The Spy Among Us Mafia

[Inbred Chocobo]

An Alarm goes off, Code 1059. Experts in this code already knows what it means, others grab their employee manuals and flip to the code page to understand. Code 1059, A Rogue group has infiltrated the Agency, and a security breach has been detected. All groups are to report into the main lobby. Once there, security will locate who has not appeared, and be dispatched to remove the rogue group. The lock down will stay in effect until all threats to the Agency has been removed.

Everyone gathers around in the Lobby, and security start checking out the cameras and motion sensors. They find no one, and realize that everyone that was in the building when the lock down initiated is in this room. Everyone looks around at each other. Agency tends to keep employees separated, so very few people recognize each other, but lingering in their thoughts, they know someone is scum in here. After a moment, lock down then shuts off access to the cameras and motion sensors, and everyone looks around nervously.

Day 1 has started. With 14 people, it will take a 8 majority to lynch. If you did not receive a message with your role, please send me a private message and I will give you your role.

Winners: No One, Everyone lost. Good job guys.

1.) Geminex aka BahamutFlare2: Vigilante, Town Aligned, Lynched Day 5
2.) Ryanderman: Deathmiller, Town Aligned, on death revealed as Mafian Thug, Mafia Aligned Shot Night 2
3.) Karesh: Miller, Town Aligned Shot Night 4
4.) Moogle0119: Vengeful Townine, Town Aligned, Suicided Day 6
5.) Hawk: DeathMiller, Town Aligned, on death revealed as Mafia Don, Mafia Aligned Lynched Day 4
6.) Fenilicious who is now Ecks: Deputy, Town Aligned Shot Night 3
7.) Mr. Bookworm aka Ecks2, Vigilante, Town Aligned Shot Night 4
8.) Sifright: Nurse in Training, Town Aligned, Shot Night 5
9.) Aldurin: The man with the answers, Town Aligned Shot Night 1
10.) Nikose Tyris: Vengeful Townie, Town Aligned Shot Night 2
11.) Lawful Neutral who is Neo-Nikose: DeathMiller, Town Aligned on death revealed as Mafian Thug, Mafia Aligned, Lynched Day 3
12.) BahamutFlare: Miller, Town Aligned, Lynched Day 1
13.) greed: Mayor, Town Aligned, Shot Night 1
14.) Smarty McBarrelpants: Hobo, Town Aligned, Shot Night 3

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Vote: Fenris
Fuck that dude.

[Moogle0119]

Vote: Smarty

For bandwagoning at the last second and joining.

[Aldurin]

Vote: Moogle

For improper sentence structure.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Vote: Nikose Tyris.
No further explanation needed.

[Nikose Tyris]

VOTE: Nikose Tyris

because really it's the most logical choice.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Vote: Aldurin

No explaination needed.

[Geminex]

Vote: Kerensky

[greed]

Vote: Bookworm

Cause who is he kidding?

[Mr.Bookworm]

Cause who is he kidding?

Your mom.

In her vagina.

With my penis.

Vote: Truth

Because we all know it'll be swinging from the chandelier by the end of today.

[Nikose Tyris]

Okay, so for my usual day one blatant stabs in the dark that are correct when I am not mafia, I'm saying Greed and Sifright are scum.

Like not going to act on it or anything, I'm just going to wait and see if this is correct, if I'm going to continue my streak of "Well fuck he did it again".

[Ryanderman]

So, I don't know if this is the right way to play this role, but I can't see any other way to do it. Any damage caused the town by muddying the waters with my role claim would be, I think, far outweighed by the damage caused the town by the misinformation that would be generated upon my death. So I'm going to roleclaim, and see what happens. Also, it'll give everyone an idea of what sort of lying IC is going to do this game.

I am the Death Miller, Town Aligned. While I will investigate as town, upon my death the GM will proclaim me to be a Mafia Thug. That will be a lie.

[BahamutFlare]

This is gonna be the easiest game ever. My PM says I win when the town wins. When implies we will! Unless IC is lying!

Vote: Ryanderman

The correct spelling in this game is Mafian thug. For I am normal miller and got info that I am investigated as a Mafian Thug. I don't think that town and town got separate spellings. This is by far the best D1 lead ever.

[Aldurin]

Wait, BF is that a legit counter claim? What's the colory text stuff for you?

[Sifright]

Okay..

Looks like we have either two town millers or one of them is mafia.. decisions.

Vote:Ryanderman

Ryanderman claimed miller first and thus mafia are very unlikely to counter claim as miller at this stage as it leads to a sure death next game day thus I am happy to believe Bahamutflare claim.

[Aldurin]

I can get behind that, I guess. Though the contrast from a proper claim to casual claim is kinda weird.

Unvote: Moogle

Vote: Ryanderman

Derp mafia(n) is derp.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Or you know, Ryander just accidentally left an N off the end of his claim guys. I mean seriously, are you voting for him because you don't believe his claim or because he left a damn N off the end of Mafia?

If it's the latter then you're all stupid.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

And if it's the former then I can actually back him up there becuase I have almost exactly the same role Deathmiller, Town Aligned, except when I die I get revealed as the Mafian Don, Mafia Aligned.

[Ryanderman]

I didn't go back to my role pm to copy paste. I just typed it out as I remembered it, and added colors as appropriate. So I left off an N. Oops. You're going to lunch me over that?

Both BF and I could easily be Millers.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

What the fuck is going on here.
Unvote: Fenris

Vote: BahamutFlare

Cause lynching a deathmiller makes no sense and gives us no information- the PO should check them out.
Lynching a normal miller makes massive sense because there is no way we can PO them so might as well just off them.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I didn't go back to my role pm to copy paste. I just typed it out as I remembered it, and added colors as appropriate. So I left off an N. Oops. You're going to lunch me over that?

Both BF and I could easily be Millers.

They could, but right now everyone who voted for you is looking scummy as fuck, especially BF for voting on the basis of a clear misstype.

I was a bit unsure how to run with this role myself until I saw you reveal it, and then everybody jumped on you so I decided to throw my lot in and back you up, because you're clearly town and the only person I trust now.

For now I'm gona

Unvote: Aldurin

Vote: BahamutFlare

Because a) standard miller claim that can't be checked and b) shitty reasoning to lynch Ryander. Also fuck millers!

[Sifright]

Unvote:ryanderman

Okay I fucked up, I read ryanders and Bahamutflares post just before rushing out to get to work.

I was under the mistaken impression that they were both claiming normal miller. rather than death miller.. although this is pretty wacky that three people have the same role.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

No BF is claiming normal miller, Ryand death miller.

[Sifright]

Just a thing to consider, Ryanderman states he will show up mafia/n thug when he is lynched and has the role "Death Miller" Hawk states that his role is the same yet he identifies differently when dieing am I the only one that is suspicious of that?

I would have presumed that two people with the same role name would have the exact same effects.

Fos:Hawk
Ryanderman

Only 13 of us so I can see there being only two mafiates.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Man this better not be there is no actual mafia game. Cause i'll cut a bitch.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Just a thing to consider, Ryanderman states he will show up mafia/n thug when he is lynched and has the role "Death Miller" Hawk states that his role is the same yet he identifies differently when dieing am I the only one that is suspicious of that?

I would have presumed that two people with the same role name would have the exact same effects.

Fos:Hawk
Ryanderman

Only 13 of us so I can see there being only two mafiates.

Why would you presume we have the exact same effects? There is no evidence for or against that.

My role info states that I'm an elite member of the Agency and have spent 5 years infiltrating an enemy organisation in order to set them to war with another organisation. I'm working on extracting myself but still have some things to finish off. I know that if somebody looks too hard they would find I am in fact Agency (town) aligned, but to everyone else I still appear to be the head of the organisation I've infiltrated.

I imagine Ryanders role would be similar. Basically we're double agents working inside the mafia, presumably trying to make them fight the cult (if there still is one, this game was supposed to have more people). There may or may not be more death millers too, I can't say.

To be honest, I imagine the mafia will probably kill either me or Ryander tonight, and the best thing for town to do would be to investigate one of us and try to confirm us as being actually town. If a PO can confirm either one of us, it should confirm the other. The mafia will probably want one of us dead first thing though to stop that confirmation and thus a voting block forming around us. If you guys hadn't been so quick to jump on the first person to reveal his role I might not have had to reveal mine and confirm for you all that this is actually the kind of spy vs spy type game that IC has set up, but oh well.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

There was no real incentive for any of you dudes tor eveal your roles. You just got the day 1 jitts

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Well it got conversation going, and hopefully confirms one or both of us.

No one else is doing much right now, except trying to lynch anyone who claims anything.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Or like "Lynch anyone who claims the a scummy role day 1 with no provocation" . Only 3 people rvoted Ryand, all three of whom are insane. Like are you trying to scare the town into not voting. Cause you are misrepresenting everything and blowing everything out of proportion so town is afraid to lynch people anymore.

[Nikose Tyris]

On the one hand, Deathmiller could be legitimate.

On the other hand, this could be a (somewhat) clever plan to explain why you'll appear town when investigated (due to reverse miller), and Mafia when you die, helping to mask your numbers.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

The point about the deathmiller is they could be legit or dudes playing some kind of wacky game. But if we lynch them we don't learn anything which is the problem. It's best to just leave them till we have other information to go off.
The PO could potentially investigate them if he wants though its up to him.

However claiming miller is suspicious as all fuck because you are basically just buying yourself immunity from PO which the deathmiller does not have as such.

[Nikose Tyris]

Well see

If they were reverse millers in the sense that investigated, they turn up town, and revealed as mafia on death? that would work too, and that's kind of the angle I'm not seeing addressed.

Also this could just be a massively elaborate game where the mafia doesn't actually know any other mafiates, and the mafia believes they ARE town- these deathmillers may actually be the mafiates.

[Sifright]

I'm up for lynching hawk, his story doesn't follow, or rather it stops following once you take into account that it lists him as the mafia don when he dies, which from the fluff perspective he is putting forward doesn't make sense.

