a big-ass "KILL KARESH" banner and maybe one of those rubber foam hands reading "LYNCH THE HALF-ASS". I couldn't deny responsiblity for the Karesh lynch if I fucking tried.

It's also telling that Gem himself is no longer voting for Karesh either, and if he was totally confident he was scum he really should be.

>: ?

Given that I am p. sure that the penguin doesn't even exist in this game (guessing scum have a safelist?), I don't see how Karesh's claim can be construed as anything but scum!

Again, though, if the dude has an explanation, I will unvote him!

For now, though, Vote: Karesh


Seriously?

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

My bad there Gem, and yours too. Your vote hasn't been counted by Moogs. Votes need to go on seperate lines remember. I didn't see your name on the offical count, so I assumed your weren't voting for him, and you still aren't.

[Geminex]

Geez, I missed that. Thanks.

Mind you, there's no rule that voting on seperate lines is mandatory, which I don't think it always is. In fact, there's no rules at all! So Ima blame this one on moogle.

Anyway,
Vote: Karesh

[Mr.Bookworm]

No, really, why are you unvoting Karesh, Hawk?

This is a win-win for everyone but Karesh, but half-assers aren't people.

If we kill Karesh and he's scum, Nikose is almost certainly scum, we kill him tomorrow, two Mafia down.

If we kill Karesh and he's town, Gem is almost certainly scum, and we still get a Mafia kill tomorrow.

So in conclusion, fuck Karesh. Fuck him right into a noose.

[Moogle0119]

Deadline in just shy of 2 hours from now and we have a tie for who's in the lead for the most votes. Regardless, Night 1 will begin after the deadline.

P.S. Everyone, start putting your votes on separate lines and also be sure you're unvoting before switching your vote to someone else.

It's been a rule for about 5 days now actually.

[BahamutFlare]

I think that we can the most info from a Karesh lynch or an Aldurin lynch.

If Karesh is mafia, then it's very likely Gem is town and Nikose is scum also.
If Karesh is SK, then there's no real ties to anyone, but I doubt the SK would do this. I'm going to ignore this.
If Karesh is town, then we can probably confirm that Nikose or Greed is the Penguin and Gem is lying.

If Aldurin is mafia, then I'd imagine that Gem, IC are town unless mafiates are going at each others throats to have one person be exempt. (doubt that) Which would clear up confusion since IC imo still seemed pretty scummy. I wouldn't really think about voting IC after that.
If Aldurin is town, then we got nothing I guess.

The bigger offensive payoffs would be going after Karesh. The bigger defensive payoffs would be going after Aldurin and getting a block of pretty confirmed townies.

Hawk2, on the other note, can you answer RO's question I proposed to him? Why do you think he couldn't make a simple defense against being the SK? And what would your defense be against it?

[Geminex]

It's been a rule for about 5 days now actually.

Whoops! Didn't see that. Blame me for skimming. Or you for not putting it in the first post . Or Nikose cause Nikose.

Anyway, back to stuff that actually matters!

[Geminex]

As for the earl lynch, let's wait and see. I think Karesh is priority. And I, too, wouldn't mind hearing Hawk's unvote rationale!

As for the RO thing, I think when RO said he couldn't defend himself, he was referring to the fact that Nikose (it was Nikose, right?) wasn't bringing up any actual evidence to support his suspicion. Hence, unable to formulate a counterargument.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Hawk2, on the other note, can you answer RO's question I proposed to him? Why do you think he couldn't make a simple defense against being the SK? And what would your defense be against it?

Well, first I'd want to know what was the case for him being the SK? Cos I can't really speak for someone elses defence if I don't know why you were accusing him in the first place. I imagine this came up sometime after I died the first time, and I've been skimming the thread to catch up with the more recent events so this is the first such accusation I've seen.

[BahamutFlare]

As for the earl lynch, let's wait and see. I think Karesh is priority. And I, too, wouldn't mind hearing Hawk's unvote rationale!

As for the RO thing, I think when RO said he couldn't defend himself, he was referring to the fact that Nikose (it was Nikose, right?) wasn't bringing up any actual evidence to support his suspicion. Hence, unable to formulate a counterargument.

I agree with you with the first paragraph. It's why my vote hasn't changed yet. And probably won't.

And with the second. What I learned about that kind of behavior makes me suspicious. At that time he said that, he wasn't in the right mindset, so if that is the case, I'd disagree that it was a sarcastic remark to Nikose. I'd consider it a minor tell. But we all handle everything differently, so I'd just like a sane Hawk2 to be able to give his defense for himself. I went through something similar about not being in the right mind frame and those sarcastic remarks are usually a huge tell. So by an experience standpoint, that's what I'd base my feelings on. However, I really want Hawk2 to just be able to lay my suspicions to rest.

[BahamutFlare]

Well, first I'd want to know what was the case for him being the SK? Cos I can't really speak for someone elses defence if I don't know why you were accusing him in the first place. I imagine this came up sometime after I died the first time, and I've been skimming the thread to catch up with the more recent events so this is the first such accusation I've seen.

Nikose said something that implied he thought that RO was the SK. RO then replied in a very odd way about how he could defend himself against mafia accusations. But couldn't against a SK accusation. He had nothing. And even with a bad frame of mind, I think saying that he wasn't the SK was a good first step, but he didn't do that. His 'remark' could have been sarcastic. Or it could have been genuine bc he couldn't think in a bad state of mind. I can see both ways of this being the case.

Top of page 17.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Ninja'd a bit there. For the unvote rationale, I thought I was clear, I'm just not sure any more. There was some mention of Nik perhaps knowing about some of the roles Moogle might have come up with for the game somewhere I think? It was enough to make me think that maybe Karesh might actually be town and Nik knew something about his role already, enough to make his Penguin claim. I dunno, maybe I misread something.

To be honest I still haven't caught up on the whole thread yet and I'm not paying it as much attention as I should since I came back. I need to make myself sit down and read the whole thing again before before I can really do anything, and the Karesh vote wasn't thought through, seeing as I just jumped to him right after Nik got frozen.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

And still being ninja'd.

Ok, so somebody made an offhand remark about RO being SK and asked him to defend it, and he didn't just come out and straight away say "Because I'm not", and that's your whole suspiscion? Is that right? Really?

For what it's worth, no, I'm not the SK. But I would say that anyway, as would any player when asked about any role that's not town. But, I mean, that's just my word that you'll have to take there I suppose, not much else I can say really is there?

I can't speak for why RO left or for whatever his reply was, because I'm not him. So... yeah, anything else?

[Mr.Bookworm]

I'm starting to think Hawk has me on ignore. Why you gotta be like that, Hawk? :(

[BahamutFlare]

And still being ninja'd.

Ok, so somebody made an offhand remark about RO being SK and asked him to defend it, and he didn't just come out and straight away say "Because I'm not", and that's your whole suspiscion? Is that right? Really?

For what it's worth, no, I'm not the SK. But I would say that anyway, as would any player when asked about any role that's not town. But, I mean, that's just my word that you'll have to take there I suppose, not much else I can say really is there?

I can't speak for why RO left or for whatever his reply was, because I'm not him. So... yeah, anything else?

It was that he didn't and he was in a bad state of mind. Bad state of mind = poor wording and choices. Lying is more difficult. It's more of a psychological reason rather than a rational one. I'll grant you that. And it's impossible to prove or disprove that. However, it makes me feel better hearing you say that, so I'm done for a while. Thank you.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I'm starting to think Hawk has me on ignore. Why you gotta be like that, Hawk? :(

Who said that?!

>.>

<.<

Nah but seriously, I was trying to respond to like, 3 people and 2 different topics there and got slightly ninja'd on some of the posts. If it really means so much to you, if I have nothing else to go on before the days out I'll re-vote Karesh. I've given my reasons for unvoting him, and he's still ahead on votes anyway. I'd just rather not lynch somebody when I still have doubts. I'd still ahve prefered to lynch Nik first though.

And you guys forcing me into a lynch by complaining that I've unvoted somebody isn't exactly ideal either.

[Geminex]

And you guys forcing me into a lynch by complaining that I've unvoted somebody isn't exactly ideal either.

Well, it's less "complaining" and more "not really thinking your reasons are good ones". We're trying to take out scum here and avoid lynching townies. We are totes open to ideas and suggestions and good arguments. What we have been doing so far is simply questioning the argument that you made for unvoting Karesh because it seemed to be baseless. Which is why

If it really means so much to you, if I have nothing else to go on before the days out I'll re-vote Karesh.
this is a good choice, I think.

So we're cool!
Also, I should sleep now.

[Nique]

Got a little break at the moment -

It looks like we'll find out about karesh and by extension nikose but I'm really hesitant to follow the group in case we're wrong. I'll have possibly participated in two townie lynches if I do. Need more time to examine the thread for myself.

I have a gut feeling that hawk is our SK. RO seemed to fit the role and Hawk seems unusually excited to be playing again.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I have a gut feeling that hawk is our SK. RO seemed to fit the role and Hawk seems unusually excited to be playing again.

Ok, seriously, where is this SK thing coming from in relation to me and RO? Exactly what were the reasons given for RO "fitting the pattern" for being an SK? It was Nikose who said that first (you know, the guy most people seem to think is scum).

As for me being "excited" to be playing again, dude, I got lynched day 1. Again. Sure I'm glad to be back in the game but I only made a couple of posts before people started directing questions straight to me, so I've responded to them. How is that making me look "excited" to be playing exactly? Sure I've been more active today, but only because I've actually had stuff to say. Hell I even said I've only skimmed the thread to catch up on parts I missed when I was dead, if I was so eager to be playing I'd have read everything top to bottom to make sure I was up on what's going on.

As it happens I've spent most of my free time lately reading Song of Ice and Fire novels (first 4 books since christmas) and not doing a whole lot else.

And really, if I was the SK, would I have bothered making so much noise when I could have probably skirted by without drawing any attention to myself? I could have just left a vote on Karesh for an easier lynch and gone by unnoticed. So if I'm the SK, I must be a really terrible player.

[P-Sleazy]

Wow, where have you been?

At bahamut, at first I was thinking of going after someone outside the Gem Karesh Nikose love triangle, but now I really don't know what I am going after. Basically lynching Nikose would be the way I would like to do about proving Nikose's, Karesh's, and Gem's claims. Since Freeze decided to jack it up where we can't Lynch Nikose, I was proposing maybe putting it off to the next day, then just lynch Nikose then.

Gem however is making some really good arguments about Nikose being able to know about the claim. Gem points out how roles are revealed if investigated (not to the degree Nikose claimed). So I am going back to

Vote: Karesh

There are two possibilities still.

The Penguin is still out there, and is one of the inactive players, and not Nikose, and just hasn't claimed, or Nikose has a list of roles that were possible in a full game of 25 people, but were left out, so he picked one from there, and wasn't included. However I doubt the second one, but the first could really dissuade me from keeping my vote on Karesh.

At work, and maybe a little bit on facebook, but mostly at work.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Okay, for you P-Sleazy, here are the roleclaims so you understand my theories.

The Roleclaim:
Roleclaim: Oswald Cobblepot, The Penguin. One person in game [Name withheld] is a lackey that killing me will redirect to killing him instead. It's an extra life at the expense of someone else. The person is pre-assigned, but not a mason partner. I don't know for sure if that person actually realizes what happens, nor do I know what that person's role is.

The Convienience:
Everything about your roleclaim, Aldy, felt like a puzzle falling together in my head. If you are Thomas Elliot, Hush, it would feel like a massive information dump to on day 1; we'd be able to accurately guess which BatHeroes are in the game based on timeline, and possibly figure out whether there's any sideline powers [for instance, Damian Wayne as Robin[Kill role?], as opposed to Dick or Tim[Useless, best case scenario]]. I spent the rest of my energy on day one putting together a likely list of roles, because Moogle is an attention to detail kind of guy, and this is like a Batman puzzle between two horrible nerds. I want to figure out his angle and where he's going with this.

That's the full summary of my feelings. [Also, thanks for doing the big replies to IC, Aldy, while I was in class at college and couldn't spare the time. That as actually a big help.]


Fine though, whatever. You guys killing Nikose would lead to my death anyway so;
Roleclaim: Clayface Yadda Yadda Arkham aligned and whatnot.

I was informed that the Pengiun was my boss, but [i]also that he's a tricky bastard and that I should be on my toes for a double cross.
I guess had the body swap thing come up, the flavor would have been him ditching me in a trap or something because he's a doodyhead.

Still, roles are roles. Not his fault.
Bastard.Aaaaand cut!

Why cut?

Cause it's time for a bit of a roleclaim!
Edward Nigma, the Riddler, at your service. My immersion in a "lazarus pit" (?) allows me to make one brilliant deduction! (I'm a one-shot PO).

Aaaand last night I used my one deduction on none other than Nikose Tyris.

Aaaaand I now know for a fact that he is, in fact, Tim Drake, Robin

Aaaaaand in that light, Karesh, your particular roleclaim is looking awfully thin.

I'm aware I'm probably going to end up dying, but oh well. This was worth it.
After all, I do believe I just killed two bats... with one stone.


So yeah, Nikose's roleclaim directly involves Karesh, and Gem's roleclaim says that Nikose faked his claim, which in turn means Karesh faked his. So yeah, thats why a bunch of us are throwing theories around about how they intermix.

((Seriously, how did you miss this stuff? Work that bad?))

[Nique]

Ok, seriously, where is this SK thing coming from in relation to me and RO? Exactly what were the reasons given for RO "fitting the pattern" for being an SK? It was Nikose who said that first (you know, the guy most people seem to think is scum).

In all honestly the SK is going to be the hardest to figure out. RO was active but still playing pretty quiet, so he's as good a candidate as I think we're going to get to fit that role. I'm not trying to chime in with Nikose on, well, anything really, but if he had the same feeling about RO then I would agree with that.

Now, when you stepped in you said something along the line of 'taking out' whoever originally killed you (as Bane). Clearly you're in good humor because of being able to play again but I have doubts that you would post something that bold if you were just a vanilla townie.

This is hardly air-tight, of course, and I understand that. But your strong protest makes me feel like I'm getting close to something. It could just be that you have an interesting role, but ... well, let's just stick a pin in this for now.

FOS still on Aldurin

FOS on Hawk as possible SK

FOS on Gem for a REALLY bold roleclaim

Vote karesh at least until they come up with a better defense because I don't know how else we're going to find out what's going on with Nikose and Mr. Freeze.

[P-Sleazy]

no, works that long. So I kinda just read the last page of 40 or so posts which was the theories but not the roleclaims.

[Aldurin]

FOS still on Aldurin

This should probably be added to the thread title since it's going to remain this way as long as I am alive.

[MariusTwilight]

Holy crap this thread has gone faster then I thought. I was away for most of the day on campus, so I've only had time to go over most of the thread, sorry if I've missed anything.

I can't say for certain about why Freeze acted like that, but it bugs me in the way it happened. Lynching Nikose would have revealed the challenge between himself and Gem, but at the moment that can't happen. Also, if he is a Mafia, would it be wise for another to stick out a neck for eachother? From what I've gathered I thought they generally kept as hidden as they could.

I AM suspicious of Karesh, but not enough to lynch since he really could be Karesh, and Nikose could just be lieing. I trust Gem's roleclaim, at least until Nikose gets lynched since that seems to be the only 100% way.

I'll hold, at least until near the end of this day to vote. If no other option, I'll pick the best option from what I see.

[greed]

Yeah let's go with this,


Vote: Karesh


This way if he's telling the truth we don't lose two towns.

[Geminex]

That is 8 votes on Karesh, I think. Aaaand since we've got 8 to lynch... this is it, I think!

I'd unvote at this point, but I am pretty sure we're done with discussion.

If I die, tell my family I love them.

[Moogle0119]

Current vote count...