Vote:Hawk

I understand that when he dies it won't prove him guilty or innocent as he truly could be a death miller... but his claim strikes me to much as exactly what you would want every one to believe if you are the mafia don and investigate as town from a PO.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Two "death" millers seems a bit much. We might be onto some kind of overarching theme for the game there.


Would we have any other "Death" millers willing to come forth and further complicate this sordid tale, perhaps?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Well see

If they were reverse millers in the sense that investigated, they turn up town, and revealed as mafia on death? that would work too, and that's kind of the angle I'm not seeing addressed.


Two people are already claiming this? And I am saying not to lynch them for that very reason and instead lyncht he person who claims to be a straight miller. Not sure what you're smoking.

[BahamutFlare]

Miller, Town Aligned. Win condition being win when town wins. As mentioned before. The death millers...what's your win condition.

So there's now two mafia dons. You being so close to them, I'd bet you'd know who they are. Frankly, I don't trust death millers. I believe they've been lied to because how can there be 2 mafia dons? You are the mafia don Hawk. Also, you could very well be town and our true enemy is cult/SK/5th party. There may be no actual mafia.

Unvote: Ryanderman
Vote: Hawk

(Sorry, I get lazy when it comes to colors, I do casual unless asked. And I see Hawk used MafiaN also, so I have no idea what logic train to use except that there can't be more than 1 mafia don)

Who wants to bet that mafia has a reverse death miller that infiltrated town?

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Miller, Town Aligned. Win condition being win when town wins. As mentioned before. The death millers...what's your win condition.

So there's now two mafia dons. You being so close to them, I'd bet you'd know who they are. Frankly, I don't trust death millers. I believe they've been lied to because how can there be 2 mafia dons? You are the mafia don Hawk. Also, you could very well be town and our true enemy is cult/SK/5th party. There may be no actual mafia.

Unvote: Ryanderman
Vote: Hawk

(Sorry, I get lazy when it comes to colors, I do casual unless asked. And I see Hawk used MafiaN also, so I have no idea what logic train to use except that there can't be more than 1 mafia don)

Who wants to bet that mafia has a reverse death miller that infiltrated town?

Something very odd is going on this game, I was going to keep this hidden for a bit longer but with all the millers out the woodwork:
Miller, Town aligned.
That makes at least 1, (If I'm the only one being honest) and at most 4 millers.

[Ryanderman]

My role flavor states that my work for the agency has left a bad paper trail for me, that would paint a bad picture of me to anyone who found it. So I carry it on me at all times. I assume that the death flavor for me would be someone finding the documents on me, and coming to the conclusion that I work for the rogue group.

My flavor also states that if only someone would come talk to me, I could get someone on my side. Which relates to being investigated as town, I'd assume.

My win condition is that I win when town wins.

I cannot confirm Hawk's role claim, nor flavor. Our role flavors are very different, I know nothing of infiltrating anyone. In fact, Hawk's role flavor makes me somewhat suspicious of him, as it could be a neat ploy by the mafia don, sensing an opportunity after I role claimed.

The reason I felt I should role claim right off on day 1 was that I knew I could die at any time, and if the town thought I was mafia after I died they'd be off on any future calculations of how many mafia are left. Any interactions I had with anyone during the day would be seen in an incorrect light, and could lead to suspicion being cast on people undeservedly. Anything I said while alive would be viewed with suspicion, and could undo any positive contributions I make. Regardless of the town's reaction to my role claim, lynching me or not, I felt that ensuring the town had the correct information from which to work was vitally important.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Miller, Town Aligned. Win condition being win when town wins. As mentioned before. The death millers...what's your win condition.

So there's now two mafia dons. You being so close to them, I'd bet you'd know who they are. Frankly, I don't trust death millers. I believe they've been lied to because how can there be 2 mafia dons? You are the mafia don Hawk. Also, you could very well be town and our true enemy is cult/SK/5th party. There may be no actual mafia.

Unvote: Ryanderman
Vote: Hawk

(Sorry, I get lazy when it comes to colors, I do casual unless asked. And I see Hawk used MafiaN also, so I have no idea what logic train to use except that there can't be more than 1 mafia don)

Who wants to bet that mafia has a reverse death miller that infiltrated town?

How would a deathmiller showing up as mafia don make two mafia dons. that's dumb.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Miller, Town Aligned. Win condition being win when town wins. As mentioned before. The death millers...what's your win condition.

I am town aligned. I win when town wins. That is what town aligned means. Did I really have to explain that?

So there's now two mafia dons.

No, there is probably only 1 mafia don, I just show as the don upon death.

You being so close to them, I'd bet you'd know who they are. Frankly, I don't trust death millers. I believe they've been lied to because how can there be 2 mafia dons? You are the mafia don Hawk. Also, you could very well be town and our true enemy is cult/SK/5th party. There may be no actual mafia.

We haven't been lied to, it explicitly states what my alignment is and who I win with, which is town.


This is the damn problem with any kind of miller tough, for once I get to actually make a claim and be completely honest and open about exactly what I am, and you all want to immediately lynch me. I've told you what I am, I've even given you my entire role info near verbatim, what else can I do here?

[Nikose Tyris]

Assumption: Death Millers are actually mafia.

Proposal: Act on this assumption.

[Aldurin]

Something very odd is going on this game, I was going to keep this hidden for a bit longer but with all the millers out the woodwork:
Miller, Town aligned.
That makes at least 1, (If I'm the only one being honest) and at most 4 millers.

Wait, let me get this straight.

Deathmiller claims:
Hawk
Ryanderman

Normal Miller claims
Karesh
BahamutFlare

I honestly get the feeling that one of the deathmiller claims is legit, since IC said that certain roles would modify what he says.

Unvote: Ryanderman

I'm going to give this some more time to boil.

[BahamutFlare]

How would a deathmiller showing up as mafia don make two mafia dons. that's dumb.

Hawk shows up as mafian don when dead. cool. Isn't there an actual mafian don though? meaning the network would have two dons. Who is going to be doing the killing? An underling? If Hawk isn't the Don, there's gotta be another don out there. This is what I meant. Who will be doing the killing? I'm a bit confused, so my words are well confusing. Sorry about this.

I kinda believe all the miller claims right now. Death or normal. I believe it especially because of the pairs. I wouldn't doubt pairs of a lot of things. Maybe 2 PO's. However, what Nikose says is what echoes.

Unvote: Hawk
Vote: Gem

I'll never get a tell on him anyway, and I'm going back to semi-random.

[Nikose Tyris]

Geminex is probably the vig actually.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Nikose stop being purposefully unhelpful.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Hawk shows up as mafian don when dead. cool. Isn't there an actual mafian don though? meaning the network would have two dons. Who is going to be doing the killing? An underling? If Hawk isn't the Don, there's gotta be another don out there. This is what I meant. Who will be doing the killing? I'm a bit confused, so my words are well confusing. Sorry about this.



One of them isn't a Don though. Assuming Hawk is correct he is not a Don and just appears to be one on death. the one doing the killing is the one who is actually a Don, ie no the deathmiller.

[Nikose Tyris]

Karesh stop being the PO.

[Geminex]

Okay. Things have been summed up pretty well already.

Millers could either be standard scum, or actual millers. Millers would claim to prevent the PO from wasting investigations, scum would claim to protect themselves from PO investigations.

Death millers could either be legit townies or could actually be Dons, as has already been stated. Now.

I can see why the role of "Legit" Death Miller would exist, namely to deprive us of post-lynch information. If we lynch a claimed death miller, we glean less information from the result of that lynch.

What rationale would scum have to claim death miller? Obviously, it is a way for a don to hide that he was don post-lynch. That obscures the amount of lynched scum players. At the same time, though, it draws attention to the don, and raises the question of whether or not he, in fact, is a don.

I don't think the first death miller claim is a don, because, unless scum have a lot of extra info, they wouldn't have had any information that the role existed in the first place. The second? Might be. It's a Wifom question.

Of course, they could both be scum, hiding under the death miller mantle, but I don't believe that. Two dons would be weird. And given the theme of the game, death millers seem plausible.

So my real response is "I have no idea, but let's not bee too hasty with our lynches".

[Geminex]

And our fallback can always be to lynch nikose. : D

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Why is everyone focused on the deathmiller claims and not the miller claims!

[Sifright]

because hawks death miller claim is the perfect cover for a mafia don to take? it's why i've voted to lynch him. Although killing the standard millers might be a good idea as well.

The problem is we have three people that the PO can't verify, The two standard millers and the death miller that claims when he dies it will show Mafia don. There have been plenty of games where the mafia dons power has been that he identifies as town.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Why would that be the perfect cover and not the stupidest cover.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Ok, so you all assume I'm the mafia don. So I ask you a simple question then; why in the hell would I bother making any claim at all, especially on the very first day?

Mafia dons generally have the power that, if investigated, they show as town, which is what happens if I'm investigated anyway. If I was the mafia don I would already show up as being town and wouldn't need to claim death miller, thus drawing attention to myself in the first place. I could have just sat back, let you all carry on, probably left you all to lynch Ryander or one of the other millers and avoided attention entirely, then if I got investigated I would show as town.

There would be far too much risk for a mafia don to go and make such a bold claim so early for no reason, drawing everyones attention for no reason when he could just sit back, let himself maybe get investigated and not risk the ire of every other player. For a faction that generally wants to keep its head down and go unnoticed it's literally the worst possible way to play.

The only thing a deathmiller claim would help a mafia do is mask his death, which is not something that really matters all that much, and I should know, having been killed off as mafia several times in other games, generally early on. Why would I care so much about what my death looks like in this game, when it's never mattered in any past game, to the point of drawing everyones attention when I needn't have bothered?

The only reason I would have claimed death miller is because I actually am one, and I claimed because I'm pretty damn certain Ryander is town too since his role is almost identical, between us both we've already got (at least for me) 2 confirmed townies, in a game of 14 players. On day 1. It was my hope that backing up Ryander would get town more confirmed townies, reveal to the town that this game is going to be full of misdirection and confusion (as befits a game about spies) and get peoples attention focused on the now reduced number of possible suspects. Clearly this did not happen.