Karesh (6)
BahamutFlare
Gregness
Bard the 5th LW
Inbred Chocobo
Geminex
greed

Geminex (2)
Karesh
Aldurin

Inbred Chocobo (1)
P-Sleazy

Still 8 to lynch.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Wait, I guess I didn't put my vote on it's own line. Stupid rules. I think someone else did it, too.

Vote: Karesh

[Geminex]

Bookworm (http://nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=1179411&postcount=256) and Nique (http://nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=1179485&postcount=281) voted as well, but they didn't put it on seperate lines.

Whether you wanna count those is your call, but the day's kinda gone on for a while now so

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Neither did Nique, but since I'm here and it's the last vote, and I said I'd vote him if I had nothing better to go on by days end

Vote: Karesh

So we're done here now.

[Moogle0119]

As the day came to a close, the inmates of Arkham Asylum banded together again and went straight to the home of Karesh. Karesh was not expecting any visitors today, and was somewhat startled when the doorbell. As Karesh opened the door, the sight of all the inmates on the other side surprised Karesh. One of them pulled out a gun and shot Karesh and Karesh fell through the glass table in the living room. Karesh tried to get up and run away, but realized the fall through the table had caused paralysis. The inmates wasted no time and surrounded their fallen victim to finish the job. By the end, Karesh, Barbara Gordon (Batgirl) laid dead before them.

It is now Night 2. 48 hours for all night roles to be submitted before Day 3 begins (or less depending on how fast I receive the night roles).

[Moogle0119]

As night fell on Gotham, Batman set off by himself intent on finding out who had murdered Jonathan Crane the night before. Batman found the scene of the crime and began his investigation. It didn’t take long for the world’s greatest detective to find enough clues to begin tracking down the killer. His trail led him to the old Ace Chemicals plant, which hadn’t been in use in years. Batman hadn’t been back here since…

“Ace Chemicals, you always told me about how this was the place of your greatest failure as Batman. Tell me Bruce, is it still?” asked a voice as the Red Hood appeared from the darkness.

“It was. I should have saved him from falling into that vat, but I couldn’t. Now though, it’s nothing compared to how I failed you Jason.”

“Then why do you allow him to live? After he took me away from you and beat me nearly to death? And you have allowed him to live all this time after? Why?”

Batman said nothing.

“Help me find him Bruce. I plan on making sure he doesn’t kill anyone else tonight.” said the Red Hood as he offered his hand to his former mentor.

“I won’t allow you to kill anyone else.” Batman responded motionless.

“Fine. Then I’ll do what Batman can’t. I’ll make sure these criminals stop breaking out of Arkham and killing since you still don’t have what it takes.”

“You need help Jason. Let me help you, please.”

“It’s too late for that Bruce, I’m going to find him and kill him tonight. And nothing is going to stop me.”

“Wrong.” said Batman as he lunged at the Red Hood attempting to catch him off guard.

The Red Hood was fast though and dodged out of the way. Batman fought against his previous protégé, noting that he had improved since they had last worked together. Despite the improvement, he was still no match and Batman quickly dominated the fight. Batman blocked a punch from the Red Hood and slammed his helmet into the wall, denting the helmet. The Red Hood fell to the ground and struggled to stay conscious. With his back towards Batman, the Red Hood pulled out a small detonator device from his jacket and pressed the big red button on it.

“Bruce, I’m going to find and kill the Joker tonight. If I can’t, then I have no purpose left in this world. said the Red Hood as he passed out from the pain.

Batman quickly looked at the detonator and saw he had less than 30 seconds to leave before the whole place blew up. Batman didn’t hesitate though, as he lifted the Red Hood over his shoulder and attempted to escape with him. Unfortunately, carrying the Red Hood slowed him down and Batman did not make it out before the entire plant exploded.

The next morning, the bodies of Nique, Bruce Wayne (Batman) and Hawk2, Jason Todd (Red Hood – Serial Killer) were found. The police concluded that the two had killed each other in the fight.



As the next day began Nikose Tyris was completely unfrozen.



Day 3 begins. With 13 players left that leaves 7 needs to lynch. No deadline yet.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Hah. This was a good night.

Vote: Nikose

With Nikose down, that should give us two scum left.

[Nikose Tyris]

Just to test a theory:
Hey Freeze! If you're still focused on helping Nora, keep me safe for another day, would ya?


Oh, Hey, Everyone else:
Roleclaim: Tim Drake, The Best Robin
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1531/homergivesthefingers.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/215/homergivesthefingers.gif/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

You have maybe 10 "active" players. There's 3 Bat-mafiates left. Y'all need to lynch a mafiate today.

It's not going to be me, mind you. Because we're going to pick you off, one at a time, based on activity.

You took down Barbara. You took down Bruce. I'll have each and every one of you for that.

[MariusTwilight]

Lynch: Nikose

[Inbred Chocobo]

Vote: Nikose

I told you people.

[BahamutFlare]

Vote Nikose

Also this was best night ever.

[Aldurin]

Vote: Nikose

[Nikose Tyris]

...Why am I not frozen yet. Aldurin, what the ass.

[MariusTwilight]

Well, this has been a rather entertaining game so far, and I know I'm going to garner some hate because of my previous actions. Don't hate, allow me to cool down any thoughts against me, he's just a good friend so I wanted to see someone else die instead of him to test it first. Consider it an obligation!

So, while this has been an ice game so far, I must full declare myself at this point. As we know Nikose's role, Karesh and Nique were revealed as Mafia, and it this game has a 5 to 1 rule on Town vs Mafia, then I'm not sure how many are left to go against.

Without further ado~

ROLECLAIM: Viktor Fries (Mr Freeze) Arkham Aligned

And to proove it, hey Nikose! Guess what? LEAVE MY WIFE ALONE!

[Moogle0119]

Mr. Freeze stepped up and quickly froze Nikose Tyris from the crowd that was gathering around him.

Frozen (aka jailed) players cannot act, post, or be targeted by lynches or any night roles until the start of the next day. All votes that were on Nikose Tyris are voided for the remainder of the day.

12 active players now, still 7 to lynch. Day 3 continues.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Vote: Marius

Either you're lying and scum, or you're town and yet helping the mafia anyway.

[Geminex]

Well riddle me this marius, what the hell is your agenda? You just made Nikose unlynchable two days in a fucking row.

And whats this about your wife?

[MariusTwilight]

I'm Freeze, and I am infact Arkham Aligned. The first time I froze Nikose was because A) He is a good friend of mine, and B) I felt obligated to help him in that situation. Since there was still a chance that he was Town aligned and Gem was lieing, I would rather risk Karesh then I would Nikose. This time around, its for something I thought would be a good reason.

We know Nikose is Mafia, he even roleclaimed it. I thought it would be a good idea to, instead of lynching a known mafiate, to go after the remaining mafiates instead. Once they're out of the way, then we can Lynch Nikose and we'll win. If this has made a number of people mad, then I won't freeze him tomorrow. And to proove it, have someone counterclaim and freeze someone ELSE, or tomorrow I will freeze someone that the town asks to be a target.

Excuse me for not having this in my roleclaim post, but I'm still fairly new to this game.

[Geminex]

Okay, right.

Moogle, request that you modkill marius for playing to lose here. You do not fucking make a confirmed mafiate invulnerable just because he's a friend of yours, especially when you don't have any other targets lined up.

Bad judgement in-game is fine, what he did last day was cool. I could have been lying even if that was unlikely. Just freezing someone cause he's 'Your Friend' is not.

That isn't how you fucking play mafia.

Edit: If you'd care to undo Marius' sabotage as well, that'd be just peachy.

Edit2: Okay maybe this should have gone in a PM, sorry about that. I do stand by my point, though.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Well yesterday atleast got us on the road to lynching Karesh so I won't hold that against you marius, but I think we could've still left lynching Nikose as an option rather than instafreezing him.

Since that lead is now lost I don't know who to go for! Soooo, Im going for the person who is protecting him. That way we can atleast get Nik tomorrow.

Vote: Marius

[Geminex]

As a side note, I don't think we should lynch a confirmed townie. Get him modkilled, yes please, because what he's doing is pretty much against all the rules. Or at least against the one that says "Play to win".

But lynching him? Nah. Lynch is too valuable for that.

Edit: Also, I'm not quite sure Marius is telling the truth about his "I'm just fwiends wif Nikose" thing. The fact that moogle let him freeze nikose at all idicates that there's a bit more to this.

[BahamutFlare]

A 100% kill of a mafiate is always better than a chance against an unknown. Best case was that we lynch Nikose. Find out he's Robin. Then SK prob goes after Karesh. 2 mafia and we have the day to find new leads. Now town has to waste more days (which is their weapon) to kill one more likely mafiate.

If there is something about your daughter or something, I think that you may be in fact self-aligned bc a town goal would be to kill the mafiates. Helping one survive seems self-aligned.

It's not like we get any more info from Nikose.

And mod-kill would essentially waste a lynch and send it into night wouldn't it?

This is just frustrating.

[Geminex]

And mod-kill would essentially waste a lynch and send it into night wouldn't it?
Mod-kills generally don't waste a lynch. It wouldn't make sense for town to get further punished.

Gah this is stupid. What the hell, Marius.

[MariusTwilight]

In response to Gem, I didn't say that this day freeze was done because I'm friends. Todays freeze was because I thought it would be better to hunt for the remaining mafiates, since the known can be lynched at any time.

As for the "Play to Win" thing, I prefer to play games to have fun. Otherwise it stops being a game, and starts being a competition which is alot less fun.

[Bard The 5th LW]

We could very well have continued the hunt without removing our 100% chance target.

[Geminex]

Todays freeze was because I thought it would be better to hunt for the remaining mafiates, since the known can be lynched at any time.
Yes, and given that we don't know any of the others, it'd be smart to minimize our search pool first. We do that by killing known scum first, then, when scum has killed some of our players in return, we've got a smaller playerbase to search.

I mean in the end it's only a fraction, but still, dammit. There was absolutely no good reason to freeze Nik.

As for the "Play to Win" thing, I prefer to play games to have fun. Otherwise it stops being a game, and starts being a competition which is alot less fun.
Then don't freaking play mafia. You're part of a group here. Don't sabotage that group, even if you enjoy it.

Okay maybe I'm being a bit too harsh here, but geez. That was not a smart thing to do, and definitely not a smart thing to do twice.

[Aldurin]

That's a bad play by Marius on that. He needs to realize that we were going to get to this point of finding new targets after lynching Nikose. Now we aren't sure if we can nail a mafiate today and if we don't then that is a day wasted.

While you think that you choice follows a "play for fun" concept, there is a line between that and outright griefing.

Vote: Mr. Bookworm

He's been playing low profile the whole game and his recent jump to lynch a townie the moment it's confirmed sets off too many alarms.

[BahamutFlare]

Mod-kills generally don't waste a lynch. It wouldn't make sense for town to get further punished.

In the MLP mafia, Bookworm got mod-killed and sent the game into night. I believe it was MLP D1. But we did get Nique out of the way, so at least a mafiate died in the middle of the night. I didn't play this game, but I was told to read or skim part of it. So I remember this. Hopefully I remember correctly.

Maybe Marius is a town-aligned traitor? Self-aligned? Foolish? Maybe he is scum and helping his team by freezing. Maybe it's a godfather effect. D1 he froze a mafiate, D2 and 3 he froze mafiates. It just doesn't make sense what good can come out of this. Other then fun for Nikose.

And Marius, if this is about fun, then realize that in mafia, by doing this, you can ruin other people's fun. I'd feel a whole lot safer knowing one more mafiate is permanently gone.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Mod-kills generally don't waste a lynch. It wouldn't make sense for town to get further punished.

They've ended days before. Not unheard of!

[Moogle0119]

Ok, just got confirmation that both MariusTwilight and Nikose Tyris were communicating outside the thread. Although I specifically never stated in the sign up thread nor the opening post of this game that this was not allowed, it's very common knowledge that players are not allowed to interact with each other outside of the game thread unless stated otherwise (such as being fellow mafiates, masons, etc...). Someone new (such as Marius) I can ALMOST understand the slip up, but Nikose definitely knows better. As such...

MariusTwilight, Dr. Victor Fries (Mr. Freeze - Jailer) Arkham Asylum aligned and Nikose Tyris, Tim Drake (Robin) have been retconned out of continuity for cheating and banned from any future Mafia games that I run.

Still Day 3. 11 active players makes 6 for a lynch.

P.S. Apparently Fenris was cheating too (was also in communication with both Marius and Nikose previously outside the thread about the game). He's a mod, but consider him added to the list too unless I'm not allowed to ban people anyway.

Edit: Directed to those who are cheating: You all are grown-ups, I shouldn't have to baby sit anyone to make sure people are following the rules. But if you want to break the rules like that, then I can treat you like children if that's the case.

Double Edit (for more clarifying): I don't like being a dick, but people who are cheating are just ruining the other players fun. And quite frankly I'm making and running this game to make sure everyone is having fun. So it's not fair that a few individuals get to break the rules and ruin others enjoyment.

[Geminex]

That's settled, then. Kinda shitty but oh well. I'll reserve judgement till the postgame. For now, we've got Nikose outta the way, and Marius won't be interfering anymore, so that's cool.

Now. Who to lynch?

Don't think Bookie's a major target. He went for Karesh pretty hard last day, and I don't think scum would've done that. Nique stayed back, and I think the rest of scum might have as well.

Uhm.

Not sure who to hit, though. Bahamutflare is a bit fishy, since he was kinda the only one who even mentioned the fact that Hawk2 might be an SK. Kinda implies that his words had a lot of influence on Scum. Though then again, Nikose accused RO of being SK as well so... Blah.

Gonna go through the thread again.

[Aldurin]

Ok, now that's out of the way . . .

I'm still going to keep my vote on Bookworm, but that's all I have right now. Anyone have thoughts/leads?

[Bard The 5th LW]

I really dont know who to go for now.

[Ravashak]

Player List
1. Geminex Claimed Riddler: 1-shot investigative
2. Bard The 5th LW
3. Nikose Tyris, Tim Drake (Robin) Retconned Day 3.
4. Aldurin Claimed Thomas Elliot: Miller
5. Hawk, Bane Arkham Asylum aligned Incarcerated Night 1.
6. Mr. Bookworm
7. Inbred Chocobo Claimed Killer Croc: Vanilla
8. Gregness
9. Fenris, Professor Jonathan Crane (The Scarecrow - Roleblocker) Arkham Asylum aligned Killed Night 1.
10. greed
11. Ravashak
12. IHateMakingNames, Cyrus Gold (Solomon Grundy - BG) Arkham Asylum aligned Lynched Day 1.
13. BahamutFlare
14. Oron
15. MariusTwilight, Dr. Victor Fries (Mr. Freeze - Jailer) Arkham Asylum aligned Retconned Day 3.
16. Nique, Bruce Wayne (Batman) Killed Night 2.
17. Karesh, Barbara Gordon (Batgirl) Lynched Day 2.
18. Hawk2 (originally Revolving Ocelot), Jason Todd (Red Hood – Serial Killer) Killed Night 2.
19. P-SleazyPlayer list from the first page editted with the claims as as collected by Aldurin in day 2.

Based on the results of day 2, I consider Geminex to be confirmed town. Going to read back to see how enthousiastic people were about lynching Karesh.

[Ravashak]

For now, I'll

Vote: Oron

Since Oron seemed the most active in trying to protect Karesh, trying to prevent a lynch on a teammate while not being too obvious about it. This suspicion of mine isn't too strong, but it's more than nothing.

[Geminex]

I've been thinking about Oron as well, but he went for Nikose pretty quickly. He later got hesitant about Karesh but other than that, he's made a pretty good impression on me.

Earl is interesting. I was about to discount him 'cause of the way he got Nikose to roleclaim, but then something struck me as strange. Nikose claimed a role that would need confirmation by another player in order to be plausible. And when I said I'd believe him only if he got confirmed, he agreed pretty quickly. Makes me think that the whole claim thing was set up ahead of time in order to get him and Karesh to confirm each other. As such, Earl's challenge to get Nikose to claim could have been prearranged too.

Plus, he wasn't, ultimately, in on the Karesh lynch, voting for me instead.

On the other hand, I don't see why scum would claim Miller that early on. It does draw one hell of a lot of suspicion.

Hmm. I'd feel okay with going after earl if we don't get any better leads.

IHMN IF YOU ARE READING THIS THEN YOU GET ALL THE VINDICATION IF EARL TURNS OUT SCUM
ALL OF IT

I'm looking over the rest of the list though.

[BahamutFlare]

Gem: RO basically admitted to being SK bc he wouldn't or couldn't defend himself from it. I went through that phase of my life and was able to directly pick it up upon seeing it. I guess being broken before I was able to figure it out. It turns out my suspicions were right. He was scum.

Vote: Aldurin

1) You're immune to PO and mafia kills. The last part may not have been a slip-up but rather, you're part of them. Why would Batman target mafia? Makes your story more believable to town. Doesn't hurt mafia.

2) You're voting patterns have been poor in my opinion. Why did you try to get people voting for Gem instead of Karesh? I think you've been constantly making people look everywhere for false accusations.

3) The freakout early game may have been a tell. And probably was a tell.

4) Nikose was pretty firm on saying your story made sense. Don't suspect Aldurin. He makes sense.

If you're mafia, then we get a HUGE block of mostly confirmed townies imo. If you're town, you're confusing as heck.

Meant to post this but snow took down my internet.

[Aldurin]

Yeah, poor voting on my part because I didn't really know who the fuck to believe. Like I've said in D2, if you feel that lynching me will help town out, then go right ahead. But like BF just said, it will only be the most helpful if I turn up scum (which I won't), and that turning up town doesn't give too much info either.

So if you feel ok with lynching the miller to reduce suspects, I'll be ok with that as long as it doesn't go down to "now what?" again after I die. It is a pretty awful role to have that I didn't play as well as I should have so I won't hold it against you guys.

Now in case we don't lynch me . . .

Vote: Oron

I agree with Ravashak on the reasoning, and I honestly feel better about voting him than anyone else that we've lynched.

[Revising Ocelot]

Gem: RO basically admitted to being SK bc he wouldn't or couldn't defend himself from it.

No I fucking didn't you fucking moron. I got accused with zero evidence. I said I can't counter-argue an empty argument. Learn to fucking read.

Are you fucking fuckwits so fucked up in the head that you need a point-blank statement of "i are not sk hurr" in every single post because fuck me you'll take anything as evidence of your arrogant ego-fuelled "superiority"

consider this a death post asshole

[Bard The 5th LW]

Ignoring that I guess I'll just pitch the vote I was going to try D1.

Vote: Aldurin

My suspicion levels of him have been fluctuating admittedly but a lynch is a lynch so why not.

[POS Industries]

No I fucking didn't you fucking moron. I got accused with zero evidence. I said I can't counter-argue an empty argument. Learn to fucking read.

Are you fucking fuckwits so fucked up in the head that you need a point-blank statement of "i are not sk hurr" in every single post because fuck me you'll take anything as evidence of your arrogant ego-fuelled "superiority"

consider this a death post asshole
Waaaaay over the line, RO. Consider yourself warned.

Also just another friendly reminder to everyone that each post like this is another step towards us going back to the days when mafia games were not allowed on the forums. Keep that in mind in the future. Not that there's a huge dramasplosion going on here or anything, so it's not like you guys need to be too worried.

[Oron]

After waiting for a few hours, I think my Internet connection's finally stabilized. Let's see how long this lasts.

About the deal with Karesh... well, here's the deal:

I wasn't joking about the honesty thing. At first, I thought he was Arkham-aligned. It fit with Nikose's claim nicely. But I wasn't sure about it, and there was Gem's claim. I didn't like the situation, so my whole post about that was mostly to slow things down for a little more discussion. But I was also fishing for a response from Karesh. If he had said anything about how he really was Arkham Asylum-aligned, then I would have kept believing him (because I'm dumb and trusting like that). Instead he admitted that he would lie if he were scum and I began to think he was scum. My reasoning is that I figured that if he were Clay Face, he wouldn't have made any statement other than that he is indeed Clay Face (like how he acted as Fluttershy in the MLP game). So I backed off the whole deal and started preparing to make a vote post explaining all of this. And then my wireless network kept dropping me.

Now that he's been lynched and Nikose is out, I'm just as clueless as I was Day One. I suppose Earl's a good vote. I did figure him for town early on, but I also thought that way about Karesh at first, so there's that. And then there's the IHMN lynch that happened and his weird voting behavior that Bahamut pointed out. I won't vote yet because I want to see more info first, and I'll hope that I can actually connect in time to place a vote later this Day.

[Geminex]

Okay, sleep time. Maybe things will make more sense in the morning.

Just posting to say 2 things. First, 6 to lynch, people. Don't go on an earl-voting spree, let's try to consider all the options.

Second, any mason groups? This would be as good a time as any to show yourselves, maybe we can build a nice bloc of town.

[Fenris]

MariusTwilight, Dr. Victor Fries (Mr. Freeze - Jailer) Arkham Asylum aligned and Nikose Tyris, Tim Drake (Robin) have been retconned out of continuity for cheating and banned from any future Mafia games that I run.

Still Day 3. 11 active players makes 6 for a lynch.

P.S. Apparently Fenris was cheating too (was also in communication with both Marius and Nikose previously outside the thread about the game). He's a mod, but consider him added to the list too unless I'm not allowed to ban people anyway.

I was in communication with Nikose, but not Marius.

Still not right of me to do, clearly, but at least get your facts straight?

[P-Sleazy]

Ok, well, I just got done with a two day trip to Charleston. I see that you're all really strong on Oron, but somehow, I'm not buying it. But that could just be because I'm usually typically cautious of voting for people when there's a bandwagon forming.

[Geminex]

Well, like I said. Oron was uncertain, but he supported me against Nikose fairly quickly, and he really just said we should take things slow for Karesh. I'm giving him a pass for that.

As for the rest... gah. There's a couple of players I feel pretty confident about. And others I don't.
Greed, for one, has been silent to the point of inactivity. 2 posts, 1 vote. He's either super-busy or hiding something. Though he hasn't been that active on the rest of the forum. P-Sleazy has been making a lot of jokeposts, and his only vote during the nikose-karesh episode was for IC, of all people. Though holding off on oron does kinda speak in his favor.
Ravashak has been okay in terms of content, but fell suspicously silent during the karesh-nikose epipsode.

Gah.

[Oron]

Well, let's take another look at the current role claims we've got.

Geminex is basically our only confirmed role right now. He's pretty cut and dry given that little fiasco ending up in revealing Nikose's role and confirming Gem.

Inbred Chocobo claimed Killer Croc. Nobody's contested it, and vanilla's pretty bland. Could be a cover, but he went after Nikose/Karesh.

Earl's miller claim is still curious. Given Nikose's knowledge of Batman and Mafia, I would have expected him to create role claims for the other vigilantes to use in this scenario. Also being immune to death-by-Batman (or incarceration, I guess - Bats wouldn't try to kill him) was the catch for most of us, I think. So his role could have been forged, maybe. But then Nique turned up Batman, and why would Earl lie about being the miller if he wasn't Batman? Another reason to consider not voting for him this day is that if we do lynch him and he does turn up town, then we have no leads. So...

I guess we could look at each player and evaluate how scummy they appear to us. Given how many characters there are in the Batman universe, anybody could just make something up (and it looks like there's a safe list), so I don't know how useful a role call would be. It's still a possibility, though. I'm guessing there's only one or two vigilantes at most who are still alive.

And I guess all the kill roles are dead after that last Night, huh?

[Oron]

Looking back, Nikose said there were three Bat-mafiates left. Without him I guess there's two.

[Moogle0119]

I was in communication with Nikose, but not Marius.

Still not right of me to do, clearly, but at least get your facts straight?

Sorry, you cheated with one other player and not two. Duly noted.

Deadline in 48 hours.

[Inbred Chocobo]

I've been thinking here on who to go for. Oron, I don't know, I can't really get a feel for his posts. They read more as a confused townie than anything else. I tell you who I can't get a reading out of at all, greed and P-sleazy. Those two just bother me with their not posting. (I barely remember that greed is in the game, and P-sleazy, he is working apparently).

Aldurin, well here is the thing. Nikose provided deterrence from lynching him. Weird thing about it though was that he was referencing that it was such an obscure character that fit the role. However, we now know Nikose was scum, and considering his vast knowledge, its not too far fetched to say the role was fabricated by him and given to Aldurin.

The only thing that throws me off though was the timing of the claim, because Aldurin did it quick, like really quick. He claimed because he saw a scum claim, so it would've been an extremely quick claim for that to happen, so I'm not sure. I'm not really feeling it for him, but if everyone goes for him I'm not going to go out of my way to stop it.

Interesting note, Gregness and Oron were apart of the lot, with Nique, Karesh, and Nikose were apart of, that tossed their hat in the ring of IC wanting to lynch Nikose was weird because he either explained too hard or said it was due to gut feeling. That lot also had Aldurin in it.

Of course, you people were convinced I was scum until Gem did his saving grace to prove Nikose was scum once and for all, so whatever, its not like I don't know what I am talking about.

Vote: BahamutFlare

So here is my issue. If I say its gut feeling, you guys won't trust me. If I explain my thought process, you realize I will go on a rant, and then lynch me because I went on it. So here is what I am going to say.

I am not familiar with his posting style, but it reeks of just going with the flow, not trying to get on anyone's radar, or appear scum at all. So there, do what you will with that.

[Geminex]

Dude, you went after Nikose pretty hard, you have some town credits. I mean, we might not agree with you but unless you really screw the pooch, I don't think you're getting lynched.

Mind you, the succint version works too.

I dunno, though. Bahamut went after both Nikose and Karesh really quickly, and stood behind by claim pretty well. If you think we could learn more from a bit of in-depth analysis, I'd be glad to read it.

[Aldurin]

I figure I might as well give some extra info to town that I think clarifies the weirdness of Geminex's role. At the end N1 I got a message from Moogle, saying that The Scarecrow used a fear toxin on me to learn my worst fear, which I was told was never to fulfill my revenge against Batman. The next day Fenris turned up as The Scarecrow, but labeled a roleblocker. At the time I was still unsure of what I should reveal after realizing it was a mistake to let everyone know that Batman couldn't kill me, and I felt it wasn't really relevant.

Now after some thought, I found it really weird that Geminex had only 1 shot for his investigation, but then I considered my Scarecrow interaction and I've figured out this. Geminex is meant to be able to make one "full" investigation on someone, and he would be the one to get a false reading if he scanned me. I assume that Fenris would have gotten back the "greatest fear" flavor from roleblocking me, acting like a semi-PO, which would be unaffected by my Miller role. Basically what I'm saying is that our intended investigator the whole game was Fenris, who would receive flavor clues to the identity of the player (with the added bonus of roleblocking), and Geminex could provide one solid reading that would plainly say who the person was. That's how I see it, but in terms of balance Fenris would be pretty overpowered compared to Geminex.

Just thought you guys would like to know, so that you don't invest too much in a second PO to show up.

[Aldurin]

To respond to IC's post, the reason I looked like I was defending Nikose was I didn't like how you were presenting your arguments against him, specifically when talking about the D1 lynch. You were just pushing it really hard and the descriptions you put on that list without much immediate explanation just bothered me. It did inadvertently defend Nikose (though I probably should have keyed into the fact that Nikose repping me for that post was off (don't worry, Moogle, it was a blank rep that I can screenshot for you if you want)).

So I do apologize for going after you D2, since my quest for clarification on arguments kinda misled me.

[Inbred Chocobo]

I dunno, though. Bahamut went after both Nikose and Karesh really quickly, and stood behind by claim pretty well. If you think we could learn more from a bit of in-depth analysis, I'd be glad to read it.
Alright sure,

~~~ACTIVE POWER! ANALYSIS OF BAHAMUTFLARE ACTIVATE~~~
No this isn't actually a power I'm just marking it.

Bah's first post was a stating IHMN in agreement to lynching the miller, and an FOS on Hawk for his joke claim miller, which was about a day ago and had already at that time been re-stated it was a response to another joke post. He also states it was a quick scan, so whatever, but still. He proceeds to chastise P-Sleaze a bit, then goes on about Aldurin's "freakout" which was really Ald being Ald and how that was scum behavior, and votes for him.

Oron and Fenris argue some points, and interesting enough, Bah points out he is in the middle of about what it would be to lynch Ald, not enough to be an initiator, but not far enough to be a final nail in the coffin, just you know, going with what everyone else was saying. Fenris makes a point, and Bah agrees.

Lynch happens on IHMN between this post an the next one

Bah jumps in on the bandwagon as well for IC posting scummy, or saying we should lynch Nikose based off feelings as scum activity. This is after a couple people say so. He also adds in, still not liking Aldy.

He also responded to RO's ragequit, with chirping in about him not being able to defend himself against SK claims, that everyone else was typing in. Also expresses concern for RO having to quit, worrying about him.

Then he is back to going between Aldy and me. Seriously though, he has been sitting on Aldurin and wanting to lynch him a lot lately. This is throwing me off.

People start seeming in favor of lynching me, then suddenly people start expressing they are concerned, but then hesitant just because of feeling. I think two different people stated it before Bah chirped it echoing it. He is quiet all the way up until the time period that everyone starts the vote train on Nikose.

He tries to clear up some clarification from my post, and states that he is always confused by Gem.

He then tosses in his own theories here about lynching between Karesh and Gem, fine, whatever everyone else is doing it. Also restates some infor for Hawk about why the thought was RO was SK. Hawk basically responds, well I'm not SK, and if Hawk's post was a facebook status, Bah's reply would've been a like.

Bah joins the argument about mod-killing, then helps out referencing some old information about another game. Finally, when we are all trying to figure out who to lynch, he brings up Aldurin.


Summary: All his posts have been basically, yeah I like that, or yeah, we can do that, or hey here is what they are talking about. I don't know, feels like that boy scout kind of good, which is something easy to fake. He is always defaulting to going after Aldurin too, nothing else either.

I'll be honest though, this isn't anything like I had against Nikose, but its right now the most that is bothering me.

[Aldurin]

I'm just going to throw this out here in case I'm right and if so to prevent Geminex from making me look bad from this.

I don't think Geminex is actually a 1-shot PO. I figure he's pulling the reverse of what I did in the MLP game, where he claims to be a 1-shot so that he can reveal his first scan early without making himself a major target. This is assuming Moogle wants to balance the game and having a 1-shot PO and a Roleblocker Semi-PO doesn't add up.

[Inbred Chocobo]

I'm just going to throw this out here in case I'm right and if so to prevent Geminex from making me look bad from this.

I don't think Geminex is actually a 1-shot PO. I figure he's pulling the reverse of what I did in the MLP game, where he claims to be a 1-shot so that he can reveal his first scan early without making himself a major target. This is assuming Moogle wants to balance the game and having a 1-shot PO and a Roleblocker Semi-PO doesn't add up.

Aldurin, lets talk for a second.

If you think that a PO that claims is a 1-shot, but is actually a regular PO, why would they claim to be a 1-shot?

The main reason is that scum would then be likely to go, oh well I know who the PO is now, and we shall go after him.

So uh, once in a while, you need to keep certain thoughts to yourself, and not just open them up.

Just to clarify though, I really do think that Gem was a one-shot guy, as I am willing to be a lot of different people have small ways to figure out roles from clues.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Aldurin that is the last thing you are supposed to say outloud really.

But if Gem had more than one investigation I think hed come forth with the results by to give us a better pool of candidates considering scum probably only has 1 or 2 members left (think just 1).

[Aldurin]

http://forums.timegate.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2596&stc=1&d=1306963135
Dammit, dammit, dammit dammit. Derps on my part, go ahead and lynch me so I shut up.

[BahamutFlare]

IC, I've thought Aldurin was most suspicious from D1, and I continue to abide by it. I also thought RO was scum. I abide by it. It turns out I was right. I had a 90% shot that Hawk2 was SK. So when he answered, I 'liked' it as it were so that he wouldn't kill me that night hoping someone else would pipe up more. You don't go after the SK publicly if you have no means of taking him out. In which case, you take things a bit more carefully.

I thought Aldurin was fine for part of a day. But from the start and more recently, I'm thinking scum. I think that at least one scum is one of the people that are trying to be inactive. And I think out of the candidates, Aldurin is a lot more suspicious. If someone could give me reasons to trust him, that would be great. Even now, I've thought it possible Gem to be a reg PO, but bad Aldurin for saying that out loud.

Scum needs to have less information, not more possibilities.

IC, obviously I did vote for you, and I stepped on your toes. How I didn't step on Aldurin's is beyond me. And I stepped on RO and Hawk2 and Hawk1 to a slighter degree.

One thing, people that voted for IHMN
Aldurin - leaning scum
Nique - scum
Gem - town
Rav - unknown
Fenris - Influenced by Nikose maybe
RO - scum

I wonder how many scum or scum influenced or scum votes were on this lynch. Really just a random thought. It'd be funny if 4/6 or 5/6 were scum.

[P-Sleazy]

I've been thinking here on who to go for. Oron, I don't know, I can't really get a feel for his posts. They read more as a confused townie than anything else. I tell you who I can't get a reading out of at all, greed and P-sleazy. Those two just bother me with their not posting. (I barely remember that greed is in the game, and P-sleazy, he is working apparently).
If I was trying to sell the ruse, I'd be purposely making sure to post only during certain times, By no means should my working be an excuse. Especially since I bet 80-90% of us are now at a working age, I should be able to devote as much time to this as the rest of you since I've committed to it. SO please, don't count that as an "explanation" for why i'm being a crappy player (ie, not reading stuff). I really don't want this kind of thing to become a norm for "oh, well (s)he's got X going on, so thats why they aren't posting much or well". Lets get some kind of enforcement on why committing to these things is more than just "oh, I'll spend 5 minutes a day, read the last 5 posts and go from there". Which, admittedly, is what I've been doing (even though, yes, I have work, I committed, so I should be doing more than 5 minutes a day).

[Aldurin]

Alright sure,