As for the other millers, I'm also thinking maybe Kareshs miller claim may be genuine too, since it seems he revealed himself to show that there are in fact a lot more millers roles this game than normal, which I already know to be true. I'm still suspicious as all hell of BF though, and not because of his miller claim, more his blatant obfuscating "logic". I get the feeling he's being deliberately obtuse about stuff in order to get votes started. Missing Ns after Mafia, not realising town aligned means "wins when town does" and multiple dons just because a miller shows as one are some of the flimsiest and stupidest reasons to suspect someone ever.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Pretty much everything Hawk says. The whole deathmiller suspicion is based on fuck all and is stupid.

WHy aren't we lynching the millers who are trying to buy immunity from POs because that is a sketchy claim- deathmiller is not a particularly sketchy claim.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Also as I sad lynching the deathmiller doesn't achieve us anything- it will show as mafia when he is dead but we don't know what that means and we are in the same place as we were at the start of day 1. If say we're down to a few people and we're still dying and we haven't found any mafia then lynch the deathmiller and see if the killings stop. Lynching them day 1 makes no sense.

[Nikose Tyris]

Reason I'm suspicious of Death Millers: Because Inbred outright told us he'd be lying to us in this game. There's no reason for me not to suspect that he told a Death Miller they're town, when they are in fact mafia.

That's the entire justification here.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

But if the mafia think they town they not going to kill anyone?

Like I'm open to the suggestion that there is no mafia, that the mafia don't know who they are or things and actaully think its pretty likely- the idea that these deathmillers are the mafia seems reasonable- but like we should at least see what halppens during the night before jumping to conclusions.

[Nikose Tyris]

True nuff.

*Points at Sifright* I blindly suspect him as I already stated.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Ok, I can see where you are coming from with regards to the "deathmillers may be mafia/may not know it/may not be any mafia at all" thing, but if you read ICs post (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=1182965&postcount=1), he explicitly says there is a mafia, and that the only lieing is being done by roles with the power to change what he says.

He did not say there may or may not be a mafia, like he did for Cult, SK and 5th Unknown party. He never said he'd be lieing about the roles he'd hand out, only that some roles can manipulate what he says. So I find it very hard to believe that me and Ryander are the mafia, because lieing to us outright in our own role pms would just inherently screw us over from the start and make it near impossible for either of us to win, unless it was completely by accident.

I really doubt IC would do that, because it would severely limit our ability to win if we were really the mafia and didn't know it. And if you're assuming he's lied about our 2 roles, then you have to ask yourselves if he's lied about your own. Maybe he's lied about everyone's role then, and what kind of clusterfuck game would that make? I know that doesn't make any sense for him to do, but it makes as much sense as him lieing to the mafia about what they are so they are immediately handicapped for the entire game.

[Nikose Tyris]

If he lied about all our roles, that would make an infinitely amusing game.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

To you, maybe. Most of us would prefer a more normal type of game, filled with less bastard roles like your game had which, as I recall pissed off quite a few people because none of us knew what was happening or had any ability to do anything because all the misdirects just made any attempt to do anything impossible.

And if this game is going to end up like yours then I'd prefer to know now so I can drop out because fuck that.

[BahamutFlare]

Hey sometimes really absurd logic is the way to go one a D1. I don't care what anyone says. A little slip of attention to detail is what the true mafia is gonna do. Or just not say anything. Speaking of not saying anything, who's still silent through this miller talk? Greed and Bookie!

FoS until 'They're probably the PO/BG/Vig'
Unvote: Gem

[Nikose Tyris]

Remember, I DID say that Greed and Sif were probably mafia.

[Fenris]

I also haven't posted in the thread, and I find it suspicious that none of you noticed.

[Aldurin]

Oh right, Lawful hasn't posted yet. WE DEMAND YOUR THOUGHTS.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

I also haven't posted in the thread, and I find it suspicious that none of you noticed.

I noticed, but I know how you like to sit back and watch day one as we all beat each other with imaginary clubs to the head all for your own amusement. I'm still trying to work out if that's a scum tell you have or if that's just how you always play.

[greed]

Also as I sad lynching the deathmiller doesn't achieve us anything- it will show as mafia when he is dead but we don't know what that means and we are in the same place as we were at the start of day 1. If say we're down to a few people and we're still dying and we haven't found any mafia then lynch the deathmiller and see if the killings stop. Lynching them day 1 makes no sense.

I pretty much agree with all of this, it makes sense. I will add that two death millers seems a bit odd and that therefore Hawk's claim seems a bit suspicious to me but I'll hold off. Same deal with two regular millers. On the other hand the theme of the game lends itself to the role being important.

[BahamutFlare]

Vote: Bookworm

I want to get rid of one of the ones that became quiet whenever all this started. Greed is another good choice. I'm sure I'm missing people, so speak up or I'll FoS you alllllllllllll!!!!!

[BahamutFlare]

And then Greed talked. Curse you and ruining my fos! Ninja'd me.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Do we have vote dedline and a current count. We see where we are at

[Inbred Chocobo]

Vote Count

Smarty Mcbarrelpants (1)
~Moogle0119

Nikose Tyris (2)
~"Half Assed" karesh
~Nikose Tyris

Mr.Bookworm (2)
~greed
~BahamutFlare

BahamutFlare (2)
~Smarty McBarrelpants
~Hawk

Hawk (1)
~Sifright

No deadline has been set yet, it is 8 to lynch. (If I missed anything let me know)

[Nikose Tyris]

...Hm.

Unvote: Nikose Tyris

[Mr.Bookworm]

I was mainly attempting to hang back because at least some of the millers are probably lying, and I suspect that the mafia is trying to push the lynch onto someone innocent.

Dunno. Need to gather more data.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

...Hm.

Unvote: Nikose Tyris

Suuuuuuspicious.

[Nikose Tyris]

Actually, I'm pretty sure this is more suspicious.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/267/doineedthis.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/doineedthis.png/)
Just sayin'.

At some point I should probably check what my role is.

[Aldurin]

Vote: Nikose Tyris

I can't let that bullshit fly. Like, totally can't.

[Nikose Tyris]

I figure, it's day 1, we're all throwing bullshit, why even check till tomorrow.

[Ryanderman]

If your goal is obfuscation and hindering anyone's ability to identify behavior patterns from game to game, it's a surprisingly effective tactic.

[Nikose Tyris]

My hat is an antelope.

[BahamutFlare]

And now I start to see why D1 usually falls back to 'Lets lynch Nikose.'

[Geminex]

On the one hand, smarty does have a bit of a point about the millers. Claiming death miller helps scum limit the info town gets from lynching their don.

On the other hand, claiming miller gives them a concrete survival advantage, because they can better survive PO investigations.

Of course, the value of a PO in a game like this is, at best, questionable, and, at worst, nonexistant. So the question remains, does it make sense for scum to claim miller? I don't know. My approach to miller claims so far is to disregard them. They might be genuine, they might not, all we know is that a PO shouldn't investigate those people.

And on the other other hand, Nikose is playing surrealist mafia by the looks of it. What was that quote about mafia being a game of chess, but nikose is playing monopoly?

Because that would be fitting right now.

[Sifright]

Unvote:Hawk

Vote:Nikose

Whether he is town or not he's only hindering every one by acting the way he is. So yes I'm recommending a policy lynch is lieu of anything else to go on.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

The thing about the PO might be worthless thus scum would claim miller doesn't particularly hold up because BFs claim was before we had the crticial mass of claims that would tell you roles are a bit funky.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

And on the other other hand, Nikose is playing surrealist mafia by the looks of it. What was that quote about mafia being a game of chess, but nikose is playing monopoly?

Because that would be fitting right now.

More like we're all playing that multi-level 3d chess from start trek, only with a pre-chess variant where all the starting pieces and their positions are randomized on a hexagonal board and with a lot more players and there's chess boxing rules mixed in.

Nikose on the other hand, is playing fucking jenga.

Unvote:Hawk

Vote:Nikose

Whether he is town or not he's only hindering every one by acting the way he is. So yes I'm recommending a policy lynch is lieu of anything else to go on.

I could get behind this, at the very least to put pressure on him to force him to check his role.

Unvote: Bahamut

Vote: Nikose

Check your damn role man, becuase if it turns out you are in fact town then you're being nothing but a hindrance right now.

[Nikose Tyris]

Things people forget in the silliness: PM's also get emailed to you, and therefore the entire thing was just silliness.

Also- Town. Not Quite-Vanilla. Not useful at all.

I'm still sayin' Sifright.

[BahamutFlare]

Ok. If it isn't useful at all, why would you even tell us that much information? It seems that you would either tell us the whole thing or nothing at all.

Based on the information, you must be another miller of some kind or mafia.

[Nikose Tyris]

Actually, neither! I'm a fill-in role for when someone else dies. I'm useless until then.

[Nikose Tyris]

Also, VOTE: SIFRIGHT

To at least have a token attempt away from my death here. This game is getting way too quiet; it's day 1, c'mon now.

[greed]

Nikose whole thing was just kinda silly and disruptive and while it got discussion going it all focused on his shenanigans and didn't really do anything for the betterment of the town. So


Vote: Nikose


Cause No lynch is the worst policy and we're probably getting close to the deadline.

[Nikose Tyris]

[Greed just knows he's on my list of probable mafia too]

[Sifright]

unvote:nikose

Will write up why later on but nikoses earlier post points to him not being mafia, I still think he is disruptive though.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I'd be willing to unvote Nikose if he promises to stop being disruptive. As it is, town or not he's practically confirmed as a negative for our side unless he has a power role to counterbalance his behavior.

Like, I'm sorry Nik but you pretty much have a categorical history of being as unuseful as you possibly can be at this point. You actually seem to revel in it at times, and while it can be funny here and there it just really feels like iy's gone way too long and too far at this point.

[Aldurin]

I'd be willing to unvote Nikose if he promises to stop being disruptive. As it is, town or not he's practically confirmed as a negative for our side unless he has a power role to counterbalance his behavior.