~~~ACTIVE POWER! ANALYSIS OF BAHAMUTFLARE ACTIVATE~~~
No this isn't actually a power I'm just marking it.

Bah's first post was a stating IHMN in agreement to lynching the miller, and an FOS on Hawk for his joke claim miller, which was about a day ago and had already at that time been re-stated it was a response to another joke post. He also states it was a quick scan, so whatever, but still. He proceeds to chastise P-Sleaze a bit, then goes on about Aldurin's "freakout" which was really Ald being Ald and how that was scum behavior, and votes for him.

Oron and Fenris argue some points, and interesting enough, Bah points out he is in the middle of about what it would be to lynch Ald, not enough to be an initiator, but not far enough to be a final nail in the coffin, just you know, going with what everyone else was saying. Fenris makes a point, and Bah agrees.

Lynch happens on IHMN between this post an the next one

Bah jumps in on the bandwagon as well for IC posting scummy, or saying we should lynch Nikose based off feelings as scum activity. This is after a couple people say so. He also adds in, still not liking Aldy.

He also responded to RO's ragequit, with chirping in about him not being able to defend himself against SK claims, that everyone else was typing in. Also expresses concern for RO having to quit, worrying about him.

Then he is back to going between Aldy and me. Seriously though, he has been sitting on Aldurin and wanting to lynch him a lot lately. This is throwing me off.

People start seeming in favor of lynching me, then suddenly people start expressing they are concerned, but then hesitant just because of feeling. I think two different people stated it before Bah chirped it echoing it. He is quiet all the way up until the time period that everyone starts the vote train on Nikose.

He tries to clear up some clarification from my post, and states that he is always confused by Gem.

He then tosses in his own theories here about lynching between Karesh and Gem, fine, whatever everyone else is doing it. Also restates some infor for Hawk about why the thought was RO was SK. Hawk basically responds, well I'm not SK, and if Hawk's post was a facebook status, Bah's reply would've been a like.

Bah joins the argument about mod-killing, then helps out referencing some old information about another game. Finally, when we are all trying to figure out who to lynch, he brings up Aldurin.


Summary: All his posts have been basically, yeah I like that, or yeah, we can do that, or hey here is what they are talking about. I don't know, feels like that boy scout kind of good, which is something easy to fake. He is always defaulting to going after Aldurin too, nothing else either.

I'll be honest though, this isn't anything like I had against Nikose, but its right now the most that is bothering me.

Just took a closer look at this than before and I have to agree that Bahamut has played the safe game too well.

Unvote: Oron

Vote: BahamutFlare

Even though this probably won't take hold over the lynch against me, look at him next (especially as what IC was saying about how he was opposing himself to me often) once I turn up town.

[BahamutFlare]

""Summary: All his posts have been basically, yeah I like that, or yeah, we can do that, or hey here is what they are talking about. I don't know, feels like that boy scout kind of good, which is something easy to fake. He is always defaulting to going after Aldurin too, nothing else either. ""

It's not a default btw. Rather, no one can tell me why he's good. I've given a list of multiple reasons why I think he is scum. And no one has given me counter-reasons. I've thought him scum D1.

With the statement, 'Ald is being Ald', do you know how easy it is to use that as an excuse? People can change their game or play like scum if they're being themselves? You'll play with me more. You'll see how cautious I am. There's 0 reason for me to throw a vote at every person that seems a tiny bit scummy. Rather my strategy is to target one person at a time and stick with it. Why? Because I can only vote once a day. Doing so creates less enemies. Scum doesn't see you as an intellectual threat. If Hawk2 was alive right now, I'd sure as heck be giving it my all to see him lynched more than Aldurin and I'd bring up my 4-5 reasons I had. If I can only vote, and so far my voting has been Aldurin, IC for a while, Nikose, Karesh, Nikose, Aldurin. I retracted IC's vote. I don't think you're 100% town, but you're pretty high up there. Other than that, explain to me why I was some of the first people to go after Karesh while you went after Gem. Why would Gem out himself as scum to kill one specific maybe 2 specific people? Answer: He wouldn't. So I therefore assumed Nikose was lying after that. And Karesh with him. Even Karesh's roleclaim was Clayface yadda yadda. You mean you can't copy and paste the last part of your role? I notice the little things and I say those are the reasons.

What makes me nervous is that we have 4 active people, IC, me, Gem, Aldurin. If we're all townies, then that just sucks. If one of us is a mafiate, it's a lot easier to bandwagon. 2 may be a killing number with lynch votes if they wait until the deadline.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Hmmm, that is a good argument for your playstyle, and honestly I don't know it. I tend to find inactives are not scum though is the problem. I seriously think greed is nothing to worry about, but P-sleazy I can't say the same thing. Problem is that his job has made his posting irregular, so I can't really get much from what little posting he has done, except he isn't paying much attention to the thread.

Actually, that makes me curious about something. P is trying hard to stay in this game, I feel like he has a vested interest in this game, a very high one. P, I would like for you to roleclaim. In fact, let us have everyone roleclaim now, since we are down to so few people active and not, and we can pick apart people from there.

Unvote: Bahamutflare

To give time for the claims and such, no need to rush through this day.

[Ravashak]

First off:
Unvote: Oron
As I said, the suspicion was weak, and the explanation was good enough for me to put you down to equal suspicion level as the others (exceptions exist, obviously =þ)
Well, let's take another look at the current role claims we've got.

Geminex is basically our only confirmed role right now. He's pretty cut and dry given that little fiasco ending up in revealing Nikose's role and confirming Gem.Agreed, as I've said before.

Inbred Chocobo claimed Killer Croc. Nobody's contested it, and vanilla's pretty bland. Could be a cover, but he went after Nikose/Karesh.I actually believe the vanilla claim, since I'm a vanilla as well. Since IC asked for a roleclaim, I might as well give it at this point. I'm Harvey Dent (Two-Face)

Earl's miller claim is still curious. Given Nikose's knowledge of Batman and Mafia, I would have expected him to create role claims for the other vigilantes to use in this scenario. Also being immune to death-by-Batman (or incarceration, I guess - Bats wouldn't try to kill him) was the catch for most of us, I think. So his role could have been forged, maybe. But then Nique turned up Batman, and why would Earl lie about being the miller if he wasn't Batman? Another reason to consider not voting for him this day is that if we do lynch him and he does turn up town, then we have no leads. So...Yeah, Nique turning up to be Batman gives some credit to the story.

I guess we could look at each player and evaluate how scummy they appear to us. Given how many characters there are in the Batman universe, anybody could just make something up (and it looks like there's a safe list), so I don't know how useful a role call would be. It's still a possibility, though. I'm guessing there's only one or two vigilantes at most who are still alive.Judged on past experiences, I fail at this, so I'd prefer not to be the one for others to base suspicions on.

And I guess all the kill roles are dead after that last Night, huh?other than the remaining members of Batman's group. If all were dead, Arkham Asylum aligned's win condition would've been cleared

[Geminex]

Hmm. You know what's weird.

I'm no batman scholar.

But I've been thinking about the possible composition of our scumteam.
And I would've been willing to bet that it'd include a godfather. That is to say a character who wouldn't show up as scum in investigations, but who was nevertheless on the scum side.

And the only real character I could think of who'd fit that role would have been harvey Dent, aka Twoface. Mostly cause of the fact that before he adopts his twoface thing, he's a pretty good guy. District attorney and all.

Plus, Ravashak was on my suspicionlist for not saying anything or voting during the nikose-karesh thing.

So, uhm. Thoughts?
My only real batman education comes from watching The Dark Knight on a plane, so you guys probably know more than me.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Two-Face is pretty definitely a villain. Him as Harvey Dent is his origin story, not an ongoing thing, and the two phases of his life are distinct from each other. And Two-Face swings between "reasonable lunatic" and "homicidal murderer", not "good guy" and "bad guy".

So, yeah, maybe possible, but very unlikely.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Just going to pitch in to say that Vanilla claims are pretty reasonable from my perspective. I'm vanilla myself.

[Moogle0119]

I'm still at work but checking the thread from my phone it appears the deadline is up and Aldrin has the most votes. I'll do a lynch post sometime later tonight when I can get to a computer.

[Moogle0119]

Sorry for the delay everyone, I never got a chance to get to a computer last night. Luckily I'm at my 2nd job and have some time to post. Back to the game now...

Final vote count

Aludrin (2)
BahamutFlare
Bard the 5th LW

BahamutFlare (1)
Aldurin

The inmates knew they were coming close to controlling Gotham once and for all. Even the mighty Batman had fallen. While the inmates were deciding on who else had been helping Batman out, one of the inmates noticed that one of their own sounded exactly like Batman himself. The voice was uncannily similar and so they inmates ripped the bandages off the inmate's head to find that Bruce Wayne was hiding amongst them the entire time! The man tried to plea with them to listen, and that he was not really Bruce Wayne, but the inmates knew what they saw. It didn't take long for them to end his life, but after his death a DNA test was done, since there were now two dead bodies of Bruce Wayne, and it turns out that this person was Aldurin, Dr. Thomas "Tommy" Elliot (Hush - Miller) Arkham Asylum aligned.

It is now Night 3. 48 hours for all night roles to be submitted before Day 4 begins (or less depending on how fast I receive the night roles).

[Moogle0119]

Night fell upon Gotham once more, only this night was different. This night, Gotham was not protected by the Batman, and the criminals of Gotham knew it. Around every corner, it seemed a store was being broken into or someone was being robbed at gun point. The Riddler saw this as his chance to finally commit crimes that nobody could solve and started with the robbing of Gotham National Bank. The Riddler waited anxiously behind a pair of armed thugs while he watched another one of his goons try to open the vault. With his eyes fixated on the prize, he didn’t notice the two Wing-Dings being thrown from seemingly nowhere to knock out both armed thugs. He heard their bodies collapse to the floor, but by the time he turned around he was greeted with a kick to the stomach which sent him flying into a nearby desk. His assailant then performed a quadruple somersault over another desk and took out the final thug that had just finished opening the safe.

“You! I knew you were still around!” the Riddler said as he struggled to get up.

“Sure you did.” the man sarcastically said back to him with a grin.

“Any simpleton would have guessed that you would try to fill in due to Batman’s absence. We already know who Batman was, along with others of his entourage. It’s only a matter of time before we find out who you are as well.” said the Riddler with a smirk.

The young man’s eyes narrowed at that remark and he swiftly punched Geminex, Edward Nigma (The Riddler – PO) Arkham Asylum aligned so hard he knocked him out cold. “Not if I have anything to say about it. You’re going back to Arkham in the meantime."



Day 4 begins. With 9 players left that leaves 5 needed to lynch. No deadline yet.

[Geminex]

http://i.imgur.com/WrYGG.jpg

[Ravashak]

Not too surprised they took out Geminex. Heck, I'd have done it the night after he claimed and outed a mafiate, just in case (especially with the BG out already)

And it might just be missing Moogle's timelimit, but for now,
FoS: Inbred Chocobo

[Inbred Chocobo]

Wow, I didn't even realize Moogle put up a time limit until he said day was over. I had to go back and find it, bah!.

Well, I would like to go with my original plan, have everyone roleclaim to see what their roles are, and judge them by the weight of that.

[Ravashak]

Fair enough, I saw it, but due to it being a tad past midnight, I thought we had another day.

[BahamutFlare]

Wow, I didn't even realize Moogle put up a time limit until he said day was over. I had to go back and find it, bah!.

Well, I would like to go with my original plan, have everyone roleclaim to see what their roles are, and judge them by the weight of that.

Neither did I. Really abrupt day end.

Ra's al Ghul is the name. Vanilla is my game.

Give me a little bit of time to think. Really I don't have any information on half the players, and I think IC is town Ravashak. I'm not understanding the FoS.

[Moogle0119]

....I gave everyone 48 hours notice that the deadline was coming. I wouldn't really call that an "abrupt" end of the day. Seems like nobody bothered to read my earlier post :(

Edit: linked for reference.

Sorry, you cheated with one other player and not two. Duly noted.

Deadline in 48 hours.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Yeah but it was just one post. Every other post of yours said, no deadline, no deadline, no deadline. So yeah, doing a quick glanceover, it was just hard to spot that you didn't have a deadline except to a random response from Fenris.

Whatever though, its done and I don't want to worry about it.

Back to roleclaiming people. Once we have a few, I'll start putting pressure on ones I don't like, or people that have failed too, whatever meets my fancy.

[Ravashak]

and I think IC is town Ravashak. I'm not understanding the FoS.I'm leaning a bit towards IC being town too, that's why I put it as a FoS instead of a vote, I wanted (and got) an explanation.

[Oron]

So I guess we're doing the role call, then.

Pamela Lillian Isley (Poison Ivy) Arkham Asylum aligned. No power.

Typing this up on my phone and I'm pretty busy with school work, but I should be good to go tomorrow. Maybe the rest will role claim by then.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Has IC already roleclaimed? I basically trust hm now but Id prefer for the person taking role to roleclaim as well.

[Mr.Bookworm]

I am Julian Day, the Calendar Man. Vanilla.

Pretty sure that just killing every single person with a clever name in Gotham would at the very least halve the crime rate.

[Ravashak]

For Bard:
Roleclaim:Waylon Jones (Killer Croc) Arkham Asylum aligned

I'm powerless, so really I'm just a named vanilla townie. If you guys have such a hardon to lynch me, then when that is revealed lynch Nikose and the aldurin.Yes, IC claimed, a fair while back already.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Well then I am Roman Sionis (Black mask) Arkham Asylum aligned. No powers to speak of.

[Ravashak]

Living Player List (+claim)
Bard The 5th LW, Black Mask
Mr. Bookworm, Calendar Man
Inbred Chocobo, Killer Croc
Gregness
greed
Ravashak, Two-Face
BahamutFlare, Ra's al Ghul
Oron, Poison Ivy
P-Sleazy
Here's a list of living players, and the claims so far.

And a question regarding the night kill. Which living char aligned with Batman uses Wing-Dings?

[Inbred Chocobo]

Vote: Bard

This sounds weird and baseless, but I simply dislike the way the claim was made. Compared to others, Oron is the second most likely so far. I am also up for voting P-sleazy and Gregness until they claim. We shall see.

[Mr.Bookworm]

And a question regarding the night kill. Which living char aligned with Batman uses Wing-Dings?

Dick Grayson/Nightwing.

Also...

I dunno. I'm kind of leaning a bit towards Bahamut, but I'd like to dig a little deeper before voting.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Vote: Bard

This sounds weird and baseless, but I simply dislike the way the claim was made. Compared to others, Oron is the second most likely so far. I am also up for voting P-sleazy and Gregness until they claim. We shall see.

Sorta is baseless yeah.

[P-Sleazy]

The Joker

Also, Gregness is Harley Quinn.

We're both Arkham aligned. And we're masoned with each other (ghasp! What a surprise!).

And yes, I know, that looks awkard that we're conveniently a two man mason group when there's only two mafiates left. I didn't want to roleclaim earlier cause of the red hood being after my life (even though there was then a whole day of him not being around that I coulda roleclaimed).

[Inbred Chocobo]

I can see that claim for Mason. I would like Gregness to confirm, but I seriously doubt he will say something other than yes. That leaves greed needing to claim.

So, if we can't find anyone better, we could lynch greed for inactivity. Problem with that is I tend to see inactives are normally townies who just hold no interest in a game, so I would rather not. I would still like to see his claim though if he ever shows up.

And everyone else claimed Vanilla. Alright then, at least everyone put a name next to their claim, and as I thought, Gem was just an actual PO, but never mentioned who he investigated besides Nikose. He may have left clues, so I may read over his posts when I get some time.

For now, vote stays on Bard until I think of something better. Yeah, its baseless, but its gut, and right now it is what I have. Its nothing like the raging hard on I had to lynch Nikose with, but I still have doubts about him, also may look over his posts, see if I am feeling anything else.

I can see Bahamut, and now after that claim I can see him being that as well. So not sure, weirdly enough.

Need some time to collect my thoughts, I've been working too much.

[BahamutFlare]

IC, you picked the most formal role claims. That's where your suspicions lie.

One concern I have is that P-Sleazy had an inactive character be Harley. If scum had a safelist, which I think we can assume is the case since everyone has a decent role claim (Although Calendar man is such a weird villain). A masoned role is usually something you want to not be inactive for too (using IC's reason for not wanting to lynch Greed). Part of me wonders if this is an attempt to look town. I'm going to wait until Gregness says something before I believe anything.

FoS: P-Sleazy

On the other hand, Bard, why would you believe there to be only 1 mafiate left. You said shortly after Nikose said we had 2 left, you thought there was probably 1. Which if there is one, then P-Sleazy would be confirmed.

FoS: Bard

Moogle, can you poke people not talking or something?

[Bard The 5th LW]

On the other hand, Bard, why would you believe there to be only 1 mafiate left. You said shortly after Nikose said we had 2 left, you thought there was probably 1. Which if there is one, then P-Sleazy would be confirmed.

Nik said there were two? I guess I just want paying attention. I've admittedly been cruising along this game more or less.

If I was scum though, wouldn't I be more likely to say 2? Just 'cause, y'know, I know there would be 2 left by virtue of being one of the 2?

[Moogle0119]

greed get in here and be more active or I'll have you replaced (seriously, two posts all game? c'mon).

[greed]

Sorry, sorry.


Jervis Tetch, Vanilla

I haven't been vanilla for a while and I kinda keep forgetting about this, then not having time to catch up when I remember.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Nik said there were two? I guess I just want paying attention. I've admittedly been cruising along this game more or less.

If I was scum though, wouldn't I be more likely to say 2? Just 'cause, y'know, I know there would be 2 left by virtue of being one of the 2?

No, you would be more likely to say 1 as you only counted every mafian but yourself.

Its actually happened before so.

[Gregness]

I can see that claim for Mason. I would like Gregness to confirm, but I seriously doubt he will say something other than yes. That leaves greed needing to claim.

*snip*

Confirmed.


I've gotta admit that all the vanillas are sort of throwing me off this game since I've only played MLP, Hat, and FR mafias.

[Mr.Bookworm]

I'm willing to believe Gregness' and B_real's claims, because if they're lying, they just revealed the entire mafia to us. Which would be dumb. Also, I can't imagine the Joker not being in a Batman mafia.

Soooo, living players and their claims:

Bard The 5th LW, Black Mask
Mr. Bookworm, Calendar Man
Inbred Chocobo, Killer Croc
Gregness, Harley Quinn
greed, Mad Hatter
Ravashak, Two-Face
BahamutFlare, Ra's al Ghul
Oron, Poison Ivy
P-Sleazy, Joker

One or more of us is lying.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Although, actually, with 9 left, it might be profitable to kill Gregness or B_real to check their claim, but I'm unsure about that.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Here is the problem. 9 left, we kill one today, they kill one tonight, we are at 7. Then we lynch one, they kill one, and then 5. Then we have one more lynch, and if we miss it, then the mafia has us and wins. So patterns go, we basically have 3 lynches to get the mafians. If we get one, that buys us another lynch or two to get the other one.

I was honestly hoping someone would claim something unique, because this whole game has been filled with just basic roles, so it would've been obvious who would be scum if they claimed, however everyone when I'm vanilla. At least we have names tied to the roles.

Mason is such an easy thing to claim if you got a buddy, so I could see it working excellent as protection, but the whole plan feels a bit... risky. I guess the whole thing hinges on if Moogle had actually put Masons in the first place into this game.

Here are the roles that we have seen
Police Officer
Bodyguard
Roleblocker
Jailer
and Serial Killer.

Nothing besides standard accepted roles, and we already have seen a couple townies. I'm thinking that yeah, I can buy into them being masons, and even more, no one disputed the claim. I honestly believe there would be masons in this game, I really do considering the other roles, and with nothing else to dispute it, I'm believing Gregness and P-Sleazy.

Known townies
Gregness
P-Sleazy

I understand that it would be a good defense, but I'm not feeling it there. I feel like Bard's claim in particular was rehearsed, like he was preparing that and why it was so formal. Something about that just bothers me. So I'm leaving my vote there.

[Bard The 5th LW]

No, you would be more likely to say 1 as you only counted every mafian but yourself.

Its actually happened before so.

That would be a pretty stupid thing to do especially since I've had experience being mafia before. Granted, I wasn't particularly GOOD at being a mafiate, but wouldnt I be better than a retarded slip of the tongue like that?

[Inbred Chocobo]

See that is the thing, what reveals mafians more are two things, activity and behavior, and then mistakes. It is possible that what you did, you did so without realizing without posting much at all. I'll give you a great example of this.

In the previous game, I was going on about how we needed to figure out who to lynch, and how to do it. I ended up saying that I don't think we need to lynch someone, but we better hurry up so we can decide which town to lynch.

Noticed that I said town, not mafia. No one caught it, but well after I posted I looked back and noticed that glaring mistake. It happens even to those that get ahead of themselves. It wouldn't be retarded, it is just a simple slip of the tongue, nothing more than that.

So yeah, I think you are mafian.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I think you're reaching but go right on ahead.

[BahamutFlare]

I remember that IC. I think I was mafiate with you though, wasn't I?

I think Bard is hiding something. What is it? I don't know. Bard, are you vanilla?

[Bard The 5th LW]

Already said I'm vanilla. 'parrently there was something shifty 'bout the way i typed it?

[BahamutFlare]

You said no powers to speak of. Like there was powers. Just none you wanted to tell us. Like a 1-shot Vig you're saving up for some reason. I didn't want to flat out say it because I felt that it'd be wrong, but since you're vanilla it's a moot point about semantics.

[Oron]

Nothing about Bard's role claim set anything off in my mind. I don't see it.

Honestly, if I had to pick someone to vote for right now, I'd probably go with Gregness or Ravashak. I just feel suspicious due to how quiet they've been and the timing of when they post in this game. P_Sleazy and greed as well, but not as much for some reason.

[Oron]

Of course, being more suspicious of Greg than P_Sleazy immediately sounded dumb once I posted that, since they claimed masons.

[P-Sleazy]

yea, being suspicious of one immediately makes the other suspicious. But hey, atleast when one of us dies, you're guaranteed the other is a townie!

I will say this though, we got confirmation from Moogle earlier in the game that the Joker exists through one of his night posts when the Red Hood died. I have claimed Joker. No one is counter claiming. Henceforth, I must be Joker. Also Arkham aligned.

[BahamutFlare]

P-Sleazy is indeed correct. I'm curious about bookworm for saying that he believed their claim (after Gregness confirmed), but 1 post later he says it may be profitable to kill 1 of them.

I'm thinking it may be profitable for him since mafia can kill the other confirmed townie during the night. In 1 D/N cycle, the 2 confirmed townies will be extinguished.

FoS: Bookie

Even after Gregness confirmed, why did you suggest this Bookie and contradict yourself?

[BahamutFlare]

Cmon guys. Voice up. Let's get something going on. We're just gonna let scum win if no one is talking.

Vote: Bookworm

I gave you 24 hours to respond. Give me a good reason and I'll take the vote off.

[Moogle0119]

Yeah it seems conversation is dying down....

Deadline in 48 hours

[P-Sleazy]

VOTE: ORON

Mostly for being suspicious of me and trying to get me and Greg out in one day/night cycle.

[Oron]

Hey now, I acknowledged the mason deal. I'm not super-suspicious of you two. I still want to see a little activity out of Gregness. That's the only reason I was really suspicious of him at all.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Well excellent guys, we now have a 3 way tie. Someone change their vote to Bard so we can get this over with.

[Gregness]

Hey now, I acknowledged the mason deal. I'm not super-suspicious of you two. I still want to see a little activity out of Gregness. That's the only reason I was really suspicious of him at all.

And yeah, to be fair I have been less active this game.

[BahamutFlare]

Well excellent guys, we now have a 3 way tie. Someone change their vote to Bard so we can get this over with.

It's still a 48 hour deadline. We need 5 people to lynch before that.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Vote: Bookworm

[P-Sleazy]

Unvote: Oron
VOTE: Bard

End of the day, it brings us just as close as my vote for Oron...

[Bard The 5th LW]

Joyous. Personally I think Bahamutflare is scum, just because he fell in support of me right after IC. IC's word carries decent weight since he's much more likely to be town than a decent amount of others. BF was also reaching with his accusation the same as IC, but IC was pretty open about it being a guess. I'm not really sure what I think of Bookie, I was mostly trying to shunt off the majority, but whatever. Go ahead and vote me, itll give you a smalller margin of error tomorrow. Its hard to care when Vanilla.

So whatever, adios.

[Oron]

I guess there isn't much else to say.

Vote: Bard

[Ravashak]

The "no power to speak of" thing is just too silly at this point, especially with the people we know that are already dead, and the way others have claimed.

Vote: Bard


With roughly 22 hours to go, this leads to the following vote count

Bard: 4
IC
P-Sleazy
Oron
Ravashak

Bookworm: 2
BahamutFlare
Bard the 5th LW

[BahamutFlare]

Bard, I didn't fall in support. Hence, I never voted for you. Granted, you're second on my list. Rather I questioned you and in the meantime found someone else that I think is more likely to be scum.

I'd still like to hear why Bookie wanted to vote P-Sleazy after the Gregness confirmation.

[greed]

Let's go for it


Vote: Bard

[Bard The 5th LW]

Man we must be pretty lost if we're voting me on the basis that I didn't read one of Nik's posts. I mean, it should be pretty clear from some of my posting that I've kinda skimmed a LOT of things.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Alright, thats 5, so there is our lynch. In case I die tonight for whatever reason, Ravashak has been pretty active this game, and so has bahamutflare, those would be my next two suspects. The mafians have got to be active people, who would have an investment in this game, rather than one of the inactive people, I'm also sure of it. However if anything proves to be different, then we will go from there.

[BahamutFlare]

Not necessarily true. They didn't need to become active until Nique died. And there's been a lot of activity changes from many people. However, that's just metagame analysis. With your own analysis, you would also be a prime scum candidate. If you're taking that route, I'd look more towards activity changes at the time of Nique's death rather than most activity if you take the metagame route.

Rather than that, I'd prefer if we just find out who's acting the most scummy. Maybe look at voting patterns. I think that gives more reliable information.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Eh, true enough. I'm looking at what I can discover, but nothing has that pop to it like Nikose's posting style does, nor can I really find anything to nail someone on. If you guys have some ideas and reasoning I would like to hear it.

[Moogle0119]

The remaining inmates knew someone was still out there and picking them off one by one in the middle of the night. Someone that had to have been trained by none other than Batman himself. But who had any dealings with Bruce Wayne when he was still alive? With their vast network of informants, it didn't take them long to decide on who to visit next. They all arrived at the old hideout for the False Face Society, determined to end this once and for all. Unfortunately for Bard, he still had not yet had time to recruit anyone since breaking out of Arkham and he knew that the arrival of the other "freaks" meant they were going after him next. He tried to escape using one of the back entrances, but they had already surrounded the place and caught him off guard.

"You idiots! You've got the wrong guy!" he shouted to no avail. As they surrounded him, one of them pulled out a gun and blew off his jaw completely, killing Bard the 5th LW, Roman Sionis (Black Mask) Arkham Asylum aligned.

It is now Night 4. 48 hours for night roles to be sent before Day 5 begins.

[Moogle0119]

With night falling upon Gotham once more, the young man set off towards his next target. The leads led him to a carnival, which was one of the many known hideouts. As he entered the House of Fun a voice greeted him over the loud speaker. He instantly recognized the voice from the many years of conflicts with the individual. He knew better than to listen to his rantings and ravings. He continued his search, and when he found where the trail stopped he burst through one of the fun house mirrors to find his target.

He found himself face to face with the Joker, who was still speaking madly into the microphone. The man grabbed him and threw him through another set of mirrors. He went after the Joker and pulled him up by the collar, but the Joker poked two of his fingers into his assailant's eyes. Temporarily blinding the young man, he grabbed a plank of wood and cracked it over his head. As he struggled to get back up, the Joker grabbed a knife and lunged at his opponent. His would-be-victim was too fast though, and countered his attack and knocked the Joker to the ground. The Joker had one last trick up his sleeve though, and pulled out a gun. He smiled wickedly as the young man paused, knowing there was nowhere to duck for cover and the Joker pulled the trigger smiling.

Click Click Click. That's what came from the gun, but no bullets came out. It was one of his prank guns, and the flag that hung from the muzzle indeed had Click Click Click written on it. The Joker sighed. "Damn it....it's empty. It's just not the same with Batman gone."

The young man responded "Then there's no need to keep doing this is there? He's gone now. Don't you understand? I don't want either of us to end up killing the other....but we're both running out of alternatives and we both know it. This may be our last chance to sort this bloody mess out. It doesn't have to end like that. I don't know what it was that bent your life out of shape, but who knows. Maybe I've been there too. Maybe I can help. We could work together. I could help rehabilitate you. What do you say?"