Like, I'm sorry Nik but you pretty much have a categorical history of being as unuseful as you possibly can be at this point. You actually seem to revel in it at times, and while it can be funny here and there it just really feels like iy's gone way too long and too far at this point.

Pretty much this whole thing for me too. And come on, Nik, I try harder than you.

[Nikose Tyris]

Pretty much this whole thing for me too. And come on, Nik, I try harder than you.

And yet I systemically have a stronger impact and am more accurate with my choices. Fancy that.

I'll drop the silly factor, then; although I'm assuming that by tomorrow I'll be able to confidently declare the mafia.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Unvote: Nikose Tyris

[BahamutFlare]

To be frank, everyone has their own way of having fun. Heck, even I thought of not looking at my role for a while to get me in the mindset of playing a certain way. I'm not gonna fault Nikose for being unhelpful in that way. And I don't think it means a policy lynch or anything.

1.) Geminex
2.) Ryanderman - Deathmiller
3.) Karesh - Miller
4.) Moogle0119
5.) Hawk - Deathmiller
6.) Fenilicious
7.) Mr. Bookworm
8.) Sifright
9.) Aldurin
10.) Nikose Tyris - Role thief upon others death?
11.) Lawful Neutral
12.) BahamutFlare - Miller
13.) greed
14.) Smarty McBarrelpants

Now my proposed strategy is to go after an unknown. I think after a couple or a few days, I'd like to go after a death miller if they are still alive. Which unknown to go after? My choice is leaning towards Gem. Usually, I expect a big logical conclusion from him and his last post was a display of the obvious. He said disregard the millers and death millers (which I agree with for D1), but if he turns to be mafia, I imagine one of the 3 other millers are lying. Of which, Karesh was really hesitant to say he was a miller. Now that he has been accepted as a miller (Rather no one has really questioned him), he may be a bit more confident now which he seemed when going after Nikose.

[Nikose Tyris]

The silence is boring; Silence on Day 1 makes shit awkward and weird and doesn't bode well for the lifetime of the game.

C'mon, people. It's still day 1. Shenanigans are still acceptable.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Why haven't we lynched BF yet. We should do this.

[Nikose Tyris]

Nono, it's Sifright and Greed. BahamutFlare is just the SK, he's not really anything special, we can nail him tomorrow.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

BahamutFlare is just the SK,


Based on what?

[Nikose Tyris]

Based on I said so.

[Nikose Tyris]

Hm, that'll just irk people. I should give more of a description.

Everyone has a set pattern they play in, and set responses; everyone has a reaction pattern based on forwarding their own goals. BahamutFlare's patterns tend to be less cautious when he's playing town; He votes more confidently and pays less attention, knowing he's part of the majority and the onus isn't on him to survive. Contrastly, in a mafia, he'll hold back on frequent posting, to split up among the rest of the group to bounce conversation back and forth in the thread to keep from he being the game's focus point.

Ergo, the conclusion I reached was Serial Killer. Based entirely on preconceptions of play.

[Nikose Tyris]

However, one should note that I'm also not voting for him, and giving time to see how the accusation settles with BF and his response; now that I've explained all this, he'll know how to avoid it and it weakens my preferred playstyle, which admittedly irks me slightly.

I enjoy predictive play more than the actual game.

[BahamutFlare]

What? I've been paying close attention to details even if I'm not acting like it. D1 I have found out that throwing out accusations usually can get people talking. D2, I can come up with more of a solid conclusion based on data. As of right now, I got hunches. Greed, Gem, and Karesh would be my guesses. If I was Vig or SK, I'd go Greed as of right now. So Nikose, I'm not gonna change my play style at all. You shall not be irked!

[Aldurin]

Hm, this is the longest D1 I've been in. Can IC actually establish a deadline soon?

[Inbred Chocobo]

Hm, this is the longest D1 I've been in. Can IC actually establish a deadline soon?

NO!!!

Okay maybe, deadline 48 hours from now.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

What? I've been paying close attention to details even if I'm not acting like it. D1 I have found out that throwing out accusations usually can get people talking. D2, I can come up with more of a solid conclusion based on data. As of right now, I got hunches. Greed, Gem, and Karesh would be my guesses. If I was Vig or SK, I'd go Greed as of right now. So Nikose, I'm not gonna change my play style at all. You shall not be irked!

You know when you're one of the people on the chopping block it might not be a good idea to accuse neutral parties who might vote you out of fear that you'll get them killed at a later point.

I mean, Town is great and all but I have my individual survival to worry about. If it comes down to Nikose who is wrong because he thinks I'm the PO or you who is wrong because you think I'm scum I'm going to kill the shit out of you because you're obviously planning to do the same to me as soon as possible.

[BahamutFlare]

Well, you're only a target if Gem dies and he turns up mafia. If I'm wrong, which this is just a D1 hunch that something seems off, so I could possibly be, then I have no worries from you Karesh.

You gotta be foolish to believe that I'm a SK anyway. Making this many enemies D1 is foolish for mafia or SK to do. especially a SK. As a SK, I'd pretty much have doomed my win already.

Moogle and Fenris, speak up! I doubt we'll get anything useful out of Fenris since he'll keep his opinion to himself.

[Nikose Tyris]

Also, I think I have the most votes on me, so uh

Could someone fix that or am I just the day 1 sacrifice?

[Moogle0119]

I'm pretty sure Nikose isn't scum, that's why I'm not going to vote for him this time.

As far as the whole miller/death miller thing, I honestly don't know what to make of it all. It'll be hard to judge either of them anyway since as IC said, there are roles in this game that can manipulate what IC says, so I'm assuming that means lynch posts as well as night posts may be altered from the actual truth. Can we get a current vote count?

[Inbred Chocobo]

Current Vote Count

Smarty Mcbarrelpants (1)
~Moogle0119

Nikose Tyris (3)
~Aldurin
~Hawk
~greed

Mr.Bookworm (1)
~BahamutFlare

BahamutFlare (1)
~Smarty McBarrelpants

Sifright (1)
~Nikose Tyris

Let me know if I missed any votes.


REMINDER: You have about 25 hours left until deadline.

[Ryanderman]

I'm going to

Vote: greed

Because of this post:

I pretty much agree with all of this, it makes sense. I will add that two death millers seems a bit odd and that therefore Hawk's claim seems a bit suspicious to me but I'll hold off. Same deal with two regular millers. On the other hand the theme of the game lends itself to the role being important.

Which sounds exactly like a noncommittal, stay in the background at all costs attempt to cast doubt on the deathmiller claims, in the hope of creating an opportunity to lynch them later, and avoid building a town voting block.

I'm tempted to Vote for BahamutFlare instead, based on pretty much the same argument SMB is making, but the way he jumped on me, and his roleclaim, seem to be going a bit too far out on a limb for a mafian day 1. It doesn't fit in my mind.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Which sounds exactly like a noncommittal, stay in the background at all costs attempt to cast doubt on the deathmiller claims, in the hope of creating an opportunity to lynch them later, and avoid building a town voting block.

I'm tempted to Vote for BahamutFlare instead, based on pretty much the same argument SMB is making, but the way he jumped on me, and his roleclaim, seem to be going a bit too far out on a limb for a mafian day 1. It doesn't fit in my mind.

You're definitely right about it being noncommittal, but I'm not really sure it's quite scummy, it seems more like he's just sharing his thoughts, but having no solid basis to commit he doesn't make the leap to anything more.

I'm going to
Vote:Bahamutflare for the time being. I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that a townie would act like that.

[BahamutFlare]

Agree with Ryanderman 100%. Listen to him.

Unvote: Bookie
Vote: Greed

[Nikose Tyris]

UNVOTE

VOTE: GREED

[Inbred Chocobo]

DAY HAS BEEN ENDED EARLY DUE TO POWER USE.

Full Post to describe what has happened in a moment. Feel free to complain until then.

[Inbred Chocobo]

A special chamber sits in a room all alone in the Agency building. Its one of the few rooms that didn't lock down like it was suppose to when the lockdown commenced. This room contains a high-powered precision laser, designed for cutting the strongest of locks without ever touching anything inside, or even showing visible harm. However, it can cut anything, such as say a certain spot in the brain that immediately causes death for the subject. Its rather painless, and almost instant.

Everyone was discussing who to target, when an announcement was heard from the drills controls, which no one was in front of. "Override Codes detected from remote terminal." The laser went active, and before anyone could blink, BahamutFlare fell to the ground, laid sprawled out on the floor.

A quick search of him reveals that while he had a bad background, he really was working for the Agency. The terminal goes on cooldown, announcing that it won't be ready for use for several hours. With nothing else to do, everyone collectively decides to get some rest.



BahamutFlare: Miller, Town Aligned is dead. Night is upon us, everyone with night roles has 72 hours to send them in.

[Nikose Tyris]

Whine, Bitch, Ostensibly claim anger that I am probably the dead one.

[LightningEdit upon seeing post appear as I post] Oh hey BF is dead and I was wrong. That's bad.

[BahamutFlare]

Well, I hope I wasted a scum power. Go town!

[Inbred Chocobo]

The next day arrives, with the bodies of Aldurin and Greed lay dead, bullet holes in each of them. Odd, since no one heard a shot this morning.

Aldurin: The Man with the Answers, Town Aligned: lies dead. A quick rummage through his pockets revealed that he was apart of the IT team here, which meant he had a lot of access to quite a few terminals. Without his know-how however it working the system, it really didn't do much good.

Greed: Mayor, Town Aligned: had a bullet in his back. The biggest thing that was found on him were override codes for the laser drill. Someone entered the codes into a terminal, but found they were invalid.




Day 2 is upon you guys, no deadline yet for the end of the day.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

So I was right about Greed, wrong about Bahamut.

Bit of a bitter victory, as three townies down is a pretty harsh loss for the first night.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I'm guessing Aldurin was a PO and Greed was the one who forced the lynch.
"Odd, since no one heard a shot this morning." is a weird line. Makes me think there is something suspect about the night kills.
Not sure.

[Inbred Chocobo]

In a futile attempt to pick up discussion, I'm going ahead and set a deadline, lets say 72 hours, or 3 days.

So, Deadline will be March 1st, around 1:30 PM Eastern Time.

[Mr.Bookworm]

I'm kind of waiting for everyone else to start talking, so they can give something away.

I expect the others are doing the same.

It's like a literary Mexican standoff, only really fucking boring.

With a deadline, I'm going to do this:

Vote: Ryanderman

He's the one that got the lynch train headed towards Greedsville (presumably why greed used his power). He also accused Bahamut as a secondary suspect. Both of them are now confirmed townies.

Not huge, but it's better than nothing.

[Ryanderman]

Yeah, voting greed was a mistake. It made sense at the time, but obviously was wrong.

I didn't think BF was a secondary suspect. What I meant was that while his claim was suspicious, I didn't think his behavior fit as mafia, so I wasn't really suspicious of him.

I don't know where to look right now. Feeling kinda burned by my fail Day 1.

[Nikose Tyris]

YOUR day 1 fail, look at me! Two of my accusations fell flat entirely!

I'm entirely off my game so far.

[Inbred Chocobo]

I completely forgot to state this, but its 6 to lynch.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Yeah, not so smug any more are we Nik?

Not that I can talk, I have literally nothing to go on. The only person I know is town so far is Ryander, so I dunno, what do you reckon man?

[Nikose Tyris]

Well, I'm also town- I'm neither Miller, nor Death Miller, so if investigated, I turn up town.

Also, Smug is literally all I know in playstyle. If I'm not smug, I literally don't know what to say/do. D: It's all false confidence, I've been unmasked.

[Nikose Tyris]

Anyway I kind of want to point vicious fingers at Karesh; He's not pushing hard enough to lynch me, and the only reason I can see that he wouldn't [see all his quotes regarding me] would be if I wasn't aiming at any actual mafiates.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Well you seem to have toned the fucking around down a bit so that's good by me so far.

I've never said you were suspicious, just that you often act in a manner that is distinctly anti town even when you yourself are town.

If you start that fucking round again I'll find it in my heart to put our friendship on the line and lynch the fuck out of you.
Again.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Now that you mention it though what I do find suspicious is the misrepresentation of my statements, claiming that I was pushing for a lynch based on suspicions rather than my own personal experience for you as a player. I'm willing to pass that off as a faulty memory, but if that is the case maybe you should take your own advice and read my previous posts.

If in fact you believe I should be pushing for a lynch on you, would you care to point out what line of reasoning within my posts correlates to that? And, in the future perhaps you yourself could quote stuff rather than telling others to go back and check. Which we both know nobody is going to do.

[Nikose Tyris]

my line of reasoning for why you should be voting for me, Karesh, is that I'm usually an obnoxious wildcard regardless of who's team I'm on and that games go more smoothly when I'm lynched early; this game you made a passing reference to that and a day 1 vote that you didn't really hold to; if you were town, I would think you'd push harder against me; thus either we're masons, we're both mafia, or only one of us is mafia and it ain't me.

Mind you, talking directly out of my ass here.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Mind you, talking directly out of my ass here.

All in favor of ignoring any further ass talking from the king of asses over here?

[Nikose Tyris]

I'm not really feeling it for Ryanderman and I don't want this to end on a 1 vote lynch;

Vote: Nikose Tyris as a placeholder.

Yes this means that I could be killed, but I'm not willing to risk botching someone else either.

Again, Am town and not a miller, so I'm one of the confirmables.

[Inbred Chocobo]

So since there are only two votes, and this would be when the day is over, we have entered tie breaker day. Everyone gets an additional 24 hours to figure out how they want to vote.

[Ryanderman]

Alright then. I'm going to

Vote: Mr. Bookworm

Frustratingly, I've not got a lot to go on. He was low activity Day 1, showed suspicion of the death and regular miller claims, and voted for me. The last two aren't anything that would convince anyone else, but since I know I'm a deathmiller, I have that basis to raise my own suspicion.

[Inbred Chocobo]

And the 24 hour period is up.

People were quiet, nervous. They have 3 of their own dead, and they weren't sure what to make of it. A few people spoke up, trying to name the killers, but it was clear fear was gripping the place. Someone decided to power the laser drill and deactivate it, and just get everyone to get some rest, and get ready for the next day, as nothing was happening this day.

Send me some night-actions people.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Another peaceful night passes. Two more bodies lie in the common room, bullet holes in each of them. Still no gunshots were heard. These people that are killing must be skilled at what they do.

Ryanderman is the first body, holding onto documents linking his ties to a foreign agency. Paycheck stubs, bank account information, it was rather clear it wasn't for information, it was for money.

Nikose is the second one, and training documentation for the security team was found on him. Mostly training manuals and such. Must've been a new recruit.


Ryanderman: Mafian Thug, Mafia Aligned
Nikose: Vengeful Townie, Town Aligned

Are both dead. Day 3 has started. No deadline yet.

[Nikose Tyris]

Everything is Karesh's fault forever. >:C [/deathpost]

[Inbred Chocobo]

This Just in, Fenris is dropping from the Game!!!!

However, he has a replacement, which shall now be EckScizor.

[Ecks]

Okay I think I'll drop my incredibly ostentatious and obnoxious posting color for Mafia games, if it's all the same to you gents. It's my first time, be gentle.

Going to reread the thread before I start tossing out votes or FoS anyone, so feel free to sling around acusations until then.

[Ecks]

Having reread the thread and taken notes (yes with an actual notebook and everything) I have several people I find suspicious.

Karesh, you claimed Miller on Day 1 and you aren't dead yet. That in and of itself isn't all that suspicious. Unless the PO would like to role claim and start revealing his findings (which I'm not asking for, I'd like whoever it is to remain anonymous until absolutely necessary) the only way we find out whether you're scum or not is to lynch you.

Here's why I think we should:
Town is great and all but I have my individual survival to worry about.

That sounds retardedly suspicious to me. Being Town myself, if my death in any way served the Town I would seriously not be all that concerned about my survival. Either you're PO like you keep hinting at, you're scum hiding behind your Miller claim so the real PO won't investigate you, or you're SK... seeing as you're so concerned about your "individual" survival.

Also how the FUCK did you know it was GREED who forced Day 1 to an early close? It may have been someone else... Color me stupid as this is my first game and I may have missed a clue somewhere but GODDAMN you reek of scum.

Vote: Karesh
Also, FoS: Lawful, Moogle, and Bookie, the former two for really low activity (might you be hiding and biding your time, mafiates?) and the latter for same and also knowing somehow that greed was the one who ended Day 1 early (again, feel free to enlighten me as to how this is obvious to everyone).

There's my first action, let's see some discussion.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Greed: Mayor, Town Aligned: had a bullet in his back. The biggest thing that was found on him were override codes for the laser drill. Someone entered the codes into a terminal, but found they were invalid.

NOTE HARDER.

[Ecks]

Derp, just reread thread the fifth time and caught it. I haven't been paying super close attention to IC's posts because it's been inferred he might be lying in them, and I completely ignored everything about the dead players except whether they were town or not (though Ryan's death tells me absofuckinglutely nothing because loldeathmiller).

Fakevote: Bookie for being a douche and hiding in the background like so much scum.

[Ecks]

Also remember I'm still kinda new at this, not one hundred percent up to speed on what powers go with what roles yet.

Now everyone bandwagon vote to lynch me for being a massive tool.

[Ecks]

Something else is going on here and I'm not liking it.

The whole deathmiller suspicion is based on fuck all and is stupid.

Why would one Death Miller claim to turn up Mafian Thug and one claim to turn up the Don? That in and of itself is suspicious because, as others have already said, it is the perfect way to mask your actual affiliation upon death and confuses the number of actual mafiates killed.

Ryan was killed at night. This means that a) he was telling the truth about being town and was killed by the mafia, b) he was murdered by the SK (who doesn't give a shit what his alignment is), or c) the Vigiliante got him, in which case we STILL don't know his alignment as the vig doesn't get to learn his target's role beforehand (right? I'm not fucking up again here am I?). So we don't know if Ryan's claim was legit or not and thus I am still suspicious of both currently living Miller players.

At the moment both Karesh and Hawk make more sense to lynch than anyone else in the game at the moment. Because four of you are hiding out in the background and not posting I have no leads other than assuming you're scum just because of inactivity, hence my FoS. Karesh could be mafiate trying to hide from an investigation, and the only way to find out if his claim is legit or not is to lynch him. Hawk could be the Mafian Don hoping we'll take the apparent lack of info from a lynch on him as a reluctance to vote him, so he gets to stay in business offing the rest of us in our sleep.

Lynching either one of you will have concrete results, though, I'm certain of it. Karesh will come up Town or Mafian; If Hawk's death results in one less kill tonight, we've bagged our Don or at least the SK.

WHy aren't we lynching the millers who are trying to buy immunity from POs because that is a sketchy claim- deathmiller is not a particularly sketchy claim.

Hawk made a valid point about the Miller claims. But one turned up legit Town.

You were awfully quick to jump on Hawk's logic and deflect suspicion away from the Death Millers and onto the Millers here... You and Hawk seem quite a bit too chummy... and I don't like it.

I'm sticking with my vote for Karesh, but also FoS: Smarty and Hawk because I'm getting scummy vibes from both of you.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

That sounds retardedly suspicious to me. Being Town myself, if my death in any way served the Town I would seriously not be all that concerned about my survival. Either you're PO like you keep hinting at, you're scum hiding behind your Miller claim so the real PO won't investigate you, or you're SK... seeing as you're so concerned about your "individual" survival.