The Joker turned toward him and pondered for a moment before responding, "No. I'm sorry, but.....No. It's too late for that. Far too late. Hahaha, y'know it's funny....this situation, it reminds me of a joke. See, there were these two guys in a lunatic asylum and one night, one night they decide they don't like living in an asylum anymore. They decide they're going to escape! So like, they get up onto the roof and there, just across this narrow gap, they see the rooftops of the town, stretching away in the moonlight.....stretching away to freedom. Now, the first guy. He jumps right across with no problem But his friend, his friend dare not make the leap, y'see....y'see he's afraid of falling. So then the first guy has an idea....he says "Hey! I have my flashlight with me! I'll shine it across the gap between the buildings, you can walk along the beam and join me!" B-but the second guy just shakes his head. He says "Wh-what do you think I am? Crazy? You'd just turn it off when I was halfway across!"

And with his joke told, the Joker erupted into a long fit of laughter. Much to his surprise, the young man cracked a smile and started laughing too, even as the police sirens were heard coming closer. By morning everyone knew that P-Sleazy, The Joker Arkham Asylum aligned had been taken back to Arkham.

Day 5 begins. With 7 players left that leaves 4 needed to lynch. No deadline yet.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Wait what?

P-Sleazy claimed he was a Mason, but that wasn't revealed in his role when he died? Is that a mistake, or what the hell?

[Inbred Chocobo]

Ah screw it, it doesn't matter. Everything else about his claim matches, and Moogle just might not be revealing the Masons until they are all dead.

I'm up for a lynch on Ravashak, but again, that is currently based off gut. I would like to hear other arguments and we can go from there.

[Bard The 5th LW]

http://laurajul.dk/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/disappointment.jpg

[BahamutFlare]

I'm willing to believe Gregness' and B_real's claims, because if they're lying, they just revealed the entire mafia to us. Which would be dumb. Also, I can't imagine the Joker not being in a Batman mafia.

Soooo, living players and their claims:



One or more of us is lying.

Although, actually, with 9 left, it might be profitable to kill Gregness or B_real to check their claim, but I'm unsure about that.

Right after Gregness confirmed. I really want answers. No way in heck would it be profitable until the very end. I'd be up for Oron, Greed, or Bookie.

Bookie from these two posts and no answers as of yet. Oron and Greed because they voted middle and last respectively, but gave no reason. Just seemed like a bandwagon. I'm going to hold off voting because I want to hear answers from all three of you.

FoS: Bookie, Oron, Greed

Also, reread the first sentence of the lynch post. It says we knew someONE was picking us off. If this is the case, then Nikose was lying and there is only one left. Or maybe it's in reference to the mafia don? But that sentence strikes me like we are dealing with one person instead of the two we thought originally. Anyone else give me their thoughts on this?

[Mr.Bookworm]

Vote: Bahamut

Yeah, I'm going for Bahamut.

He's just been trying waaaaaaaay too hard to cast suspicion on anyone he possibly can.

[BahamutFlare]

Yet you still don't answer why you thought it was a good idea to lynch P-Sleazy or Gregness. The only people to benefit from that action is scum.

You're right though. It'd be wrong of me to try and pressure someone I have little info to see if they're scum or not. [/sarcasm] It's not like we have too many leads going on here. They could buckle under pressure and give their identity up, do a scummy action, trip up on their words, etc.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Yet you still don't answer why you thought it was a good idea to lynch P-Sleazy or Gregness. The only people to benefit from that action is scum.

I explained it right there in the post where I suggested it!

If B_real/Gregness were scum, lynching one of them would reveal it.

You will also note that I didn't actually vote for one of them, as I wasn't sure of that plan, and eventually decided against it.

[Oron]

I voted for Bard simply because nothing else was being said and I trusted IC's judgment more than yours. I'm more sure if him being town than you, Bahamut.

I've actually got time tonight to look through some stuff, so give me a couple minutes to find something I remembered overnight.

[Oron]

Ah, found it:
Greed, for one, has been silent to the point of inactivity. O2 posts, 1 vote. He's either super-busy or hiding something. Though he hasn't been that active on the rest of the forum. P-Sleazy has been making a lot of jokeposts, and his only vote during the nikose-karesh episode was for IC, of all people. Though holding off on oron does kinda speak in his favor.
Ravashak has been okay in terms of content, but fell suspicously silent during the karesh-nikose epipsode.
P-Sleazy's already dead, so based on this, I think greed and Ravashak would be good lynch candidates.

[BahamutFlare]

I explained it right there in the post where I suggested it!

If B_real/Gregness were scum, lynching one of them would reveal it.

You will also note that I didn't actually vote for one of them, as I wasn't sure of that plan, and eventually decided against it.

But upon everyone claiming their role, I thought once Gregness confirmed that it was almost like a confirmed townie. Even Moogle mentioned Joker and no one counter-claimed. Of course lynching them would've revealed it, if it wasn't pretty clear that he already was town. Maybe you realized this and didn't vote because there was no way you'd get a lynch going on P-Sleazy or Greg. Also, is B_Real the same as P-Sleazy?

Oron: I get where you're coming from. I'm not sure about how I feel about bandwagoning with someone you think is more town JUST for that reason though since there's always a chance he could be wrong and it could hurt us.

[Ravashak]

Alright, thats 5, so there is our lynch. In case I die tonight for whatever reason, Ravashak has been pretty active this game, and so has bahamutflare, those would be my next two suspects. The mafians have got to be active people, who would have an investment in this game, rather than one of the inactive people, I'm also sure of it. However if anything proves to be different, then we will go from there.

This post, combined with the lack of death of IC leads me to suspect BahamutFlare the most (if I were mafia, and I knew neither me or BahamutFlare are mafia, there'd be a decent chance i'd target IC at night after such a post, since there's a decent chance people'd follow up on it, since this didn't happen, I feel there's a decent chance either of us are mafia, and because I'm one of the two suspected through this, I can safely exclude one of the options, leaving the other)

[Inbred Chocobo]

This post, combined with the lack of death of IC leads me to suspect BahamutFlare the most (if I were mafia, and I knew neither me or BahamutFlare are mafia, there'd be a decent chance i'd target IC at night after such a post, since there's a decent chance people'd follow up on it, since this didn't happen, I feel there's a decent chance either of us are mafia, and because I'm one of the two suspected through this, I can safely exclude one of the options, leaving the other)

Problem with that logic is that you would just run in circles, making a classic WIFOM situation. I just need to determine if you put the poison in the glass in front of me or in front of you. See, the most obvious solution would be to put it in front of me, but you are an intelligent man, so you may put it in front of yourself, thinking I would go for that, but you would realize that, and put it in the glass in front of yourself. Then you may realize that I may realize this and put it in front of yourself.

Yeah that logic train will never end.

Okay, so I'm up for a lynch on anyone but Gregness, but I don't really have anything pointing to anyone. My last aggresiveness at someone was Bahamut playing the safe game and riding a lynch on Aldy like a crack-whore, but besides that I got nothing. Unfortunately, I think the last of the two mafians will basically have played the game rather well and not bring a whole lot of attention to themselves. I mean, its possible its greed with the no play no show, however I can't think of anything else really.

[BahamutFlare]

Oh IC. Taste the crack and you will see how good it is.

Vote: Bookworm

for reasons previously stated. Can anyone summarize why Ravashak is suspicious? I guess Gem thought he was silent during the Karesh/Nikose, but that could be easily explained by not being online for a few days. Give me a little while to look back during that episode. I really didn't have anything pop out with Ravashak when it was occurring.

Also, I guess no one has any opinions on the someone thing with the lynch post?

[Ravashak]

I'm guessing it's due to Geminex, when he asked about a godfather char. Two-face could fit that description if the game was entirely focussed on the Hush Begins arc Nikose mentioned earlier. For my char, that doesn't seem to be the case, though, this is also why I went against that a bit.

[Moogle0119]

It's getting quiet again, guess that means you guys are done with conversation and need another deadline to get things moving.

Deadline in 48 hours.

[BahamutFlare]

I'm not really seeing anything bad with Ravashak. I doubt he is scum. And I haven't seen anybody acting as a team so much, so that tell isn't helping. Greed just with his low activity is just able to lurk the entire game. I don't like it either. With Greed, I'll admit that if he is scum in the end, I'd just be upset to really lose to someone that did almost nothing the entire game.

[Inbred Chocobo]

I'm not really seeing anything bad with Ravashak. I doubt he is scum. And I haven't seen anybody acting as a team so much, so that tell isn't helping. Greed just with his low activity is just able to lurk the entire game. I don't like it either. With Greed, I'll admit that if he is scum in the end, I'd just be upset to really lose to someone that did almost nothing the entire game.

The problem though is no one has tells anymore, now you kind of have to go with gut feeling and meta-game logic to decide who you don't like and who you think is scum.

Vote: Ravashak

Basically, he has been posting regularly enough to have the feel in invested interest in the game, but slight lacking in depth of posts, or the posts themselves when things get heated.

[Oron]

Going to bed right now. I won't vote just yet because I want to see people say... well, something. At least we can know who's still actually paying attention. I've got time tomorrow, so I'll vote then.

[BahamutFlare]

Seriously, it's not all about gut and metagame. Your gut told us that Nikose was scum way before any of us had a clue. And you were so stuck on that fact. You even said so yourself before that scum may attack each other so that they could look innocent.

We even went over this before. I guess at this point and skimming the past led me to think this. Nikose was pretty intent even after being found out to lynch IC. And at this point, I doubt anything Nikose said. I think he may have been trying to trick everyone into thinking that IC was town aligned. With IC saying that at night, and not dying the same night, it makes it so no matter what because of WIFOM, he has an excuse to go after the most actives. If he is the new don, then he wouldn't die no matter what. Of course, what I'm saying is WIFOM. Did Nikose try to vote IC because he could make him look innocent? Or did he do it just to vote town off and get rid of someone talking too much? But lately, I'm not so trusting of our Chocobo friend.

I really really REALLY doubt Ravashak is scum though. Saw no tells that gave it away. And I've seen tells from others. I hate your metagame philosophy IC and I will FoS every person that votes Ravashak because of that. Sorry if my thoughts are a bit out of order, but the main point is there. I'm not really sure who would be the biggest threat out there though.

[Oron]

Well, if you had to vote right now, who would you lean more towards voting for? It's still a toss up for me. That's why I want some actual activity from our players here.

[BahamutFlare]

I already voted for Bookie. I didn't like how he wanted to handle P-Sleazy and Gregness situation after Gregness confirmed the 2 man masons. He didn't go through with it, but that could just be because it was doomed from the start. I think that's the most concrete thing I got. The rest being pretty wild speculations.

I just know as of right now, Ravashak and Gregness shouldn't be voted for. Gregness based on proof. And Ravashak based on lack of proof damning him. At this point in the game though, I'd just really hate to be wrong. We're running out of chances quickly.

[Oron]

Well Moogle's about to close this up.

Vote: Bookworm

This can't end without a lynch of some sort.

[Moogle0119]

Sorry Oron, your post was a little over 2 hours past the deadline so I can't count that vote.

Final vote count...

BahamutFlare (1)
Mr.Bookworm

Mr.Bookworm (1)
BahamutFlare

Ravashak (1)
Inbred Chocobo

With a three-way tie there is no lynch today.

It is now Night 5. 48 hours for night roles to be sent before Day 6 begins.

[Geminex]

With a three-way tie there is no lynch today.
Sorry to interrupt, but I just wanna say that this seems weird.. In the case of a tie, a lynch-breaker is customary. Wait for one of the players to change their vote. The lynch is really valuable for town, depriving them of it because there's no majority seems extremely shitty for town. Particularly if you didn't actually mention that this would happen beforehand.

[Moogle0119]

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Plurality_voting

"A moderator using plurality voting will have to decide what happens when there is a tie at the deadline. It is suggested that ties should be treated as a no lynch. "

I have treated all games I've run with this rule (yes I never explicitly declared rules before the game, but nobody ever asked either).

[Moogle0119]

Once again, night fell on Gotham. The young man returned to the carnival for the next escaped inmate, knowing well that she would be here. He searched through the various tents and rides until he heard sobbing. He pulled aside one of the tent flaps to find the woman crying in the corner where the Joker had stood the previous night. As he entered the room, she quickly got up while wiping her tears away and grabbed her huge hammer.

"What'd you do with Mista J!" she accused him.

"Believe it or not, he actually wanted to go back to Arkham this time. So he's back there now."

She grew angry at his answer and charged him "You're lying Bat-boy!". She went to swing the hammer at his head, but she was far outclassed. He deftly dodged the attack, and used her own momentum against her to flip her onto the ground.

"No Harley, I'm not lying." he said as he kept a ready stance in case she wanted to retaliate again.

She sighed heavily, slowly stood back up. The two looked at each other for a brief moment.....before she burst into tears again. "Fine! Take me in too then! I just want to be with my puddin'" as she held out her hands in submission for them to be cuffed. The young man reached a hidden compartment on the side of his boot which contained a thin, but strong, pair of handcuffs and placed them onto her hands. By morning, Gregness, Dr. Harleen Quinzel (Harley Quinn) Arkham Asylum aligned had been taken back to Arkham Asylum where she sat in a cell across from her true love, The Joker.

Day 6 begins. With 6 players left that leaves 4 needed to lynch. Deadline in 48 hours.

[Oron]

Well that sucked. I'm really busy tomorrow so I'll just put down the same vote for now and get back to homework.

Vote: Bookworm

[BahamutFlare]

I'm not gonna vote yet. If we're wrong, and if Nikose wasn't lying, then we're toast. Do we have alternatives? What're the best options?

[Ravashak]

The mafia's been taking out those that had the best alibi of being town the last couple days. This means that at this point, we're mostly back at square one, with no confirmed townies (even if they are inactive). At this point, I'm willing to join in on a lynch on, say, Bookworm, but as BahamutFlare said, if Nikose wasn't lying, and there are two more mafiates, a mislynch would make the mafia win.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Yeah, we have this lynch to figure out who is scum. We have

Mr. Bookworm
Inbred Chocobo
greed
Ravashak
BahamutFlare
Oron

I'm still completely up for lynching Ravashak, and Bahamutflare. In fact, I am willing to bet those two right there are our scum targets.

Vote: Bahamutflare

My reasons for Bahamut have been stated before, so quick summary. He has played the safe game for most of this, riding a lynch on Aldy due to his miller claim (which later was verified legit).

Ravashak would be my next choice, then Oron, and I think we lose and congrats to Bookworm and greed for faking me out the whole time in me thinking they aren't scum. However, I am more than willing to bet that Bahamutflare is scum, his reactions, his posting, they are starting to read a bit... quirky. He is feeling the pressure, we all are, but he is reacting to it a lot harder than most. So it feels like bahamut is either reacting to pressure poorly... or he is under a lot more pressure than the rest of us.

[BahamutFlare]

IC, what I want to know is why is Bookie and Greed so innocent to you? Greed I can understand because you're using metagame and he hasn't said anything negatively. However, the inverse is true that he hasn't said anything that could be seen as pro-town.

With Bookie, are you just using metagame with him to think he's innocent? And your 'list of suspicion' is just a list of activity is it not? I'd love to hear your reasoning why to Bookie and Greed are completely innocent. And no metagame gut feelings as reasons. I would like something a bit more than that.

[Inbred Chocobo]

For greed, he isn't active enough to be anything but a townie.

For bookie, he merely falls the lowest on my list of suspicious people, no tells from him, no weird posting habits, just playing the game. Some people can interpret that as scum, trying to play perfectly, but that isn't what is going on there.

[BahamutFlare]

But one of Bookie's ideas was to lynch one of the two most confirmed townies to prove they were masons. Which I see as only a scum advantage. To me, that's a tell. Either that, or it was a really odd set of ideas coming from a townie.

I don't think Greed is the Don, but he could be a member. It'd explain why no teams have really been seen since he didn't play much. It's plausible. But plausible isn't a justification for reason.