Paranoia is fantastic for Mafia, but you're really reaching for the bottom of the barrel if this is what you're going to try and lynch me for. Whether or not you or anyone else wants to admit it there's wanting your team to win first and wanting to survive to see it right up there as the second objective. In a situation like the one you oh so deliciously cherry picked that statement from, where I had two options, neither of which I could actually prove or suspect was mafia, where one is trying to kill me and the other isn't? Are you genuinely suggesting that my choice should have been to not warn Bahamut that if it came down to it I would lynch him to save myself?
If I had actually done it maybe you'd have a point but from my perspective you're taking a statement where I menacingly waved my arms at a guy and went "wooo I'm gonna get'cha if you don't stop trying to kill me" and turning it into an accusation.

Truth be told I was presented with a logic problem. The odds of myself being town were 100%. Absolutely confirmed from my perspective. Lynching me is a 100% town lynch. Bahamut I wasn't sure about, even if I wasn't happy about it there's always the chance he's scum at the least.


Also how the FUCK did you know it was GREED who forced Day 1 to an early close? It may have been someone else... Color me stupid as this is my first game and I may have missed a clue somewhere but GODDAMN you reek of scum.

It's already been pointed out how I would have known if I did know but to my knowledge I never claimed to know who ended day one. Correct me if I'm wrong on that but I don't see it.

What I did say, correlating with a statement about Greed's supposed guilt the day before, was that I believed he was Town.
As it turned out once he was dead his name popped up in yellow, so I was right about Greed, but wrong about the other thing.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Also, if adopted your logic sort of turns Town Aligned Miller into an inevitable, inescapable death for that person. If you keep your role hidden then the moment a PO investigates you, you're fucked because he will think you're a mafiate. The moment you reveal it the town will lynch you because you're potentially a mafiate, even though there's no more reason to believe you're a mafiate than any other roleclaim.

What, precisely, would you have had me do otherwise in that circumstance?

[Ecks]

I do happen to see Miller roles as a "you're fucked if you do, you're fucked if you don't" situation Karesh. Really the fact that there are Death Millers in this game has me extra suspicious because either one looks bad regardless of perspective. I'm on the fence here, I don't know whether to go with you, who will be 100% confirmed upon death, or Hawk, who none of us can confirm unless the PO roleclaims and divulges his findings.

Or go with a random lynch of any of the inactives. Or Smarty who's still suspicious.

Unvote: Karesh

But I'm still going to keep a FoS: Karesh up, because you are still potentially scum and I don't want to rule you out until I get more information. To be perfectly fair here I'm trying to drum up discussion but everyone seems to have forgotten this exists or they're laughing their asses off watching me make a fool of myself.

[Ecks]

Also the bit about greed there was when he ended the day early and then he died and was divulged as Mayor, Town Aligned. I had glossed over the post as I was too busy trying to pore through everyone else's posts seeing if I could notice suspicious behavior and voting patterns. So forget everything I said about greed, I made an extremely retarded error and threw baseless accusations around.

I'm stumped, the only acceptable lynch targets I can see are either you or Hawk and that's because you guys went right out and role claimed, generating a lot of suspicious behavior and discussion. I have literally nothing to go on as far as everyone else is concerned. Other than Gem posting a couple of times and adopting a wait and see approach and Smarty trying to butter up Hawk (both scummy tactics methinks) I either vote for one of the Millers, wait for more info, or vote randomly (and on Day 3? Strikes me as bad news if we're still random voting on Day 3).

I'm gonna wait for some more posts.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

. To be perfectly fair here I'm trying to drum up discussion but everyone seems to have forgotten this exists or they're laughing their asses off watching me make a fool of myself.

Probably the former.

[Ecks]

Vote: Geminex

Random, voting for an inactive.

Someone please remember this is a thing that still exists.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Yeah, this was basically how Mafia died the last time it was around. A game or two started, and then barely anyone posted.

Deadline is in 48 hours.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Lawful Neutral has been replaced by Nikose Tyris. Nikose had no knowledge of the game on his previous role outside of this thread.

[Nikose Tyris]

I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack.


Okay so we have actives dying, and silent players. I say we begin picking off the silents.

WHO STANDS WITH ME.

[Ecks]

Hey I've basically been making a lot of noise over here and only had bookie pop in to humiliate me by pointing out the obvious and Karesh defend himself.

I'm all for killing off the inactives. Starting with Gem as he's actually gone out and said he's taking a wait and see approach.

[Ecks]

Also I don't know if we're supposed to do this but UnFoS: Lawful-who-is-now-Nikose

Do we have to Undo an FoS or does that not actually matter?

[Nikose Tyris]

I don't think they really matter; I almost never use them.

VOTE: GEMINEX

But Karesh is probably for realz scum.

[Ecks]

So my suspicions tell me. My suspicions also tell me Hawk's scummy too, but apparently we aren't supposed to lynch the millers because being a miller is hard.

It's hard and no one understands.

[Nikose Tyris]

Nope, Lynch everyone and hope you lynched the right guys for this game.

[Ecks]

Around 30 hours to deadline people, start posting or Geminex gets it.

[Nikose Tyris]

And award for most blatant hostage taking goes to...

[Ecks]

It's day 3 and we have no leads! This calls for drastic measures!

[Nikose Tyris]

Well, yes; my advised mafia strategy previously (Earlier games) was just to kill off actives and win a war of attrition, posing as inactive while picking off what players they could.

Actually, thinking about that, I probably shouldn't have disseminated that strategy at all. Although it worked out great in Batman.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Well, yes; my advised mafia strategy previously (Earlier games) was just to kill off actives and win a war of attrition, posing as inactive while picking off what players they could.

Actually, thinking about that, I probably shouldn't have disseminated that strategy at all. Although it worked out great in Batman.

This is why mafia games die. Why the fuck would you ever do this.

[Nikose Tyris]

because it worked.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

An alternate way to win mafia would be drive around to everybodies house and beat them in the head until they are so braindamaged they will do anything you say.
See what I am getting at here?

[Sifright]

An alternate way to win mafia would be drive around to everybodies house and beat them in the head until they are so braindamaged they will do anything you say.
See what I am getting at here?

Is it that brutally murdering your opposition is an effective way to win?

also

Vote:nikose

[Nikose Tyris]

Wait. Do you even have a reason for voting for me, Sifright?

Also, by outing the strategy, we just need to start lynching the 'inactives' - or rather, the false inactives. Usually denoted by people who basically weren't posting, and started posting only after I comment about it.

So

UNVOTE

VOTE: SMARTY

[Moogle0119]

I trusted Nikose(1) and consequently voiced my opinion on that earlier, but I'm getting a completely different vibe from Nikose(2). And not a good one either.

Vote: Nikose

[Inbred Chocobo]

Deadline over, all posting must stop. Give me a moment to tally votes and write up the lynch.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Neo-Nikose, a quiet one all game, suddenly aroused the suspicion of people. He had been quiet... too quiet. This sudden change of heart (and personality... and forum name) was just too much for anyone to buy. Someone jammed in the codes to the laser, and before Neo-Nikose could argue, he dropped dead.

Rummaging through his pockets, it ends up he was involved in a money scandal with quite a few foreign groups. Checking bank account totals on the records he had, it was rather obvious that he was being paid off for information.

Lawful who is now Nikose: Mafian Thug, Mafia Aligned is dead.

Night actions have lets say 48 hours to give me something.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Another day, another two bodies laying dead. Ecks, a man who was starting to try and get people going again, apparently someone didn't like that, and the man found a bullet in his chest. Looking through the papers on him, it was clear he was training in investigation, and would've been helpful to have, though he didn't have anything on him except training material, so its doubtful he had found out anything on his own.

The other body was of Smarty, who laid dead, another bullet in him. Searching through him, people were expecting papers, not empty bottles and cans, loose change, cups, and a large amount of food. The smell that people found on him as they searched him was the biggest indicator that he was probably just some misguided hobo that managed to find his way in here before the lockdown. Odd that he managed to get in so easily.


Ecks: Deputy, Town Aligned and Smarty McBarrelpants, Hobo, Town Aligned lie dead.

Day 4 has started, takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline for the day will be March 20th, Tuesday, at around 2:30 PM Eastern Time.

[Sifright]

Boom, responsible for murdering a mafia player.

EDIT:by which I mean a member of the mafia team

[Moogle0119]

Likewise.

Outside of Sif, I suspect the rest of the remaining players which only includes...

Geminex
Karesh
Hawk
Mr. Bookworm

I might as well roleclaim now too. I am Vengeful Townie, Town Aligned the same as Nikose(1) which is why I believed his claim back on Day 1. Also, like Nikose(1) said, he is a back-up for another role (when said role dies, he becomes the new PO, Vig, BG, etc...). My role is the very same although I don't know if Nikose(1) was a back-up for the same role as me. I would highly suggest that whoever the Vig is to pick from the list above (unless you feel like me or Sif are actually mafiates who voted off one of their own members with really no pressure from anyone else).

Any thoughts, anyone?

[Sifright]

Vote:Moogle

Because he is a mafiate, his reason for believing nikose 1 makes no sense. Boom boom

[Moogle0119]

The reason I believed Nikose(1) was because prior to him mentioning his role was a back-up to another major role, I thought I was the only one in the game that had such a role. However, after he claimed, it seemed likely that there could be a back-up role for each pro-town role. You'll also note I posted shortly after Nikose(1) revealed this and said I believed his claim.

Plus, the vote count was tied before I placed my vote on Nikose(2) yesterday. If I was a mafiate I wouldn't have killed off my teammate like that just to play a ridiculous game of WIFOM in a mafia game where barely anyone is posting.

[Ecks]

Boy I must have had someone sweating... :cool: Bullets.

/deadpost

carry on guys.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Ugh. I just don't know.
There's not enough posting or activity to get a good read on anybody so I just have no idea what the heck to do at this point.

[Sifright]

unvote:Moogle

So yea, I'm pretty lost as well the lack of posts has made this pretty terrible which i've been a big part of as well.. I really don't know who to vote for but I suggest we start killing off all the inactives because otherwise we just end up murdering who ever talks most which is a pretty terrible idea.

[Moogle0119]

Since nothing else is really coming up, I'm all for lynching any of the miller claims others have made earlier, hopefully in an attempt to catch a mafiate hiding behind that claim. Any other suggestions or candidates?