Until I hear something to persuade me, I'm just going to continue with what looks the most promising.
Vote: Bookie

[Inbred Chocobo]

Books vote actually had some claim to it when it was first made, as a mason defense for two mafians left would be incredibly strong. However when the arguments were laid on the table why they had to be true, he was correct to back off. When I first saw it, I was a bit skeptical too until I took a moment to think about it, and then put those thoughts. Bookie had a similiar response, but didn't wait to start posting about it.

[Ravashak]

With roughly 5 hours to go, and the lack of activity, I'm going to do what I said I was willing to earlier.

Vote: Bookworm

[Inbred Chocobo]

Bahamut is where it is at people. Seriously, everyone needs to vote him.

[Oron]

Well, okay. I just kind of threw my vote out 'cuz I didn't know when I'd be able to check in again and I didn't want another no-lynch.

Unvote: Bookworm

I see Bahamut continuing his vote from the other day. But what I see with Bookworm is basically what IC said. It's not unthinkable to suggest lynching one of two people with claims depending on one another to test the claim (heck, I even considered it - we could have survived losing a townie). I understand the whole "wanting to remove confirmed townies" deal, but Bookworm didn't vote for either of them. Actually, he didn't vote at all. But you're still pushing for this pretty hard.

And then Rav comes in and goes with in. I can understand that, though. WE really don't want another day without a lynch.

So, crunch time, people. We're short on hours, and we want to be really, really sure of whether or not we're about to lynch the right person. There's still a majority for Bookworm, but anybody else (greed, Bookie, Greg) could step in at the last moment.

Sorry this came so close to the deadline. I'm rolling into exam mode and I'm in the middle of a few homework assignments. I'll try and check in within the next hour or so while I read some stuff for class.

[BahamutFlare]

Well, your argument causes some doubt, but I think it's still the best thing we got. We can't do a no lynch. It'd be a waste. And I'm not going to vote myself since I know for sure I'm town.

[Mr.Bookworm]

I am actually most suspicious of Oron right now. Swooping in at the last second to try to throw a lynch onto me strikes me as really scummy.

I'll look it over, though.

[Inbred Chocobo]

You know what helps people? Voting Bahamutflare. Seriously, we are on a time limit here, and its almost up.

[Moogle0119]

The few inmates who remained gathered together to go after the one man they thought may be hiding valuable information. As they approached him, he stayed as cold and distant as usual. When the small group began to attack him, he did not defend himself, saying something about how he knew this was his day.

And with that Mr. Bookworm, Julian Day (Calendar Man) Arkham Asylum aligned laid before them.

It is now Night 6. 48 hours for night roles to be sent before Day 7 begins.

[Mr.Bookworm]

You know what helps people? Voting Bahamutflare. Seriously, we are on a time limit here, and its almost up.

Eeeeh. Alright. I was hoping for a lynch, but a no lynch is better than lynching a townie.

Vote: Bahamut

MOTHERFUCKER

[Moogle0119]

Darkness fell upon Gotham and once more the young man went after his another one of the escaped inmates. This one however, could prove to be his most daunting challenge yet, as he was physically no match for his target. Unfortunately, his target would also be hard to find, with miles and miles of ground to cover before the night was over, he would have to hunt quickly.

.....hours passed as he grew weary of searching Gotham's sewers. He was trained by the best detective in the world, but he was not Bruce's equal when it came to the actual detective work. Just when he was going to stop searching, he heard something. He turned around to see the reptillian beast rise from beneath the sewage water and leap at him. He barely managed to avoid it, along with its massive tail swing. The beast snarled at him and continued to attack, but the man was too agile for him.

The beast dove back into the deep part of the sewer water, disappearing beneath it's murky surface. The man tried to see where his attacker had disappeared to, but it was hard to tell in the darkness. After studying the water from dry ground for a moment, he thought he saw something. He quickly grabbed for one of his escrima sticks and threw it, but it merely hit a shadow and fell into the water. The beast rose from the water, laughing at his missed attack. The young man smiled back and pressed a small button on his cuff. Normally, the button would be to make his escrima sticks shock an opponent, but with it being in the water, the current electrified the beast. After only moments, with another single button press, the current was gone and now the young man had to figure out exactly how was going to get the massive, unconscious body out of the sewer. With the help of GCPD, Inbred Chocobo, Waylon Jones (Killer Croc) Arkham Asylum aligned was placed inside a special cell in Arkham that could contain him.

Day 7 begins. With 4 players left that leaves 3 needed to lynch. Deadline in 48 hours.

[Oron]

Well, this is certainly coming down to the wire.

Bahamut, you pushed the hardest for Bookworm. Given that we have so few leads from being generally quiet, I'll just

Vote: Bahamut

It would be nice if greed were to say something.

[BahamutFlare]

Yeah, it turned out I was wrong. But my idea was I figured there was 1 or 2 mafia members left. So rather then go with who seemed a little suspicious, I'd go with people that were most suspicious. And Bookworm just seemed the most suspicious to me for a few game days. Moreso than Bard a couple days back. And we didn't get anywhere with that no lynch.

I think we can safely take Greed out of the equation since there's only 1 mafiate left. I don't think he could have done this. Or maybe he's a genius...I don't know. It kept him alive thus far. So it's either Ravashak or Oron.

Ravashak has been kinda slack with activity lately, but I really thought he was townie early on. However, there's a chance he's just trying to lurk and survive.

Bookie was suspicious about Oron doing a last minute vote on him 2 days ago. And once Bookie had a good majority yesterday, Oron unvoted.

Ravashak, where did you disappear too?
Oron, can you explain why the votes early on in the day and the unvote later? I'm just curious as to why not hold off your vote if you knew you were coming back.

[Oron]

Oron, can you explain why the votes early on in the day and the unvote later? I'm just curious as to why not hold off your vote if you knew you were coming back.

Except I didn't know I was coming back. I stated that pretty clearly in my last post for the day before Bookworm was lynched. I'm on a tight schedule since I've got exams and the usual homework load. Because of that, I posted the original vote and managed to find time to fire my computer back up later, despite my expectation that I wouldn't have finished work before going to bed. The only reason I'm even checking in right now as opposed to tomorrow is because heck, it's Friday. Studying can wait until tomorrow.

About: Ravashak and greed: we'll see, I hope.

[BahamutFlare]

Well, I'm not sure what Ravashak is doing or planning. It seems a bit unusual for him lately.

FoS: Ravashak

At least until he says something. I'll vote tomorrow when I wake up. I really wanted to hear from him before making a decision. At least hear what all the remaining alive players have to say, but may not be happening unfortunately.

[BahamutFlare]

Well, my guess is inactivity rather than lurking with Ravashak.

Vote: Oron

Hopefully Bookie was right with your suspicions. Your votes have been odd these past couple days.

[Oron]

Well, now it just depends on what Ravashak and greed do, which I fear will be nothing.

This is quite a way to end a game. This is the last day we have, unless greed is indeed town and by some miracle becomes active.

[Moogle0119]

Wow....tied on the votes again?

No lynch then. It is now Night 7. 48 hours until Day 8.

[Moogle0119]

Oron, Pamela Lillian Isley (Poison Ivy) Arkham Asylum aligned has been incarcerated. It is now Day 8. 48 hours until lynch deadline.

[greed]

I thought I'd been replaced after Moogle said if I was inactive any more I'd get replaced. Sorry.


Anyway, I'm gonna

Vote: Ravshak


As he was active right up until the game ground down to mostly inactives then got real quiet when he seemed sure inertia could carry him through. I know me attacking someone for not posting in this game is some cheek but I have consistently not posted due to being busy and then forgetting and then thinking I'd been replaced. Rav was active then got quiet recently. Which to me is more suspicious.

[BahamutFlare]

Vote: Ravashak

From process of elimination in my mind, ravashak has to be it. holy crap. greed is here! yay! We have a chance! Let's hope for the best!

[Moogle0119]

With only 3 players left alive and two of those three voting for Ravashak, a majority has been reached for a lynch.

This concludes the game....


The last decision was made. Both, Ra's al Ghul and Jervis Tetch, went after the only other person remaining who had to be the one responsible for the attacks at night. They burst into the Gotham City court house to find Ravashak sitting in the judge's spot. As the two rushed towards Ravashak, Ravashak calmly flipped a coin and watched as it landed heads in the palm of his hand. He did nothing to prevent their attacks and soon he laid on the floor knocked out. Ra's al Ghul stood over his unconscious body and looked over to see Jervis Tetch pulling a revolver out from under his large hat. Jervis Tetch smiled and aimed at Ravashak, but was stopped by Ra's al Ghul calmly shaking his head no.

"But why? He took our Alice away, didn't he?" cried Jervis nervously as Ra's al Ghul approached him.

"You're confused Mr. Tetch. Here, let me help you." he said and swiftly clubbed him with an escrima stick.

Jervis looked up in a haze to see Ra's al Ghul rip his face off, only it wasn't his face, it was just a mask. Dick Grayson smiled and said "While I never was too good with the detective work, Bruce always said I was great at this undercover stuff. Worked like a charm."

And with that Jervis blacked out, while BahamutFlare, Dick Grayson (Nightwing) hauled Ravashak, Harvey Dent (Two-Face) Arkham Asylum aligned and greed, Jervis Tetch (The Mad Hatter) Arkham Asylum aligned off to Arkham Asylum.

After dropping them off, Dick returned to the Batcave to think about all his friends and family he lost in the past days since all the inmates broke out of Arkham. He looked solemnly at the glass case that had Bruce's Batman suit in it, wondering what would happen to Gotham City without Batman. Would it be able to sustain itself? He lowered his head and thought briefly on it, until he decided of course it would.

"I believe in Gotham City." he said softly as he looked back up at the Batman suit and smiled....

/end

The winners are the Bat Family:
Nique
BahamutFlare
Nikose Tyris
Karesh

[Moogle0119]

Just some personal notes/opinions.

The Good.
BahamutFlare definitely wins MVP of the game for managing to stay alive for as long as he did after his whole team got knocked out all within 2 game days and no powers to speak of other than Team Batman having received a Safe List of 4 villains to claim from safely.

With that said, I'll definitely tip my hat towards Geminex for MVP for the Arkham Asylum aligned team, he managed to catch 2 of the mafia directly in a lie that was outted by his claim as the game's PO. Even with this, I remember at least one person was then suspicious of Nique as well (too lazy/busy to check who and exactly what was said).

The Bad.
I'm not sure what the town was thinking in letting it go into a no-lynch result twice. The last few game days the town just stopped talking completely which was the reason I started forcing deadlines right from the start of the next day (because it seemed like nobody wanted to open up with discussions anymore). No point in wasting time if nobody wants to participate, which was disheartening for me as the GO to see the game go from being very active to very quiet so suddenly.

Anyway I had a lot of fun running this game and I really hope that everyone that participated had fun too, feel free to comment on anything if you guys wish.

[IHateMakingNames]

I'm afraid to run a minimalist power game now. Once it came down to mafia and townies everything stopped.

Wish I had realized the deadline ended the day I died. I went and did non-computer things that day. I would have switched off of Aldurin much earlier for Nikose, but then he'd just jump on that since last game I said I'd have pushed for a lynch on the miller claim. Completely different situations between both games but that would have been ignored. You are all stupid for following Nikose who was so obviously mafia.

I really thought Oron was the last mafia member.

[Moogle0119]

I'm afraid to run a minimalist power game now. Once it came down to mafia and townies everything stopped.
This.

Prior to this game starting, most of the people that participated in mafia seemed to want a low-power mafia game (not as many crazy roles/powers flying around). Trust me I had to fight the urge a lot to not start handing out powers to certain villains that would've been so easy to do, but very quickly would've put this game more in line with the previous mafia games. The only roles I tweaked were the roleblocker (Fenris) finding out that character's fear as well, the serial killer (RO/Hawk2) which I gave him immunity to night kills from everyone EXCEPT Batman, and the miller (Aldurin) where I gave him immunity to night kills FROM Batman. The first one was, well.....honestly it just sounded cool and I thought it'd give some incentive for the roleblocker to actually try to figure out who the person was that they blocked. The serial killer, I gave the additional power to because the serial killer has the hardest role in the game in order to win so I thought I'd give him some additional immunities to help with survival. And lastly, the miller. While I absolutely HATE giving out any roles/abilities that actively screw over any player, I thought I'd give the miller the immunity to give them the dilemma "Do you roleclaim right away in hopes of saving yourself from being investigated and lynched? Or do you keep the claim to yourself and hope to waste one or more night kills from the mafia?"

[Aldurin]

Just wow town, I kept saying that if you lynch me at least have a plan to not go into "now what?" mode. I am disappoint.

[Geminex]

I actually really liked this game.

Full disclosure, I was actually a fully-powered PO. I investigated Oron and then died the night I investigated P-Sleazy. So yes, Earl.

I'm just going to throw this out here in case I'm right and if so to prevent Geminex from making me look bad from this.

I don't think Geminex is actually a 1-shot PO. I figure he's pulling the reverse of what I did in the MLP game, where he claims to be a 1-shot so that he can reveal his first scan early without making himself a major target. This is assuming Moogle wants to balance the game and having a 1-shot PO and a Roleblocker Semi-PO doesn't add up.

This was correct. Well done. : D

Mind you, I'm surprised that Bahamut even let me live one night, so I'm going to assume he would've killed me anyway, regardless of what anyone said.

Mind you despite that, it was still a horrible move to publicly elaborate on your theory that I wasn't oneshot. I mean, even if you're afraid of me making you look bad, this is a case where being right is the worst-case scenario.

Also, how far did the Nikose-Marius-(possibly?)Fenris thing go? Do you know who said what?

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

At least I got to kill the Batman. Ironically enough I was either going to go after him or BF for the sake of setting up WIFOM situations. Didn't realise they were both mafia at the time though.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I was secretly batman the whole game. I was in the shadows.

[Inbred Chocobo]

I told you guys to lynch Bahamutflare in the end, but no one joined me. Bah!

[BahamutFlare]

Gem, I killed you N1 when I could I believe. I was second in command so I was vanilla until Nique died. We just believed that going after the SK was in better interests after you claimed. I was hoping you wouldn't say who you investigated each night though. It'd give town confirmed and I really didn't want to deal with that.

Geez guys, way to make me play as a SK for most the game. Justice prevails though! Good game. I had fun. Thanks Moogle!

[Inbred Chocobo]

Yeah, you did well, though in the end what killed us was townie inactives. With no one to join me in lynching, or the people posting unvoting and not voting in the first place, all that would happen is a game stalling.

[Ryong]

Can I comment on mafia even though I didn't play ( I mean, I accompanied the darn thing )?

BahamutFlare had been acting incredibly scummy since forever, I was cringing with every vote that didn't go on him since night 3 or so.

[phil_]

Can I comment on mafia even though I didn't play ( I mean, I accompanied the darn thing )?

BahamutFlare had been acting incredibly scummy since forever, I was cringing with every vote that didn't go on him since night 3 or so.Part of me believes that Nikose would still be alive if he hadn't been mod-killed. Like, Day one, he's screaming "I'm mafia! Lynch me!" and only IC caught on. How?

Is it against the rules if I edit after the game ends?: Like, he was making long posts that were just lists and insults that provided no real information, he was intentionally making townies annoyed and thus less-able to play logically, and he justified it all with "I'm playing scummy so you won't know if I'm scum next game." If a dude is acting deliberately and flagrantly counter to town interests, he is not an ally of town, regardless of what his role states. Additionally, the way to play mafia is to act like town every game so that no one knows whether you're town or not, not the other way around. That's like, bam, this guy is either mafia or SK, right there.

Further metaphor: You're all Red, and there's a Red spy in your base, sappin' your sentry, and he's in chat saying, "I'm just sappin' our sentry so you won't know if I'm Blu next gamelol." What do we do to said spy?

[Geminex]

Man, all you smart people should tell us less-smart people how you came to these genius conclusions.

[Ryong]

To be honest, I only figured out BahamutFlare aaand I thought Ravashak was scum, too.

As I commented with Kerensky a few days ago:

BahamutFlare is exceptional at slinging "we gotta be careful" and explaining his earlier points in subtle "no, see, I had the right train of thought" ways.

Ravashak talked like he's going with the flow and then votes someone seemingly at random, which seemed scummy.

[IHateMakingNames]

I explained exactly why Nikose was mafia. He went incredibly deep into absolute bullshit as soon something happened. He wanted to appear as helpful as possible as soon as possible so people would think he shouldn't be lynched because he's useful, even though he wasn't and was spouting nonsense. Also phil's thing about his explanations that he always plays scummy and other bullshit excuses.

I stopped paying attention after day 1 for the most part.

[Geminex]

I explained exactly why Nikose was mafia. He went incredibly deep into absolute bullshit as soon something happened. He wanted to appear as helpful as possible as soon as possible so people would think he shouldn't be lynched because he's useful, even though he wasn't and was spouting nonsense.
That seems like something normal-nikose would do too, though. I mean, I get your point, and I did investigate him because of his demeanor, but I didn't think that was a definite scumtell.

The 'gotta be careful' with Bahamutflare is a good point, though. I'll keep an eye out for that next time.

[phil_]

Pet peeve: Audience telling the players that they "totally knew it"But I did totally know it! I mean, not anyone but Nikose, but the only reason I followed this game was a continuing fascination with the idea "They're still not gonna lynch Niknik?"

It was a sad day when I came home and saw that Moogle took him out. Like almost killing the final boss and then the power goes out.

Also, I forgot to give IHMN credit for pointing out the exact behavior that showed there was no way Nikose was town. Sorry, bud.

[IHateMakingNames]

There is no "normal" playstyle. There is scum and townie. Every game is new and fresh. Townies do not go into large tangents for no reason.

Edit - Obviously exceptions sometimes happen. Regardless a townie doesn't want to make themselves a target so early. Maybe a vanilla won't care but then they won't get so defensive with weak excuses if people start to suspect them.

[Geminex]

Oh, certainly, but players do have habits. I suppose I gave Nikose a bit too much credit to begin with, and that's my bad. But given that he seemed genuinely enthusiastic about the whole 'Hush Saga' thing, and there seemed to be no good reason for scum Nikose to do that, I didn't immediately hear alarm bells.

Edit: Oh, hey, scumteam, can we see your conversation log?

Edit2: Though we would have lynched Nikose. The only reason he didn't die on day 2 was that he got frozen. And he would have died day 3. I mean, he had roleclaimed in connection with known scum. How on earth was he gonna get out of that? Give us some credit, here.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Is it against the rules if I edit after the game ends?: Like, he was making long posts that were just lists and insults that provided no real information, he was intentionally making townies annoyed and thus less-able to play logically, and he justified it all with "I'm playing scummy so you won't know if I'm scum next game." If a dude is acting deliberately and flagrantly counter to town interests, he is not an ally of town, regardless of what his role states. Additionally, the way to play mafia is to act like town every game so that no one knows whether you're town or not, not the other way around. That's like, bam, this guy is either mafia or SK, right there.

Further metaphor: You're all Red, and there's a Red spy in your base, sappin' your sentry, and he's in chat saying, "I'm just sappin' our sentry so you won't know if I'm Blu next gamelol." What do we do to said spy?

I'm pretty sure I've stated repeatedly that we should always immediately and ruthlessly lynch Nikose.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I told you guys, I called BH all the way.

You people disappoint me.

[Moogle0119]

Also, how far did the Nikose-Marius-(possibly?)Fenris thing go? Do you know who said what?

(Warning, long post)
Here's the whole story from my perspective...


Starting with the beginning of Day 3 and right after Nikose publicly roleclaimed and asked to be frozen. Marius's PM to me.
Freeze Nikose~

Hope this doesn't make you annoyed but instead makes you laugh~!

LOL are you serious though that you want Nikose frozen again?

And I followed up with...

P.S. After reading Nikose and your posts, I want to know why exactly you're freezing Nikose again? It seems like you're playing AGAINST your alignment which is Arkham Asylum (town) aligned.

This does go against this town, and I figured this would be your response. The main reason that I'm doing this is because this is the most entertaining thing for me to watch happen. Afterall, I did only start this to enjoy a game :P. I'll leave it up to you if he is frozen or not. If you decide this is too much against the town, Freeze Geminex instead~


PS: He threatened my frozen wife. The Scoundrel!

Well I want you to pick whoever you want. I just wanted to make sure you weren't making any deals outside of the thread with out players (aka Nikose) to keep him alive. Now if you truly believe Nikose isn't scum (Bat-family aligned) that's one thing, but unfortunately Nora doesn't really play any part in this game and the only way you win is by killing off the entire Bat family.

Let me know who you want to freeze.

I wanted to give Marius the benefit of the doubt (in that he wasn't cheating, and just making a decision based off his "fun" factor).

Freeze Nikose~

This will be the last time though. Since now town can hunt for the remaining mafiates instead of focusing on him.

That's fine then and decent reasoning at least. Again I just wanted to make sure you and Nikose weren't making any deals outside of the thread to help each other out despite being on different "teams" or anything (since it's against the rules and all). Other than that though, you're free to choose whoever you want and sorry for being a little suspicious and questioning your target.

I tried to reassure him it was ok and also just to further point out that any talking outside the thread about the game was strictly prohibited.

At this point, Geminex had questioned whether or not Marius should be booted from the game for possible cheating. Since I'm only running the game and not a mod, I decided to ask Fenris what should be done and sent him the following...

Sorry this even has to get brought up, but if you could please read the last 10 or so posts in the current mafia game and tell me if Marius should be mod killed?

I'm thinking not, Marius is indeed helping "the other team" out in a way, but I asked him why...

Freeze Nikose~

Hope this doesn't make you annoyed but instead makes you laugh~!
LOL are you serious though that you want Nikose frozen again?
P.S. After reading Nikose and your posts, I want to know why exactly you're freezing Nikose again? It seems like you're playing AGAINST your alignment which is Arkham Asylum (town) aligned.


Then...

This does go against this town, and I figured this would be your response. The main reason that I'm doing this is because this is the most entertaining thing for me to watch happen. Afterall, I did only start this to enjoy a game :P. I'll leave it up to you if he is frozen or not. If you decide this is too much against the town, Freeze Geminex instead~


PS: He threatened my frozen wife. The Scoundrel!
Well I want you to pick whoever you want. I just wanted to make sure you weren't making any deals outside of the thread with out players (aka Nikose) to keep him alive. Now if you truly believe Nikose isn't scum (Bat-family aligned) that's one thing, but unfortunately Nora doesn't really play any part in this game and the only way you win is by killing off the entire Bat family.

Let me know who you want to freeze.

And finally...

Freeze Nikose~

This will be the last time though. Since now town can hunt for the remaining mafiates instead of focusing on him.
That's fine then and decent reasoning at least. Again I just wanted to make sure you and Nikose weren't making any deals outside of the thread to help each other out despite being on different "teams" or anything (since it's against the rules and all). Other than that though, you're free to choose whoever you want and sorry for being a little suspicious and questioning your target.

If you feel like he needs to be mod-killed let me know and I'll do it (or if you want, do it yourself). I felt like you should know what the current situation is since it seems like some players are getting pissed off.

And I got the following reply.

Nikose has admitted to me that he is in correspondence with Marius. Take that how you will.

So I got frustrated and decided to question Nikose before making any decisions on mod killing any players.

Were you talking to Mariustwilight outside the Batman mafia game ABOUT anything to do with said mafia game?

And I quickly followed with...

P.S. You've got like 10 mins to be honest with me or else I'll come to my own decision.

...since everyone was starting to claim Marius and Nikose were communicating outside the thread and demanding something to be done.

I just got home. :P Cut me some slack. And I was talking to Marius occasionally outside the game when it came up- I did the same with Fenriswolf. Yes, it would qualify as cheating. [In fairness, Fenris came to me and opened with, "Wanna cheat?"]

At no point did I do anything when asked beyond saying, "Oh, I'm just penguin. no special powers." to them, though.

^

That's still cheating (even if you are lying). Both of you. I'll handle this in the thread.

And that's when I made my posts mod killing Nikose and MariusTwilight. I didn't want to punish either team for the individual's mistakes, so I just mod killed them for communicating outside the thread and kept the game going right where it left off.

[Aldurin]

I think Moogle made a good call with that, since bringing the game to a halt or horribly altering it just to deal with a couple people that are making trouble isn't fair. And cheating is cheating. I'd probably enact a similar policy if such things happen in my games.

[Loyal]

Man, all you smart people should tell us less-smart people how you came to these genius conclusions.

I'm not going to say I "knew" anything, but if there's a list of people you want to just lynch on general principle, Nikose tops it.

Is it against the rules if I edit after the game ends?: Like, he was making long posts that were just lists and insults that provided no real information, he was intentionally making townies annoyed and thus less-able to play logically, and he justified it all with "I'm playing scummy so you won't know if I'm scum next game." If a dude is acting deliberately and flagrantly counter to town interests, he is not an ally of town, regardless of what his role states. Additionally, the way to play mafia is to act like town every game so that no one knows whether you're town or not, not the other way around. That's like, bam, this guy is either mafia or SK, right there.

Further metaphor: You're all Red, and there's a Red spy in your base, sappin' your sentry, and he's in chat saying, "I'm just sappin' our sentry so you won't know if I'm Blu next gamelol." What do we do to said spy?It's slightly bothersome that Nikose pretty much plays the same way damn near every single game, and yet people are always hesistant to just nuke him D1 because he might be a Jester or something (related: I am always astonished that everyone consistently believes there is a jester at all) and all I can think is "What kind of shitty GM would do that to his players?"

This idea, incidentally, of making decisions based on who a person is and what they're like and how it colors their actions in-game, rather than just the things they're saying or doing taken on their own merits, is why I don't play NPF Mafia games.

[Geminex]

Man, it's not like I said "Oh, that is scummy, but Nikose always acts scummy!". I mean, sure, he seemed pretty enthusiastic about it, but what did he do that actually was scum-ish? Sure, the lists didn't really provide any new info, but it's not like he tried to mislead town with them. At least it didn't seem that way at the time. And what he was doing was pretty blatantly useless, so the 'trying to seem useful' explanation seemed weird.

Loyal and Phil in particular are acting like he actually hurt town interests blatantly, and we ignored it because Nikose just does that. But, for my part, I don't think he hurt town interests at all. He got overexcited about some deductions, and while I would've been suspicious if, say, IHMN had done that, it seemed in-character with Nikose. I take personality into account to gague the limits of what's suspicious and what isn't, but I don't rely solely on it. That would be very dumb, and I don't think anyone here does that.

And I don't think the word 'jester' ever came up in this game.

Also as far as I remember, IHMN's only "exact explanation" consisted of one line saying he was trying to seem important. Just an aside. And he ended up voting for earl anyway.

[IHateMakingNames]

He did mislead the town and lead a lynch on me that everyone followed. The issue was he was trying to be useful but since everything he was posting was useless it's scummy. He's not providing information but he's filling the thread with crap that isn't helpful. You're trying to argue that he didn't seem scummy because of whatever reasons, but he was a scummy mafia and everyone is telling you they knew right away (Except those in the game who all followed what he said).

I stated several times that Nikose was mafia and I'd switch my vote to Nikose if people wanted him dead first.

[Geminex]

I don't think 'trying to be useful' is something we should lynch for. Not unless it somehow seems obvious that he is actually meaning to do harm. And, at that point, I didn't really see why you'd consider "elaboration on the nature of the game on the basis of batman minutiae" as "scummy". I still don't really. Sure, he just ended up writing a lot, but if you make it a policy that anyone who writes a lot but doesn't bring any new insights should get lynched, then you're discouraging activity, which, if nothing else, makes the game a lot less enjoyable.

Also, you did FOS Nikose, and you pointed out once that he'd be your second choice, after earl, but you really kinda failed at any explanation.

Also also, it really seems like Earl lead that lynch. Nikose was more tangentially involved.

And finally, it's not like I absolved Nikose of suspicion entirely. I investigated him during night 1 because I thought he might well be scum. My only point right now is that I don't think there were any obvious scumtells during day 1 that would have totally necessitated his lynch, which Phil in particular seemed to be implying. Saying otherwise kinda implies that the entire playerbase is too oblivious to see obvious clues, and that seems kind of mean.

Edit: To be honest, Nikose might've been my first choice as well, if you hadn't mandated a lynch on all millers.

[phil_]

And I don't think the word 'jester' ever came up in this game.It totally did.Maybe IC's a Jester role? His posts also read differently.Wait, crap, that's calling IC a jester. Why you gotta do me like that, Oron?

Anyway, you got me to go re-read the thread. I probably got the feeling that Nikose was acting counter-town because he repeatedly called RO stupid on day one. I mean, he ended up being the SK, but come on, ragging on Ocelot is super not-cool. Then day two happened, and Nikose mellowed out right proper, so you're totally right that, after day one, he stopped giving scum tells. The reason I saw him as acting super-scummy-all-day-long-you-can't-stop-this-scum is because, for me, that all happened while I was catching up from Moogle's post pages later booting him from the game. I was just looking for what he could have done for Moogle to knock him and Marius out, not at his far lowered aggression after day one. Like, there were still things there that read as tells now with hindsight, but nothing quite like "I'm acting like I'm in the mafia but that's just how I roll" from day one.

In short, yeah, if you're judging it in chronological order with the associated passing of time (you know, like you all were), Nikose wasn't obviously mafia. I made my statements based on my recollection of events, and further examination has shown that those statements don't hold to how things went down, only how they looked to me half-remembering a quickly skimmed day two. I was totally wrong.

For that, FoS: Me.

Also, I don't think enough praise has been lavished on BF for single-handedly sending most of Arkham back to their cells.

[Geminex]

Yeah, that was pretty nice. I know from experience how hard it can be as a lone mafiate against the world (hatland), but he pulled through beautifully. Definitely gonna check out his posts later on.

Though the inactivity really helped him. I dunno how well he would have stood up to actualy questioning.

[Nikose Tyris]

I had actually called RO on being the SK at start of game. That was me trying to provoke a response/hit from him at night for it to prove my suspicion.

I'm not actually sure of Moogle wants me posting in after game discussion or not; I've avoided it thus far out of respect of my punishment/banning from the game, and if he says to, I'll not post again after this one.

Edit: I'm also a huge batman fanboy; the posting of the lists was me literally excited to be seeing Moogle's plan and storyline, because holy shit he put a lot of work into it, and you can see it in the night posts especially. So happy about that.

Edit 2: Also, my Geminex defense of "Nah Nigma gets it wrong" was fucking painful to even try and say for the reason under Edit #1.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Yeah, it really looked like Moogle put some work into it, and I really enjoyed this game. I know this probably isn't the place for it, but I'm not currently holding bans that Moogle has placed on my game for now. (Admittedly, I'll be keeping a closer eye on offenders doing the best I can) I am just not of the opinion that a ban from mafia FOREVAS should be done from the first instance of it. (One because bigger games are funner, and two because I'm willing to think you guys were being idiots, not really because you were truly trying to undermine the game).

If this thread really isn't the place to put it, sorry about that Moogle, but I wanted to state that somewhere.

[Nikose Tyris]

We were just being idiots. It has come up once or twice in the past where I've been guilty of this and it was really, really obvious, and WAS in a game-breaking capacity [House of Cards] but the result was a funny ending, so everyone seemed to be cool with it.

I was holding off on signing up for your game, but if you'll have me in it, IC, I'd join.