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I am distinctly for not lynching myself.

[Moogle0119]

Well I did a really brief look-over of Day 1's activities and Hawk claimed to be a Death Miller who shows up as Mafian Don. Since both mafiates that were lynched so far were Mafian Thugs, I think there may be a chance that Hawk is also hiding behind a Death Miller claim (same as Ryanderman)and is actually the real Mafian Don. Granted, there's always the chance he may be telling the truth, but right now we have nothing else to go on really.

Vote: Hawk

[Inbred Chocobo]

Day tis be'ith over'tih. All literary works consisting of discussion of the topic in said thread must cease immediately. A post who's written content describes a lynch will cometh forth with a short time frame.

[Inbred Chocobo]

((And by short time frame I means a few hours since I get distracted with work and such. Sorry about that guys.))

No one is really sure where to point fingers, but something must be done. A suggestion goes out to take out someone who reports being falsified, and while there is no rush, there are no arguements either. The codes are punched, and the laser becomes active again, and in a second, Hawk, falls to the floor dead. The papers on him are many, logs indicating communication with outside groups, multiple bank accounts, employee lists (of people not in the building sadly enough). He wasn't apart of a group, he was running the whole show.

Hawk: Mafian Don, Mafia Aligned is dead. Night starts, and will end in 2 and 1/2 days (to get it back to around midday)

[Inbred Chocobo]

Also, anyone who is town and wants to replace some inactives message me, I got a few people I need to swap out. (Everyone decided hey, lets go on trips, I had like 3 freaking people tell me they are going out of country, and I am willing to bet more did it than that).

[Inbred Chocobo]

From here on out, Geminex is being replaced by BahamutFlare2. Mr.Bookworm is being replaced by Ecks2.

The day comes back up, and two more bodies found. The three people left look at each other nervously, knowing that someone here is a killer. Looting through Karesh's stuff, it looks like there were signs of a minor conspiracy against him, false documents. Someone wanted to make him look bad, but it was pretty obvious Karesh wasn't the badguy here.

Ecks2's body wasn't that far away from him. In his hand, was a unique weapon, a pistol unlike any design seen. It was sleek, it was advanced, and someone deciding to fire the thing found it to be quiet. Really quiet. He too had a bullet in him, and it was obvious that he didn't shoot himself in the back. On him, were security details and reports. The man was apart of the security team here, and was just trying to save people by getting the bad guys first.

Karesh: Miller, Town Aligned
Mr.Bookworm aka Ecks2, Vigilante, Town Aligned are both dead, shot Night 4.

There are only 3 people left,

BahamutFlare2
Moogle0119
Sifright

And considering its just you three, no deadline set. When two of you vote for the other, then the night shall descend again, and we shall really see what happens here.

[Sifright]

eeeeeeeeeeee

[BahamutFlare]

Ok. Moogle, did you get a role yet? Did your mentor or whatever die and get a power role? I don't know the exacts of your role.

Sifright, what's your role anyway?

I know Sifright voted for Nikose2. However, he was the first to vote. Maybe he didn't think someone would vote for his friend? Or maybe one of you two is self-aligned. I can't help but think Sif is self-aligned. I don't believe Moogle is self-aligned since Nikose1 was town.

[Sifright]

My role is back up doctor i'm the town nurse, I become the doc when the he dies as I get all his special tools.

Nurse in Training, Town Aligned:

[Sifright]

Ok. Moogle, did you get a role yet? Did your mentor or whatever die and get a power role? I don't know the exacts of your role.

Sifright, what's your role anyway?

I know Sifright voted for Nikose2. However, he was the first to vote. Maybe he didn't think someone would vote for his friend? Or maybe one of you two is self-aligned. I can't help but think Sif is self-aligned. I don't believe Moogle is self-aligned since Nikose1 was town.

more importantly who/what are you because right now i'm leaning heavily towards voting for you

[BahamutFlare]

I'm another Vigilante, Town Aligned. I was the one that killed Bookworm aka Ecks2 trying to hit an unknown figuring you two weren't mafia. I claim this because if I wasn't town, I would make something up such as Doctor now that Sif has revealed.

But here's the thing. There's no Doctor, so you can't possibly be a backup nurse. Either you or Moogle is lying about their role and I believe that Moogle is town since there are duplicate roles. Everyone has a duplicate and everyone has someone that learns what they do apparently. With no Doctor, you must've used a safelist in which I believe Hawk and Ryanderman were safelist roles too. Maybe Ryanderman was an actual townie. I don't know.

Vote: Sifright

For the fact that there is no Doctor, so you're lying Mr. Unknown 5th party.

[Sifright]

Vote:Bahamutflare

You are claiming you are a second vig? I call bs. Moogle vote his ass out, both of us voted for a mafiate in nikose it's pretty obvious who is the last mafia player.

[Moogle0119]

Very busy atm so let's just go with this.

Vote:BahamutFlare

I find it hard do believe you're the new Vig when I got a PM from IC as soon as the new day started saying that I'm the new Vig.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Day 5 is over, hang on I got to put up a lynch post.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Moogle and Sifright looked at each other, and nodded both hitting commands while BahamutFlare2 yelled at them, trying his best to convince them he wasn't a threat, that he was trying to help them. They wouldn't have it, and in a brief moment, the laser drill fired up and dropped him. BahamutFlare2 dropped, spilling papers on the ground, and a gun. Moogle and Sifright looked at each other and sighed, thinking the threat was over.

They went to the console, hit the commands to unlock, and the alarm repeated "Threat detected, lockdown shall continue". Moogle looked at Sifright, who was already rummaging through BahamutFlare2's stuff. It ended up being security clearance documents, and training manuals. He was another member of the Security department, and his gun was exactly like the other one that dropped. Sifright and Moogle looked at each other. Deciding that maybe sleeping would be a better idea, and that the lockdown just needed a moment of them resting before it finished freaking out.

BahamutFlare2: Vigilante, Town Aligned, has been lynched. Night 5 is upon us.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Moogle0119 stood over Sifright's body, a gun in his hand. He had picked it up off the body of Mr.Bookworm when he had died, and decided that since he had it, he may as well use it. He went through the stuff on his body, trying to figure out what he had on him. It was all training documents on medical procedures, textbooks about medical practices, and some field training manuals for combat medics. No, it was clear that Sifright was just a Nurse in training, nothing more than that.

Moogle approached the computer, and hit the open button for the doors. The thing screeched out again, "Threats detected, lockdown continuing." Moogle checked what monitoring systems were left. It said he was the only one in the building. He hit the unlock button again, and again, "Threats detected, lockdown continuing." Moogle screamed at the console in fustration, firing three shoots into the console. The thing sparked, and then caught on fire. The intercom echoed again "Threats detected, lockdown continuing." He couldn't stand it, he had to end this. He starred at the burning console, then looked down at his gun.

Another Gunshot.

"All Threats eliminated, lockdown ended."

A swat team entered the building seconds after the lockdown had ended. They had been trying to get inside for days, but the lockdown and shut them out. Finding that everyone had died, they managed to access the security terminals, and the footage that played on the monitors, to this day and age, could never be found again. The teams that viewed the film were shocked at what they saw, people freaking out, started killing each other. When the lockdown detected that the group had started killing each other, it had registered that the Agency staff itself was a threat. If the had managed to just not kill anyone for 24 hours, both on using the laser drill and whoever was shooting the gun, the system would've reset itself, and the lockdown would've ended.

Sifright: Nurse in Training, Town Aligned was shot Night 5
Moogle0119: Vengeful Townie, Town Aligned went crazy and killed himself Day 6

And that my friends, is the end of the game. Everyone loses, congratulations, man that was entertaining. I'll be editting the first page with the true roles, feel free to comment on the game, or complain, or whatever have you.

[Aldurin]

6 days is too long for a single mafia day, gonna be the first to say it.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Yeah I let a couple days drag too long, my apologies about that. That might have stopped some people from going inactive as much as they did.

[Sifright]

................ Sigh thats it no more mafia for me. bastard games are the worst.

[Moogle0119]

Yeah this was rather disappointing, sorry IC. I hate games that are out to teach players a lesson or for them to guess what the GO is doing differently in order to win (and going against the whole spirit of mafia games in general). :(

[Nikose Tyris]

...This is actually pretty close to what I was expecting and I actually enjoyed this. :3

[Ryanderman]

Man this better not be there is no actual mafia game. Cause i'll cut a bitch.
.

[BahamutFlare]

What happened to there will be a mafia? No one was mafia. I'm with Sif and Moogle. I'd prefer to evaluate people rather than figure out the GM's obscure plan.

[Geminex]

Okay, I was gonna apologize for never being around enough to do anything except for submitting night actions.

But considering how this ended, it seems that the only winning move..
was not to play.

[Inbred Chocobo]

What happened to there will be a mafia? No one was mafia. I'm with Sif and Moogle. I'd prefer to evaluate people rather than figure out the GM's obscure plan.

I said I would lie. I never said about what. Also notice I never said how town wins, just that you win when they win.


I will say the most annoying part about this was that I gave Aldurin a chance to ask one question that I would answer truthfully. When Smarty joined in, I gave his character a way to ask that question if Aldurin died (which happened, and I sent him the request for a question), but then Smarty never asked for it in a night and day that he was alive for that, and then died off.

What was the main purpose of running a no-mafia game? Two reasons. One, I hate the miller role, and what it does, and I don't think it should be in a mafia game. So I put a game in heavy emphasis on not trusting anything that comes up, with so many miller claims that you couldn't trust what exactly came up. (I honestly thought day one when so many claimed miller, it would've been obvious what was going on, but oh well).

Two, what exactly happens when you read people and you come up with nothing in regular mafia games? People go for stupid things, and make mistakes. A game that there is no mafia, and that there is nothing to read, it was all bad mistakes that people were reading. Everyone's well thought out plan, everyone's ideas on theory of how to find mafia and how not to? It wasn't going to work, and I wanted to see how people handled that. I wanted people to think exactly what do they do when they get no leads. Basically, I wanted to make sure people knew that not matter what you think, no matter what you plan, you can always still be wrong, oh so wrong. Was that accomplished here? Eh, I'm not sure the message got through, but I don't think just writing up a paragraph and stating you people need to think up better ways to analyze for scum than the tried and true methods would've worked either, so I came up with this bizarre plan.

I seriously doubt though that there will be another no mafia game in the near future at all though, so those that didn't like this game, or thought it was a bad idea, I urge you to play in another, and you should find that you will still have a taste for regular mafia. For those that did enjoy the game, thank you for your time.

[Fenris]

Hahaha, so that explains why I wasn't getting any scum-tells the first couple of days.

[Aldurin]

................ Sigh thats it no more mafia for me. bastard games are the worst.

That's understandable, bastard games are only really fun for the person running them.

Heh, the question I asked was which Miller claims were true. In retrospect, it would have been nice to ask how many mafia factions there were. I just hate getting an info role and being unable to go anywhere with it when I get something useful.

Also, for those that haven't noticed yet, signups for my game are open. I'm going to be trying to run a more vanilla setup of mafia so that you don't have to worry about unexpected twists with ambiguous fairness.

[Moogle0119]

See bolded parts below...

Here is the back story of this mafia game.

Everyone here is a member of a Secret Agent service, all in a military grade defense fortress in an undisclosed location. An alarm goes off, warning the building has been intruded by enemy forces. Protocols dictate that everyone should gather in the designated area, and as everyone gathers around, people check motion sensors and cameras to confirm that no one outside of this room is in the building. The lockdown is still in effect, and soon everyone realizes that there are someone, or a group, that doesn't belong in here, and need to be removed.

There is a Mafia
There may or may not be a Cult
There may or may not be a Serial Killer
There may or may not be a 5th Unknown Party

A warning about this game: There will be roles that manipulate what I post, so just to put it up front, I will lie in this game. That is all. Simply post, and after a yet determined amount of time, I will close sign-ups and get this party started.

EDIT: A Few rules I wanted to put out for people.

1: Unless your role says otherwise, do not discuss this game while in progress with people alive. Dead players may consult with each other, but a dead player is not allowed to consult with an alive player, nor are alive players allowed to consult with each other. (Because of this rule, dead players, no matter who they are, will not be allowed to re-enter the game taking over someone else's role if that person went inactive)

2: This is how Lynches will work. The day ends and the results of the lynch will be announced once one of two conditions are meet. First condition is majority the current players have voted on someone. If this total is reached, then someone unvotes dropping majority before I declare the day is over, then the unvote will count and the day shall continue. Second condition is that once a time period runs out (It will be open at first, and I'll start a 48 hour deadline when I feel things slow down) then the highest total of votes on one player will be the deciding factor.. If there is a tie, we will enter Tie-breaker mode. In this mode, there will be a brief 24 hour period. At the end of that period, the totals are re-tallied. If it is still tied after that, then the day ends in no-lynch and moves to night. During that 24-hour period, people can vote, unvote, and change vote as many times as they wish, the totals will not be re-calculated until I post again. If I have said the deadline is 48 hours from now, and we are at the 50 hour mark and I haven't posted and you then vote or unvote there, then it will still count. No posts before my day ending post will not be ignored.

3: You most post at least once per day (in game). At the end of the night, everyone that didn't post will get a warning. At the end of the next night, every person that got a warning the previous night will be killed that night, unless the person contests via pm that they will post. If they fail to do so and a third night hits, they will be killed the third night, no arguments asked.

4. For a Vote to count, please have it bolded on at the beginning of a line (you may have text after it on the line.)

Vote: Guy Because he is a jerk (<--- I will count this vote)

Because he is a jerk Vote: Guy (<--- I will not count this vote)

The List
1.) Geminex
2.) Ryanderman
3.) Karesh
4.) Moogle0119
5.) Hawk
6.) Fenilicious
7.) Mr. Bookworm
8.) Sifright
9.) Aldurin
10.) Nikose Tyris
11.) Lawful Neutral
12.) BahamutFlare
13.) greed
14.)

You said that there would be roles that manipulate what you post IC and that you will lie in the game, but I think it was incredibly misleading for you to lie in the sign-up thread about information of the game (since there was no mafia as you claimed there was).

[Ryanderman]

There will be roles that manipulate what I post, so just to put it up front, I will lie in this game.

Additionally, you very clearly linked your sole reason for lying in the game to the fact that there are roles that will manipulate what you post. The roles manipulated your deathposts, not the signup thread. We were given no reason to take the signup thread at anything other than face value.

Any lesson you might have wished to teach was completely obfuscated by the fact that any suspicion that there may not be a mafia was immediately set aside, as you outright told us there was a mafia.

[BahamutFlare]

And who creates a nurse in training where there's no doctor? A role that specifically doesn't function at all, but has power capability. I guess tricks the player into thinking he can have power, but never actually get it.

[Ecks]

Was there even a PO? I was the Deputy, Town Aligned as Fenris/Ecks1 and never noticed a PO in death lists. Because if there were an actual PO he would've found out real quick there were no actual Mafia.

Also since the game's over now I'd like to point out I was essentially given Bookie's Vig role specifically to die as Ecks2. I thought dying twice in my first mafia game would be a hilarious achievement.

[Moogle0119]

I have to second everything Ryanderman just brought up as well. Not to mention seeing this on the first post...

Winners: No One, Everyone lost. Good job guys.

Really seems like you didn't care about anyone having fun and the whole point of the game was really just to troll us.

[Inbred Chocobo]

First, for those that got Nurse or Deputy in a game where there wasn't a Doctor of Police Officer, I mainly did that because I believe that people that get a role that states they are Vanilla Townie are the ones that are most likely to go inactive, as they have no ties to the game and feel left out. I never planned for this game to have them in the first place, and I thought that would be a good twist to keep people a little more invested into the game without actually giving them powers.

Two, for those that didn't enjoy this game, lets take a moment to talk here. One, the game was stated to be a Bastard game. Also, alternate interpretation of the line that was quoted from my opening post, Deathmillers are roles that make people think there are a mafia, therefore I have to post as if they are mafia, no matter where I am posting. Seriously, what would have the response to this game been if I said There may be a Mafia? This was a game to get people to realize that well, you could be wrong, about everything. This needed to have the appearance of a regular game. Hell Smarty called it day one, but no one responded to the idea.

I stated that I would lie, I probably should've seperated that line onto its own rather than with the role manipulation bit, but it still stood. I apologize for that confusion

EDIT: I've said all that I am going to about this matter, any more discussion on this topic is going to lead to bad feelings so I ask that discussion of how the game was ran to end. For those that disliked this game, I am willing to bet money this will be the only one of its kind for a long time on this board, so sign-up for the next one to get a taste of regular mafia, so you can get this one out. I honestly thought you people would pick it up rather quickly, and this game wouldn't make it past day 2, however I was apparently wrong, and a lot of people are sore because of that, so yeah, I am sorry you guys didn't enjoy it.

[Moogle0119]

I'll stop harping on about this, but I do have one question.

One, the game was stated to be a Bastard game.

Where was this stated?

From the Mafia Game List thread...

I would like to sign-up to run a mafia game. Title is "The Spy Among Us" Mafia.

And nothing from your game's sign-up thread indicates that it will be a "bastard" mafia (just that there are roles that manipulate what you post and highly suggesting that those roles are the reasons you will lie in game). If I've missed a post stating that this would be a bastard game somewhere where all players would be privy to such knowledge before the game started than I sincerely apologize but I couldn't find anything from you stating such.

I feel like I've been invited to participate in a fun sporting event with other friends, only to arrive and find us all being lectured on the dangers and risks of bodily harm/injury of playing in such a violent sport and how we should re-examine our ways of thinking. Ok, it's not the best analogy in the world but I think you get what I'm trying to say. I understand (now that the game is over) the message that you were trying to provide us, but by not even stating that this was a bastard game to begin, everyone is under the impression that we're playing a normal-ish mafia game minus the line about you lying. Finding out in the end the game's main goal was to provide us a message instead is why this game has left a bad taste in our mouths.

Again, not trying to stir up trouble or hurt anyone's feelings but I'm just trying to let you know where I'm at least coming from in my criticisms of how things were handled. Also, had I known this was a bastard mafia game from the start I probably wouldn't have been as let down either.

[Sifright]

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Two, for those that didn't enjoy this game, lets take a moment to talk here. One, the game was stated to be a Bastard gam


no it wasn't no where does it state it would be a bastard game. I had no intention to play a bastard game either. not that it matters any way because my participation in the game was basically minimal. Day 1 being as long as it did completely killed interest for me.

[Ecks]

................ Sigh thats it no more mafia for me. bastard games are the worst.

You said it was a bastard game sif.

He said "This game was stated to be a bastard game."

You were the one who stated it as such.

At least I think that's what he meant when he said it. Anyway, go back to your lives citizens, show's over.

[BahamutFlare]

You said you would lie in the game. The signups is not the game. You could easily have excluded the mafia part in the game and everything would be fine. I bet most of us would've assumed there was a mafia and the same effect could have been made. There wasn't really any lying in game either except the deathmillers. The biggest lies was the sign up thread.

I agree with moogle. It's like we played a game only to be an unwilling participant of a PSA. Yes most hate millers, but to each their own if they want millers.

[Sifright]

You said it was a bastard game sif.

He said "This game was stated to be a bastard game."

You were the one who stated it as such.

At least I think that's what he meant when he said it. Anyway, go back to your lives citizens, show's over.

He was pretty clearly trying to imply that it was stated as a bastard game before the game started in the sign up.

[Ecks]

See that's what I thought too, but I couldn't see where he might have made a statement that insinuated as much. Anyway IC's given his last word on this, let's just drop it.

[Fenris]

I think the part where he admitted up front to lying as a GM equates to stating it as a bastard game.

Also, for my two cents, holy hell you guys are being bitchy. It's just a game, chill the fuck out.

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